The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Breathwork and Trauma: How Breathing Techniques Can Help Manage Stress and Overcome Trauma

Episode Date: April 22, 2024

Breathwork and Trauma: How Breathing Techniques Can Help Manage Stress and Overcome Trauma breathe-with.me About the Guest(s): John Hall is a 30-year Fortune 100 tech leader who left corporate life to focus on cultivating relationships and purpose. With a background in turning around troubled areas within organizations, John specializes in coaching executives and entrepreneurs using a science-backed methodology. He blends neuroscience, breathwork, and somatic practices to help individuals manage stress, boost self-confidence, and unlock their potential. John integrates tactical breathing techniques used by Navy SEALs and top athletes with a trauma-informed approach to reduce anxiety, improve self-trust, and empower individuals to live a life filled with purpose, peace, and passion. Episode Summary: In this episode, host Chris Boss interviews John Hall, a 30-year Fortune 100 tech leader turned coach. John shares his personal journey of leaving a high-stress job and an abusive marriage, which led him to explore the mind-body connection and the power of breathwork. He explains how breathwork can be used tactically and strategically to manage stress, improve decision-making, and expand our ability to handle chaos. John also discusses the impact of trauma on our nervous system and how breathwork can help individuals overcome trauma and transform their lives. Key themes discussed in this episode include the mind-body connection, the physiological effects of breathwork, the impact of stress on decision-making, and the role of breathwork in healing trauma. Key Takeaways: Breathwork can be used tactically and strategically to manage stress and improve decision-making. Deep breathing increases oxygen to the brain and signals the body to calm down, reducing the stress response. Breathwork can expand our window of tolerance for chaos and help us handle stress more effectively. The mind-body connection plays a crucial role in our overall well-being and decision-making. Trauma can overwhelm our nervous system, but breathwork can help individuals heal and transform their lives. Notable Quotes: "Successful people don't have less stress, they just have better stress management tools." - John Hall "Our body is sending signals to our mind on what to focus on. Our focus is sending signals back to our body on how to respond." - John Hall "Breath equals calm. Pre-training our body with breathwork makes it even more impactful in stressful situations." - John Hall

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com.

The Chris Voss Show. The Voss Show. There you go. Ladies and gentlemen, there are ladies singing. So that means everybody needs to wake up. That's the wake-up call. Everyone needs the Chris Fosch Show Iron Lady on their alarm clock, I think. I just thought of that.

We should sell that as a wake-up ringtone or something. Because, man, when I hear that shrill voice, I'm like, I'm up. It's kind of like when your mom would yell at you from down the road, and she'd use your middle name, and you knew that you better not screw around. Start heading home, because once you use your middle name, you're screwed. Maybe we can get the Iron Lady to do that. We have an amazing young man on the show today. We're going to be talking to him about him and his work, and how he can make your life

better. And if he doesn't make your life better, it's your fault. Listen to the show again and again and again until you get it. John Holt joins us on the show. He's a 30-year Fortune 100 tech leader. He left corporate life to cultivate the relationships and purpose that drive fulfillment. Now he coaches executives and entrepreneurs via science-backed methodology, blending neuroscience, breathwork, and somatic practices to manage stress, boost self-confidence, and unlock potential.

Integrating tactical breathing techniques used by the Navy SEALs and top athletes with a trauma-informed approach, he has created somatic practices to reduce anxiety, manage stress, and improve self-trust, empowering individuals to live a life filled with purpose, peace, and passion. Breathing and taking an air. Who knew? John, welcome to the show. How are you? Chris, I'm fantastic. So good to be here. So good to have you as well. Thanks for coming. Give us any dot coms. Where do you want people

to find you on the interwebs? Yeah, johnhallcoaching.com. One word, johnhallcoaching. There you go. John, give us a 30,000 overview of what you do there in your words. Yeah, so this has really been my own journey, getting into breathwork, somatic exercises, really understanding the mind-body interaction. I know how much we talk about our mind.

We think we operate in the mind space, but really exploring the somatic space, the body space, how much does it interact and specifically how we can use breath work to tap into that and direct us to where we want to go. There you go. Breathing. It's kind of important right here. It's kind of helpful. Kind of helpful. Kind of helpful. Kind of helpful. That whole oxygen thing. I know some people that have no oxygen going to the brain, even though they're open mouth breathing.

I don't know. Maybe we'll get into it later in the show, how that works. Tell us a little bit about your journey through life, and then we'll round about back to what you do. You did some different things and went through some lessons learned and stuff like that that probably got you into this sort of sphere. Tell us about how you grew up, your career journey, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, absolutely. So my background, 30-year tech exec, 25 years of those with JP Morgan Chase, and I really specialized parachuting into troubled areas, turning them around. And you learn pretty quickly, tech doesn't misbehave. It's the people, It's the process. And so that's really how it operates.

And so I would deep dive in, turn departments around, hand them over, go to the next thing. So while I had this very successful career, I have the wife, two kids, the nice cars, the pool in the backyard, all the good things. At the same time, I'm in a marriage that is an abusive marriage. So I have this kind of collapse on the backside and I have a high stress job to begin with. But now I'm going home to even more stress. And, you know, my, my own, right. We all have everything that keeps us in those, those cycles and trying to figure out how do I make it work?

Maybe I work harder. And so that was the roller coaster I was on. That was the treadmill I was on. Yeah. There you go. And now, just for clarity, I think you said you have an abusive. Maybe you said had, and it just got lost in the audio. I had, yes.

No, had. So 25-year marriage, kids go to college, it collapses. Mm-hmm. Wow. So I'm now trying to figure out. So 25-year marriage, kids go to college, it collapses. So I'm now trying to figure out, you know, I had been, I had, as a kid, went through divorce, swore I'd never get divorced. And that was part of what kept me there. So I went on a deep dive into what happened and how do I make sure this never happens again, right? Why did I get attracted to this in the first place?

Why did I stay in it so long? And what do I do to make sure it never happens again? And that led me down the path of starting to get into not just the mind, the talk, let's talk about what happened, but really starting to find out where this is in your body, what the somatic experience is, and leading me to breath work to how I use it today. There you go. So you ended up getting divorced or did this help heal your marriage? I did. I wound up getting divorced. So the marriage collapsed. I wound up getting divorced. And then five years later, I met my wife who I'm married to today. And that was part of what spurred my journey to be an entrepreneur, to start doing this full time and to really help people and do this

transformation as really the key thing that I do now. There you go. I've got a whole list of guys for you that are abusive marriages. Can you fix the no sex marriages? Asking for a friend. Yeah. What's fascinating though is we often, especially as men, we don't recognize how much relationships impact the other areas of our lives. And the analogy I use is we think they're all compartments, that we show up and we have the business compartment and we have the friends compartment and we have the health department and then our relationship, our family compartment. And the reality is it's like barnacles on a boat.

And it just starts building up and building up. And all of a sudden, we've got all this drag pulling us back. And the moment we start diving into these parts of the relationship that aren't right, and it comes up so many times. I'll work with entrepreneurs or executives, and we're starting to deep dive into what's going on and finding it's more than just the beliefs in the business space. We start to unpack these other areas and that's what really creates a lot of the transformation. There you go. Now, I know people lose weight through breathing. There's different

things that, you know, getting more oxygen in your brain. I know it helps your lymph node system, doesn't it? It does. So I use breathwork in three ways. And I use it tactically, I use it strategically, and I also use it to start shifting these underlying beliefs that we cling to. We like to defend these things that hold us back. But you're right, just at a physiological level, especially when you're talking in the tactical space and you start taking deep breaths in the way that is most impactful to you, what are you doing? You're increasing oxygen to your brain, to your cells, but more importantly, you're signaling your body to calm down. There's different breath patterns you can use to activate or calm. If you think about the autonomic nervous system that we have right that part that we don't have to think about our body runs we digest even sexual function is all tied to this

autonomic nervous system yeah and so when we start breathing in the different ways we breathe we can we can cross over right our conscious to the unconscious control to start shifting that. Oh, there you go. Now, I imagine with breath work, it's a calming agent, but it's also can help you focus. A lot of people, I think that you treat, if they have anxiety, things of that nature, a lot of times when we're under stress, we're kind of in a fight or flight mode, right?

And so breathing can kind of help, fight or flight mode right and so breathing can kind of help like you say reduce that down bring us back to the earth there and get us into something where we're not in a desperate you know fight or flight mode and we can objectively maybe analyze what situation we're experiencing or in what What's fascinating, I love this, because what's fascinating is the physiology around this. So we've got natural stress responses, right? So if I'm hiking through the woods and all of a sudden I get a grizzly that comes out on the other side of the trail,

what's going to happen? Anything that's not critical to my survival is going to shut down. Digestion, sex function, different, all the blood is going to go to the core parts, right? It's going to energize me. I'm going to get a dump of chemicals into my body that's going to give me energy,

hyper-focus what I'm focused on, prepare me to fight or run as quickly as I can in the other direction. That's a very useful stress response when I'm looking at physical survival i don't know normally when i see a bear i get kind of turned on sexually no i'm just kidding i don't it's a joke don't do that people because the grizzly is not friendly try do it do the black bear at least at least a black bear not a grizzly the black bear the one you can just kind of sit there and he'll leave you

alone and then they'll they'll leave you alone yeah the black bears are more more they'll leave you alone yeah they're just kind of chill do their own thing yeah but okay all right it's a yeah you can you can i don't know if i advise that but i'm running either way i don't know there's anything wrong with that chris you got the bear thing yeah there you go or i'll walk really slowly but i'm not standing around like i've seen i've seen like hunters out in the wild and they're just like sitting there in their chair, calm as some grizzly goes by him. And I'm just like,

yeah, you guys are all crapped your pants. We know that. The key is Chris just run faster than everyone else. If you're not the last, you're, you're, you're better off.

That's why you push over the fat kid. Wait, I'm the fat kid. Don't do that. People. There we go. Yeah, no. And I, but yeah, that, people. There we go. Speaking of the bear show. Yeah, I know. So bears, one thing.

Survival technique, great on that. We're asked for a report, something goes south in our business, totally different story. That stress response isn't going to help us anymore. Especially because what's going on is in order to hyper-focus, to help us survive,

this part of the brain, our prefrontfrontal cortex which is what makes our executive decision making goes offline and this part back here the amygdala which is an older part of our brain hijacks control and it takes over it's getting danger signals from the body and it's sending the danger signals to the brain to activate us to survive and and really i mean that's great for an emergency situation but in business in life you know unless you're coming across grizzly bear at the office there sometimes you know they get in um you know you find one in the boardroom mucking about you know can't, it shuts down your brain to logically and reason-wise process stuff, right? Yeah. In fact, Dr. John Gottman, who is a part of the Gottman Institute, they do a lot of research around relationships and he did studies and he found, right, using different techniques that when our heart rate goes over a hundred beats per minute and we're

focused on a stressful relationship, but this could be any other stressful situation, the blood flow decreases to this prefrontal cortex, to the part of us that helps us make rational decisions. So until we redirect that body hijack, we release that hijack of the amygdala, we're pretty much offline. We're pretty much offline with our higher thinking. We're in reactive mode right away. Yep. And that's not a healthy place to be because you say all the wrong things when you're reactive mode and usually make poor choices when you're in reactive mode.

I think half my divorces came from that. There's been five or six or 10 of them. I've lost count. But you say things you probably shouldn't, and being reactive is never a great place to be if you want to be self-actualized in your life. Lose creativity. You start looking at poor choices.

You believe you're limited to the smaller set of outcomes. And if you're leading a big team or an organization, right now you're taking everyone else with you. Ah, there you go. And that's really important. If you're a leader, you know, someone who people look to as being that rock of Gibraltar or whatever that, you know, is supposed to be the solid logic reason one who isn't panicky. No one wants to see the leader panic, eh? No, no.

And it's amazing because the studies they've done have shown that even if we aren't outwardly panicking, but we are starting to, we're starting to activate this thinking, that slow thinking monitor of let me double check all the work that's going on here is offline. So again, poor decisions. And when you start thinking about it on a day-to-day basis, even if I'm not in a full panic, but I'm not energized, I'm not thinking clearly, I'm not making great decisions, those small decisions start adding up and it wrecks havoc in where you could be and where you're actually operating. Definitely. You need oxygen in your brain, people. I'm talking to you on Facebook and Twitter. A lot of comments, right? A lot of comments that would be avoided with a little oxygen to the brain. I think half my life, pretty much. There was a brain. Oxygen to the brain. I think half my life, pretty much. There was a lot of vodka going to the brain.

I think that was half the problem. So let me play devil's advocate here to help you talk about what you do for people. If I'm sitting at home and I'm like, okay, I just need to breathe more, what's the difference of me hiring a professional like you as opposed to just sit home and do some breathing, eh? Let's start with what that breath would actually be. So again, I use breath tactically,

strategically, and to start shifting limited beliefs. So when we go in the tactical space, what we want to do is we want to redirect this hijack that's happened. So remember, our amygdala back here sees control, prefrontal cortex, the logical part is offline, our body's reacting with stress. Our mind's reacting with stress. Typically, what do we do? Calm down, calm down, get it under control. So we're using our mind to try to steer this 800 pound gorilla of our body that's screaming something isn't right. Again, it doesn't have to be massive. It can be smaller things that we're just not at optimum and we're starting to get that stress. So breath technique that you want to use in this case, two parts to it.

Number one, you want to breathe in. You want to go deep to your belly. Most people, we've forgotten how to do this. Yeah. Nice deep breath. Heard you there. I got a big belly. Nice big belly. fill that thing up

i got one too it's a little off camera it's hidden right but nice deep breath in so what is that doing instead of chest breathing and we're fighting your physiology to get that breath we're letting our belly expand we're expanding the lungs we're filling the lungs, that's sending a signal of safety to our body, which signals up to our brain. We take deep breaths when we're calm. Our body knows that. We can physically tell it. We can mentally tell ourselves, take that breath.

Now, second part, do that breath with the inhale through your nose and an exhale through your mouth longer than the inhale. So say five in, seven out. There you go. And I think that helps the lymph node system too, right? From what I understand. It does. There's a number of different factors that that's doing,

but what we're doing is we're signaling to our vagus nerve, right? Which part that wanders through our body comes up to the amygdala we're sending a signal that we're safe yeah this releases the hijack we start getting blood back up here we start to see options we start to see things differently did you say on the vagus nerve vagus nerve that's correct all right i've never been very safe at some of the tables in Vegas, but that's a different story. We're out on the town. Yeah, so I've heard that helps the breathing in through the nose, or breathing in through the nose and slowly out through the mouth helps kind of clean your sewer system through your lymph nodes, helps process all that crap that you've got going on in there.

Yeah. You're moving. You're also moving, right? Physiologically, that deep breath, you're moving all those organs down below. I had emergency gallbladder surgery because I had gotten, right, what do they say? They say sitting's the new cancer, right? We're sitting all the time. It's horrible for us. And when we're breathing shallow, this whole lower part of our body is just dead, right? There's not much going on. We shift our breathing. We make that a more natural breath to breathe deep. And now what we're doing is we're tactically calming. But as we start to do this strategically, we're introducing those health benefits for us as well.

There you go. I love that word where you're tactically breathing. Like I think of, you know, I think of fighting with that. So I'm like, I think when I tactically breathe, it's when you know i think of fighting with that so i'm like i think when i tactically breathe it's when i brush my teeth for a week and i go out with bad breath and then i just talk to people i really hate enjoy that motherfucker the tactical strike it's comedy it's the weird it's the weird visions that come to my head and this is why i need therapy and probably a rubber room so now there's some of the breath work techniques you're using.

These have been leveraged by top tier athletes, Navy SEALs, FBI agents. I know the Navy SEALs, you know, they have to learn, you know, complex breathing for everything they do, staying underwater. I've seen some of the training they go through. It's crazy. Hell week. Yeah. And that's actually hell week is one of the breathing techniques that they do.

So let's talk about the strategic part so we have a window of tolerance this is our ability to handle chaos right one side of it is hyper arousal fight or flight the other side of it is hypo arousal which is just shut down withdrawal that's where we're more in the survival state let me just shut down and hope someone finds me yeah that's when i go to sleep at night also vodka vegas all of those things good all the things we talked about right the attractive bears so now what we want to do is we want to start expanding that window of tolerance one of the things i share is successful people don't have less stress they just have best better stress management tools doing this breathing and hell week Navy Hell Week was one of the ones that box breathing was created for.

So offline, you're doing this breath. You're inhaling in for a count, say five. So you're tracing, think of a box, right? I'm inhaling for five. I'm holding for five. I'm exhaling for five. I'm holding for five. Simple process.

We start to integrate that into our life what's happening our nervous system two things we're starting to stretch and expand our nervous system science fact this is what's happening it's allowing us to have more expansion more tolerance for chaos as we do this but also when we go into that stressful situation and we go to breathing, we've pre-trained our body that breath equals calm. So now that breath in a stressful situation is even more impactful than if we're just doing the breath on its own. Ah, there you go. When you coach people, when you work with people, what sort of things are they looking at that

they're going to have working with you as opposed to just trying to do this on their own which no one will do they'll do for about five seconds and then they'll quit i have a little bit of a story for this right so when i was younger i don't know if you've ever played the game othello black and white chips it's like i don't know nine by nine or ten by ten grid you put a black chip down three white chips put your black chip down, three white chips, put your black chip down. They all turn black. Pretty straightforward. Pretty simple.

Very easy game. My friend teaches me this. I get a little cocky. I'm like, okay, bring it on. I'm ready to go. Three minutes later, she has utterly destroyed me. She has flipped every chip to her color. All I can do is put my chip down, watch her flip it. There's

not a thing I can do. So sometimes these simple techniques doesn't necessarily mean simple mastery. So when I work with, especially a lot of entrepreneurs, they've hit a plateau, they're limiting out. They don't know what, right? They can't get to that next level. They're capped out at two, $3 million income in their business. They founded it. They don't get to that next level. They're capped out at $2, $3 million income in their business. They founded it. They don't know how to take it past that. So when I start working with them, and Breathwork is one of the many tools I use, we start to come in and take these small incremental improvements,

apply them to their life, and start busting through this. Start getting to what the limiting beliefs are. Start getting into pattern disruption. Start looking at holistically other areas of their life. And I mean, the reality is, and it sounds kind of cocky, but I have clients tell me again and again, you changed my life. And so not only are they achieving their business goals, they're changing their relationship. They're changing their health.

They're more energized health they're more energized they're more calm they're more present and they're able to handle a hell of a lot more stress there you go oh so more stress wait this doesn't sound like a good deal no i'm just kidding because there's more stress always coming folks it's always never ends it's always it's if you i always i always met people they're like it must be so nice, Krista. All the companies, big businesses, and you know, you can do whatever you want. And then, you know, you can just kind of ride it out and have no stress. I'm like, what?

What? You don't understand the, the higher you go, the, the, the more stressful it becomes. It's, I actually, it's easier just to sit around the house and, and do nothing, which is what I do now. But, so there you go. Now,

you know, when I was, I started my second company and I had had ADHD since I was young. And when I was, I mean, I was like 16, I was checking the doorknob 20 times a night before I was trying, when I was trying to go to bed to make sure it was locked.

I think my brother would, he had this sort of type where he would wash his hands until they bled. We had some ADHD going on as kids. Yeah. And get therapy, folks, when you're young, please. For the love of God, I still have ADHD. But I've just learned to manage it well. It's kind of like the vodka. Wait, what?

So the audience is like, what? Is it going to get me? so the audience is like what is the sony when i started my second company in my early 20s i've been 23 i think and it was hard because i was still running the first company and both were just startups and both were both were what do they call it where we were doing it cheap oh sweat labor we were shoestringing it. Yeah. And so I started the second company because I'm an idiot and I was bored. And so I started having panic attacks like every day, anxiety attacks. They kind of put you in the hospital. I just kind of started taking naps to deal with it.

And I would usually explode before the naps and then my heart and chest would pretty much shut everything down and and i'd have to go rest for a while and so finally i went to a doctor and you know i'm like i think i have brain cancer and he goes no you just have anxiety and i go yeah i got fear and anger and misery and everything else thanks doctor i have anxiety great and he's like this is the 90s you know no one really talked about any of this shit back then. And so he says, no, you got him anxiety. And, you know, they put me on Elf and tranquilizers. And I think it was Zoloft at the time. And it really helped until I wasn't on it anymore. But what I started, what I had to learn is he told me something really smart where he said, what you have to do is you have to learn where your triggers are. And so I had to start listening to my body as to where I'd start the pattern of the anxiety attack, which would shut me down.

I mean, it was literally clenching my heart, my chest. I mean, my whole, everything would just. Exactly. Exactly. And so I started figuring out, probably through a little bit of breath work or whatever, that it would begin in my stomach. And my stomach would go to a knot. And then once it went to a knot, it was like game over. Just like everything would start collapsing.

Yeah, yeah. And so I had to start listening to, okay, I feel that clinch. Okay, we got to breathe. We got to try and get out of this a different way. And by recognizing that first step that my brain was taking, that really helped me. Probably could have used a whole lot more breath work for, like, why are you having this attack anyway in the first place in your brain before your body does it? But that's another story, folks, from the show. And so that really helped me. And so I agree with what you talk about with technology.

This is leading me actually up to another thing, people who deal with trauma. And that's usually a lot of what they're doing. We mentioned in your bio that you help people with this that are trauma-based. So let's talk about that a little bit. So two things I want to touch on. First, one of the things, I loved your description because that is so spot on what starts to happen. And it's one of the techniques, one of the tools that is so spot on what starts to happen. And it's one of the, one of the techniques, one of the tools that I share with clients is BPM. So when your

heart rate starts to go up like beats per minute, right? BPM, but I teach it as breath physiology mindset. So breath is the first part. We're going to use breath the way that we described earlier to release that hijack and allow us some other options p physiology you talked about the mind-body connection you could feel this anxiety coming on you can feel it in your body and your body's starting to react as the anxiety increases i could i could feel you talking about almost that collapse and it going down to your gut what we don't often realize is the mind-body connection. They did a study in the UK. They had clinically depressed people smile in the mirror for 10 minutes.

And it was as effective as Prozac in eliminating the symptoms of depression. Wow. So think through that again. 10 minutes of smiling in the mirror is as effective as a medication for a clinically depressed patient. Wow. And there's more. There's so many studies. I work through these with clients. There's clearly a path that our body, whether we smile, how we show up, how we hold our physiology is signaling to our brain what to focus on. And likewise, what we read, what we set our focus on is then signaling to our body what to do. Right.

So separate study, they took college students. They gave two sets of exams. One was just go take these five words, make a sentence out of them. The second, same thing, but one had a set of words related to aging and the other didn't. The real part of this test was when they had the college students walk down the hallway to turn the test in, the college students who worked with the test related to the aging words walked more slowly than the other test. And they had no idea they had done this. They claimed they didn't do it. And they had no recognition that they had worked with words related to aging only. But that's the path between both, right?

Mind and body. Our body is sending signals to our mind on what to focus on. Our focus is sending signals back to our body how to respond. So that is, you started describing that with what was going on and how you got out of that. And that's absolutely part of that pathway. Part of the BPM is the breath, the physiology, right? Because that is tied to our mindset. That's tied to our focus. There you go. And trauma, part of what trauma is, is fight or flight reaction. When you have trauma, especially from childhood and stuff you know

people gaslight you people muck about with you yeah people seem to manipulate you you tend to overreact to it although some people do need you know some overreaction but not all don't do it it's just it's reactive it's not it's not pleasant it's not good to get your blood pressure up either calm down you're just you down. You think you're yelling at somebody and really you're just wrecking your heart with your blood pressure and stuff. And so yeah, trauma and fight or flight are really tied together. Yeah. So let's talk about trauma. Trauma is anything that overwhelmed our nervous system at that moment. And a lot of it does come down to childhood because we don't have the same adaptive strategies

and we don't have the same support. We aren't able to take care of ourselves. We're totally dependent on these parents that are showing up or not showing up in some cases. And so we're children learning these adaptive strategies and we go, oh, this works. And what happens? We carry that with us throughout our life

without sometimes being fully aware of it. And so a situation comes up that feels like in our body, this event that we didn't know how to handle 20 years ago, it overwhelms us and throws us into fight, flight, fawn, right? Where we go into people pleasing.

We just try to make the other person happy or, or freeze. We just lock up and we don into people-pleasing. We just try to make the other person happy or freeze. We just lock up and we don't know what to do. Yeah. The Fawn, fight, fire, Fawn. I've never heard of that. But that makes sense because, you know, like sometimes if you're, you know, under the realm of a narcissist and there's only 5% of people are narcissists,

people stop it. I keep going on dates with the last 20 boyfriends that have all been narcissists and ptsd from it now and it's you know it could just be you you have a mirror anyway you know i i can see that you know there there are a lot of people that try and people please i mean i know a lot of husbands that try to make their wife happy when they're when they made their wife's unhappy and so they're like if i can just if i can just please her there everything will be fine and usually that just makes things worse but that's a that's for another show so that was me for that was me for 25 years that was my that was my reaction yeah that was my reaction yeah yeah yeah there you go the so it sounds like you've figured out the best way to resolve that you're

now sharing that with people how do people on board with you get to know you better? How do your services work in your coaching? I see several different things offered on your website here for coaching. And I think you do some speaking as well. I do. So johnhullcoaching.com, it's the best way to get in contact with me. I offer, I work with individuals directly, one-on-one coaching. I also have breathwork sessions that we can just go deep, focus on a specific belief to work with that. And I also have a new course that I'm extremely happy with that I built for anyone from college students, busy parents, busy executives, or anybody who is, can face stress or anxiety. So I've got a two-week course that goes into the science of the body-mind connection on stress, what our natural stress response is, how we can redirect

that and use breath tactically and strategically to redirect that stress response, but also be able to expand our ability to handle more stress. And that's on the website as well. That's the Breathe Easier course that I have. There you go. And so you can work with people. Do you usually do over Zoom? Is that what you do? I do virtually, yeah. The majority of I work with people across the US, Canada,

even the UK, and it's all virtual. There you go. It's so great with the Zoom thing that we can all do now. Of course, I've been doing it forever. But COVID, i was like how come everyone's getting in my pool i've been working at home since 2004 what are you people doing i get out of my just get out of my space so there you go anything we haven't touched on that you want to tease out to people or cover more of the services of what you do you know chris just

again i love to talk about that mind-body connection there is so much more to explore there but it is it is absolutely fascinating how much our thoughts impact our physiology our physiology impact our thoughts and just reassuring people there is so much more out there that until you start exploring it you don't even know about and the transformation that makes in your life i know it from myself i know it from the clients I work with. It is heads and shoulders above what you even think you might get out of working with me directly or somebody like me. I know.

And if you breathe deep, you hold yourself different. Your physiology changes. For me as a leader, having my physiology in the right place makes a difference. If I'm tired and lethargic, I'm just kind of hanging down, it's very different than when usually I leave the gym and I have my backs in, is, you know, where I'm full chested, my head's up, and I'm in full breathing, you know, because I've been working out in the gym mode. And it just makes a difference in how you feel too,

how you come across to other people, but also how you feel internally. Amy Cuddy did an outstanding experiment on this. So she did one where she had men and women hold either a Superman pose, like the holding your arms out or Wonder Woman with the hands on the hips. And she found at the end of just five to 10 minutes of them holding this pose, they took more appropriate risk. They were willing to take risk, but appropriate risk, not like just risking it all on the roulette wheel, but better investments, better decisions, better, right? More rational.

So again, you talk about coming out of the gym, great time. Shift your, you can feel it. You can feel these things. And the key is starting to pick up on these body signals and aligning what you do to make the most impact of that. Make the most impact of how we are. We show up in these bodies, right? Don't fool ourselves that we're just perfect thinking machines.

And that's what we're all about. There you go. Thank you very much for coming on. We really appreciate it, John. Give us your dot coms. Where can people find you on the interwebs? JohnHallCoaching.com. There you go.

Thanks, John. And hopefully we've helped a lot of people, especially people that are trauma, have trauma issues. One plug I'll get, because we talk a lot about trauma on the show. If you feel like you're reacting and having these emotional anxiety crises, a lot of times people's trauma gets blocked out from childhood because they can't deal with it at the time and the brain kind of packs it away. So if you find you're being reactive that way, please go see a professional therapist health plug there 1-800 whatever go find it thanks for tuning in go to goodreads.com for chest chris voss linkedin.com for chest chris

voss or if you get anxiety watching the show you might want to see a therapist or i can't help you there it's the show um and all those crazy places around the internet thanks for tuning in be good to each other stay safe and we'll see you guys next time