The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Building a Second Brain: A Proven Method to Organize Your Digital Life and Unlock Your Creative Potential by Tiago Forte

Episode Date: June 14, 2022

Building a Second Brain: A Proven Method to Organize Your Digital Life and Unlock Your Creative Potential by Tiago Forte A revolutionary approach to enhancing productivity, creating flow, and vastly increasing your ability to capture, remember, and benefit from the unprecedented amount of information all around us. For the first time in history, we have instantaneous access to the world’s knowledge. There has never been a better time to learn, to contribute, and to improve ourselves. Yet, rather than feeling empowered, we are often left feeling overwhelmed by this constant influx of information. The very knowledge that was supposed to set us free has instead led to the paralyzing stress of believing we’ll never know or remember enough. Now, this eye-opening and accessible guide shows how you can easily create your own personal system for knowledge management, otherwise known as a Second Brain. As a trusted and organized digital repository of your most valued ideas, notes, and creative work synced across all your devices and platforms, a Second Brain gives you the confidence to tackle your most important projects and ambitious goals. Discover the full potential of your ideas and translate what you know into more powerful, more meaningful improvements in your work and life by Building a Second Brain.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain now here's your host chris voss hi folks it's voss here from the chris voss show.com the chris voss show.com what was the crack there at the end what's going on with that i need to have my voice checked thanks for tuning in guys we certainly appreciate you as always, being here.

And, of course, remember, the Chris Voss Show is the family that loves you but doesn't judge you. Maybe slightly. No, it doesn't. When it does judge you, it judges you because you haven't referred the show to your family, friends, or relatives. Please refer the show to them. Tell them to go to youtube.com, 4chesschrissvoss.

They can subscribe at iTunes and, let's see, anywhere in the world, really. You can even do Audible and Amazon as well. Go to goodreads.com, 4ch, Chris Voss. They can subscribe at iTunes and anywhere in the world, really. You can even do Audible and Amazon as well. Go to goodreads.com, Fortress, Chris Voss. All my groups on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram. Subscribe to the big LinkedIn newsletter and all those crazy things that are going on over there. So we're excited to announce my new book is coming out. It's called Beacons of Leadership, Inspiring Lessons of Success in Business and Innovation. It's going to be coming out on October 5th, 2021.

And I'm really excited for you to get a chance to read this book. It's filled with a multitude of my insightful stories, lessons, my life, and experiences in leadership and character. I give you some of the secrets from my CEO Entrepreneur Toolbox that I use to scale my business success, innovate, and build a multitude of companies. I've been a CEO for, what is it, like 33, 35 years now. We talk about leadership, the importance of leadership, how to become a great leader, and how anyone can become a great leader as well. Or order the book wherever fine books are sold. Today, as always, we have another amazing author on the show.

Tiago Forte is on the show with us today. His new book is coming out June 14th, 2022. And I think you're going to love it. He's actually going to help us build better brains or something like that. We're going to find out exactly. The author of the book is now titled Building a Second Brain, a proven method to organize your digital life and unlock your creative potential. And if anybody knows me, of course, most of you have been listening for 12 years, you're like, Chris does need a second brain.

Can we get that thing going on? He is one of the world's foremost experts on productivity. He has taught more than 20,000 people worldwide through his programs and writes and speaks on how technology can help knowledge workers revolutionize their personal effectiveness. His online course, Building a Second Brain, has produced more than 5,000 graduates from over 70 countries, and it draws on experience in academic disciplines such as information science, practical fields such as user, or experience, I'm sorry, experience design. Clearly, I need some help here.

And work on his top organizations, leaders in Silicon Valley. Welcome to the show, Tiago. How are you? I'm good. Great to be here, Chris. There you go. And as you can tell, I am in need of a second brain. So I probably be the first one to buy your book. Give us your plug so we can order it up on the interwebs. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of people can relate. We live in a time where we've put way too many responsibilities on our first brains, our biological brains. Our brains basically have not changed in 200,000 years biologically, you know, in evolution terms. And I would say we have a few more responsibilities, a few more things we're trying to do today versus 200,000 years ago. So it's time time to upgrade it's time to upgrade our paleolithic

brains to the modern age and that's what my book is about there you go so how does this brain work does it grow at the side is it it can yeah you can just follow the hard drive right here yeah it's just good like an add-on and then did we get your.com so if you can find your other webs i think we did didn't we building a second brain.com is where people can find everything. There you go. I clearly am in need of this. And, of course, we're doing three podcasts today, so I'm losing half my brain as I'm going. Normally we just do like one or two, but they're like, let's do three.

Let's go, baby. So give us an overview of the book, if you would, kind of a nice teaser detail that can get people to pick this up. Yeah, happy to. So, you know, I'm really getting this trend that's been kind of behind the scenes for a number of years called digital note-taking, also known as knowledge management, which is the practice of using technology, using your software, your mobile devices, your computer, not just to, you know, browse the web and check emails and do stuff like that, but as an extension of your mind to really use it as this lifelong repository of all the stuff that you value, but that you can't or don't want to, or don't feel like storing in your own brain. Ideas, insights, theories you have, quotes you read from books, excerpts from podcasts like this one, things you learn from classes, from from podcasts like this one things you learn from classes from conferences there's all this material that we now have access to which your brain cannot uh remember should go in your second brain and should we should we be doing that or should we

be forcing our brain to remember all that stuff i would argue you are already doing that i would argue that have you ever like lost your phone for even a few minutes and it felt like a part of you was missing yeah yeah it's like oh it was like that feeling of oh my gosh i've just lost a limb yeah you do you're like where did i put it and then i have to do the find my phone thing and you know it turns out it's in the bathroom or something exactly yeah so to me that is like a sign that that's evidence that our, our phones, our technology now is like as important to us as our hand, our ear, our, you know, foot. And that's not something I think that we really realized that we fully,

you know, become aware of. And I'm trying to spread the awareness. And then once you're aware of it, you want to do it better. There's actually a more actually more intentional systematic more effective way of treating technology as an extension of yourself so we should be using technology as a second brain then that's exactly it that's i would i would say it already is that's how it was designed technology is a thinking machine so let's let's put it to use for us hang on let me talk to my phone think of better crap you moron a stupid second brain i don't know it didn't it's not saying anything that's kind of so what are some ways that we can make a better spill a second bread or brain with this technology yeah i mean happy to get into some of my my specific you know recommendations let's see

where do you want to start like does it depend on the phone? This whole Apple Android thing? I don't know. You know, it does insofar as you need to pick an app, right? So there is this category called digital notes apps, which include apps like Apple notes, pre-install on every Apple device. I think Android has something similar. I use Google keep. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Google Keep. I think there's a notes, but I think Google Keep is the notes, I think. Yeah. Most of the major tech companies have one, like Apple has notes. Microsoft has Microsoft OneNote. Then there's third-party programs that you can download like Notion, Evernote, Obsidian. There's a whole range of options now. Yeah. Evernote's something that I use if I never want to look at anything ever again.

Like I just put stuff in there. I put stuff in, I've been on Evernote's something that I use if I never want to look at anything ever again. Like I just put stuff in there. I've been on Evernote since they started. And I have stuff in there that like I'll go back and look at it like every five years. I'll be like, what the hell was I doing then? It's almost like Google Photos. It's like an archival dig of like, what stupid shit was I reading back then? And never read again. that's that's a good starting point but that's what we're trying to shift is the like archiving which is fine just good to more like active you know active memory active retrieval ah so i use key i use google

key for my like shopping list because i always get to the store and like, what the hell do I want to buy? And I'm like, Oh, there's Oreos. That's important. And then I don't buy anything else. And you know, forget the eggs and milk. So note-taking is good. I use Google tasks as well. And of course these, both these environments like Google and Apple, they have this ecosphere, like I think you're referring to where you can have like, you know, your mail and everything all put together. Yeah, that's it. I mean, this is the thing. Once people start just looking around at what they're using, most of us are using on a daily basis, like one or two dozen different apps. Wow. Right. And what are those apps doing at a high level? They're all taking in information, doing something to it, manipulating it, changing it, reorganizing it, and then using that information to accomplish something.

Usually being sold to advertisers so they can sell us products. Exactly. That is its main purpose. Making money for Google. Sometimes we are also productive with it once in a while. Yeah, there you go so you you help us be better productive with it and how to use these depositories better is there a system that you can tease out or do you talk in the book about a system on how to organize better and you know use these better i do yeah i have a methodology

that i that is actually the main chapters of the book called CODE, which stands for C-O-D-E, which stands for capture, organize, distill, and express. I'm happy to go through those. But basically, this is what we all are doing with information all the time. We're taking it in, capturing, or organizing it in some way by some category. We are distilling it, deciding what are the main points that we want to make use of. And then we are expressing it. We're using it, communicating it, implementing it, applying it. So all I'm doing is trying to recognize what's already happening and then to do it a little more kind of systematically, a little more intentionally. And the benefits that people have when they do so are just really, really amazing. Yeah. I mean, being better at all this sort of stuff. You know, I've sat down over times and been like, I think I started using Google Tasks recently and the way it integrates with my calendar is so wonderful.

Are things like Calendly that I use? Like when we schedule people on the show, we use Calendly to schedule people. Is that another way of using a second brain? It is, yeah. So your second brain is the entire ecosystem of different apps that you use. Yeah. Calendly could be part of your second brain, your calendar system, a Google calendar. There's a lot of different parts and different people have

different emphasis. Like I imagine as a podcast host, you know, the scheduling process is very important to you. Like it needs to be done right. Yeah. Or just done for that matter. Or just done. Yeah. For other done for that matter. Or just done. Yeah. For other people, it's their notes are the most important part. Other people's, their tasks,

other people, it's their project management platform. It's like, this is, this is why it's a personal process. It's not, I wish I could just like, Oh,

download my second brain and just like have it. But no, it's like this, it's this process that you go through kind of customizing it for yourself. Awesome. Awesome. Well, what are some other tips or tricks we can tease out about the book? Yeah. I mean, what I would say for people who are kind of new to this, I would say get started just capturing one note a day. That's like the best place to get started. Like just think of when you're listening to this, did you learn one thing today? Did you hear one interesting idea?

Did you hear one interesting quote? Did you read one interesting, I don't know, excerpt from an article? Is there one thing in this conversation that you found interesting? Hopefully there was at least one thing. Take out a notes app, whether that's the built-in app on your phone

or download Evernote or Notion or one of these other ones. It really doesn't matter so much which one you use. And write that down. Try that for a week. Try it for two weeks or 30 days, and then look at what you've collected. And that is your starting point. That is like the, the, the entry point to what we call building a second brain. That is awesome. Is there any way to build a third brain? So actually it's funny you say that I'm starting to think of the third brain as basically your network like the

internet your friend your colleagues business partners people who follow you online which is massive right like the third brain the collective brain is infinitely bigger than yours but here's the thing is to to really take advantage of that network you have to give it something right like you you're you're publishing these episodes. That's sort of like your gift. That's your contribution. And then you get back all these, probably I'm guessing insights and feedback

and questions and different things, but you wouldn't be receiving those things if you didn't put out something in the first place, right? Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, it's mostly court ordered stuff that I have to do to make it for community service. But other than that.

That counts. Hey, that's your to do to make it for community service. But other than that, that counts. Hey, that's, that's a, that's a, that's your, it does. Where's my judge time.

So no, this, this all makes sense. And having methodology and people using it, fortunately, I kind of, I don't know, grew up on when social media grew up and, and started adapting this.

I used to subscribe to like everything. And I've tested like, you know, all the different tasks apps and different things like, so this is pretty good. And you've been doing this for a long time, teaching people this method and stuff. I have. Yeah. It's over, over 10 years at this point. And, and I guess it really enhances productivity. Do you have any stats or what you found that it can make a big difference in someone's productivity? Yeah. You know, it's difficult to measure productivity precisely because it really differs

based on the person. Ah, yeah. Whether they apply what you teach them. Yes, yes. And also what it looks like, right? Like a dancer or a musician. Like their definition of productivity is completely unlike you or me, you know. So it's difficult to directly measure productivity, but most of the material,

almost all the material in the book came from my course that I teach, that I've been teaching for about six years. And we measure the before and after results. And people have on average across, at this point, more than 5,000 graduates, an 83% increase in the confidence, the confidence that they have a system, they know how to use it. If they put something in it, it doesn't become a, you know, a digital dumpster, but actually can be recalled. So that's, I mean, that's a pretty amazing result for what a four week course. Yeah. And, and so people can kind of get a concise version of that in your book or a teaser on it for the course. Exactly. It's the shorter, more distilled, bite-sized version

of what normally takes us four very intensive weeks to cover. And when people take your course online, what's that experience like? Yeah, I mean, the course is a whole experience within itself. It's less like a course, what you probably think of as a course, and more like a conference. So I teach, I'm like the main instructor, but then we have a group of around a dozen coaches and trainers. So each person teaching their own version of what a second brain is.

They're all from different professions, different ages, different walks of life. They live in different regions. And so it's almost like we all come together and we look at many different examples of what a second brain is and looks like. And then we have usually over a thousand students as part of the, we teach the course in cohorts, like all in one big group. So we usually have a thousand students from like, you know, as you read over 70 countries. So we just all come together for this gigantic kind of summit on second brains.

And it's just a, it's just a fun time. Well, that's awesome, man. This is awesome. Well, I'm glad you wrote this book so that people can get a teaser for it.

They could find out more about how to get it. Anything more you want to tease out on the book? I would just say that the powerful thing about this is that you're already doing it. You're already spending over 11 hours per day on average on devices consuming content. Right? So it's not a question of, oh, am I going to build a second brain or not? It's more like, okay, you have some kind of system, whether you think of it that way or not.

And whether you learn from me or someone else, I'd really encourage everyone to put more intention and thought into it because, you know, the two most powerful forces in the world today, I think, are knowledge and technology. And what we are doing is knowledge management using technology. And so putting the two together is just pretty powerful. Yeah. I mean, one of the things I learned a long time ago was the importance of writing stuff down. And for me, now it's putting it in. I'll email myself a note in the middle of the night or something. I'll have an idea and I'll, you know, so I'll just email myself a note. Like you go do that. Sometimes

I'll put in the task list sometimes, you know, like, I don't know, saying I like, or something will go into the Google, the Google, uh, forgot what it's called. Keep kind of weird name, but, and so using that makes it so that I don't have to think about stuff as much. One of the things I found, especially being OCD and ADHD, was I was obsessing over stuff because I was trying to remember it so I didn't forget, you know, something I was going to do the next day. And so by writing it down, my brain could finally let me go to sleep because it wasn't like, okay, well, he's written it down, so he's not going to forget that kind of crap. And that seemed to really help me out. It's a powerful lesson.

It's such a powerful lesson. If you have an idea or a reminder or something you have to think about or do, if you don't write that down, you think that's just going to disappear? No, it's just going to keep cycling and looping through your brain all day and all night until you capture it in some place that you trust. Yeah. And that's why having these resources is good. Well, it's been wonderful to have you on. Thank you very much for coming. Give us your.com so people can find you on the interwebs. Yeah, it was fun.

You can find everything at buildingasecondbrain.com. There you go. And guys, order up the book, Building a Second Brain, A Proven Method to Organize Your Digital Life and Unlock Your Creative Potential. Comes out June 14th, 2022. I can't believe we're halfway through the year, man.

Wow. Guys, go to youtube.com, 4Chess Chris Voss. Hit the bell notification button. Go to Goodreads, youtube.com, 4Chess Chris Voss. All the groups on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, and all those crazy places. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe.

We'll see you guys next time.