The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Cybersecurity Expert Kelvin Green on Protecting Businesses from Hacking

Episode Date: January 10, 2025

Cybersecurity Expert Kelvin Green on Protecting Businesses from Hacking Cybersecandi.com About the Guest(s): Kelvin Green is a seasoned IT and cybersecurity expert with over 20 years of experience. He has served in prominent roles such as the infrastructure and operations lead for the Kentucky Health Benefits Exchange and has designed security systems for the Navy. Beyond his technical expertise, Kelvin is a mental health advocate, bringing a personal understanding of behavioral analytics to his work. Currently, he is the founder of Cyber Second, a cybersecurity advisory company focused on helping organizations understand and implement effective security measures. Episode Summary: In this engaging episode of The Chris Voss Show, host Chris Voss invites cybersecurity expert Kelvin Green to share his insights on the evolving landscape of IT and cybersecurity. With a diverse background in supporting both public and private sectors, Kelvin highlights the complexity of protecting valuable data in an ever-connected world. His candid exploration of his career journey, which spans from working as a game tester to navigating the corridors of the Navy, provides a compelling narrative about resilience and growth. Kelvin presents his philosophy on cybersecurity, emphasizing that it’s not just about having the right tools but understanding the specific needs and behaviors of an organization. With AI-driven threats emerging, Kelvin warns of the critical need for businesses to rethink their data protection strategies. His company, Cyber Second, aims to bridge the gap between technology and human behavior, offering tailored solutions to help organizations be more resilient against cyber attacks. As the discussion unfolds, Kelvin’s passion for helping others through his unfortunate experiences, such as a past encounter with the legal system, demonstrates a deep commitment to not only security but also the human elements involved in technological challenges. Key Takeaways: Unique Perspectives: Kelvin Green offers a fresh take on cybersecurity by integrating user behavior analytics with traditional security measures. AI and Threats: The rise of AI technology not only enhances capabilities but also increases the sophistication of cyber attacks, making proactive security approaches essential. Resiliency in Cybersecurity: Kelvin stresses the importance of resilience and preparedness in countering threats to protect organizational reputation and critical services. Customized Security Solutions: Cyber Second provides personalized cybersecurity strategies, ensuring tools and processes align with each client's specific goals and operations. Impact of Personal Experience: Personal challenges have shaped Kelvin’s understanding of security, driving his mission to help businesses through adversity. Notable Quotes: "AI is not going to sleep tonight." "When you get hacked, the damage to your reputation is massive." "My goal is to connect you with the services that you need and help you to save money." "You don't wanna be down, you don't want to have the noise out there, the bad press."

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hey, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. Ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, that makes it official. Welcome to the show. We certainly appreciate you guys being here. As always, we have the smartest people on the show, the CEOs, I'll save the world. better and as always we just enjoy having them on the show 16 years over 2200 episodes make sure you refer the show to your family friends or relatives

or I'll drive out to your house knock on your door and I'll offer you a big hug and you don't want me to hug you because I smell awful so refer people to the family friends and relatives to the show so I don't have to do that it sounded better in my head and when I when I wrote it anyway guys go to good reason it's Christmas LinkedIn calm for just Christmas, linkedin.com for just Christmas, Christmas one, the Tik Tok and all those crazy places on the internet. As they like to say today, we have an amazing young man on the show. Joining us Kelvin green.

He has over 20 years of it, cybersecurity experience ranging from supporting the Kentucky health benefits exchange as infrastructure and operations lead, being the lead messaging engineer for behavioral health organization, designing a host-based security system architecture for the Navy Public Safety Network, solutions architect for DHS CDM TO2F. I know what that means. No, I don't. Fixing computers for SMBs in Honolulu, Hawaii. To being a game tester for a Tetris release. I'm a constant game tester for Call of Duty. Does that count?

More importantly, he is a mental health, and I pay for it too. He is a mental health advocate who connects with his own struggles throughout life, understands user and entity behavior analytics, and how people and computers think. His people are thinking nowadays, when did that start? His goal is to use his knowledge and all the ups and downs of life, from his time in jail to his time at the Sumo Logic President's Club at the Four Seasons in Maui to help others understand themselves, be more joyful, and more secure. Welcome to the show, Kelvin.

How are you? Thank you, Chris, and I'mvin how are you thank you chris and i'm doing good so thank you for having me thank you for coming we certainly appreciate it so give us your dot coms where do you want people to find out more about you on the interwebs yep i'll give you the show link csa.pro so csa.pro you can join the only fan and what's the name of your company and give us a 30 000 overview of it and what you do there. Yep. It's CyberSec and I. So essentially I am a cybersecurity advisor. Hey, you have cybersecurity and they tell you, Hey, you need to get a firewall. You want to be secure. Firewalls necessarily don't make you secure. As a matter of fact,

do you even know what the firewall does for you or what an EDR or XDR does for you? And I help companies to understand by their own perspective, what it does for you or what an EDR XDR does for you. And I help companies to understand by their own perspective, what it does for them, what they need to get, why they want to get it and how they can use it to achieve their goals. Yeah. I need that in dating. I'm not sure what that all means, but so tell us about how you help people. What sort of clients are you looking for? What is the sort of work you're looking to do and how can you help people? Yep. So our primary focus is healthcare. With everything we do, some work in the public sector. If you are a state, local government, we help you there. We also help SMBs in mid-market. Don't do

much in enterprise, but one day. With that being said, what we do is we basically connect with you. We analyze your current environment. So we say, hey, this is what you have. This is what it does. Tell us what you want to do. We'll help you figure that out. And then we'll help you to understand what you know today and how it can be applied to helping you achieve your goals in the future. Ah, that sounds like a great deal. That really does. So let's see, how did you get into this business? We mentioned a few things in your journey of life and how were you brought up and what got you into the IT space? Yep. I've been in IT or fixing something in my whole life, right?

So that's just, you know, who I am. And how did I get here? Two life experiences. So like I said, hey, I live in Hawaii. So being down there, you meet different people. I live with a Japanese family. And so all their cultural customs were different from what I was used to. And so getting accustomed to that helped me to say, hey, people have a different perspective.

And then I started doing more work for different SMBs and different organizations and different verticals. And I said, hey, how we see things, the same words, the same terms, the same things differently, why they mean something different. Like right now, if I said to you, hey, here's an expense report, it means one thing to you, but it means something different to an accountant. And it means something different to, let's say, the CRO, the chief revenue officer. They all have a different perspective on it. And I started to understand. I say, hey, you know what? We need this.

We need this to protect ourselves because as we're getting all these new threats now, like all these different ransomware and things that are coming out, we're saying, hey, how do we prevent these things? How do they get in? Because human beings are involved in most of this stuff. And I say, I don't think the people are really bad. They don't really have the intent to do it. You don't understand them

and they don't understand the system. But if you connect those dots, then you can protect yourself. Wow. Got a that journey. Protect yourself from all the stuff that's going on. I know that, let's talk about AI. I know AI is causing a lot of craziness that's making a lot of the hacking and different attacks worse. I mean, it's taking it to a new level. What are some of your thoughts on that?

I personally say that human beings, we have a natural inclination to try to make things better for ourselves and other things that end up being the worst things for us, like the atomic bombs or all the nuclear weapons that we still are maintaining that we never shoot off. Good, we don't. With that being said,

AI is one of the things that we've been looking forward to be like, hey, make my life simple, do everything for me, great. You're teaching AI everything about you. And what happens when the bad guy gets it? They're going to use it, right? Why would they not? You're going to go to sleep tonight.

AI is not. And so when somebody has access to AI and they can say, I can attack you with it all day, every day, you should be alarmed. And that's what we're seeing now. I'm alarmed by anybody who wants to attack me. I mean, I had Taco Bell last night and I'm under attack right now no i'm just kidding don't eat there goes our taco bell sponsor i i i'll say chris we're going to keep you protected and we gotta keep you protected and i will tell you that yes people will want to attack you because you are chris raw so that's the reason for them to attack you just because of that yeah hey they're like oh you're successful and I don't really

think I'm successful that's the funny part so what is what are the main things you find most of your clients are struggling with when they come to you at first you know they're like hey we need some help here what's a what's a popular thing that people are struggling with right now yeah Yeah, so I know it's a lot of purchasing of things because of buzzwords or because, hey, they told me I need this. And it's not achieving the goals they want. Meaning they're going, they're like,

oh, you need to get this firewall. It's the best firewall. You need to get this, this, this, this, this. And they're like writing checks and then they're getting them. And they're like, this didn't give me everything I needed. I'm like, well, did you set it up to do that? Did you ask? Was that a part of the goal? No, you just got something and it sounded good. And so I want to help organizations too. I like

to say I'm a neutral party, meaning I don't sell anything. I'm here to help you. My goal is to make sure you save money and you get what you need to do what you need to do. Meaning, hey, if Chris says I want to be able to go on here and I want to be at a podcast, but I want to make sure my information is protected. I gather from everybody. I want to make sure that you're always able to get on here. Your microphone is always working. Your video is always working and you're able to connect with the people every day. That's your mission. And we want to make sure that cybersecurity enables that mission to happen. Yeah. I mean, there's times where we come on and things don't work. Things have been mucked about it.

You know, our WordPress gets attacked relentlessly every day. I mean, we've been around for a long time. I mean, we've been around for 16 years. The YouTube channels have been around for 18 years. There's no perfect answer. They love to attack us. We're a favorite. I get like this report that shows how many hacking attempts we have around the world.

This is crazy, man. Some people need to go find a day job or something. Hey, look. You want people overseas to watch you? And they do. And with that being said, that means you get the bad guys overseas, too. This is crazy, man. I'm really not that interesting, folks.

I don't have all I don't have like millions of dollars Why don't you go shake down Elon Musk or somebody that you know, he can afford to get shaken down I I'm I don't you get like two dollars if you access my bank Which I am but, leave me alone. But yeah, it's crazy. And I think AI is just going to continue to grow and advance and make the attacks on infrastructure, computers, companies, people. I mean, you know, we've had, like I said, you know, we're not that special if you attack the Chris Voss Show website. It's not, I don't know what you're

going to get from it. We keep backups and everything. So you're going to, I mean, what's going to happen? Like nothing. We'll just put it back up. But I mean, there's companies that there's money involved in their websites and money involved in their business things and what they're going to do. And so I think the tax are just going to keep getting worse and worse and worse. And yeah, I will say, Chris, that I give you credit for being one of the greats because you, you, you understood, Hey, I don't care if you tap my website, why are you going to do it anyways?

No point because I'm back at it. I'm prepared. You, you are a model citizen. I learned the hard way. I got hacked a couple of times. I learned the hard way. I got hacked a couple times. I learned the hard way. So I was like, fortunately, it wasn't anything. There was one that we almost didn't recover from.

But yeah, back in the day, we got hacked a few times, usually through WordPress plugins. You don't keep those updated or worse, you update them and throws the whole site into fucking a wreckage. Thankfully, they fixed a lot of that. But yeah, I've taken some arrows. So I try and learn what I can. Let me throw one at you

Chris. Right now if you had to go to the hospital next week. Let's say you had to get a surgery done. And your doctor was gearing up. You know this is life or death matters. Really important to you. And you walk in there and the doctor comes. You get in there. know it's a little robe you're naked on the bed you're ready you're like they're going to do this and it's going to help me so much and the doctor walks

the room and he's looking at you he's like i got bad news are you like am i going to die and he's like no we got a hack so we can't perform the surgery today it ran somewhere, they're trying to save me from cancer or something that's about to kill me and the final, you know, or worse, I'm bleeding out on the table. And we used to own a career company that handled a blood stats for hospitals and blood testing. And and yeah, there was there's times where people bleed on the table and you know, they don't have time for the computers to be shut down you know bingo and and so this is this is this is leverage too and that's why i

focus on okay because this is leverage to the people who are attacking you because not only do i have your data and you don't want to get out but now i got your critical services hostage and so i put this cap if you will on what you can do right now. And your time, especially when you're in health care, is really, really important. I mean, really, really important, right? And, you know, it's something that I really myself feel as a person who, you know, I have to go to the doctor and get things done. I definitely don't want to ever go in there and say, hey, you know what? We lost your information because we got hacked and we can't

help you have a good day have a good day have fun put a yeah i mean that's just a flesh wound just put a band-aid on and rub some sporum on it'll be fine probably i don't know maybe you won't get your surgery back up with that yeah welcome to american health care i think that's what they tell you even if they do have their computers running these days. I don't know. Look, Chris, we're going to have to have a show just on that topic because I got to think, you know. That's a whole other show, folks. What else have we discussed that we want to tease out to people? What sort of services do you offer that they can onboard with, et cetera, et cetera? First, I want to explain the concept, and that is PPP. So I'm not sure if you're familiar with it.

I'm 57. I'm very familiar at night with the PPP. In psychology, there's something called schema theory. And I'm not going to explain all that, but you might want to look that up at some point in time. But PPP is basically how you take your perception. So what you see, what you hear, smell, taste, feel. And you say, hey, this is how I bring information in. And all day, every day since the day you were, hey, this is how I bring information in. And all

day, every day since the day you were born, you were bringing information in with that. And that led to you perceiving things. You know, if you were born and you were at the hospital and say your dad was and he smiled at you, it's going to make you feel good. You're going to say, ooh, warm inside. If you don't, you might not

get the same feeling. But with that being said, you're going to start giving all that information to your life. Every person you talk to, everything is how you perceive things. And you're going to start making perspective on these things. Maybe you're going to say, hey, if it's dark at night and I see a cat walking in front of me, maybe I'm scared. Maybe if a dog is barking at night, I might want to run. And this is all based on experiences in the past. Maybe a dog was big and it chased you at night.

So whenever you hear a dog barking at night, you start wanting to run. Or if you see a mouse, you jump up and run. You don't know. I'm a big guy. I'm six foot four.

But if this was a rat in the ground, I might just run. You don't know. I'm not telling you, but you don't know how I perceive things. Maybe you do now. But with that being said,

you take all those things together and you get to your perspective. So what I want to do is I'm going to, I connect with the businesses to help them to understand how the perspective of the people in the organization help. I give you a great example and I'll use one on myself first. I'll say, so I told you that I was proud of myself for how I celebrated the four seasons doing presence club and it was wonderful. And I remember checking in and it was so lovely. Oh man, it's free. So it's the best, club. And it was wonderful. And I remember checking in so lovely. Oh, man, it's free. So it's the best. Right.

And I like check in is great. But I can tell you the flip side. I once had to check out and check in to jail. And boy, let me tell you, you don't feel as pleasant when you check in. You don't go in and oh, man, I'm so happy to be here. No, it's not a pleasant experience. None of it was pleasant. But when you check out, trust me, you may not feel the best in the world, but for that moment, you're going to feel a little bit of joy just because you know you're going back

outside. And that's a good thing. But what I wanted to show in that is perspective. In one case, check it in. Wonderful at the full season. In jail, no. But checking out the full season, oh, that sucks. Who wants to go home when you're getting free stuff? I mean, they give you free food. They treat you like a king. Oh, yeah.

And you want to check out of jail. Let me tell you. You hear lots of stories. You see TV shows. They tell you jail is wonderful. Let me tell you. I will tell you jail is wonderful let me tell you i will tell you there's nothing good in there is a bunch of dirty people and you don't they're not nice people you don't want to be there don't go there all the children don't go there

sounds like my first 10 marriages um getting out of jail was like basically getting divorced that's free yeah let's call it a joke. I'm not talking about that. I got a wife. That's your problem, isn't it? I'm sure she's lovely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We do a lot of marriage jokes.

I love my wife. She's a wonderful person. She's actually a savage kitty nerd like me, and she works with me. Is she holding a gun right off camera? Is that what's going on? No, I'm just teasing. I tease my married folks. I'm a single guy.

That's kind of the running joke of the show. I will say this. You learn more in life with every experience. So being single has an experience that you learn from, and being married has an experience that you learn from. So both are good. That's all in what you do with it. So I'll say that way.

With that being said, just to lead on to what you were saying, think about this. What if I told you that right now, all of your information is being fed into AI, meaning when you post videos, when you send email out, when you go to the grocery store

and it's learning everything about you, building a profile, a persona, if you will, about you. And that you need to be prepared for somebody to hack you using all the information that you posted on podcasts, on Facebook, on LinkedIn, the food you bought off the grocery store. Everything you did will be a part of a persona they can use against you or use to address others as you. I don't want them to find out about that midgets and Shetland Pony OnlyFans channel I always watch. Why Shetland Pony? I don't know. They're cute. It just seems like the perfect joke. I don't know why I have to used that joke for 20 years. I will say things like that.

I, you know, I will say to the youth, be careful what you put on those sites. Stop sharing those dick pics. It's funny how people just don't realize how much, you know, their mobile imprint is being broadcast to so many places I mean well maybe you want to talk about that a little bit about how people really need to realize with their phones and you know some of the input they're putting into websites their their privacy is really it's kind of illusion so I'll give you a scary one on Alan I went so a long time ago back in 2000 i guess it was i went to hawaii went to mali two out here too long two on one i went to mali and i was with my girlfriend and molly at the time and we went over to your wife sorry she wasn't my wife yet. And we went over to another young lady's house who I, so I had

never met this young lady in person, but I did talk to her online. So I didn't know her back in 2000. And I had a picture online. She had actually printed my picture and put it on her wall. So when I went to her house to visit her, remember, I never met her before in my life. I saw a picture of myself on the wall. Was this above her bed or was this at the refrigerator? Was this in her bank account was this at the refrigerator or was it her bank book? Maybe checking a book, you know, you know, so you ever heard of paralysis in the moment? Yeah, you know you kind of go But really yeah, I will say that that that would mean that I put out a picture that I couldn't control where it went

Yeah, I had no idea was Was it on her vision board then? I hope not. Look, Chris, my goal is to stay safe. Don't let me go hide in the corner, Chris. Okay, I'm sorry. We're not here to wreck marriages on the show. No, I mean, I'm pretty sure that she, for some reason, felt that I was worth joining her collection of pictures on her wall wait she had a collection now how many other guys were up on this wall they were it wasn't just me but i will say

that in the midst of it there were some you know famous guys so i was like yay i got on the wall to a part of me part of me said that part of me probably was scared as hell and i wanted to get the hell out of there and go high in the corner because I was scared. I'd be worried. I saw that movie, The Jerk, where he, you know, randomly picks the names out of the phone book and then goes and shoots them. You know, that might have been her target. I will say that I've met young ladies so again, nothing bad. But I met young ladies who had instances where they posted content or email out content to somebody or texted it to them.

And then somebody else would post it. And they would find out later on that a whole bunch of people saw their private moments that they were sharing. And they were unaware that that was happening. Yeah, that's what happens with the internet. That happened to one of my gal pal during COVID. We were all in this big clubhouse app that would people talk to each other you know everyone was kind of hanging out because it was the thing to do when you didn't have anything to do and so one of my gal pals she's a beautiful looking woman she she is almost a spinning image of oh who's that famous singer who who d'd and died recently she kind of that great

blues voice, but would something? Anyway, but she, she got into some really bad, I think heroin and drugs and stuff, but it wasn't Whitney Houston. It was somebody really recent. So anyway, she spinning image of her just beautiful woman, but she's married and she has children and she's middle-aged. And one of the guys, it's kind of started to become a real orbiter around her and and she did a video call with him one time and found that as she was talking to him she could see in the background that her pictures he'd created a collage of her pictures on his what's the what is the background of your computer there hey you know the the stuff and she was like horrified

because she realized he was like stalking her basically you know another example where you can't control your pictures sometimes yeah i mean it is we we we give out all this information and that's you know a big thing with the ai that people are giving up we're answering questions to ai solutions we're training them we're giving all that information. We're telling them our behavior. And to tie it in, that's actually what user and entity behavior analysis is about, where it's taking the profile of a person. Hey, let's take Sarah. And Sarah is a, let's say, an accountant. Good accountant.

She does her job, and she's pretty consistent. Whenever she goes on break, she does whatever she says she does. So you can trust it reliably. So if, say, her system logged in and said she was in France, you'd be like, red flag, red flag, because she said she was sick and she's at home.

But take another employee. Let's say Bob. Bob's a sales guy. He's not a sales guy. It's always Bob. And Bob, when he goes off on vacation or on break or say he's off, he does different things from whatever he said.. And Bob, when he goes off on vacation or on break, he'll say he's off. He does different things from whatever he said. He might say, I'm sick and I'll be home. But Bob, he tends to travel. Let's say

expect Bob to travel. Bob kind of logs in on a Friday from Florida. He's like, hey, Bob lives in Arkansas. What is he doing in Florida? Bob was rolling. And Bob said, hey, he didn't know he was over there just doing what he was doing.

But when you called him, he was like, oh, yeah, we're good. We're good to keep things a secret that he doesn't want to tell you that he's doing something he shouldn't be doing. Oh. Well, guess what?

Bob's account got compromised. And the only way you could have known that is if you knew how Bob behaved and you entered into that system. So if you would have had it into the system so if you would have had it into the system that bob whenever he is gone that you can't trust that he's reliably going to do what he says he's going to do you would know immediately soon you saw something suspicious to say hey let me close down this account and contact bob and make him validate

this activity spot open it back up but you can can only know that if you told that to the system. And if you record that information in the system, you'd have it. And so that's what user-integrated analytics does. It's taking all the behavior above and of Sue and everybody else in the company and recording and saying, hey, now we understand what they do. So with AI tip to attack and find that loophole, that weakness, you can block it. Love it, man. Love it.

That's what we need to do is have more of that. What else have we teased out? What sort of, do companies need to be a certain size to work with you? They've been in a certain income range or net worth, you know, is there any requirements you have that way? Yep. So ideally you have a hundred employees or higher. I do go down as low as 50, but a hundred employees or higher. I do go down as low as 50,

but a hundred employees or higher. I generally stay in between a hundred to 1,000 range. Again, I will get to enterprise one day, but right now I stay into the ones it's 1,000 range. Essentially, if you are in that range and you do not know what you need to do to be secure, what I mean by that, it doesn't matter where you are in the journey. I meet you where you are and get you to where you want to be. And even if you don't know where it is, I help you figure out where you want to be. And so essentially that is the market. So I want you to come to me. Again, this is, I don't cost anything. My goal is to connect you with the services that you need and help you to save money. Meaning if I can get you more bang for your buck, even if it was the same number,

but you get more, I did my job. Nice. Nice. And is there an amount, is there amount of budget or spend that they need to have? Maybe I know that can vary. You spend what you want to spend. This is what I will tell people. If you get hacked and you let you say you got hacked and you spend money and you spend money on ransomware for sure usually you may not get your shit back either And a lot of issues time down equals money. So we got I help others to do is I say hey look You don't want to be down. You don't want to have the noise out there the bad press You don't want to take all the risk. You might want to spend the money up front So how can you make the determination? Look at the market. Most hacks, things for mid-market organizations,

especially healthcare, you spend it in the millions, a couple million per hack. You should be ready to spend a couple million to protect yourself from spending a couple million on nothing. Because when you get hacked, you just give the money away and then you still spend the money to be secure anyway, so Come out or come before your choice You bring up two important points number one. It's not a matter of if you're gonna get hacked anymore It's a matter of it's a matter of when being go everybody every I get hacked Everybody is like there's nothing you can you know, I like I hear people always go,

oh my, they got my social security. Like they've been hacked on social security number for 10 years and you just didn't know because they didn't want to do anything with you. But believe you me, it's been out there and that's documented. So I tell people what you're really worried about when it comes to hacking is keeping what you have now, private's your goal so i consider it a probably like you you don't want to tell people

you got you got secrets you got private things you got a private life whether it was for your organization or for yourself you want to keep those things secret right cyber security is what helps you do you're putting everything on your computer you're using it for every transaction in your life so you might want to make sure you're secure there. Same way you would do anything else. Think about it as you're lock safe. You're lock safe. You definitely want to have that.

The other thing you kind of alluded to too is the other aspect of, oh crap, I think I brain farted on what the second point was. But the first point, let me see if I can jigger it here. The first point was it's not a matter me see if i can jigger here the first point was it's not a matter of when you get hacked and how you get hacked oh i remember now the you you referred to you've inferred this a couple times the loss of reputation uh of when you get hacked on your client base in the public seeing oh you were a dumb company that didn't put up the barriers to protect my data. And that's embarrassing as well, right? Yeah. I will say this. Think about this one. If right now somebody told you, hey,

we got hacked and we lost everybody's money. It was a bank. I said, we got hacked, we lost everybody's money. Would you bank with that bank? No, no, hold on. No. So the value of keeping things safe is right there because the damage that it does to your reputation. Now, hey, Kelly, you said we can get hacked. Let me tell you, you can also use getting hacked as a great story. Let's say you do get hacked, but you have resiliency. You have cybersecurity tools in place. So you can say we can proactively block it.

We stop the most damaging damaging process we call it early we have a fast path to recover even if it happened inevitable at least you got back up quick and that'll going to show people they're going to say hey you're doing your best but if you say oh we didn't know anything nobody had eyes on it because know, we had these tools and we got Bob and, you know, Bob, he was supposed to be watching and he didn't. And oops. It's always Bob. You know, it's reputation damage is a big thing, you know, to any organization. And again, definitely health care, because I'm going to explicitly say this.

You do not want your doctor to come to you and say i lost your private health information yeah that's always bad and because you know somebody else has it they probably shouldn't have it you know plus i don't want people finding about that midgets only fans channel i'm actually running it i'm actually on the show chris i'm gonna have to have a conversation about you and your you know i've always used that midget and shit like pony porn joke for 20 years. Now I can just add OnlyFans to it. OnlyFans, the joke that keeps paying. The joke reference that keeps paying on all the callback jokes.

So, Kelvin, this has been very insightful. Give people a final pitch out how they can onboard with you, how they can reach out to you, find out their fit, and get to know more about you, et cetera, et cetera. Yep. So the best thing you can do is go to my website at csai.pro. You can add me on LinkedIn, Kelvin Green on there. You'll get my contact information and Chris is okay with it. You can send out my contact information, but basically come there again, plan to be wherever you are.

Do not feel like you have to know all the cybersecurity terms or come and talk to me about this or that. I'm going to make it as simple. You know, I'll give you an example right now as to how simple I can make it for you. Chris, are you familiar with threat intel? Threat intel? Yep. I know. Okay. Let me give you a quick explanation. You're familiar with Jack and Jill, the story of Jack and Jill? Oh yeah, went up the hill.

All right. Let's say my man, Jack, he's going up the hill. He's, I'm going to get some water. He got his pad. I'm going to get this water. It's a good day for Jack. Jack walks up and he trips. Big rock.

When Jack trips, falls back down. Jack got shot. Nothing you can do, right? Jack is hit, Jack is down. Jack. But what if Jack told Jill and Jill told everybody else, hey, it's a rock there. Be careful when you go up that hill because when you get to 70% of the way

up that hill, there's a rock. How many people who got the information that go up that hill are going to be safe and go get their water because Jack got hit sorry jack it happens but your loss is our game and so sharing that information now that's 30 seconds you know about that threat you know to watch out for that rock yeah nobody's going yeah i always step over jack as i go up the hill sorry buddy he's taking one of the team i'm sure somebody will come back for the body are you sure that jack just didn't go up the hill with Jill and then Jill married him and then divorced him for having money and he died? I will say if Jack lived that hill with Jill, there is a large chance that Jill was the reason that he tripped.

But I didn't want to say that. Maybe Jill tripped him, eh? She had a life insurance policy on Jack. We do a lot of comedy on the show. I'm just going to put a disclaimer. Why Chris said that? Not me. So yeah,

it's, we don't want to cause any divorce. Yeah. This Jack and Jill bit is reminding me of a comedian, Andrew Dice Clay. So leave those jokes off the show. No, Jack and Jill went up the hill.

Oh, butter me. Anyway, thank you, Kelvin, for coming on the show. Give us your dot coms one last time as we go out. Yep, that's CSAI.pro. Again, CSAI.pro. And there'll be a link for it on the Chris Voss show. You can find it there if you want. Thanks to my eyes for tuning in.

Thanks to Kelvin for coming on the show. It's been a fun show. We always love good energy and funny shows. People learn more with entertainment. We call it info entertainment. Infotainment is what we call it. Anyway, guys, thanks for tuning in. Go to Goodreads.com, Fortress, Chris Voss, LinkedIn.com, Fortress, Chris Voss, Chris Voss 1, the TikTok, any and damn it, all the other places in the world that are Chris Voss.

At least the original one. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time. That should have a salt count.