The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Building a Winning Career: A complete guide to securing and thriving in your ideal senior role by William Cowan

Episode Date: October 16, 2023

Building a Winning Career: A complete guide to securing and thriving in your ideal senior role by William Cowan https://amzn.to/3PVGfsl Buildingawinningcareer.com Finalist in The Australian Career Book Award 2022 - Hosted by The Royal Society of Arts Oceania Do you know how to seek out and win your next executive role? Are you well prepared to take the next steps in your career? If not, you may fail to reach your full potential and miss out on building a winning career. Most career advice available today does not address the needs of senior job seekers. Building a Winning Career sets out a proven process that has worked for hundreds of senior executives, delivering superior results for those considering their next career move. In Building a Winning Career, William Cowan describes strategies that best position you for success while avoiding common traps. Filled with Practical examples, this book will help you: prepare and manage your job search for best results build your network to be an exponential multiplier for you be confident and ready when you meet recruiting teams launch yourself in a new role and nail it take active steps to think through how to manage your career

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com.

The Chris Voss Show. As the opera lady sings it, it doesn't get more official or classy than this. So if you do come up to me in public and you sing the Chris Voss Show, as people tend to do, I expect it to be in acapella or soprano or whatever that, you know,

I don't know these terms. I flunk second grade people. Welcome to the big show, my family and friends. The Chris Voss Show family is the family that loves you and doesn't judge you. And don't you forget it ever. As always, give us five-star reviews on the iTunes. Go to goodreads.com for Chris Foss. He just threatened us.

Go to, let's see, Chris Foss 1 on TikTok. Go to LinkedIn.com for Chris Foss. Subscribe to that newsletter over there. It's really good. And YouTube.com for Chris Foss 1 on TikTok. Go to LinkedIn.com Fortress Chris Voss. Subscribe to that newsletter over there. It's really good and YouTube.com Fortress Chris Voss. Today we have an amazing author on the show and if you haven't noticed yet, we always have amazing authors on the show. It's like really amazing.

I can't even think of another verb. It's that amazing. William Cohen joins us on the show today. Cowan? William Cowan? Cowan joins us on the show today. His newest, William Cowan, Cowan joins us on the show today. His newest book came out November 16th, 2021. It's called Building a Winning Career, A Complete Guide to Securing and Thriving in Your Ideal Senior Role.

And we're going to be talking to him. He's Harvard trained too as well. So we know that he's smart. He's very smart he's got the brainiacs uh going on there and all the good stuff uh he has over 30 years of experience as senior management positions he's held board chairman roles in public and private companies he graduated from harvard business school with high distinction and i flunked out no i'm just kidding uh in addition to his uh executive roles, William has provided career coaching to over 1,000 professionals around the globe.

He is a master at helping people to build their careers. He is passionate about helping everyone, whether they be graduates or senior executives, to build more successful careers. He's even helping idiot boy Chris Voss here who flunked second grade. Wait, why is that in his bio? He has structured and formalized his coaching process, and he has set out this rigorous process in his book called Building a Winning Career, and now you can get it. It's available worldwide.

Welcome to the show, William. How are you? Thank you, Chris. Thank you very much for the introduction. There you go. That was a very insightful bio. I had no idea. You knew I was an idiot.

So give us a.com. Where can people find you on the interwebs? Well, it's buildingawinningcareer.com. That's my website. And, of course, if they want the book, it's amazon.com. There you go. It's all about that Amazon. I think in Australia there, you guys have a big chain for book sales, don't you?

There's a company down there I know that markets my book that's kind of special. So give us a 30,000 overview. Tell us what building a winning career is about, and why should we want a winning career? Isn't losing career any fun? Well, that's a good question. The book itself came about because people are likely to have more and more jobs in their career. You know, the academics are saying we're going to have, I don't know, 10 or 15 jobs and three careers. But there's no one really helping you get from one job to the next it's a problem it's it sounds

good having so many jobs but how do you get from one to the other and that's what the book is about really trying to help people understand what how they can present themselves best in order to really build a thriving happy successful career successful career, not only for them, but their families, their community, and so on. So, and winning is not becoming chief executive. Winning could be just like you, you know, you're someone who's very successful at what they do. It's not just being head of the organization.

It's about thriving, enjoying what you're doing, contributing, looking back. Most of us are going to live, if we look after ourselves, to 75 or 80 or 85 or 90. And I'd like you to be able to look back when you're at that age and say, wow, I made some good career decisions. Yeah. And like you say, I mean, when I grew up and probably when you grew up, there was kind of this mantra of business where you work for one company most of your life, you got a gold watch at the end, and that was it. But now, you know, people turn over a lot with COVID.

We saw a lot of turnover with the great resignation, you know, people saying, hey, you know what? If we're going to have this COVID business and I look at the quality of my life, I'm going to try and pick stuff that, you know, I feel better about doing or that appeals to me more. A lot of people started their own companies. And even now, you know, with the union strikes we're seeing here in America, people are switching jobs. And they're like, hey, I want to kind of, it seems like this younger generation, this Gen Z generation, they're kind of more into jobs that, you know, help the environment or do some social causes or supports things that they think are important.

And so they're probably going to have a few jobs throughout your career. Plus, if you're like me, you're going to get fired a lot. So there's that. Yeah, it's very interesting. It's happened quite quickly, really. I've worked with one man who his father had been at a bank for 45 years. And his father was really shaken up that the guy I was working with had lost his job. And, you know, how come you're not good enough to hang on to your job?

You know, I've had my job for 45 years. That's brutal, man. But it's happening all the time now. You know, in fact, you're sort of suspect if you've been at the same place more than 10 years now or at the same job more than 10 years. What's wrong with you? You know, you haven't had the initiative to move. You haven't got the capacity to do better or differently or explore things. Part of the book is trying to

open up options for you so that you can understand what's out there. A lot of people are much too passive. They just sit around and if they lose their job, they start, they look at the ad, you know, the job ads. But really, my book's all about how can you take an active approach to managing your career and how can you as a result have a much more interesting and fulfilling life there you go now i you know a lot of people they don't really start thinking about their career you you correct me if i'm wrong so this is kind of the form of a question but it seems like a lot of people don't start thinking about their career until they kind of establish one. It's kind of an afterthought where they're like, oh, hey, I guess I had a career this last little while.

But you're talking about how people want to plan on what they're building and spend some time in it. Why is it important to plan that? Well, you know, I don't think you can plan your career. It's too hard, too complicated, but you can plan ahead. You can think about how can i position myself well i um you know i i i mentor some young people who are in their late 20s and exactly what you say is correct they think about the next promotion or the next assessment at work next review they're not really thinking about where do I want to be in sort of five years' time. And I would like them to think a lot more about that because if they open up,

if they think about it, they're probably going to try harder to open up different opportunities. Rather than being caught short, suddenly you find you don't have a job, you've actually thought about it and you're prepared. You know what options are out there for you and you're not shocked. You're actually exhilarated in some ways. I'd like a new job. This is not really the job for me. Just as you pointed out earlier, many people are unhappy in their jobs. They feel that it's not the right place for them, but they haven't really taken the initiative to explore other opportunities. So how do we prepare and manage, as you talk about in your book, for our job searches to get the best results?

Well, I say there's a process, which I said out in the book, that takes 380 pages. So it's not a trivial process. Most people prepare for a marathon by walking around the block twice. I say you've got to run a lot if you want to prepare for a marathon. And it's the same if you had a singing analogy. You wouldn't go into a singing competition without rehearsing and without preparing the music that you were going to perform and without understanding what the judges were looking for, all those kind of things. And yet, a lot of people are very casual about this, very tactical, just, oh, I don't have a job anymore, I better look at the ads, job ads, you know, and I'm saying that's the wrong

way to do it. And it's, you're much better off if you can prepare now that the process itself is it's got a number of steps the first one is really understanding what makes you special most people don't know what makes them special and they make it up as they go along and it's not convincing and in fact they get it wrong i say you've got to ask other people who've worked with you and who have seen you in action and have seen you when you're happy and effective and you've got to ask them what makes you special i had a senior law partner and she thought her law this expertise made her special it turned out when we asked people, they said, you're fun to work with. You're the only lawyer we know who's fun to work with.

Oh, wow. This is a bit scary, really. But it had amazing resonance when we talked about this with other people. So the first thing is what makes you special. And by the way, you've got to be able to explain it quickly. It's no good going into 20 minutes. Can I just provide pictures of me on the short bus with a helmet on?

When I want to tell people I'm special? Because I did flunk second grade. Well, the odd thing is you can't tell people what makes you special. You've got to say, other people say I'm special for the following reasons. I get that a lot too. Yeah, well,

if at the end of this program if i say you're special then that's compelling if you say you're special it's not that compelling you would say that wouldn't you in the south they tell me i'm special and then they follow it with bless your little heart yeah well if you know what that means in the south of america the statistics show that people don't know what makes them special. And it's quite often the way they behave, not their expertise. It's are they decent people?

Are they kind? Do they deliver what they promise? You know, all these kind of things turn out to be really important. In fact, there's some research that shows that your expertise is only 10% of your future success. 30% is the way you present yourself. And 60% is who knows about you. Are you visible? Do you get exposure to senior people?

That sort of thing. And most young people aren't taught this. They're taught how to be experts. They're not taught about their branding, their image, and they're not taught about getting exposure to senior people. I know young people are special too, but that's another thing. That's the first step, by the way. There's four others, but I'll do them very quickly.

One is to figure out where you want to explore. You can't just sort of wander off into the jungle and try to work out the way out of the jungle you've got to have some areas to investigate to explore the next thing is you've got to prepare to meet people part of the process of finding a job is to build emotional connections with people. Just submitting your CV is very low probability of success. You know, you don't have any personal relationship. And then you've got to meet people, and I say you've got to meet 50 people. So it sounds pretty daunting, but, in fact, it's quite easy to do. If you ask other people to help you meet people,

and people will help you if you ask. It's amazing how few people ask for help. They try to do it themselves. And then finally, when you're getting into an interview process, how do you handle the interviews? Most people are too passive. They sit there and answer questions. They don't ask questions. I say you they don't ask questions i say you've

got to ask you're going to understand what the job is what what will make you successful in this job what are the challenges do i have the resources to deliver that sort of thing so you really have to be sure that you have an interest in the job and that you're you're not you're just looking for a job you're really interested in the job you're really curious and it kind of communicates that you're also trying to qualify them like do i really want to work here yeah that's dead right the um first of all i say that you need to there's need to be five things you should think about when you're looking at a job one is are your values consistent with the company and with your boss and that's hard to figure out because everyone's on their best behavior, of course, in an interview process.

But the second thing is can you make a big difference? Because I don't want you just shuffling paper or treading water. Can you make a difference? But the other problem there is will they let you make a difference? They may not have the money or the resources or they may not have the risk appetite or they may not trust you enough to let you make a difference the the third thing is um what about your family and uh we don't want you where you're traveling four weeks a month you know we we need the job to suit, to work well with you

and your family. Otherwise, you know, it could turn into a catastrophe somewhere. I also say, you should be looking at where it leads, you know, are they developing you? Is there some, is there something happening that will help you grow? It's no good just being up the creek without a paddle in three years' time. No, are you learning? And a lot of young people are working for people who don't develop them. This is a big problem. That's why they leave. They feel like they're not developing themselves.

And finally, will you be paid enough? I don't see why you should go backwards in any job move. But it's all about value, not cost. You've got to show that you are valuable and convince them. And your point about selling yourself, how do you sell yourself? Well, you sell yourself by asking good questions, I think, rather than telling people what a great person you are. That's a good idea.

I normally just stand on the corner in a miniskirt and that's how I excel myself, but that hasn't been working out well. I think that could be fairly disastrous. Don't do that, folks. Don't do that, kids. I think you've got to build warm relationships, not

just stand on the corner, by the way. They are warm relationships for about... They could be. that's true yeah yeah but uh the pay is awful and so is i don't know the benefits are horrible so uh they just give you free needles i know what that means but uh moving on uh no this is important you know people i i've interviewed people and i'll be like, I got any questions about the job? And they're like, no. And you're like, what if I just give you a job as the guy who feeds the lions by hand? Does that work for you? I mean, you know, I mean, you want to know more maybe

about what you're going to do? Or I don't know, you know, we'll have you as the guy who cleans up the monkey flinging poo at the zoo there. You know, it's always interesting the odd thing is that most job descriptions don't describe the job they describe the functional skills but they don't tell you that you're they show you the shop window they don't show you the fact that you're going to be working in the basement and you're up to your ears in water and the power doesn't work um so it's your job to find out what's the real job. That's

part of what you've got to investigate. And in a lot of interviews, people sit there and just wait for questions. I'd say they should be asking questions about what is it you're trying to do in this business? Where do you want to go? What are the challenges? How can I help you get there rather than just answering questions? Yeah, because if you just want a job, I mean, to me, it separates the people who just want a job from the people who actually want a career. And of course, that's what your book is about, how to build a winning career. And so it just makes all the difference in what people, you know, want to take and do and how to get there, I guess. Yeah, no, it's, this is for people, the book is for people who are trying to build a

career and not just get another job to fill in the day and get a pay package. So, but I think a lot of young people are like that. And it's surprising how many people are buying the book for their kids. And not that I think the kids are going to read it, by the way, but the kids might listen to podcasts, even if they don't read the book. And therefore they'll catch, they will get some ideas. And the reason I'm, I'm quite keen on podcasts really is that it does get to a different audience.

So people who don't want to read can, they will listen. Yeah. Or at least they hope they will. I mean, if it's interesting enough, that's kind of the idea. If it's interesting,

they will. And, and so you bring up some good points. Was that all five of the points? Yes, I think so. Values, make a difference, where am I going, family, and income. There you go. Now, one of the things you talk about that's important too that I think a lot of smart people do nowadays,

and there's very few of them, is how to build your network to be an exponential multiplier for you is how you put it in the book. What does that mean? I think I know what it means, but tell the listeners. Well, to some degree, it's to do with this problem of how to get visibility. And most people really feel quite uncomfortable about building their network. They think it's, you know, they're embarrassed. They don't know how to do it.

The problem is they don't do it properly. The advice you get if you ask someone in the street is, you know, meet people, have coffees. I say you've got to have working sessions. You've got to actually ask the person for help. By the way, ask for advice, you'll get a job. Ask for a job, you'll get advice. We're always asking for advice.

We're never asking for a job. And so in the networking process, the last thing you want to do is ask for a job because people will freeze up. They haven't got a clue. How the hell would I get Chris Voss a job? It's beyond my capacity. But it's the same with everyone. If I turn up, how would they get me a job? They wouldn't know how to do it. But they are very happy to talk about themselves and their career and what they did right, what they did wrong, and if they're in your shoes, what would they do? They're the kind of issues you should be discussing with them.

And what we want them to do is to introduce you to more people. And it works. It's quite interesting that you need three jumps to get where you're going. For instance, I had one person I worked with. He went back to his first employer and who he had a very good relationship with. And that person introduced him to a consulting firm. And then the consulting firm introduced him to a client. And the client hired him. So it was kind of previous boss, consulting firm, client. It's just amazing.

Of the thousand people I've worked with, I would say the vast majority have found their job as a result of networking and this three-step process. In fact, the statistics show that 80% of jobs come through your networks. That's why you've got to build your network. Really? Wow. Yeah. So it's important to make friends with people and stay friends with people. You know, I've had people that have left jobs and they're not too happy about it, but they stay professional.

And sometimes they get called back for missing or getting referrals and stuff. You may not be a friend, but you may have a warm connection with them. And it's to do with how do you build a warm connection? That's a really important question. And it's not by being clinical and just saying, I need a job, you've got any ideas. It's more about finding out about them to begin with

and what connection have you got with them. So it's, you know, if you've got kids at the same school or you both love football or, you know, whatever it is, you've got to find a warm connection. The big thing is once you've got a warm connection how can you build on it because they want to help you if they've got a warm connection they'll want to build on it for instance i say you should call the recruiting manager before you apply for a job to find out what the job's about and also to build a connection with them because then

you'll you'll you'll have a number of advantages one is you find out what they're actually looking for rather than just applying to and therefore you can um you can you can write a cover letter that sort of addresses their needs uh secondly they'll look out for you when you apply. Most jobs is like 100 or 200 applicants. So they just shuffle through them. They're looking for a key word or two. Now, the statistics are terrifying. They spend five or 10 seconds on a resume.

So how do you get their attention in a five or 10 second period? It's almost impossible. I put a lot on the resume and some knife cuts. They're like, what took place here? That could definitely cause some consternation. We'll see what happens. That explains why I work for myself, I guess. I like it when you are being sought out because this is a very difficult process for most people. It is.

It's the only process where you can be rejected because you're not good enough or you're too good. I've got people who are rejected because they threaten the manager who's doing the hiring. The manager thinks they're too good or they won't stay. I have that problem on Tinder. Most people think I'm too good and they left swipe me. They're like, oh, this guy is too, he's too Brad Pitti, he's too George Clooney. They see your picture. I'm sure they do.

They're just like, he's too hot. All the girls are going to be chasing him. I'm going to have to compete with that. And it's just too much. Yes, I will understand that. It's tough, man. It's tough. I'm just trying to find someone I love.

No, this makes sense. I love the reaching out to the recruiter beforehand because you stick out like a sore thumb at that point. It shows you're professional in your networking. It shows you're professional in your networking. It shows you're professional in engaging with people and everything else.

It shows an acumen of professionalism. You're just not some dude who's sitting up late at night slamming your resume out on monster.com to everybody. That's the problem.

No, the receiving end, they're overwhelmed. I had one situation where they shredded half the applicants because they just got too many. They didn't even bother to look at them. It was terrible, terrible. But it's partly this building a warm connection. Because, you know, even if you're in the last five, if you're in the short list for a role,

you've only got a 20% chance of getting the job. It's scary stuff when you think about it, that you could be in the last five out of 100 or 200 applicants and you've still only got a 20% chance of getting the job. So that then becomes how do you handle the interview process and that's another story all by itself there you go and you talk about you know showing up for the job so we talked about how you you know you touch base and try and build a relationship with a recruiter um i mean i suppose if you don't get the job you could maybe call the recruiter back and say hey do you know of anybody else else that might be looking that was for that role?

Or maybe do you see any other roles coming up for this company maybe that I might be a better fit for? Is that a good idea? That's an excellent idea. Yeah. You're trying to build a relationship. I was talking to one recruiter who said that of the 10 people introduced to him by friends and relatives and others who knew he was a recruiter, only three of them said thank you for the meeting. And that's unbelievable, really. But I think it's because they thought they were so important that he should thank them for the meeting. But they're idiots,

really, unfortunately, because they should be trying to build a relationship. They walked away without even saying thank you. And of the three who said thank you, none of them stayed in touch. And he said they're crazy because they should really be contacting me every six months and just telling him, just say, hello, I'm still here. You know, I've got another role now and but i'd love to stay in touch so your point is is valid we need to build relationships and so few people do it and if you do do it you stand out like sore thumb yeah it it does make all the difference in in uh networking you know i know people that hit me up and they're like

hey you know i'm looking for a job and you just never know and sometimes the timing just has to be right touching base with people you know following up with them uh you know having a tickler file i mean it's sales you're selling yourself i mean that's what people do in sales they have a tickler file they have people they touch base with follow up every couple bits and say hey anything new yeah no your point's right i i had one guy who's a fantastic man and he used to write every six months he wrote a just a 50 word sort of update on this is what i'm up to and uh to all the people who'd helped him because he'd met he met a hundred people and he uh and he wanted to keep them keep them as warm connections would you believe that he sent this message to one guy

who happened to have dinner that night with the chairman of a business who said i'm looking for someone like this do you know anyone like this and he said well it's funny i just got a text from a guy who's just perfect for you uh so it wouldn't have happened if he hadn't stayed in touch. Yeah, sometimes it's all about that timing, just being at the right place. Now he's number two in the corporation. It's one of the biggest corporations in Australia. And you've got to tickle people too and remind them

and follow up with them because, you know, like you said, they can suddenly be in the right place for something or, you know, the right time. But also you've got to have the remember, because if you, you know, I know people that have hit me up and they say, Hey, I'm looking for a job. You know, I'm like, no, I don't, I'll keep that in mind. And then I never hear back from them. And so I assume that they got a job. Right. And so, you know, you want to follow up with people you want to uh shake the trees and and build a relationship this is a big problem people um you know when you i don't know the statistic i've seen is that if you're giving a ted talk they rehearse you for 50 hours uh five zero hours so

it's no wonder that people don't miss a beat when they're giving a TED talk. But people don't rehearse, so they don't practice their lines. And then secondly, they don't follow up. They're embarrassed. I've heard, you might have business statistics from me, but I've heard that the best salespeople call seven times. Now, most business people, they're embarrassed after two calls. You know, oh, you know, why don't they call me back? They assume the other person has got nothing better to do than call them back. The other person is probably totally overloaded.

And if you don't call back yourself, you are going to miss out because exactly the reason you mentioned, which is they assume you're not interested or you've already got a job. Now, why should I call you? And I'm always urging people, call back, try and send them a text. Just remind them that you're waiting for their input. There you go. So how to launch yourself in a new role and nail it. So when you first start showing up to the job, when you're, you know, you're on that

first day or first week, how do you, uh, nail it on your first, when you first get into it, how do you make sure that you, you know, start off swinging good and you don't get strikes and, you know, they're like, wow, this is a mistake. We decided this guy this week and he's already flubbing it. Yeah. they're like wow this is a mistake we just hired this guy this week and he's already flubbing it yeah well it it depends on the organization of course but i tell the story in the book about a teacher who stood at the front door of his class and he shakes hands with every student on the first day before class starts now that is building an emotional connection of some kind. Yeah. I reckon that's a lesson for all of us.

You know, we should be trying to build a bond without the people who are reporting to us. And in one case, I had a guy who was notorious for being a chief financial officer in very incident numbers, not so incident people. But we agreed that his first day, he just talked to all the people reporting to him and talked about their families, not so interested in people. But we agreed that his first day, he should just talk to all the people reporting to him and talk about their families, not about the business at all.

So to get the message through that he did actually care about people as well as numbers. And so I think that's part of it. Part of it is asking for help. You know, you can be somewhat vulnerable. You don't, you shouldn't. People are very wary of people who think they've got all the answers. You know, we've seen this character before.

We've had three bosses who came in telling us they knew all the answers and then they've all gone because they didn't know all the answers. So it's very interesting. It's good to ask people what needs to be done here how can how can we work together to make a difference I I have experienced myself in one of the business I was in we bought a radio station and it had been run by a bunch of people who didn't care about the radio station they just cared about stri by a bunch of people who didn't care about the radio station

they just cared about stripping the assets really wow so uh and someone reminded me 30 years later of the speech i made which i'd forgotten totally but it was to the basically what i said is we don't know how to run a city radio station we had country radio station and we need you to be successful we are here to help you be successful that was the main message that i gave and it turned out to be quite memorable very memorable because they had here's a guy 30 years later still heard it so i think it's all about how do you help other people be successful is one of the big things that you've got to think about. The other thing is to not to just bury yourself in numbers. You need to meet people.

You need to walk around, be seen, ask people what their problems are, how can you help them solve it, that sort of thing. And then finally, you've got to make sure you've got a good relationship with your boss. Now, the boss has hired you. So the boss wants you to be successful. That's the boss doesn't want to hire someone who is unsuccessful because that reflects on their judgment. So make sure you're close to your boss and that you ask them what needs to be done and how to do it. And then whenever there's a problem, make sure that you ask them how they would tackle it. Don't try and do everything yourself.

Very smart. Very smart. What final thoughts and ideas? What haven't we teased out on the book that we can tease out? Sorry, what was that? What final thoughts or tease- haven't we talked about that maybe we should tease out on the book i do think uh we should talk just in 30 seconds about link about linkedin because linkedin is a huge asset to people these days and it's not the people you

know it's the people who the people you know know. So it's the second connection. So if you're looking for, let's say, you're interested in joining a company like Google, you may only know one person at Google. You may know no one at Google. But the chances are that the people you know know people in Google. You might find there's literally hundreds of people in Google who your connections know. And what we want to do is get them to introduce you. We don't want cold calls. You can't make cold calls. You must be introduced.

And someone has got to say, look, you should meet William because he needs your advice. Your advice could be really helpful to him. We don't say he's looking for a job. That's the last thing we say. We just say, you'd like to know more about Google and like to know more about your industry. And then most people will help. You know, they'll find half an hour to talk to you.

As long as you're introduced by someone they respect. So LinkedIn is very important. Being introduced by someone they respect. So LinkedIn is very important. Being introduced by someone you respect. You know, I've had people reach out to me on LinkedIn, and they're like, hey, you're connected to a connection that I'm not, and I'm interested in meeting this person. Can you hook me up? Do you recommend people do that?

No, because you've never worked with them. You don't know anything about them. How can you use your reputation to introduce someone who might turn out to be like you? Yeah, it might be bad. It might be bad, yeah. So I would never do that. It's got to be people you know and ideally who you've worked with who can say, I work with Chris and he's a really good man, and he needs your advice.

We ask for advice all the time, not for a job. And most people will be, in a way, it's an honor to be asked. Yeah, if you ask for advice, people are more willing to help you. If you ask for a job, you're like, I don't know what to tell you. I don't even know how to look for a job other than your book. Yeah, so we don't ask for a job never I'm unhirable at this point

well this has been really insightful William and thank you for coming on give us your final pitch out on the book and tell people where to find you on the internet please the good news about the book is that people love it and most people are recommending it to three or four other people and I just looked at Goodreads i don't know if you're you're familiar with goodreads

yeah we're on goodreads the podcast is on goodreads too ah good on you well done yeah i was just looking at some of the feedback on goodreads but they're saying you know incredible resource unique practical thorough inspiring brilliant i'm i'm my own, I'm using other people's words, you'll notice, not my words. One said, this is a book you don't know you need until you read it. So I think that's true. Most people are pretty naive about this process. So once you start to understand it, you really get it, you really become pretty interested in how to do it well. So that's the feedback I've got. And the good news is it's very easy to read, and it's extremely practical.

There's lots of stories because I work with a thousand people. I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly, and I know what can go wrong as well as what can go right. So I try to weave those stories into the book to make it much more interesting. It's not just checklists. You've got to do this, that, that, and the other. There you go. And this is the finalist in the Australian Career Book Award 2022, hosted by the Royal Society of Arts, Oceania.

Did we get your.com, William, on where people are? Yeah, it's just building a winningcareer.com. But the best place to go is Amazon. What's incredible about Amazon is they deliver the book in two days. Isn't it, though? It's crazy. Absolutely. It doesn't matter where you are in the world, really.

It's quite staggering. Yeah. I was in Antarctica at the North Pole, and they were there in like two days. That might be it. That makes sense. Might be. But I've had people in Dubai buy it, and Malaysia, India, and Chicago. This little penguin showed up in an Amazon outfit, and he had like a little Amazon truck,

and he threw it out to me, and I was like, okay. And then some porch. It might be a bit too cold to read it. I'd get the e-book if I was you. There you go. Well, thank you very much, William, for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. You've been very insightful and people should pick up your book.

Thanks, Chris. Very enjoyable speaking with you. I'm a big believer in this, as you can see. I believe there is a process, and if you use the process, you will be better off. And you've got the experience and stories to back it up. Folks, order up the book, wherever fine books are sold. It's called Building a Winning Career, A Complete Guide to Securing and Thriving in Your Ideal Senior Role.

It came out November 16, 2021. Thanks to William for coming on the show thanks to be honest for being here we certainly couldn't do without you guys help support the show just it's real easy it doesn't cost you anything tell a friend tell a neighbor turn to the person to you right now and said download the chris voss show app or else don't do that don't say or else but But just say, hey, I want you to be smarter because you're already smart and you can be smarter. So, subscribe to this podcast really quick. It'll make you even more smarter and maybe you'll

reach my level someday. Go to goodreads.com for just Chris Voss. LinkedIn.com for just Chris Voss. YouTube.com for just Chris Voss and Chris Voss 1 on the tickety-tockety. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. stay safe and we'll see you guys next time