The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Come Up for Air: How Teams Can Leverage Systems and Tools to Stop Drowning in Work by Nick Sonnenberg

Episode Date: April 10, 2023

Come Up for Air: How Teams Can Leverage Systems and Tools to Stop Drowning in Work by Nick Sonnenberg The practical guide to go from “drowning in work” to freeing up an extra business day per week for everyone on your team. “There just aren’t enough hours in the day to get everything done!” Sound familiar? Forget the old concepts of time management and the hustle culture of working until you burn out. You and your entire team can get more done, in far fewer hours, with the right blueprint. Come Up for Air is that blueprint. Through years of building a leading efficiency consulting business, Nick Sonnenberg has discovered the primary reason why so many teams are overwhelmed. It’s not because they don’t have enough time, managers expect too much of their employees, or there aren’t enough people. The problem is that everyone is drowning in unnecessary work and inefficiencies that prevent them from focusing on the work that drives results. In Come Up for Air, you’ll discover the CPR® Business Efficiency Framework, a proven system for leaders, managers, and teams to maximize their performance and reduce overwhelm by using the right tools in the right way, at the right time. The end result? More output, less stress, happier employees, and the potential to gain an extra full day per week in productivity to use however you’d like. You’ll learn the proven empirical strategies from someone who not only turned his company around when it was on the verge of bankruptcy, but has also helped thousands of organizations around the world become more efficient and leverage the right systems and tools for explosive growth. Come Up for Air is the employee manual you never received. Turn to Come Up for Air to: Gain an extra full day per week in productivity for everyone on your team. Reduce stress and burnout by creating a more stable work environment. Eliminate the 58% of employee time per day spent on “work about work” instead of being productive. Improve company culture by empowering your team to spend their time on work that matters. Save an average of two hours per week just by optimizing email with the R.A.D. System. Stop wasting time on the “Scavenger Hunt” of trying to find where information is stored. Increase employee happiness, satisfaction, trust, and retention by making work easier. Stop wasting time in meetings with four proven techniques. Supplement your learning with free content and in-depth instructions at comeupforair.com

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. This is Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com, thechrisvossshow.com.

Welcome to the big show, my ladies and gentlemen, my friends, my neighbors, my relatives. I don't know. Who else is listening to the show? Your cockroaches at your house or something when you're not there? Welcome to the show, my friends. We certainly appreciate you guys coming by. We have an amazing author today. He published a book in 2016 called Idea to Execution, How to Optimize, Automate, and

Outsource Everything in Your Business, without the uh in the middle, of course. I ad-libbed that part. Nick Sonnenberg is on the show with us today. He's going to be talking about his latest and newest book coming out in February. We'll give you the tip of the hat on that here in a second. But in the meantime, make sure that you do the drill that you always know, the Chris Foss Show, the family that loves you but doesn't judge you, at least not as harshly as your mom does when she tells you to go clean your room.

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We're not on Snapchat. The Chris Foss Show does not send pictures on Snapchat. So sorry to disappoint half the ladies out there. Anyway, guys, he is the author of the amazing book coming out February 7th, 2023. And he's going to be checking it out, talking to us about it on the show. You're going to get like a whole update on wonderful things going on there. Nick Sonnenberg is on the show with us today. He's going to be talking about his amazing book as well.

He is Entrepreneur Incorporated's columnist and guest lecturer. He's a guest lecturer. Wow, he's also a guest lecturer and guest lecturer at Columbia University. He's the founder and CEO of Leverage, a leading operational efficiency consultancy that can help companies implement the CPR, business efficiency framework outlined in Come Up For Air. This is the accumulation of Nick's unique perspective on the value of time, efficiency, and automation, which stems in part from the eight years he spent working as a high-frequency trader on Wall Street. Welcome to the show, Nick.

How are you? I'm great. Thank you for that fantastic introduction, Chris. I don't know what I decided to do with the lecture there, man. I just thought, you know, we ad lib on the show. We have some fun with it. Sounded perfect. So congratulations on the new book uh welcome to the show give us your dot coms wherever you want people to look you up on those uh inner tubes that roll through the sky well um you know the

main one right now is come up for air.com we've built out a whole ton of complimentary resources for free that supplement the book. And the book is coming out in February, as you mentioned, and we've put, it's already a 320 page book. My publisher, HarperCollins, wouldn't let us go any longer. So we basically had to stick, but there's so much more that we could say. So we've put a whole bunch of video courses and additional resources up on that site. And then getleverage.com is my consulting company where we're helping businesses get more efficient and helping train their teams on best practices with all the different softwares modern teams need now to be efficient. There you go. So is there a lot of drowning going on at work on the cover? It's got a life preserver and an office chair. So what's going on at these workplaces?

Are they being held in the sea or what's going on? Yeah. Yeah, they're being held in the sea looking for treasure. You know, we've been doing this for a really, really long time. And the number one thing when I speak to business owners, what I hear is that they're drowning in work. And it's not even business owners. It's COOs, it's employees.

Everyone is busy. Everyone is drowning in work. So, you know, and it's not that hard to stop drowning in work and to make work easier, more fun, more intellectually stimulating, more enjoyable, and not make people have to waste time going on scavenger hunts looking for crap that is just a byproduct of being disorganized and not being operationally efficient. So the output of what my book is trying to achieve for people is to make them more efficient remove the scavenger hunt from the company allow them to free up time to work on

things that give them more joy and tap into their unique ability by aligning them on not just how to use the various technologies inside of of their team but when to use it and aligning them on the best practices of what the purpose is of email versus text versus Slack versus all these tools. And so when you align teams, and it's kind of like speaking a new language, these things, it allows them to save a lot of time, stop drowning in work, thus the title Come Up For Air.

There you go. So, you know, this seems just like antithetical to proper business. I mean, I want my employees drowning in work. I'm drowning in work. Ever since, you know, one of the challenges I've always had, and this is probably a great book for entrepreneurs as well, I assume. I reached a point early on in my business where I just had to come to the conclusion that even if I could stay awake for 24 hours a day and have 500 hours a week, I was just never going to catch up. You just get down to that thing where you do the most important stuff and you just – you just keep patching the holes in the pirate ship or whatever's on fire. You try and put that out.

Sometimes you just fucking let it burn. We didn't need that. Sometimes the best way to complete your to-do list is to just scrap it. Just let it burn. I think that's my new shirt. I think that's – maybe that's the new show motto. Chris Voss Show, let it burn. Anyway, there's probably

some jokes we could do about Twitter, but I think we're pre-recording this. So people later will just go like, what is he referring to? So, drowning in work. You have a system called the CPR, Business Efficiency Framework.

Give us a teaser on that. Is that the real key, that framework to not drown so much? Yeah. I mean, let me back up and maybe just share a bit about how I came up with that because I think it'll give a little bit of context to the listeners now on how I kind of came about it and what kind of teams that's useful for. But about a few years ago, I was meeting up with my business partner. We were meeting at a co-working space. I was grabbing my coffee and he taps me on the shoulder,

says he needs to talk and he tells me he's leaving. And it's not that he's leaving in two weeks. It's not that he's leaving in two days. He's leaving in two minutes. So I've got two minutes to figure out what the hell to do here. And I felt like the weight of the world just kind of fell on me. I was like, holy crap, there's no way that this is going to work. I was like, my palms were sweating. I was just like, you know, borderline shaking. And so he leaves. And then I'm sitting there by myself thinking, okay, are we going to actually be able to do this? And at that point, we had a lot of success on the surface. We had grown to seven figures in the first year. I had 150 people on my team, hundreds of clients.

We were growing at 20% a month. We were really focused on growth and we were neglecting a lot of, you know, you'd said before patching the pirate ship. We had neglected patching that pirate ship and the foundation. We were just kind of grow, grow at all costs so under the hood why my palms were sweating was because we one we had no org chart it was just he was head of people and i was head of kind of everything else so the team and clients only knew who he was. They didn't know who I was. So that was a bit of a problem. Two, we were growing at 20% a month,

but we had 15% churn. So every month, 15% of clients were leaving. And so what that means, when you lose the face of the company, you lose that 20% new clients and you're just left with a hole in your pirate ship of 15% out every month. And we had three quarters of a million dollars of debt, losing half a million dollars a year. I'm cashing out my 401k.

Dad taking a second on the house to loan to make payroll. So on and so forth. You get the picture. It was not an easy time. And so I had two choices. I could either bankrupt the company or I did see a path to fixing it. And that's kind of the genesis of the CPR framework. I could see, okay, we've got all this complexity. 150 people is not the easiest team size to manage in your first year um but i could see where we were struggling and i could see yeah i know it's like it's laughable i bet yeah i've seen that movie

yeah it's a bad movie to watch to be honest and um complexity scales exponentially so it's not that like going from 50 people to 150 is three times more complex. It's like 300 times more complex. And so, you know, we made that mistake of just, you know, grow at all costs. And we hit a ceiling. We hit this wall where we were just too big to handle. Our systems and processes didn't support the size we were. We had accumulated all this operational debt, and we were out of bandwidth.

And when you're out of bandwidth, the worst thing you can do, which is the natural knee-jerk reaction for most business owners, is you hire more people to get more bandwidth. But at some point, you kind of get to the problem I had where you're 150 people, and you're missing missing that foundation and you're spending all your time just trying to stop drowning in work. That's come up for air. So I started kind of breaking down a strategy on how we're going to fix this. And it took a few years to actually turn this around. But I started realizing kind of there's three buckets that we need to be thinking about to be efficient. And we needed to communicate more efficiently. We needed to organize tasks and projects more efficiently. And we had always done a pretty

good job of documenting knowledge. But that was another kind of critical area of focus. And because my first book that you mentioned, plus people just seeing from the outside, re-navigating this ship, people started reaching out, asking for help with their internal efficiency. And I soon realized that the same framework and the same thinking process that was starting to turn us around was helping many other companies. And it didn't matter if they were in tech, if they were a coach, if you're a financial advisor, distributor, anything. And we've worked at this point with companies ranging from Meta to Tony Robbins to Poo-Pourri to, you know, a company that's, you know, a small financial advisor firm, and everyone had the same issues. And so over the

better part of the past 10 years of launching this company and kind of refining this framework, we've really solidified kind of what we believe to be the secret formula to, um, I don't want to say secret formula, but framework that any company can apply to their team, no matter whether you're a 10, 100,000 person company to be more efficient. And that's the CPR framework. You need to communicate internally with your team, externally with clients. You need to plan internally with your team, externally with clients. You need to plan. You've got tasks and projects.

And then you've got your resources, your SOPs, your processes, your intellectual property. Every company on the face of the planet has those three things. And if you have a strategy around what tools you use to solve each of those buckets, you can save up to a business day a week per employee in your company. Wow. So you could get to four days a week, maybe. Well, it's up to you. You could have your team work four days a week to get the same output as five. You could have them work five days a week and now you have the output of six that's that's on you but my mission is to remove the crap from the world in terms of where time is wasted like if i could be known for saving

millions and millions of hours and i i'm not here to tell you hey this is a good use or bad use of time that's on you i'm here though if you don't like doing something like no one likes having to dig through you know emails and dropbox folders because it's disorganized and they they you don't like doing something, like no one likes having to dig through, you know, emails and Dropbox folders because it's disorganized and they just don't know where information lives. Like no one on the face of the planet enjoys going on what I call the scavenger hunt. So if you can just make it easier, allow people to answer questions or retrieve information in as few clicks as possible and as few seconds as possible, I will feel I've accomplished my mission.

Hi, folks. Chris Voss here with a little station break. I hope you're enjoying the show so far. We'll resume here in a second. I'd like to invite you to come to my coaching, speaking, and training courses website. You can also see our new podcast over there at chrisvossleadershipinstitute.com. Over there, you can find all the different stuff that we do for speaking engagements, if you'd like to hire me, training courses that we offer, and coaching for leadership, management, entrepreneurism, podcasting, corporate stuff. With over 35 years of experience in business and running companies as a CEO.

I think I can offer a wonderful breadth of information and knowledge to you or anyone that you want to invite me to for your company. Thanks for tuning in. We certainly appreciate you listening to the show. And be sure to check out chrisfossleadershipinstitute.com. Now back to the show. You know, that was one of the challenges I had when I had my business was a knowledge base. And so I was always having to be the knowledge base.

When I would train, I would have to be like. And one of my techniques was always not only explaining to people how to do something, but why we do it. And that was always really important to me. I talked about it in my book where why, here's why we do things. And the reason I would teach them the why and how we built it is so that if they could innovate it, if they could change it, if they could see why we did it, and plus it gave them a deeper meaning. If someone understands why we do that as opposed to just like,

go stand there and just pull the lever all day long, right? Understanding the why behind it, what it means and why it's important. And a lot of times, sometimes an employee was, didn't happen often because, you know, a lot of people don't think about their jobs, but sometimes someone would come to me and go, you know, these, all these steps that you have here, if you eliminate these one or two, you can innovate this and make it easier. Unless you're a best employees, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Usually. Yeah. Um, you know, I, I learned a long time ago as the CEO, you know, I don't have all the answers. I ran out of the answers in the first five minutes. But no. So the CPR, does that stand for some sort of... Communicate, plan, resource, and, you know, play on words. You know, we're resuscitating your business. So you're drowning in work. CPR helps you resuscitate. Also, those are the three buckets that you need to be operationally efficient.

But I think what you just said is very profound. Making sure people understand the why behind these things, even with the CPR framework, it's important because it's impossible as a leader in a company to spell out every single rule and policy. You'd be just doing that nonstop and get no work done. So, you know, coming up with principles or, you know, documenting the most critical, but letting people fill in gaps and they can only fill in gaps if they understand kind of the underlying why or principles, which is why a lot of companies go through a core value exercise because if people understand kind of at a high level those five or so kind of critical things that mean the most to you and the why behind it it's kind of like you're giving them an invisible manager that can sit beside them and help them make better decisions

where a better decision is faster and more accurate and so understanding the why behind things i think is a very profound thing that you just said. And I like what you said too, where you mentioned about how it's the, you know, the company, you know, why it's important to the company and the company, I think what was it? There was a term used, it wasn't mantra, but the company values, I think is what you said. The core values. So, you know, they can see how all the pieces fit together and how it means something and hopefully it means something back to them. So I like that you built this stuff. You know, I went through the same sort of experience where I had a business partner come to me after 13 years and throw in the towel, not only throw in the towel, but the company they were supposed to

oversee, they ran into the ground to file bankruptcy so they would take all of our companies down. And I had one week to save it from bankruptcy. So that was fun. So how did you turn it around? I basically spent 40 hours, 48 hours trying to dig up what he'd done. He'd overseen one of the businesses. And thankfully in my case, I'd built the business 13 years earlier so like all of our original customers were still there and they all knew me um they had seen me for about 10 years but they all they all knew the power of you know i was the one that sold them and signed them up back in the day and so uh but no it took a lot of he he he'd been spending so much money and wasting so

much money. It was insane. And his idea somehow was this concept. He came up with it. If he, he could walk away from all the debt. Cause in the same case, like you had, uh, we had a lot of debt. Um, and we just gone through the recession and so it had created a lot of issues when we had to fix her.

Yeah, it was the, it was, it was one of the first recessions in the 2000s. But, yeah, we had to do that. But this is really important because, you know, there is so much waste. There is so much stuff. I mean, even today I sit around my office and go, I need to do like 500 things a day. You know, a lot of the stuff that I'd like to do or projects that I'd like to work on or stuff. But there's, you know, we put up a meme recently on LinkedIn that was kind of funny that got

just resonated with so many people. And it was this gal from TikTok who said, you want to know how to get successful in business? Here's how I'll tell you. And she goes, what you do is if you got to make a decision on something, instead of making a decision on something, you of making a decision on something, you go schedule a meeting with a bunch of 20 other people to help you suss it out. And then you just create subsequent meetings to plan it out and decide if it's a good idea.

And then you go hold a whole new meeting. And then when you're done with that, you just scrap the idea and say, we need to redesign this decision again and then do it all over again. And I mentioned they give you executive assistance where you pretty much have them waste their time 24-7. It's all about wasting time. And I see so many people in today's world, they're complaining about, you know, the 12 Zoom calls a day that could have been an email, you know, the emails that could have been, you know, a phone call or a message or a text message. You know, they're complaining about all these things today that's going on in the world.

There's a lot of waste. And I think that, you know, people are over hiring when they don't need to because they're only getting maybe 50% or 60% of what they could out of their staff. I mean, I've seen some cases where it's even lower. But, you know, if you can free up people's time, eliminate that scavenger hunt and move them from 50% to 80%, like and get an extra 30% or so out of each person, it really reduces the pressure of hiring people. And it's not just the amount of money that you save on that hire, think about all of the effort, energy, time, resources, and money to interview and recruit those people. Usually when you hire someone,

it takes X number of months to get value out of them. It's not that day one, they hit the ground running and just like adding tons of value and you're making your money back. And even if that were the case, every person adds exponential complexity. Every person makes it exponentially harder to collaborate and coordinate in terms of how information can transfer. So freeing up all those inefficiencies and optimizing when should you Zoom,

when should you Loom, when should you email, when should you... It When should you loom? When should you email? When should you, you know, it's not rocket science, but that stuff can actually add up to that extra business day a week and really help. And it's not also about time. Culture is something that we have to talk about too. This, this increases culture. I think that having a staff, a team that's less stressed, right right because stress is a large part of stress on teams right now is they're overworked you can't remember like what did i do today did i give chris back that you know the the show notes of the podcast i don't know um let me go and look around on my desk because they don't have a system they don't have a system. They don't have a trusted system where you click a button

and you know the status of what do I need to do? What is my team doing? What's past due? What are my priorities? You know, things are all over the place and it's just more stressful. Balls get dropped and it's not because you have necessarily

bad untrustworthy team members. You have bad processes and bad systems that causes people to drop balls. But the byproduct is trust deteriorates. If I know that I've only got a 50% shot, if I ask you to edit this podcast and get it to me by Friday, and I know historically only five out of 10 times that's going to happen. I might think you're a good guy. And I might trust you ethically that you're not going to steal, but I might not trust you to deliver that podcast. And then that gives me anxiety. Our relationship deteriorates. Now I've got to send you a text, a Slack and an email because I'm not confident you're checking any of them. Right. And so like, I'm wasting all this time and energy going into like all these platforms chasing you.

Yeah. And that's no fun for me. Now you've got three messages to look at instead of one because like the other person giving the message doesn't. And it compounds and it compounds and it compounds. And if you could just get rid of that, it's not just you'll get more work done, but you'll get it done in a better, healthier way as a team and really increase the culture of the team. Business culture and environment is a huge thing. I learned that very early on. I think I knew that before I started my companies.

And that was a real important thing when I started our companies, having a good culture and a healthy culture. You know, one of the things we had in my company, and not to plug my book, but it's in there. But one of the things I wrote about was one of my favorite sayings was our motto was the only stupid question is the unasked question. I don't know where I stole that from, but it might have been Tom Peters. But, you know, so it created a culture in our environment where not only us explaining everything, the why, the how, who, what, why, where, what we do,

instead of just telling people, go sit in the corner and pull the lever. It created a culture where people would ask questions. And you have to have an environment where if people, you know, go, hey, I don't know something even though I didn't pay attention in training. Don't be mad at me. They had the ability and freedom where no one would be mad. They'd just be like, okay, great, let's just get you up to speed.

You know, please tell me. You know, the one thing I learned in my business, great, let's just get you up to speed. You know, please tell me. You know, the one thing I learned in my business, man, that one guy who slept through whatever the part of training was that told him don't push the lever to the right, just pull it up and down. A little lever callback from this show. You know, and they told him, if you go right with the lever, you'll break the 30,000 machine. That employee will break that 30,000 machine.

That guy who doesn't know what the F he's doing from his training, he will break the machine. He will cost you, he will bleed you out of money and, and, and give you the biggest wounds. And so for me, always having that, the only stupid question was the NS question mantra in our office. But I learned very early on that that culture, having that culture is really important. You know, you talked about how companies and people are constantly chasing stuff. I've seen companies where they're so, I don't know what the right word is, but they're so worried about losing their jobs and getting fired that they would spend all day writing memos about the meetings and about the emails just to try and make sure that they weren't one's blame for anything.

No, I think that is a big byproduct of a poor culture, but most likely people that are worried about that and spend their energy on that like there's probably no ceo that wants you know if it's between hey chris i want you to spend half your day writing a memo versus like hey chris could you do could you close some more deals and increase our revenue you know uh most ceos are going to want you to spend your time in better places. So I think that it's also a function. I talk about this in the book, not setting clear expectations with people to hold them accountable. And, you know, it could be how you do sprint planning and how you prioritize projects and how you hold people accountable to hitting certain deadlines. If you don't have systems to do that or a process,

that's tough. Also there's things. And again, we talked about this in the book and on that, on the website I mentioned, come up for air.com. We've got a whole bunch of other resources around, around this,

but OKRs objectives and key results is a goal setting framework. If, if people are really clear on what they're responsible for, like what targets they need to hit, it's kind of, it's hard to hide, but it's not so much about not allowing people to hide. It's creating that alignment. So people really know what they should be prioritizing right now without being told. So if someone's spending all their time on a memo, to me, the first thing I think about is leadership probably failed in making it very clear to them that memo, but depending on their job function, unless they're a full-time memo generator, they probably have some other key results and KPIs

they need to be thinking about. Well, and you're living in fear. I mean, it would be these environments of fear, and they were just writing their friend's company. It was just constantly covering their ass. I was interviewing with Bob, and Bob said this, and I didn't say it, and everything was about documenting, not getting fired, covering your ass. I was interviewing with Bob, and Bob said this, and I didn't say it, and everything was about

documenting not getting fired and covering your ass. It drives me nuts are these cultures where it's like you just build decks and slides to make it seem like you're busy and adding value. It's like, no. Care about, did you hit the key results that we sat down at the beginning of

the quarter, and we established what does success look like in 90 days? Did you hit those things or not? And that should really be what matters, you know, matters the most. There you go. There you go. Well, anything more you want to tease out of the book before we go out? We, of course, want them to buy the book, so we can't give them all the secrets. Well, you know, go to comeupforair.com. And, you know, if you're interested in this and want to make your team more efficient, I can guarantee that this is going to save hours. But I'll leave you with this. You know, work can be easier where there doesn't need the work right work is getting done on time and every time and it and it can be easier and you can move faster forward without the setbacks and i've just seen so many times where people are drowning in work unnecessarily and i really hope that this

helps people to come up for air yeah i'll read it because I'm drowning in work right now. It's just like this is the number one time of the day it seems. And I'm not even writing memos covering my ass because I don't have to worry about getting fired. Look, I wrote the book because I was drowning in work, so I know firsthand what it's like. You know, this is really big for entrepreneurs too because we're so bad at just taking everything on and doing everything ourselves.

It's even harder when you're so used to being that sort of enigma when you work with other people. I know some people have a hard time delegating. I don't. I'm just like, please, go do it. Just get it away from me.

But, yeah, it makes a whole mess of difference. So we'll look forward to seeing this book. So tell us again, when does it come up for air? February 7th. Check it out in all your local bookstores and Amazon. There you go. It's coming out February 7th, 2023. Come Up For Air, How Teams Can Leverage Systems and Tools to Stop Drowning and Work.

Nick Sonnenberg has been with us today. Thank you, Nick, for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. Thanks for having me, Chris. It was a lot of fun. There you go. And give us a.com as we go out so people can find that on those inner tubes in the sky. So, again, you can go to comeupforair.com

and find out more information about the book, where to buy it. Also, we have some discounts if people want to buy it for their teams. We've got some goodie bonuses there as well as free bonus content to supplement the book. There you go. Well, thanks everyone for tuning in.

Go to youtube.com, FortressCruiseFallSolarGroups on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, all those crazy places the kids are playing nowadays be good to each other stay safe and we'll see you guys next time