The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Badass Habits: Cultivate the Awareness, Boundaries, and Daily Upgrades You Need to Make Them Stick by Jen Sincero

Episode Date: December 4, 2020

Badass Habits: Cultivate the Awareness, Boundaries, and Daily Upgrades You Need to Make Them Stick by Jen Sincero New York Times bestselling author Jen Sincero gets to the core of transformation: habits--breaking, making, understanding, and sticking with them like you've never stuck before. Badass Habits is a eureka-sparking, easy-to-digest look at how our habits make us who we are, from the measly moments that happen in private to the resolutions we loudly broadcast (and, erm, often don't keep) on social media. Habit busting and building goes way beyond becoming a dedicated flosser or never showing up late again--our habits reveal our unmet desires, the gaps in our boundaries, our level of self-awareness, and our unconscious beliefs and fears. Badass Habits features Jen's trademark hilarious voice and offers a much-needed fresh take on the conventional wisdom and science that shape the optimism (or pessimism?) around the age-old topic of habits. The book includes enlightening interviews with people who've successfully strengthened their discipline backbones, new perspective on how to train our brains to become our best selves, and offers a simple, 21 day, step-by-step guide for ditching habits that don't serve us and developing the habits we deem most important. Habits shouldn't be impossible to reset--and with healthy boundaries, knowledge of--and permission to go after--our desires, and an easy to implement plan of action, we can make any new goal a joyful habit. About Jen Sincero Jen Sincero is a #1 New York Times bestselling author, success coach and motivational cattle prod who's helped countless people transform their personal and professional lives via her products, speaking engagements, newsletters, seminars and books. Her #1 New York Times bestseller, You Are a Badass: How to Stop Doubting Your Greatness and Start Living an Awesome Life (2013), has sold over three million copies, is available in thirty-plus languages, and has been on the NY Times bestseller list for over 4 years. Her follow-up, You Are a Badass at Making Money: Master the Mindset of Wealth (2017), also a New York Times bestseller, is written with the same inimitable sass, down-to-earth humor and blunt practicality that made You Are a Badass an indomitable bestseller and Jen a celebrated voice in the world of self development. Based on her own transformation, from a frustrated forty year-old living in a converted garage watching tumbleweeds blow through her empty bank account, to a successful business owner traveling the world in style, You Are a Badass at Making Money is a testament to the fact that, in Jen's words: "If my broke ass can get rich, you can too." As a highly sought-after speaker, Jen has shared her signature brand of motivational comedy with everyone from women entrepreneurs to multi national corporations to non-profits to educational institutions to her mom's book group. In 2011 she sold most of her possessions and spent the next three years running her business from all corners of the globe, writing, speaking, coaching and encouraging people to live lives of unbridled awesomeness. Jen and her work have appeared in a variety of media outlets including the New York Times, The Dr. Oz Show, Oprah Magazine, Success Magazine/Radio, Money Magazine, Comedy Central, Forbes, Fast Company, Bloomberg, Interview, Cosmo and The Howard Stern Show. Her other books include the semi-autobiographical novel, Don't Sleep With Your Drummer (2002) and The Straight Girl's Guide to Sleeping With Chicks (2005).

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain now here's your host chris voss hi folks this is voss here from the chris voss show.com the chris voss show.com hey we're coming to another super great podcast because that's all we deliver around here the super great podcast why do you listen because you're just like you know what i listen to chris faust show because it's just super great

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Check out their new incredible lineup of DACs and audio enhancement devices at ifi-audio.com. Jen Sincero, she is a best-selling author, success coach, and motivational speaker who spent more than a decade traveling the world helping people transform their lives and their bank accounts via her public experiences, coaching products, and books, including the number one New York Times bestseller, You Are a Badass, How to Stop Doubtingting your greatness and start living an awesome life. And she is here with her newest book, Badass Habits. Cultivate the awareness, boundaries, and daily upgrades you need to make them stick. Welcome to the show. How are you, Jen? I am good. How are you? Awesome, Sauce. Give us your plugs so people can go look at your amazing content online my website is www just kidding jenisonchero.com j-e-n-s-i-n-c-e-r-o.com or you can go to you are a badass.com and they will take you to the same place.

That is awesome. Jen, check her out. She's got a prolific badass series that she has online. And you know what, Jen, I think you win the award for being the first guest that we've had out of like,

what are we at? Like almost 700 episodes. Who's ever played off of the improv at the front. So I don't know. There should be like an award. We'll have to work on one when we do our annuals or something. So I don't know, there should be like an award. We'll have to work on one when we do our annuals or something. So I mean, seriously, like I always make some crap up to, to kind of, you know, make it fun, but you, you, you're the first person to play off that.

So a word to you. We'll see if we can dig something up to mail to you. So give us a, what motivated you want to write this book before we get into it? How'd you write the habits book? Yes. Well, I've written, uh, you are a badass. You are a badass at making money. You are a badass every day. And all of those were sort of dealing with getting your emotional and thoughts and beliefs and all that kind of stuff in check so that you can start living an awesome life and habits. If you, you know, if you don't have good habits, but you've got all these thought processes sort of locked down, you're not going to get very far. So it

was kind of the next obvious step to take in the series of, of stuff that I was writing about. And so, uh, I guess a side question I'll throw in here. So a good successful life usually probably requires good habits. Exactly. Yeah. And it just puts everything on autopilot that I've been talking about for years. So I was super psyched to write this because I think it's a really, really important step in the self-betterment department. So. And there you go. I've never, you know, come to think of it, I've never met a lot of people who have really bad habits, like stuff that ends up in prison, things like that, that have a very successful life. So clearly there is a, there is a connection

there. Uh, so give us an overview of this latest book that you have out, Badass Habits. Well, I, you know, there's no lack of awesome habit books out in the world right now, but I wanted to write rather that was going to tell you how to change your habits and set up good boundaries and give you all these tips, but also have you do it while you're reading the book. Because I'm a coach, and I like people to get their poop in a scoop while I'm helping them. So that was the one thing that I sort of felt was missing in a lot of the habit stuff that I was seeing was,

you know, a lot of them gave some great, great information, but it was like, you know, you read it and then you put the book away and do you actually change anything? I don't know. So in the second half of my book is a 21 day course of sorts that you implement all this stuff

from the first half of the book, but you get little, it's like a drip system. You get little bits of information on day one, day two, day three. And by the end of the book, hopefully you've got, you know, a real leg up on this habit that you're trying to do. And I love that you have that in the book because one of the problems people have is, you know, we, that, that, that new year's syndrome, resolution syndrome, where we all go, I'm going to change everything. And like day two, you wake up in a puddle of whatever

and whatever you've been drinking. And you're like, that didn't work out at all. Yeah. I hate that puddle. I don't ever want to wake up in that puddle again. I used to, you know, I used to do that on New Year's where I'd be like, I'm going to not drink anymore. But you're like, this is my last champagne.

You wake up the next morning with a hangover. And you're like, this is a bad omen for the rest of this year. Well, I think that's the problem when you make that kind of declaration that it gives you free license to do it like you've never done it before. And then if you keep not quitting, you actually make it worse because you keep celebrating the night before you allegedly are going to quit. And then it just you've created a bigger problem than you had in the first place by not trying to quit. Yeah. Or like people that do that. I've met a lot of people that do that. And I might've been guilty of it from time to time. Like, you're like, I'm going to go on a diet. As soon as I finish half this cheesecake, like the whole cake pie, and then you're like, whatever,

whatever. So give us an idea of some of the content of, of your book and some of the, some of the advice that you give to readers. Well, one of the things that I really focus on in the book is if you want to change your habits, you've got to change your identity. And I think because, you know, most and it is important to change what you're actually doing, the actions you're taking. But if you don't identify as the kind of person who already embodies this habit, you're making it a hell of a lot harder for yourself. So, for example, if you want to quit smoking, let's say you've smoked your whole life and you're a smoker. Right. When you go to quit, you're basically coming from a place of a smoker who's trying to quit. But if instead you decide, you know what, I am a healthy person who loves my body, who takes great care of my body, who has pink, sprightly young lungs. You know, if you come at it from that perspective, what it does is it knocks out the opportunity for what I call the negotiation process, which is, you know, you go out one night, you get real boozy and you're like, I'm just going to have one cigarette. Like it's not going to kill anything. Like it's one stupid

cigarette. If you're a smoker, who's trying to quit that negotiation makes sense. If you're somebody who's healthy and takes great care of your body and has pink Spritely lungs, that conversation doesn't even enter your mind because it has nothing to do with who you are. It's like, it's like waking up every morning and negotiating whether you're going to drink a bottle of vodka. Like if that's not who you are, that doesn't even happen. So embodying, you know, setting out some specifics of what a person who is healthy and who takes great care of their body, how do they walk? Who do they hang out with? What do they think about? What do they talk about? Where do they place their focus? What do they do when somebody who's smoking a cigarette walks by? You know, who is that person? You start getting the specifics

clear in your mind and you start doing those things to make it a lot easier to make the habit happen. And I saw some of this in some of your interviews, you're talking about identity and some of the importance of it and a lot of different things um so does it need to be like a virtual sort of uh mafia witness protection program where you've got to like basically just get yourself out of your your your whole identity and image of yourself and you've got to just become a new person i mean i'm thinking about doing that with i love the witness witness protection is a great way to put it. If you need to. You know, as best as you can, it's kind of like fake. It is faking it till you make it, you know, we,

but the thing is our identities are all made up by us in the first place anyway. So why the hell not make up a new one that actually benefits you? That's very empowering. What? That's very empowering that you say that. Cause I, I didn't really ever make that distinction that we're in control of making our own identity. So Hey, stupid, make another one. Right. It's really funny. It's like when you start looking at all this stuff and breaking it down and you know, that's why they say awareness is the first step in self-transformation because once you become aware of all the crap that you've been buying into, you can change it. You know, it's, it's, we make it, we make a lot of drama out of stuff. I'm not saying that it's overnight. And the second you're aware of it, you have now conquered all your issues, but

it's also not as hard as we're pretending it is. It definitely is. And some of the different ways that I've transformed in my life, it's usually becoming aware of it. And then kind of getting a little deep in it where I understand, you know, why do I think this way? And what led me down those pathways? But I love what you talk about with identity. And then one of the other things I heard you talk about was was how sometimes that's hard for people around us like uh you know people don't want us to change sometimes those are those are really deep in relationships that we might have for marriages and whatever your relationships are um and and people have a hard time when we say hey i'm going to change this and they're like

wait you're changing who you are and your identity. And this is the person I felt. And sometimes they feel challenged by that. Yeah. It's a super common problem. It's probably the most common question I get asked at all my talks. Like, what do you do when the people around you don't support you? And you're right. Like it, it threatens them and it challenges them. And you're basically killing off the identity of somebody that they know and love. And people tend to get pretty grouchy when you kill the people they love. So you're, you're not only changing, you know, changing that relationship that they're comfortable with, but you're also showing them because we tend to hang out, you know, when you hang out with people or when you've got people

in your life, it's a very comfortable, familiar zone that you're in and you're making everything very uncomfortable and unfamiliar for them. And you're also showing them, you know, Hey, you know, I'm, I'm going to lose 30 pounds or I'm going to get married or I'm going to make a lot of money, or I'm going to start my own business. And basically by saying that you're saying to them, not out loud, but you're saying, if I can do it, you can do it because we're sort of same Z's we hang out, we do the same things. And if I'm going to transform myself this way, it means you can too. And a lot of times people get really, it's kind of like giving them unsolicited advice. So that's why they get really, you know, worried for you and tell you all the

reasons it's not going to work and make fun of you and stuff like that because they're they're not psyched and you're also challenging their concept of what is true and real so if life is this certain way and they believe that you can and can't do these things and that my friends are this certain way and you change that people get really really freaky about that And I like how you say that where people really are attached to that identity. Like I've had times where I've been in relationships where I just got sick of me. Like I got sick of putting on weight, feeling unhealthy. And so I started working out and, and, and it had nothing to do with, uh, I'm going, you know, I want to get in shape so I can leave you sort of mentality. But I've had girlfriends that are like wait are you what you're working out now and yeah you're just and i'm just like yeah i'm a miserable i'm a horrible person especially in a relationship because i'm miserable

so i'm gonna try and be healthy so that you know maybe we'll have a future together because you know i won't die tomorrow of everything i'm doing and it's interesting how people sabotage you, like, talk about to continue in that thing. They'll be like, Oh, he's gone on a diet. I'm gonna feed him fat, fattier foods and, and, you know, bring sweets home more. And, and, and it doesn't have to be someone you're in a close relationship with. There's, there's a lot of people that I know, sometimes my friends, I mean, I had this problem in 2015 where I was like, wait, half my friends are, uh, you know, have some issues. Um, and, and so, uh, you know, a lot of that comes around our identity. I mean, even, even like with my social media, there's a social media identity where it goes against it. I, you get kicked to

the curb because I'm just like, I'm not hanging out with those people. So, you know, it's really interesting. Should people sit down and do a inventory of their identity and go, what are my identities with my children, my significant other, my friends and different things like that? Yeah, absolutely. Because it's all about specifics. And it's when we, we, you know, lots of times we want to change and we want to make more money and we want to get healthier, but we don't get into the specifics of how much money we want to make, how, how we, how much weight we want to lose, what specific foods we want to eat, what we don't want to eat. And if you don't get specific, you make it really hard on yourself, right? It's really hard to accomplish a vague goal, but if you get into specifics, you know what you're doing, you know? So, and, and so it can, and same thing with identity,

like sitting down and just getting into a couple specifics of like, how does a successful person who's got the income I want to have, how do they speak about money? What do they do? What do they drive? Who do they hang out with? How do they hold themselves? It's like, what are they reading? Getting specific about it really helps you make the change you want to make. Yeah. That's why I like hanging out with authors and having them on the shows because they're really smart. They put hundreds of hours in the research of what they've done. and so they can come on my show in an hour i'm just uh as smart as they are or not really uh no i love i love i never have really thought about this in in in all 53 years never sat down and thought about doing an inventory of my identity so what they are and

and stuff like that i mean i have the different passports and IDs that I found, but, uh, you know, and I'm still, you know, I can't talk about what I did in New York in my early life, but, uh, according to the FBI and, um, killing off, uh, identities of people, uh, who love me, um, the judge says I can't do that anymore. So there's that. Uh, but but no this seems like a really brilliant thing i like how this you've you've given me a an epiphany if you will excellent so we go for around here yeah epiphany there you go so um so so this is a great way people can get into that you know uh we had uh the one Obesity Code author on. I forget his name off the top of my head.

I hope he forgives me. We've had him on for about three of his books. He talks a lot about fasting and losing weight. One of the things that he mentioned was don't tell people you're changing because they'll sabotage you. What's your opinion on that? I agree with him. If it's somebody you know who's not going to support you. What's your opinion on that? I agree with him. If it's somebody, you know, who's not going to support you. I mean, I got plenty of friends who do a cartwheel every time, you know, buy me a cake and, you know, whatever, whenever I do something great. And so those are

the people that I share my successes with my ideas with, you know, and then the people who, you know, heap all their worry and make fun of me or, you know, and then the people who, you know, heap all their worry and make fun of me or, you know, try and tear me down. I just don't tell them about stuff. And sometimes I need to remove them from my life. You know, I've definitely lost some people along the way, but you can't, you can't please everybody. And I sure as hell, I'm not going to shrink down and not do the stuff that I'm really excited about doing on my one and only shot on planet earth, just so you don't freak out on me. So, you know, come along for the ride. And then, and then it makes more room for meeting new people who are, you know, inspiring to you and, you know, lifting you up and stuff.

You, you, you know, you, here's some more epiphanies I'm getting from you. You know, maybe you need to do, here's some more epiphanies I'm getting from you. You know, maybe you need to do an inventory of your friends and say, who is really uplifting me? Who's taking me new places? I mean, life is a, is a, is a journey of reinvention and learning. And, and, and it's so amazing some of the different roads we, or ways that we reinvent ourselves. But maybe we do need to take more stock of our friends especially when we're invoking the change that you talk about in your book where we do an inventory of who are the people around us who surrounds us and are they supporting us and and going so far you know i with my relationships i was always looked at people and i'm like grow

and be who you are but there are times where i've been like whoa whoa whoa where are you going with this and sometimes i'm resistant to it, but I eventually go down the road with them and realize that maybe I should be on that journey too with them. But there are some people that they definitely hold us down because we can't cause I, the epiphany is I realized that not only do we have our own identities in our head, but these people have an identities and these will compete.

Yeah. And I wrote a whole thing in Badass Habits about how we love to be right, how it's so interesting that we would so much rather be right than happy. And I talk about this in all my books, but this one, I go much deeper into it because the need to be right. So you and a lot of this happens so unconsciously, we don't even realize we're doing it. But so think about it like, you know, let's say that you've, you know, tried to stop drinking forever and you just keep going back, whatever. And so you sort of decided that it's really hard for me to quit drinking. That's your thing. Right. So anybody who suggests like, well, why don't you give a try? You know what? I've tried for 30 years, quit drinking, nothing works. We will defend even the crap that makes us so unhappy just because we need to be right. Because we need to know that there's that familiarity again. It's so interesting how terrified humans are of change

and the unknown because that's consistent all the time. But we cling to this rightness because it makes us feel safe. And we, and we'll cling, you know, that's why people stay in relationships like abusive relationships and jobs they hate and, and all this stuff, just cause it's familiar. And it's quote unquote, this, this safety comfort zone when it's just, you know, not. Sometimes there's some of that laziness where we're just like, Oh, change.

Oh, it sounds like a whole big job thing. Like it's going to be a pain in the butt to do it. I'm too lazy. Absolutely. But you know what? The thing is, is you don't even realize how much energy it takes to stay in a life that is

so lame. Right? Like, yeah. I mean, you've got to work hard sometimes. Certainly you have to do stuff that scares the crap out of you. Definitely. But it's exciting to like, I mean, believe me, I am a great like world-class napper. I like lying around, you know, I get my lazy on like

nobody's business, but I also really love kicking ass. And I love doing the thing, you know, I love being alive and having adventures and doing stuff that scares me and challenging myself and growing. And I think there's a balance for everybody. You don't have to be doing that all the time. I mean, how exhausting is that?

But I also, after a while, you know, the couch, you get bed sores, right? So it's both. The older I i get the more those naps man or everything i tease my old man me and my brother would be like you're dead you're silly you're always sleeping and stuff and he's probably now i realize he was trying to get away from us but uh so what are some uh what are some good steps people can take that you advise in your book? Maybe some just, we don't want to give people the whole book, maybe a couple of good first steps they can take and utilize. Well, I think the first step is always awareness. So

once you sort of figure if there's some habit there, so, you know, and I always think always starting from where, what do you complain about the most you know that would be a good place to start something be aware of what you complain awareness about most yeah yeah come aware what you complain about the most i mean you know my big transformation was around money i complained about having no money for like 40 straight years so i started with that uh and so become aware of what you complain about most and then become aware of what your beliefs, thoughts and words are around that evil and gross people are the ones who make lots of it. You know, I wouldn't know what the hell to do with money if I had any anyway. And then you start looking at all of these things that you've been saying and believing. And literally, the more you say and believe and think things, it creates like a rut, like on an LP record.

Do you remember those? And so the longer it digs a hole, the deeper it digs in and the more grounded it becomes in your identity, right? And that's why we believe this stuff to be the quote unquote truth. So when you decide to change your way of being, you have to come up with new thoughts,

beliefs and words and actions and put those on repeat and repeat and repeat, which is why one of the first things I have in the book is to rewrite your mantra around whatever this habit is. So back in the day, my mantra was, I can't afford it. I said it a hundred thousand times a day. And the first, the first day of the 21 days is the longest explanation. I mean, I made each day really short, by the way, too. I'm super impatient and I really just like to give people what the hell they need to know instead of going on and on. So every day is really short so that you can spend the time working on your habit.

But the first day, the mantra day is a little long because it's a pretty important process. And the important thing about it is you've got to make sure that the words that you come up with are really emotionally charged and exciting to you. So I went from, I can't afford it to money flows to me easily and freely. So again, it's about the emotion. You do not have to believe it at first because money sure as hell was not flowing to me easily and freely when I wrote that. But one of the things that was so painful for me about being broke was feeling stuck and feeling like it was hard and feeling like I sucked at it. So having money flow to me easily and freely just released all that and changed my energy

around it. It is interesting how we build these belief systems, almost like little teeny religions where we have all these reasonings behind it. When I got serious about losing weight, I took and started going through the awareness process. I was really sick of everything. And I'm like, I'm just going to change. I don't know what I'm going to do, but I'm just sick of it. And, and so I started looking into awareness and thinking about how I process things. And a lot, a lot of it went back to childhood. You know, a lot of people have that, like what you say about

money, they have that reasoning, you know, they were with their mom, their mom was strapped or sometimes mom just doesn't want to buy you the Reese's Pieces peanut butter cereal that she knows you're going to be bouncing off the walls at home for. And so she just, you know, uses the excuse, well, we don't have enough money. And you're like, oh, okay. It's like that. It's like that shutdown thing that mom gives you sometimes. And so a lot of people grow up with that thinking, okay, well, we don't have money. You know, well-meaning parents who go eat everything on your plate, well-meaning parents who go, who say, here's a reward, here's a popsicle because you were good at the store.

I mean, for years I would go to the store and I'd be like, ah, I said, check out, I'm going to get that big ass Coke and the big ass Snickers bar. And it's not good for me, but it's a reward. It's all our parents me, but it's a reward. It's all for sure. I got thinking about that and talking to some of my online people that I was going through this with and, and I'm like a reward. How's the reward of, you know,

shoving a giant sticks of sugar in your face. Like that's not helping. And so I love what you what you described there where you you you get an awareness of what you're doing and you look at the belief systems you have behind them uh what was interesting to me about one of the uh things that you mentioned was it's interesting how we demonize people that that that either maybe or what we want to attain, whether it's being more rich. Oh, well, rich people are jerks. Or people who work out are jerks. Look at those losers always in the gym and get a life or something.

Whatever your belief system that you built around that is. Yeah, isn't it interesting? And we don't even consider it we just take it as truth so that's why awareness is so powerful because you're like you know what i actually don't believe that that's something my mother told me over and over and over or that my father did every day you know we just sort of like so it's once you get knocked out of that sort of stupor that you're in and make choices about what you're going to believe that you empower yourself. It's pretty cool stuff. And again, like I just remember when

I was starting out this process of, you know, getting into self-helpery and all this stuff, I kept reading over and over about awareness and it's all about your beliefs, thoughts, and words. And I was like, come on, man. There's no way. There's got to be like, I'm going to change my beliefs, thoughts, and words and then those unicorns are going to appear. You know, I was like, I cannot have been living in a garage

at the age of 40 just being such a loser about money all this time and all I need to do is change my beliefs, thoughts, and words and lo and behold. But you know, you get to a point where you're so desperate you'll even do that. I'll change my beliefs, God damn it. Well, it's good.

You know, it's interesting to me. I grew up with my father. I remember that was one of the first times I think I grew up with my father. Don't most people? Well, some people don't grow up with their father. But I remember growing up with my father, and we grew up in Beverly Hills. And my parents, they rented – well, they didn't rent apartments. They managed the apartments in Beverly Hills.

And it was on the edge of Beverly Hills, about two blocks off of the Mann Theater. Well, it used to be the Mann Theater. It's a co-op theater, I think, now. I think they filed bankruptcy. But we lived down the block from the the guy who ran the prices right and we used to walk the dog with him and so me going through my whole experience of life was seeing bentley's bmws and expensive cars on every corner i mean i just thought it was normal but my father drove vw buses and i used to say to him i used to say look at that nice car over there dad and he goes the bank owns it they don't really own that car they're just front it's just the bank owns it

and i would take that as fact and i would be like oh oh okay well i don't know why he's doing that my dad never makes that clear but i guess that's why we're better than them. I don't know. My dad, you're like five. You just believe it. And then he owned like three one time. My dad was a real hoarder. So he had like three of these shitty beat-up VWs. And this is back when they were kind of new in the 60s. And all the beatniks were driving them.

Those ones were cool back in the 60s. They kind of were cool. We had the camper one, so we'd go down to the SoCo Beach, and my mom loved it to take us and get us out of her hair at the beach. But I would always ask him. I would see these nice cars, and I'd be like, why? And so after this went on for, I don't know, a year or two or something, one day I asked him, I go, well, does the bank go in your car dad pw and he goes he was yeah but it's not the same thing and i go well

i don't you know i'm just trying to understand like why isn't the same thing just it's different that was that was where my dad was but that's when i started realizing you know these belief systems that people have and how it locks them in. And, you know, of course, later, as I got a little bit older, I'm like, well, the bank owns every car. So why do those guys own those BMWs and Mercedes? And my dad likes his little VWs, even though the bank owns them every time. So, you know, people need to look at these belief systems. And you meet so many people

that they'll talk about change and you probably had this in your coaching where they're like, I want to change. I don't want to lose weight or I want to get more money and blah, blah, blah. I want to do this. And you're like, well, let's do that. And they're like, yeah, but people like they do this and they, I don't know if I want to become that. And I guess you really have to make those conscious choices is how much important is writing stuff down of what you're advising in the book and changing your life and putting it on paper, make a commitment to it. I think it's really important for some people. I, you know, it really depends what it is and who you are. But I think it's a really helpful tool because a lot of times what happens when you're journaling, if you, you know, I have this exercise where you write a letter to money and you are a badass at making money

because a lot of times, you know, most people are like, if I said, Hey, I'm just going to give you $10,000, you'd be like, so weird. You wouldn't, you know, that'd be great. However, subconsciously you may believe that rich people are scumbags that uh if you make a lot of money you won't be able to keep it like you'll have you'll think like i'll take all the money you'll give me but you also have a lot of negative beliefs around money so when you write this letter and you really go free form and you really make yourself just keep going um the nice thing about writing is in the moment you're writing it down. And then when you read it back, you're like, holy crap, I didn't even know

I felt that way. So I think, you know, as opposed to just thinking things through thoughts can get lost and, you know, belief systems are so strong that you may not even notice them. But when it's written down on the page and staring back at you, it can be a really powerful tool. How important, let me, let me ask you this because like one of my journeys, I grew up poor, obviously my dad liked VWs. We were in Beverly Hills because he managed the apartments. But how important is it to try and balance the other aspects of your life at the same time or at once? I grew up poor. I thought becoming rich and getting all those BMWs and Rolls Royces that I'd seen all my life was important.

I became CEO, built my first companies at 18, got what some people would call rich and successful, I suppose. And I still was unhappy, and I was really messed up and broken inside from a lot of different things. Probably, you know, like everyone else going back from childhood. How important is it to try and raise all boats at the same time or trying to make sure there's a balance there? Because certainly if you set, I don't know, maybe if you set goals thinking, well, this is going to make me happy and you get there and you're not happy, maybe you should be raising that boat as well along with it. I don't know. It's a great question.

I think, you know, they always say, you know, everything, money, blah, blah, blah. And I think it's all connected anyway. So, you know, you starting this company and getting rich and doing all this stuff and you're still broken inside, you still be broken if you were broke and drinking beer for breakfast you know like it's something wrong with beer for breakfast well not really i mean note to self jen says beer is bad for breakfast especially in covid era we're all doing right now uh right yeah we all get we can all have beer for breakfast during covid that's one of the great gifts of covid um anyway but you know it uh we've all got so many areas of our lives to work on that's you know life would be so boring i guess if we didn't so there's always gonna be something that's tanking in your life or that needs a facelift. So, but you can only work on so much at once. And I'm a pretty big believer of staying focused on one

thing. So you can at least get some momentum going with it because if you fragment and try and fix everything at once, you will fix nothing, you know, so you've got to focus and, and get some traction, but, um, but you know, you've got to, you got to have balance as well. Yeah. I think, I think, I think it's important, um, that are spending, I don't know, uh, as many years in therapy as you possibly can looking back at 50 plus, um, I'm looking back going, I should have probably spent some time in therapy somewhere along those lines. Or reading your books as well, so they can learn more and everything else. What have we covered that's in your books we want to tell people about to tease them to go out and buy this book? This is good. I have a whole chapter on boundary setting, which I think, yeah, which I have to say was so funny when I was talking to my editor about

writing this book on habits. I had a habits online course years ago and I was like, I got to write this book. So I want to put all this stuff in it. Then I was like, you know, but I also would love to write, you are a badass at boundaries because I don't know about you. You said you're 53. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm 55. And I was like, there was something about when I hit 50 everything got so much easier like saying no got so much easier doing what I wanted letting people screw up their own lives letting them have that as their problem unless they ask me for help got so much easier instead of feeling like I needed to fix everybody and I remember my dad he's an Italian immigrant with a really thick accent and I can't speak like about him without using his accent so that's why I'm going to say this the way I say it now but he was like you know I don't know if you get older and and wiser or older and more tired and I was like that's it

like you just you don't have the energy for the drama once you hit 50 and it's such a gift you know so I found that I got really good. I know I make my dad sound like an Indian immigrant. I realized my brother does a much better accent. I was laughing at, you know, what you were saying about how, you know, why am I making my life miserable with those bills? I'm just so tired. I realized actually that's now why I'm the same way.

Right. Oh my God. I will not invite you over. If I don't want you over, I will kick you out. I will make you dinner. If I want to, i will not invite you over if i don't want you over i will kick you out i will make you dinner if i want to i will not make you dinner if i don't like i don't i don't have so much energy to give like second guessing what you want worrying if you don't like me i mean listen i've still got some of that but there was something about hitting 50 anyway so when i was when i was writing badass habits i I was talking to my editor. I was like, I really, I really want to write. You are a badass at

setting awesome boundaries or something. She goes, but boundaries and habits. Like if you don't have good boundaries, you're going to have crappy habits. I was like, Eureka. So I wrote a whole chapter on them. And I also want to say for all you youngsters out there listening, you can do it in your twenties too, but I just didn't realize it was a thing. So you guys can have an awesome jumpstart on all this. If you want, you don't have to wait until your hip hurts to get fit at boundaries. But anyway, so I wrote this whole chapter on boundaries and it was super fun. I saw some of your discussions on this in different podcasts when I was researching you. And that was one of something I wanted to talk about because I love this idea because boundaries are so important because also that's part of identity

when you're young, uh, this, those stupid young people, uh, when you're young, you know, your friends and people you have, or you're so bound to them because they're a really, um, part of your identity. I mean, that's kind of, I even raised and you're, you're kind of still searching it to who you are, but as you get older, you start to cement who you are and you start setting more boundaries. And, and I think this is really important because I think boundaries is, is like you probably write in your book, so tied to identity. And of course, people who don't want you to change, don't want you to lose weight, work out, you know, make more money, whatever your, whatever your goal is. People who don't want you to do that are going to interfere with you because it's their identity too. But those, those boundaries are so important. And I think as you just get different things over the years where I've realized that I don't need to be friends with everybody. I don't need to – well, I have a huge fan base on social media, but I don't need to be – like they're not coming over for dinner sort of thing like you mentioned.

But I think this is really important. What's a good way to analyze the boundaries that you have and maybe reassess them or set them or tell people to get the hell out of your life, I guess. Yeah. I love what you said about how it is so locked into identity because it literally is the boundary of where you end and the rest of the world begins. I mean, that is what a personal boundary is. And so, yeah, I mean, I taught, I sort of talked about three basic kinds of boundaries. There's a whole bunch of different kinds of, I did the most common ones, you know, the one where the boundary where you say yes to everything when you really want to say no, which is the most common, especially for the ladies. Like we, my God, anyway, that's a biggie. There's also the boundary where you say

no to everything because you're scared and you're locked up and you need to sort of crack it open and start saying a few more yeses. And the third kind of boundary I talked about was where you either try to totally control somebody else's life and get so gooey and meshed in there as, or you let other people just take over your life and don't stand up for yourself in that department. So, you know, and I think we all, depending on who we're dealing with, participate in all of these lovely boundary issues.

So, you know, you have different relationships with different people, so we can all certainly bounce back and forth between those. And so, you know, again, it's awareness. It's becoming really aware of where you're sucking at it. And honestly, it's like, where are you unhappy? Who are you unhappy with? And taking responsibility for your relationships and being like, well, maybe I think that person

is an overbearing bitch because I never say no to her. You know, like maybe I need to set a boundary and I haven't been clear about my needs and she's just rolling with what I put out, you know? So it really is a lot about taking personal responsibility. And I think a really important thing, especially with the saying no boundary, is understanding that you're not a big, bad, mean person for doing it and you're not cutting people off. You're actually doing everybody a favor because when you are not clear about your needs in any of these, you, what does that cause? A whole lot of resentment, um, walking on eggshells. Like nobody really knows what's going on. Passive aggressiveness. Like, you know, why is somebody so

grouchy every time I come over? Cause they're pissed at me. because they set a bad boundary because they didn't tell me they don't want me to come over. It's like everybody loses. So in the initial setting of the boundary, it might be a little tough because you've always been a doormat and now you refuse to be a doormat. So the people who've been enjoying wiping their feet on you now have nowhere to wipe their feet. But if they love you and respect you and want you to flourish, then they'll get it and everybody will be better for it. You know, it's an interesting, interesting thing. I think this is a really important topic, especially in mesh with everything that you've talked about with, you know, changing your habits and stuff. And you

have to address these things. I know a lot of people, you know, they, they struggle with boundaries. They struggle with friendships. Well, I don't want of people, you know, they, they struggle with boundaries. They struggle with friendships. Well, I don't want to be mean. But then they don't realize how destructive those people are in their life and how much sometimes they're sabotaging them. I mean, I've been guilty at sometimes being the saboteur with some of my friends and stuff. Don't get married. It's a death thing. You know, I'm like that sometimes that Vince Vaughn guy. And I think it was a school where I'm standing at the altar. They're like, Ron, you can run. You know, I'm like that sometimes that Vince Vaughn guy. And I think it was a school where I'm standing at the altar like, Ron, you can run. You know, and sometimes my friends get married and then I realize I have to change my identity to, OK, I have to accept that they're married.

And, you know, if they want to spend the rest of their life and happy, that's their business. I'm just being funny. No, I'm not. Anyway, but no, I've a lot of my friends. It's kind of funny. I have a, I have a really tight group of friends that I've, I've really, I, I've pure, I started purifying my friends a few, well, a while ago. I sound like I'm in a cult, huh? Um, well, cause you're old and tired. You don't have time to hang out.

I love this. I really don't know why, but you know, I started, I started really going, you know what? I want quantity around me. I want quantity, people, quality, quantity. I still do that, but I want quality people close to me. And so I started really looking at their integrity levels, whether good, bad for people or whether I would, you know, people have different rules for that, I suppose. But I really looked at,

you know, the, the goodness to humanity sort of people. Can I trust them? Trust is, was an important thing for me. Honesty, people that are trying to do good in the world, at least they try. And so I really kind of assessed that and gave that and set up some boundaries to where if you don't fit that mold, you know, we'll associate together. I'll say Heidi on the street, but, you know, I'm not going to loan you money or you're not going to come over the house. But I think, I think these are real important points with boundaries to, to help set those first,

because those are the people who, who, you know, are usually either interfering or helping us with our identity. I remember, um, uh, a couple of my girlfriends over the years,

they would come home and they would just, they would go off on their girlfriends. And I'd be like, well, why do you hang out with that person? Cause you clearly just complain about them all the time. be like, well, why do you hang out with that person, because you clearly just complain about them all the time, and like, like, I don't think you realize how much is, sometimes I break them out of the habit, they, they come home and talk about co-workers that

were always working against them, or girlfriends that were working against them, and I'd just be like, let's go kill them, let's just, I mean, you've complained about this for a year now, so let's just go murder them, we'll put them in a grave and they'll be like you know reverse psychology basically i didn't really ever murder anybody wink wink um the uh and and they'll be like no no i don't i know i don't hate her and you're like well girl i'm i'm trying to feed it back to you that you do like and maybe you just need to cut those people out of your life set some boundaries and maybe go find some better friends you don't have to complain about all the time i don't know good point but you know and that's it it's like they're not even aware it's like yeah that was usually how i'd break them too i'd just be like let's go murder them

and i'd be like let me explain something to you you talk about your friends like i talk about enemies that i want to murder like there's something wrong there so maybe you need some boundaries enemies you need new identities it's interesting how we tie ourselves to the same people uh all of our lives marriage uh and uh sorry i gotta keep being that joke now um and and and we don't change i mean sometimes recycling different people in our lives or coming up with something new. And a lot of people do this. They go, I want to get divorced and become something new. I want to leave you and become something new.

I mean, that's pretty much my whole dating life, really, when it comes down to it from their end. Anyway, enough single and married jokes. Anything more we need to know about the book, Jen, before we go out? No, what else do we need to know about the book, Jen, before we go out? Oh, I might also need to know about the book. It's really good. I got a story about, I'm 6'1", about, you know, being 6'1 and being forced to play varsity basketball when I was a freshman. Pretty horrifying.

Was it horrifying? You got to tell us the story. You've teased it now. Well, yeah, because I was really, you know, tell us the story you've teased it now well uh yeah because i was really you know when you grow that tall that fast you use the balance doesn't usually come with it and i'm still waiting for that piece of the puzzle actually but um yeah and just talking about how i had this coach who was really persuasive who talked me into like being on the varsity bat and i was such a nerd i was like you had

to get a cootie shot if you touched me like not popular and like all the like cool popular girls there were seniors were on the varsity basketball team i was like i'm gonna i'm gonna get eaten alive but this coach talked me into joining and anyway it was and then she's always like sincero just like rebound and pass do not dribble do not shoot don't do anything fancy I was so uncoordinated and just like loping up and down the court. And I really, I mean, I was the tallest person in like nine counties. So we were like, what's the state that year? But anyway, so she talked me into that. I was miserable. I hated it. And then she also talked me into dressing up as big bird for field day.

Like she could talk me into anything. Basically it's on, it's a chapter on how powerful words are. And I was like, if you don't think words are powerful you never knew my coach so i finally stood up to her and um after the big bird debacle i did not rejoin the basketball team but um man she could talk me into anything so you gave a little story about how powerful your words are so that you really got to watch i'm like bitching about your friends so that your boyfriend um suggests murder things like that you just may want to do an awareness session why do i keep attracting to people like chris voss and uh i advise everyone to do that maybe explore your childhood what happened to your father and stuff like that i remember i

used to have some friends that own strip clubs and they'd be like, you know, if it wasn't for bad parenting, we'd be out of a job. So, you know, I think, I think it's interesting to me. A lot of stuff comes from childhood, childhood trauma and everything. That's a part of your brain. Like you, you literally have a soft spot and all of their thoughts and beliefs and, you know, decisions about the way reality is.

They just get, they just get they just go right in that little soft spot and they build in those patterns like we talk about where we're not aware of them and then we have these rules and you're like where do these rules come from and it's like well our childhood thanks dad mom way to go good job let's just blame your parents for everything i'm 53 i'm still blaming my parents for everything it's their fault i spilled my coffee today it's my mom's fault really seriously uh anyway give us some plugs on the book jen so people can go look them up on the interwebs okay yeah this one is badass habits uh and again my website is you are a badass.com jen sincero.com i'm on a little virtual tour, right? I don't know

when is this airing? Uh, probably the next 24 hours. Oh, wow. That's speedy. Yeah. So I'm on a book tour. So you can go to Jen Sincero.com slash events and sign up for, um, one of those virtual book tours and you can come in your pajamas, which is so nice there you go yeah um so check out her book and her books guys geez it's four four in a series five books she's written actually six chris six i'm sorry my bad uh six books she she wrote one while we were on the show that's how i got confused she's prolific she's that prolific i love people that write books they're so brilliant they spent so many hours researching stuff we've learned so much from them uh so buy her book and her books if you will uh the book is out now it just barely got released

badass habits cultivate the awareness boundaries and daily upgrades you need to make them stick. You may want to check out those 21 points she has and give you that sort of life lesson that you need to have because those will, you know, 21 days, you know, you can get those habits cemented, if you will. Thanks for being on the show with us, Jen. We certainly appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having me, Chris. This was a blast. This was fun.

Go to all the different websites to order her book, and also go to goodreads.com for it. That's Chris Voss. There's no bell notification there. YouTube.com, there is a bell notification. It is free for an unlimited time. Hit that upgrade. It's like an upgrade.

It'll make you feel really good. You press the button. It gives you that warm, fuzzy feeling and the annoying notifications uh go to uh the chris wash show.com or the cbpn.com subscribe the show tell your friends to go to facebook.com the chris wash show and linkedin of course as well over there we have some big groups um thanks for my audience for tuning in we love you stay safe wear your mask and we'll see you next time