The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Carrasco ’67: A harrowing tale of an Imperialist Pig by Elaine Broun

Episode Date: May 30, 2023

Carrasco '67: A harrowing tale of an Imperialist Pig by Elaine Broun https://amzn.to/43jmkJC 1967 Carrasco, Montevideo, Uruguay. Terrorism has no boundaries. Anyone can be a target. Elaine Broun��s Carrasco 67’ tells the harrowing tale of one man’s journey to save his family — and himself. Peter Gray was the golden child of the accounting world. Tall, blonde, blue eyed, and charismatic, he captivated all who crossed his path. After accepting a Managing Partner role with Pradman Industries, Peter quickly and passionately set out to both elevate the firm and conquer the social scene of the elite within the suburb of Carrasco, Uruguay. The subject of terrorism, no thanks to the Tupamaros, was common fodder for the dinner table — Peter’s included. Dangerous encounters intermingled with daily living and the reign of terror began. If your family was in imminent danger — and you had no idea where they were — what would you do? Would you fall apart? Give up? Or do everything in your power to keep them safe? The answer determines which side of the line you’re on between men and boys. Evil has eyes everywhere. Is someone watching you?

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1,400 podcasts. What more do I need to do to entertain you people? She's the author of the latest book that came out August 2nd, 2021. Elaine Brown is on the show with us today. Her new book, I'm going to try and say this with a Spanish accent, Carrasco 67, A Heroine Tale of an Imperialistic Pig. It might be a biography of me. Did I say that right, Elaine? Did I get the Spanish lingo there? You're very close.

Very close. Give me a correction so I have it right. It's Carrasco 67. Carrasco 67. There we go. Elaine is with us on the show. As you can tell, she's there in the background. She's going to be joining us. And evidently people are already messaging me.

They're exciting to hear from her. Elaine is a wife, mother of four, and grandmother. She has lived in many different countries, speaks several languages, loves to travel, read, collect antiquities, and presently lives in Texas. She's always been fascinated by people and how their life journey influenced them as a person that's why we do the show because i love that too i'm always like asking people like what made you and what was the journey she went on and what did you learn and thereby our audience is smarter from their lives uh she traveled as a

child all over the world she saw sites such as the ruins of Machu Pico in Peru. The Mayans in Mexico. I mispronounced that, didn't I? That's why you're laughing. Machu Picchu. I flunk kindergarten. I flunk keeping a straight face on that one, too. I flunk kindergarten.

And my teacher didn't like me. I mean, what teacher does like me? Anyway, she's been through the catacombs of a 14th century church in Brazil. Her love of history was introduced to her by her father and she shares it together with him to this day. Welcome to the show, Elaine. How are you?

Hi, good. Thank you. There you go. I'm excited to have you on the show and already people are tuning in, just giving some love. So that's awesome. We love it. So give us your dot com so people can find you on the interwebs, please. the book on amazon and uh it should be online now on barnes and noble but don't hold me to that there's been some issues on that one but we're trying to get it all resolved so yeah it's always a fight to deal with some of the off brands uh they're like we want your cover different than the other covers and you're like why can't we

get all on the same page on this one? It's kind of like those plugs for electricity. You know, you go over to Europe and you're like, can't you just all agree on something? But, you know, I mean, the French and their cheese, what are you going to do? So tell us a little bit about your origin story. What motivated you to want to write this book? And I believe this is your first book as well, isn't it? Yes, it is my first novel. And then, um, which is based on a true story and, um,

I'm currently working on my second one. That'll be out in, uh, fall of 24 is what it's slated to be. Basically, the story was knowing the family and back when. So it was something that we knew about, it was touched on, but it wasn't allowed to be talked about, so to speak. It was something that I always wanted to tell the story. And so it took years. Let's put it that way. It took years to get Peter Gray to even talk about it. And then it would be little snippets. So I would run home and I'd jot down, I tried desperately to remember everything he said. And then, you know, another time,

if I'd be visiting something, I would try and put them up down the road to get a little more information. I'd run home and write it. And I just kept doing that. And finally, after about five years of this, I, you know, I had quite a notebook established and, and I just point blank said, what do I have to do to be able to tell this story? What, what I said, I promised you everything I won't, you know, and, uh, and, uh, you know, I kind of got shut down again and then I brought it up again. And cause I was a little stubborn here and, um, I knew it was a great story. Yeah. So, so set this up for us. This book is historical fiction. Is that what we call it um i i guess you could say that but 90 of the book is exactly what happened okay there you go you know it is it there

obviously i wasn't in the room with the terrorists yeah so I mean, but most historians aren't in the room. Right. So, you know, once I got Peter on board to allow me to write the story, you're talking about massive amounts of sit down, interview, phone calls. And I would let him know, hey, I don't care what time of the night. And trust me, I got a few of those phone calls at 1130 night. Hey, I remembered something. And I'm like, okay, I would keep a notebook by my bed and I would sit there and jot down. And in fact, there were a couple of things that came up

when I was ready to go to press and I was like, oh God. You know, and so, well, not quite press, but you know what I mean? We were ready to go to press and I was like, Oh God, you know? And so, well, not quite press, but you know what I mean? We were ready to go. And so I, I knew it was important to put in the storyline. So I had to rework it back in, got that information in, um, you know, you're trying to keep the timeline all as it happened. And so it just worked out. But he the the thing was, I ended up having to write the book under a pen name. I'm OK with that. I'll do that. that but that was a headache getting every different faction on board because they want your name not your pin name you know when you're trying to set up accounts and oh that's right yeah

yeah so it was it it was a challenge and uh so um there you. So let me ask you this. Let's flesh this out some more. How old are you when you first come across the story? Where are you at? What is the setting to this so we can kind of get a contextual feel for it? The story came back in the sixties. So, um, the, uh, I was very close to, uh, the children in the, in of the family.

So that's kind of where that came about. So, um, and what was your next question on that one? I'm just trying to get a painted picture of like, how old were you? Where was this at? What, what country are you in? What? We're in Uruguay. Okay. All right. So, um, we, uh, got to know the family and, um, very well. And, um, it ended up being one of those things where it's absolutely mind blowing on as you know, you're dealing with your own turmoil with what's going on in the country at the time. So and then not to mention what's going on with the family. And so over the years, you know, you know, we wanted this story to be told. You know, as I got older and really sunk in and was be able to really absorb everything and you see the stories that are out there, the stories that you read.

You know, I've always been an avid reader. And so, you know, that was, it just kept resonating back that this is something that needs to be told. And then not to mention the, you know, Paula Gray, which was his wife, she used to tell me one thing repeatedly all over and over. And that was, no one will ever know who I am, but I want them to know my story. I want them to know what we went through. There you go. So give us a 30,000 foot overview of of the book, and let's start with that. Okay.

So basically, Peter Gray had come from Brazil and moved to Uruguay to take over being a partner and leader of one of the biggest branches in Uruguay. And he worked for a company that was internationally one of the top two accounting firms in the world. He was basically their golden child, so to speak. He was one of the youngest men in their profession that had ever risen to the level that he had and the power that he had at that point. And so he was very respected. And he and his wife were just, I hate using this term, but they truly were the power couple of their little world, so to speak. They were very well received. They were very well known.

They were absolutely a handsome couple. I mean, that is not understated at all. So they just had a natural way that people just liked them. He was very unique for his role. He was extremely respectful to employees, to women, which is unheard of. A lot of men are just, you know, back in those days where it was very much the macho mentality. And so for him to come over and show respect, boy, he had people all over that company just loving him. So back to the point, he set off to get different clients, important clients. And he was working with another company and had invited one of the CEOs over and he came to his office and he noticed a guy that was working for Peter. And so he just waited, you know, he, Peter didn't think much of it. And he went back to his office and gave him a call and said, I want you to come to my office tomorrow.

And I need to talk to you. So he ended up going there the next day thinking they were going to be discussing business and all that. And then that's when it opened up. He goes, how well do you know that man that, that I pointed out to you? And he goes, well, you know,

he's, um, had great references. He's been working with us for a while. And, uh, and he, he,

that's when he threw the, you know, that bombshell on him and said, he's a Tupamar. Oh, what is that? That is the, uh, the uh urban gorilla oh wow yeah they were in that they were he was full-blown terrorist they courted them starting in college

most of these guys and even women too and because they wanted intellectual people that could move in to different companies, all factions from the police department, doctors, lawyers, you name it. They wanted somebody in all factions that had that leftist mentality. And so they would court them. They would infiltrate. They would make money for the cause. They would make their own salary,

but then they would also find out all the back ends and snoop, and then they would start embezzling people. Restoring and stuff like that. Right. So he went back and talked to his company lawyers and they advised him. Now I did it a little different in the book, but they advised him to observe him for a while. And so that's when he, at that time, Peter knew something was up, but he couldn't put his finger on it, but he was getting close. And then that was, that was the defining moment was realizing through this conversation with the other gentleman

that this was what was happening. So he started pulling all the accounts and doing his research and he saw that this was going on. And so he, he fired him. Wow. And then the nightmare started.

Ah, sounds like that scene in casino where the dude fires the, I mean, it's not the same, but, uh, he really fires the nephew of, uh, I don't know whoever runs the gaming board or whatever.

Yeah. Like, do you know my dad is, but that's a whole different level of uh you know stuff that goes on in these in these uh south american countries i mean right there's you know kidnappings murder uh extortion you know all that sort of crazy stuff you you mentioned uh one of the bylines on the uh amazon pages evil has eyes everywhere. Is someone watching you? I guess he finds that he's kind of surrounded by these people. Yes, and they were.

They were everywhere. And that's why the everyday person there was afraid, even though it was their own country, because they never knew if they were going to get caught in the crossfires of something. There was, you know, originally this started their group. The Tupamaros evolved from wanting to help the underdog. And so it did start out as a, you know, a liberal group wanting to help your everyday poor person and this sort of thing.

But as they were rising to power, for lack of better description, they ended up becoming greedier. And then as in every faction that you have that where people are a little bit off, you'll have those that have more violent tendencies. And it ended up becoming morphing into an extremely violent situation. Now, their tactics for kidnapping and things, you know, people wonder, well,

you know, why wasn't there a lot of shooting and this and that and the other? Well, they got into the hobby of bombing things. That was pretty big. I would think. Yeah. Just a little bombing. A little hobby. A shooting alley where kids

were there all the time. Those sorts of things but they uh they'd like to they wanted to remain anonymous so they didn't want to put themselves out if you're out there shooting and doing all these things you're bringing a lot of attention. What they're wanting to do is continue working undercover, so to speak, and, you know, stealing from various things and also making money off of ransoms. So if you're letting yourself, you know, be known, you're not going to be able to do these tactics, you know. Yeah. So they, they tried to go undercover, so to speak, um, all the time on, on everything. So with this family, it immediately became that mental torture. And, uh, that was one of the

things they did. They wanted to, they tried to break people down. And so a lot of things that went behind the scenes for different factions were scare tactics and they would break people down. They would get them exhausted, not allowing them to sleep at night, trying to mess with them, get them so scared that they would end up just caving and giving people what they wanted or, you know, that, or giving up on whatever stance they had, you know. There you go. Well, what do you feel was really drawn, drew you to the story and what do you feel makes it so compelling for readers?

The compelling thing is, is, you know, everybody sees those dramatic movies where it's, you know, a little bit incredulous on a lot of things, but then other points can be varied. But we're very complacent in our day-to-day lives here in the U.S. We don't see those, you know, things going on around you. And yet things like this really happened. And it happens in a lot of countries. And these stories don't get out primarily because people are afraid. and they're afraid for their family members. They don't want. So they choose to keep these stories quiet in this family. They they had one person that helped them out tremendously. And he was he's probably besides the dog. Um, the only real name in the

book that I put was Dan Mitrioni and, um, God, that guy had a incredible background. He, um, immigrated from Italy to the U S um, he had, he did everything. He was a police officer. He was in CIA. He was in the FBI, that sort of thing. That's kind of what got him overseas in the Latin American countries because of all the, you know, without getting heavy into too much boring data here. He, there was a lot, starting in Cuba, everybody kind of knows what was going on in Cuba, going on in Bolivia, all the unrest and all that sort of thing. So there was a lot of guerrilla tactics that needed to the police. And in a straightforward message was torture techniques for interrogation was actually what he did. And so it wasn't a pretty thing, but at the time it was necessary. And the Tupamaros were,

they had it down to a system where only the head person knew who the head person of the next level. And there was usually, they had cells is what they call them. And there was like seven people per cell. And there were usually two people running that group of seven. So those two didn't know who each other were, but the head guy did. So way if they were caught it it stopped there they couldn't find out who the next so the seven that were in that cell didn't know who each other were so it was very uh clever um how they were able to pull off all of this. So it was one of those things where you, when you get in a mindset of claristic people, you're dealing with a whole breed that your normal everyday person doesn't know how to deal with. And so this family just was in a middle of a crapshoot. I hate saying that, but that's probably the best way to

say it. They, you know, they weren't prepared for what was ahead of them. And so Dan Mitrioni came into the faction and spoke at some men's event for international businessmen. And so Peter Gray ended up reaching out to them and saying, hey, this is what's going on. And their relationship grew and

Dan took personal role in helping this family out. There you go. So it's quite an interesting story. I mean, I remember I had one gal who worked for me and her father had been one of the ambassadors to one of the South American countries. And the stories that she would tell me that would go on there with the leftist gangs and stuff, the leftist terrorists, leftist, uh, gorillas, um, were extraordinary. I mean,

one time, one time the secret service whisked them away from a mall and as they were driving away, things started blowing up behind them. Um, they would tell me about how the elite people or the rich or the government people run the government, the people who run the government, they have special schools that have like ultra security to them and other things. And, yes, it's crazy what goes on there. And then security-wise, yeah, I mean, things can go downhill and the stuff's all around you. So it's kind of a tight adventure.

You know, this is, what drew you to the story? What first piqued your interest in it? What made you go, I really want to talk about this? Well, what piqued was flat out the insane events that they were going through. I mean, he, you know, like back to Dan, he's the one that said, hey, you need to carry a gun on you. And so he hooked them up with a gun. And then he started showing them how to carry himself, how to look, how to look out for anything. So those sorts of things, as much, I'm a big fan of action films and all that stuff. So I love all that sort of thing. And so he was,

he had been in the Brazilian army, so he knew his way around guns, but, you know, that wasn't his everyday life. You know, he was a businessman. So Dan ended up hooking up with stuff and then he realized you need more. You need it in all corners of your house. So that way you can get to them. So over time he gave them more and then he got the police involved and then the family got what it was the Tupamaros death sentence. Wow. They let them know that before he got home, all his family would be dead. And so when that happened, in fact, if you read the opening of the of the story, it was the culminating scene of them, him reaching out to his wife, because there wasn't time to get anyone

to help or anything. He had to get his wife out of the house, get his children from the school, and he was too far away. So she was the closest one. And so that's kind of where it all went down. And then between Dan and the police, they got the police involved. And over time, it got so bad that then the Uruguayan military had to take over the protection of the family. So you've got guards in the house, surrounding the house, on your roof. Everybody ended up having, first it was just Peter that had a bodyguard, but then they ended up giving bodyguards to every family member. And it just kept escalating, you know, with all the things and the kidnapping start, the attempt started. You're dealing where he was on full blown foot chases where he's running and darting through traffic, you know, doing like you do in the movies where you, you know, one time he kind of half

rolled over the hood of a car because he was trying to get away. So it was, this story was just absolutely entrancing. And the more he opened up and told me things that i only knew a very little part of it but i knew it was interesting and it always stayed with me but speaking with peter and what i called the interviews and talking and when he opened up and told us what really he experienced and went on, it was absolutely mind blowing. being told in the end that he, once they got out of Uruguay, never to speak of it again to anyone, not even amongst each other, because at that time the Tupamatos did,

if someone got away, it was, there was an arrogancy to all of this. They, they were going to keep looking for you to get back at you. So it was such a fear that like at this point in today's time, I'm thinking all the key parties are either dead or in their 90s as Peter Gray is. So i'm thinking that the the turmoil the the fear tactics perhaps by now before the grudge would be passed down to the next generation but at this point i don't believe the

that's going to happen anymore so there you go on the cover there's an airplane right uh is there do you want to tease out any insight to that we want people to buy the book of course to be able to read it and right what really happens but any tease out you want to do to that and the the tease out was um basically it's how they escaped and they escaped in the middle of the night. They had a convoy that took them out. Yeah, I'm telling you. I mean, they had the streets lined with military watching and they had it all pre-set up before they removed them from the house um and um they actually pushed the cars out way out into the main road before they started the motors just in case someone in the neighborhood was um a squeal or squealer or whatever they truly didn't that's how um crazy the you That's how crazy.

That's how the people were so afraid during those times. Because you didn't know your most innocent neighbor could be a Tupamaro. Yeah. Even the military guys could be traitors. Yeah. Even a maid in the house could be. That's pretty much how I live my life. I have someone who drinks my coffee for me in the morning to test it and stuff.

So there you go. But it's pretty much just my 9XYs trying to kill me usually. But I mean, I probably deserve it. There's seven, eight or nine. We just changed it from the callback joke. So anything more you want to tease out on the show, Elaine, to get people to go pick up the book? Yeah. Basically it, it is a fast paced read and, and I've had many people assert to that, you know, because it's just it's fluid.

It's going. I didn't want something that was choppy. There were many storylines that I wasn't allowed to put in. But because that's how afraid Peter Gray was, even to this point, because he's thinking, you know, I don't want something to happen to my grandkids or, you know, that sort of thing. But it is interesting. There's a lot of detail. I like to write so that when people read, I've always been an avid writer. And so when I write things, I like it to where people picture themselves, that they can really picture themselves being in there. There you go. And then the one thing

I was going to mention to you before we went on air, what I was going to say because I just got permission yesterday. Oh, wow. This was my family. Wow.

All right. This is a family tale. First person. Wow. This is crazy. So this is why it took a lot of negotiating and trying to tell this tale then. Wow. I was not allowed to even bring up the subject.

Yeah. I was not allowed to bring up the subject at all. And it was in very curt answers until I was like in high school. Wow. We were not allowed. It was I mean, in fact, I I got in some severe trouble right after we arrived in the. after we escaped. And it was because I brought up the subject because it still bothered me and we hadn't talked about it. We hadn't been able to talk about it. So I brought it up wanting to know why. Why did they hate us? Why did whatever? And my dad never, ever raised his voice to me or yelled at me my entire existence.

But that was the one time he, because I wasn't letting it go because I was curious. And he snapped at me and he said, we do not speak about it. And he wanted to make sure that I didn't go to school because he had been warned by Dan that they know where we have family in Dallas. And of course we came and we stayed with family. He didn't want, you know, in case they infiltrated to anybody's surroundings, we didn't want to slip or say anything wrong. Amazing, harrowing story. Do you remember the escape? How old were you when that happened? Yeah, I was turning seven at the time.

And I've got one of these weird, Identity. Identity type memories. I remember things back to when I was one, which is really weird. And maybe that's what plays a part in me being so fascinated by people in details and things, because there was very little that I didn't remember in detail, except for what my father experienced or,

you know, what happened when I was at school, that was where I really had to delve in. I, um, and I was relentless because I knew this story was incredible. Um, and your family too.

Right. And my, my mother's sadly passed away last year, but the biggest joy for me was she was the number one person that wanted our book written and she knew I was a writer. And, and so one day out of the blue, I said, I'm going to write our story. And I said, and I'm going to hold on to it until he allows me to publish it.

So I started and that's where I started writing all the notes down. And I would, you know, bug them and I would get so i was i was working on it so it from the time i told her that until the time it was published it was 10 years oh wow so it was um more effort was and that's why this story is so tight and that's what i've been told by so many people that have read it is that they're amazed at the intensity in there, that you can feel the intensity in the story. But it was that intense. I mean, they almost kidnapped me at one point myself. myself so it um uh it you know and sadly dan was murdered um a few months after we left yeah so he was caught so there you go uh so extraordinary story you know i imagine growing up one of the reasons this was prevalent in your mind correct me if i'm wrong but

you know you're feeling the tension in your family you don't maybe understand fully what's going on you don't you know you don't you know you don't have the bigger picture and of course your child but you can feel the tension you can feel there's something going on you're just like why is everybody kind of on pins and needles or wound up and uh and that's probably why it made a real difference in you and of course probably a lot of that emotion and tension translated into the story to kind of create this historical thriller of your family. So quite extraordinary. Anything more, final thoughts you want to? Well, it's not normal for a kid to look out the window and watch them checking, the guards checking for bombs under your dad's car to start your day, those sorts of things to watch your dad packing his gun to,

you know, all those things that just totally blow away your innocence and your sense of security. And so there's a lot to be had with the story. I hope everyone enjoys it. It was a labor of love. And I've, you know, I'm hoping something will come of it one day. I would like to see it on the screen.

My mother wanted that, you know, and i have it on one producer's desk but you know they i'm one of many so yeah it can be there for a long time you never know but uh maybe one day there you go maybe one day i would you know these movies always make for fun uh people love watching you know these sort of things, tension, thrillers, et cetera, et cetera. Elaine, it's been wonderful to have you on the show. Give us your.com so people can find you on the interwebs, please. It's Elaine brown.com. And so that's my pen name. And so this book will be interlaced with that for a long time.

But Elaine, you know, is my middle name. And Brown was a misspell on my maiden name. So that was kind of where that came. I wanted it to be still a part of me. So that was where that came from. So but my dad is in the 90s. He's doing great. He's still active.

Sadly, you know, he's sad because he lost the love of his life. But he's very proud of this book. He's still very leery about me going live saying who I am. But hopefully no hard feelings. No hard feelings. There you go. Well, thank you very much, Lane, for coming on the show. I really appreciate it. Thanks to our audience for tuning in.

Be sure to order up her book. Give me the title one more time. It's Karasku 67, A Harrowing Tale of an Imperialist Pig. And you'll find out what the meaning behind the imperialist pig is when you read the book. It'll make sense. There you go. So order up, folks, wherever

fine books are sold. Go to goodreads.com, 4chesschrisfoss, youtube.com, 4chesschrisfoss, linkedin.com, chest christmas subscribe the big newsletter over there the 103 000 group over there uh see us on tiktok we're trying to be cool over there uh it's slowly working we're cutting up bits of the show and sending it over there uh slowly so uh i don't know enjoy whatever the hell goes on over there i think we're giving away a copy of my book over there so you might want to check that as well uh an autograph copy anyway. Anyway, thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you guys next

time. And that should have us out.