The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Blanca Cobb, M.S. Psy, Body Language Expert & Media, How To Know When Someone Is Lying

Episode Date: April 3, 2021

Blanca Cobb, M.S. Psy, Body Language Expert & Media, How To Know When Someone Is Lying

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain now here's your host chris voss hi folks chris voss here from the chris voss show.com the chris voss show.com hey we're coming here with another podcast we certainly appreciate you guys tuning in be sure to hit those likes subscribe to us on youtube hit the bell notification button they got this free service over there on the youtube the kids

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She's a returning guest on this show. I think we are a robe when she hits five returning guests, but she's a returning guest. I feel like I'm doing Jeopardy. Returning guest on the Chris Voss Show. Blanca Cobb is with us. She did a show previously with us where we talked about body language but blanca welcome to the chris voss show how art thou thank you i am fantastic

thank you for having me again it's an honor to be here thank you sorry for that intro it's a little bland a little the coffee will kick in here in a second i thought it was a great intro what do i know oh we're working on it take in Give us a bio and your.com so people can learn more about you on the interwebbage. Sure. I'm an internationally recognized body language expert, and I've been on a lot of TV shows for the past eight years or so where I'm talking about body language and dating and romance or body language, how to use it, how to understand it, and also figuring out when someone is lying to you. And I've been on big shows like the Steve Harvey show, the Today Show, Megyn Kelly Today, The Doctors, Dr. Oz, and Dr. Drew,

just to name a few. That's a lot of doctors. Yeah, I guess it is. That is a lot of doctors. I don't really have anything else to build on that except just to make that clarification that there is a lot of doctors on that list. So we were going to talk. We talked to your last show and it was really brilliant.

People can go back and listen to it, watch it on YouTube.com. Press that bell button to get that whole feeling thing I described earlier. And you helped me actually pay more attention to how I'm doing when I actually move my camera around so I can try and look at people. Sometimes it doesn't work because it's the Zoom look. Somebody needs to come up with a term for that. But I try and make it look like I'm looking at them. So I've got, like, usually a person's here, and then here's the camera. And so I try and make it focus.

But sometimes it is hard because you look at – I like to look at faces and into eyes. Sure. Because then I can really see the winners of this role, see if they're lying to me. I'm just kidding. So we want to talk today about role, see if they're lying to me. So we want to talk today about, tell us what we're about to talk about. We're going to talk about lying, why people lie. And then what do you do if somebody's lying and how do you figure out, is it possible to figure out? Is there one tell or is there more than one tell to figure out if somebody's lying to you?

It's a really hot topic. Is lying a thing in life? Are there a lot of people lie yes yes and it's all how you define lying because and the reason i say this so before everyone starts laughing at me the reason i'm saying that is because some lies are not all bad the social lies the white lies that kind of help us with friendships and getting out of some situations for example do you really need to tell your mother that her pot roast sucks? No. Like seriously, what good is that going to do

for the relationship? And then if you think about societal lies, think about the holidays and there's a certain jolly old St. Nick or the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy. So some lies, my point is some lies are just not that bad. The bad ones are like, I call them the detonators. Like you drop it and it explodes everything.

It can destroy businesses and families and relationships. And people go broke. Think about the burning Madoffs of the world. It's just, you have some of those detonating lies. And that's what I really like to talk about. It's because sometimes people don't know what to look for in lies. And it's always a hot topic like i said let's start with the let's walk down a pathway here if we will and let me just make a note here note to

self quit selling mom her pot roast is garbage so there's that there's that i hope she'll forgive me because yeah so there's like little white lies that people tell. And our white lies are the little lies like you mentioned before, those lies like when your significant other says to you, these pants look, my butt look big, and you have to find the right answer, which is never the right answer because there is no right answer to that question. We all know it's going to be probably a little white lie, and she or he or a significant other may know that's a little, a little white lie, but isn't don't let a white lies lead us down the pathway of good intentions to the big lie.

They can't, they have to be careful with that. So a white lie, that's really going to make somebody feel good. Maybe the truth is that the pants, they don't like the way the pants look, but you can find something positive in it. Or, or seriously, if you know that you say, you know, really, they're not flattering, then you know, you're gonna be sleeping on the couch by yourself tonight. So you pick and choose what you're going to say. What gets people in trouble is when they end up lying for no reason at all. I think that's the song lyric. But I think when people lie for no reason at all, and then it just becomes habit. It's like, why are you going to lie about the small stuff?

For example, what did you do with my car keys? I don't know. Okay, but you just saw them move them, but they're telling you they don't know what they did with the car keys. So that's a silly example, but I illustrate that silly example to let you know people lie about nothing, that they shouldn't be. Why don't you just tell them the truth that you didn't want to talk to them instead of that you were taking a shower whatever the situation is easier just to say i don't really give a fuck about you or your keys why don't you go fuck off and uh that's my seventh divorce damn it again wow the and when people tell these lies you're right there are people that narcissists, make lying a sport.

Like it's just a sport. And there's some politicians too that do it. And they do it just to do it. But like we talked about before the show, I've seen people that there's an interweb they're building or a network or a house of cards that they're building where just one lie begets another lie that begets another lie. And literally, I used to look at the arc of some of my friends little stacks and i'd be like if i take that card out there and i argue with you and we prove that's a lie like everything else about your life falls apart like you just you're crazy man you bring up a really good point because when you get caught in one big lie then people start questioning everything that has ever happened since the beginning of time that involves you. Because then they start like they're inspecting it.

They're like Inspector Gadget. They're the detective. They're trying to pick apart everything. And it's really it's not good. It just causes a lot of problems. But some of the reasons that people lie is not only because they want to make somebody feel good, but they also want to protect themselves. They don't want to get in trouble. They don't want to start trouble.

Sometimes it's easier to say a small lie than to get into this whole conversation about something that isn't important to them. People lie because they don't want to get caught. We all know that one. Even young children do that. They don't want to tell mommy that they got into the cookie jar before dinner, even though they have chocolate chips. Everybody does it. They just change the lie over time. So that's me.

I'm usually like munching on the cookies and the crumbs are falling out of my mouth. They're like, do you get in the cookie jar? No, I'm not. No, I don't know what you're talking about. The dogs are in it. Yeah, the dogs. But I imagine sometimes I think in my analogy and you're a professional i'm not but i've seen a few lies in my day my analogy is is sometimes it's almost like laziness it's more work to tell

the truth like a lot of reasons like you cited but for some people it's just like a longer explanation and you're just like it's easier just say just say, I don't know, and do the whole thing. Like one of the things we had at my companies was the unanswered question is the unanswered question. The unanswered question is the, now I can't remember it. I'm like George, I'm becoming George Bush Jr. in my old age. The only wrong question is the unanswered question. I think is it was something along those lines, but basically it was to encourage people to ask questions. And a lot of people just lie. And you'd say, do you understand how to do the work? You just went through training. Do you understand what to do? And then, yes, I do. I understand everything. And they go on whatever they go on and they burn down half your

company because they don't follow the training. And you're just like, wait, I thought you said you knew that. And they're like, well, it's too complex to, to explain to you, Chris, I need to redo the training. And you're like, great. I didn't need that a hundred grand at all. So we'll just rebuild whatever that was you destroyed. But yeah, the one thing we learned is the, the one person who never doesn't ask the honest question is the most dangerous, but let me interrupt you right there because you did something that is perfecting it. I'm sure you don't even realize it. So earlier when you were given this example, you said, do you understand the training? You're like, yep, I understand the training. So I'm paraphrasing there, but you notice the incongruency. Yeah. When you're shaking

your head, no, but you're saying, yes, I understand something. And that, when you see that, because it happens a lot with people, then you need to question yourself like, wait, what did I just see? Does he, or does he not understand? And so in a situation like that, then you need to question yourself like, wait, what did I just see? Does he or does he not understand? And so in a situation like that, I would just tell people to ask again, but it's all in how you ask. That was really interesting because I didn't think about that,

but I don't spend a lot of time watching me, but I probably should. I can't see myself on the screen. So yeah, it was weird that I did that, huh? I shook my head. There's the tell, as they like to call it. All tells are different for people. One common misconception, yes, is that you can easily figure out when somebody's lying. And it's not that easy. There's an art and science to it. This is how I

explain to people and to my clients. If it were that easy to figure out when somebody's lying, when someone is lying, then there wouldn't be a need for the Innocence Project. Innocent people wouldn't be going to jail for a crime they didn't commit. There wouldn't be such a high false confession rate if it was easy to see through a lie, because then that means the investigators, the attorneys, the judges would be able to see right through it. So it isn't that easy. And you can't get a sense politicians would actually do what they say they'll do get jobs and fix things like but they lie every time it's really weird too how we have that in our in our society where

we expect to be lied to by politicians and when they lie to us we go yeah that's fine sure what the hell i don't know what that has to do with anything but i thought it means a social statement that means nothing because what you're saying though holds true for a lot of people a lot of people when they think of politics they think of liars there are a lot of promises that are said but not completed they're not acted on so how do we tell who's lying to us? And then we'll talk about what we should do about it maybe. Yeah. So when you have a sense that someone's lying to you, you don't want to make an automatic assumption that they are. What happens a lot of times is whatever

baggage you have, whatever experiences you've had with somebody else in the past, you take it and you put it on the next person and it isn't fair and it isn't right. And it isn't just, but it's what I tell people. Okay. Maybe for some people, but you start by figuring out what somebody's baseline behavior is. So this is how they typically present themselves, how they typically answer questions, how, what makes them. So for for example i tend to be a little animated when i talk and i talk with my hand because i'm animated and i talk with my hands and i change my tone of voice and all that it is that i do when you notice a difference then it'd be like wait something's up with blanca but here's the deal you don't know what is up with me. So that's, what's really important. So if I were to ask you, if you think about somebody who you spent a lot of time with, how do you know that person's pissed?

I bet you could sit here and give me a couple of nonverbal cues that you've noticed that indicates to you that they're pissed. Would you believe that? Folding their arms? Yep. For some people, it can be, some people can fold their arms other people can get quiet absolutely some people the jaw will twitch others will look away some people might snicker so there isn't just one way but the point is you're paying attention so you get a sense of how they are when there's a change in that behavior that's your aha moment but that's where you have to ask questions to find out what's really going on. So that's one of the first steps in trying to figure out when something isn't right. But keep this in mind.

Someone might show a shift in behavior, not because they're lying, but because maybe it's triggering a memory for them of something that they don't like or something they haven't thought of in a long time. Or maybe they heard a news story. So that's why you have to be very careful in not making assumptions. Yeah. The people I'm around a lot to let me know when they're pissed in a long time, or maybe they heard a news story. So that's why you have to be very careful and not making assumptions. Yeah. The people I'm around a lot to let me know when they're pissed off is using my two Huskies. So they either pee on the floor or they choose something. They're pretty good though. They don't do that anymore, but they usually let me know. They just give me that look like we probably eat you in your sleep or else.

That's hysterical. But see what you've done. If you studied your dogs and baseline behavior when they're upset. And that's it. That's a really good example. Yeah. I usually wake up and there's like a face in my nose and it's like looking at me, my big Siberian shadow. She used to come up to me and sleep and she'd just get like right in

your face and just sit there until you woke up and it was quite hard i think so i'd be like wait what well she'd be in the she'd be in the dark and black and white but this is nothing about lying so i don't know i'm talking it's baseline behavior what she does what she typically does that's what we're talking about i she didn't really do that i'm clearly oh now now you're pulling my leg no i don't she really did that, I don't know. I'm just making fodder really at this point. So when you listen to people's words, we listen to people's words. So you can get a sense of their baseline behavior and then you ask questions, right? You want to see if what you're seeing is real or not, because we're not robotic, which means we're going to

flicker and move and whatever as we're talking. So you have to be careful with that. But listening to what somebody says. So if they're telling you a story about something that happened in the past tense, whether it was five days ago, or five years ago, the verb tense should be what in the past tense, if they're telling you a story that's in the past tense, but they're using present tense, that should give you pause because what's that telling you is that they're creating it in the moment. So more than likely, that's not a true story. That's a perfect example. Yeah.

Yeah. So they're trying to think of somebody that does that. I don't know. People who initially get busted and they're trying to figure up figure out what to say okay oh so they're making up a story to fill in what they're missing to say okay now i'm gonna start watching some more politicians i guess lately this politician thing they're the easiest guys to watch for lives i i used to have a real problem with gaslighting i still do i don't like it i what am i like maybe it's really good that i don't like being gaslit like i i used to be really bad with my temper if people gaslit to me and lied to me and fuck with me or manipulated me that that didn't

end well like i got just a little too angry back in those days and i've since uh mellowed in my old age but that could be a lie. Judge polygraph. No, I've actually milled in my own. I just getting too old to fire up the blood pressure, like fire up the heart that much anymore. Dude, you got to calm down because you're going to, you're going to have a heart attack, but no, it's when people gaslight me, they lie to you. That's they are.

They're challenging your reality, your sense of reality, your sense of what happened. They're telling you that you're nuts. You're crazy, and that's not possible, what you're saying. Yeah. And see, here's the thing. I know I'm nuts, and I know I'm crazy, but I know what the truth is. There you go. I'm putting that on the shirt. You can order that.

You can order that. ChrisVoss.com. Crazy. Or the ChrisVossShow.com. That's going to be the new Chris Voss slogan. He's crazy. He's nuts. But it's the truth. show. That's going to be the new Chris Voss slogan. He's crazy. He's nuts, but it's the truth.

That worked pretty good, didn't it? Yeah. That was an accident. I like that. That is a shirt. So back to our topic again about, let me interrupt you for just a second.

Earlier, you talked about being angry and that made me think that's another reason why some people will lie. If they feel they can't tell you the truth because you can't handle the truth because you're going to get angry. It is so much easier to say, I don't know. Don't remember not having this conversation.

See ya. I like getting angry. I used to get so fired up when people fuck with me. I want to know what did that do for you? I'm the nicest guy in the world but if people are like the angriest nicest guy in the world is that what you're telling me you got to keep a balance be nice to the nice people you're viciously fucking mean to the mean people those are the two rules the chris was rules be nice to the nice people don't hurt the nice people the nice people a lot of people in life i don't want to go off this segue but a lot of

people in life they don't separate the mean people the vicious people from the nice people. A lot of people in life, I don't want to go off of this segue, but a lot of people in life, they don't separate the mean people, the vicious people from the nice people. And they just go and be shitty to everybody. And that's why there's the Chris Voss rule. Nice to the nice people, be viciously mean to the mean people. And what's nice is I have to save up all that niceness to the nice people, even though sometimes I may not feel like being nice and I'll have to, okay, I gotta be nice. There's a lot of niceness going on right now. And I really would like to, it's been a week since I've taken someone's head off. And then you meet that one person that just, you know, decides to poke at you with a little barbecue stick.

And you're just like, oh, thank God you're here. I've been just waiting for you. And I don't know. Your story, do you know what it reminds me of? Dexter. Did you ever see that show, Dexter? I'm a serial killer now? No, because he only took out the bad people.

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. That's what your story reminded me of. He would only kill the bad people who got away with murder. That's the real thing in life. I learned that by antithesis through someone who I was related to. And they taught me you you be nice to the nice people and the people who love you the people will love you you take care of the people you love you but the people who people are mean and people lie to you you got to be like hey man do i knock it off but no i usually i like calling that shit out because that's because i'm just waiting for somebody to be a shithead because

i'm like oh yeah i get to do my thing no i have issues can you tell yeah yeah well i think we all know that just a little couple but i think you ham it up just because we're on your show i did i gotta bury the body though later from the mailman so once we're done with the show i gotta go deal with all that i'm assuming your dogs right They can help you dig. Yeah, they dig. I've taught them. I give them a bone or two off the leg of the UPS man. And UPS is always nice.

It's going to be the U.S. Postal Service person. That's the person I'm going with first. That's my thing, Judge. Anyway, I'm sorry. I've segued way off your lying context. So let's get back to that. But it was funny. It is funny. We know a lot of people always

want to figure out if somebody's lying to them. But what's interesting is that some people, after they find out the truth, they do nothing with the truth. And it's a head scratcher for me because I'm wondering, why do you even want to know if somebody's lying if you're not going to do anything about it? So what if it's confirmed? Now you've brought a down point of emotions on you where you feel like you can't trust your partner or whoever it is you're questioning, but you do nothing with that information. To me, it's better to not know if you're not going to do anything with it. So it seems to me, and we talked before the show about how a lot of my married couple friends, I've been divorced six or seven times. I really haven't. That's just a joke. I've never been married. I've always been really happy

and never got tired of it. So I just never settled down. And, uh, but a few of my friends, they got tired of being happy. They got married and there's a lot, there's a lot of lying that goes on in some of these relationships. at what point you know what you said earlier about how people tell lies and then they you don't call them or not you specifically people and call them out on them and then they stack and then you kind of you start looking at person like this person's a motherfucking liar and you start hating them or resenting them or thinking about putting a pill over their face at night when they're asleep. Stuff like that. Or even in the backyard, feeding a body, one of the dogs.

We've all been there. Nobody else wants to admit it. That's the problem. You're just bold enough to admit it. Well, it's deflection. See, what I'm doing is I'm accusing other people doing it. It's kind of like that Jackson guy. I'm accusing other people of doing it.

And then you'll be like, Chris is always talking about someone else doing it. Clearly, it would never be him that's right he's not projecting how he feels on other people yeah note to self blanca has accused me of being dexter she has a perception that i'm a serial killer so we're telling serial killer jokes to her so there's that but no for the record i loved dexter the character and loved the show yeah note to self keep an eye on blanca she's had way too much training on serial killer and how to hide a body in plastic and blood see i'm not a blood person so i can't deal with i think i tried to watch dexter one time and that's just anything that's got that much red not for chris voss no not for me but uh so should you call people out on lies then like you were saying when people lie should Anything that's got that much red, not for Chris Voss. No, not for me. I love you, Michelle.

So should you call people out on lies then? Like you were saying, when people lie, should you go, hey, man, that right there, that's a lie? Not necessarily. Particularly if you know that they're lying, you get a sense that they're lying, but you really want for them to tell you the truth. It's not a good idea to call them out. I'm going to give you a good example. If you think about sales professionals when they're talking to prospective customers, these objections, aka lies, there's no point you as a sales professional to call out a customer and say, you know what?

I think you're lying to me right now. No, what's it going to do? There's no business means no money. No money means bankruptcy. So that's not what you're going to do. Instead, you use that information and figure out, okay, they didn't feel comfortable telling me X, Y, and Z, but I'm getting the sense that they're not liking something. How can you as a sales professional flip that script where they feel understood, right?

The silent message understood, and then you change it for them. Now that's the way to make someone like you and trust you and want to do business with you. That's a very interesting topic. I like that. That's a good training tool for sales and stuff. Would it also a good way to do that? Would it be like you just look at somebody when they're lying to you and you go, is that your final answer? You could.

That's what I'm going to start doing. You could have fun with it. Next time in a relationship, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to be like, so I'm going to be like that dude on what's on you want to be a millionaire i'll be like so is that your final answer do you do you want to call in uh do you want to call in a lifeline lifeline for that uh thing this is your you're going with that you're going with that and i'll just give them what the eye is but i'm gonna make it up someday but you make it playful and it just depends on what your ultimate goal is and letting somebody know that they're lying sometimes it's better just to keep that information

to yourself to see if it's a pattern particularly with parents and their teenage kids you want to you jump in and you save your kids or you just, all right, I'm getting the sense that maybe they did take the 20 off of the dresser, but I'm just going to watch, just watch and see. So sometimes there can be some learning lessons in life that you might want to use. I know a lot of times when spouses, they don't trust each other,

whether it's they're not paying the rent or they're, I don't know, doing drugs or perhaps they're not paying the rent or they're i don't know doing drugs or perhaps they're stepping out you describing all my private six my previous six marriages have you been reading my divorce degrees now that you mention it damn it oh eight of them eight of them oh yeah six eight see i'm always lying about that but you did something that an honest person does, and so that truly was a little test for you. What a majority of time happens, when someone's being honest,

they'll correct misinformation. Oh. A liar tends not to correct information. They want, you believe that's on you. That is your responsibility. And if you're going to go with it, you're not going to call me on it, then, hey, I'm good. Okay. That's a little trick right there for everybody. I gotta, I gotta come back

to that and remember that show because basically I'm reverse engineering the show on how to be a better liar. So that's what I'm doing. So I think another way to, when you catch somebody lying, here's how you deal with it. You put the flashlight up to their face and like, you hit them with the phone book a couple of times, just like the cops do in the New York City. Oh boy. The New York City thing. Those of you will have to watch that on YouTube if you want to see what I just did there. But yeah, you just shine the light in their face. You hold that thing, you put them at the steel desk there, maybe handcuff them to the desk. And you're like, is that your final answer? You come at this from an aggressive standpoint i'm like

watch what you say think about the intention you're the beauty i'm the beast i just i'm a bull in a china shop so that's how i'm gonna handle it you're just like look at their cues and then just still be nice to them and i'm like fuck him hit him in the head i don't know we. I don't know. We approach. I don't know. There's more than one way to solve a problem, right? There is.

There's more than one way to cross that finish line. That's what I always tell the judge. Anyway. He doesn't believe me. But there's that. So what else have we covered in this understanding lying more? Maybe some other tips that people can use to figure out if somebody's lying to them. So we talked about the tenses, right?

If something happened in the past, you want to make sure you're listening to, or they're saying past tense, using past tense verbs. But then also whether someone accepts responsibility. And so what I mean by this is we use the personal pronoun I because we did something and we're claiming ownership of it. I got up at five o'clock in the morning. Then I went to the gym, came home. I took a shower, got ready and went to work. So what are you hearing there?

You're hearing I. It's very different than got up at five, hit the gym, took a shower, went to work. What are you missing? You're missing that personal pronoun I. When you're not hearing those pronouns, you have to stop and ask yourself, hey, what's happening? What gets people into trouble when they're trying to figure out if

someone's lying to them is that you put your own spin on it. You put your own interpretation on what they're saying instead of actually listening to the words that come out of their mouth. And then when you finally figure out they're lying to you, it's like, how did this happen? How did I not catch it? How could I be so stupid? Sometimes, though, I will say there are super slick liars out there. Super slick. But then other times it's because you're really not paying attention to what's in front of you.

And that's how you miss the cues. The slick liars I always get. The better the silver tongue, the better the story, the slicker the story. I always get those things. What does that mean, silver tongue? Silver tongue, it's where you just have this real this real you can really you can lie like really well at least that's what i think it means i don't know you just have this silver tongue that just can speak all the right words those are usually the guy a lot of guys are in text messaging girls and they're

sitting down writing fucking poems and scraping shit off the internet so they can say the perfect things a lot of scam artists have that that silver tongue because they know the way to spin you to get you to buy into, like we mentioned the Bernie Madoff stuff and things. They know exactly how to just give you, you'll hear people, they'll say, well, it was so good. The story was so good. One thing that's interesting to me about all of my business life that I've always seen is I'll meet these people. And I got ripped off once. I listened to this silver tongue dude and he told me a story and ripped me off. And so now I'm really careful about who rips me off. And I've heard that with relationships and a lot of times with sales and business, sometimes with our companies. And then later you'd sell them, you'd be honest

with them, sell them your product and stuff. And they'd be like, I don't trust you. I'm going someplace else and then later on we'd follow up with them or something right here from later sometimes in a mortgage business we like a year later they come back with whatever they went off and got from a competitor to be refinanced and i'd be like holy shit you got put like over a barrel you got like an extra four percent of your interest rate and three times the fees we charge what what the hell was going on and they're like really because they just really had a better story than you and i'm like and that's always jacked me all through my life through relationships the silver tongues will always

beat me out because they've just got that thing and a lot of liars they practice a lot like we talked about before the show some of my pathological narcissistic liar friends, and they practice the lie a lot. Like my one friend, he would tell you almost, it was like almost a schedule where he would go through all of his set of lies and they're all interconnected. And so if he started about whatever segment of the house of cards, he had to start going through the flow and stuff. And you just be like, you're practicing, aren't you?

You're like, the story keeps getting better as you go along so that's a good point you bring up because sometimes what the liar will do is they'll test you exactly what you're saying they're going to see what your response is they're going to read your facial expressions look at your manners and see if you're buying it or not and depending if you're an easy sell then it makes it easier for them to con you and if you're a harder sell because you have looked at skepticism on your face or you're an easy sell, then it makes it easier for them to con you. And if you're a harder sell because you have skepticism on your face or you're asking them a lot of questions, then they might back off. Because here's the deal. Most liars don't want to get caught. That's why they're lying.

That's why they're hiding the truth. Yeah. Did I lie when I said that? I'm not sure. Blanca's watching me. Fuck. I pulled up silver tongue, a tendency to be eloquent and persuasive in speaking. So it's where people just have that really good delivery.

And since I'm always, since I'm always honest and then I don't really give a shit, that's part of my problem. Like I just, I'm just like, look, here's the honest fucking truth. If you want it, if you don't, I'm just like, look, here's the honest fucking truth. If you want it, if you don't, I got shit to do, man. I don't have time for this, whatever bullshit dance you want to play. If you want to get lied to, and you're going to get the silver tongue and you want Bernie Madoff to come off the mountain and be like, we'll get you 55% return every month on your plan or whatever the hell it is. You know, I mean, there's some people that are really good at that.

And I've hired salespeople that they're pretty good at. I remember walking by one of my top sales guys one time and he's, I think he was like 33 ish or he's somewhere in his mid thirties or something. And he's talking to one of our clients on the thing and he goes, you're 50. I'm 52. I'm just like you were in the same thing. And I was like, I pulled him aside after and I'm like, dude, I understand what you're doing. You're trying to get rapport, but please don't let our clients, man, because he's going to come to the office. He's going to find out you're not 52. And I'm not sure I went far with him because he was kind of, he was a top sales cat and there's always a little bit of fluffiness with their silver tongues. But hence that's, it's really interesting. Anyway, I think what i'm trying to say is sometimes

the honest people they just give it they just deliver it and it's not maybe as eloquent or fluffy or it's got the build on it that a lot of people like and they go for the build but then that's the bait and switch or the tease or whatever you want to call it there you go so i don't know i don't know what that has to do with anything really dumb ass stories that needs to get in a book somewhere so i can quit telling the story i think that's half the reason i tell my stories trying to remember a lot of them because there's like four books there especially the employee stories so it is interesting people to me there's a difference so when i meet somebody and I'm just getting a straight from them and it's not fluffy and eloquent and built up and stuff, and it sounds like they went to public school like I

did, then I tend to believe them more. But when there's a lot of effort being put into it and a lot of grandiose, I think that's the word I'm looking for, grandiose, a grandiosity to it, then you're, wait, this seems too good to be true. You're saying I get real estate after I die, but I give you money now? I don't know. Anyway. You do have to make sure that what somebody's telling you makes sense. Yeah, that's my problem. There's no Pinocchio effect, right?

The nose is going to grow when you lie. Because all of us wouldn't be able to fit in our homes or our cars anyway. Yeah, that's true. We all lie at some point from time to time some more than others i usually lie in the cookie jar thing we were eating no it wasn't did you have the burger and fries no i had a salad oh yeah those are my lies i'm sticking to them there you go i'm not fat i'm fluffy but makes me what you're saying brings up a point for me makes me think that a lot of times with couples you have to get a definition of what lying means so before everybody starts laughing at me look someone might think an exaggeration is not a lie that's just adding flavor to a story where the other partner would be like uh no because

it's not the whole truth what is that saying tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth so i hope you god then it's a lie so you can't even tweak something so you really need to talk to your partner and figure this out that's better than the flashlight thing i think get a bible and have them have them have them put the hand on there just like you do in court man you know read them the court thing you ever heard of perjury i mean so many people yeah under penalty of perjury i've actually had i think i've had a few of those conversations with ex-girlfriends where they're where they give you know it's that talk they're like we have to talk and you're like fuck and then yeah usually there is a bible and it's under perjury, whatever your answers are.

And you're just like, holy shit. We talked before the show, too. Another good way to tell if someone's lying is to ram bamboo shoots underneath their fingernails like they used to do in Nam. Is that what your idea, Nam? Yeah. I thought it was constructive. It seems like a great way. It worked.

And I did, what was it two years in nam i i what i do i killed about two or three vietnamese people and uh i've got a plate in my head still it's nice okay it's better wi-fi but yeah go with that real story huh what no this is not a real story yeah i was in nam you didn't I was in Nam? I got a plate in my head from it. No. You haven't seen the scar on my thing? No. Can you tell I'm lying? This is not a real story. No, listen.

Listen, I did kill some people in Vietnam. They were Vietnamese. I did kill some people. I don't believe you. I did. It was last week. I was visiting. See, I'm right.

I don't believe you. I was right not to believe you. I actually stole that bit from a movie. I love that bit because people are like, you're a nom? I'll tell that to people. I'll be like in the store and I'll be like, I'll screw up somebody in the bag. Yeah, man, it's okay, dude. And I'm like, yeah, sorry.

It's that plate in my head from nom. And they always look at me like, you look a little young for nom. But I don't know. Then I laugh and they go no security i love that laugh that's awesome more about lying uh you know yeah a lot of why don't a lot of marriages have lies that's interesting to me. Like my first marriage. The first marriage that didn't happen. Go ahead, Chris. So, you know, I, she's, I remember she said to me when we first started dating, she goes,

do you love me? And I didn't want her feelings. And just like you mentioned, and I'm like, uh, yeah, I love you. And she was like, okay. And then 20 years later, we have five kids or something. And then she's like, why are we getting divorced? You never really loved me, did you? And I'm like, yeah, I just kind of started with that first line. It snowballed.

Yeah. I don't know why people like, I think we were talking before the show. A lot of my friends, I hear about their relationships and what they're up to. And I'm just like, I have a better relationship with enemies than you have with your significant other. I don't know what's going on. You're like Decepticons over there with your whole yeah the one person's like ordering shit and hiding packages from amazon she's got a separate account he's got a mistress on the side or two she's got a pool boy they all know what's going on but no one's like speaking the truth didn't i just write back every

marriage i know i don't know probably that begs the question, why stay together? It drives me bonkers. There's so many people who stay in limbo instead of doing what their heart really wants them to do. They make excuses. Here's the deal. I guess if you've got the kids, you've got to make excuses.

A bunch of excuses. There's research that shows that kids will do fine with divorce when you think about it if if we as humans as a society if we were that fragile that all the bad things that happen in life we would all perish think about that maybe we're not really here and this is just an alternative universe and they don't right but we are resilient yes as humans we are resilient and children are very resilient. But people make excuses.

That's my belief. People make excuses. You know, a funny story. Who knew this would come out of Chris Voss's mouth? Funny stories. My parents, they were married for all the years and they actually stayed together to get us out of the house, which I give them points for. They get an award. I don't know what that means. That's stupid. But after we moved out for several years and stuff, my mom called me up. I'll never forget.

She called us up and she goes, Hey, here's the talk. Me and dad are getting divorced. And we're like, finally. And she's like, are you guys hurt? And we're like, no, we're really relieved because you two should never have been married like ever. And we've known this for 20 years and we're just glad you're coming around. But that's the the point so instead of people wanting to stay together for the wrong reasons think about what you're not teaching your children you're not teaching your children about love and caring and compassion yeah which are skills they need to know moving forward in their own lives so they get in healthy relationships but people don't think that way yeah that seems awful though because what will they have to i mean what will they do in the psychiatrist's but people don't think that way. Yeah. That seems awful though, because what will they have to, I mean, what will they do in the psychiatrist's office?

They won't have anything to complain about. There'll be no scarring. That seems like you're really failing as a parent. Yes. No, I think it's awesome. You're trying to be funny, but I think it's incredible. I mean, half the reason I wanted to have kids was so I could scar them, but there's so much stuff that you can do and you're just like, man, what do I choose first?

Do I choose, do I not hug them for their whole life? And then they nip as a stripper or something. What do I do? You just, you sit and you look at them and you just go, what can I, I do that to my dog sometimes. I'm like, how can I really screw you up? And they're just like, I don't know, lock me outside, put me in a cage or a kennel or something. No, you have to do the crating thing when the baby's though. They do look at you through the crate when they're babies and they're like... It's not a

crate, it's a crib. No, it's called crating the dogs. You're thinking of babies. I thought you were talking about babies. No, I wasn't talking about babies. I was talking about baby dogs. Puppies! Babies means human. Puppy means baby dog. Blanca says I can't

do the daycare anymore with the cages. Explains why CPS is always banging on my door. God damn it. There's something wrong with that. It's okay if they can't call CPS. They're not allowed to call CPS. Once they can start dialing those phones, that's your problem time. Anyway, I don't know.

So what should people do? Do we need to call each other out on their lies and say, look, you're lying to me. Is that your final answer? You put the light on and you have them swear, you hook them up. You'd be like the meet the Fockers. You have one of those CIA machines. You put them on the thing and the liar detector machine, you put them on the thing and you check them? It all goes to your intent. What's your point of telling them that? If it's because it's for you to know the truth,

it's going to help them, it's going to keep them safe or healthy, then yes. If you want to tell them the truth because, all right, this is the millionth and 20th time you've lied to me, so I'm gone. I'm out of here. At some point, you have to protect yourself and you have to do what's good for you and so it also depends on how you're going to call somebody out on your on a lie sometimes you don't tell people that they're

lying because you use it as a strategy or that they incriminate themselves the more evidence you're going to have and then you can bam serve them with papers it's not like when my girlfriends and we got to talk and they pull out like that list they've been keeping for five fucking years and this one time in 1997 you you left the toilet seat up you bastard and then you did it again and again wow this is a long list i'll email this to you and so is that sometimes where people use that to their advantage my biggest problem especially in relationships is i'm busy like i'm doing shit the old policy i used to have was you got one call a day with me and i was running like three companies i had stuff to do and i never could figure out why

i would catch some of my employees just talking for hours to their spouses or their significant others on the phone i'm like you're gonna go home and see them you can't do this at home like you're doing it on my time and i'm like what do you fucking talk about when you go home because you spend two hours talking i don't have two hours to talk to someone i go home but i guess that's a separate problem we should have you on for again to break down that psychology but to me like sometimes when people that have been in relationship with lie to me i just look at them and it depends on the lie, of course. But sometimes I just look at them and I go, you're really pretty and you're really hot in bed. So I'm just going to let that one slide.

Just like that will wash off. But eventually they do stack and you're just like, yeah, there's not enough pretty in the world here. And I can probably find somebody to swing in the Vietnamese swing fuck chair all crazy. So probably trying to replace you and spring in someone else. But is that too much information? Did I share that across? Way too much information. I never knew Chris would tell these stories.

Yeah, I didn't. You read my mind, actually. The swing fuck chair? No, just that he would tell these stories. Oh, how would you ever know it's like you it's like you talked to me before once or twice some things are better left unsaid chris that's what lying so there's that but always want to know i've never met anyone yet that says you know what i like being lied to don't need to know if i'm being lied to yeah whatever i have not yet met

that person yet i i've let i let some of it slide i think it's important though like you say there's a point where you're like hey you're being unhealthy we talked about my friends who were really building these stacks of cards and there were times where i tried to have a conversation with them about it but the problem was they built you know such a house of cards that you just you're just like man they're gonna have a mental collapse if they ever really decide to come to look at what they did. And sometimes people like Bernie Madoff or other people, they end up in prison. No one finds Christ on prom night, as Dennis Miller used to say. And even then, sometimes facing all the lies and damage they've done and what they've built and stuff is the thing.

But yeah, I think maybe you have to pick your battles. Because there are times where I have sat down with friends. Sometimes I've yelled them on Facebook because of some of the bullshit they put on a consistent basis. And I've said, hey, man, you've done some consistent posts. You're either pulling your news from a bullshit news source. You're either obviously dissertating some unconscious bias that you have that could be racially charged or racism. And I got to call you out because you're my friend. And number one, I'm not going to be seen with you if this really is who you are. Number two, you need to knock it

off and wake the fuck up. And number three, I'm just making up three at this point, really. There's a number three somewhere, but I can't remember right now. That's all right. But we know you mean it, whatever that number three is, it's going to be an important point. We got it. Number number three because you always have to have three that's just the rule right three out of four doctors whatever yes but here is something else and a lot of people don't realize that the number three is a liar's number is it yeah it's a lie no no you didn't just lie but what happens is you think about it. What the three, what is it? The Goldilocks and the three bears or the three little pigs?

Because so much of our society, we talk in groups of threes. What it was the other one, like bad things happen in threes. Twins is two, not three. So I'm not talking about that right now that right well there's three if you're involved in it but never mind you are so silly but anyway this is for another psychological exam totally yeah this is for episode three blanca's episode three with chris voss yeah we break down chris voss and find out what the fuck is wrong with him we're to need a lot more sessions though.

How many decades do you have? Lobotomy is the easiest way for me to go out. Anyway, my apologies. So the number three can be the liar's number. Does it mean every single time you hear a number three, it's somebody's lying, but it is a tip.

I always learn from you. So now every time I hear three, I'm going to be like fucking liar, man. You're totally ignoring what I said. I just qualified it. Yeah, but I still, it's going to, it's lodged in there, man. I just took the, I just took like the piece of it and now I'm going to make it a thing. And that's what so many people do. I'll give you one last tip. Okay. So there's one last tip. Is there more than one last tip or are you just giving me one last tip? Cause that's, I'm giving you one last tip. Is there more than one last tip, or are you just giving me one last tip? I'm giving you one last tip.

Is there more tips, and you're just lying to me? You just don't want to give me more tips? You're holding out on me? I said I'll give you one more last tip. I didn't say there are no more, but there's one last tip. Well, that's why I'm trying to clarify this conversation, Blanca. And me, too. Is that your final answer?

Yeah, this is going to be my final answer. This is the last tip I'm giving on the podcast today. If you suspect somebody's lying to you, listen to what they have to say and then change the conversation. Just drop it. Ring it back up a later time, whether it's an hour, whether it's a week, whether it's a month. See how much their answer changes. See, this is what happens. Before you get away from the live, people tend to forget.

Oh my gosh, I was like last week. I'm in the good. They're not going to remember. See, this is what we were talking about. I think we did at the beginning of the show or before the show. This is why I try not to lie to my girlfriends because they will store that shit. And a week later, they'll be like, so you said you were at the at the word class right how was that work what was it you're doing last friday you're like i wasn't at work i was at the bar and you're like shit oh man she saved that it was like

a ticking time bomb and it was like just around the corner there and it spun up and exploded like a mine i didn't see it coming she's like colombo who had my show and we talked about colombo was it you yeah she's like colombo and she gets she says okay i'm done with my questions she goes the door and she goes one more thing and you're just like yeah about that mistress and you're like i thought we're talking about the guys at the bar last friday when do we go to the mistress and then you're like there is no mistress but which one are you referring to i don't know you're so funny i try to be i like your laugh so every time you laugh thank you like just sets me off yeah yeah i love people's laugh it's like jet fuel so especially if it's funny unless you have a bad laugh you have a's laugh. It's like jet fuel. So, especially if it's funny.

Unless you have a bad laugh. If you have a bad laugh, then it's not funny. Like, I used to know this person, when they would laugh, they'd snort. It wasn't a laugh. It was a snort. I am a snorter, too. Really? I do it every now and then for effect, because I learned from this.

Yeah, you did it earlier on the show. Yeah, this person that I knew that snorted when they laughed, I was like, I should incorporate that and make it like a punch line sort of thing like a like a little bit and so if i want to accent something i'll give it a little there you go i want people to think i'm a pig one of the two so have we learned everything there is to know about flying and we've learned enough for today about that there we go yes enough for today gotta give people a reason to tune back in. As the psychologist always says to me, your time is up. Now get the fuck out of my office and pay for it. So there's that.

Lying in. So I think we've all got some great tips on how to learn to be better liars from Blanca today. And we can all take these out and use these for how to lie better. Lying by Blanca, the new book coming out onbruary 10th i don't know why that's next year but yeah you can work on that oh my god but i'm giving you till next year to get this book out but i how many people would subscribe this this book if you if blanca could write a book to my audience i love you you guys people are wonderful right into the chris fosh show and tell us how much you would like to see a book on how to become

a better liar and no how to catch a liar oh how to catch a liar yes i always get this wrong note to self anyway anything more we want to plug in this before we go out blanca i've interrupted you like the whole damn show and you just talked over you a stupid story so i'm hoping somebody either got a really good laugh out of this or they learned something or neither no I think people got a really good laugh I think they learned off of you they learned nothing from me but this is why we have guests on the show because people are just like

fucking idiot again but this wonderful person he has on the show seems interesting we should learn from that so give us your plugs yeah so people can find me at BlancaCobb.com and I'm on Clubhouse and Instagram and Twitter at BlancaCobb, Facebook and YouTube BlancaCobb-BodyLanguageExpert. And if you are on Clubhouse, follow my club, the Body Language Club. I talk all about body language and figuring out when someone is lying to you.

Talk about all kinds of things from pop culture to trial du jour, trial of the day. She has a funny laugh and a great smile. There was a question I had for you. What was the question? I threw a compliment and it threw me out the window and trying to think of the joke, but man,

I'll think of it right after the show. And so there it goes. We'll just save it for later. We'll save it for the next show. That's why you need to tune into the next show. Anyway, guys, there'll think of it right after the show ends. So there it goes. We'll just save it for later. We'll save it for the next show. That's why you need to tune in to the next show, the Chris Voss Show. Anyway, guys, there you go. Be sure to watch Blanca's show. I learned a whole mess from that show also on body language.

You can go search on the Chris Voss Show for body language. But Blanca taught me a lot about if you're a podcaster, you're doing a lot of these Zoom meetings like we are lately, how to look like you actually give a shit when your boss is talking and stuff for your body language if you're jeffrey tubin how to basically make it really seem like you're really into the moment more body language gives i get that image in my head damn it no you tell the joke you don't put the image in your head that's the way it works exactly Anyway, there you go. Anyway, am I? Stop fucking around. Whatever.

Just go to all the things. Just go to all of them. Just go to all the fucking things.com. That's where probably you should buy all the things.com and just do it. As long as Blanca keeps laughing, like I'm never going to stop telling jokes. There you go. We'll end the show. Thanks for tuning in, guys.

Stay safe. Wear your mask. We'll see you guys next time.