The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Darlene McDonald on Black Lives Matter & Rep. John Lewis’ Life

Episode Date: July 21, 2020

Darlene McDonald on Black Lives Matter & Rep. John Lewis' Life Darlenemcdonald.com

you're listening to the chris voss show podcast we interview the smartest people in the room the ceos authors thought leaders visionaries and motivators to fill up your brain and make you better looking here's your host chris voss hi folks It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com, thechrisvossshow.com. Hey, we're coming to you with another podcast. We certainly appreciate you guys tuning in. And we've been talking a lot with some really great leaders, brilliant minds, some of the smartest people on the planet, as the intro says. And we've been having some great discussions.

We have some incredible authors that are coming up, a lot of different book authors and PhDs, people of brilliant minded stuff that, you know, if you're the smartest person in the room where you think you are, you're probably not. So my beauty is, is I'm not the smartest person in the room and I get to learn from all these brilliant people come on the podcast. So I hope you indulge in it as well be sure to share the podcast with the cvpn.com your friends and if you want to see the video version of this uh production you can see it at youtube.com for just chris voss today we have a second appearance by a wonderful guest Darlene McDonald she's been on the show before so if you get a chance, check out her episode before this,

and of course, listen to this one as well. Let's get a rundown on Darlene McDonald. She is a senior product support engineer at Oracle. She's an author, a social activist, and keyboard warrior. She has a BS degree in business information technology management from Western Governors University. Darlene also maintains and runs the Black Library, an online repository dedicated to literature written by African American and Black writers. Since 2017, Darlene has served on the African American Friends Service Committee Governance Corporation. That's a mouthful right there, and it's very important.

And is also on the Friends Relations Committee. Darlene is the chair of the Utah Black Roundtable. She currently sits on the executive committee for the Utah Democratic Party and is second vice chair of the Utah Democratic Black Caucus, helping turn Utah blue, as my plug. And she serves as the outreach director for the Women's Democratic Club, second vice chair of the Utah Women's Color Council, and serves on the board of the CD4 Coalition.

Additionally, Darlene is working with the Afro-American Genealogical Historical Society for the Utah Memorial in collaboration with the National Memorial for Peace in Montgomery, Alabama, to place memorials for the victims of lynchings in Utah. And somehow, with all of that stuff, she's still maintained to find some time to squeeze us in. Welcome to the show. How are you, Darlene? I'm good. Thank you for having me. Awesome sauce. So give us some dot coms so people can look you up on the interwebs.

Yes, go to jollymcdonald.com. Read my blog. I write a lot. I have several in the works right now. I probably will have one out by the end of the day as well. You can also very soon be able to go to the library.black which is the black library

and that's a whole another story about how that came about. Much longer you're going to have to have another show about that one. Let's do it. And you can also, coming soon you will be able to go to, and you can go there now, but bookmark it, is Utah Black Voters Matter. organizations in Utah who will be putting, we have a get out the vote effort to,

to basically get African American and black voters to vote in this upcoming election, because it is very important. Awesome. Awesome. Look in the website. This looks really cool. And this is really important. We turn out the vote.

They're going to do everything to suppress the vote. Donald Trump's going to try and discourage as many people as he did in 2016. We're going to have voter suppression, all the games they play in the South, of course. And it's really important that we have a turnout that's so uncontestable where there's no way Donald Trump can go spend, you know, the next three years in the Supreme court arguing that I didn't win. It was close. They cheated, you know? I mean, he was just on with Fox news and I forget the interviewee or interviewer. But you know, he was asking him again,

are you going to contest the results of the election? He's like, well, I'll let you know. So it's really important everyone registers to vote. If you're out protesting and supporting this cause, you must register to vote. You must make it count. If you're not at the table, if you're not sitting at the table, you're on the menu. But thanks for coming on, Darlene. We love having you on again. We had a great discussion last time. So we want to talk today, kind of a memorial or a remembrance of a couple of different black leaders. Yes. Hopefully you can still hear me. Okay.

Cause you cut out there a little bit. Are we still on? Okay. Excellent. Yes. Are we still on? Okay, excellent Yes, so we just recently lost C.T. Vivian And a few hours later We lost the great representative And civil rights icon John Lewis

Yeah It's been The last couple The last 24 hours it's been really, it's been the last couple, the last 24 hours, it's been tough. I'm reminiscing, not reminiscing, but just thinking about their lives and what, and their contribution to America, especially to civil rights and the right to vote for African-Americans. And in the introduction, and you asked me about the dot coms, the UtahBlackVotersMatter.org is about getting out the black vote. And that is so significant right now, especially with the work. When you think about the passing of John Lewis, that was his lifelong work. And he was beaten to get, just to register, just to register Black people in America to vote. And you think about the death of Medgar Evers, who was shot dead in his front yard for registering Black people

to vote. So it is extremely important that we do not forget their legacy, but also the importance of voting. And you mentioned the rallies and the marches, right? So that's just it. And that's one of the things that I talk about. And I said, almost every time I give a press conference, when the rally is over, when we're done marching,

when we go home, we have got to get out and vote because these two things, they're not independent of each other. When you're done protesting, you have to go vote. It's a two-part process, voting and protesting. And you can't have one without the other. And you have the protest without the policy, then the protest doesn't matter. And if you have the policy without the protesting, then who exactly are you creating the policies for? Are you actually speaking to the constituents that actually want change? So if

you're not listening to the protesters, then the policy doesn't matter. So it has to be a two-part process. And you have a picture you posted on Facebook of John Lewis meeting John Lewis. Did you get to spend some time with him that day, or was it a meet and greet? It was a meet and greet. I saw him. I was attending the Congressional Black Caucus annual legislative session. And if you get an opportunity to go, go. We were going to go this year, but you know, this thing called COVID

happened. So that didn't happen. It is a phenomenal experience for just workshop after workshop after workshop, learning so much legislatively, meeting legislators, meeting members of the Black Caucus, but also meeting members of Congress and having that face-to-face with them. Yeah, if you have an opportunity to go, I highly recommend going, but you're going to have to wait at least until 2021. Hopefully not 2022. Hopefully we can get a handle on this and Joe Biden and his team can get in there and fix this. Science.

Science. Oh, my God. Today Donald Trump was calling Fauci, what did he say? He said he was a, you know, he just excited people way too much, basically was the word. But, no, people need to register and vote. This is so important. And I think more so, like you say, with John Lewis, you know, he gave his blood, sweat, and tears to give people a right to vote and the importance of it. I mean, it takes so much for granted in this country and i hope everyone's learned that you got to show up this time man

this is this is a big deal yeah and if you if you i mean at least show up for him for what he went through what he did um i i feel for a lot of my african-american friends because they've lost a lot of giants this year. Well, in the last year, Elijah Cummings, John Lewis, this Reverend gentleman that I hopefully will familiarize myself with. And I've got to watch some more videos and understand his impact on the community. But, you know, you guys have lost a lot of really core leaders. John Lewis was one of the, I think what they called the big six, who walked with Martin Luther King, who spoke at the Martin Luther King Memorial,

or Martin Luther King, I Have a Dream speech. Just an amazing man. And one of the things I talked about this yesterday with Dr. Lawrence Chatters, who was on, but I talked about how I watched a lot of his videos. And it always amazed me always amazes me because I would, I look at what people's experiences, what they go through and I go, can I become that gentle and forgiving of a person? Probably not because I'm not that great of a person. Um, but I would watch him talk about how forgiving he was, how, how calm he was, how, how giving

he was to people of his time. He, he worked a lot of children. In fact, they, I think I just saw something recently where he dressed up at Comic-Con with, uh, in, in the outfit that he had when he crossed the, uh, Bettis, uh, the, the Birmingham bridge. Um, and, um, and then he went to Comic-Con, and he had a little kind of protest march. He wasn't protesting.

He had a little march around Comic-Con. And I thought that was really cool. And they said one of the aspects of him was he was always willing to talk to children and help, you know, lead children, inspire them, and get them another history, et cetera, et cetera. I want to correct just one thing that you said.

It's a loss for America. Not just for African Americans and black folks. It's a loss for America. Because when you have people like C.T. Vivian, John Lewis, Elijah Cummins, they're pushing America to fulfill its promise. And think about the preamble of the United States. And one of the things that, this is hard for me right now because one of my heroes, or should I say she rose, the late Barbara Jordan, and her speech went before the Judiciary Committee

at the impeachment trial for Richard Nissen. And I've read that speech a thousand times, a thousand times. But right after the George Floyd murder and the Black Lives Matter protests, that speech was pivotal for that moment, but it also applies to today. When you look at that speech and you listen, when you listen to it and you say, did they forget about us when they wrote the preamble to the constitution? And I went on two podcasts and WebEx and I read that speech and just had to really fight back the tears because it is so pivotal in this moment of fulfilling the promise of America. We're the people of the United States in order to form the more perfect union. That is what the John Lewis and the Medgar Evers and the C.T. Vivian were fighting for and have been fighting for. And one of the things about the 1619 Project that many of us have heard about and have read that it was the American democracy hasn't really been the American democracy until Black people started pushing it to become

the American democracy. Because you have to think the Constitution was written without the African American in mind. I mean, our electoral system was written, was developed as a compromise for the southern states, right? For slavery, because Black people were not considered human, so they were not considered part of the population. But yet, when you have a census, you have to consider the census and the census count each person. So you end up having something that was out of balance there. You couldn't have more representation or less representation for the people if you didn't count them as the people. So it was a compromise with the southern states.

So, yeah, we do need to get rid of the electoral college, but that's another conversation. Yeah, I think you or somewhere we've had a discussion as to how racist that whole setup was with the electoral college. Yes, it's left over from slavery. And so it needs to go. One person, one vote is not really representative of the electoral college, really. One person, one vote is what we do in the states.

I mean, every single other election is one person, one vote. And you had Chris Peterson on your show and one person, one vote is going to elect the governor of this state. That should also apply to the presidency. And I understand that there's a lot of people

in the smaller states want to push back against that. But you know, the only way we're really going to have a representative that's going to really work for their constituents in the best interest of their constituents is to know that every single vote matters. Every single one. So if you have a representative that is mostly in the pocket of big corporations, they're not looking out for your best interests. They're looking out for their own best interests. So it is actually within the best interest of even the smaller states to say, you know, we really need to look at this electoral college so that we can have representative that's actually looking out for us and not just themselves. And, and that was, uh, that was Barbara Jordan. The,

she was a Texas Congresswoman. I got, I just pulled this up on the phone while you were talking and I'm going to have to go watch, uh, I've got her us, uh, house, judiciary committee impeachment hearings. I'm going to have to go listen to that speech got her u.s uh house judiciary committee impeachment hearings i'm gonna have to go listen to that speech because i love great speeches um but no i i i just think it's tough for um african-american people to see these heroes go down because you know we have this incredible racist in the white house and it's it's it's it's it's a challenge because it's it's like the death of a dream until we can recover this dream with Joe Biden and take it away from these white nationalists and this crazy racist idiot that we have.

And to me, it would be incredibly, it's already discouraging for me already to see the stuff he does, but from an aspect of losing leaders. But yeah, you're right. I mean, America has lost some great people, people that are way better than that jerk in the White House. They can take poops bigger than him. We've lost a generation of civil rights activists that moved this country forward at a time that needed to move that need, where they needed to move that needle.

And, but they passed the torch on to us and we have to take it. And that's really how I felt when I met with the John Lewis and the Elijah Cummings and even the John Conyers from Minnesota, no, Michigan, I'm sorry, Michigan, because he was actually the original writer of the Medicare for All bill. And he wrote that bill in 2003, I believe, when he presented it to Congress in 2003.

So they've been pushing us for a better America for quite some time. But when you meet, when I met them and when you meet many of them, you realize that they've gotten older, But they were still alive. So even with that, you're like, oh my goodness, this is not my grandparents' lifetime. This is my lifetime. John Lewis just died. He was beaten to a pulp in 1963.

Yeah, 63, I think. Yeah, and no, no, Bloody Sunday was 65. And because Lyndon Johnson passed, that propelled Lyndon Johnson to pass the Voting Rights Act of 1965. And John Lewis was there.

That's three years before I was born. That, I mean, and I was able to shake John Lewis's hand. You know, that's, that's our lifetime. Yeah. That's our lifetime. And one of the things I listened to when listening to some old John Lewis stuff, they were playing games in the South with, you know, once Johnson gave them the voting rights, they're playing games on with African-American people to get them registered to vote. So they go in to register and they would do all sorts of games. Like one game was they'd be like, they'd show them a jar of jelly beans and say well you know there's an aptitude test or something you know you have to pass so you have

to guess how many you know jelly beans are in a jar which you know most people couldn't do um there was a bunch of other stupid idiot stuff they pulled you know with their little games and that was going on the south that was one of the things i my understanding was he was marching and railing against um and he was arrested for uh using a whites only bathroom when they were marching. Cause you know, there's, there's so many people and, and that, that whole thing was out of control too. Um, I really, I'm really just so done with Donald Trump and I'm just so, I mean, I knew this, we had a lot of closet racists. We had a lot of people that had racist issues in this country. But to see that there are people still supporting this guy after all this time.

Oh my God. It just melts my brain. 49% of white Americans support Donald Trump. 49%. 42% support Joe Biden. 49% support Donald Trump. Now, you have to think about this too, because Democrats haven't received, they haven't won the white vote, the overall white vote since 1968. Holy crap. So, yeah.

Yeah. So what happened in 1968? That was, I mean, when you had Lyndon Johnson pass the Civil Rights Act in 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965. So, I take that back. Yeah, yeah. They lost the white vote in 1968. They won in 1964. Lyndon Johnson was the last Democratic president to 1964, it was done. So white America, they have to ask themselves some questions, some serious, serious questions.

The state of Utah, Lyndon Johnson was the last Democrat, the state of Utah, Democratic president, the state of Utah voted for. Utah, you need to ask yourself some serious questions. What's going on there? Democrats are not evil. I'm not an evil person. I love my family. I go to church. My church is actually the Quaker Meeting House. We have many of the same values that you espouse and say that you believe in those are our values love thy neighbor that's our value you know caring for the elderly caring for the sick and the infirm those are our values not leaving people stranded and coming to the neighbor your the help the aid of your

neighbor those are our values if you claim to be a Christian, those are our values. Not want people to die on the streets because of lack of health care. Those are our values. So what part of that is evil? It isn't. Yeah. I mean, Utah has some definite histories. And I believe, too, what you're also referring to is nixon came in with the rule of law sort of thing and and he started the war on minorities with the drug the drug war which you know berlichman i believe came out and said yeah we we started the whole drug war because we want to target uh people who are protesting which were, and we put them down. Then the rearing of the head again. And Eddie Glaude Jr. wrote about this and covered it in the arc of his book.

He drew the lines between Nixon and Reagan, white churches and white church power, which is really synonymous with white power, and then into Trump. And it's like, I mean, Trump even used that Nixon line the other day of the secret or the quiet society or whatever that will still show up for him and vote, and I forget what the term is. But he's using all the old tropes from Nixon. And, yeah, it's been an interesting journey reading James Baldwin and stuff. And I don't, I don't know what Utah is going to do. Like I came here from California and, you know, we had everybody in California and you

really didn't think about a race in California, at least where I grew up. Um, and when I came to Utah, I was like, where's everyone else? Like, there's just a lot of white people here. I remember six months it took me to run into a Hispanic gentleman. I went up to him. I'm like, hey, cool. How's it going? You know, first place we went, we went to a Mexican restaurant to eat. And I go, hey, can I get some hot sauce? And they brought me ketchup. And I go, this is hot. This is ketchup. This is not hot sauce, you stupid white people. And they're like, dude, that's a hot sauce. But that was 40 years dude, that's a hootsies.

But that was 40 years ago. It's changed a little bit. I think they know what hot sauce is. But, you know, one of the problems Utah has had, and part of it is because it's religious depth, is its religion. And its religion was incredibly racist. I'd argue it still is, but I'll keep that in my opinion, so I don't throw you under that bus. I mean, you look at, I don't know if you've ever studied the history of Brigham Young and the Book of Mormon and all the racist stuff that's in it. But I think that...

I've studied it now. My husband was raised LDS and our children are LDS. Well, my stepchildren, my children, I had it through our marriage. They're great. I love them to death. They are LDS. I learned from them, but I personally have not studied. Most Mormons have no idea because it's been PR cleanse,

but if you start Googling and searching, you'll find some just vile stuff that's just awful. But I think one of the biggest problems in Utah, and I guess the whole point I'm trying to make here, is that they, I mean, they're 90% white, 89% white. And they just don't have enough cultural appropriate cultural um exposure here to different people i guess and they they really walk that i'm whitey lying everything's fine i guess that's my opinion um my my immediate circle is quite diverse. You can find it if you want to. It's there if you want it.

If you look around you and everyone that is in your ward, that attends your ward, looks like you, you might have a problem. And you have to ask those questions, why? I mean, there is a such thing as white flight. I mean, the whites left the city, went to the suburbs to get away from the integration and the blacks moving in and the Hispanics moving in. I mean, that's my choice. So if they want to have a more integrated society, they can. They can. But it has to be a conscious decision.

The same way it was moving to the suburbs away from the city, it could be a conscious decision to make sure you move into neighborhoods that are more diverse. But it has to be a conscious decision. Yeah. And me and Dr. Chowder's actually talked about this yesterday, about how many friends we have that we keep and the influence they have on us, the exposure. I love having all sorts of different friends from all different cultures and backgrounds. But I think the only ones I can't stand are trumpers so they have to get cut loose um and anti-masters and anti-vaxxers now too and and

then conspiracy nut balls i can't we can't i i like keeping an open mind but there's you know once we go crazy there's the uh you know i got enough crazy in this head. And so you've seen my Facebook post, darling. So, you know, you're right. People need to do more. They need to read more. They need to understand more. They need to listen. They need to talk to people with their cultures.

They need to talk to people from the LGBTQ community too. When I left Utah, it had a huge suicide problem for people that were from the LGBTQ culture. And so there's a lot there, man, that we need to start learning about, fixing. We can't fix it, so we start learning and listening. That's true. And you know, this is going to have to be a year Where people are going to have to step out of their comfort zone

A little bit And when I say Donald Trump is a racist End of the story He's a racist We don't need to ask that question anymore I don't need to hear another reporter Ask well do you think

The president is racist? Don't ask that question. The president is a racist. The question that needs to be asked to every single politician or politician wannabe, if they're running for office and if they support Donald Trump, why are you comfortable with the races in the White House? Why are you comfortable with racism racism in the White House? Why are you comfortable with racism? That's the question. Don't ask, do you think Donald Trump is a racist? Don't ask that question.

Why are you comfortable with it? And the economy cannot be the answer. Don't accept that as the answer. It's not because he has done absolutely nothing for the economy. Don't even talk about, oh, he's done more for unemployment for Black people. No, he has not. And if it was up to Donald Trump, a racist who has done absolutely nothing for African Americans unless somehow you're praising him and then he'll bring you on like Cuban Zirconia and

Polyester are the two sisters I call them. Oh, those two gals? Yes, Polyester and Cuban Zirconia. The Diamond Sisters? Yeah, the Diamond Sisters. sisters yeah they're horrible they're horrible they're absolutely horrible um yeah unless you're them then he has no use for you he really doesn't and let's just be honest about that why are you comfortable with the racist? And if this country wants to fulfill its promise to its people, it has to have those serious conversations with itself.

And it's that we have to move towards change. And so that we can be the better America that we have always aspired to be. That is what we are charged with. That's the moment that we are in right now. That's it. And there are people who are fighting tooth and nail to make sure that we don't move forward and disband racism and white supremacy in this country who are holding on to it. And those are the people who are holding on to Donald Trump. And let's just face it. People keep saying, oh, all of Donald Trump supporters aren't racist. All of Donald Trump supporters are comfortable with racism. That's it. You are comfortable with the racism. You're comfortable with racism if you are comfortable with Donald Trump. We are no longer asking the question, is Donald Trump a racist?

No longer. The KKK just, for the second time, endorsed him for president. I mean, if that is not your sign, then I don't know what is. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. And this, you know, people evolve. I understand people have some issues, quote unquote, with Joe Biden, We trust Joe Biden. You do not be the vice president of the first African-American president in this country for eight years and somebody call you a racist. Seriously, give me a freaking break. I mean, you want to talk about something that really gets my blood boiling.

That's one of those things that really gets me going. I'm like, okay, so what are you saying to us? If you're going to sit here and say, well, I've had people who want to explain Joe Biden to me. Well, let me talk about, let me tell you that Joe Biden, I'm like, no, don't even. I cut them off.

The racist explaining? Is that what that is? Like mansplaining? It's racist explaining? Yeah, so like, let me explain racism to you, black woman. I'm like, okay, here we go. Then I have to call my dad, who was an Alabama boy in the 1950s and 60s. So don't even try to have that conversation with me. I support Joe Biden 100%.

I support what he's going to do as president. I may or may not agree with everything that he does, but I trust him. And I trust that he would do an amazing job as president of the United States. I am anxiously awaiting who he's going to pick for his VP. I have my fingers crossed for a couple young ladies. Who's your number one pick? I was going to ask you that. By a hair, literally by a hair, it's Susan Rice. she's my number one pick and she's i have always been

in the kamala harris camp always been in the kamala harris camp for some reason i did not think about susan rice i i don't know why but i didn't and what made me think about her was all of a sudden i saw all these Republican attacks on her on social media. I went, wait a minute, there's got to be a reason for this. I'm like, oh, they must think she's on Joe Biden's short list. I'm like, yeah. That makes sense. She is sharp. She is also one of the women, one of the people,

who could really hit the ground running on day one. On day one. And I think that's why the Republicans are threatened by if she is chosen as VP. She's sharp. She's sharp. She's knowledgeable. She knows all the foreign actors. She was ambassador to the

UN as well as Obama's National Security Advisor. The lady knows her stuff. Yeah. I'm kind of edged towards Kamala Harris, but Kamala Harris as Attorney General, oh boy because somebody somebody's got a lot of cleanup to do at the eternal general spot after this like i want to see william barr

in prison i want to see trump in prison i know you're not supposed to we're not supposed to you know political enemies these people have done real crimes and we're going to find out we're going to find a whole lot more once we get him out of office. And then I would like on day one for Joe Biden to name the KKK as a terrorist organization and any white nationalist organizations as terrorist organizations. The Boogaloo Boys, whatever they're called. I think the Proud Boys are already on the terrorist list with the FBI at least. But that needs to end. are already on the terrorist list with the FBI at least. But that needs to end. We need to put

a hammer down on white nationalism and KKK and just crush whatever the heck's going on with those guys and any other groups that are on the Southern Poverty the SPD Southern Poverty Law Center. Any other hate groups on though, man? You need to go on the terrorist list. uh, the SPD, uh, Southern poverty law center.

Anybody, any other hate groups on though, man, you need to go on the terrorist list. Cause you know, I I'm honestly, as a white guy, I'm more scared of other white guy terrorists who look like me,

who've got some sort of right wing agenda and go shoot up a place. Then I am of someone from Iraq or Afghanistan getting over here on ISIS. I'm really like when I go to malls, I'm just looking at, okay, that and incels, too. Like, I'm looking for the young guy who has gotten laid in all his life or something. I don't know. You got to watch for those guys, too, now.

Hey. But, no, it's a sad time for America. These guys are epic leaders. They did incredible change. John Lewis still has an incredible bill that everyone voted for in the House that's sitting on McConnell's desk. And I've heard a lot of people talking about how one of the first bills Joe Biden will get to sign will be that bill, the Voting Rights Bill of some type.

I haven't read it. Yeah, the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act, which is a tremendous insult to the work of John Lewis, to the work of many African-American activists of the 50s and the 60s, and even to many of the African-American people that are voting rights activists right now. Ruth Bader Ginsburg, I mean, she said the perfect thing. You don't throw away the umbrella just because it's not raining anymore. What the Supreme Court has done, and even what state governors such as Brian Kemp in Georgia, what they are doing and what they have done, really, when you study history and you study what the founders actually believe voting to be and who should vote, we are still pushing America to fulfill its promise. And the founders didn't necessarily believe everyone should vote. If you read the Federalist Papers, I mean, they had some

spirited debates about this because they didn't feel that the average person should care about politics. And they thought, yeah, and they thought voting should be left up to property owners. But who were the property owners? White men. Not only just white men, very affluent white men. So not even every white man. So even the poor and the middle class white men really need to pay attention to what's going on here. Because when they attack voting rights, they're only looking out for a very few 1% really of the population. It is not geared towards everyone. So when you see a lot of these far right wingers, and I have this argument on social media all the time with many of them

who are like, yay, yay, yay, the Supreme Court gutting a whole bunch of civil rights for people who don't look like them. I'm like, you know, you really need to be careful about this because you were not included in the original constitution. You kind of had in the thought process behind voting rights. You were not part of that. Women, oh my gosh, especially women, even white women, like you were not part of that. If you want to say you are originalist, you were an amendment that came later. Good point. You were not part of the original thought. You could not own property.

You couldn't vote. I mean, it was, I believe the very last president to own slave was Ulysses Grant and Ulysses, Ulysses Grant, as well as Thomas Jefferson inherited slaves from their wives' families because their wives couldn't own property and slaves were property. So especially Thomas Jefferson, that's how Sally Hemings came into the Jefferson family. And I'm getting,

I'm going into a whole bunch of history here, but that's how Jefferson got Sally Hemings. And Sally Hemings was his wife's half sister. So yeah, a whole bunch of stuff here, but America, the incestuous, this is probably appropriate for your Utah talk. America of the incestuous.

This is probably appropriate for your Utah talk. This is how Thomas Jefferson came about owning the Hemings family was because it was his wife's family property. That's what happened. I was watching some history on that and they did the DNA trace with Thomas Jefferson and it's astounding how far reaching the DNA goes on that.

You know, it's an interesting time. Are you seeing a lot of people signing up at the website that you had there we referenced earlier? Getting registered? Yes, yes. There are a lot of people who are ready to vote. They always talk about voter enthusiasm.

People were showing up to vote even in a pandemic. I mean, look what happened in Wisconsin. There were lines and lines and lines. People were waiting five hours to vote. In a pandemic. So even though people are not like putting up fireworks

and things, people are ready to vote. And that's what we, I mean, we want this to happen. We want this to happen. Now we're ready. We want to be done with this guy that's now,'s right now living on Black Lives Matter Avenue, I think. He needs to be gone. His administration, not only just him. This is key.

You mentioned William Barr. Donald Trump cannot be Donald Trump without William Barr and Mitch McConnell. He can't. William Barr has enabled a lot of the worst impulses of Donald Trump. The racism, the Muslim ban, the going after his people he perceived as his enemies, his enemies list, basically, and even trying to protect him in the court. So William Barr has turned the Justice Department into a Trump legal defense system. That's basically what the Justice Department is right now. It is Donald Trump Legal Aid Society. That's it. And we pay for him to defend Donald Trump Legal Aid Society. That's it. And we pay for him to defend Donald Trump.

Yeah. Technically, the Attorney General is supposed to be our defender. Yes. William Barr is supposed to work for the people of the United States. William Barr is Donald Trump's personal attorney. And that's what he is. And people who keep talking about the deep state, Donald Trump and William Barr are the deep state. They are the deep state. You guys are looking

in the wrong direction. And I got into a very spirited conversation with someone over Antifa. And they're like, oh, Antifa is a terrorist organization, blah, blah, blah. And then you look at what Donald Trump is doing in Portland, right? And I'm like, you guys, you see how backwards this is? He got you guys saying Antifa is a terrorist organization while he's deploying fascist tactics in Portland. Like, you see how there's a disconnect here? You guys need to call yourselves Antifa and be anti-fascist because you have a fascist in the White House who's deploying masked, unmarked, camouflaged federal agents onto the streets of Portland and snatching people off the streets of Portland and putting them into unmarked cars.

That's not supposed to happen in this country. That happens in Russia, not in the United States. This is how backwards things are right now. Yeah. Syria, Russian police, you just disappear one day and no one ever sees you again. And that whole thing, and it's intimidation. It goes in line with him shooting up protesters in Lafayette Square so he could go hold up a Bible in the most weirdest way possible.

You can tell. I don't think the guy's held a Bible more than five times in his life. I don't think he knows what's in it. I doubt he's ever opened it or read it. So, yeah, I mean, everyone just needs to register to vote. It looks like Black Lives Matter is still really spirited here in Utah, which is good. They're keeping the home fires burning.

The crazies in Utah are just out of control. I mean, you probably saw that Provo meeting that they had or Utah County meeting where they had the no mask meeting. That was insane, man. Like, I just. It was insane. Oh, yeah. You saw my Facebook my my twitter post about that right yeah and then uh yesterday was it yesterday rubio rubio posted a picture about john lewis memorial and put up elijah cumings. And you're just like, wow, man. I don't know.

Wow. I mean, this country's got to start dealing with its racism. I asked Eddie God Jr. on the show, I said, you know, Eddie, you know, you've shown this arc of your book of how we go through this crap about every 20 years where we, you know, our racism that we've kept closeted rears its ugly head again. We never deal with it. And so it just keeps coming back. And a lot of that has to do with white churches and white power struggles.

And I go, you know, how do we end this? And to me, I think what a lot of needs to start happening and being appropriate in schools is talking about race teaching about the history of racism what racism is what to look for what are you a racist or you're not a racist um you know we learned a lot in history we learned about slavery and civil rights and all those things but we didn't really have these hard discussions of like, are you racist or are you not a racist? Here's some ways you shouldn't be racist. Here's why racism is bad.

I think, you know, I think we kind of glossed over it a little bit. There was probably some, why is racism bad in some of my schools, at least my schools, because back then we still saw civics and gym and what else is the thing they cut, music. But I think this needs to be something that's taught to everybody at a very young age because that's where racism really gets picked up. Most people, like when I was in school, I had African-American friends. I didn't even think about it until one day, you know, I've told this story a million times.

One day in 10th grade, you know, I was here in Utah, and one of my best friends the teacher pointed out so we know we're talking about slavery what do you think and i was like oh my i have a black friend um didn't really think about it but uh you know when people get out of school then they start uh dealing with different things like i've known some white people that go into the military and and sometimes they get they pick up those racist attitudes they're sometimes in the military and and sometimes they get they pick up those racist attitudes that are sometimes in the military and they've come back and i've been just like holy crap who are you man wow you're really racist um and i think at a young age we need to attack this and we need to tax it

institutionally because we certainly can't trust some of these parents to raise these kids um you know we just we just got to cut off at the head and we've got to teach it. And we've got to teach people how to look inward, like James Baldwin talks about. And like, why do you feel this way? What do you see? Why, why are you going this way? And we also need to learn that, you know, scarcity is this thing that's destroying America. This scarcity thing where it's like, well, the immigrant person or this person can't have the job because I have manifest destiny because I'm white.

I need to get everything that's great in America and whatever's left over is go to everyone else. That's some BS thinking that needs to end. Rising tide lifts all boats. And then policy. I think you were talking about policy. We need more policy

on your Facebook posts. We need more policy on your Facebook posts. We need more policy put into place. And hopefully Biden will do a lot of that. And whoever's vice president is, we'll put in a lot of different policies. We need to strengthen affirmative action. We need to strengthen all these different things. We need to make black lives matter because uh you know everyone is struggling but the people are struggling most if we can lift them up um then we can have be closer

to what america was supposed to be a great country for everyone every single person even people don't want to come here i mean that was the beauty of it the idea of it let's put it that way yeah exactly it's the idea of America. Now we need to fulfill the idea of America. I mean, the Chinese city on a hill, as Ronald Reagan

used to say. We are... Oh, did you see that ad that was put out by the Lincoln Project regarding... they used Ronald Reagan's words, but with all of Donald Trump's actions,

the Republican Party, they own this. They own this. And many of them, and I get into back and forth historical conversations with many people who want to say, oh, the Democratic Party was the racist party, and you guys are the actual racism, blah blah blah i'm like you know there's some history here and you can't you just research and learn and educate yourself that yeah this the southern

democrats of the 1960s were actually quite racist the the russell federal um the russell senate building needs to be renamed he was not a good person he was a democratist a segregationist and he was a democrat and the democrats today tried to rename that building and the Republicans stop them. So, yeah. So the Republican Party, after Trump, if there is a thing, they put out that report after they lost, I guess, with Mitt Romney in 2012, where they needed to look into the issues with race, and they had this long report, this is what we're going to do, blah, blah, blah, blah, and then Donald Trump came along.

Yeah. And that basically got put in the shredder, right? Yeah. It's an interesting case, Nikki. I mean, it's a dying base, because like you say, that report that you referenced, um, they were like, Hey, we need to, we're not attracting anybody, but white voters. And even then we're kind of losing people who are, you know, are sane. Um, and we need to, you know, open up the party to more people. And then, and instead of, uh, instead of doing that, they just, they just doubled down.

And went even deeper. They really did. And, you know. Go ahead. Go ahead. I was just going to say they saw it as an opportunity to win elections coupled with voter suppression. Because you can't have one without the other you suppress the minority turnout and you cater to the trump base to win election that's what happened with the tea party

and the rise of the tea party when we had a whole bunch of tea party people elected into Congress in 2010, and then later on in 2014. That's how that happened. In 2016, what people don't talk about, we talk about Russia a lot about 2016. What we don't talk about is what happened in the states with voter suppression, especially suppressing the minority in the black African American vote vote i think it was like 700 000 people i think and hillary didn't help at all so i'll throw her under the bus i really i really wanted her she should have had an african-american uh vice president i mean she really i really hated her vice president i, he's a nice guy, but I was just like, seriously, you went with that? And then the whole, well, he can speak Mexican.

I was like, what? He's not even really good at it. But no, I mean, there was a lot of failures from a lot of different aspects of that, of that vote you're right the gerrymandering um i remember all this reading about all the south things they did you know with the closing polls and you know we saw some of that again we saw that some of that in 2018 i'm sure we're going to see it in 2020 holy crap i mean it's not right now with the mail imbalance right they don't want to be mail imbalance in the middle of a pandemic. Because if you know that people have mail-in ballots, that means they're going to vote. If people have to stand in line in a pandemic and they close all the polling locations, people are standing in line four, five, eight hours, and they won't make it a federal holiday

so people are not getting paid to do this. So it's voter suppression. That's what it is, voter suppression. And a lot of what happened in 2016 was a lot of, I think, African Americans felt disenfranchised because he was so toxic. You know, Hillary was no gem. She said some ugly things about black people. And, I mean, she really wasn't the shining shining on the hill when it came down to it. I mean, she couldn't, you couldn't get any more whiter than Hillary Clinton.

Seriously, I'm a white guy. You just couldn't get any more whiter than Hillary Clinton. And I think there was some misogyny. I think there was some misogyny in there as well. But I think a lot of voters just didn't feel impassioned. They were just so disgusted by Donald Trump and everything else. And that's what he's trying to do again. He's trying to just be as racist and ugly as he possibly can so that African-Americans won't show up to vote.

But I don't think they're going to put up with it this time. Look at what African-Americans have done for their lives. There has been record turnout in many of these primaries, and people are ready to vote, and they're ready to be done with Donald Trump. We're ready to move on from Donald Trump. We're ready to move on from Donald Trump. We're ready. I said to Eddie Glaude Jr., I was like, did we have to

have this pandemic? Did we have to go to crushing ugliness of Donald Trump? Did we have to go so dark and deep back to almost the 1950s sort of state? And he'd drag us back there if he wanted. I've been screaming about that for four years. he if he could have separate bathrooms he would um and um do we have to go this deep to face our darkest closet racism to face the moment where we had to go we really have a racist problem and we really have to fix it um and then my my biggest fear is

is that after joe biden we all go kumbaya during obama and we and the racists go back in the closet hide but hide you know keep go back to pc and then 20 years from now two presidents from now here we are again we get another donald trump or another nixon or another reagan and we're just like oh great we still have these idiots again these racists i don't know man it's just it's just i look to the future and go oh hey this is our moment and we can't screw this up for all the reasons that you just said. This is our moment to really get this right. And deal with the things that we as a country have put on the back burner.

We just never dealt with. We never dealt with our issue of racism. We never have. Donald Trump is forcing us to look in the mirror. Many people should look in the mirror and not like what they see. They shouldn't. This country

is, the mirror is right in front of us. It's Donald Trump reflection. That should frighten all of us. I mean, this is someone who refused

to rent to black people in the 70s. He sued by the Justice Department too. Yeah. He had one of the largest lawsuits ever filed by the Justice Department because he refused to rent to black renters in New York. And when people say Donald Trump is not a racist, who exactly are they talking about?

This goes back to the 1970s. 1970s. So this is not new for Donald Trump. And people, because I see it all the time, you guys didn't care, y'all didn't call him racist until he ran for president. That is a lie.

That is a lie. Birtherism was a racist thing. It was, birtherism is racist 100%. 100%. 100%. So he has a history of racism. Even, don't discount the Central

Park Five. He called for the execution, even after they were exonerated. So there's a history here. He's been dog whistling for a long time. I thought it was really beautiful that those five gentlemen were with bill de blasio painting the in the middle right in front of the door trump tower

painting the black lives matter what's astounding to me the thing i really have a hard time with is uh like one of the people who recently threw paint on that Trump Tower thing, there was this crazy white woman. I want to punch all my white people in the face when I see him do that. But there was a black woman who threw paint down. And how do we deal with that as white people? When we see that, how do we deal with that? Because we see a black person. I know a lot of people use this excuse.

They're like, well, that's not really racism because there's a black person who threw paint on it too. And you're like, well, I don't know. I don't know. How do you deal with that? What do you mean? From what standpoint? I don't know.

James Baldwin used to say, there was a way of saying it, but James Baldwin used to say, there's a difference between a white man and a black man, but once a black man becomes a police officer he's just a police officer um and and so it's hard when we see that like like i got yelled at once by uh recently by a rapper i guess he's a rap executive or rapper he's made a lot of money and he just he told me that you know joe biden and the democrats are funding black lives matter through their political campaigns and and they do this every four years he's totally trumper and he just told me that i was uh what's the thing i was just uh

i was just uh signaling you know that i really mean what i was saying i'm just doing uh you know signaling of of i'm a good person i support black lives matter which isn't true at all i've done a lot of work to research what am i you know and cleanse myself um but uh you know some people see those things and they go well it's not a unified front so i don't know it's it's a struggle especially when i see that because i see white people take advantage of that and go you know oh that's going on and you're just like yeah but there's some reasons behind that the worst thing and and make that one thing about the entire movement. That was

one of the reasons why we pushed back. When I say we, myself, we had a press conference when the Black Lives Matter peaceful protest, it was a caravan,

it was a car caravan for protest right after George Floyd. And we went there. We had our Black Lives Matter sign and placards. And it was actually a good moment of solidarity with white allies, our Latinx community. It was good. I was there, had my sign, had my Black Lives Matter mask on.

It was a good moment of solidarity for the right cause. I got home and I get this text message, stay away from downtown, they're burning police cars. And I'm like, what? I was just there. And I got angry. I was angry. And what I was angry about is because I knew what was going to happen. And the conversation was going to shift from this movement to looting and rioting.

And it was going to be about that and not about why we were there in the first place. And that's what many people that really want to discount and discredit, I should say discredit the movement. That's what they're going to latch on to. And that's what they're still doing. And there's a reason for that. Protesting and protesters are protected by the First Amendment. And the only way to make them not protected by the First Amendment is to turn them into looters and rioters

because peaceful protest is protected by the first amendment is to turn them into looters and rioters because peaceful protest is protected by the first amendment as soon as it shifts it's no longer protected by the by the first amendment so let's turn them over into looters and rioters so that we don't have to say that they have their constitutional right yeah it's it's a it's a way of being dismissive that i really hate like when they call out you know kane west well kane west supports donald trump so what's going on um but i think this is why it's more important for uh all of us to come to our communities for black lives matter and show that the numbers are there uh i feel pretty good that you know we outvoted

technically trump so i i feel pretty good that i'm on the right side of history with the largest group of people who hopefully can bury the needle on Trump and in outvoting him and just setting a message so strong that like, hate will not be tolerated here anymore. And we're sending you to the dustbin of the ugliness of history, a dark moment that, that we're going to forget and hopefully put you in prison. The sad thing about both him and Barr is they're sold and decrepit.

God knows if they would see a day in jail. But one can cross their fingers and hope. But, yeah, it's interesting to me. You know, this country was actually founded technically on looting when you come to think of it. The Boston Tea Party. I mean, a bunch of guys wore, I don't know if they were masks or head coverings, but they hid themselves with what they were wearing,

and they stormed onto the ships of the King of England, and they destroyed the tea and dumped it into the Boston Harbor. That was some looting right there. That was the shot that went around the world that started the Revolutionary War and got us to where we are today. I think they probably tore down some, I imagine they tore down some statues of the King of England and did some other things.

But that's kind of what this country is building. I mean, we shouldn't have all-out looting. Certainly, like, the Watts riots were very destructive. But this is why it's important for us to listen is because, you know, one of the things I've been watching and looking at my James, learning about James Baldwin and the experience, I've been reading a lot about Malcolm X, MLK, and this whole story about how to fit together.

And then the gentleman you referenced earlier who was killed in his front yard for registering people to vote. Yeah, I read about him, and I got introduced to him through James Baldwin as well, what he was doing. And James was really depressed when he lost three of those people. And the arc of the whole thing in watching Malcolm X and seeing the peaceful thing that Malcolm was about,

but about a strong force, James Baldwin had kind of a different approach of how this is our America, and, you know, he talked really more to white people than anything as to who was at fault, who needed to resolve their issues, who needed to look inward and stuff. And then Malcolm X had the real power, you know, almost the Panthers, the Black Panthers sort of thing. And then Eddie Glaude Jr. talked about with James Baldwin's sort of history, the Black

Panther rise in Oakland, et cetera, et cetera. And you see these different movements and a lot of people just painting it with a broad brush of racism or, you know, Black people acting out. But you look at the challenges that black people were faced and are still faced with in trying to get a voice, in trying to get the rights to vote, in trying to get a seat at the table, and all the different variations of stuff they were trying.

You know, everything from Black Panthers of violence and to, you know, James Baldwin talking about love and let's all try and figure out how to get along. And, and what it really shows is how many different variations and ways black people have been trying to, to come to the, get us to the table, to get us to learn about racism, to get things to change and how desperate some of those changes have been. You know, I see that. I think the black Panthers were like,

we just need to send white people to ireland or something um which they they have some good points um um i know my white people uh and i hate about 30 of them is it 30 or 40 of them um but uh uh and you see that you see the arc of those challenges and those battles and what's been trying to go on, and we just really need to resolve this issue. We need to sit down. We need to elect a better president who isn't racist. We need to get him to enact policies that support all sorts,

every minority that's out there, Black Lives Matter, Native American Indians because they've been destroyed by this virus, Hispanics as well. We need to get the kids out of cages at the border, you know, part of being the shining beacon And we need to bring back what this country is about. And like I say, I think I would be a number one proponent of having racism and how to not be a racist taught in schools. And we need to have the ugly discussions, you know are they're hard um about racism but somehow we teach these younger people that racism is bad here's how you see it here's how you identify it here's how you go oh i'm starting to be racist because i'm starting to say things and i think until we really chew into that depth of that conversation, that ugly history, the manifest destiny, this,

this BS of white America and how, you know, the conquerors to the conquerors go everything, you know, I mean, we, we enslaved the Indians, the, the Native Americans, you know, we're just, we're just an ugly freaking history that we have. And the violence is just extraordinary. And I'm tired of seeing it. I'm just really tired of seeing it, seeing the same beatings that went on during John Lewis's time,

and then seeing it today again. I mean, even with these fascist Trump troops running around just attacking people and throwing them into things. You just see, I'm sick of it. I'm just tired of it. So that's my bit. Well, first thing we have to do is be honest about our history. I mean, isn't that the first step of the 12-step process with AA?

That's anonymous. 12 Steps to Racism. You have to first admit that you're an alcoholic. First admit you might be a racist. Yes, exactly. Step one. Step one. You might be a racist.

Maybe we need to get Jeff Foxworthy. You know, instead of that bid he would do, you might be a racist maybe we need to get jeff foxworthy you know instead that biddy would do you might be a redneck maybe we just need to get him on the do some psas you might be a racist if you vote for donald trump i think there was some issues with him so he may not be yeah yeah i think you're right i think you're referring to so i i mean we, we really need to have a cleansing, and hopefully everyone registers to vote through the support mechanisms you're doing. We really changed this country because what's happening isn't working, and I think everyone can see the darkness and the darkness that's coming if we don't if we don't change and we

really need to send a message so hard so deep so pound the table so hard with a message of majority that says this stuff isn't welcome in our country anymore and we're not going to have it and this isn't going to win america's going to be back because the whole world is watching us too. Right. The whole world is watching us. Like I have friends that they call me and they just go, are you okay, man? My friends called me from Australia last night. I was talking to him about 4 a.m. in the morning. And she was like, are you okay, man? Because I'm watching the news and that doesn't look good.

What's going on there man and i'm like do you have a do you have a do you have a room or a couch i can crash and she's like but they won't let you out of your country you're you're a shit old country now um so they're they're not gonna let you out like no one wants you people americans no go. Like I can't even get to Canada or Mexico. Like if I tried to go to Mexico, they'd be like, yeah, you see that wall right there? Yeah, that's actually to keep you out.

I don't even think there's anybody. I don't think there's any caravans trying to even get to America anymore. Like, they're just like, no, we're not going there. Yeah, Mexico isn't too bad, actually, when you think about it. I don't know, Mexico's starting to have a lot of coronavirus issues, too. But, no, we need to pound the table, and we need to send a message so strong and heavy that this will not be tolerated anymore. And then hopefully with policies and education and teaching and, and, you know,

more open dialogue. One of the things I really loved and I referred to a lot of my white friends is that a video series, Oprah was just recently on it. Hard discussions with a black man. Hard. And I don't know if you've seen that video series that's on it's with, I haven't seen it, but I've heard of it. Yeah. It's pretty awesome. And they get right into

the nitty gritty. He asked questions and it's beautifully produced. Uh, I think he's got a book coming out. It's a ESPN, uh, I think announcer promoter athlete. Um, and, uh, it's a beautiful series and it's, it's something that we need to all have. But racism starts from parenting. And that's why I think it's important to start teaching in schools about how to identify racism, what it is, the problems that it's created, the ugliness of our society, our history, and why it needs to be changed and how to root it out out how to watch for it um you know the different i like one of the things i had to learn with uh 2016 was when you know they started identifying stephen miller and the white nationalism and the breitbart stuff and i started seeing the code words i was like holy crap culture and you know uh you know all the code words they have for racism. And I was like, holy crap. Even recently, I learned what the OK symbol means.

And I was like, are you kidding me, Heil Hitler? Are you kidding me? This is the code these idiots are using? Oh, my gosh. Wow, I can't even make the OK symbol ever again because they've ruined it. Kind of like Hitler ruined that whole little mustache thing for everyone no one can ever do the Hitler mustache

not really so who wants to remember that guy but anyway Darlene it's been wonderful anything more you want to plug in while we're chatting? Yeah. Okay. My husband is funding for Salt Lake County Treasurer. Oh, is he?

All right. Yes, he is. So check him out at michaelslco.com. There you go. That'll be awesome. So check him out at MichaelSLCO.com. There you go. That'll be awesome. Yeah, we should have him on the show so we can promote him for voting. I'm going to be recycling a lot of the different interviews we've done with a lot of the different Democratic political candidates that are running.

So we're going to be pushing, promoting some of that content that we did there. So we'll definitely do that as well. Anyway, guys, go check out Darlene McDonald online. If you're in Salt Lake or Utah, get to know her better. She's just a gem and always wonderful to have on the show. And hopefully we've given everyone some thinking points, especially my white people, to, you know, think about what's in their hearts,

what's in their minds, and do some soul searching and some logic thinking about, you know, what they what's in their hearts, what's in their minds, and do some soul searching and some logic thinking about, you know, what they need to take and do. I really love the experience, and I love learning, and America lost some great people this week, and we need to honor them by getting rid of some of the ugly people in America and removing them from office. So get registered to vote.

Get out and vote. Make a difference. These people gave their lives, their whole lives and their abuse for voting. The least you can do is go out and take an afternoon to vote. Or better yet, just order ahead of time your vote by mail ballot

and everything else. So encourage my audience to share the show. Give us some like support referrals on the show. Go to the cvpn.com. If you want to see the whole video aspect of my chat here with Darlene, you can go to youtube.com. Fortuna's Chris Fossett, that bell notification.

And if you haven't, you may want to do some soul searching as to why you haven't done it yet, but it's never too late. Thanks to my audience for being here. Thanks to Darlene, and we'll see you guys next time.