The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Culture Hacker by Shane Green, Founder & President of SGEi

Episode Date: June 8, 2021

Culture Hacker by Shane Green, Founder & President of SGEi SGEinternational.com ShaneGreen.com HACK YOUR WORKPLACE CULTURE FOR GREATER PROFITS AND PRODUCTIVITY "I LOVE THIS BOOK!" ―CHESTER ELTON, New York Times bestselling author of All In and What Motivates Me "When companies focus on culture, the positive effects ripple outward, benefiting not just employees but customers and profits. Read this smart, engaging book if you want a practical guide to getting those results for your organization." ―MARSHALL GOLDSMITH, executive coach and New York Times bestselling author "Most books on customer service and experience ask leaders to focus on the customer first. Shane turns this notion on its head and makes a compelling case why leaders need to make 'satisfied employees' the priority." ―LISA BODELL, CEO of Futurethink and author of Why Simple Wins "This is a must read for anyone in a customer service-centric industry. Shane explains the path to creating both satisfied customers and satisfied employees." ―CHIP CONLEY, New York Times bestselling author and hospitality entrepreneur The question is not, "does your company have a culture?" The question is, "does your company have a culture that fosters outstanding customer experiences, limits employee turnover, and ensures high performance?" Every executive and manager has a responsibility to positively influence their workplace culture. Culture Hacker gives you the tools and insights to do it with simplicity and style. Culture Hacker explains: Twelve high-impact hacks to improve employee experience and performance How to delight and retain a multi-generational workforce The factors determining whether or not your employees deliver outstanding customer service

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com, thechrisvossshow.com. Hey, we're coming to you with another great podcast.

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Today, again, we have a most brilliant author and gentleman on the show. He is a gentleman who's written a book called Culture Hacker. We'll be talking a little bit about his book there and the multiple other things he does. His name is Shane Green, and this episode is brought to you by our sponsor,

ifi-audio.com, and their Micro-iDSD Signature. It's a top-of-the-range desktop transportable DAC and headphone app that will supercharge your headphones. It has two Brown-B Burr DAC chips in it and will decode high-res audio and MQA files. We're using it in the studio right now. I've loved my experience with it so far. It just makes everything sound so much more richer and better and takes things to the next level.

IFI Audio is an award-winning audio tech company with one aim in mind, to improve your music enjoyment of quality sound, eradicate noise, distortion, and hiss from your listening experience. Check out their new incredible lineup of DACs and audio enhancement devices at ifi-audio.com. And he's the president and founder of the company SGEI. He's a world-renowned keynote speaker. He's the author of Culture Hacker and a TV personality. He is a business consultant and strategist who works with global Fortune 500 leaders around the world on elevating customer experience and organizational culture. Shane draws upon his Kiwi upbringing, work with the Ritz-Carlton Hotel Company, and his projects across multiple industries to transform employee experiences to improve individual and organizational performance.

His work has been featured in HBR, Forbes, Bloomberg Business, and Inc. Magazine. As the president and founder of SGEI, Shane leads a team of professionals around the world who partner with brands like the nba madison square garden westfield msc cruises mgm resorts international footlocker net jets incorporated cisco systems united airlines and bmw to reprogram their employee experiences and create loyal customers and raving fans. And guess what? Here he is on the show. Shane, how are you? Chris, very cool. Thanks for getting me on, man. Long time. Hey, listen, two Vegas guys in this crazy world. It took us the remote virtual kind of world to get us together. Come on. Long time overdue. There you go. And hopefully we can get together in

Vegas again. We both have to return home eventually. Exactly. We will definitely catch up. Thanks for having me on. Yeah. I feel better now because I felt like I was the only guy who exited out of Vegas for the coronavirus. But I know you did. Of course, you made the smarter play.

I wish my mom and my family didn't see that. So that would have been pretty good. Yeah. Listen, we get a bit of a timeout. So it's cool. But we'll hook back up in Vegas when we're back for sure. There you go. So Shane, give us your plugs for people

and find you on the interwebs and learn more about you. And listen, you can find me under Shane Green. ShaneGreen.com is easy. But S-G-E-I-S-G-E-International.com. Come and visit us. We got lots of freebie stuff on there. Stuff, a guide, videos, media, all of that sort of stuff. Or just connect.

Connect at ShaneGreen.com and reach out if you've got questions after this or anything we've got going on. We're always happy to talk and engage. It's a great time right now to have some really cool conversations about the future of work, future of what we're doing in terms of the business world and taking care of customers. So a lot going on, lots to talk about. Lots of redesigning that we can do in the planning of what's going to move forward. So give us a little bit of background on you. What was your upbringing? What got you to this place?

What motivated you to start this company and write the book? Yeah, listen, you hit it in there, McKee. We based in New Zealand the first 21 years. It's really cool. In New Zealand, when you hit 21 or you finish college, they kick you out of the country. It's not official, but it feels like that. They encourage you to go and explore the world. Young New Zealanders, they get their visa.

They go to a couple of different countries. They always end up in the UK to get drunk for three years. And then the idea is that they're meant to get back to New Zealand at about 25. I didn't do that. I was very fortunate. I got hooked in with the Ritz Carlton Hotel Company, got this amazing sort of background of customer,

hospitality service, all that stuff, good culture. And then I started my own business and it has evolved from being very customer-centric focused. We did a lot of work in 2000 and 2010 as they were really looking at the whole customer experience economy, how do customers enjoy different products and services. So we did a lot of mapping and studying of the key moments in the customer's experience and their buying cycle. And then we would elevate, we'd provide the training, the tools, really start to think about what the employees needed to be able to be successful with the customer.

That then evolved to really starting to look at the employees as a standalone and looking at an employee experience economy in terms of what does the employees need to be motivated to get fired up to come to work every day. So it's been a really cool evolution. And in between that, we found ourselves working with a lot of organizations on their leadership development, developing their culture, but really understanding from an operational side, how do you take care of a customer? And at the same time on an internal side, how we take care of the employees. So we've got a consulting practice based here in las vegas uh we've got a training business so we not only develop strategies but we activate all these programs globally with a really cool group

of people that we work with so it's uh and again vegas has great sort of centralized spot when you're playing around the world and having to travel quite a bit yeah and plus it's so easy to travel in and out of mccarran and it's great for people to travel too we do so many shows there and we're looking forward to see neb and ces and all the big shows and they've changed the i don't know if you've probably even seen it yet but they've changed the whole uh conference thing that we have there and they did i think it was a billion dollar expansion or some crap it was awesome well yeah it's been going for a while. So I saw it way back when it started to happen.

So yeah, listen, Vegas, Chris, you know better than anything. Vegas is the best at reinventing itself. And that's why it's such a great model for so many businesses. Every time it gets beaten up, it always takes a moment. It steps back. And this is really what a lot of companies we're talking to right now have to do. They got beaten up. It's been a tough year for everybody. Employees have been beaten up, but it's, he can step back. And this is really what a lot of companies we're talking to right now have to do. They got beaten up. It's been a tough year for everybody. Employees have been beaten up, but

it's he can step back. Now look, what do I need? What are my customers now telling us? I always believe I use Las Vegas as a model and say, they step back and go, what do our customers want from us now? And then they focus absolutely relentlessly on delivering it really well. As we look back, like all things, Vegas got beaten up more than anybody, but it will come back bigger, stronger, faster. There you go. There you go. Your company has made a name for itself in the CX space, helping organizations elevate their customer interactions. Tell us a little bit about some of the work that you do and what you've learned over the years. Yeah. So I think this, if you're listening into this and you're listening to customer experience

business, Daniel Kahneman's work, he's a behavioral psychologist, did a lot of stuff about understanding how to create memories. And I think his work probably had the biggest impact in the customer experience space. Loyalty is based on memories. It's how people live their experiences. And what he found, and again, I talk about this a lot, is what we've realized is that people experience our world as snapshots, not videos. And so what you have to understand is that say they're experienced with

a company, what we've found over the years is that it's not every second, every minute, they're judging you on how well you interact with them. There's certain key moments in that experience that are key to it. It might be the start. It might be the finish. It might be some emotional highlights in the middle. So what we have set back is we look at the customer journal. We ask organizations, when are you emotionally delighting your customer? When are you going to wow them? When are you going to create something memorable that will want them to come back? And this is where you've got to set. It doesn't have to be every second, every moment of every interaction, but it's like, how do you kick it off?

Do you make it easy for them? Do you make it fun for them? So you start by understanding the key moments in the journey and then you start to understand what do they want from us in that moment? When they're online filling out a form, they want it to be simple and easy. Great, let's make it simple and easy.

When they come to us in Vegas and they want to have that big night out, they want to be entertained like heck. So let's make it entertaining. So companies need to understand the moments and then apply what is the customer value from you in that moment. Is it easy? Is it fun? Is it entertaining? Is it thoughtful? Is it life-changing? All of those things come to play. And then once you understand the moments, what the customer wants, then you start building the tools and the training and your people around delivering that just at that moment. So I talk a lot about moments and I think it's one of the most important things probably that I've got out of business over the years. And I talk about it so much is don't think that every second of every interaction matters. But if you apply the peak end theory,

know that there has to be emotional highs and you want to do it at the right moment. We worked with the NBA on their season ticket holder program. And it was interesting because at the time, the NBA was very focused on win-loss and people would buy season tickets based on whether or not they thought

the team was going to be good for that season. What we wanted to be able to do is remove the win-loss from buying season tickets. We wanted to see the value go beyond what was happening on the court. So we started to map the key moments during a game. But what was even more important for these season ticket holders was outside the season. Did they have connection? Were they able to use the stadiums or use the team for many different ways and so we started

to understand that there were moments in and outside of the game that went beyond that and the NBA was groundbreaking in terms of creating a season ticket holder program that was all year round not just about what was happening in front of the season uh BMW we worked on the sales process nothing more painful than going to buy a car people just really don't like it we reimagined it if you go to a BMW dealership today, and listen, we didn't do anything mind-blowing because all we did was we looked at Apple and says the Apple genius,

which is that opportunity to come in and connect with someone who's not trying to sell you something every two seconds. So you go to buy a BMW today, how cool is it? You go in there, you don't deal with the sales guy, you deal with the BMW genius. Hey, their job is to let you try, buy, feel things out, go for test drives all day long if you want

to get your cup of coffee. It's just a different experience. And so those are the type of things that we have done and have come home that we tell organizations, look at the key moments in the customer experience, get some emotional connection going at certain key moments and make it a wow. Create memories. That's what brings people back. Create memories and great moments. That sounds amazing, man. It works. I'm telling you. And we started playing that same idea with the employees. Right now, gosh, I know companies have gone through a lot, but employees have gone through a lot in our hometown Vegas. So many employees have dealt with losing their jobs, family members, then you're dealing with the kids home from school in the last year. Then you're dealing with people that

have been sick. And there's just been so much going on. Even before the pandemic, we started shifting our same idea to understand what are the key moments in the employee's day, week, month, year, their experience with you. And we started to really get a good feel like there was eight moments in an employee's day that mattered whether or not they're having a good day. And it mattered to about 12 minutes. So instead of, we tell managers having to be on and doing things for employees all day long

for the whole eight hours, focus on for about 15 minutes, bring emotional intent and really make sure that they have a great day. Because the more people that have great days, the more they feel, you know, about, good about what they do and who they do it for. This idea of moments has been pretty powerful.

And it takes some of the pressure off and allows us to be a lot more strategic with companies to be smarter about where they're using their time, effort and energy to make an impact. Wow. So what's an example of an employee? What was it you mentioned before where you give them a 15 minute? An employee's day. So we've been tracking for 10 years. We do surveys and all of that. And so we've been really interested in what determines whether or not they have a good day.

And there's certain things that we've learned. And some of it's not rocket science. Like we know there's an important moment when an employee walks into work. And in their mind, there is consciously or subconsciously a question that says are they glad i'm here if you walk in and no one says hi no they're not glad i'm here it sets them back for the day now one day out of the week might not seem like a big deal but imagine if that happened to you every day yeah come into work and no one gives a damn so all of a sudden that changes it yet flip that around we say say, hey, managers, be smart.

When your employees arrive in all about the same time every day, five minutes, set yourself up by the clock. Make sure that they're there. Give them a good welcome. Do something cool. Make sure they go mad. I'm so glad you guys are here today. It completely changes the narrative. So, again, we all know we should welcome our employees every day.

But so many organizations still don't do it. At the end of the day, the employees at the end of the day, the question they have consciously or subconsciously is did I make a difference today? Guess what? Most of the time they go home, really not sure if they made a difference. So what we tell managers is say,

hey, at the end of the day, when your employees are walking out the door, say bye, but also tell them specifically, you guys rocked today. You made a difference. We crushed it. Let them go with that feeling. So it's moments like that. And those two that I gave you takes about two or three minutes at the beginning and the end every day. And yet the manager can have so much goodwill. So that's what we talk about. It's like, hey, understand the key moments

for the employee. Like during the day, catching an employee doing something well. That's an important moment. An employee every day does a ton of stuff. But if you catch them, and catch them means I saw you do it. Chris, that was an awesome way that you just picked up your coffee cup there and crushed that little drink of caffeine. I crushed that coffee cup. That was it. It makes you feel good.

But I saw you do it. I didn't make it up. Think about that for a second, though. That required me to get out my butt, out of my office, away from my desk, and come and see you have that little drink of coffee. I think it's coffee. I don't know. Vegas.

It's coffee. You know where we is. Okay. But I got to see it. So that's what we talk about. There's certain moments that you can have fun with, and you bring emotional intent. And when you bring emotional intent,

it's all about if I can make you feel good for a few seconds here and there throughout the day, you can walk out at the end of the day and go, yeah, it was a pretty good day. Now that doesn't mean it wasn't busy. That doesn't mean my shit went wrong. It doesn't mean that we had a tough day, but when you feel that as your manager, that I kind of care a little bit and that I've had your best interest at heart, it does matter. Yeah, it's just the little things, huh? It's a little, but it's those moments. But you've got to bring the right emotional energy. And that's what a lot of managers miss. Everyone's called a manager. There's a difference between manager and leadership at the same side of the two sides of the same coin. A manager gets promoted because they're really good at tasks

and managers make sure the tasks get done, accurate, efficiency, safety, all the mandatory stuff that is required to keep your operation going. Leadership is focused on people and it's about inspiring hearts and minds. And what's really important is you need both. So you need the management duties throughout the day and you need to do your leadership duties. Leadership is I'm going to make you feel good about what you do. And what I'm saying is that managers have a hard time. They like to play the management game because it's easier. It's the stuff they know. It's task orientated. People orientated is tough, man. It takes a lot of energy. And for some people, it's scary. But what we show them is that,

do all your manager tasks, the things you're really good at, but take time out each day to invest in your employees. And it can be little as 15 minutes a day. Get out of your office, go around. But when you're with your employees, ratchet up the emotion, just like we do with our customers. If you have a great customer experience, you build great reputation, you build brand. Guess what? With the employees, you have great employee experiences that starts to build that same type of loyalty and you start to have a great culture. And so that's where I've spent a lot of time is really studying what creates and makes a great culture. And as you said at the start, I wrote a book about it and I'm not an HR person or that, but I'm a business person who says, you know what? I know that I have a better

business when my employees are fired up and they feel good about what they do and who they do it for. There you go. There you go. So on your book, Culture Hacker, it was a guide for organizations of all sizes and industries and how to prove culture. Let's talk a little bit about culture and maybe a couple of things people can do to improve it. Yeah. So as I sort of said, culture is the product of the employee experience. So as I sort of said, employees are the product of the culture is the product of the employee experience. So it said, I've already said, I call it the three M's of employee experience strategy. So you've got to know the moments. We already talked about that.

You've got to know the mechanism. So in the book, Culture Hacker, actually, that was about the mechanisms that an organization employs or uses to create an employee experience. Things like their recruitment strategy, their recognition program, career conversation, how they communicate, all of those things go into it. So I wrote that with the idea of, hey, see how simple it is to hack some of your mechanisms to make it for a better outcome for those employees. Again, I talked about the moments. In those moments, an employee either interacts with a manager or a mechanism. And so those mechanisms, let's talk about recruitment. When you hire somebody, there's six key moments in the selection process that are really important for a new employee. And the biggest one is, do I feel connected to this company I'm about to work

for? Chris, it's crazy. Half of all the people that are going to leave their job this year will do so in the first 90 days. Now, why? Because during the recruitment process, they never got emotionally connected, which means they just took a job. And the second is that when they started that job, key moments, they didn't feel welcome. They didn't feel connected. They didn't understand the priorities and they didn't understand how to be successful. So taking back what I wrote, Culture Hacker was a bit of a guide to say, hey guys, here's some of the things you can do to make those moments. And then in the back of Culture Hacker, I also talk about the third M. So we've got moments, mechanisms, and then managers. What does a manager do or what should they do to inspire people to make them feel good

throughout the day? So when you bring those together, that's culture. And the thing to remember is it's not a question of whether or not you had a culture. Every company, every actual group of people has a culture because it's just the collective hearts and minds of a group of people. So in your employee base, it's collectively how they feel. So if someone's having a shit day and there's off, that doesn't mean you have a bad culture and you don't need to overreact because someone makes a mistake. What you do is you collectively go, Hey, for the most part on most days, do my people feel good? And that's what I learned in the Ritz Carlton hotel company, probably more than anything else is that you're always just conscious of like, how do my people feel? And Chris, the last year,

we had a lot of people out there that just don't feel good. And I know everyone's rushing back to work and it's business as usual, but it's not. What people have gone through in the last year, I've talked to people out there, it just, it'll break your heart what they've had to deal with. And yet they're expected to go back and business is normal. This is a really important time, I think, in our work lives, where we have a chance to really make a difference. It's the old saying, don't waste a good crisis. Don't waste the opportunity to really rethink not only how we work, but how we interact with the people that matter the most. In other words, how do we create the right culture that gets people feeling safe, wanted, proud, all the good stuff that people are just clinging for right now.

And that was taken away from them in some really dramatic sort of instances over the last 12 months. There you go. So what more should companies be doing to work with? There's this whole new standard now where some people are addicted to remote working. Some want hybrid. I've talked to a lot of friends who are doing hybrid right now and they kind of like it. They do like a thing where they go in for two or three days a week and they have rotational teams and they do that for safety too. Because the teams, if one gets sick on the team and infect, but the amount of the employees there, one of the values they're looking for is some of them might want to move to companies that where they can work remotely. I've had a couple of my friends that used to work in California, Silicon Valley companies as tech people, since they've been able to work remotely, they've moved to Vegas because they're just like, I don't need to put up with the four or five hours a day in traffic going back and forth to San Francisco again.

So I'm going to move and keep doing remote. And that's going to be a new competition, I think, for employers where they're going to be competing for not only a smaller workforce right now, everyone's having trouble and everyone's having to raise wages. And we're going to go through some hyperinflation, it looks like. That's going to become a concern. Do we offer remote? Do we offer hybrid?

How do we engage with everybody and make sure that we have everyone happy? Because there's probably some people who are going to quit and go, if they're like, hey, you got to come into the office now from here on out, they're probably going to be like, I'm going to go find somebody who pays me more right now since there's a lack of us. Yeah. So listen, so what's happened in the last 12 months is the whole world's opened up. We considered ourselves a global economy. Now we're a global workforce economy.

Listen, I'm talking to you from New Zealand right now. We're working. So you know what? I'm talking to my people all around the world each and every day. So what you've touched on, I think, is massive for people to understand. We've been tracking, and again, we've talked about what people value. You hit on something. People, particularly young people, have always valued workplace flexibility.

They wanted to have a little bit more movement on their hours. They wanted to say a little bit more about when they worked, how they work, and they wanted that ability to be able to work from home. It was the number one benefit requested. Now, what happened is a lot of companies said, hell no. Why? Because they're traditional and they want to be able to control you, which means the only way they know how to control you is if they're sitting in the office or in the workforce and they're right next to you. I'm like, I can control that. Well, pandemic just pulled that off and says, deal with it. So now you've got this whole sort of workforce that's being used to home and has worked from home and says, you know what, this is pretty good.

Now, the biggest fear was that people working from home would be lazy. In fact, every bit of research is what they've actually become more efficient. What they've also been able to do is they've actually helped their wellness a little bit. And there is one caveat, which I'll talk about, that what's happened is that people over the pandemic, we've become caregivers. We've had to deal with our kids working, doing school at home. We've got our parents and other people in our lives that we've had to care for. And traditionally, it's been very tough to juggle all of these balls.

Guess what? We work from home and we're able to do it. So all of a sudden, it's like you said, why would I go back into a workplace when I can't be a great parent, be a great son or daughter, be a great all of the things, all the different hats that we want to wear. So I think there's an absolute revolution coming that hybrid or virtual is here to stay. The thing that's interesting is that I'm seeing more and more with the trend towards a gig economy was becoming incredible, which means people were not looking for the traditional

nine to five, 40 hour a week jobs. What we're seeing is that young people are starting to go, when can I earn the most money? I'm going to drive my Uber car on Saturday nights from 7pm to 3am in the morning because I make a ton of money. I'm going to do my design job on Monday and Tuesday mornings because that's when I get to think. I'm going to do my podcast here. I'm going to do my advertising over here. I'm going to turn up and be a coach for my son's team here. What we're seeing is people are starting to build lives and they're building work around it as opposed to the having to build their lives around their work. So I think that's shifting. And I think we're in this almost employee experience economy. We're

in the customer experience economy. The employee experience economy is going to have such a big impact. And those companies that are very traditional and still want to control are going to have a real tough time attracting the very best talent. Because the very best talent has always been based on who will come into the office. Now the very best talent is sitting in basements, kitchens, offices, home offices, bedrooms, all around the world. And everyone's going, damn, they can work. They can deliver. So I think you're right, Chris. I think things have changed.

Now, the only caveat is, is that people are now unable to disconnect at all. People are always on. They're always Zooming. They're always teching. They're always on. So we're starting to see some companies not only get the flexibility part,

but they're also going, there has to be tech flexibility. They're turning people off. I've got companies that got a tech free Thursday, meeting free Fridays, I was reading about Bumble doing a whole week in June where there's no technology. How crazy is that? But that's where we're going to have to start going to because mental health and wellness is a thing. It needs to be addressed. And part of it is to let people know that they can disconnect. And yeah, you're seeing a huge shift right now. But the funny thing is, if you come back to the idea of culture, which is collectively, how do they feel about what they do and who they do it for? The companies that got this, they've done fine in the last 12 months, because they always took care of their people. They always listened to their people. They always adjusted how they work to their people. And you see, that's why I think you're

seeing some companies excel and are going to continue to attract the best talent while others are going to be there complaining. And listen, I've gone through it. They're going to sit around and complain all day that people are so disloyal and they don't want to work anymore. And people are lazy. They'll bitch and complain all day long. And the reality is the reason that no one wants to come and work for you is because you suck, is because you don't take care of your people. Is that a scientific term? It is. And again, just like you with your science about clear skin

by listening to this show, man, I'm telling you, it might not be scientific, but it is proven, and just go on the glass door that plenty of people are on there saying this company sucks that's true that's true that's it i always love to go to some companies and read their glass door stuff because oh it's terrific and again and again it's like those things that you go oh i've heard companies say oh don't go to glass door it's just a bunch of fired employees who are miserable at life and And I go, that's how

all of this begins. And yet, if someone is looking for a job today, Chris, there's three things that they'll do. They'll go onto the company website and look to see if they can learn anything about the company. They'll go and Google them to see if they've been in the news. And they'll go onto Glassdoor and see what the old employees said. So you can bitch and complain all day long about Glassdoor, but the reality is it's here to stay. And yet it's amazing how few companies engage in Glassdoor and respond and actually try to make it a difference because they understand that people are listening,

they're watching and seeing how companies and what's being said about them. I'm glad I'm not invested in commercial office space right now because I don't see it being flooded again with employees. In fact, a lot of here in Utah, I've seen a lot of buildings go up and they're just sitting empty. And when you're doing commercials office space, when you start something, a lot of the projects were started before the coronavirus, you have to finish the damn building and then let it sit. But I don't see it.

We have to change it because you're going to go wide. So it goes back to why should people come into the office? It's not to work, but what there is missing and what everyone has missed is the social interaction. I think this is where you've got to come back to it because whether we like it or not, work plays a huge part in our social well-being. It has always been the place where we can connect, office, talk about sport, do all of those things. People have really missed that. So what's evolving, and this is where I think the hybrids got it right, is create reasons to come into work. Come in and do all your meetings in one day. Come in and do recognition. Come in and do some team building, come and bring people together for

a short period of time and then get them out. But let them understand that the office is their community hub. It's like your local bar. You know what? It's nice to go to that local bar a couple of nights a week. You go in there, people make you feel good. It's an important part of your social DNA. The office is going to become more like that. It's going to be an important part of your week, but it's not an everything part of the week. You got to turn up a couple of days. There'll be times when you want to go in there because they'll have access to equipment or things that you might need that is beyond the home office. But at the end of the day, the evolution of like, well, they have to be sitting there eight to 10 hours a day for work to get done is gone. But the office being a community type hub for those that work there, that's only going to get better throughout all this.

Wow. There you go. There you go. So anything more we want to touch on before we go out, Shane? Oh, gosh, man. We keep talking about so much stuff. Oh, yeah. We crammed in a lot.

But at the end of the day, you know, I think it's I just talk to a lot of companies crammed in a lot. back to work, just understand that their lives changed dramatically in the last 12 months. Their lives were turned upside down to some of them. So tragically, it's crazy to understand it. I think we have to be very empathetic. We have to be very understanding, but most importantly, don't think it's business as usual. Don't think people are just going to be glad to get back in the office for the sake of having an office. It's about all the good things that good companies and cultures do. It's about providing purpose, providing the way to engage and make a difference in a daily basis. That's the reasons people come into work and want to come into work. Now I've ripped this bandaid off.

It's this is the time to take a moment, sit back, be curious. You meet any manager or business person out there that says they know it all right now, I call bullshit. You don't know anything. You've got to be curious right now. You've got to be curious about your customers,

curious about your employees. So the only got to be curious right now. You got to be curious about customers, curious about your employees. So the only way to be curious is to ask questions. And for a lot of business people, they're meant to know it all. They try to know it all. They think they know it all. I think it's a dangerous place to be. Be curious, really take some time to learn about what the needs of your people, whether it's customers or employees, and then be willing to adjust and adapt.

You know what? It seems simple and I try to oversimplify it, but it does come down to that. People just want to know that you're willing to listen, whether it's the customer or the employee. And probably the most important thing is I've worked with companies through these last 12 months. The best ones just said, you know what? It's not business as usual.

Let's just listen. Let's just talk. Let's have conversations like ever before and try and work out this together, what the new customer experience looks like and what our employees really want. That sure makes sense. just talk let's have conversations like ever before and try and work out this together what the new customer experience looks like and what our employees really want that sure makes sense a lot more empathy and a lot more listening and you know this is hard on everybody and some people are suffering from probably what's ptsd and a lot of people are probably still grieving over losses i don't know anybody who wasn't impacted by this and so maybe some few but everybody i know was

impacted uh either a death or a loss or someone in the hospital. Some people are still grieving and stuff. So that's a factor. Yeah. Yeah. And let's not get onto our whole healthcare system, which is still under burden and stress and anxiety. We've got doctors and nurses leaving the industry at 100 miles an hour. They're pretty much given their whole lives.

In some cases, their real lives to help keep us safe. Yeah. Listen, it's just one of those times where you go hey the euphoria or feeling that this is over it's actually not over but it's a really important stepping stone that we make some good decisions as humans to really just think about what we do who we do it for culture is not a i do i have a culture or not as i said it's everybody has a culture and And if we can, or we consider it regardless, remember it's any group of people. It could be your family, it could be your sports team. It could be your community, your bunch of friends, your work, all of these things, they're all got

their own culture. And this is that time where we should all just sit back and go, Hey, let's just check in on everybody and make sure in those close groups and those people that are important to us that we check in and say, Hey, how's everybody doing? Let's not make any assumptions right now. Yeah, there you go. There you go. Shane, it's been wonderful to have you on the show. You've given us a brilliant perspective and ideas and who you are and what your company does and what the future holds for the business of well being in business and employees and stuff. Give us your plug so people can find you on the interwebs. Cool, man. It's SGE. So just S so just S-G-E, international.com. Come to the website, connect at S-G-E, international.com,

or you can just reach out to me directly, shangreen.com. I'm there. As I said, there's a ton of videos, media out there. Connect with us on Twitter, LinkedIn, all the usual stuff. I'm easy to find. But most importantly, let's just talk. As I said, we're having a lot of great conversations right now. So if there's anything that sparked your interest,

don't be shy about it. Happy to help. We've got a lot of content, a lot of great conversations right now. And so if there's anything that sparked your interest, don't be shy about it. Happy to help. We've got a lot of content, a lot of guides, a lot of stuff right now we've been sharing for the last 12 months just to help everyone get to where they need to be. Awesome, Sauce. Thank you very much for being on the show, Shane,

and sharing this all with us. Pleasure, man. Thanks. All right. And continue to stay safe there in New Zealand. You're in the safest place in the world. Hey, man. We'll see you when I get back over to Vegas. You and I will be over there, okay?

Definitely look forward to it. Definitely look forward to it. All right, bud. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in. Go to youtube.com for just Chris Voss at the bell notification button or for all your friends and neighbors relatives to the show. Go to goodreads.com for just Chris Voss. See everything we're reading and reviewing. Check out Shane's book as well. Also go to all of our groups on Facebook, LinkedIn, all those things. You can just search the Chris Voss show and you'll find them everywhere. Thanks for tuning in, guys. Stay safe. Wear your mask, you know, wear your mask or be vaccinated, one of the two, and we'll see you guys next time.