The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Body of Stars: A Novel by Laura Maylene Walter

Episode Date: March 11, 2021

Body of Stars: A Novel by Laura Maylene Walter BODY OF STARS has recently appeared on most anticipated lists from The Millions, The Rumpus, and i09! From debut novelist Laura Maylene Walter, a bold and dazzling exploration of fate and female agency in a world very similar to our own—except that the markings on women's bodies reveal the future Perfect for fans of Leni Zumas's Red Clocks and Naomi Alderman's The Power, Body of Stars is a unique and timely exploration of girlhood, womanhood, and toxic masculinity. A piercing indictment of rape culture, it is an inventive and urgent read about what happens when women are objectified and stripped of choice—and what happens when they fight back. Celeste Morton has eagerly awaited her passage to adulthood. Like every girl, she was born with a set of childhood markings—the freckles, moles, and birthmarks on her body that foretell her future and that of those around her—and with puberty will come a new set of predictions that will solidify her fate. The possibilities are tantalizing enough to outweigh the worry that the future she dreams of won't be the one she's fated to have and the fear of her “changeling period”: the time when women are nearly irresistible to men and the risk of abduction is rife. Celeste's beloved brother, Miles, is equally anticipating her transition to adulthood. As a skilled interpreter of the future, a field that typically excludes men, Miles considers Celeste his practice ground—and the only clue to what his own future will bring. But when Celeste changes, she learns a devastating secret about Miles's fate: a secret that could destroy her family, a secret she will do anything to keep. Yet Celeste isn't the only one keeping secrets, and when the lies of brother and sister collide, it leads to a tragedy that will irrevocably change Celeste's fate, set her on a path to fight against the inherent misogyny of fortune-telling, and urge her to create a future that is truly her own.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain now here's your host chris voss hi folks chris voss here from the chris voss show.com the chris voss show.com hey we're coming here with another great podcast we certainly appreciate you guys tuning in oh my. We got one of the hottest new authors. She's coming off the presses on March 16th, 2021,

and she's giving a pre-advanced interview of her amazing new novel that she's got coming out. We're going to be reviewing her in a second to see the video version for free. We don't even charge for it. You go to youtube.com forward slash Chris Voss. Hit the bell notification button. You get all the notifications. You feel like you're a part of something like a giant family that will give you hugs and won't ever, ever judge you. Go to youtube.com. Take advantage of that free unlimited time offer. Go to goodreads.com forward slash Chris Voss. You can see what we're reading, reviewing over there. See all the wonderful different groups we have on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and all that good stuff. And now without further ado, what does it do mean anyway? You're going to do it or not?

I don't know. I think it's French. She is the author of the newest, hottest book that's coming out, Body of Stars, a novel. Laura Malene Walter, she is on the show with us today. We're going to be interviewing her new book. You can pre-order this baby right off of Amazon or your local booksellers. March 16th, 2021, you'll be able to access it, get it, and read it. Let me tell you a little bit about Laura, though. She is the author of this newest novel. Her writing has appeared in Poets and Writers, Kenyon Review, The Sun, Ninth Letters, The Master's Review, The Horse Girls Anthology, and many other publications.

She has been a Tin House Scholar, a recipient of the Ohioan Library, not sure I said that, Ohioana Library Associations, Walter Rumsley, Marvin Grant, and Writer-in-Residence at Yaddo. She's also been at Art Omni Writers. Laura is an Editor-in-Chief of Literary Cleveland's Gordon Square Review and works for Cleveland Public Library. Welcome to the show, Laura. How are you? Hi, I am fantastic,

and I'm delighted to be here to speak with you. And we are wonderfully happy to have you with us to share your brilliant knowledge and your brilliant new book that you put out. Give us your plugs so people can find you on the interwebs, get to know you better and order the book. Sure. My website is laurabayleenwalter.com and that will have lots of links to buy the book, but basically you could buy the book anywhere books are sold. I always encourage people to support their local independent bookstores. You could also consider throwing some support to Barnes & Noble, which named the book a most anticipated debut of 2021. And otherwise, I'm on Twitter at Laura Maylene and Instagram as well. So I always love to meet new people.

And you've been writing for a long time. What motivated you to finally write a book? Give us some background on how long you've been writing and some of the different things you've been doing that led up to this. Sure. I have been a writer most of my life. I have been writing stories since I was a child. This is not a very unique story. A lot of writers have the same story where books and writing were always a draw for them.

And that was the case for me. So throughout my childhood and adolescence, I was writing fairly seriously with the intent to hopefully one day become an author and specifically a published novelist. As I got a little bit older, I studied writing in college. After college, I started attending local writing workshops to try to find that community that is often lacking when you're out of an academic environment. And what I learned was I had to work very hard. So I had come up with a lot of young talent. I had a lot of sort of high school awards and people telling me I was very talented.

So at one time, I perhaps thought, oh, it will be easier for me because everyone tells me I'm talented. And what I learned, of course, as most writers know, is talent is really not the most important part. It comes down to sustained hard work and an ability to keep going and bear rejection, which I did many times, which we can get into. But I was writing a lot of stories. I write a lot of prose, both fiction and nonfiction. And I published a small press story collection years ago, but it was really publishing a novel that I was most interested in. And that is what I've been steadily working toward. And this actually wasn't the first novel I've written, which is also a common experience for writers.

But this was the novel that it wouldn't let me go. And I knew I was going to put the work in and the time in to hopefully bring it into the world. And that's what's happening now. So I'm so excited. That's awesome. So was it just you just finally had to find that right subject or proponent that really fired you over the top to get the novel down? That is a great question. And I think it was a combination of factors. I think, first of all, a writing career is generally a slow build. It often takes people a long time, a lot of years

of development. And that was the case for me. And I also, I needed to grow as a writer. I needed to get better. I just had to learn, learn my way around writing a novel. I, my background is in a lot of literary fiction. That is what I write, but I would try to write stories or novels that people might call them quiet or which I love a good quiet novel. But what I was writing, I think was quiet in the sense where it wasn't very interesting. And so I really after trying a few things that failed and working at it over a long time, I started to really take stock and think, what do I get excited about when I read? And what what would I want to write if I could write anything in the world. And when I came

up with the idea for Body of Stars, which we can talk about, I think I knew right away that this was an idea unlike anything else I've had before. It just felt electric. And I knew, I didn't know how long the road would be, but I knew when I first came up with the idea that this was something that had promise and that I was going to stick with. And that is what happened. That's awesome. I was giving some counsel on Clubhouse earlier to a business group, and I told some future entrepreneurs, I said, find something you're passionate about. And that passionate will help you with the drive. That passion will help you with the drive and help you want to get going. So give us an arcing overview, if you would, of Body of Stars and tell us a little bit about it.

Of course. Body of Stars is speculative literary fiction. It's set in a world where the bodies of women predict the future. And specifically, it's the patterns of moles and birthmarks on the bodies of girls and women that spell out certain future events. So it's not every future event. Certain things are unclear, but a lot of large life events in their lives and their families' lives are accurately predicted. So it surrounds a brother-sister relationship. The sister, Celeste, who is the protagonist, she discovers a prediction on her body about her brother, Miles.

And it's a prediction that could have devastating consequences for their family. And so she decides not to tell him. She does everything in her power to conceal it from him in order to protect him and to avoid fallout. And it turns out he is also keeping a secret from her as well at the same time. So without revealing too much, that's a good summary of some of the main tensions in the book. This is really interesting. I love the title. It's in the cover of the book is beautiful body of stars. It evokes an imagination of what the

book might be. So is she telling, I'm not sure, you know, how much we can disclose because I don't want to give away the whole book, but is she not telling him in the hopes that it won't come true? So that's a good question as well. In the world they live in, fate cannot be escaped. So as she knows, she can't necessarily change it. So she's not fighting to change it, but it's, there's denial going on, an inability to face it, and also thinking maybe she can protect him in some ways just by not letting him know what's going to come. She's also young. Both she and her brother both make mistakes. They both betray each other in different ways, even though they really love each other. So there's a lot of things going

on. And also another main reason she wants to conceal this prediction, as a woman in this world, she is so used to her body being examined for the future. And so it's her body and her predictions, but in some ways they belong to people other than her. And so by concealing it, it's also her way of trying to maintain her privacy and to take ownership of herself and say, this is just for me. I don't want to show anyone. And in her society, that's frowned upon and it's considered a duty and an honor to share your future with other people. That's really wild. I would be going up to women and be like, hey, can you tell me my future and stuff? And that's pretty interesting. So you go through this. Go ahead.

Oh, and that's why there's a lot of tension between men and women in the book, because only women have this ability, which means men, they, they, they want to be able to see, they want to know, because if it's your brother or a spouse or someone in your life, a woman's markings might reveal something about his future as well. So that adds to the complications. What do you, what does your body say about me? That's really interesting. What made you want to put that spin on it? What brought you to that sort of paradigm? I came up with the concept unexpectedly at a writing conference. I was

just in a craft class. We were reading work by Amy Bender, who's this really wild writer, comes up with wild concepts. I really love her work. And we were asked to come up with a speculative premise of our own. And I didn't really expect much would come out of this. I usually don't have much luck in group writing exercise situations. But I think I looked down at my arm and I saw the moles on my arm. And the idea came to me, what if the pattern of these moles could actually spell out the future?

And when I look back on it now, I think I was so compelled by this kind of idea because predicting the future, psychics, things like that, I don't necessarily believe in that for myself, but I find it so fascinating. I find it really interesting. I'm compelled by people who do believe. I love hearing about the process. And because this interested me so much, writing it in a novel was a way for me to make it real. So I could actually bring it to life. I could create a world where it is possible to fore it real so I could actually bring it to life.

I could create a world where it is possible to foretell the future and to know what would come. So that was just a really compelling point for me. I think it's brilliant because there's so many different places you can take it. I remember when I was growing up as kids, we'd be like, your lines in your hand can tell you where it is. My brother had a lot of freckles and now you've made it. So I'm never going to look at my little freckles the same way. I'm going to be like, what does that mean right there? And I think it's brilliant because there's so many different ways you could

write about it in the book, so many different ways you could take it. And does this large part of the book cover the brother and sister or are there other characters or people that play in as the story goes along? Sure. There are a few lines of tension in the book. The brother and the sister relationship is at the heart of it. But the protagonist, Celeste, goes through some really trying experiences. Her friends do, other women in the book do. I knew early on when I started writing this book that if only women could have this ability and if there's tension with men, I realized that some dark things might happen. If this is a regressive society that has strict views on gender and gender identity and sexuality, all that stuff. And if women, if their bodies are used as a means to foretell the future, I knew that some bad things could happen. And so the book

does critique rape culture and toxic masculinity. Women sometimes have, they become irresistible when they, it would be similar to puberty in our world. They, at one time they mature and markings change to give them a more comprehensive look at their adult futures. So when that transformation happens, they're considered irresistible. So there's threats from men in the book. And this was not something I originally wanted to write. I generally wasn't interested in writing about anything that could involve assault. I'm always wary of how women are portrayed, if they're portrayed as victims. I didn't want to exploit anything. But at the same time, I was seeing so many parallels between

my imagined world and our real world and how women have or don't have control over their own bodies. And so all of that kind of got mixed in. So it is a brother sister story, but it's also a story about a woman, a young woman trying to, to test out how much control she has over her body and on a broader scale, her entire future. I can imagine that it's, it's already women are attractive enough and we're drawn to them as men or whomever significant others. But I can imagine if, if you, if, if somebody could also tell my future, they almost become more of a product or seen as a, as a product than as a human being, because you're, you're, you're going to them and, and, and seeing them objectively or

is objectively, you're seeing them from that point of view is instead of a human being, you're seeing them as like a crystal ball sort of thing. Exactly. Exactly. And so that's a problem that a lot of the characters in the book are running up against. And then you add on the element of this is not a society that thinks transgender people exist or that gay relationships are tolerated, but it's not equal rights. And this is something my protagonist starts to learn about as she changes, as she goes through some difficult things, her eyes are opened a bit and she can see the world in a different light. And it's really, writing her was so fascinating because, especially in the beginning, this is the world she knows. So she doesn't

know it's wrong that gender is viewed this way. This is just what she has grown up with and what she has come to expect. So it's just like in our world, changing or expanding your viewpoint, it can take a lot of work and it can be a shock sometimes. Yeah. I can see a lot of male toxicity coming from that because you're just not looking for a date. You're also like, what's my future? There's a lot of stuff that could go wrong there, but it's interesting to how you flush it out and you've, you've gone through it and the different aspects of it. I've had some ex-girlfriends that have told me my future. I don't know. I just got a joke I threw in there. Like, uh, you'll never find a girl like me again. And, uh, or you're going to die alone and unhappy. So I think

that's, I think that's where it's headed. It's getting dark quickly. I'm just doing jokes. Yeah, I know. I'm sorry. But no, I can see how women would become more objectified at that point and treated as property because you're like a crystal ball on top of everything else. And it's interesting on these journeys and the characters that you used in the book, did you pull from anything in your life experience or from other people around you is that you maybe shape the characters on? I did not base any character on a specific person. I think all writers, just a lifetime of experiences and people I've known inform everything. Now I do have two older brothers. So I am the youngest and the youngest sister, which is Celeste is younger than her brother. And I definitely did not base

her brother Miles on either of my brothers. I think growing up with brothers and those experiences, good and bad, I think all informed the character and probably made it a little easier for me to write what I hope is a complex brother-sister relationship. That'll do it. Brothers and sisters, man. Any siblings, really. Me and my brother, we used to fight like cats and dogs. I don't think we've gotten any better, actually, in our old age. I always wanted a sister so badly but yeah not in the cards yeah if you if you had had one you would you could do that in the second book or something i don't know i just i can do it anyway i'll make it up that's what the final fiction is

yep it's the beautiful part so as you go through this book are there any characters that you want to would want to take into a second novel for this book? Or is this, as far as you can see now in the future, a one-off novel? I definitely wrote it as a standalone novel. So I have no plans to write a sequel or to carry on in the world. But I was thinking there's one character, her name is Julia, and she is, she's an interpreter. So in this world, an interpreter is someone who is especially skilled in reading the patterns of markings and interpreting the future, because sometimes it's not black and white. It's, it requires a bit of knowledge and finesse. And she's just really fascinating to me. In my mind, I have a whole,

she's not the main character, but she has some important roles. But in my mind, I have a whole, she's not the main character, but she has some important roles. But in my mind, I can envision her entire backstory and what her life was like to get her to this point. And so she's really interesting to me. That would be the character I think of. But right now I have no plans to dig into that yet. Yeah. Would you say she was your favorite character in the book or who would you say was your favorite that really drove you? male audience quite a bit through their experiences with just everything that goes on in our world, unfortunately, male toxicity and things of that nature. Do you think it's a book that will appeal to a lot of men and those who like reading these books? I would hope so. I think anyone who enjoys speculative fiction and a really imaginative world would enjoy it. But I do think that brings

up a great point that I do expect mostly women to probably read this book because that is our culture. I think men generally have been found to read fewer women than in general. Of course, a lot of men read a lot of women, but in overall, and because my book does deal with female autonomy and rape culture and things like that, I could see some men thinking it's not for them. One, of course, I think it's definitely for them and they should read it just because I do think this world is a mirror of our current world. And so it might be useful or just entertaining for all people to read, no matter gender? Most definitely. Some of you can learn and of course, great writing. I love the premise of the book. It's almost novels are written in our current world. And so having this sort of

different feel of going outside of it. Do you ever see this book maybe becoming a movie by chance? Hey, that would be great if there's a Hollywood producer listening, but I, I very much, I know some writers really love to just daydream, like which actor will play which character and they really picture where they are already writing a script or anything like that. And I have to say, I'm not like that. Of course, I'd love that if that ever happened, but I also know that's usually a challenging road and a lot of things that are optioned aren't made. And so I'm just focused on my writing. I honestly, if good things happen down the road, that'd be great, but I just want to write. That was going to be my next question. Who do you see playing your characters in the book? Some people do write that way and it's kind of funny and they're like, I have this character and that character and stuff, but hopefully I think it would be a great

book. I love stories like this that are based in reality, but not based in reality and have an interesting spin. There's just so much. I'm just imagining the book right now. There's so much you could do with so many people's fortunes and different things. Right. It's very visual. Yeah. And does it, one question I have actually, does it change? You said that the markings can change after they pass puberty. Do they constantly change or do they stay static after that? They only change once. Baby girls are born with one set of markings that are sort of their childhood markings. They do predict some long-term future events, but they're a little less detailed. And during this puberty process is when it's like magic, a girl wakes up and she has a new

set of markings. So this is a big deal in her life, as you can imagine. And that once she wakes up changed, that is it. They will never change again. So that is not only are you dealing with puberty and growing up in the world, in this world, especially, but you're also going to have your whole future revealed. So it's a lot, as you can imagine, a lot of pressure, a lot of just anxiety. And there's no way, they don't change at all, right? There's no way where you can change the future by doing something different or anything. No, they can't change their markings. They can't change their future. And that is one of the driving questions of the book. So free will does exist in the society, but there's this question of even if what is faded in our skin is going to happen, can we make any difference in that

respect? And so that is actually a central question the narrator is really curious about and trying to determine, but otherwise they can't change their markings. So some characters get creative. Some people in this world, they might try to tattoo over their markings, or they might try to scar them out of existence. Or if someone is transgender, even though this world wouldn't know to call it that, they might try to tattoo on markings or remove them and things like that. And it's generally viewed in a society as a cosmetic move that doesn't actually change anything. It's like me. I don't know. I don't have a joke for this, but it's like me getting a chin lift. It's not going to change how it's going to happen in the end. It won't change who you are on the inside. That's it. There you go. You said it perfectly, Laura. You said it perfectly. What other aspects can we disclose? Sadly, with novels, we can't give away the ending and large parts of the middle. What other aspects maybe haven't I fleshed out or asked about that you think readers would really think is important? me a long time and it took me a lot of thought, a lot of revision, a lot of just understanding what that would do to you as a person or as a society if you could predict the future.

So it was very complicated. But what the book offers is, in addition to the main text of the book, there are excerpts featured throughout. So there are some images, there are some diagrams of women and where their markings are located. There are some smaller diagrams of specific marking patterns that show how this feature is predicted. So there are things like that throughout the book. There's also excerpts from the fictional guidebook. It's like a Bible of how to read the markings. So, these extra pieces that are included between chapters to hopefully bring the world to life and to show just how this society is structured. I think the guidebook excerpts really show it has a timeless, I think of it as like a biblical

timeless tone. And it shows how the men who wrote it, because there's definitely men in control here, that they act as though these markings on women are an honor, right? Like we revere women. We love women. Like, of course, women have it great in our world because we respect them so much that they have their markings. And at the same time, it's a lot of blaming women for the bad behavior of men and that kind of double standard. So that was really important for me to convey how the society would claim that they're great for women. But people can read the book and decide if they think that's true or not. Sounds like some parallels of what we have. I mean, we've had a lot of different religious writing authors.

And I think we have a mean we talked a lot of different we've had a lot of different religious writing authors and i think we have a future one we're uh just waiting to hear back from the publishers but it's that eve complex of where eve in in standardized religion gets blamed for everything because you know why not but and so it sounds a lot like a little bit similar the narratives that they have there where it's always eve's fall and And of course, men always write the books and all that male toxicity stuff. So hopefully one of these days we get to better balance society, both in your book and in our lives as well. Yeah, that'd be great. So you were mentioning before the show that you actually, on your mailing list, you have gotten into a lot of skepticism of the supernatural.

Tell us a little bit about that. Yes. So, well, I wrote an entire novel about predicting the future and fortune telling. And aside from that, I realized I'm just, I'm so compelled by psychics, spiritual mediums who claim to speak to the dead, anything like that, any kind of mystical, new agey kind of thing. And I don't believe in any, to be clear. I personally don't believe if I go to a palm reader or a psychic that they'll actually be predicting my future, but I find it so interesting. I think it's fun. I also think some of these things like tarot reading is not necessarily about predicting the future. It's about telling a story. It's about trying to understand your life in a new way, which is very much a writer's

job. So I love all of this. And I was questioning though, if I am so science-minded and I am a skeptic and yet I'm still, I will devour anything about a psychic or I, one podcast. I love your podcast guy is Oh No, Ross and Carrie. I don't know if you, yeah, if you're familiar, it's so long running, but I love that podcast. Anyone interested in this stuff should check it out. It's two people like me, science minded, but they are fascinated by all of this. Go out and do investigations with, you know, psychics. They did all of this, go out and do investigations with,

you know, psychics, they did Scientology, things like that. So I actually only discovered their podcast recently. But before that, I started a newsletter where once a month, I go on a little adventure, it's had to be virtual because of the pandemic, which fortunately hasn't hurt it too much. But I will do things like get a reading from a pet psychic, or I will try to astral project, or my next one will be about past life regression. And it's been really fun and sometimes wild. And so I'll experience whatever it is, and then I'll write about it in the newsletter and send it out to my readers. So it's been really fun and also good to get creative of what I can do with the future until things open up in the public again. But fortunately, there are plenty of Zoom events if you want to regress to past lives

or learn how to astral project, there's plenty you can do. Just FYI. Yeah. And get people to sign up for your mailing list there too as well. And then they can only keep up with you on the book, but future books you can write. It sounds like you have this sort of genre nailed because you're looking for the stories element of it. Yeah. Yes, exactly. That's what it all comes down to, the story. The collection of stories. And there's so much in that business. I remember, I think Houdini, and I think there's been some other people that used to be professional, almost debunkers of that medium. And they go around and disprove different stuff. I think Penn and Teller have

done some of that too as well. Yeah, they have. Yeah, it's great. Yeah. I've always thought it was interesting at looking at all my life. I've studied why people believe in stuff, why they choose to believe the things that they do, why they make those choices. And then once they do, they just lash themselves to them like a life preserver. And, and they, they cannot take that token away from them. They, they're, they're like, I, this is the ride I bought and I'm going for it all the way over the rapids and everything else. Yeah. No, that interests me too. Exactly. I'm curious people who do believe and why

and what it gives them. I do think sometimes it's exhausting being a skeptic. Sometimes I think it would just be easier to believe. And sometimes I want to believe. And because this must be why I write fiction about this, because it makes the world seem a little magical, right? If you think these things are happening, I don't know what a world to live in. And so what I do is I write it down in a novel. Although I should also clarify, people have asked me before if the ability to foretell the future in your skin, if that were real, would I want to know my own future? And I would say, no, I think it would be a nightmare. So I would not personally

myself want to, to be able to know future events. Yeah. That's a great question. I should ask you, I was thinking about asking you, is there, you know, is there anything on you that tells you my future? I just want to make sure that as long as you're here, I cannot predict the future. Yeah, I have thought about it. I thought about it's hard for me to turn off the side of my brain, always thinking, what if or how would I do this? I visited, I don't know if you're familiar with Lillydale. It's a spiritualist community in Western New York where I had a reading from a spiritual

medium who they claim to speak to the dead. And it was just a silly thing when I was waiting for the appointment, the medium had all these marketing materials set up and I was reading through them and they were pretty well written. But of course I was analyzing that. And I started thinking, how would I write my marketing materials as a medium to convince people to come and pay me to do it? And then I realized what I was doing. I would never do that. I would never take someone's money for that. But it was funny to think, I bet I could be good at it. I bet if I try, I could do a good job. Are you looking for a second business? No,

I'm just kidding. I grew up in a hardcore religion. And then of course, I went out of it and started looking at the other way. Tarot, astral projection and different things. And then I of course, I went out of it and started looking at it the other way. Tarot, astral projection, and different things. And then I realized I was just trying to do the opposite of whatever it was. And, of course, now I'm an atheist and stuff. And it's interesting to me the journey people have in trying to find their reason for life, why they're here, things that keep them up at night as to meaning. And everyone's always searching for that meaning. They find it in different things like tarot cards or the crystal ball and all that good stuff.

And it's interesting to me how far people go and what they'll subscribe to. The chaos of the universe isn't fun. Living in a survivalist sort of thing where you're like, yeah, tornadoes, earthquakes, what are you doing? It's not the most funnest thing. And certainly it is appealing to, like you say, go to maybe a magical place, whether it's some nice cloudy real estate in the sky or going to some sort of thing. I remember when I first lost my dog for the first time, I hadn't had a death around me for about 27 years from anywhere as close to me. And I remember when I first lost

my dog, I really struggled with the rainbow bridge that everyone was like, your dog's gone to the rainbow bridge. I'm like, I don't really believe in that stuff, but I really wanted to, there was a part of me that was like, I would really just like to hold on to that little life preserver. And I'm like, once you go down this wormhole, there's no bottom. And, and, but it was hard because I could, there was a part of me that wanted that, but what helped was I, I discovered that I can keep my, my dog in my heart and in there it stays forever. So that's where my dogs usually stay. Oh, that's really sweet. Yeah. So I love the brilliance of what you've done. I love the creativity. I think it's really amazing and interesting because you've got a magical aspect that you put in your book. And of course, it's something that no forgot about. So we'll see. But yeah, I do think that's for me has really become the joy of writing. It's just trying to get creative.

And of course, as a writer, you would love to be able to come up with a concept and write it, not just the concept that no one has thought of, but hopefully write it in a way that is uniquely you and that is powerful just through the writing. The beauty of it is, is we've all had that wonderment. As a kid, like I said, we used to look at all of our little things. We used to draw little lines between them and connect the dots.

You're like, maybe it's a drawing of something. You used to look at your palms and play games like, oh, so this means that. So we've all kind of been there. So you've really tapped into a vein of what we've all kind of wondered, especially as young people and stuff. So really awesome that

way. Laura, it's been wonderful to spend some time with you. Give us your plugs as we go out. Sure. Follow me on social media at Laura Maylene, my website, lauramaylenewalter.com. And please, I hope if my book sounds interesting, pre-order it from an indie bookstore or any bookstore. If you can't buy it, I love libraries. So you could check it out from the library. Thanks. There you go. And did, did I read your bio? You're still a librarian right now? Is that, are you working with a library? What are you doing with that? Yes, I work for Cleveland public library. So I'm not a librarian, but I work there and I work as the writer and editor. So there you go. I wish I were a librarian. I, I,

I value librarians very much. Yeah. Your books are amazing things. They're the most, might be one of the most undervalued things in our society. We need to read more books, all of us, including me, but that's why I have great authors. And everyone, everyone can start with mine. Maybe the decision could read more books. So there you go. And watch her for more. Do you have anything in the So there you go. And I wrote one just for you. And watch her for more. Do you have anything in the can that you're working on right now? Or are you going to promote this one out and then see what comes next?

Yeah, right now I'm mostly focused on Body of Stars. I'm writing a lot. I'm doing a lot. But right now, Body of Stars is taking up primarily taking up my headspace. And so I'm really proud of it. And I'm really excited. And hopefully readers will like it. There you go. Congratulations. Thanks for spending time with us today, Laura. We certainly appreciate

it. Thank you so much. Thank you. And to my audience, be sure to check out Body of Stars, a novel. It comes out March 16th, 2021. You definitely want to pre-order this book. That way you can be the first one on your block in your book group clubs. You can be like, I read it first. So you definitely want to get a hold of it. You can check out Laura Maylene Walter. You can, I would get on that mailing list so you can find out what she's doing with all the psychics and stuff. And that sounds like a lot of fun as well.

To my audience, to see the video version of this, go to youtube.com forward slash Chris Voss. You go to goodreads.com forward slash Chris Voss. Go to all the groups we have on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. Wear your mask, stay safe, be nice to each other, and we'll see you guys next time.