The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Dr. Tomi Mitchell: Board Certified Family Physician, Author & Wellness & Productivity Coach

Episode Date: December 11, 2023

Dr. Tomi Mitchell: Board Certified Family Physician, Author & Wellness & Productivity Coach Holisticwellnessstrategies.com Show Notes About The Guest(s): ​ Dr. Tomi Mitchell is a board-certified family physician, author, and wellness productivity coach with over 10 years of experience in providing client-focused care. She is also a parent, a wife, and an entrepreneur who understands the challenges of balancing family and work demands. Dr. Mitchell is passionate about mental health and strives to eliminate stigmas associated with mental health and stress using family medicine principles to guide her holistic wellness practice. ​ Summary: ​ Dr. Tomi Mitchell joins Chris Voss on The Chris Voss Show to discuss burnout, mental wellness, and strategies for maintaining a healthy work-life balance. She emphasizes the importance of addressing mental health and mindset to improve overall well-being. Dr. Mitchell shares her personal journey as a physician and how she realized the need for a holistic approach to healthcare. She also highlights the common challenges individuals face when dealing with burnout and provides practical strategies for managing stress and maintaining a healthy work-life balance. Dr. Mitchell emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries, saying no, and prioritizing self-care. She also discusses the power of mental fitness and resilience in coping with the pressures of demanding professions. Throughout the conversation, Dr. Mitchell emphasizes the need for a holistic approach to wellness and the importance of addressing the root causes of burnout. ​ Key Takeaways: ​ - Burnout is not limited to work; it can also affect personal life and relationships. - Boundaries are essential for maintaining a healthy work-life balance and preventing burnout. - Mental fitness and resilience can be cultivated to cope with the pressures and challenges of demanding professions. - Time management is crucial for managing stress and making each moment count. - Self-care is essential for nurturing the mind, body, and spirit. ​ Quotes: ​ - "If your energy output is greater than your energy input, there's a situation." - Dr. Tomi Mitchell - "No can be a complete sentence." - Dr. Tomi Mitchell - "Success is a mind game." - Dr. Tomi Mitchell

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, this is Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. There she is.

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how to do it, and improve the quality of your life. The CEOs, the billionaires, the White House, presidential advisors, governors, Congress members, U.S. ambassadors, astronauts, Pulitzer Prize winners, people who write some amazing books, tell amazing stories that can improve the quality of your life because stories, ladies and gentlemen, are the owner's manual to life. I actually had to remember that for a second. So welcome, the elite crowd of people that listen to the Chris Voss Show and bask in the glow. Today we have an amazing young lady on the show, Dr. Tomi Mitchell. I already cut that. I don't know what's going on today. Dr. Tomi Mitchell joins us on the show today.

She is a board-certified family physician, author, and wellness productivity coach. And she has over 10 years of experience providing client-focused community-based care. She's a parent, a wife, and an entrepreneur and understands the challenges of balancing family and work demands and has seen firsthand how many family life problems are rooted in mental wellness and mindset. She has a passion for mental health and strives to eliminate stigmas associated with mental health and stress using family medicine principles to guide her holistic wellness practice. Welcome to the show, Tommy. How are you? I'm doing great, Chris. How are you?

There you go. I'm good. Is it Tommy or Tommy? I get both, but Tommy, i get both but tell me i get both it depends on where i am who i'm with i guess is there one you prefer i respond to both there you go all right i respond to just any four letter expletives right i figure yeah i figure it's coming in my direction i am yeah i probably do it anyway what's the title of your book that you have yes coming out early first quarter 2024 it's a long title it's called it's called the soul-sucking and interdraining life of physician how to live a life of service without losing oneself so that was obviously it's all sucking and interdraining life. Yeah. How to live a life of service.

Oh yeah. And help people without losing yourself. True story. So I had to get it off my chest. So maybe next time I'll call it soul sucking. It's a lot easier. It's a mouthful. It sounds like there's a lot of,

there's a lot of buildup in that book. A lot. And it's, you know, at the neck, the one I have, the second one that's coming after after that that one is really the icing on the cake this one's tame i started this one a few years ago you know how it is when you start a book a process it's like a birthing process a very like you're birthing an elephant not a human an elephant like

a two-year gestation elephant that was what i birthed one one bite at a time that's how i looked at a book was one bite at a time yeah definitely just like i'm gonna slowly write for an hour a day and then it turns into something so now is that on amazon yet where people will pre-order it i will have those details shortly so depending so yeah so the best way to pre-order best way for people to stay in touch that is to touch on your website and all that good stuff. Yes, holisticwellnessstrategies.com. There you go.

We'll be announced there. So give us a 30,000 overview of what you do and how you do it there. I help individuals really stop putting Band-Aids on their lives so they can live the best version of themselves. Because the fact is, I've been in this medical career for over a decade. We've been doing things so backwards. Healthcare is so screwed up. And I've seen it with all due respect. I drank the Kool-Aid for a very long time and then my own life experiences and then finding amazing community who share different similar values when it comes to healthcare, mental health, what really is making, what really are the root causes of the challenges

we have is life. I'm sorry. I'm a physician. I am. I really am. But I feel like we've done mental health a disservice. And part of it is because we refuse to have those awkward conversations. There you go. And so I guess a lot of uh a lot of external health problems or i guess technically internal health problems maybe come from our mental health yes most of our stuff is from inside out and most of our issues from the first 10 years of our lives really first yes we spend 50 60 70 years getting over the first 10 years of our lives wow i'm glad you're validating that for me we have a lot of people on the show that talk about trauma, childhood trauma,

and you can see the effects over the course of their life. And you can see the patterns, you can see, you know, all the wreckage behind you. And sometimes it takes people to their, like in their fifties to go, we should probably look into this mess that's going on.

All right. So why give up the best years of your life struggling when you could deal with it and get the help so you can have an amazing life? We should all just get psychiatrists at 10. That's another story entirely. I don't know if that's the answer. I can tell you love the healthcare system. So give us a little bit of your journey. How did you get into being a doctor? Want to into this field etc i like many of us wanted to help people like literally

and now and then also i think because not a thing my father is a physician so i was brainwashed as a child right to be a doctor be an engineer to be a lawyer i had to pick one in order to be a doctor, be an engineer, to be a lawyer. I had to pick one in order to be part of the family. So I picked medicine. And I actually truly, genuinely love it. I picked family medicine, the least glamorous out of all the areas of medicine. That is what I chose to be by choice. Yes, I did that to myself. You said you were brainwashed first.

Well, yeah, you have to be. You have to be a little crazy to do this work. At least the work of the insurance companies. I hear that's a nightmare for doctors. Oh, it can be. Yeah, yeah. And then, I mean, the patients probably are. It's a disaster.

It's a disaster on so many levels. You could be, I don't know, working construction. I don't know. There you go. You know, speaking of construction, I actually used a tool this morning. It was called a hammer. I hung up the picture up there, quite proud of myself. So it's straight, hopefully. There you go. Maybe there's a burgeoning career there. Oh, I know. I can bring a hammer. You might like more of this. There's no insurance. There is insurance in construction, so it might

be up. so what do you you do a number of things there at your i guess clinic that you have where are you located at i'm actually by the beautiful rocky mountains physically i'm in canada right now though my life has taken me in the u.s england all over the world so i'm in canada my medical practice however my coaching practice is global with most of my clientele within North America. Okay. But then my reach with my business, my podcast is further. It's more, it's international.

So there you go. And what's the name of the podcast? The Mental Health and Wellness Show. The Mental Health and Wellness Show, which is the opposite of ours, called the Unmental and Unhealthy Show. Hey, opposites attract, at least initially. They do. Very good. So you do coaching, speaking, employee wellness, online courses.

And primary care. So I blend them together so that I have patients who are truly, I'm their family doctor. I look after them, their kids, their grandpas, everything. But then I have people who come to me because they realize that life is not working out. Whether it's showing up in their relationships, showing up in the work. That's usually where people first come to terms with that there's an issue. It's usually when it hits work.

Not so much the relationship piece. It's when it hits work. Their pockets. Then they listen up and be like, okay need some help there you go so what's a what's a what is a burnout and you talk about burnout help people burn out is that is that a sign that it's time that they have an issue and they need to address it it definitely is like who describes burnout as this like constant stress that's unmitigated and it's solely related to work i beg to differ slightly burnout yes it's continuous stress but you can't put life in just little boxes

because our personal life impacts our work like you can't separate the two because it's the same you going from your bed to the car or to your desk at work to the work it's the same mindset it's the same way of doing life and seeing life so it's that's why i look at it holistically holistic wellness strategy so often we look at things in silos and that's where the problem is you have to look at the full system right you can't just take a pill two pills and call me in the morning sort of thing exactly you have to look at what else is going on whether it's your emotional health physical So you can't just take a pill, two pills and call me in the morning sort of thing. Exactly. You have to look at what else is going on, whether it's your emotional health, physical, financial, spiritual, intellectual. All of those things need to be looked at.

There you go. So you need to be the full circumference of a human being as opposed to whatever. You know, I fixed some of this just by creating multiple personalities. And then I have to deal with the same person all the time. Oh, there you go. You can have Monday. Yeah, Monday is Bob, and Tuesday is Doug, and Thursday is the guy who says kill, kill, kill that you can't listen to anymore. So there you go.

It's a hell of a callback. Everyone around you happy? Hey. Yeah, there you go. As long as I stay away from that one, everyone's happy and nice. I'll get the anchor bracelet off next month. i'm sure it'll all work out in court as a wellness coach what are some of the common challenges you observe among individuals struggling with burnout like what are some of the signs like if i'm out there in the audience going i wonder if i'm burnout yet as the as their world is flaming around them what are some of the signs and how

do you address them yeah like you just don't give a rat's tail no more like just not giving anymore that's that's a sign it's just like fuck it i don't care exactly thank you break the ice that's fridays around here and so how do you address them how How do you go, okay, well, we have some burnout now. What do we do? I keep it really simple. Okay. I like have this. I'm not a huge math fan, but I have a very basic equation.

If your energy outputs is greater than your energy inputs, there's a situation. So we balance it. We see, okay, what's going in your life input, like the happy moments that go on a vacation, the self-development, the relaxation, whatever it is, crocheting, whatever your thing is, and the output. So soul-sucking energy vampires. And I allude to them in my book, more so in my second one. But those things that are sometimes very obvious and the things that may not be so obvious. And the not so obvious is what really drains our batteries the most that's playing in our background and it's usually replaying our thoughts identity or beliefs that were created from the time little johnny was a

little boy in wichita wherever little johnny grew up or suzy and that's what's draining us but most people just look at the obvious they think oh my oh, my boss is, you know, my partner is, you know, got bills. But they're not looking at what's really going in the background. And so they need to look at it and address it and say, hey, you need to help this. What are some practical strategies for maintaining a healthy work-life balance especially in demanding professions like health care yeah so you really have to know when to say no no can be a complete sentence no no thank you thank you for thinking about me but no there you go right that's really hard for a lot of people because they're used to saying yes

they're people pleasers because they that was how their program that's how they their childhood was they had to please they thought they had to please people to get attention and that carried them right or they feel like they'd be less of a person if they say i'm sorry i appreciate you thinking of me but in order for me to maintain the quality of work I like to give, I have to pick between project A and project B. Or would you rather it be? Right? Boundaries. Creating time for yourself.

And that is really important, especially for those who are self-employed. We have a lot of flexibility that someone who works at a regular 9 to 5 has. We can largely pick our hours. So we can create times for those self-charging activities, whether it's a sport, a hobby, whether it's dancing. I love to dance. Whether it's writing, journaling, picking up the phone and talking to your aunt

from different time zone across the country. Right. But if I don't have an aunt who's across the country, I'm just kidding. You talk about how mental fitness and resilience can be cultivated to cope with the pressures and challenges of professional. How do we know if we have any mental fitness? Mine's just fat, lazy on the couch.

Mental fitness is amazing. You could be physically fit and not be mentally fit and vice versa. Mental fitness is built to see a challenge and quickly find an opportunity. How many individuals went through the past few years? Same situation. Some were like, whew, we're charged. Let's do something. Let's create something. How many businesses

were birthed in the past few years? A lot. Books, too. Books, right? Mine was birthed at a long gestational period, but it was conceived. Right? It was probably the best

period for book writing ever in history. There was a boom. In modern history, there hasn't been a period like this, right? That's definitely true. But being a challenge and finding opportunity, realizing that, you know what, maybe being dependent on that situation isn't serving me. Maybe I'm not fully utilizing my skills. That was one of my moments.

I was like, I don't feel i'm being authentic to myself i know i'm not i remember going to oprah years ago yeah i went to an oprah show years ago and she's talking about the authentic self and i'm like i'm not being authentic to my true self i have way more skills than what i'm using in this box that i was in and having the courage and the faith and the work ethic and be able to stick to it and actually work towards achieving a new reality for your life. That's very important. There you go. You know, you mentioned the word boundaries earlier too.

Yeah. Boundaries are a real important thing that I find a lot of people don't employ or even know what they are these days. And boundaries on top of saying no seems like a really good way of keeping things in line. I don't know. Boundaries are critical. Like in my profession as a physician, the first thing is like,

sure, I can see that the patient, sure, I can do that. Sure, I can do that. Sure, I can do that. But then where do you sleep? Where do you rest? Where do you have time for yourself? You are human too.

You are first to human. And the people that need you the most are the ones that will be thinking about you after my thoughts and prayers are with you or spoken. Because they have moved on. Yeah. The boundaries are something that can really help, especially if you have toxic people in your life. Yeah. People that are emotional vampires. Yes.

And, and, you know, trying, trying to keep sometimes those folks in line as well. 100%. I call them like they're soul sucking, right?

Emotional vampire. It's the title of your book. Oh, it's in there. Trust me. It's there. That's what it took so long to like, right.

And got to get rid of my own vampires, you know, in a nice way. Of course. I mean, we'll, we'll check your backyard with scanners. So what are some common misperceptions about burnout and wellness?

And how do we tell those myths? A common misconception is if you love something, you shouldn't be ever be burnt out. You can love something and be burnt out. What about someone? Same thing. You could love somebody and be exhausted. And they could still be good for you.

You just haven't taken the time to create those boundaries. Reinvest some time in them. Have a fresh perspective on the relationship. And clearly, there definitely can be situations where that person was for a season, not for a lifetime. Okay. That was for a season.

Sometimes we try to put people who are seasons for a lifetime, or maybe they're just for a moment, not for we are changing. If, if you're growing on this continuum of life and the people around you are not taking the time to grow and invest in themselves, you will eventually not see eye to eye. Yeah. And so many times we say, oh, that's my childhood buddy or this is this person. But they're not growing.

They're not moving forward. So they're moving backwards and they're holding you back because of their limited beliefs, their paradigms. They haven't taken the time to mature. And let's face it, if you all started off, let's say, you know, like many of us started off at the bottom, worked your way up. If all your friends were still scrumming for a couple of bucks, it's going to be hard to be like, hey, let's go hang out. Maybe we should go meet up in Malibu this weekend

or let's go jet to like London. There's a really good show going on. You're not going to be able to do that. Yeah. very i know it may seem like a odd example but that's what happens you change too much that you're so different that your inner circle has to change it doesn't mean that you can't maintain a relationship with them it's just the type of relationship may have to change and the fact is it's probably changing, but you just haven't come to terms with it. Yeah, that's true. You can outgrow people.

I don't know. It's interesting to me, the dynamic that people in relationships have. Like some people, they can out... One outgrows the other. I've seen that with my business partner. Oh, yeah. I grew into something completely different. He stayed just a stick in the mud

cowboy shit kicker right and that doesn't serve you that doesn't help you're gonna it's gonna be friction and it's gonna hold you back yeah didn't help in the end and then some people you see they just weirdly grow together in some sort of weird thing like you ever meet a couple and they're just fucking weird but they're both weird together. They both have the same haircuts. They both like complete each other's sentences. It's beautiful, harmonious. But sometimes they're just weird together.

Like you look at them and you go, I see why you two together because you're the same and you're fucking weird and no one else on the planet would want to be with either of you because you're crazy. I love it. There are people like that and you know what? Yep. But they're not your people. They're not my weird. You're not your weird.

I think that's what you have to do in dating and finding your people. You just have to find your weird. You have to know yourself and you have to know what you want. You need to know what it should look like. Feel like, taste like, like all your senses.

You should really get that clear here. I'm going to see what it tastes like. Yeah. It's like, I probably should have showered this week. You know, but you did mention that, you know,

you see somewhere in there, you said about taking care of yourself or developing yourself. Yeah. I know one thing that some people feel in relationships where they try and grow together and be together and be as one. And I think it's really unhealthy where really you should try and make the best version of yourself and complement each other. What do you think about that? I agree. And it should be two whole people coming as one. the best version of yourself and compliment each other what do you think about that i agree and it should be two whole people coming as one and yeah you might have a strength and that person might

not and work together towards some common goals right there has to be similarity where you're working towards a similar goal otherwise it's like going right and left if your goal is towards honesty integrity and the other person is like, you know. Yeah. So values too. Values. Oh, that's, I love that word. So, you know, that's a, that's a classic.

I love that word value. Yeah. So your values are aligned. Cause if they're not aligned, then, then you're not. Yeah. And so these are really important things and you're, you're right. If people aren't happy at work, there's usually stuff going on at home. I've seen that as a CEO over the years where if I've got employees that are struggling, you've got to sit down with them and go, what's going on? And usually it's something at home.

It usually is. Same here. I've had over 100 employees over the years, and it's something at home. They were once this nice person to deal with. Now it's like this different animal. Yeah. And it's your fault. Everything's your fault. You're like,

okay, I did that. I did that. What is it? It's. Yeah. And my, my issue is I used to have to solve the problem so they can start selling again.

So I got to play psychologist and go on through their head and figure it out. And why doesn't their wife love them? Why is their marriage working? And, you know, you know, all that sort of stuff.

And I'm like, why is this my problem? I don't get paid for this. I should have really, I really should have started a psychiatry business in the side and most of my companies. Oh, there you go.

Maybe next, next career. CEO and psychiatrist. Just lay on the couch. Tell me when your mom didn't hug you enough. Now go sell some shit. Damn it. Make your quota.

So there you go. Now go sell some shit, damn it. Make your quota. So there you go. When you talk to people, it looks like what you do also on your website is you work with corporations and organizations to talk about burnout. Tell us what sort of services and things you do there. Yeah. So I've had the pleasure of, you know, partnering with other businesses. We've gotten to like, what, a Fortune 500 companies or smaller mom and pop businesses where we, first we listen, what's going on, right? That's the first thing you got to do, you got to listen. And then take that information and then process it and then ask questions.

And usually the common denominator, there's a few common denominators. One, burnout has three layers, okay? There's the personal stuff, okay? The individual, the employer. They have their own stuff that come from home, life, three layers okay there's the personal stuff okay the individual the employer they have their own stuff that come from home life whatever then there's the teams like maybe this person is not a good manager for this group of individuals right and then there's this system in which they're placed in so in order to truly deal with burnout holistically you have to look at all the three layers because it's a disservice to tell your employees go exercise do mindfulness training here's yoga go do this when you're giving

unrealistic expectations at work with crazy deadlines and not giving the resources and sometimes not giving the respect they need to do the job right you're telling them to fish with no fishing tools you're like go get it and they're like what and burnout's probably really big for organizations and people these days you've probably seen an increase of it with covid massive increase remote working and crises and you know just all the crazy things that are going on in this world. There's a lot of crazy right now. Yeah. Running out of eggs.

That was a big deal over there for a while. Yep. Yeah. And so burnout is probably big for organizations right now. It's huge. And you know what? Organizations, they care about a lot of things. And let's face it, every organization, a business has to make money.

And it affects their bottom line. If a third of their most efficient, productive employees are on short-term disability or long-term disability or underperforming, that impacts them significantly because let's face it in most businesses, it's a, it's 20% that do 80% of the work. Yeah.

That's the truth. You do not want your golden eggs to stop popping out those golden eggs. Yeah. That's the truth. You do not want your golden eggs to stop popping out those golden eggs. Yeah. You want those golden eggs popping out. You need those golden eggs because if they stop and they're like, screw this, I'm going to start my own business. Good luck. There you go. It's an interesting world that we live in right now.

And I think probably, you know, as we've talked about, people are experiencing burnout more than more. Any success stories you want to share out maybe of clients you work with or helping people overcome burnout and improving their overall well-being? Yeah, there's been so many success stories. Because frankly, if you do the you can you're consistent and you're honest with yourself and you will get results so i've seen success stories where the best stories are the ripple effects and that puts a smile on my face where it's not just that individual that is healthier happier more productive a nicer human being to be around their community benefits their workplace benefits their own benefits and and then sometimes you see them like find themselves again that joy

that spark that's like to me that's everything yeah it that ripple effect it's not just about the person in front of me it's the people that they're connected to. And when I see downstream, the blessings, I am beyond thankful. Now the individual who gets better and keeps it to themselves, that's great. But in my,

what I want to do is amplify these blessings, these changes, because it's not just about that person. It's about the people that they're connected to, because we are a global community. So I get to do that if i get to push that domino just right and they influence people who are making decisions that impact us as a society and that has happened i can't share the details just being vague but you know that brings joy to my life because again being on this journey

is not something that I knew I was going to be on before. The doctor piece I knew, but the talking, speaking, keynote, writing, that was birthed out of situation in life and being like, if I'm going to go through something, what do I have to do to make my experiences so much worth it? Like, what do I need to do to make that experiences so much worth it? Like, what do I need to do to make that painful situation, something that's no longer painful? So that's, I think that's the answer for

a lot of us who are on this journey. And those of us who birth businesses or really took that leap to make it more formal during the past three years, we'll just call them the past three years. You know, I think there has to be a connection to what you're doing. Because when you have a passion and purpose, it brings happiness. Definitely. Definitely. You talk about using time management as a way to manage your stress. 100%.

There's a saying we all know, time is money. But I also add time management is money well spent. Every hour, you only have 24 hours in a day at best. We might get to start it, but there's no guarantee you'll get to finish it. How are we going to make each time matter? As CEOs, we want to be working on top of our businesses. I got in the trap before when I was burnt out of doing a lot of the nitty gritty stuff that I i didn't need to do i did not need to go to the store to get coffee i didn't need to do that you know but i was doing it you know i don't know why but you know just being mindful like what

things do you need to do that will make the biggest impact not just for today but for tomorrow and oftentimes they're the most uncomfortable things but we have to do them we have to be like that will make the biggest impact, not just for today, but for tomorrow. And oftentimes they're the most uncomfortable things, but we have to do them. We have to be like, okay, this needs to be done. Otherwise there's going to be a big problem. The other thing that I really find helpful with time management is delegating. I have assistants that work for me

that take a lot of things off my plate. So I can do the things that only I can do. And that's important for time management it is so important and then being healthy and with the mind my mind is sharp i'm able to see a challenge and quickly find possible solutions and work through them right and having that catalog of information stored in my brain where i can access it when i need to. There you go. So you talk about that,

the power of self care. So nurturing your mind, body. Yeah. It's this is success is a mind game. I'm yet to meet a successful person who's doesn't have it at least largely here. Yeah.

I don't have it there. So that's clearly what my, you just too modest. You want to last it there. You're just too modest. You wouldn't have lasted this long. You know that. That's true. After what? Two years? Yeah.

Most podcasts fail actually after seven episodes. Yeah. You're at what? We're almost to 2000. Okay. Yeah, 16 years. So yeah, most podcasts fail at seven, episode seven and 80% and then the 20%, another 80% fail by episode 20.

It's insane. There you go. I'm over a hundred myself. There you go. Congratulations. You're at the winner's scale. You really are. It's funny.

Good job. you're at the winner's you really are it's funny there's so many people that are like I'm going to be a podcaster I'm like stop it they'll tell me I have an idea for a podcast and I'll be like what is it and they tell me and I go that's an episode that's not a podcast it's like you got 30 minutes of material there

exactly good luck building that into years. But final thoughts as we go out, how can people onboard with you, reach out to you, utilize your services, get to know you better, et cetera, et cetera. For sure. Holisticwellnessstrategies.com. Holistic with an H, wellness strategy. So there's three S's there,.com. And you will find me. There's a link on my page where you can book a talk with me. The first half an hour is on me

and after that, we can talk business. There you go. Tommy, it's been wonderful to have you on the show. Thank you very much for coming on. It's my pleasure. There you go. And thanks to my audience for tuning in. Go to Goodreads.com, Fortress, Chris Voss, LinkedIn.com, Fortress Chris Voss,

Chris Voss, one of the tickety-tockety, and the big LinkedIn newsletter in the 130,000 group over there as well. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you guys next time.