The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Be A Giant Killer: Overcoming Your Everyday Goliaths by Ed Norwood

Episode Date: November 16, 2023

Be A Giant Killer: Overcoming Your Everyday Goliaths by Ed Norwood https://amzn.to/49xCwdH Ernenterprises.org Be A Giant Killer is an award-winning book! Maincrest Media Book Award: Religion (Christian, Nonfiction) Literary Titan: Gold Book Award The Firebird Book Award: Self, Motivational International Book Awards Finalist: Spirituality-Inspirational Pacific Book Awards Finalist: Best Religion/Spirituality Outstanding Creator Award: Best Writing Non-Fiction, Spirituality, Christianity, Motivational & Inspirational, and Self Help (2nd Place). Reader's Favorite: Christian: Biblical Counseling Pinnacle Book Achievement Award: Best Book in Inspirational SINCE THE DAY YOU WERE BORN, there have been giants in your life. Tyrants of immense size who try to exert negative influence over your destiny. Giants try to intimidate you into inaction and apathy. They want to convince you that your past mistakes, family tree, size, and shame will always hold you back. I, too, was born with giants. When I was eight years old, twenty-seven of my relatives were massacred by cult leader Jim Jones in the Jonestown Guyana Tragedy. The shame of my own family history shadowed my life until I discovered the lessons revealed in this book, a searing expose of how our history can influence our legacy. We were made to break the cycle and, just like men and women in the Bible, fiercely face the giants in our lives before they get passed to the next generation. Be A Giant Killer is a knockout punch to what's holding you back from your wildest dreams and best life! "Powerful and impactful! Ed is an incredible man and friend with a very unique personal story. His passion is contagious! He identifies God's dreams for His children and the giants in the way of fulfilling these dreams. This is a must-read for anyone excited to use biblical weapons to help defeat these giants in life and chase their dreams! Get reading and let's go!" -BRUCE TOLLNER, Co-Author of Sidelined with Indianapolis Colts Coach Chuck Pagano/NFL Agent/ Owner Rep 1 which represents Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Marcus Mariota, Ben Roethlisberger and many others. "In Be A Giant Killer, Ed Norwood equips the reader to be able to readily identify the enemies that hinder us, and then conquer them. Defining the problem well is half the battle. This is gold to those who are ready to be victorious warriors." -BISHOP DALE C. BRONNER, D. MIN., Founder/Senior Pastor, Word of Faith Family Worship Cathedral, Atlanta, GA About the author Ed Norwood is President of ERN/The National Council of Reimbursement Advocacy and AWARD-WINNING AUTHOR of "Be A Giant Killer, Overcoming Your Everyday Goliaths." He has been recognized as a unique and distinctive authority in transitional leadership and administrative laws that govern the healthcare delivery process. Ed has done hundreds of media interviews and lectures worldwide, focusing on public policy, healthcare advocacy, leadership development, and the lessons of the Jonestown Tragedy. Multi-faceted, with a creative ability to inspire his audience, Ed combines his business influence and expertise with his passion for ministry to help people flow in their dreams, destiny, and authority in life.

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fosworth on the tiktok and chris fos facebook.com he is the hottest new author to come out with his book uh called be a killer overcoming your everyday goliaths by ed norwood he joins us on the show and he's going to be talking to us about all the things that went into it and how you can, you too, you too, me, can be a giant killer. Ed Norwood is the founder of ERN Enterprises and Champions Unleashed and has been recognized as a unique and distinctive authority in transitional leadership and administrative laws that govern the health care delivery process. When he was eight years old, 27 of his relatives were massacred by cult leader Jim Jones in the Jonestown Guana tragedy. The fame of his family's history shattered his life until he discovered the lessons revealed in his book, Be a Giant Killer, a searing expose of how our history can influence our legacy. He's done hundreds of media interviews and lectures worldwide,

focusing on leadership, development, branding, storytelling, and the lessons of the Jonestown tragedy, and healthcare advocacy as well. Multifaceted with the creative ability to inspire his audience, he combines his business influence with expertise with a passion for ministry to help people flow in their dreams and transform the next generation. Welcome to the show, Ed. How are you? Hey, Chris. I'm fine. I'm great. It's raining here in California. I know that you're not experiencing rain, but my eyes are tearing up because you're so hilarious. I didn't bring a handkerchief to just

deal with the fact that I'm crying laughing over here at the time so I'm going to try to get through this interview the best way I can. There you go. Well, a lot of people cry when they listen to the show. They're just like, why did he do that joke? So there you go. Give me your dot com, sir, so people can find you on the interwebs.

They can find us on the interwebs. Uh, they could, uh, find us on, uh, find me on Instagram. I'm on Instagram, uh, champions, uh, underscore bites. They can find me on LinkedIn as well. Uh, Twitter and Facebook. And of course my website is ed Norwood.com. There you go. Ed Norwood.com. So give us a 30,000 overview of what's inside the book, please. You know, I wrote Be a Giant Killer because I believe that every giant we don't defeat grows into the next generation.

And the things that are left unresolved from our past or childhood, the trauma, the shame, the fear, the crazy, the wrong leadership, and shame can be fatal to our dreams and relationship. And I just simply expose giants, things that are related to us, things that silence the little boy and little girl inside of us from speaking, things rooted not just in bad family history, but also patterns and habits that have been passed down, passed down and passed down to the next generation. Yeah. And how to achieve your goals, how to achieve being a giant killer and not be, I suppose, fearless or how to be fearless, I suppose. Yes, yes. And I kind of, you know, for this,

because I know that you were a former hostage negotiator. Ron Chris Foss is the other Chris Foss. I'm the guy with the big podcast. So I wrote down just a few things that deal with the ideal audience, right? When the vision of the book took place. People that have failed and need survival tactics. People that have big dreams in their future, but giants in their past or review mirror.

People that need the inspiration on how to overcome broken relationships and a difficult past. And I love this one, people that need hostage negotiation skills to release the dream in them. And so I'm excited to hear from you on this. There you go. Well, I think he's got a book out on that. Mine's Beacons of Leadership. Pick that up wherever fine books are sold, folks. So tell us a little bit about your childhood.

You've got an interesting story to tell i mean that not a lot of people have experienced yeah you know i actually had an opportunity to write about something that was very personal to me um you know i tell people that what books have in common with me and you are words and stories, scary stories, love stories, history stories, stories of betrayal and deception or redemption. You described my first 10 marriages. Yeah, of failed marriages, how people overcame things they went through in life and overcame great odds.

And I believe that if we're bold and courageous enough to open the book cover of our life up, that our story can change lives. So Jonestown was the largest loss of civilian life before 9-11. Not over 900 people were killed. I was eight years old when it took place. Were you there or were you here in the States or where were you? Yeah, I was one of the children that attended People's Temple.

My mom traveled for ministry purposes. And my great grandma, she was the first African-American family that brought individuals into the San Francisco location of People's Temple on Gary. And so I visited the temple. I played with children who were in the temple. My cousins who were very close to me, seven of them, they were in the temple. And at the time that it was taking place, I was just enamored with the fact that as a single child, only child, there were so many toys and food and community that was there, but there were red flags that I just didn't pick up until years, years later. You're eight, you know, it's not like anybody's telling you red flag,

you know, what to look for. You're, you're just going like, like i don't know they told me this is cool yeah i mean there there were i mean my mom she began to have uh prophetic visions that jim jones is going to kill our family in a jungle and really remember yeah she began to have dreams that they were going to die in a jungle they told jim jones that what her dream was. And so Jones had a habit of putting a hit on people that would speak against the cause. So they put a hit on my mom. She came off the road. She hit us, hit me in a suburb called Daily City. And I just remember over the course of time, seeing my family less. And the next thing I know, of course, on November 18th, this Saturday, 45 years ago, I see 900 bodies near the pavilion in Jonestown. And I begin to see some of my cousin's names scroll up on the screen like a Star Wars movie. And I'll never forget it.

Yeah. That is extraordinary. name scroll up on the screen like a star wars movie and i'll never i'll never forget it yeah that is extraordinary and so 27 members of your family were uh caught up in it um was it was it mostly your it was anyone from your immediate family did your mom go down there or was it maybe she didn't go down there because of the hit my mom was always uh against people's temple she was never a member uh she did share with me that um at one point they were trying to connect her to people's temple and jones may have offered her to become a youth pastor at this organization which i don't even call a church, to be honest with you. But she was never a member there. My family, my uncle came home one day and he found his house ransacked.

Wow. And his seven kids taken to Jonestown without passports. Wow. With his wife gone. He never saw him again. And man, he lived with so much regret and so much anger towards God for this so-called church being responsible for the death of his children. But I tell people that Jim Jones did not belong to the church. There's a very interesting passage that the Apostle John once wrote. He said, they went out from us, but they did not really belong to us.

For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their going out showed that none of them belonged with us at all. And people's temple was a cult. Jones was an extreme terrorist, a socialist. He was a communist. So don't confuse. We tell people don't confuse Jonestown with the church of Jesus Christ. The people who died there, they were deceived and they were tricked and they thrived. Although they thrived in social work and civil rights and were passionate ambassadors, they believed the wrong leader. They believed in the false dream.

Yeah. False prophet. Yeah. Yeah. For those who are neither memory jogged on Jim Jones and the Jonestown massacre, that's where the drinking the Kool-Aid analogy comes from because that's everyone took a drink, the poison Kool-Aid analogy comes from because that's, everyone took a drink of poison Kool-Aid and

died. And that's kind of where you'll hear that cult reference from everyone's drinking the Kool-Aid. 27 of your relatives, I mean, how did you process that? You know, it's kind of hard to process at your age, but I'm sure over the years, you know, it kind of maybe haunted you and, you know, survivor's guilt maybe, or, or, you know, that could have been you technically, if your mom had, you know, bought in and take you guys there. Yeah. I mean, it's first, let me just say this. I absolutely hate the quote, don't drink the Kool-Aid because it's the front page story, but not the backstory. What many people don't realize, I write this in the book on page 206, that the top pathologist who did the autopsy there, he determined that there were fresh needle marks at the back of the left shoulder blades of 80 to 90% of the victims. Oh, really?

And others had been shot or strangled. Yeah. One survivor reported that those who resisted were forced by armed guards. And then they found these crossbow arrows that were shot in the pavilion side, and they found crossbow marks in the back of people who tried to run. Oh, wow. Just think about it. Think about the gruesome discovery of the bodies. They're laid perfectly arm and arm next to each other. I mean, if you and I are in a room, Chris, and we take poison,

we're just going to drop dead and fall and all over the place. There's not this line of bodies of 900 people that are put together. And so we share with people that the backstory of Jonestown is that it was mass murder. And the question is, how did a thousand people get over to Jonestown in the first place? Many without passports. And that's what I really focus on in the actual story. In processing it, to be honest with you, it was real easy to process it. I wrote this in the actual book on page 40, that what happened to my family in 1978 happens to the best of us. We run from problems. We fail. We make mistakes.

We stay in comfort zones. We ignore red flags. We cower in shame and guilt. We fear change. We fight bouts of depression. We stay in unhealthy, abusive, familiar, and sometimes destructive relationships out of fear. We die prematurely taking our dreams to the grave. And that's what happened to the people of Jonestown. Yeah. Yeah. And so in your book,

you tell your story and you, you try and help people how to overcome the everyday Goliaths, how to be a giant killer and, and how to live your life in a completely different way. Yeah. I've had a chance to really uh you know for years i have lived in a bit of shame over what took place in johnstown shame and how they died shame and what they who they followed. Mm hmm.

And how did you how did you deal with that? How have you squared that? I had a chance to do an interview yesterday and I started looking at some of the pictures of my cousins and it was a very sobering moment. Because there were so many red flags that were present. Uh, processing how I process it was this, that in order for us to survive the tragic decisions that people have made in our lineage to survive the bad family history or the patterns that keep growing to the next generation. We have to know our history. We have to be, have the courage to tell our story or what happened. And we're in a generation where a lot of people in previous generations that raised us,

they don't always share their history like that. I went to the doctor recently and they were asking those questions, Chris, you know, in the questionnaire, who had blood pressure, who had heart disease, who had diabetes? I don't know. I couldn't even answer the questionnaire. And it started making me realize that they're asking that question for a reason because there are things in our lineage that have the ability to affect us today because it's in our bloodline. Oh, yeah. And not just health conditions or diseases, but bad habits, things that hang on our family tree

that we really pose as harmless or we state are harmless, but really have an impact today on how we love, how we resolve conflict, how we forgive, how we remain in marriage or how we come out of marriage. And so really how I processed everything was developing the courage to begin to tell my story. Because as men, we can feel we're bulletproof. We can feel as if we're insulated from the things that have taken place and we will try to build a business over the pain or outdo the pain in the gym. But I've learned that the things that we bury in life, we subconsciously carry to other relationships. That's very true.

Yeah, that's very true. So what are some of the other giant killers or giants that you see in people's lives? What are some giants that people need to look to kill? You know, I identify in the actual book about seven giants and one of the bigger ones, and I deal with things like fear and dissatisfaction, addiction, shame, laziness, procrastination. But one of the big ones that I really address because of the story of Jonestown is family history. So I'm in, I'm doing memorial services. I'm doing interviews for years.

I've been business. I've been blessed with a prosperous business. But I rarely would bring up what happened in Jonestown in those circles because of the shame connected to the story. And I go to this men's conference, Chris, and the facilitator at the conference, he challenges us as men to write our story and tell our story to our wives. And they say this because her story or your story is her story. She is living the things that you've untold in your life every single day.

So they challenge us, write your entire story from beginning to the end and tell it to her. And then they asked us, write down at least 10 things that you wish you would have heard from people in life. And I'm looking at them, Chris, and nine of the 10 things that I wrote were from my dad. Now, my dad was never around me, by the way, never, never around me. The only only recollection I have of him is him telling me he's going to come and buy me a coat in San Francisco when I'm about maybe six or seven. So I get ready. Back then, you might remember this. Some other listeners may not. They had bomber jackets with the hood, with the fur.

I was excited about a bomber jacket. He picks me up. He takes me to the liquor store two blocks down the street, and he buys me a Coke. Oh, so it was a Coke instead of a coat. I thought he said coat was a Coke instead of a Coke I thought he said Coke He said Coke Well you know there's still great wonderful gifts

Well I guess they still bring A smile right Coke and a smile But that was the only recollection I have of him So I'm there and I'm writing these Items down And nine of the ten things are from a guy, from my dad who was never in my life.

Things like, that was a great game, son. Did you ever hear that from him? I never heard these things from him. So I began to write down the things I wish I'd heard from him. Great game, son. I was school today. I'm sorry I wasn't there for you.

You matter. What do you want to study in college? And I'm writing these items and it just amazed me that he had that impact on me. And I asked my mom, I started asking hard questions. Hey, mom, why didn't you and dad work out? And she tells me, yeah, he would make promises to come and pick you up and you'd put your coat on, you'd be ready. And when he wouldn't show up, you would burst in tears. And I'm sitting there, Chris, I'm 40 years old and I start crying uncontrollably. It's as if I was holding, I had placed all of that experience

into a box and locked it up. Yeah. And you've been carrying it for 40 years, 30, 40 years. Yeah. And I begin to think to myself this though, I've got three kids. If his inaction can impact me and cause me to carry things from childhood into adulthood, how much more can my actions to my kids cause them to carry unresolved hurt and trauma from childhood into their adulthood? Wow. I can no longer make excuses such as why i did the best that i could that is powerful dude that just hit me like a ton of bricks man that is powerful to think about so now i'm in a place where i'm starting to think okay think, okay, what have I said? What have I done? And I start excavating unresolved things in their life and saying things like, hey, son, when you were 14 and this happened and I made you confront your coach and your team and embarrassed you, I was prideful. I was angry. I'm so sorry. Will you ever forgive me for that? My daughter ran track and she's running track and it's just her and the other girl. She's right. It's like a photo finish, Chris.

And she starts slowing down and limping. And like an idiot, I'm on the sideline, push, push. You're fine. You're fine. You're fine. and she comes off of that race she loses and she's limping back to the car and i said to her you were fine nothing was wrong with you you could have won the race start thinking of myself years later she may never remember who won that race but she'll never forget how i made her feel that day. What's that old line? People will always remember how you make them feel. Yeah. And often I look back at my life and I see that, man, I was a great encourager. Hey, that was a bad game. We'll pick it up tomorrow. You're going to be great tomorrow.

You're going to be awesome. You're going to exceed expectations. I was a great encourager with my kids, but I was a poor comforter with him. And sometimes, you know, it's not so much recognizing their deeds. You know, I kind of experienced some of the things you've talked about with my father. We didn't always have a great relationship. And I remember the first time I heard him say it, I can remember at the exact moment I can see everything around it, was the first time, and I think I was about 30. I think I was in my 30s or 28 to 32, somewhere in there. And he said to me that he was proud of me. It was the first time in my life that he'd ever said he

was proud of me and we'd never gotten along up until then so he wasn't very proud of me but you know that that was something i needed to hear earlier and more often and if your father listening to this um you know the journey that you're you went on is really important. To tell our kids, basically what you're trying to say to them is, I don't care how well you did in the race. I don't care if you weren't first. I value you. Absolutely.

And you as a person. I don't value you based upon how good your grades are or whatever. I value you. You are my son or my daughter yeah and i think more people need to have that conversation it gets lost somewhere in the in the minutiae so powerful i i was talking to a young man who i mentor he i coached him in basketball and he was telling me recently that him and my son have struggled with the same thing over the course of years. And that is me and his dad were so hard on them that they often felt they were never enough. They often felt that, and I'm sitting here hitting myself because I took my son to a basketball tournament at 17. And I remember the tournament just being really hard on him.

And afterwards, the college coach comes to him and says, hey, I see that your aggression level hasn't risen to your talent level. After the practice or after the camp, I'm telling them, see, I told you, you've got the talent, but you don't have the aggression. You've got to do X and you have to do this. And years later, about five years ago, I find the video, Chris, of this camp. Oh, wow. He is bawling. I mean, he is all over the place. And I'm talking to this young

man that I mentor, sharing with him. I was so fixated at everything that he wasn't doing. I wasn't seeing what he was doing. There you go. And you know, experts say that 80 to 90% of how we observe things in life occurs by the age of five or six. So since five or six, you and me and our children, they've just been observing and watching and watching and watching. And our history shapes our relationships, how we respond to people, places, reactions, and things. And so I think it's so important to have difficult conversations with loved ones to resolve some of those things that we carry in life. There you go. So you're not carrying it through life.

You know, the thing that you find, you know, I found at 50, I look back on my life and childhood trauma and thought, yeah, I wish I would have maybe seen a psychiatrist sooner i probably there's people listening to the show right now that are like he needs to see psychiatrist um the but uh uh you can see the damage that was done from carrying that trauma for all those years um and and how it impact your relationships, your life decisions, and everything else. So, yeah, the sooner we can clear all that up, but also, you know, as a parent, as a leader, try and see those things, you know, and communicating the value to people more.

I mean, if anything, it's one epiphany you've given me is all the people in my life, even my friends on Facebook and stuff, maybe I need to communicate to them that I value them more instead of just like, well, I'm glad we're friends. Telling people you value them maybe is a better language to use, maybe. I don't know. And I think that it's powerful what you actually said, because in my generation and really in my culture as well, the black people don't go to therapy. We don't do that at all. Really? And that's just a big thing on a cultural perspective.

I'm a big proponent of therapy. Some people are in therapy for people that won't go to therapy. And so over the course of the years, I've learned some things with it. You know, my dad has never told me happy birthday before. Wow. And, you know, he called me a couple of years ago. It was my birthday. He didn't even know it was my birthday.

Hey, how are you doing? And I said, oh, well, it's my birthday. And then my family took me out for my birthday. And I just got home. He said, OK, we'll give you a call back. Doesn't say anything. He's quiet. As the years go by now, I'm getting irritated.

Listen, I'm 50 something years old. I've got a beautiful wife, beautiful kids, great business. I'm extremely blessed, but I'm at a place where I need to hear him say happy birthday. So I, I, I, and I'm noticing on Facebook, he sees the people who are saying happy birthday and posting on my page. And he says nothing. So I say, Hey dad, can you tell me why you've never wished me happy birthday? Silence,. Crickets, nothing. I say, hey, dad, just want to follow up to that message above. I'm just wondering why you never said happy birthday to me. Crickets. I go see my therapist. My therapist gives me some words to say. So I come back to him and I say, hey, dad, can you help me

understand why you have a problem celebrating the day I was born? Silence. Crickets. Finally, after another attempt, he finally says, okay, well, let's set some time and talk about it. Let's set an appointment in two months. I set the appointment. I forgot about it. To his credit, he came back and said, do you still want to meet? But it was in that moment, I thought to myself that- You probably forgot about it because you're like, this guy's never coming through. So you probably weren't there. Maybe he pushed it ahead, hoping that I might forget. But I think over the course of time, it was hard for a while because earlier I asked him the same question with

my mom. Hey, why didn't you and mom work out? I could have used a father at this age and during this time in my life. And he tells me, Chris, I'm not even sure if I'm your father. I was floored. He had never said that to me in life. And for a period of time, I didn't even know what to call him after he made that statement to him and so it's odd how the things that we say or we don't say how they impact us yeah or impact the people that we love that we lead that we raise in such a profound way. Now that's powerful, dude. Did you, did you ever resolve that? Did you say, Hey, well, why don't we go take a paternity test and figure it all out?

You're trying to, you're trying to put me in therapy, Chris. I see what you're doing. Okay. Try to put me in therapy. You set up the premise, man. I'm sitting here in the drama, but going, I got to finish this ride, man. I got to know the answer. Listen, I'm still working on myself, Chris, right now. I'm still working on myself. My wife has continued to talk to me about the importance of sitting down with him, doing a paternity test. And know in my head I say to myself I know he's my father I've got that nose I know for a fact but she's telling me just deal with it because you don't need to carry that any further and so I'm working on that I'm gonna schedule some time and go see him in Nevada. He's in Nevada as well.

Oh, there you go. And have a conversation about that because I've realized this, that I went to a marriage conference years ago and they said something very interesting. They said that our hearts are like black boxes. Mine's pretty black. In an airplane. Black box.

It's that indestructible piece of metal under the pilot seat yeah that records the events and it records everything it records the good welcome to united we'll have a six-hour flight to the east coast we'll serve food in the cabin, put your feet up and enjoy the flight. And it observes and it records the bad. Mayday, mayday, smoke in the cockpit. And if this plane, Chris, plunges out of the sky and into the ocean and breaks in pieces, there's mass casualties. The government will send divers beyond all the debris to find this little black box because it is indestructible. And it has the ability to withstand catastrophic disaster and still remember. And that's our heart.

There you go. So let me ask you this, because I'd love to hear the resolution of this, but, um, you know, it sounds like your father has some trepidation or some standoffishness because of, uh,

he's not sure if he's your father. And maybe the thing to do is go to him and say, Hey dad, you know, tell you what, dad, why don't we figure that all this, let's get all this,

let's figure it all out. Let's go take a paternity test and let's find out. And then maybe we can start either a new journey of father and son, or we can end this one. And then, you know, you're just going to have to call Mari and figure it out with your mom. You're right. Like I said, I'm still working on myself, Chris. I need to pull myself through it, but I agree with you because- Be a giant killer there, Ed.

As long as that's happening, that exists as a giant. That's true. That is in my life. That has the ability to shadow and intimidate or impede my progress in life. And one of the things I want to do in 2024 is just that, to take the paternity test, have a conversation and have the ability to see if maybe we can't get back the years, but perhaps we can create a new normal. Perhaps we can start having some hard but necessary conversations

that will resolve some things that I've kind of carried in my heart for years. Absolutely. Plus you get that damn child support. He owes your mom. I'm just kidding. I had to get a joke in there. We're being pretty serious, but it's good stuff. Let's get a squeeze in here for your business and what you do at ERN Enterprises.

Let's get some plugs in for this and talk about this because we could probably go all day, and it's just beautiful stuff you shared today. Thank you. Yes. We've been in business for about 24 years now, and we advocate for medically appropriate healthcare for patients and providers. We challenge HMOs that make negligent utilization decisions or medical necessity decisions to make sure that patients get the care that they need. So we do that through training, through technology, through representation,

and through consulting as well. I've spent the last 24 years inspiring people to tell their story, to help them to understand that buried stories are buried treasure. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's what I tell my enemies that are buried in the backyard.

Now, do you guys do business across the nation? Are you segmented to a certain area? We are. We're nationwide, so we have provider members in about 30-something states. And we've just had a chance to impact a lot of great people, a lot of great stories. We do pro bono work to help patients who can't afford us get care for themselves. We've had some success taking state agencies to a hearing to ensure that patients get life-saving surgeries. And so the work is incredibly rewarding. I've got a staff of about 20 people here in Costa Mesa who are willing to walk

through brick walls on behalf of patients to make sure they get the care they deserve. That is awesome. And Costa Mesa, what a beautiful place too. I appreciate that. And so if someone has a family member that's being denied, like maybe they need some special cancer treatment or a special drug or something like that, and the insurance companies are saying, nope, something like that would be an applicable client for you? Yeah, they can reach out to us. We do about two or three, sorry, three to five pro bono cases per year.

So they can even qualify for a pro bono. The key thing is that they have to have a denial in hand. If they have a denial in hand, we can then challenge it and look to see if there are certain laws that the plan violated when they made that denial. Wow. That's some real attorney stuff there, man. Nailing all the legal language down and things like that. Yeah,

we have a, I've got an in-house attorney. I've got several JDs and other individuals who are just passionate for the cause. And we have, we had a young boy years ago who had a leg lengthening surgery that was being denied by the state of California. And two failed leg lengthening surgeries. And we got him care in Florida through an administrative law judge hearing using a loophole in the law.

And so a lot of people don't know what their rights are. And we have a team that can find out if they have a denied service that should have been provided to them. Wow. I'm glad there's this out there. There was a show I watched years ago, and I think it was a Netflix documentary, about how the insurance companies are getting with murder by, you know, they didn't want to pay for a certain patient's care. And, you know, these people paid for insurance all their life. They paid in. And then, you know, they get cancer,

and the insurance company won't do a procedure or won't do a, I think it was called Healthcare Inc. or something like that. Got it, got it. And so these people were dying. And then sometimes they would just delay and delay and delay in courts until the people would just die, and then they wouldn't have to deal with it at all. And it was pretty disheartening to look, to see.

Yeah. And a lot of people don't realize, even in medical necessity issues like cancer, often the denials that come in are from reviewers or doctors or medical directors that are not competent to make that decision. In other words, they don't have the education or the training or the expertise. So you could have an oncologist who's stating this person needs this chemotherapy, but it's being denied by an anesthesiologist. And so we jump in there and challenge the competency of the medical review if necessary. There you go. I've been trying to get my insurance company to pay for my Botox.

Can you help me with that? Well, that's elective. Damn it. So those are a little harder because that's elective and you're choosing to do that. But, you know, it's funny. I've seen some cosmetic procedures that are medically necessary these days. So you never know. Will they pay for my frontal body?

I will give you my first pro bono case. I got to give it to you. Okay. I'm not sure if it's pro bono, but the guy has skin cancer. They're doing treatment to take some of the skin cancer or the lesions off of his face. They're covering it. All of a sudden, they denied and they state it's cosmetic.

His wife gets involved and says, I don't know why they're saying it's cosmetic. My husband is ugly. He was ugly when I married him. He's always been ugly. This is medically necessary. Wow. That's a hard thing to take as a husband. What?

All this time? That's the same reason they deny me on the Botox. They're like, you're ugly. There's no help for you. Give up. That's why I have a beard because I've been trying to hide the ugly. You have to find the right doctor for Botox or you're going to really look bad. That's true.

And whatever you do, forget about medical necessity. Just find someone that won't make you look like the Joker. You'll be good. There you go. I don't know. I'll just have them take the collagen out of my butt and put it in my face. Then people can call me ass face. See what I did there?

Yeah, there you go. So how can people reach out to you at ERN, see if they're a fit, contact you, et cetera, et cetera? Yeah, they can reach out to us. We have a website. It's ernenterprises.com. ernenterprises.com. they can also reach out doing uh on linkedin i'm very active there and we'll be able to get them in touch with someone an advocate that can

help them there you go so you're helping people saving the world on that edge and then you've got your book be a giant killer and helping people overcome their everyday glass and i'm interested to see where your story turns out and how you reconcile with your dad. That might be a good second book for you. I'll have to come back on that. I'll have to come back and talk on that. Do you want me to call him? I'll call him.

No, I'm just kidding. I might need someone to do that, Chris. I'm going to get your cell phone. I'm going to have to text you even after I have that conversation. Yeah, we'll get Mari on the line. Have a good time. So this is going to become like a Geraldo show now. So we're going to get him there.

We're going to have an intervention, and we're going to just talk about it. Maybe we should just bring him on the show, try and work it all out here. You might want to bring a psychiatrist because I'm not the person you want to get advice from for anything well you'd be like oprah you get a dad you get it you get a dad oh dude that's a great joke that was that was awesome man you nailed that one you win the internet today um so there you go uh final pitch up for people to order the book and contact you ed as we go out uh they can find the book on amazon and Barnes and Noble. I don't know when this segment will air, but I'm doing the first book reading for Be a Giant Killer on the 45th anniversary of Jonestown, which is Saturday. I'm going to actually do it for Sunday, that Sunday, at Barnes and

Noble in Huntington Beach at 1.30 PM.m. And I'm unable to do it Saturday because my son plays football at UCLA and they're playing USC Saturday. There you go. Well, this is going to be exciting. It should be out in 48 hours. So we'll see if we can't make sure it gets up in time for that.

And then the book will be in the middle for you and all that good stuff. Well, man, you've really touched some people, I think, today and probably brought some tears to people's eyes. And what a journey you've really touched some people I think today and probably brought some tears to people's eyes and, you know, what a journey you've overcome. And, uh, you know, your story is unlike most that we hear on the thing. I mean, not everyone loses 27 relatives, uh, to a cult and, um, you know, your journey and it sounds like you're still on it. You're still, you know, working the magic of being your own giant killer. So thank you very much,

Ed, for coming to the show. Really appreciate it. Hey, I've super, I really, really enjoyed just spending time with you. Thank you, Chris, for giving me this time to share with your listeners on this platform. It means so much to me. And it means so much to us too. I mean, you've taught us several different things and shared your journey as well, which is incredible, inspiring.

Thanks for tuning in. Please order up the book where refined books are sold. Support our authors. Be a Giant Killer, Overcoming Your Everyday Goliaths from Ed Norwood. And check out some of his activities there. I didn't know it was 45 years from that. Wow, that's crazy. What an interesting time.

Well, thank you very much for coming on the show, Ed. Thanks to our audience for tuning in. Go to Goodreads.com, 4Chess, Chris Voss, LinkedIn.com, 4Chess, Chris Voss, YouTube.com, 4Chess, Chris Voss. Subscribe to the LinkedIn newsletter, the 130,000 LinkedIn group over there. Go see us at Chris Voss 1, TikTok,

and ChrisVossFacebook.com. I need somebody to read those because I just lose track. Thank you very much, Ed. Take care, my friend. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you. All right. Bye-bye.

Bye now.