The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Claims-Made Insurance – the Policy That Changed the Industry: A Deep Dive, Review, and History by Frederick J Fisher

Episode Date: March 24, 2026

Claims-Made Insurance – the Policy That Changed the Industry: A Deep Dive, Review, and History by Frederick J Fisher https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D6Y98SHY Fishercg.com Frederick J. Fisher’s “Claims-Made Insurance – The Policy That Changed The Industry” is an indispensable guide for insurance professionals navigating claims-made policies. This comprehensive book explores the evolution and critical aspects of these policies that have transformed the insurance landscape. This book serves as a manual for industry professionals, brokers, underwriters, and claims adjusters, teaching them how to navigate and explain claims-made policies. It also empowers policyholders by clarifying their rights and responsibilities, helping them avoid coverage gaps and denial scenarios. Fisher’s engaging writing style and authoritative knowledge make this book informative and accessible. It provides practical advice and best practices, fostering transparency and trust between insurers and insureds. As the industry faces challenges from private equity and market dynamics, this primer is a vital resource for anyone involved in professional liability insurance. Whether you are a veteran or newcomer, “Claims-Made Insurance – The Policy That Changed The Industry” is your essential guide to mastering claims-made policies and ensuring robust coverage in a changing landscape. “Frederick Fisher delivers an authoritative yet accessible guide to one of the most important types of insurance coverage. With clear explanations and practical tips, this book empowers readers to make informed decisions about liability insurance and avoid costly mistakes. A must-have for anyone seeking to understand and navigate the complexities of claims-made policies!” ~ Kevin Quinley CPCU, Principal of Quinley Risk Associates LLC

You wanted the best... You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times.

Because you're about to go on a monster education role. rollercoaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks, Voss here from thecris Foss Show.com. They're going to see. And one of the nice things that makes official. Welcome to 16 years, 2,800 episodes of the Chris Vos show, because we just want to make the world a better place.

We want to have educated people, smart people, people, people that know their stuff. And so that's why we have amazing, brilliant minds on the show and some idiot with a mic. I refer to the show to your family, friends, and relatives. Go to Goodreys.com. Fustle, LinkedIn.com, Fortresschess, Chris Foss. And let's see, Facebook.com, YouTube.com, Fortes Scribesa. All those crazy places in it. Today, an amazing new man returning to the show.

His book is entitled Claims Made Insurance, the Policy that Change the Industry, a Deep Dive, Review and History out June 18th, 2024 by Frederick J. Fisher. We're going to end with him, find out of the deeds. What's going on in the insurance departments, areas? Too much for your one hour, one hour's show. Yeah, it's only, yeah, it's a. I'm still trying to figure out why you're having me back. I mean, did you do something to tick off your partner?

And he says, all right, have that guy fish around again. I know how to fun is weird. No, we really enjoyed our show with you. So you've had more than 50 years of investigating claims, consulting on complex disputes, and serving as an expert witness and training in the next generation of claims professionals. You speak uncomfortable truths without apology about. the industry being hijacked, insurers the value rather than investigate claims,

policy owners are forced to prove their own losses. Companies are financed and financially incentivized to delay payments, and people don't feel protected. So let's get into it, Fred. Give us any dot-coms. Where do you want people to find you on the interwebs? My website is Fisher, F-I-S-H-E-R, and that's Fisher-C-G, C-G, C-S-N-C-G, C-S-N-N-G-C-C-C-C-com. FisherC-C-C-G.com is my website.

And if anybody is having trouble sleeping, you know, there's a bunch of articles you can download if you want or maybe punish yours. And then, of course, the book is there as well where you can click on and they'll take your right to Amazon. And again, you can buy it and punish your children some more. But, you know, make them learn about the world of insurance. But the bottom line is, as much as we love to hate insurance companies or maybe hate to hate to hate insurance companies in the case, maybe, nothing's going to happen without.

insurance in this world. There's nobody, very, very few people or even companies can afford not the costs of a major event and without insurance. It just can't happen. Yeah. As a result, and further, you know, when you think about it, things like, you know, doing, doing medical testing, you know, and all that stuff that goes on, that's not going to happen without liability insurance. You have to have it. Yeah. You know, major buildings being constructed, you know, without insurance, not going to happen, You know, and so that's the real world. And as much as we've always loved to hate insurance companies, they're always looking for a way to avoid paying claims.

You know what? It's more true now than ever, and certainly intentional, very intentional. I don't know. I've lost count of the number of articles I have from prominent lawyers, some of whom I know, that have written articles on, HIRS will help you write language so that you don't have to pay claims.

Oh, wow. And so in today's world, you know, in the old days, You grew up with an industry where when there was a lawsuit investigated, they'd send their own boots on the ground investigators or independent adjusters out and assess it. And be trying to reach a fair sell of it and get the file closed as fast as possible. The faster you sell, they'll claim, the cheaper it's going to be. And hopefully, when you close a policy year, they can say, okay, we took in $10 million in premium and we paid out $9 million in claims. So we're doing pretty well.

We've added a million dollars in profit, and some of it goes into operations. some they go to stock dividends to stockholders. The most important thing they do is create after-tax money, these after-tax dollars, to go into what's called capital surplus. Capital surplus, by definition, is an industry term. And it's that amount of money that's used exclusively, exclusively, to support underwriting and pay claims. There's often this thing called a premium-to-surplus ratio,

and that is if you have 10 million in capital surplus, how many million dollar policies are we allowed to sell? Yeah. But because of, and then the actual is take a look at how many claims, you know,

they're out there and how much we pay and whatever. And so the bottom line is if you're going to take in a million dollars in premium, how much capacity do you have before, you know, you may not be writing too much. And so if you're an insurance company that's writing general liability for slip and falls kind of thing,

writing offices in an office building, you know, where there are as accountants and lawyers and consultants, whatever, how often do people get hurt in their office or a customer? So that's called a soft risk. And something like that, they may allow a company to say, okay, you got a million dollars in capital surplus to write general liability for these kind of risks, we're going to let you write $4 million in premium. So that's $4 to $1, premium is a surplus or premium. And that's considered healthy. But on the other hand, if you're writing environmental liability for oil spills, they may,

Department of Insurance may say, you're not, it's not safe for you to write less, more than one to one. You've got $10 million in capital surplus. You can write $10 million in premium. Wow. That's wild. Some of these regulations to stipulate that. Yeah, they do.

And it's done to maintain the viability and profitability of the insurance company so they can pay claims. So that probably came out of the too big to fail sort of things. At the end of the day, that's what it's about. Not wasn't that long ago, I went to a cocktail reception for the new American CEO of a major insurance company. That's where I remain nameless. and for half an hour, this guy was talking about how the board of directors is allocating millions of dollars in capital surplus to all these various underwriting divisions. And all they expect is a reasonable rate of return on the money they're investing in the director and officer liability department or the general liability department or the homeowner department. We're giving you this capital.

We expect a reasonable rate of return on our money, i.e., we expect you to be able to write business and stay. and leave a decent rate of return profit at the end of the day. Wow. And in this meeting, and I kept thinking to myself, was this guy an accountant or an insurance guy? And the termed how he was. He was a CPA. Oh, wow.

And so he, and it was like he hasn't got a clue what an insurance company is supposed to be doing. Oh, wow. All the board cares about is, we're giving you $100 million, and we hope you, you know, at the end of the day, we got, you know, $5 million left after everything that's paid or whatever. That would not be a reasonable rate of return. They're probably looking for 20. You know, we want 20 million to profit on top of it.

So, are you kidding? Yeah. I'm meeting with a policy holder day after tomorrow, and I'm going over his renewal for director and officer liability coverage and employment practice coverage and stuff to cover them for, it's called fiduciary liability for employee benefit programs. And on top of it, they got an E&O exposure to. And they're spending $380,000 on their premium.

Do you think they want to hear that that premium is going to go towards giving the insurance company a reasonable rate of return on the capital they're allocating to write that piece of business? Or do you think they want to hear, I'm going to be here for you when you have a claim that we're insuring? Wow. Now, a word was said about that. And that really is sad. But to me, it's a trend. Insurance companies today have lost their mission. At least, and I don't want to paint a broad brush, but a lot of the major insurance.

insurance companies have lost their mission. And now with the monopolization going on, because more and more good insurance companies are being bought up by the, you know, big conglomerate corporate stuff. And my worry is that the quality of coverage, the quality of service, the quality of everything is going to go down. I think we've seen that. Weren't you the gentleman I had on the show or person on the show, I can't remember who it was, but I've cited a few times that basically people, the insurance companies are building back doors into the language of their policies to where they can basically deny claims on just about anything for any reason. There certainly is that going on, and it's blatant.

I know some prominent law firms, and who have authored articles on exactly that. Hire us, we will help you write policies so as to avoid more costs and avoid paying certain claims. Wow. And it's intentional. And one of the things that also you're seeing are the courts are helping them. Wow. There's been a shift in what the focus is.

And now the shift is a conservative view that we're going to fanatically enforce contracts, the sanctity of the written contract. And if it's clear and unambiguous language, we're going to enforce it. That's what the courts have said. We're enforcing clear and unambiguous language. Number one, clear and unambiguous to who? To who? The consumer or somebody who's trained?

See, that's number one. So that's a fantasy right there. Number two, that's not the purpose of insurance. The purpose of insurance is not to enforce a contract that's clear and unambiguous. The purpose of insurance has always been or should, up until recently, has been to put the policyholder back in the position they were in before. the loss. Yeah. And it doesn't matter whether it's a first-party claim for property damage and fire losses or whatever, or a liability claim where somebody is injured, and you've got to pay money for that. They want to put everybody back in the position before the loss. And that is falling by

the wayside to just being a cash machine. We're bringing in this money and we want to do whatever we can to keep as much as we can. Wow. And the National Association of Insurance Commission, the NEC, they certainly are doing their best to deal with certain things about like artificial intelligence and privacy and that sort of thing. When it comes to policy language,

you're turning a blind eye to it. And they're allowing this other stuff to happen. And they know what's going on because I've told them. I have written. You know, I think on prior shows I brought out, you know, problems with the claims made policy

and how complicated that's gotten. And if anybody out there, if you're providing a service, to somebody else for which you charge them a fee, that's a consulting fee. That's excluded under your general liability policy. They don't cover professional services. Oh, really? Yeah.

You have to buy an error and omission policy or professional liability policy. That's been my specialty for 50 years. It's also written on a claims made basis. Unlike your auto policy, unlike your homeowner policy, unlike most commercial general reliability policies that protect you from slip and falls and that sort of thing. Those are all written on what's called in the current spaces. And that means that the accident must take place during the policy term. Like having me on your show today might be considered an accident.

But as long as it takes place in the policy term, you may be covered. But here's the other side of it, though. For professionals, do anyone who's providing a service for a fee, insulting fee or a lawyer or accountant or architect insurance broker real estate broker lawyer doctor the x-ray technician you know at a clinic you go to the x-rayed or what have you those are all providing a service for a fee and sometimes are often when a professional commits an error nobody knows about it you're not immediately injured unlike running a red light and hitting a car or turning a making an legal right hand turn and hitting somebody in the pedestrian walk they're injured

immediately you know you're injured them immediately yeah you may not know how badly yeah but that's i used to get out of the car and be like why are you covered in blood no i'm just kidding yeah yeah i didn't do it's a friday's the horse did it yeah horse did that did you have a horse there but anyways that's the reason for it so when you're an architect and you make a computational error involving the load factor on a on a pedestrian bridge, nobody's going to know that you committed an error. So that pedestrian bridge falls or fails. Yeah, yeah.

And it may never fail, you know. But the point is, how do you underwrite something like that? How can you project future claims when they may take years to even develop or take place? So that was a reason for the claims made policy. Because now what triggers the policy is not when you committed the error. When somebody was injured by it and then they decided to do something about it. hire a lawyer to sue you or send you a nasty letter or pick up the phone and call you and tell you I'm taking you to the EEOC or EEOC because you've discriminated against me.

Okay. But that's what triggers your policies when somebody over whom you have no control decides to say, you harmed me and I'm doing something about it. And so from an actuarial perspective, that's hard to project. So that was the reason why they came up with the claims made policy form. And it makes perfect sense. But it's dangerous. When I first got in the business 50 years ago, it was only really one condition.

And that is a claim he first made against you during the policy term and that you didn't know about your error when you signed the application. That was it. Yeah. Now there's five. Wow. Up to five. And there are dangerous policies. And there's reporting requirements.

if you don't report the claim as instructed in the policy, you may not be covered. You have to report the claim during the policy term. Otherwise, you may not be covered. And I'll tell you, some of the smartest brains in the country have blown it. In just the last year, I think, or two, major companies like and universities, USC, have it. Cedars-Sinai Hospital, Wayfair, and the Blake. lively lawsuit. They all knew something was going on. They all received complaints about something. They all started doing an internal investigation. They said they never told their insurance

company about it. Oh, wow. And so when the application comes up for renewal and there's a question says, are you aware of anything that could be going on that could later turn into a claim? And you answer no. You've lied. Wow. Because there is something going on. You've got an investigating team looking into these allegation. You know, eternally. And you don't think that's going to turn into a client potential claim? Of course it is. And that's why these entities that I just discussed had their, when it finally blew up and they got

served in a major lawsuit, they turned it into their insurance company. And the insurance company said, sorry, we're not covering this. Because you knew about it for the last two years, longer. And then that's why. Wow. Now, is that, is the Blake lively insurance? thing, I'm not sure I remember this correctly, but is that what you cite in your

book, the claims made insurance, the policy that changed the industry, or what was... Blake Lively apparently claims that she was harassed by her co-starred in a movie, and I guess it was own... And the parent company was Wayfarer.

And they spent at least a year or more. I forget the exact timeline on it, but they apparently had known about the problem internally. And we're trying to keep a lid on it, so to speak. But they never reported the potential problem to their insurance company, which they should have done. Had they done that, they probably would have had coverage, but now they're on their own.

They don't. And the same is true. The other entities, the USC spent at least two and a half years investigating the claims for, you know, women in, I guess they're gymnastics, I think it was. But there may be another as well, but they were reporting problems with a particular doctor for quite a while. And they kept the lid on it. Oh, really? And of course, when it went public and the lawsuit started, they were without coverage because they didn't disclose it and they didn't report it when they should have. Oh, wow.

Because the claims made policy does have a safety net of it. Nobody's made a claim against you, but you know you did something wrong. Like an attorney. What do you do when you've blown the statute of limitations, you know that your case just got thrown out? And then you spent two and a half years trying to fix the problem. And yet you continue to answer applications for renewal saying we're not aware of a problem that could give rise to a claim. Of course you do. As soon as you're trying to fix a problem, you've got a problem to report.

And so you can avail yourself of what's called the safety net of a cleanse made form. You can report a potential claim and that triggers the policy. That is crazy. And it is crazy that people, for whatever reason, they think, oh, if I report my claim, my rate's going to go up. Number one, that's not true. And even if it does go up 10%, you're paying $3,000 a year or $4,000 a year, so it's going to go up $400.

Okay, that's a heck of a lot less money than the hundreds of thousands you're going to have to pay because you're uninsured. So you have that going on. And so these kind of problems fall in the category of number one, read your policy. Number two, never, never, ever, never, buy on price. We're being brainwashed and thinking,

gee, we can save $400, $500 moving into another insurance company. But let me surprise folks. No two policies are identical. One auto policy from what you made your carrier is different than another automobile policy from another carrier because the Department of Insurance doesn't mandate what's required. They set minimum standards.

Here's what you must do. After that, you can do whatever you want as long as you get approval. So the policies are not the same. If you're saving $800 a year moving your insurance from one carrier to another, what have you given up? Yeah, that's a good question. The same with your homeowners. The same with your property insurance, your rental coverage, and big corporations, same thing.

Everybody wants to save a lid on the cost of insurance. You know what? When you have a claim and you find yourself you're underinsured or you didn't cover this particular hazard, but you didn't cover that particular hazard, now tell me how much you've saved. you can't do it. And I don't know, have we discussed the order taker stand to care of the care of the insurance agents in the family? I don't remember if we did that before, but go ahead and recap on that. There's one thing you can't do.

37 states in California is one of them. We actually, arguably, we started it in 1987. But your insurance agent, your insurance broker or producer, as it may be called in certain states, guess what, folks, in 37 states, they have no duty to advise you. No fiduciary duty. That's right. No duty. I remember I talked about this, yeah.

That's right. And it's easier to probably tell you the states that don't follow this. It's Arizona, Connecticut, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Michigan, Montana, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Virginia, Washington, D.C., and West Virginia. Now, what's interesting about this, New Jersey passed a statute in 2019 holding insurance producers to the highest standard of the care. It's called a fiduciary standard. Much like your lawyer had the fiduciary standard. Yeah, yeah. And Florida has done it by case law.

So it's interesting. California is most of this ultra-liberal state. We're more conservative than Florida, which is, you know, a true conservative state, and they're more liberal than California. Go figure that. There's other problems in Florida about the insurance industry, but that's not where we're here today. Oh, yeah, the condo stuff and hurricane homeowners. So it's like going to, it's like going to your favorite restaurant,

and you already comes over and, you know, that tells you what the special. are for reasons that they have to get rid of this stuff. How old how cynical you are, for you want to, you want to order to finish it. Call it right to fuck out. But they don't have a duty to, they have no duty to you, but I don't answer your questions, okay? So, you know, you want an insurance agent that has no duty to advise you? Do you want to make sure that you know what you need to know? Now, I don't want to paint a Brad, a broad brush here.

There's a lot of negative at all there, Fred. There are a lot of good agents. There are a lot of good brokers who do care. You know, you've got to find them. That's number one. Number two, shop your coverage. Yeah. And shop your coverage.

Not for price for coverage. Shop for coverage. Yeah. You know, and I'll give you a good example of it in a second. But the point is, if you go to a captive agent and don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong of a captive agent model. I mean, State Farm used to be a great company. They have issues right now.

farmers can a lot of farmer's agents do great work but they're captive pretty much farmers agent can go to other insurance companies if number one he's properly licensed but he has to give

farmers first right of refusal so a farmer says we don't we don't want this is out of our guidelines or whatever then he's free if he's properly licensed to go anywhere else okay and I know a lot of good farmers agents state farm agents are 100%

captive. So that means they're only going to get your one coat. That's what State Farm, and they can't go anywhere else. You know, I'd never do business of State Farm because of that one lawsuit they had that was really famous where there was a couple, I think their house burned down or something happened in their house, I think, or something. I don't remember what it was. There was like an older couple and they were denying their claim and they just waited until the people died. And I think they dragged it on for 10 or 20 years. There are instances of that. I even handled one resulting from the Willsy Fire. Yeah, I believe State Farm was also pulling out of that around that time.

They were trying to get out of that area. Yeah, they really, a case, all I could say, the case got settled, thank you. And I was very happy that I was one of the experts on that case and helped that along. But there's good and bad everywhere. I mean, one bad after, and for insurance company doesn't mean the whole carrier's bad or bad, but some carriers are notorious for it. I don't trust them for that. I control them. So there's where I'm at.

But, you know, part of the problem, too, and I've got an article in draft right now, is the fact that a lot of insurance company personnel are run by accountants, and they see the claim department as a cost center. And that's absolutely wrong. The claim department cannot a cost center. It's the profit center of the company, believe it or not. Everything about insurance is backwards from any other business. And unfortunately, the accountants haven't figured that out yet. It's amazing. You walk into a grocery store and you walk into a grocery store and you, walk out having purchased a hundred dollars worth of groceries, okay, the profit that the grocery store has made is immediate. And they can do whatever they want with that profit. You know, they can allocate some of it to, you know, giving somebody a bonus, allocate more money to having the capital to buy more goods to replace what you just bought. Part of it may go into advertising and the rest of it goes into profit, you know, before tax profit and then they'll do whatever they want with it.

That is not true of insurance companies. get a $10,000 premium check from you, that's not profit. It's unearned, it's unearned premium. That's the technical phrase. Oh. And, you know, you can cancel your policy anytime you want usually and get and you get prorated premium back. So that 10,000 isn't fully earned until the policy years over. Oh, wow. They see this cash flow coming in and now is how do we keep that money? See? And, Part of that money is supposed to go into capital surplus. Part of that money is supposed to help support claims and claim payments.

But they're seeing the claim department at the cost center. So they want to keep the overhead down, cut the staff, cut the refer, cut, you know, tie the hands of defense counsel with really ultra-rigid attorney management guidelines. We don't want to spend a lot of money on litigation. And then they want to delay everything as long as possible because we'll get cheaper settlements, which of course is wrong. It doesn't always happen. Most of the time it doesn't happen. And so what are you gaining here? And you're also violating, you may be violating the code.

You're supposed to have your coverage determined in 45 days. You're supposed to pay claims as soon as you realize there's liability and exposure. You're supposed to make fair and reasonable settlements. They're always finding a reason not to. And so the business model is now changing where we want to keep the money coming in as much as possible. The claim department is a cost center. So how do we do this legally? You get insurance coverage attorneys to help write policy language,

to limit the amount of claim, to limit the type of things you're really covering, even though you used to cover all these different things. Now you're going to start limiting it. And they're using what are called absolute exclusions to do it. I don't know if there's time to go into that. But I have articles on the website about it. If anybody's having trouble sleeping, you can download the article. But these are articles that are there.

Even an article about, you know, one river two currents, I think it's called, talks about the demise of the order take or how the order taker or how the order taker standard of care has changed how what you can expect from your insurance agent. And frankly, the order to take her standard of care doesn't even work. I mean, the point is, you can't be legally liable if you don't have any duty to advise. Okay, so you're still going to get sued and 80% of all cases settle. So what is being accomplished here except helping defense lawyers build bigger homes? If you gave the advice, chances are you're not going to be sued.

And even if you are, it isn't going to last long if you document. So for all of you professionals out there, whether you're an insurance broker, real estate broker, account, whatever, architect, document, document, document. And if it's important, you're giving advice the client doesn't want to follow, put it in writing. Because the last thing you want to do is have one of these, you told me, I told you this. No, you didn't. Yes, I did. I changed my mind. You know, you're going to have that. That's not what you, that's what you don't want. I wrote an article about that. It was actually called document, document, document to prevent E&O claims, malpractice cases. I wrote that article in 1979. And I wasn't the first. I won't, never claim that. There was four of us that were really hell-bent to help people.

understand how you can avoid being sued, here's the things you can do. Eventually, lawyers decided that's a good idea. They called it best practices, but that didn't start until the mid-1990s. So I guess you could say I'm one of the four people that invented best practices. But if you act within the concept of best practices, you do the utmost, you bend over backwards for your customer or your client. Chances are, they're going to be really happy. Chances are there isn't going to be a problem. And if there is, chances are, chances are it's not going to last very long as long as you've documented what you told them to do it's amazing that lawsuits i've been now i do expert witness work now that i'm kind of semi-retired

from the industry but i still need a reason to get up in the morning and i do expert witness work and i would say the vast majority of the cases i'm handling especially against insurance brokers was avoidable why are we in all you have to do with this this and this we wouldn't be here today you know so i can argue until the cows come in yeah most people are going to follow the advice anyways. So documenting everything has been around since the 7th, 1970s, and it's still amazing to me how many

insurance brokers and lawyers and doctors, you know, everybody doesn't document the advice. Wow. You have the knowledge, use it. Yeah, documented at all. Everything documented. So as we round out, tell us about the offerings you have on your website. What

helped you offer to either businesses or consumers and that people can tell? The website is really more, it was originally designed to be, informational. You know, here I am. I do expert witness work, blah, blah, blah. But it's also got a lot of the articles that I've published over the years is up on it. And, you know, some of the articles may be of interest to people, you know, especially, again, we're in more of a service-based economy more than ever, and we have been since the 1990s. And as a result, you know, that sort of service, again, you know, requires professional liability insurance.

But it's tricky. It's, you know, there is so much you need to know. Generally speaking, professional liability is considered an economic loss in the sense that if I'm a professional and I screw up, you've suffered an economic loss. And so bodily injury and property damage is usually excluded. But that's not always true. Safety consults, they commit an error. There's going to be bodily injury and property. property damage. If an architect commits an error, there's going to be bodily injury and property damage.

Yeah. You know, and so forth. So there are ways, there are endorsements to cure that problem. But you've got to be talking to a knowledgeable insurance broker. You know, a moment ago you asked me about what's on my website. You know, I mentioned there's stuff about my book and how you can buy it. There's stuff about me, in case you're interested in that. And now that my parents and aunts and uncles are gone, maybe nobody's interested anymore. But I do have a bunch of articles. And for anybody that's a professional or anybody who has a kid that's a professional, or going to law school, or they're already a professional, this is stuff they may need to know.

Because professional liability and management liability coverages for, you know, people that are directors and officers, take this stuff seriously. And again, it's not the size of the organization. It's not the amount of premium that's being paid that matters. It's the hazards of what you're doing. To me, the fact that I'm insuring a small little, you know, business organization kind of nonprofit, you know, or the local little league, you know, so to speak. Yeah, $1,000 you get your DNO insurance or, you know, probably even if it would be a package with the CGL and whatever. It's a $1,500 policy.

But the hazards for that organization are no different than a $15 billion a year company spending millions on insurance. The hazards are the same. So what makes you think? You've got to put a lot of time into that six-figure premium account versus a $1,500 account. I got a news for you. You're more likely to get sued on a $1,500 account than a monster. a whale because the hazards are the same. Yeah.

And if you screw up on a little one, you can screw up on a big one too. And if you screw up on a big one, you can screw up on a little one. And if I told my employees, I don't care that it's a $1,500, you know, a little nonprofit D&O account, you know, a local business organization or something or the local little league. It's the hazards. They're the same as, you know, writing a major corporation. Put the time in.

otherwise we're going to be looking at, you know, a $2 or $3 million lawsuit. And this is what people don't get. And I've seen it happen. You know, if you're a small company and you go to even a regional, privately owned insurance brokerage, they probably have a small business unit there and they're going to automatically renew you every year. Meanwhile, your business models changed. You're growing.

All of a sudden, you're no longer in research and development. You're actually selling your product. Maybe your insurance agent ought to know that. but on top of it, maybe they ought to pick up the phone at renewal and ask you. Anything new going on we need to know about? Because it's so easy to do auto renewal, just automatically renew. And the same with the insurance companies. It lowers the overhead.

But the hazard hasn't changed. It may have gotten worse. Pick up the phone and ask. Yeah. You've got to avoid a lot of grief from a policyholder or a client. And policyholders take this seriously. Don't take insurance for granted. because it's not. It's there to protect you if they have a loss, and that's not when you want a surprise.

Yeah, not a surprise at all. So how can people reach out to you on your websites, consult with you? My phone number is there. My how to contact me is there. There's a contact us, you know, button you can push out. It tells you how to call me. Okay. And that sort of thing. And what my email address is, you can fill out a form as well. We do not collect or keep any data of any kind. You know, we don't take credit cards either. And so that's one way of getting a hold of me. But I'm happy to help. But the point is you've got to expect more from your insurance broker and do it in writing. If you're in a state that follows the order taker standard care, you've got to make it clear what you expect.

And saying to your agent or broker, I want the best coverage, I want to be covered for everything is meaningless. has no merit whatsoever. You're going to have to be a little more explicit and clear than that, because it's overly broad. And the courts have said that. It's meaningless. I want to be covered for everything. Number one, that's impossible.

Can't be covered for everything. Number two, you know, no two policies that are alike. Three, never ever buy on price. Four, read the policy. I admit, yes, they're complicated. They're difficult to read. They're difficult to follow. But there are some things you can spot.

Maybe the dates are wrong. Maybe the limits are wrong. Heck, maybe they even transpose the number on your address. That's pretty obvious stuff. Yeah. And, you know, if your fire limit is $400,000, okay, what's the code and ordinance coverage? People don't even, that doesn't show up on a deck page. That's in the policy itself.

Code and ordinance is designed to provide the funds necessary to rebuild according to the current building codes. That's technically an improvement. Policies aren't supposed to cover improvements. So, for instance, if you've got Formica counters and you want to upgrade to, you have a total loss, and you want to upgrade the marble, they're not going to pay for the marble,

but pay for the replacement of the formica, but they're not going to pay for marble. That's an improvement. The same is true of building code upgrades. However, the policies do cover that, but it's a sub-limit. So if you've got a half a million-dollar fire limit, you may only have $50,000 in code and ordinance coverage, 10%.

My house is as old as I am. I know how much it costs me to maintain my body, managing the house. When I realized my code and ordinance coverage on a 75-year-old house was only 10% of the fire limit, I went, oh, my God, there's no way that's enough. Yeah. And I increased it.

I called my insurance company, because I have a direct writer. And I called them and I said, hey, how much can I go when they told me? And I said, do it, do it. And the same is true of all the other little coverages. And you've got like personal property. Is it really? I used to think that 300,000 in personal property covers an awful lot. My wife said it may not be enough.

You know, look at the stuff we got here. And to buy it all new, you know. And then, of course, how about additional living expense, ALA, additional living expense? That pays for you to get a two-bedroom or three-bedroom apartment while your two- or three-bedroom home is being rebuilt or condo. Yeah, that was probably a feature for a lot of those people. Yeah. And some of those, some of that stuff is limited to one year or two years. There may be a limit on it is all wherever are going to pay.

But what you want is actual loss sustained. Yeah. That's normally, depending on the language, actual loss of sustain will pay you until it's until it's done. That could be more than a year or two, and they'll pay the rent on a two or three-bedroom, you know, apartment. I got a three-bedroom house. Now, I might bargain that because I don't need all three bedrooms,

but, you know, can I get a two-bedroom apartments or my niece? My wife has some where to go where she's going to be alone and get away from me. Yeah, they'll pay for that, you know, actually. But you want actual loss sustained. So these are the kind of things. You need to go over with your broker. need to know what I'm covered for, what I'm not covering for, and whether or not these sublimits, which I don't understand, are adequate. And just have these discussions. Put your expectations

in writing. More importantly, take the time. Sit down to your age. Sit down with you. Don't take this stuff for granted. Auto and homeowners insurance, you think that's complicated. If you're a business owner, same thing. Don't tell your insurance broker, we've got half an hour to go over seven policies that are renewing. Take the time. Take the time. Take the time. You're talking about your financial security. Yeah. Friend Dick, thank you very much for coming to show. We really appreciate it. Oh, my pleasure. Give me your dot com is one last time as we go out. It's by www. Fischer, C.S. and Charlie, G. and George.com. Fischer without a C. F-I-S-H-E-R. Body by Fisher. I'm, you know, walking Chevrolet. Aren't we all? I think I'm one of those old

and Paul is that's five miles wide. They don't have the body by fisher thing on the emblem anymore. I remember that, though. Yeah, they did a way. I used to look at that and be like, who's this Fisher guy? What's what's his deal about? No, I'm not part of that family. I'm not part of the family.

Thanks for coming to show. Folks, pick up the book, wherever fine books are sold. You either run the game in life and stay educated or the game is run on you. You know, run the game. Claims made insurance. The policy that changed the industry. A deep dive review and history out June 18th, 2024. Thanks for me.

and go to Goodreach.com, Fortresschusch, Chris Foss, LinkedIn. Chris Foss 1 on the TikTok, Edy, and all those crazy places in it. Be good, to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next. You've been listening to the most amazing, intelligent podcast ever made to improve your brain and your life. Warning, consuming too much of the Chris Walsh Show podcast can lead to people thinking you're smarter, younger, and irresistible sexy. Consume in regularly moderated amounts.

Consult a doctor for any resulting brain bleed. All right, we're out, Fred.