The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – E. Jean Carroll Trial of Trump Commentary and All the President’s Women: Donald Trump and the Making of a Predator by Barry Levine and Monique El-Faizy

Episode Date: May 13, 2023

E. Jean Carroll Trial of Trump Commentary and All the President's Women: Donald Trump and the Making of a Predator by Barry Levine and Monique El-Faizy https://amzn.to/3O69N7x With groundbreaking interviews, behind-the-scenes reporting, and never-before-seen photos, All the President's Women records 43 new allegations of sexual misconduct against President Trump, including that of E. Jean Carroll, the woman at the center of the civil trial that found Trump liable for sexual abuse in 2023. During his 2016 presidential run, the revelation of the Access Hollywood tape and subsequent allegations of sexual misconduct lodged against Donald Trump looked like they might doom his candidacy. Trump survived, and the first two years of the real estate scion's presidency were marked not by controversy over his behavior around women but by the Mueller investigation. Outside of being found liable for sexual abuse in a 2023 civil trial that awarded E. Jean Carroll $5 million in damages, Trump has widely dodged the #MeToo bullet that has taken down so many once-powerful men. But despite the decades of tabloid fascination with his personal life, the story of Trump's relationship with women has never been fully told. Considering his bully pulpit in the White House, the reckoning is overdue. All the President's Women offers the most detailed account yet of Trump's history with women, dating back to his childhood and high school days through his rise in real estate, reality TV, and politics. This book will show that Trump's behavior goes far beyond occasional "locker-room talk" and unwanted advances. Barry Levine and Monique El-Faizy detail more than a dozen new allegations against Trump, including a disturbing attack on a woman at Mar-a-Lago, an incident at a private Manhattan sex club involving a teenage girl, as well as Trump's behavior at fashion shows and beauty pageants--events that gave the future president a hunting ground to harass young women. Veteran journalists Levine and El-Faizy tell the story of Trump from the point of view of the women in his orbit--wives, mistresses, playmates, and those whom the president has dated, kissed, groped, or lusted after.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. Chris Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com, thechrisvossshow.com. Welcome to the big show, my family and friends. We certainly appreciate you coming by. As always, the Chris Voss Show is the family that loves you but doesn't judge you.

Leaves on as harshly as your mother-in-law. You know that evil side eye she gives you? She's a wonderful person, I'm sure. Anyway, guys, refer to the show to your family, friends, and relatives. Go to Goodreads.com, Fortress Chris Voss, YouTube.com, Fortress Chris Voss, LinkedIn.com, Fortress Chris Voss, all those crazy places. We're even over on that dare TikTok. Check out what we and, I don't know, kids are doing over there.

We're trying to be cool, but it's not working. Who knew why? Anyway, we have an amazing gentleman, brilliant mind, author, journalist on the show with us today. Barry Levine joins us today. We're going to be talking about uh some of the recent trump uh issues uh his book which uh talks about that at length all the president's women donald trump and the making of a predator that came out in october 2019 and he also has a follow-up book which is interesting because it's tied in together we'll talk about

that uh the spider inside the criminal web of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Did I pronounce that right? I mean, there's a reference of calling her Ghislaine and Ghislaine.

I just never have cared enough to address her properly because I don't think she's worth it. At least that's my opinion. Anyway, Barry Levine joins us. He is a veteran investigative reporter and editor in print and television. He received the Huffington Post Game Changer Award in 2010 for his shoe leather reporting. Evidently, he's been reporting about leather shoes. No, I'm just kidding. It's not that. That's a shoe leather reporting. Evidently, he's been reporting about leather shoes.

No, I'm just kidding. It's not that. That's a shoe leather report. We'll get an answer on him on that. And he led a reporting team to a Pulitzer Prize nomination for investigative reporting and national news reporting, and he lives in New York. We don't want that against him.

That's an El Paso salsa joke. I'm sorry, Barry. Welcome to the show. How are you? Thank you, Chris. I appreciate you having me on. Salsa from New York! That was an old commercial there.

So welcome to the show. Give us your dot coms or wherever you want people to find out more about you on the interwebs. BarryLevineAuthor.com. There you go. And to clarify, what is shoe leather reporting for those Gen Zers that don't know? Well, that's an old term. I mean, that goes back to the press card in the fedora days where reporters would go out in the field and they would knock on a lot of doors. And if they were doing a good job, they would rough up the soles of their shoes because they they walked so many

miles they knocked on so many doors so that the term shoe leather reporting uh came about yeah it's that old uh wear the soles of your shoes you know i think i think reporters and press people should bring those hats back with the little press card in them that was always cool i love old film that does that so barry uh uh let's talk about some of the news that's happening today. Recently, there was something that happened in the Jean Carroll trial with Donald Trump. Tell us a little bit about some of your thoughts on that and maybe some of the tie-in to your book. Sure. I also want to point out, Chris, that the book I co-authored with a former New York-based journalist, Monique Alfazé, who is now based in Paris, and we worked together on the Trump book, All the President's Women, Donald Trump and the Making of a Predator.

And it was super important for me, when I went down the road on that book to have her insight. She had written about the evangelical community. She was also able to address issues from a woman's perspective and it just in the course of the reporting over the 100 interviews over the um year of the investigation um she was crucial uh to the process and i was out in the field and she was um i was filing copy and sending in interviews and she was compiling them into the narrative so um i want to give her um a credit on that on that as my co-author. There you go. The E. Jean Carroll case, actually, when we were wrapping up the book in 2019, almost ready to send the book off to the publisher, that story broke. And it was significant

because, now again, just to give you a little history here, when Donald Trump was in the White House in the early days, and the Stormy Daniels hush money stuff was beginning to make its way out into the media. I thought that was so significant, even beyond the days of Clinton and Monica Lewinsky. Here you had a president in the White House and stories were coming out about women being paid off, and of course, ended in a huge investigation. Now, of course, he's been, you know, indicted for that, and we'll see what takes place in that case here in New York, which is a criminal case. But the E. Jean Carroll popped up at the end of the reporting process. She was an advice columnist here in New York for major magazines, a well-known author, very respected woman around town who is older. revealed something of a bombshell disclosure that Donald Trump had raped her back in 1996. She had said they were acquaintances. There's a photo showing them together with her husband at

the time and Donald Trump's wife at the time, his second wife, Marla Maples. Her story goes that she was going into Bergdorf Goodman department store here in New York. Donald Trump, who his Trump Tower is just down the street from the department store store on Fifth Avenue, was going in there to buy a gift and saw E. Jean and said, why don't you come shopping with me? I need to pick out a gift. Would you help me? Give me your insight. And so she said, she followed him up to one of the top floors there where he had picked out some lingerie.

They ended up in a dressing room. Trump had said, had said, would you, you know, would you model this for me? At that point, things got a little scary for her. And before she knew it, like we've reported on so many other women in our book, Trump jumped on her. She claims that we have an audience here over multiple outlets, so I don't want to be extremely graphic, but the result was, you know, her claim that he had raped her against her will, forced himself on her. She said she didn't scream. She was more in shock. But what she did was she tried to fight back. She tried to lift her knee up and prevent him from doing this. She left the department store. He ran off. She left the department store and went to a payphone. This was in the days of 96 when we had payphones on the street here in New York.

And she called a very respected author, a woman named Lisa Bernbach, who actually testified at trial, and immediately explained, this is within minutes of what had happened, basically said, I was just with Donald Trump. This is what he did to me. Lisa said, E. Jean, what you're telling me is that he raped you and that you should be going to the police right now. Wow. you and that you should be going to the police right now. And now I interviewed Lisa for my book. I wanted to get her cooperation on the story. And when I spoke to her, she reiterated what she also told the court here in New York last week, that she absolutely believed what E. Jean Carroll had told her. E. Jean was shaking on the phone. And of course, this is 96. This is long before Donald Trump had aspirations. Well, he may have had aspirations for the White House at the time, but long before a campaign, there was no political motivation here. It was simply a best friend telling another best friend what had happened to them. And she was extremely convincing to me. I told my co-author, I said, this story is like so many of the others that we've heard about him.

I believe her. I believe the cooperation. She also told another woman, a TV anchor here in New York, a former TV anchor here in New York named Carol Martin, a similar story. Carol Martin was of a different mindset. She told E. Jean, you know, Donald Trump, he's powerful. He'll attack you. He's got lawyers. You shouldn't go to the police. Now, she later said, you know, now in light of this, she said, I probably was advising her of the wrong thing. While Lisa had told E. Jean to go to the police, about including the Donald Trump story, but about. It was, you know, E. Jean, I had learned, included in the book, she had base, certainly a portion of that Trump base, I think we well know from what happened in Washington, the January 6th event, that he can

cause individuals to do violent things. And of course, she lived in fear, but at the same time, she felt it quite necessary to file a defamation lawsuit against him, which is what she did. And this was, this is going back a couple of years. And this, that case had gone through multiple courts, the defamation case. At one point, Donald Trump had the Justice Department involved trying to defend him because he made his disparaging comments against her while he was president. Then what happened here in New York, a law was enacted giving victims of sexual assault one year beyond the statute of limitations to file new claims. Over that year, E.J. Carroll filed a brand new lawsuit, not only as part of it as defamation, but actually a civil suit in federal court on the actual rape and battery charge. And so what we had here finally over the past two weeks was that trial. It was a civil case So even There was no chance of course That you know like a criminal case

That Donald Trump could go to jail However she was determined To get justice And you had a nine person jury You had six men You had three women Donald Trump refused To appear in court

E.G. Carroll's lawyers Used a Donald Trump refused to appear in court. E.G. Carroll's lawyers used a video deposition that they took of him in which he certainly hurt himself. He was asked, of course, about the Access Hollywood tape. He was given the opportunity to take back in some way what he said. But in fact, as the people who are watching this have heard over the news over the past few days, Donald Trump in a way celebrated it. He said, oh, this is something that's going on for a million years. And unfortunately or fortunately, you can do this if you're a star you can you can grab a woman that way you could take advantage of women you could sexually you know abuse them that was obviously the inference that he was making from the tape that he once um tossed off as locker room conversation when it

first came out uh brought forward by the washington post uh. So he destroyed himself on that in front of the jurors. And then he had also famously said, this woman isn't my type, as he has brushed off so many women who he has attacked, who have made allegations against him. Her lawyer showed Donald Trump photo, black and white photo, during the deposition and said, who is this woman in the photo? And Donald Trump said, oh, that's my ex-wife, Marla Maples. Well, in fact, that was E. Jean Carroll. After Donald Trump's own lawyer, who was sitting there, who probably was having a heart attack, said, Mr. Trump, no, that is, in fact, Ms. Carroll. Donald Trump then said, oh, yes, right, of course, the photo is blurry. I really can't make her out. So, you know, this is what the jury had to work with. He wouldn't obviously sit in the court. He wouldn't

look E. Jean Carroll in the eye. He stayed away from the courthouse. And her legal team put out 11 witnesses. They put out the two women who I mentioned, the cooperating witnesses who had spoken to E. Jean Carroll that particular day of the incident. They put out two other women who I've written about in the book who described sexual misconduct by Donald Trump against them. They told their own compelling stories in front of the jurors. The jurors took less than three hours to deliberate and came back with, the judge had given them three levels of the sexual misconduct, either rape, sexual abuse, and then there was a third, lesser level. And all of these are described under New York law as to the specifics of the actual sexual attack in and of itself. Or, of course, they could have dismissed E. Jean Carroll's allegations.

Her lawyer said, Donald Trump says this. He doesn't know this woman. It's a hoax. It's a political hoax. It's all made up. Blah, blah, blah. They came down to the second level. They found what had happened to her to be credible.

They said it was sexual abuse. And they, in total, along with the defamation, they awarded her $5 million. So that's a judgment right now that Donald Trump has, I believe, 14 days to pay. He says that he is going to appeal the case. His lawyer, Joe Takapina, said he's going to appeal the case. And from what I understand, he is going to have to post that money and Donald Trump famously is an individual who has always, many allegations over the decades of not paying his bills, not paying lawyers, not paying workmen back in his Atlantic City casino days. In this particular case, he's paying one way or the other. And then, of course, he has done nothing but to continue to disparage E.J. Carroll. He went out with videos on his truth social. Then, of course,

he attacked her yet again last night on the CNN town hall in which he appeared in New Hampshire, called her additionally a whack job, and I was fumbling through the appendix of my book here because I have pages and pages of comments that he's made about dozens and dozens of women. I couldn't find the whack job reference directly, but I did find he had called Ann Coulter once a wacky nutjob. So he combined the two

there with a new way to describe E. Jean Carroll. I mean, what can you say about this individual? It's really interesting. He didn't even mount a defense which i thought was uh also interesting as well and i i was laughing when you're talking because i remember i remember seeing the deposition videos where he points to

you know he thinks it's marla maples he's that's my wife right there yeah and uh he's clearly pointing to somebody he's attracted to yeah and you know and he's like oh she's not my type well you you picked her out of a lineup eh uh so uh there you go and it was just extraordinary to watch and it's it's almost like living in never never land i mean like you watched like you mentioned the cnn town hall yesterday he's still attacking her and disparaging her and and uh it's just it i it's extraordinary to me that politicians we still allow to behave in this way he has an incredible history with stormy daniels and and and and how many p how many women did you interview in your book i know there's a lot of women at one point that had come forward.

Right. And just to add to that, his lawyer said to the jurors in part of the closing arguments, while Donald Trump had said, E. Jean Carroll is not my type, she said, you saw what he did with picking her out of that photo. He said, she, and this was her, of course, back in the day She was a very beautiful woman, a blonde-haired woman He said, she said, Donald Trump, E. Jean Carroll was exactly Donald Trump's type She was a former beauty pageant contestant, a beautiful woman. So of

course, that was just another nail in the coffin there in part of the trial. And his attorney, Joe Takapina, did not call a single witness. They did not present one witness. So there you have it. When Monique and I went into the start of this book for Hachette, the publisher, there were roughly about 19 or 20 women who had come forward over presidential campaign who accused Trump of sexual misconduct. And over the course of our investigation, we turned up another 40 some odd cases of sexual misconduct, bringing the numbers into the 60 plus category where I was able to, and I have it listed here of the book in front of me. I listed each and every woman in the back of the book, those who felt comfortable having their names used and those who wanted to be anonymous. And there were, of the 60 incidents, there were 26 incidents that I wrote about, which had specific alleged incidents involving sexual contact. And this ranged from groping against the women, to kissing them without permission, to much more serious cases,

the E. Jean Carroll rape, the attempted rape of a woman who was doing business with Donald Trump back at Mar-a-Lago, who had filed a lawsuit against him for attempted rape. Just horrible, sickening stories. And you began to see patterns emerge from the reporting. And there was no rhyme or reason when Donald Trump would decide that he was going to target an individual. There was a woman who was coming out of the U.S. Open, the big tennis tournament that they have here every year in New York. And she was waiting for her car. She was a yoga instructor. Donald Trump was with a friend. He pointed to the woman and said, look, Leo, look at those legs. He went up and grabbed the woman, tried to kiss her, grabbed her breast. She ran off. It didn't matter

that this was, you know, in public. There's been incidents, of course, that have taken place with his wives in proximity. The People magazine reporter, who was one of the two other women who testified at the E. Jean Carroll trial, she was down at Mar-a-Lago doing a piece about Donald and left the room and Donald Trump attacked her, grabbed her, you know, tried to kiss her, said, you know, we'll have an affair. You know, I just saw it just happens repeatedly in his life. And this goes from the 1990s all the way up until when he was campaigning for president. In 2015, he grabbed a woman, a campaign worker, inside a van at one of the campaign stops and kissed her against her will. There are so many stories that we compiled. One of the most, and I'll just point this one out, that to me is still troubling. And I thought about this woman

all during the trial. She was a woman who I interviewed down in Florida, like so many in Donald Trump's type, she was a tall, blonde woman. She described an incident. She had been married at Mar-a-Lago. Her husband had been a member of the Mar-a-Lago club. And he, over the course of their marriage, he became very ill and was battling multiple sclerosis, of which he would eventually lose his life from that disease. They had gone, he was kind of at the end of his life, they were feeling a little better. He said, wouldn't it be wonderful if we go to the annual New Year's Eve party at Mar-a-Lago?

And at the time, Trump was engaged to Melania. This was before they had actually married. Melania had been there that night. She apparently had gone upstairs to the living quarters. This was after midnight when guests were leaving. Now, she had told me that Donald Trump was aware of her. He had seen her around the Mar-a-Lago Club when she had been married there. He tried to chase after her bridesmaids. On this particular night, her husband had gone to get the car, and she had gone to the ladies' room at Mar-a-Lago And was about to leave As she was exiting through the ballroom

Literally behind a giant tapestry curtain Donald Trump grabbed her And started kissing her And also took his hand and shoved it up under her dress, under her black Versace dress, into her vagina. Wow. And she was mortified. She said, you know, what are you doing?

Leave me alone. My sick husband is here. You know, how dare you do this and he's like um uh he's like you know uh you know we should have an affair it's just crazy it's just it was absolutely crazy and she had like so many other women um held on to the story for many years. She had told me she had been a dancer when she was, you know, much younger. She was fearful that if she came forward, they would, you know, victim shame her. They would say, well, she was, you know, once a sleazy dancer or something. So, of course, she probably, you know, approached Donald Trump. She never told her husband about it before he died. She told a friend who corroborated the story with me.

And we're able to also corroborate through documentation and photographs the rest of the story. She said when that Access Hollywood tape was played, she said, I literally shuddered because everything he was saying about grabbing women using the P word, she said, he did that to me. That's exactly what he did to me. Jean Carroll. There was a woman who came forward to the Washington Post, Kristen Anderson, who had been just sitting next to him at a Manhattan night spot back in the 1990s. slid his hand under her skirt and grabbed her there. That story was corroborated. We have so many stories like this from people from so many different walks of life. And, of course, Donald Trump has denied every single accusation against him. When he was president, before this book was published, I put together an 18-page memo outlining all the allegations we were making against him in the book. I sent it to the White House,

confirmed with his press secretary that the memo was received. There was no response. When the book came out, one of the newspapers, the Washington Post, got a comment, oh, it's just, you know, all these allegations are old. They're 20 years old. It's another sleazy book about him or whatever. The fact is, many, many of the stories were, you know, were brand new. There was a story that was also, and this happened a couple of times.

When Donald Trump was running his beauty pageants and his modeling business. He would often invite models to stay at Mar-a-Lago and he would take a key and at least twice tried to enter the bedroom of some of these women in the middle of the night. And one of the women was sleeping and she awoke and she pushed him off. He tried this same thing with a supermodel at the Plaza Hotel in New York. I had interviewed her boyfriend who was in the modeling business and Donald Trump didn't know that this man was going to be with her. He entered the supermodel's room, got a passkey from the Plaza Hotel in which he owned at the time here in New York, entered this supermodels room in the middle of the night. They thought it was a maid or somebody

coming in. They were startled in their bedroom. Donald Trump walked into the bedroom and saw her with this man in bed and ran out. He, of course, had not been expecting the man to be there. The man and the supermodel then chased Donald Trump down to the lobby. And the man, the boyfriend told me, he said he tried to grab Donald Trump and say, how dare you enter this woman's room in the middle of the night? And Donald Trump said, well, I don't want sloppy seconds. I mean, this is just, these stories, there's a pattern to all of this type of behavior. You can put all of these incidents in different types of categories definitely and and by his own admittance uh once again the hollywood uh access tape uh where he just says you know i just do it i just go up and grab them and force myself on them and you know

we saw the same pattern with bill cosby and uh uh the hollywood mogul uh Weinstein. Yes. And the same sort of pattern, very predatory, very sociopath, very attacker sort of thing. And the feeling that they were all powerful to the point that no one would come out at them. And since they kept getting away with it, they kept getting away with it. Oh, yeah. I mean, I, without question, put Donald Trump in the same category as Harvey Weinstein, as Bill Cosby. It's interesting when those stories broke.

Donald Trump, of course, you know, made negative comments about Weinstein, made negative comments about Bill Cosby. But there's no question that he remains a serial predator and yet again wants to be in the White House. And you can see from his demeanor on that CNN town hall last night uh his his character uh uh has not changed at all um i i think in fact you know he's become he's become even more delusional uh but uh you know he he views himself as all powerful with women uh this has been going on um over the course of his entire life. And, you know, I needed to find what was, you know, where did this start? It was the same thing when I was looking at the Jeffrey Epstein story. You go back to their youth and with Donald Trump, it was a very interesting story because, first of all father was a was a well-known philanderer cheated on Donald Trump's mother so Donald Trump was raised in an

environment where there was no respect for women you you know, to begin with. When Donald Trump was sent off by his father to the military academy because he was such a wild youth and uncontrollable, that's when this issue with that's you began seeing it at a young age at you know 16 17 years old um he he always had to have a date and if another one of the cadets uh that he was with uh had a date donald trump would immediately begin disparaging the you know the girl uh one of the former um students that had told us uh donald trump uh witnessed donald trump um just uh right in front right in front of this um and this was probably a 16 or 17 year old girl in front of her boyfriend donald trump said oh she you know that's his date you know she she's a dog she's a dog and he's a dog, and he's making wolf sounds and things like that. As we reported in the book, Donald Trump's own father, on weekends at the military academy, would bring statuesque women.

These were older women to the military academy for Donald Trump to walk around and kind of show himself off. I can't say that Donald Trump's father paid for these women to show up, but that to me was certainly the indication. And Donald Trump then in the military academy's yearbook was listed as, his nickname was Ladies' Man. And that was something that Donald Trump at that young age was extremely proud of, that he was given that title. Let me ask you this. Why do you think, you know, I had had a gal pal female friend call me last night and she told me about an approach uh from a business executive um that had happened that had discerned her she's married and

she has no interest in whatever and suddenly she started getting dms um well and and so i know women get uh approached poorly poorly or disgustingly might be a better word, by men sometimes, by some men sometimes. Men are very weak in their nature of character. I don't find they'd be masculine men at all. And they get approached all the time by men, but they get salacious stuff sent to them. I've had a lot of gal pals that have gotten uh stuff sent to them you know i've had a lot of gal pals that have gotten dick pics sent to them different things like that just sometimes out of the blue like there's no warm-up to it there's no hey hello how are you doing um and and and so a lot of women i think i i can't speak for them because i don't know but my assumption is

from my uh gathering of polling is a lot of women have probably had at least one experience maybe in their life of being misapproached or inappropriately approached in some way, shape or another. And why do you find that? What surprises me is, number one, that we would allow somebody who had the allegations that he had, you know, the Hollywood access tape, we would allow that person to become president. But number two, why would, do you have any thoughts on why women would vote for him after their experiences with these types of men? I mean, all I, all I can tell you is that, you know, during the course of the reporting of the book, I sent one of my researchers to multiple rallies to interview the women at these rallies, you know, the Trump supporters. And to ask them, you know, how can you support him when you've seen the tape, you've heard the allegations. At that time, there were allegations from 20 different women. You've heard them on the Howard Stern Show, disparaging women.

Talking sexually about his daughter on the Stern Show. Talking at the daughter of his 16 at the time, Ivanka. And, you know, many of the answers came back, well, you know, I believe that the women were out for fame. I believe that they found Donald Trump to be handsome, that they wanted to have a relationship with him. none of the women that we interviewed at these rallies found, you know, maybe privately they were concerned about it, but at least among, you know, that crowd. And again, when you're in those rallies, and I've been in those rallies in terms of the reporting it's overwhelming you know i mean it is a uh combination of um um like the you know you know wwe wrestling event where donald trump is the um heavyweight champion um

and it's uh it's a cross between you know that and and a um um you between that and being in front of a TV preacher's congregation with thousands of people out there who believe that he's next to God. It's, you know, it's an experience that these supporters share, and there really is nothing like that. And I was listening this morning on the car radio and the, you know, the response and, you know, to what happened last night. And the fact is, you know, none of this is going to turn off his base. The comments he made last night about aging Carol, it's not going to turn off his base. But what it will likely do is make the undecideds, particularly the suburban college-educated women probably be very reluctant to support him because he continues to pound away at women and refuses to acknowledge having lost the election or anything else. It really is something that no other politician, presidential candidate, has ever been given the buy that Donald Trump has. And it's a remarkable dynamic that he has among his supporters and and i don't think you can compare it to you know

anything you know anything else yeah i think i correct me if i'm wrong uh but i really think the me too campaign and how it came out was because people were so aghast and sickened by donald trump's behavior and the way he treated women. I think the Stormy Daniels probably came out around the same time because I think it came after, it came out after he was elected, right? Yeah, I was going to say, we write in the book that, you know, he really created the Me Too movement. I mean, you know, there was a huge march on Washington after he was elected by, you know, there was there was a huge March on Washington After he was elected by you know, the women's March

There's no question that Majority of women You know who are not his followers find, you know find him to be You know the most vile type of character when it comes to women, but his supporters have continued to look the other way. And we raise a lot of those questions in the book, and Monique spent a lot of time interviewing, you know, ranking people in the evangelical community about their continued, you know, support of Donald Trump. You know, I hope that we'll see some things that have yet to emerge. And one of those things I hope we see, which maybe will affect that community of support for him, is if any of the women who we believe Donald Trump had impregnated and paid for their

abortions were to come forward. David K. Johnston, a Pulitzer Prize winning book author and a Trump biographer, had reiterated to me for the book that he was aware of a few women that, that specifically that Donald Trump women who had abortions and either paid for by Donald Trump or paid for by surrogates of Donald Trump and of course my sense is these women are under ironclad NDAs non-disclosure agreements but wouldn't it be fantastic if if one of these women were to come forward um during this up during this upcoming election if he remains in the race if some of these other criminal investigations don't don't take him down because then i think um uh then then of course i i i think you you'd see a cracking among that support that he has from that community. Definitely.

It definitely would be interesting. Yeah. And what I was leading up to with the Me Too thing was he was one of the very few people who survived that in accusations. I mean, there were some false accusations as well, but largely the predators that got taken down, he survived it. And it was, it was kind of extraordinary to me that he, he was able to do that. But, you know, I, I don't understand some of the other vote. It is, it is interesting to me, the makeup of, you know, said women uh defend him or looks aside from it

they actually to see women at his rallies wearing the shirt grabber by the p word uh celebrating it you know making it a meme and and stuff you're just like wow okay you know i mean it was it was it was mind-blowing uh let's as we ran out the hour let's get a plug in here because uh as we talked to the green room your book the spider inside the criminal mind of jeffrey emstein and and jeslene maxwell uh uh the the story that you did with your first book all the president's women led you into that story let's let's get a tease out on that because that there's also been news now that i guess his uh phone or email list or something is is now out there and and now there's been some call to what's going on that way yeah i mean uh the the epstein book really you know

came out of the out of the trump book of course you, and I describe in both books their relationship. In the Trump book, I point out that Donald Trump was very tight with Jeffrey Epstein back in the early Palm Beach days. And there had been an accusation made during a lawsuit that was filed during the 2016 campaign by a lawyer representing a woman who had claimed that she was 13 years old and that she had been raped by Donald Trump at a Jeffrey Epstein's house. The lawsuit was, the woman received death threats the lawsuit never went forward it remains it remains a story that still needs investigation I tried very hard to speak to the woman when I was reporting on the when I was reporting on the Trump book went back after her again during the Epstein book. She's afraid. She doesn't want to talk. But I will add that it's very disturbing in the Trump book

that there's many references in the book to Trump's interest in younger women. I mean, we have this in, you know, I mean, as I said in the book, he had modeling agencies, he had beauty pageants that he owned, and these were hunting grounds for him. These were opportunities for him to have access to younger women. And there's several women on the record in the book, beauty pageant contestants, former models who talk about Donald Trump's interest in underage girls. And of course, that's part of the book. And for the record, Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein once had a party at Mar-a-Lago. There was 20 some odd women at the party and only two of them were the male guests, Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein.

So just let that sink in. Now, of course, Donald Trump has said, you know, Jeffrey Epstein was a bad guy and this and that. But, of course, they were close at you know at one point um and it was really from developing sources on the trump book that i uh wanted to write the epstein book after epstein was um um uh found uh dead in his uh his uh jail cell it just seemed like the uh uh you know the next book to do. And with that book, I also went back and looked at Jeffrey Epstein's early life in terms of growing up. Epstein grew up outside in Brooklyn near Coney Island. Donald Trump, of course, grew up in Queens.

But there was incidents that happened, Jeffrey Epstein stalking a high school girlfriend or a woman that he wanted to be his high school girlfriend, almost coming to blows with that girl's boyfriend. I found many disturbing issues with that. At one time, Jeffrey Epstein was a private school teacher, and there were allegations made by some of the students that I interviewed, the former students, how he had targeted one young girl in one of his classes. So like Donald Trump, Jeffrey Epstein's predatory behavior went back to his early days in terms of growing up. And, you know, Donald Trump's vision of women when he was growing up, when he was in the military academy me academy excuse me was playboy magazine um you know donald trump would would look at playboy magazine that he had wanted to be hugh hefner and you know one of his former classmates told me you know he said well we were all you know

we were we were young kids at the time you know we all looking looked at playboy magazine and this is these are the women that you want. But he said, you know, you grow up and you realize, you know, that's, that's a, you know, a fake distorted world. But he said, you know, what's interesting about Donald Trump is that his mentality, he never changed from a 13 year old boy. He still maintains about looking at women. He still maintains the same view that he had as a 13 year old boy. Yeah. I think,

you know, Mary Trump does a great psychological profile. So they've been very insightful and a great discussion, Barry on the news. I'm, I'm happy for EG and Carol that she's going to get her money or hopefully she gets her money. Let's put it that way.

Cause he's known to peel the hell out of everything, all the way to being courted over and over. But I think it's still a win in her favor and a vindication, and maybe it will encourage more, like you asked for, that other people, maybe the people that allegedly had abortions with him, will come forward, and maybe we'll bring forward more people. The interesting thing is, is, you know, the question is, is will it impact his voters? I mean, he's still, he's still, according to most polls, the lead of the Republican party.

You know, I, I gotta tell you, I've, I've, I've run the gambit in my life when I was young businessman, I was a avid, I mean, I was an avid, I was a G GOP supporter. I voted for George Bush, uh, during George Bush W's term. I,

I got disenfranchised for a lot of different reasons. Um, the Iraq war was one of them. Uh, and, uh, the religious thing, I'm an atheist.

Uh, and then, uh, I found myself on the Democrat side i i used to be a liberal i find myself now as a moderate uh democrat and i and i so i've run the gambit and i remember being embarrassed by w bush uh his presidency and the way he acted or or should i say dick cheney's presidency i always get those those two confused. Um, but I was embarrassed. Uh,

I can't imagine being a Republican cause I used to be one, I guess what I'm trying to say at being embarrassed by this guy. I mean, I mean, I, I, I've had people say to me, you know, well,

if Donald Trump had been a Democrat, which he used to be actually in donate a lot to the Clintons, um, and you know, Hillary Clinton was a Republican. You would vote for Trump. No, I wouldn't. I mean, that's disgusting and repulsive.

There's probably not enough words in the English language to describe it in that negative light. But yeah, I mean, his own admittance of the tape is extraordinary. So I appreciate you coming on and sharing this all with us, Barry. It's been wonderful and delightful to have you on. Thank you.

I I'm honored to be on your show and I appreciate you giving me time to talk about the book. Thank you. And likewise, my friend, uh, give us a.com so people can find you on the interwebs, please.

It's a Barry Levine, uh, author.com. There you go. Uh, order of the book folks, wherever fine books are sold, all the president's women, Donald Trump, and the Making of a Predator.

And also check out the other book I highly recommend as well, The Spider, Inside the Criminal Mind of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. And if I mispronounce her name, fuck her. I don't care. She's behind bars. She's behind bars and a convicted criminal. Thank you very much for tuning in to my audience. Be good to each other. Stay safe.

We'll see you guys next time.