The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Beyond Busyness: How to Achieve More by Doing Less by Peggy Sullivan

Episode Date: June 20, 2025

Beyond Busyness: How to Achieve More by Doing Less by Peggy Sullivan Amazon.com Peggysullivanspeaker.com “Too many people have fallen into the busy cycle that Peggy so accurately and honestly portrays. This book is the wakeup call you need to get back to living.” — Seth Godin, author of The Song of Significance FINALIST FOR THE 2024 BOOK EXCELLENCE AWARD FOR WOMEN’S HEALTH Busy is not better. Break the cycle of “just getting stuff done.” If you’re feeling unfulfilled at the end of each day because you are busy but never seem to have time for what truly matters (a phenomenon called time poverty), you’re not alone. As a recovering “busyness addict,” corporate performance expert Peggy Sullivan’s struggle with the cycle of burnout and anxiety—leading to divorce, two totaled cars, a heart attack, and even accidentally eating cat food—led her on a quest for life outside busy . . . a sweet spot where productivity, happiness, and self-care can coexist. Her search led her to create a transformative framework for taking back control of your time and your life that has helped individuals, entrepreneurs, nonprofits, small businesses, and Fortune 500 companies such as Google, Bank of America, and Blue Cross Blue Shield get their employees off the busy treadmill and align their time and work with what’s truly important. Grounded in deep research, including the results of a first-of-its-kind 2023 Busy Report, her three-step Busy-Busting Process has been proven to eliminate unintentional busyness, ignite the power of happiness, and unlock a more meaningful life. Beyond Busyness provides a simple, data-backed, and actionable approach to balancing peak performance, self-care, and happiness without sacrificing one for the other. About the author Peggy is a keynote speaker, author, consultant, and trusted researcher. Through her work, she has discovered why busyness is so detrimental to our productivity, health and happiness. Now she’s bringing her proven solution for escaping the busyness trap to keynote stages around the world with her signature blend of humor, heart, and honesty. She is on a mission to help individuals and businesses move above the damaging false belief that “busy” always equates to success. With her help, people and organizations are unlocking peak performance, improving self-care, and finding true happiness, without sacrificing one for the other. Peggy has presented for small teams as well as Fortune 500 companies like Google, Bank of America, Blue Cross BlueShield, and Ingram Micro. In her forthcoming book “Beyond Busyness: How to Achieve More by Doing Less,” Peggy outlines her signature three-step "Busy Busting" methodology that is actionable, effective and has already helped thousands of people get off the busy treadmill to live the life they were meant to live.

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Some guests of the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it is not an endorsement or review of any kind. Today's featured author comes to us from bookstolifemarketing.co.uk with expert publishing to strategic marketing. They help authors reach their audience and maximize their book's success. Today we have an amazing young lady on the show. We're going to be talking about her books and some of the different work that she does as well as a speaker and author, et cetera, et cetera.

So we're going to get into it. Uh, we have Peggy Sullivan on the show. She's the author of her latest book to come out January 21st, 2025. It is called beyond busyness. How to achieve more by doing less. We're going to get into with her and all that good stuff and find out how to do more with less because, uh, so let's have just less. So out how to do more with less because some of us have just less. So we have to do more with it.

Some of us want more, but sometimes it just ends up being more. Peggy Sullivan is a dynamic speaker, leadership strategist and productivity expert with over 25 years of experience helping individuals and organizations drive meaningful, lasting change. She has held leadership roles at Fortune 100 and 500 companies, including Blue Cross, Blue Shield, UnitedHealthcare, Advanced Materials, leading teams across customer

service, marketing, sales, communications, and operations. She's a self-proclaimed busy-nose addict in recovery, and she now empowers professionals to escape time poverty and focus on what matters truly. She's the creator of the busy busting framework and she provides actionable strategies that help people achieve more by doing less productive, boosting production, health, engagement and connection. Welcome to the show. How are you Peggy?

I'm terrific. How are you? I am wonderful I'm terrific. How are you? I am wonderful. I am excellent doing my thing. So give us your dot coms where people can find you on the Interwebs. Yeah, I'm at Peggy Sullivan speaker dot com and under the same skew on LinkedIn, Instagram, so I'm easy to find. So give us a 30,000 overview of what's in your new book. Dr. Linn Yeah, you know, I spent most of my life chasing, chasing and chasing, trying to figure out how to raise that bar, how to do more, how

to become more, but I never quite got there. And so, my new book is really about learning how to achieve more by doing less and escaping something that I call time poverty. We all seem to love being busy. You ask people how you do it and they'll be like, I'm so busy. But nobody likes being time poor. And so, I've learned how to escape time poverty and have time for what's important through a process that's, it's worked for me, and it's worked for thousands of other people. Pete Slauson Well, that's great. You know, this, we all

kind of live through life and especially, I think, as you get older, things seem to move faster. And it's just, you know, time just blasts by you and sometimes, you know, you get to the end of the day and you're like, God, I wish I had more time today. I wish I had more stuff to get stuff done. And you know, sometimes there's factors where you can have brain fog or different things that affect you. I had some brain fog before getting on testosterone again two years ago and didn't realize I had brain fog until I got on testosterone. And I just felt like I was waking up out of bed and 10 minutes later I was crawling back into it

going, what the hell did I do today? I mean, there's a lot of signals of what I did all day, but still there was so much more I wanted to do. And being able to be present, be focused, et cetera, et cetera. What prompted you to want to write this book? Was there any certain, was a certain moment in time or an action that happened that was a cathartic moment for you? Yeah, I had a like a lot of wake up calls, but I think the wake up call that really resonated with me was one day I came home from work, I was a single mom. I was looking through the cupboards to find anything edible and I landed on a bag of stale pistachio nuts.

And I chopped them down happily until I kind of felt this pulling on my leg and I looked down and it was my cat, Dazzle, basically saying, mommy feed me, I haven't eaten. So I threw some kibbles into his dish and I fell asleep on the couch and I woke up to this like horrific gagging noise So I look up and it's my cat again dazzle and this time he's throwing up pistachio nuts I look down in my hand and I see remnants of cat food in my hand Well, I was a burnt out haze. I ate cat food without

realizing it and then I I ate cat food without realizing it. And then I started to realize that I was kind of going through life in a mindless haze and on autopilot and that I really needed to change that. Well, I only eat cat food on purpose. So I think I'm doing better, right? Is that how it works? Yeah. You know, the crazy thing for me was that I had this aha moment when I was eating it

I was thinking to myself gosh, these nuts are salty. They're stale I better get to the store and get some new ones, but I just kept on jumping I didn't I didn't look at my hand. I didn't you know have a wake-up call I just was on the autopilot trying to put something in my belly. That is just wild, wild. You're just like, well, you're going bad. So I'll just finish the bag so that I can kill it off and starting a new, uh, that is wild. But you know, I mean, we, we've all kind of done that. I, you know, I, I think one time I put the milk in the cupboard, you know,

I was making coffee or milk or something, and I put it in the cupboard instead of the refrigerator later found it. And I'm just like, well, that ended badly. It's probably not good. The, uh, but if I mixed it with some of the cat food, it wasn't too bad. Anyway, uh, so, you know, just example, now you, you, you title your book, you use the word busyness and it's spelled busy as in B U S Y and then N E S S. Tell us what beyond busyness, and it's spelled busy as in B-U-S-Y and then N-E-S-S. Tell us what beyond busyness means to you.

Dr. Lise Kroft It's this place where you have time for what's important. It's like a sweet spot where you get to the end of your day, you say, my cup is full, I accomplished what I want to, I had an intentional day, and that doesn't come easily. I mean, busyness is an addiction. An addiction is really anything where you don't do what you're supposed to be doing, want to be doing, need to be doing. You know, it's like a mosquito bite. You just got to itch it and it's just so compulsive.

And I think we all get caught in this state of busyness and we don't realize that we're just on this hamster wheel going round and round and round and round again. Pete Yeah. The hamster wheel of life, that will do it to us, most definitely. And what people go through, you know, we're, A lot of us are overwhelmed. There's a lot of stuff going on in our lives. And with time poverty, I guess a good explanation is we just never have enough time. Is that a good explanation for it? Yep. Okay. And can you share a few statistics from your workplace business report that you took and I guess drew up. Yeah, I'm a data geek. I love data and I think understanding data helps us solve problems.

So I do a lot of research and one thing I learned that I was not alone when it came to Busyness, 94% of the population is over the top busy, wants to be but doesn't know how now that in itself is what prompted my book but here's a couple of other statistics that kind of blow your mind 61% of the workforce does not have time to do their work because their schedules are so overstuffed so they get to the end of the day and it's like oh now it's time to work to really work and then the one, oh, now it's time to work, to really work. And then the one stat that gets me all the time and it's consistent year after year is 75% of the population does not have time for basic self care.

Like getting your teeth cleaned, eating a meal, getting a good night's sleep, the basics. All this busyness is it's just kind of self-sabotage. Peteus Yeah, it can be self-sabotaging, can it? Because we tend to sometimes get distracted. I know ADHD is one of my issues that I've had. So, you know, you get focused on, you know, one thing in a squirrel, you look over and you're chasing squirrels around and all that sort of stuff. So it's pretty interesting how we try and get through life. Now you talk about this being a very addictive process to take and have this busyness sort

of mindset. Why is it so addictive? I think normally when we think about addiction, we think about drugs or alcohol, but the American Psychiatric Society really says that addiction is anything that takes you away from what you need to be doing, want to be doing, should be doing, and you kind of can't help yourself. And I don't know about you, but I know a lot of people love checking the boxes, right? Get it done, cross it off the list. I got a friend who will just cross it off the list at the end of the day.

So she feels good and she knows her day is done, even though she adds something small to her list, just to have this sense of accomplishment. Yeah. It's, and sometimes, you know, sometimes we're just doing that, like you said, in a sabotage way where we really should focus on doing what we need to do as opposed to, you know, doing things that don't matter. You know, a long time ago, I learned from executives, I think it was an Apple executive or someone at Next or HP, but they talked about how you need to look at what you're doing and determine whether or not you should delegate it or whether you should be doing it yourself.

And you know your hourly worth and be like, is this what I'm doing right now making me the money that I need to make for my return on investment. How does our hustle society come along with this busyness and cause problems where, you know, you're a hustle culture, hustle society. How does this make the problem worse? Dr. Sarah Lichtenberger Yeah, our hustle society basically tells us busyness is good. It's a status symbol. It's a sign of importance. You have to wait six months to get into a doctor. He must be really good. You know, my next door neighbor, Harry, he leaves at 7 a.m.,

doesn't have dinner with his kids most of the time, but he's a rock star. He got promoted three times in the last year. You know, we just hustle, hustle, hustle. And I think the thing that we don't realize is that it has this ripple effect, not just on us and the stress and the overwhelm, but everybody around us,

because really our friends, our family, our colleagues, it affects them too. We don't have time for them. We're short with them. We're tense. We're not ourselves. And so, you know, busyness isn't this thing that we do on our own. It's kind of something that happens and has a ripple effect and not a good

one. But you talked about our hustle society and, you know, let's face it, we're always on. Whether it's always on media or interruptions. I mean, interruptions are crazy. The other day I was working on a spreadsheet and I was moving and grooving on it and feeling like I was getting something done and I hear a knock on my door and I'm thinking, my door is shut.

Okay, husband, come on in, what's going on? Why do you need to interrupt me? And he says, you know what? We have no ketchup. we have to have our burgers ketchup-less. And I'm thinking to myself, you interrupted me because we have no ketchup tonight. So I went back, I went back to what I was doing. And I paid this huge switching tax. You know, it takes a while when you're focused and you're really into something to move ahead to something else.

And I think there's just, and that's why I'm such a data geek about all of this, because, you know, when we multitask, it takes us three times as long. We have 2.5 as many mistakes. I mean, the stats are just so consistent that all of this hustle, all of this overwhelm, this time poverty is not getting us to a better place. It doesn't equate to success. Pete What is, you have something called the busy barometer. What is that?

And how can organizations use it? Julie Yeah, mostly when we're busy, we're busy on low-value things, and it's very habitual. We don't even realize we do it. And so I worked with some HR executives and some industrial psychologists to really understand what are the main busy traps. So when I go into an organization,

I can go in there from a place of knowledge and data and understand what their busy traps are. You know, one of the biggest ones is too many meetings, you see it all the time. And so what I love to do is really dig into a culture and find out what's going there. And that's what the busy barometer does. And oh, by the way, anybody can take it. It'll identify your, uh, low value activities and give you some suggestions on what to do. Yeah.

I'm known for sometimes midday looking for distraction and I'll, and I'll go play a video game. And there's like, and now I, you know, you can look at, I can look at my video games, they report to you how many hours you spent doing them. And it's like literally thousands of hours. And every time I see it, I kick myself. I'm like, dude, you know, any books you could have probably written in that time? Do you know how many better things you could have done that were profitable and useful? So true. And for me, like I do the busy barometer on a regular basis, just, you know, because my

habits change and what I gravitate towards change and it's really nice to have a tool to basically tell me you need more sleep, you're running on empty, you're not getting anything done because you're not sleeping or whatever it is, you know? Yeah, the, uh, with the busyness, how, how, what are some ways that we can combat this, uh, time poverty that we have or things that like, for example, you know, how do I find off that resistance to the, the, the urge to go, uh, distract myself and waste my time on something like gaming or something? Yeah. I, I developed a, a three step process that worked for me, the busy-ness addict in recovery, but he's also worked for other people and involves

three steps that are really micro steps. They're not major things. The first one is subtraction. It's about eliminating low value activity. So you have the time for what's important. If you spend too much time on low value activities, you get to the end of your day feeling, oops, time poor. The second one, I wrote my first book about the neuroscience of happiness. And when I wrote that, I learned that happiness,

people think happiness is a destination. It's a thing. I'm gonna be happy when I get the new job, when I get a promotion, when I get to the weekend. And we don't look at the micro moments, the small little things. And so what I discovered is that when you're happy, your brain lights up like a Christmas tree, and it sends neurotransmitters to your body, basically saying you're in a better mood, you have more energy, you're more charismatic, you can focus more,

you can live longer, fight off chronic disease. And so step two is all about happiness rituals, creating these tiny little things so that we can be happy throughout the day and really take advantage of those superpowers that happiness has. And then the third and final step, which I'm super passionate about

is what I call values vibing. It's about having a filter for what to say yes to and what to say no to. We usually use time management tools and, oh, by the way, $10 billion industry, but 94% of us don't have time for what's important. You know, what's wrong with that stat?

But values vibing is a way to use your values as a filter so you can figure out what's worthwhile in your time. And I've done a lot of research on what values make us feel like our cup is full at the end of the day. Values vibing. So on these three things of your busy busting framework, can you share a few case examples about the first one, subtract subtraction? Yeah, you know, when I think about subtraction, I think about a colleague of mine that worked at a large international bank. And from the outside, this guy was like living the storybook life.

You know the guy, he's got the beautiful family, he travels the world, and you're thinking everything is perfect. But really for Nick, on the inside, he was stressed, he was overwhelmed. And he was in a deep state of time poverty. So this little girl comes along six years old. And she says, Daddy, daddy, will you coach my soccer team? And he's thinking to himself, there is no way. How can I coach a soccer team? I have to leave work at 330 every day. I'm too busy for that. And then he realized that that was like a moment he wanted,

he really, really wanted to do that. So he had to lean into subtraction. And what he did was he realized that he spent a lot of time in the email rabbit hole, he had thousands of people reporting to him. His email rabbit hole was crazy. The average person spends, it looks at email 69 times a day. So I thought to himself, you know what, I head up this department, I'm going to have everybody rethink this whole process of writing an email. And we're going to say no more emails unless you get value or give value, just don't write them, they're taking up too much time. And he implemented that and it really took people a long time, but he ended up reducing emails in the department by 65%.

And then he took it one day further and he's like, okay, and I'm not gonna look at email 69 times a day, it's distracting, I'm not gonna look at email 69 times a day. It's distracting, I'm just gonna look at twice a day. And so for him, he ended up having an amazing summer. He bonded with his daughter. He coached the soccer team, but what also happened was he was a lot more productive at work. He was able to focus and do competitive studies and his performance

and his departmental performance went up a lot. And so that's a great example when we make room for what's important. Pete Yeah, we feel more fulfilled. It matters something more and I love that. So, using subtraction, you look at what you're doing, maybe throughout the day and eliminating low value transactions. And I think sometimes in these cases, do we get stuck in the dopamine of it? Like you mentioned that sometimes we need to look for in the values vibing for things that give us more fulfillment. Maybe, maybe that's, you know, more of what you want to look at too. And subtraction is what's, what am I just doing for cheap dopamine hits? Like maybe video gaming or I don't

know. Like recently I've had to spend more time with my dog since our other dog passed and I've been having to go out three times a day to play with her in the arch. She's a Husky with a lot of energy. And, um, well, it, it seems like it's work and busy work because you know, it doesn't do much for me. It actually does do a lot for me. And the more I started doing it, the more I realized that, Hey, you know what? This is probably important, more important than maybe the video gaming or I don't know, going and watching some stupid video on Tik TOK or something. Yeah. It's like pressing the reset button. You have an opportunity to just regroup and

refresh and then you can go back at it with much more focus and intention. Can you share some case studies on the second part of your busy busing framework, the mojo making? How do we make more mojo? Yeah, I know I do it personally. For me, I eat dark chocolate every day at 11 a.m. no matter where in the world Peggy Sullivan is. I will open up a piece of dark chocolate, I will smell it, I will close my eyes and I will taste it in just three minutes and I just feel recharged. But the story about it in the workplace, you know, I started doing these happiness rituals and it was just something that I did. And I thought, what the heck? Let's bring it into the workplace.

And I worked at United Health Care and managed pretty large department of customer service reps. And customer service is hard on a good day. And it's just a really hard thing to do. And I kept on thinking, what if we did happiness rituals in the workplace? So we brought them into United Healthcare twice a day. We did cubicle dance parties. Sometimes we sang happy birthday dance parties, you know, sometimes we sang happy birthday, sometimes we told jokes, but the rule was it couldn't be more than three

or four minutes and only twice a day. And it was crazy because their first call resolution, which is a service metric, went up, it improved 23% in six weeks. And so it just, for me, reaffirmed that when we take these little micro moments to just get out of our own head and to laugh and to have fun and just to enjoy life, that we're just a lot more productive.

Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, sometimes breaking out of the monotony, getting the blood flowing, moving around, you know, I like that sort of thing that you had got going on there. What are some examples of values vibing from your case studies you can share with us? Maybe you give people a better idea. Yeah, you know, I think after COVID, we all kind of got caught in this,

I can do it electronically mindset. And the loneliness epidemic that's going on is really real, but a lot of times in work, we're hustling, we're focusing on our work, and we're not connecting with human beings. So I had a friend, Randy, who was a colleague at Blue Cross and Blue Shield. And he was working on a big project one day and it was in Buffalo, New York.

And he pulled his staff in and said, oh, we got to all crank and burn on this. I'm not getting it done. It has to be good. And we've got to do this. And next thing he knows, the security guard comes in and says, you know, there's a snowstorm out there. There's a travel ban. Nobody's going anywhere. And he's thinking to himself, this is great. We'll get this project done. This is awesome. And then he gets real and he looks around the room. And he realizes

everybody's exhausted. And then he has this even bigger aha moment is that his relationships with his employees were transactional. He didn't really know them. And so what he decided to do instead of doing that project, he just decided to spend time with his people and find out more about them what they love what they didn't love what they liked at work, just more about them, what they love, what they didn't love, what they liked at work, just more about them as people. And he made connection with everybody and he noticed his department was running real smooth

after that, but he had always dreaded doing employee engagement studies because he was the bottom of the barrel. He worked in sales and marketing and that's a stressful job. But for him, what he noticed is that employee engagement got a lot better because people were working together, they were, they were trusting each other, and they were supporting each other. And so human connection is such an important value that we all need to make sure we have in our day. Pete Slauson Definitely. You know, the more help we can get, the more help we need through some of our days that we have and how it works. So, tell us about you growing up. What motivated you? What influenced you? How did you become a speaker, an author, doing the things that you do to help other people be better?

KB Yeah, my dad came over to America. He was a Holocaust survivor. And so I grew up with this work ethic, eat, work, sleep, repeat. And I saw it in my father and I saw how he, you know, was so focused on providing for him, providing for his parents. And that was all I knew. And so I thought that was the way to be, you know, I could tell my dad's mood by the way the garage door went up every night, I swear, it would like go up so quickly. And I would know dad's in a rotten mood. It's eight o'clock. But, um, you know, I kind of grew up in this environment where raise the bar, raise the bar, raise the bar, good is not good enough. And I just continued with that. And kind of was this overachiever and kept on trying

to do hard things and hard things gave me a lot of joy. And so I do harder things and it gave me more joy. And then I got to the point where it was like, what are you doing? You've done a lot of hard things. You got through them. And then my dad, he got really sick and I decided to quit my job, take care of him. And it really made me think about my legacy and what the rest of my life would look like. And much more importantly, what could I do to make the world a better

place? And that's when I got obsessed with this thing called time poverty. I started a nonprofit, and the nonprofit was focused on helping people with their challenges. So I'd ask every year, every month, what are your biggest challenges? People would tell me I don't have time for what's important. So I figured if I can solve for that, if I can figure that out, boy, that will be a beautiful gift. I can leave the world. And so 10 years later, after trying a lot of different things, it's what I'm passionate about, and it's what I love doing. And oh, by the way, personally, I'm happier,

I'm healthier. I spend time doing the things that I love, and they light me up, and life is just, it's just a whole bunch better. Pete Well, you found your purpose then. So, tell us about some of the other offerings you have on your website, some of the other things you do that maybe people out there might need some help with from you. Dr. Sarah Larson Yeah, absolutely. I'm a keynote speaker, so I get up in front of people. I recently did a TED Talk and that was a whole bunch of fun. I didn't know. I speak all the time. I didn't know how nervous I would get doing a Ted talk. Fright and fear is real, but I feel really

good because I overcame it. Last minute before I got on stage, I ended up doing a handstand just to get my body going. People like, what are you doing? I said, I want to take my mind off speaking in front of all these people. But I coach people on how to achieve more by doing less. I do a lot of workshops. I go into organizations and help their leadership teams lead more effectively and really just get more engagement

because let's face it, our world is not engaged and people aren't loving what they're doing. And a lot of that I think is the way we present it and it has to be different. We have to be doing differently. So that's basically me and how I grew up, an overachiever, setting the bar, raising the bar, setting the bar, raising the bar. Pete Well, it sounds like, you know, you saw, you know, what your father was teaching you

just to kind of do that grind and you're like, there's, you know, there's got to be a better way. And it looks like you found it and now you're helping others find it. What are some prospective clients that might be out there listening on LinkedIn or other places? You know, what, what, what, who's your perfect client, your prospective client that you're targeting, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. The funny thing is everybody in the world is over the top busy and

doesn't have time for what's important. Um, I love working in the corporate world because, let's face it, people are bottom line oriented. And so, if we can help organizations spend time on what matters and what's profitable, then they become more profitable and they get to focus on their people and their people become more engaged. I love doing a lot of purpose driven leadership.

You know, our generations are a little lost. They don't feel like anybody values what they value. And so that's another way of getting corporate America in tow. But I'm also really big in the nonprofit world. I ran a nonprofit for a very long time and right now I'm very active with the American Heart Association because at age 40, all my hustle, I had a mild stress-related heart attack. So I'm very passionate about, you know, making sure people are taking care of themselves. Pete Yeah. Well, this is another reason to not be engaged in too much of that busyness

because it can affect your health and longevity. Julie Absolutely. Your mental health and your physical health. Pete Yeah. We need all the help we can get, some of us, especially me. Julie I think you're doing great. I'm hanging in there. I'm hanging in there. Yeah. So at one day at a time is how we take it. We try and stay present. Would you say a lot of the beyond busyness stuff that you're talking about

is kind of that, is kind of trying to stay present in the day, trying to stay, you know, focused on what's before us and, you know, changing the here and now and the present. you know, focused on what's before us and, you know, changing the here and now and the present. Yeah, I mean, it is about being present, but it's also about micro steps. You know, we're always looking for big change and big things, but big things are hard. And so if you think about it, just as you know, what is one thing I can subtract? What is one mojo making, one happiness ritual I can add? What's one value that I can lean into a little bit more? It gets to be doable. And then you see the progress and you're like, holy cow,

I want to drink more of this water. It's working really well for me. So I know for me, it's about really valuing the present, but also valuing the beauty in micro steps for macro results. As we go out, anything more we need to talk about or promote while we're here. I have a new book. Like we said, I'd love for people to check it out or to have me speak or coach or any of those good things. I'm really passionate

about all of the above. Life is too short to not spend it on what truly matters and gives us joy. Pete Well, thank you very much for coming to the show. Give us your dot coms as we go out. Yep. Peggy Sullivan speaker.com. LinkedIn Peggy Sullivan speaker and Instagram Peggy Sullivan speaker. So I guess I'm that Peggy Sullivan speaker person. There you go. You got it down. So Peggy, thank you very much for coming to the show. We really appreciate it.

Oh, I thank you for having me. This was a blast. You're a great person to have conversation with. Pete Thank you. I've done one or two of these. Peggy Yeah. Pete Order Peggy's book, wherever fine books are sold folks. Beyond Busyness, How to Achieve More by Doing Less, something we all need to do and avoid and get rid of the time wasters in our lives because that's, you you know, there's, there's all sorts of stupid stuff. My, one of my biggest time wasters

is doom scrolling through Tik Tok and I got to learn to knock that off because it's such a bad habit. Anyway, guys, thanks for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com, Forchess, Chris Foss, LinkedIn.com, Forchess, Chris Foss, Chris Foss, One in the Tik Tok and all those crazy places in it. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you guys next time. And that should have a.