The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Dave Navarro of Jane’s Addiction, Duel Diagnosis Art Exhibit at SXSW 2022 Interview

Episode Date: March 25, 2022

Dave Navarro of Jane's Addiction, Duel Diagnosis Art Exhibit at SXSW 2022 Interview Dueldiagnosis.com

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Boss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Cause you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. Chris Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com, thechris.com.

Hey, we're coming to you with another good podcast. We certainly appreciate you guys tuning in. Thanks for being here. We've got an amazing gentleman on the show with us today. He's going to be talking to us about his amazing art show that he did in South by Southwest. The name of the gentleman is Dave Navarro. You may have heard of him. You should have heard of him. He is an American artist, singer, songwriter, and television personality. He is a member of the rock band Jane's Addiction and played guitar for Red Hot Chili Peppers.

And he's also done his solo album, Trust No One, in 2001. Welcome to the show, Dave. How are you? Chris, it's a pleasure. I'm well. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to have you as well, too. Thank you very much.

I got to tell you that your intro right there, I thought I was going to a monster truck rally sponsored by energy, you know, like sponsored by Red Bull or something. I was like, Oh my God, what am I getting into? Yeah. It's almost like WWF. Yeah. But it's appropriate. It's good. There you go. Welcome to the show. And, uh, so, uh, tell us, uh, you, you put on something at South by Southwest. I'll hand it to you and let you give us a lowdown on what you were doing there at South by Southwest 2022, for those who may be watching this year. Okay. There's an amazing art gallery there called West Chelsea Contemporary Gallery.

It's in Austin, Texas, as you said. And my partner and I, my partner Padilla and I, we have a collective called Dual Diagnosis. That's spelled D-U-E-L Diagnosis. And what we do is we do apparel, we do street art installations, we do fine art, and the gallery is hosting a fine art exhibition for us. And that's going to be there through April 17th. So if anybody's in the area, I want to see some fine art. And please go to West Chelsea Contemporary. I think it's on 6th Street.

And, you know, the whole thing is really under the umbrella of kind of erasing the stigma around the mental health discussion, mental health topic. You know what I mean? You know, it's a very important topic. It's one close to my heart. I've had my battles and my struggles in my life so as my partner and so we got together to create this uh kind of this entity that's both of us coming together and just do some messaging and some imagery around mental health that's a little left of center. You know, so like a lot of the popular mental health phrases that you might see would be live, laugh, love, or happiness is a choice or things like that.

But we've come to decide that, you know, people who are really struggling, you know, that type of messaging can be alienating because they have no framework in which how to access those kinds of thoughts. So we try to present the entire picture of the human existence and say all of it is okay. That's awesome. Is there a website that people can go see?

Yeah, it's dualdiagnosis.com. And again, it's spelled D-U-E-L diagnosis.com. We have apparel there. We have works on paper there. We have inexpensive art. We have inexpensive prints, stickers, jackets, whatever you want. But like I said, we kind of moved into this fine art world, and the fine art world can get a little pricey,

so we like to offer different tiers for different people because we don't want to exclude anybody. What do you hope people get out of this exhibit? What do you hope they come away with? Well, first and foremost, I would hope that they just have an engrossing experience because the whole exhibit was created for West Chelsea Contemporary. So it's not like we had a stockpile of inventory of art that we just put up. It's a very elite gallery.

It's one that we're really honored to be in. And the messaging within the gallery is more focused on and aimed at letting people know that they're not alone in their struggles and whether it's a mental health issue or whether they feel like an outsider or whether they feel like they don't fit in like we're saying yes you do all of us have this just most people don't post about it on instagram you know what i mean so like you know they post their best moments on instagram they don't post themselves having a nervous breakdown. Some do, but by and large, they don't. Usually what's happening in the public visibility in terms of social media and content is you're not really seeing the whole picture.

That can be really isolating for someone who's struggling and comparing their lives to what they see online. So I think what I would like them to walk away from this exhibit is just a sense of knowing that they're not alone. I would love to have people have some thought-provoking discussion around some of the works. Some of it is very abstract and it's based on our nervous system and how our nervous system actually stores trauma. Our nervous system actually stores challenging events in our lives and it becomes a physical malady as a result of something that may have happened. So the pieces are very vast. There's some that are very on the nose and you know exactly what you're looking at.

And there are some pieces that are very abstract and open to interpretation, but they were done in a way to emulate our nervous systems in terms of the mapping in a visual way of how our bodies function and with the neurons and the wiring in their body and the electricity that causes one hand to make a line one way and one hand to make a line another way. It's all stored within the body. Definitely, Definitely. I mean, the biggest challenge is, uh, well, one of the biggest challenges with trauma is, uh, people keeping a secret or hiding it or being ashamed of it. Yes. I think one of the pieces mentioned shame. Yeah. We have a piece that says shame

has never saved anyone. And that is, and that is what that's referring to is shameful secrets that we keep that ultimately when they go unshared or untalked about or, you know, even in a therapeutic sense, you know, people hide stuff all the time. And those are the things that can lead to detrimental behavior, destructive behavior, and certainly can lead to severe mental illness and isolation. So we would like to encourage people to not hang on to their shame as something to be embarrassed by or afraid to talk about, but say it's a great strength to share that vulnerability and also free yourself of it. Definitely, definitely. I remember seeing, it was Oprah Winfrey's interview, the leaving Neverland boys and someone had gotten up on the stage and they

said, the secret inside that you keep is the poison that kills you. And so, you know, people being open up and you've opened up about your trauma and some of your childhood things that have happened to you. How has art made a difference or helped you or maybe how you've seen it help other people?

And what does this sort of art mean seen it help other people and what does this sort of art mean to you what is what does art itself mean to you i guess well wow and that's just i don't know if we have enough time for me to answer that question um but it you know it's always been a huge component of my life ever since i've been a kid it's a form of expression it's a form of accessing certain uh feelings within myself that I can't articulate necessarily in words that I can't sit in a therapist chair and talk about. And it's just another avenue for creativity, which I've been doing with music for years, as everybody knows. But, you know, that's more specific, you know that's more specific you know sometimes with music

with lyrics and the way the song goes you know it's a very specific way that the song is intended to come across even though people take different things from from the music but with the art everybody has their own individual experience that could be vastly different from the next viewer. So that's why it's really important to me. And I've been a collector for years, studied it in college. I went to art school when I was younger and I actually grew up, my father was in advertising. So in the seventies, when they were creating ads, it was a drafting table, exacto blades and T squares and rulers, and they had to manually put the ads together, and then shoot the ad to

create the ad. And I learned all those techniques from my dad when I was maybe seven years old. And that's, that's kind of how I got into learning about the tools of the trade and kind of balancing out layouts and so forth. But, you know, I guess and then I fast forward to being on tour with James Addiction in the early days when I was like 17, 18 years old. And we would be touring the world. But this is pre-internet, pre-cell phone, pre-everything. And really, the only thing there was to do was go to the museums. So I got a crash course in seeing the greatest masters of the world all over the world by the time I was 25.

And it just embedded itself in my DNA, into my soul, and having an opportunity to showcase some work with Padilla at West Chelsea Contemporary is, is really a bucket list kind of honor that I never saw happening. And so I'm still kind of kicking myself that it's, that it's really there and it's there till April 17th for anybody who wants to go there you go everyone should check it out you know you mentioned your journey uh i was a kid hiding under the covers of bed with a little tv watching the very first images of mtv's birth and seeing jane's addictions video yeah seemed like it was a repeat every all the time and and, yeah, it was just a wonderful beginning. How old are you, Chris?

I'm 54. So I'm 54 too. So do you remember when MTV first hit and they had, like, four videos? Yeah. It was the golden earring video, you know, when the bullet hits the bone. Radar love. Yeah, radar. There was all this, like, they had, like, four. They was all this, like, man, like, before they just ran them,

they just ran them over and over and over again. But it's funny, you mentioned Jane's Addiction and MTV because I had earlier told a story about how we were, at the time of the first Lollapalooza in 91, we were invited to do an unplugged MTV appearance and we passed on it. Because at that time we were really from the underground

we were really kind of an alternative band and we kind of looked at MTV as kind of like this corporate entity that we kind of really didn't want anything to do with and we passed on it and they stopped playing everything James Addiction from that moment on. It just fucked us. want anything to do with and we passed on it and they stopped playing everything james addiction from that moment on like it just fucked us like what are you gonna do you know what i mean

did you guys ever get a redo on that uh no i don't think we ever did well by the time by the time we stuck around long enough to get a redo mtv wasn't playing music anymore yeah you know what i mean funny it was all right i i got a redo because I did a reality show with my wife, Carmen, at the time. So I did sneak my way back in there, but Jane's Addiction didn't really, they never really cared for us after that. Yeah. I was honored to get a picture with Carmen at a Grammy Award ceremony, and she was so wonderful.

Yeah, she's the sweetest. We're still the best of friends. That is awesome. Yeah. Yeah, we really believe, like, you know, a lot of marriages go through, you know, trials and tribulations, and then there's breakups, and there's animosity, and bitterness, and so forth.

But, you know, we kind of looked at it like we spent some really great years of our lives together and growing together. And just because the marital component of our relationship didn't work out doesn't mean that we have to have bitterness and anger and resentment and hatred. In fact, we can still be friends. And so I really lucked out in that sense that, you know, we're not married, but we're still as tight as if we were. That is totally awesome. So getting back to the show, how many pieces of yours are in the show with Padilla? So the show is Dual Diagnosis and another artist named Al Diaz, and he's from the East Coast.

He's actually, he was Basquiat's partner in the early days. So he worked very closely with Basquiat and they created the Samos signature, which was spray painted all around New York city in the early days. And this is the days of Richard Hamilton and Keith Haring and, you know, certainly Warhol, but taking it out on the street in more of like a punk rock fashion. And so Al is one of the artists showing and Dual Diagnosis is the other.

And I don't know what's hanging in the gallery count wise, but I know that we presented about 150 pieces of work. Oh, wow. Yeah. And there's sculpture and there's a miniature installation that's like kind of a three-dimensional experience and we have i think four nfts on on screens hanging and we have two short films going so there's a lot to look at there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff how much time did it put uh take

you to put that together to to do it all yeah that took about a month and a half. And we, we, uh, we weren't entirely sure that we were going to make it. Um, but, uh, by the grace of God, we did.

And, uh, I think, I think it was one of those things where it was like, you know, we were so honored to be invited by this gallery that we could not fail. Like it wasn't an option. Try and restructure the show

like, well, we only have 60 pieces so maybe you can put some other things up and fill the space. We really wanted to fill the space. Every piece that's in the show was created specifically for West Chelsea. That's why there's a thread there's a through line

with all the works that that kind of have to be together they go together awesome if we could talk about the nfts because that's a really hot thing right now tell us about the nft stuff well i wish i could um i still am one of those guys that kind of doesn't understand it. You know what I mean? I see the value in it. I see the value in kind of merging crypto and art and having people feel like they're a part of a community. And, you know, being able to own something that's artistic, that still has value. And in a lot of cases, even if someone sells that NFT to somebody else, the artist still gets paid. So I think that that's a really beautiful aspect of it. But in terms of how it works and blockchain technology and even the crypto world,

I've never delved into Ethereumereum or bitcoin or anything like that so it's just a whole new horizon that uh we were encouraged to explore and uh we had a lot of fun doing it yeah and and one of the short films in the show was was a collaboration uh with a with a filmmaker liam lynch and i don't know if you're familiar with Liam Lynch. He directed Pick of Destiny. But he's also done, he's been doing viral videos since like the early days of the internet. You know, just if you Google Liam Lynch

and you look at his works, you will recognize something he's done. So we had an opportunity to do a short film with him and then turn some of those into NFTs. So those are collaborations. But I really like the fact that you get to have animation and movement within the piece and audio as well. So it's a different experience. fantasy of hanging NFTs still in like an ornate gold frame that you might see, you know, in, you know, the screen is in a frame and that's how you would hang it in your house.

But I have yet to accomplish that. It was, it was, that was the intention for the show, but, you know, we got them done. That's, that's what counts. And we're just exploring that space. You know, we know that it's a great way to get work seen. And certainly with our messaging, you know, we want as many people to see it as possible. And we started off very, very small. We started off at a low price point because we want, you know, when you're in the fine art space, you know,

and you have a fan base that your messaging is reaching, a lot of times they can't be a part of it and they can't purchase it because things in the fine art space tend to be a little pricey. But what we like to do is offer up a multitude of tiers where there's works on paper that are relatively inexpensive there's the nfts that are relatively inexpensive and then you know then there's the fine art that it's a higher price point but we don't want to exclude anybody you know what i mean because our whole messaging is about non-alienation except you know what i mean except the art costs can only go to a certain portion of the population so that

would be that would be contradictory to what what our messaging is so we we go to great lengths to try and provide something for all that's pretty awesome the you know nfts are like really hot right now and like you i I still don't understand them. I think I have to go to college for a few years or something. Yeah. To really understand them. Like on paper, like since I'm not a crypto guy and I'm not, you know, and I think it might have something to do with our age and not just keeping up with, you know,

with what's going on and every trend you know but um uh you know i uh i i personally don't understand the difference in value of something that i can look up online for free but then also buy it and own it but still anybody can look at it but i guess in same breath, it would be the same thing as if somebody owned the Mona Lisa, but everybody in the world can see it. Do you know what I'm saying? So, so that, and you can get prints of the Mona Lisa,

you know what I mean? So it's like for very, that are very inexpensive. So I do see the value in that sense when I look at it that way, but I'm still kind of baffled about the minting process, about the blockchain technology. And I and I, you know, and I just but it's a space to enter into wherein we could gain more eyes, gain more visibility and hopefully get the message out there a little bit stronger. There you go um you know uh the bands from what i understand are starting to explore nfts for you know like a lot of bands maybe yours did uh i

remember metallica i got one uh where you could do a backstage meetup and stuff like that right and so bands are starting to play with that where they can do different like membership things or backstage sort of things or some sort of specialty if you buy their nfts it's kind of interesting yeah it is it is which which is interesting but then you think about it and it's like you're creating your art and that's your art but then is someone buying the art or are they buying the experience that comes with the art maybe Maybe both, hopefully both. We haven't gotten there yet. Jane's Addiction hasn't done it yet.

My band with Taylor Hawkins and Chris Chaney called NHC, I think that we're going to explore that space. So we'll see how that goes. And it's just something fun and new and creative and fresh. And we're just on the, you know, the early stages of it all. So, you know, it's like nothing to lose but to try. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Out of all your pieces, and this is my putting you on the spot, but of all your pieces, is there one that's your most favorite? In the show? Yeah, in the show yeah in the show um there is a purple and yellow neon nervous system painting that's i believe it might be one of the larger pieces and for some reason that just hits me uh in a really great way and i think the reason being is that dual diagnosis has typically been a very limited color palette. And we decided to go neon for a couple of pieces, which is very outside of what we do. And yeah, that one, I think if I had the opportunity to keep one of those pieces, that would be the one.

Is it the black and gold one? Or I'm flipping through them really quick here. It's purple and yellow. So it's a purple background. And then there's yellow lines and neurons and all kinds of things going on. It's very abstract. Cool. I don't think I got a copy of it.

But it's in the same vein as what you're looking at. Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was very interesting, the choices you made there and stuff. copy of it but it's in it's in the same vein as what you're looking at yeah yeah yeah i thought that was very interesting uh the choices you made there and stuff and uh it's it's all beautiful uh so what's the future for um your art exhibits are you going to do more of these yeah absolutely um right now this show is running to uh as i said april 17th at West Chelsea Contemporary, Austin, Texas. And then we have a handful of shows lined up that are independent of that.

So it's not like this show is going to travel. This show is West Chelsea's show. So we will be participating in other shows. And we did last year a number of them. And, you know, it's been a it's it's been a wild ride because dual diagnosis started off as an apparel line. We just started off making T-shirts, you know, and then and then we combined our artistic endeavors and we started doing street pieces and installations on the street. And then we started going into fine art. And now we find ourselves in a gallery that houses some of the greatest works in the world by some of the greatest masters in the world. And we kind of can't believe it ourselves. You know what I mean? So it's really a bucket list thing that I had not anticipated coming to fruition.

I really think it's definitely your thing. I mean, as an artist, being so multifaceted and so many different flavors of stuff, I mean, it's really a thing. And I think it would be awesome to see some of the future that you have in that realm of art. Yeah, I mean, we definitely intend to keep moving forward. So, you know, but I also have a feeling that whatever we do next is probably

going to be totally in contrast with this and the last show we did was at julian's in beverly hills and uh that was a completely different uh a different show we we built a i think maybe like an 18-foot walk- in cuckoo clock. So it, it, it was a huge massive structure within the space of a cuckoo clock and you had to walk inside it to view the works. Wow. Yeah.

So, and like, and it, and since we're playing around with mental health and we're kind of doing it with a sarcastic smirk, you know, the cuckoo clock, if you think about it,

when you think about early cartoons like that was the symbol of crazy right you know so so it was like walk into our crazy space and take a look at what we're doing and so we really like to experiment with uh you know with with buildouts and and things that that you know have the viewer look at things within an environment that's specific to the art. And I'm sure we talked before the show about your background that you have there. There's two big pictures that you have. Do you want to tell, I'm sure people are sitting around going, what is that in the background?

Do you want to talk about that at all? Oh, well, this is a piece done by an artist. Well, it's a collaboration, me and an artist meg zany did this piece uh that piece back there is is just one of mine and then this wallpaper that you're looking at is andy warhol and uh that's just where all my guitars and stuff are and it's like as i said this is my office so you know if i if i need to be working on the computer or if I have a song idea, I just grab one of those and I plug it in and map it out. It's just kind of a creative space for me.

But my whole house throughout the place is full of street art. So I know a number of street artists having worked with them in Los Angeles and in New York. And I have, I have those artists come here and actually do work on the walls. Wow. Yeah. So like everywhere you look in the house,

as if it was a facade outside Los Angeles or New York or whatever, you can walk to my house and it looks like maybe you're on Melrose or you're downtown LA or whatever. It's just all these works by people that, frankly, if I ever moved, I couldn't take those pieces with me. Do you know what I mean? Like, I have a couple of doors that were done. I can take the door.

But, you know, by and large, pieces like that, I couldn't take that. But, you know, sometimes that's the beauty of street art is that it goes up, and it gets seen, and then it's only there for a limited time. And then usually, it gets buffed by the owner of the building, or the city cleans it off, or, you know, it deteriorates or whatever. So, uh, the beauty of speed art is that it's up, it's visible by anybody who's not even looking for art and it has an impact and it's temporary and ultimately is gone after, uh, an allotted amount of time. So, you know,

I have to look at it that way because it would be heartbreaking to leave some of the works that are in my house. You can always just tear out the walls and ship them. But it's a lot of walls. You know what I mean? I'd have to move into a house twice the size of this house just to house those pieces. You may have to move just so you can get fresh walls, so you can have new walls. Very true.

But the outside was – my whole backyard was done. There's an artist, Risk, who did a two-story mural in the backyard. So, you know, again, that's something I certainly can't take with me. So, you know, it's a beautiful experience to walk through. However, like I said, it's temporary. And, you know, that's kind of the beauty of it. I mean, that's the way it exists on the street, and it should exist in here the same way. Does street art appeal to you or touch you or motivate you?

Do you feel more connection with street art than, say, contemporary art like the Mona Lisa? Not more so, but I also do street art myself. So that's actually how Padilla and I met as I was working in a studio with Plastic Jesus

is his name. And Padilla was sharing that studio space. And we were working on street art pieces and I saw some of her work in there and that's how we met. So there's an immediacy, there's an adrenaline factor, there is messaging,

there is astonishment on how something got somewhere, the planning, the risk of arrest. There's all kinds of elements that goes into the street art world that is just really fascinating to me and really uh fulfilling for me but then i also have a great love of the masters i mean one of my greatest my favorite artists in the world was for me ramir you know what i mean and his use of light and the way he could capture a story and a moment and have such

technical precision, you know, that moves me in another profound way. So, you know, it's really, I wouldn't gravitate towards one or the other. I think of them as two different experiences. I think of them as the difference of putting on, you know, a Samuel Barber, a Dagio classical piece or the velvet underground. Like it's just,

what are you in the mood for? You know what I mean? There you go. Moods. Yeah. Uh, so everyone's peppering me and my messages. What's next for you musically?

Well, I have this band, NHC, that's brand new. That's Taylor Hawkins, myself, and Chris Chaney. And we have a number of songs up on Spotify right now. And we've been releasing songs either monthly or bimonthly. And there's probably like a dozen more coming. But right now, I think there might be eight songs up there now and we do shows here and there when our schedules allow and then jane's addiction is still functioning we're we're playing a bunch of festivals in may and then we're doing lala lala flusa in chicago uh in summertime, and I think that we might be doing a small tour

in the fall. So, I mean, yeah, my plate's pretty full. Awesome song. Your fans are going to love to hear that. And I'm just so glad that this coronavirus hopefully seems to be winding down. Well, they have just announced a new strain, the BA2. So, I don't know if it is. I really hope so. I had it. Did you get it? I didn't get it yet. Oh, don't know if it is. I really hope so.

I had it. Did you get it? I didn't get it yet. Oh my God. I had it. It just, that I, that it was,

it hit me really bad. Wow. I'm sorry. Yeah, no, I mean, I'm okay now, but like,

you know, it was, I went to, I had an event in Hollywood where we were performing, uh, for music cares, which is a Grammy associated, uh, in Hollywood where we were performing for Music Cares, which is a Grammy-associated nonprofit that helps put addicts into treatment that can't afford it,

that helps people with mental health. And we put on this big show, and just about everybody who attended got coronavirus. Wow. Or COVID. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I have friends that just were like, yeah, I feel a little tired and I have a cough.

And then I had friends that were just out for 10 days, like laying on their backs, sweating and feverish. And I fell into that category. So, you know, and that's, you know, our own physiologies kind of determine how that thing is going to hit us. You know what I mean? And now after Omicron and everybody thinking like, oh, it's going back to normal. And now to find out that there's a new strain coming it's just like i don't you know it's like this is gonna that that is just so deflating to hear that you know what i mean like like you know like la of all places finally

uh uh took back the mask mandate and i i can i can tell you that you know it's strange now like it's actually strange to walk around and see people's faces yeah do you know what i mean like there's still people wearing masks but like you'll walk down the street there'll be 20 people and then you'll see two people in masks whereas you know it used to be everybody was mandated to wear a mask and i have a a i have a gut feeling it's going to go back to that but um you know so that that's but that's you know that's uh i mean god just you think about the state of the world over the past couple of years, it's just been absolutely insane. And I know because you're my age, you remember the days when it was like, it wasn't like this.

It just, it just, it wasn't, it wasn't like this. Like I just, you know, and it's, it's, it's tough times. And I think, I think as a result of like, you know, and it's tough times. And I think as a result of, like, you know, the pandemic and now certainly with the war, you know, a lot of people are suffering trauma. A lot of people are suffering some mental illness. And certainly addiction is on the rise and overdoses are on the rise. And, you know, that's got to be correlated with, like, the isolation and the shut-in of the lockdowns and all those things. So I think now is a really good time to be speaking out about these types of subjects because, you know, people need to know they're not alone with this.

And, you know, it certainly affected me in a pretty negative way at first. And then as a result of dealing with the isolation and the shutdowns and the lockdowns, that's how the band NHC was formed. Because we couldn't work. We couldn't go anywhere. And so Taylor, Chris, and I got together just to play music, to have fun. And we started recording. And then by the next thing we knew, we had an album that was done and a band. So we didn't even set out to be a band.

Much like Dual Diagnosis didn't set out to be a fine art collective, NHC didn't start out to be a band. These were all just things that organically happened over the time and certainly through the pandemic crisis. Some of the most beautiful diamonds are formed in the most darkest of times. I like it. Well, we've liked having you on the show, Dave. Thank you very much for coming on.

It's been a pleasure, Chris. Thank you so much. Thank you. Give us your plug website one more time for this. The website is dualdiagnosis.com, and it's D-U-E-L, diagnosis. And the reason for that is when we're talking about mental illness, it's sometimes an internal dual. Like you kind of think of two guns facing each other within your own brain because there's so much confusion. And the left hemisphere is trying to kill off the right hemisphere and vice versa. So that's where the play on that word comes from.

And obviously, we've all heard the term dual diagnosis. It's been applied to me multiple multitude of times. And I can tell you that when they told me that I was dual diagnosis, I was shocked that it was only two. I was like, really? I'm doing better than I thought. Yeah, only two. Was it Sibyl? He had like eight personalities.

Yeah. There you go. Well, thank you very much, Dave, for coming to the show. We certainly appreciate it. Thanks, Moniz, for tuning in. Thanks to everyone for being here. Be sure to check out the show and exhibit and see you there until April 15th, I think. 17th.

April 17th. April 17th. Thanks, my audience, for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. And we'll see you guys next time.