The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Empower Patients: Two Doctor’s Cure for Healthcare by Deane Waldman Mba MD, Vance Ginn PhD

Episode Date: September 2, 2025

Empower Patients: Two Doctor's Cure for Healthcare by Deane Waldman Mba MD, Vance Ginn PhD https://www.amazon.com/Empower-Patients-Doctors-Cure-Healthcare/dp/1965732364 Deane Waldman, MD MBA: After four decades fighting the system to provide best care to cardiac babies, he knew something had to change, but change to what? Vance Ginn, PhD: With extensive knowledge and experience both state and federal governments, he knew money was the key, but who should control it? Together, these two doctors developed Empower patients, a plan that would: Return financial control to YOU Directlyu connect YOU and your preferred doctor Make medical care both affordable and accessible Provide effective safety nets for medically vulnerable Americans

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they help authors reach their audience and maximize their book's success. Today, an amazing young man on the show, we're talking about his book that came out May 22nd, 2025. It's entitled, Empower Patients to Doctors Cure for Healthcare. Dr. Dean Waldman is on the show with us today, and his co-author was Vance Gill, if you're searching for that on Amazon.

We're going to get into with him, talk to him about his insights and his experience and why he wrote the book. Welcome the show. Dr. Waldman, how are you? I'm great. Thank you. Thank you, and thanks for coming on the show. Give us your dot-coms, anywhere you want people to find you on the interwebs. Oh, it's easy. It's just deanwoldman.com. although, as I mentioned to you, my mother put E&E on the end of Dean, even though we're not French.

So it's D-E-A-N-E, Waldman. But the website I really want people to pay attention to, which isn't up yet, won't be for another month, is empowerpacients. com, because what I'm trying to do is actually cure a patient, and the patient's name is U.S. health care. Well, I heard it's in critical condition. the emergency room. It's actually on the way to the morgue if we don't do something. We're hoping it's going to re-zombify or reborn. Maybe it's a zombie now. That might be better. I don't know. So what's this about? You say there's problems in the health care? Are you sure? Give us a 30,000 overview of some of the details in the book.

It's really, in a sense, very simple. We are spending more than anybody else in the world by an order of magnitude, actually. We spend more on health care, our system, than the entire GDP of Germany, the fourth most popular, most productive nation on Earth. We spend on a system, which doesn't work. Namely, people can't get care. The care they get is variable.

You just mentioned before we went on air that you were scheduled for something to be done. And then, oh, by the way, the insurance company said, nope, can't do it. We're going to have to reconsider this. And meanwhile, you have a condition that should be taken care of. And it can be taken care of if the damned insurance company wouldn't get out of the way. Yeah, yeah.

It's crazy. I had a schedule two days from now on Friday to have an inaugural hernia done. And I've dealt with this for a while now. It's been two months. We've been trying to get this done. It's been scheduled for a month. And I got a call two days before. and they said that the hospital they were going to do the surgery at,

my doctor is covered under my insurance, but the hospital they were doing the surgery at, it wasn't, didn't take my insurance and they couldn't get an exemption. So now they have to reschedule me another two weeks out, and I have to go to a different hospital for the surgery. Yeah, which means either that you go to a different doctor or the doctor goes to a hospital that he isn't used to operating at. Either way, it's not optimal.

care. Yeah. I just find it insane. So your book is how to empower patients, how to advocate for yourself, I believe. Is that a good... No, no, that's, it's much bigger than that, if I may. It is not how to advocate for yourself. It is that the only way the health care system is going to work is if we the patients, I like to call us, namely all Americans, we the people. I like to call we the patients because I don't care what your skin color is or what your political affiliation is, all of us sooner or later need health care. We have that in common. That's why I call us we the patients. So the only way this system is going to work is when we, the patients, take control of our money. And when we have control of our money, we can then control the health care we get. But the

problem is there's a third-party payment system and basically the government is in charge because all the insurance companies follow insurance federal regulations so the bottom line is we the patients don't control our health care or our money and the doctors don't can't do what they know best for the patient because they got to follow somebody else's rules rather than their own judgment My solution to this, you know, in sort of my elevator speech, my solution to this is we need to take control of our money. And it is actually a fairly easy way to do that. And I will tell you right now, the way to do that is to stop employer-supported, so-called health benefits or health insurance, and give that money. which last year for each American, 157 million Americans, was $28,9655.

So we say, that is, Dr. Ginn and I, he's an economist, I'm obviously a medical doctor. We say, hey, why don't we just give that money instead of to the insurance company? We give that money to the employees. So Chris, who I assume works for whoever you work for, gives you. you that 28,000 or whatever it is that they're that they're now transferring and you can go shop for your care shop for your own insurance and suddenly now here's the key suddenly half of all health care spending does not go to care it goes to regulations and insurance process and so forth. So if we controlled our money, we wouldn't have to pay $2.4 trillion of health care spending

that produces no care. Yeah. Yeah. How do we make that work? Is that something has to be legislated? It's actually, again, this is fairly simple. It's, it's, we've been writing with Dr. Ginn and I have been writing about this for a while and people are starting to pick up on it. Let me explain. It's really kind of simple. 1942, right after Pearl Harbor, we are at war, obviously, a declaration of war on December 7th. Well, it's actually December 8th, but anyway, we're at war. We now are in a wartime economy, and the only way we can do what we need to do to actually win the war is to control the economy. So Congress passed wage freezes and price freezes so that wages couldn't go up. Prices would remain stable and the government

could control, which they needed to do during war, control the economy supply and demand. Now, after the war is over, all of those wage and price freezes were repealed except one. And the one that was not repealed was the advantage that an employer gets, the tax advantage, by, quote, giving you, paying for health insurance. But those are really wages that you earn. It's just that you don't see them in your paycheck. So all we need to do is say, okay, let's transfer the tax advantage of employer-supported health insurance to the employee and give them the money. Yeah.

That's it. yeah now would they would if you did that would they would we have to put in a special trust I mean yes now would we have to make sure they don't go spend it on like you know limbs or you you're good Chris because you're exactly right right now the HSAs and there are three different types of HSAs and they're actually in the book but I won't go into that because it's not worth your listeners time the bottom line is they all have rules restrictions use it or lose it, and a limit on how much you can put in, which is $8,000, and that's the maximum of a certain form of an HSA. We say, Dr. Ginn and I say, again in the book, okay, just

eliminate all of them and pass a no-limit HSA. There's no limit on how much you can put in, like $28,965. You can put in more if you want to, if you have the money. There's no limit in time. You can roll it over to next year or the year after. You can use it for yourself or your child or if, you know, you wanted to be a good Samaritan and your neighbor needed something. You can use it as long as you use it, tax-free for medical expenses. That's a no-limit HSA. So the combination of transferring the money into 28 grand as an average, for some, it's more, considerably more. If you make more, you pay more to the insurance companies.

Anyway, put that money in a no-limit family HSA, and that's it. So what's the likelihood we can get this to happen or what needs to happen? Do enough patients need to stand up and say enough for this bullshit or not taking any more? Sorry to answer that. I do know the answer. And the answer is there are all sorts of people, very powerful, special interests, and you can all name them, and in a minute, I'm going to include the doctors temporarily, who would be opposed to this because, A, it's different, B, a lot of people will lose

money. C, a lot of bureaucrats, especially federal ones, will lose their jobs because we don't need them anymore, because we don't need all those federal regulations. So, will there be opposition? The answer is huge opposition. What needs to happen is the following. And that's the reason we wrote the book, the reason we wrote this paper that came out from the Americans for tax reform and went to Congress and about two weeks ago, the whole point is this won't happen, this cure, this fix that will work. This won't happen if we don't have a big million people groundswell of just average Americans who read the book and then say, you know, that's right. They're right. I want to control my money and my health care.

And I need to get that done. Well, how do you get it done? I don't know about you, but I have literally never talked to any of my federal senators or congresspeople in my entire life. However, like so many Americans, I know who my state legislator is. I'm sure you know who your person is. You see him at the grocery store. You know who the heck he is, especially in Texas. which is where I am.

And my point is, we need a groundswell of millions of Americans who go to their state legislators and say, hey, we want this. We want to control our money. We want the government to get, the third parties to get out of the doctor's chair. And the way to do that is for you, state legislator, to lobby the federal people to change the system. because at the current time, we are going to go broke, we, the United States, are going to go broke probably before we, the people are going to go broke, trying to get care.

Yeah, it is crazy. I've lived a pretty healthy life all my life, and I've never really been exposed to the health care system. Good for you. I've been really lucky. As I have to tell you, as I say to my medical students over and over, If you want to live a long, healthy life, choose your parents very carefully. Choose your parents very carefully.

And, yeah, I had, at one time I had four grandmothers or four matriarchs alive in my family, up to my great-grandmother. So it appears I might have their side of the family's genetics. Good for you. But yeah, the last time I had of this, I was in surgery, was when I was 22, I'm 57 now. and this is my first foray. I've never been to the emergency room since I was a kid.

Those kid things. And so this is my first foray into the shit show. And it's been a shit show. It's, you know, it's, you got to go meet with this person to, what is it, the primary care provider. Yeah, that's right. You got to go through this whole process. I've never had to deal with this ever.

I mean, everybody else is looking at me going, I'll see, you know, dude, this is welcome to the show. Everybody's jealous of you because they've had to deal with the system, and apparently you haven't. Yeah, I haven't. And it's just insane. It's just insane. In fact, I was just reading the note from the doctor, and it's not that the hospital they were going to have the surgery at doesn't take my insurance. It's that they don't take the insurance from the exchange.

So they actually do use Aetna. they just don't use it from the Obamacare ACA exchange. What the fuck? I'm sorry. They've got all these rules that are built into these various contracts. Yeah. And the whole point of the system, I'm sorry to say this, it pains me. The strategy that is used by insurance companies, every one of them, is what we call the 3D strategy, delay, defer and deny.

The longer they don't pay for your care, the longer they hold on to your money, and it's your money, and the longer, and the more money they make, more profit they make by simply holding on to the money. Yeah. And then they just figure you die and they keep your money. It's just crazy. Now, tell us about you. You've been in the field and seeing all this go on for 40 years. Is that correct? actually longer i i a very long story which i will not again waste much of your time with but

i come from a medical family and when i say medical everybody in my family for the last four generations have been doctors so i didn't have much of a choice i actually claim to be the first child raised on the island of manhattan who asked for piano lessons and was turned down because my mother was afraid that i would go into music and you know you know, all of the, my cousins, my father, my grandfather, four uncles, they're all doctors. Anyway, so I became a doctor. Fortunately, I found something that I really liked doing, which was taking care of children with heart disease, and you're going to say, gee, isn't that depressing?

Well, the fact is, when I entered medicine, medical school, the mortality rate for children with congenital heart disease was at least 50%. When I retired, which is just a few years ago, the mortality was less than 2%. So my point is, we have made huge strides and have suddenly been able to fix things, which makes obviously the children better, but also gives me us satisfaction.

I mean, oncologists used to, be the most depressed people in the world, right? Because it couldn't do anything about cancer. Now, now they have treatments for childhood leukemia. We cure breast cancer. We essentially cure, depending on the cell type, et cetera, et cetera. So my whole point is we have made a huge amount of progress, which I have to say people are going to have to pay for when you get chemotherapy for, you know, breast cancer. It's very expensive to make this stuff. to research the stuff and to produce it. So is health care more expensive now than it was in my grandfather's day?

Absolutely. Can we do more and save people? Again, absolutely. Yeah. And I was taking the 40 decades, four decades fighting the system off the description of the book, so I wasn't sure on your timeline there. And so you guys talk about empowering patients. And so basically patients have to say,

you know, from that network movie in the 70s, you know, we're sick and tired of this and we're not going to take it anymore. Yeah, and we're not going to take it anymore, right. You've got to get up and go shout at their doctor or something. Well, they're politicians. Don't shout at the doctor. The doctor is just as frustrated with the system as, quite frankly, as you are. I mean, we get into medicine, and I suppose you can get personal for a second because he asked me to.

We get into medicine, I would say, at least 90% of us. And I include the nurses very much here. We get in for what I call the psychic reward. The fact is, sure, some doctors make a lot of money and a lot of doctors don't. Why do we stay in medicine or go into medicine? Because of what I call the psychic reward. There is nothing that makes me more satisfied in the world than having a baby come in who is blue and we do what we need to do.

We do the right diagnosis and the cath and the surgery and whatever. and we send him home as a healthy normal child who, God willing, is going to live a normal life. That's my payment, and that's the nurse's payment, and that's your surgeon's payment, because I guarantee you he ain't going to get paid a lot from the insurance company, but he's going to feel really good that when Chris Voss walks out of that place, he will no longer be in danger of something bad happening with what your condition is now. Well, it's, it's, I'd like to see this happen. I mean, the rules of this game are just so insane.

Like, if you're, you know, if you, if you, if you can't move to another state, if you have insurance in one state or it's hard to, you know, like my mother has got, you know, retirement insurance that she got from being a teacher for 20 plus years. She can't move. Her insurance is stuck in the state as far as I understand it. I have, I won't say the name because I don't want to get in the legal trouble. I have a very well-known, well-respected insurer who doesn't accept HSAs. Wow. So, hello. We should explain what that is for people that don't know an HSA.

An HSA is what's called a health savings account. We prefer to call it a health spending account. And what we like to have is a no limit. account that is tax-free to the patient, so the patient can go and shop for what we call direct pay medical care. Some people call it concierge care. You can get it both medical care, pediatric care. There are four free market surgical centers here in Texas where if you go there, It's cash on the barrelhead, and quite frankly, the prices range from 10% to the maximum I found of 40% of the insurance charge. In other words, whatever the charge is for the procedure that you need done, if you had this no limit HSA and had, you know, $28,000, $40,000 in the account that you've saved up over the last two or three years, you're healthy, man.

you probably save a hell a lot more than that, you could just pay for it right out of your HSA. Hmm. That would be a thing to do. We've had people on the show that do those private insurance things where they pull money. Have you ever heard of that? Yes.

Yeah. Are those, is that the only problem with that is it's still not the patient controlling the money flow. Oh, okay. The only way that it really works to the patient's advantage is if the patient controls the money flow. Yeah. And it might help if control pricing because, you know, it's so insane, you can't, you can't get like a priceless. Like if I go to McDonald's, I, you know, I can see the prices and I can see. I got news for you. If you work in, as I did for, you know,

40 odd years in university hospitals, I don't know what the prices are, A, because they don't for my services. They don't tell me, B, they have contracts with various different insurers and the insurers negotiate different prices. So depending on wrong, that's a wrong statement, different payments. The price is the price. Okay. I know what the price is. What I don't know is what insurance company A is going to pay because it's going to be a hell of a lot less than my price. And I'll give you a great example. My charge, my price, my charge. To do a cardiac catheter, it's a procedure where you put catheters of small plastic tubes inside of babies, arteries, and veins, and you do things inside the heart.

By the way, while it's moving, not a terribly easy thing to do. You got to spend years and years of training. That's what I did. Anyway, my charge for that in a critically ill newborn baby range from as low as maybe $1,500. If I had to put in a device or use a balloon, could be as much as $7,000 or $8,000. All right, charges $1,500 to, say, $7,000. Medicaid, which is most of my patients, because they're mostly children, they're all children. Medicaid pay its, quote, maximum allowable reimbursement.

You ready? $387. Didn't matter what my charge was. I could charge $10 million. Didn't make any difference. They paid $387, take it or leave it. Wow.

That's crazy, man. You got that right. Yeah. So that's why, as a matter of fact, since we're on this subject for a second, one of the reasons that price transparency, which is a number of the things that Trump has done, I like,

this is one of them that I like, but I don't. And the reason is price transparency only works when the person who sees the price is the person who's paying the price. So, you know, you'll go and look for, you know, in my case, we'll pick on me, cataract surgery, because I'm old and I'm going to need cataract surgery pretty soon. Meanwhile, I can go and look at three or four doctors and say, okay, what is your charge for cataract surgery? surgery, and their offices can answer that question. They won't tell me how much he gets paid. So price transparency doesn't change my behavior.

And so when they pass and they have, price transparency for hospital charges, so you go and you see the hospital charge for cataract surgery of, say, $4,000. Okay? and then you go to another hospital and the charge is $3,000. But it's not my money that I'm spending. It's other people's money. So why should I go to the cheaper hospital? So price transparency will work only when the consumer, also known as the patient,

actually is a person who's spending his or her money. And the way to get that done is back to what I call the transfer. which is, hey, employers, 157 million Americans have employer-supported health insurance, private insurance. Give that money to the employee and give it to them tax-free as long as he uses it for medical expenses, put it in a no-limit HSA, and suddenly you will watch prices drop, you will watch doctors, much happier because they don't have to go through all the hassle of insurance, and trying to get payment. I mean, the average time that a doctor gets paid

after he submits his bill is between nine and 11 months. Wow. Excuse me. That's crazy, man. Yeah, this is why a lot of doctors left the business is because it's just trying to get paid as a nightmare. People think that, and here I'm going to disagree with you. Yes, money is a factor, but the real factor

is what I referred to earlier, which is the psychic reward. As long as you, Dr. X or Nurse Y, can't use your best judgment, you know what that patient needs. Yeah. Okay? But the pharmacy benefit manager says, nope, you want to give him drug X? Sorry, that's too expensive. You have to use drug Y. Well, wait a minute.

I'm the doctor. I know what's best for the patient. And by the way, we tried drug-wide three years ago, and it didn't work in this patient. Sorry, doctor, you have to use what they call fail-first therapy, which means they tell you what drug you can give your patient, not your judgment. So if you're asking why so many doctors are leaving, why medical school applications are down, why there are something like 300,000 open nurse slots. Maybe it's more than that, but it's in the hundreds of thousands.

Nurse slots are unfilled. Why? Because people go into health care despite all the crap in the system because of the psychic reward. Well, when you can't get a psychic reward, when you have to follow somebody's rules, some bureaucrats rules on how to take care of your patient, you don't get the psychic reward, then the hell with it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, if it wasn't, you know, I can't do surgeries and I can't deal with blood and guts

and all that sort of stuff. So God bless the people that can, because if they're all like me, we'd be screwed. So is there, you know, you've been studying this and researching a lot. Of course, you've lived the decades of it. Is this the best way to get changed? made or are there any other venues that we can take and pursue? Unfortunately, I'm going to say, no, this is the only way because, let me explain. People talk about, well, the system in the United Kingdom.

I went to school in England for a while, so I know their system actually quite well. My second mother, I had two mothers. Mom was British, and I could tell you stories. Actually, it's a great story in the book about her and trying to get care through their national. health service. Anyway, people talk about systems in Singapore or in France, in Germany, in the United Kingdom. The problem with all of them is that all of them are government control of the money. Now, you're going to say, well, wait a minute, it's insurance companies. Yeah, it is insurance companies, except for the fact that they follow the rules both in terms of payment as well as

benefits that the feds established so in fact even though the insurance company is the one that's giving you a hard time they're getting away with it because of the insurance process rules that come down from washington so my answer when you said well is there some other way every other way that anybody's ever suggested involves government control of the money And so that's why we, and by the way, this book was written by a medical doctor, who I also happen to have an MBA. Matter of fact, I'll tell you why that's interesting. And a PhD economist who actually, he was the chief economist for the Office of Management and Budget, so he knows the federal system damned well. That's why he was so important as a co-author of this.

I'll tell you one other thing because you wanted to get personal for a minute and it relates to this whole process. I was a chief of cardiology at the University of Chicago, a very prestigious place, this huge budget. I thought, you know, this is this great institution. They call themselves the Harvard of the Midwest. And I thought I could make the system responsive to patients. example. I wanted evening office hours. You know, there are a lot of people who have

both mother and father work and somebody's got to take off work to bring the kid to see me. So I said, well, let's have evening hours to help the patients. No, you can't do that because we're going to have to pay the nurses double time if we

have. I want a human to answer the telephone. I've got some mother who just got told by the pediatrician that the kid's got a heart murmur. Now, it's probably nothing, but she thinks her child's going to die. She wants to talk to a human. Okay? Nope. You got to use the phone tree, Dr. Waldman. I'm sorry. I wanted to buy some stuff for my faculty. No, you can't do that. I went, well, wait a minute. Aren't I the chief of cardiology? Aren't I in charge of the budget? No, sir. Actually, it's the hospital

that's in charge of the book. Oops. So I figured, okay, it's my problem. I was not a good leader. I didn't know how to work the system. Okay? So I went back at the age of 55 to business school and got my MBA figuring,

okay, now I can work the system. Wrong. The fact is, I can't work the system because the system is structured to slow down care, to slow down a payment, and to basically elevate the number of people who are health care workers that don't provide care. In the book, we mentioned this,

and it's actually what I call the key statistic that will tell you why healthcare doesn't work in the United States. Between 1970 and 2020, which is 50 years, which is basically the old time that I was practicing medicine, the supply of U.S. doctors increased 100%, namely it doubled, okay? At the same time, over those 50 years, the supply of non-clinical health care workers, that is bureaucrats, agents, lawyers, consultants, et cetera, et cetera, people who don't deliver care.

they increased by 4,400 percent. Wow. Excuse me, but taxpayers have to pay for all those people who don't deliver care. So that's where half of all health care spending goes to things that have nothing to do with actual medical care. That's $2.4 trillion last year. And so as a physician, I sit in my chair and I salivate going, imagine how much care we could give the American people if we had another $2.4 trillion to provide care.

Yeah, that would make quite a difference. Yeah. The waste is just insane. We've had doctors on the show, and I think they were either attorneys or they were doctors, but I'm pretty sure they were doctors. I don't know, I'd have to go look. There's a number of people we've had on the show over the years,

2400 shows. And basically they were saying that the language they see in contracts now that are coming out of insurance company for insurance coverage are designed, are just filled with all sorts of escape clauses to avoid paying and deny delay. Remember I told you, delay defer and deny. That is the strategy that makes profit for the third parties and slows down the ability for patients to get care. do you feel that do you feel as a doctor that patients uh that Medicare health care is a right is a human right no forgive me then now you touched on a very vital subject the answer is no for a very simple reason health care is my personal professional services if it's your right then you can tell me uh that you have to get i have to get i have

to give you care and I can't say no I've become a slave oh yeah okay what happened to freedom what happened to freedom so the answer is anybody who says health care that is the professional work of a nurse or a doctor or a therapist is my right means that the the doctor nurse or therapist is my slave. Wow. That is crazy, man. That is crazy. Welcome to 2025.

And so we need as many people to read this book and become active in making sure that they don't, you know, we take our pitchforks down to the politician's office and say demand change, I guess, legislatively. I would love. It's love it if, by the way, 50% of the proceeds from the book is going to Canine Companions for Independence. It's a, I don't know if you know the organization, but they provide service dogs for our vets. And I think it's an awesome service. My point is, I want millions of people to read this book. And so people are going to say, well, you want to make money on it.

frankly, I would give it away if they would guarantee to read it, but since people don't value stuff that's free, I want people to pay for it. Now, having said that to sort of follow up on what you just said, I would love it if 20 million Americans read this book because if they did, they turn around and say, hmm, yeah, I'm going to pick up the phone and talk to my state rep and say, hey, read this book. This is what I want for health care. I want to control my care. I want to control my money. And frankly, you do too. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. It's, I think it'll be better. I mean, as long as people can't spend it on rims and Target, I think. Hey, if you want to take the money and spend it on a 50-inch TV. Blow it up your nose. Okay. Or, God forbid. then let you go fight with the IRS because I don't I don't want a CMS that centers for Medicare

and Medicaid. I don't want them to control the no limit HSA. The only way it should be controlled, there shouldn't be medically allowable expenses. All you've got to do is prove to the IRS that that 50-inch TV, that new car that I bought with my HSA money, well, you know, I needed it for medical purposes. And if you can make that case successfully, then more power to you. But I don't think so. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy.

So give people the final pitch out as we go out to order up your book and your dot-coms, wherever you want people to search for you on the internet. Well, they can find me at www.deen. That's Dean with an E. Waldman. But when the website is up, which is next month, Empowerpatients. Info is the place to find. Read this silly little book that's easy to read. There are a lot of really human stories in it that will make you laugh or sometimes cry.

and make your voice heard. That's what I want your listeners to come away and say, hmm, you know, this guy Waldman may be crazy, but, you know, he makes some sense. And I better read that book and, you know, if not for me, for my children. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

You know, this needs to change. It just keeps getting worse. Yep. And I know that we, there are issues with, you know, amount of doctors coming into the system. There's a, evidently there's going to have a shortage of doctors and nurses if there aren't already. Oh, no.

There's a huge shortage now and it's only going to get worse. Jesus. And that means the costs are going to go up and. Well, it also means the weight times are going to go up. Wow. Wow. I picked the wrong time to get old. Hey, you're healthy.

Don't complain. I am healthy. The surgery I'm having is for a hernia that I self-induced by going to the gym to try and be healthier and the irony is just exquisite it's just it's one thing if you have so i shouldn't complain i i shouldn't complain this is the first time in 50s in 35 years or something i'm going into the hospital so i shouldn't complain i've had no major events i've lived a really great life um and uh yeah i shouldn't complain but uh yeah it's kind of interesting maybe maybe we'll maybe we'll figure out a way to make this all work and

we'll raise our voices. There is a way to make it work and this is it. Thank you very much, Dr. Waldman, for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. My pleasure. Nice talking to you. Pleasure to talk to you as well. And thanks for our audience for tuning in. Order the book, wherever fine books are sold. Empower patients. Two doctors cure for healthcare out May 22nd, 22, and 85. And people, let's get motivated to fix things, politics, health care and shit.

Maybe we can skip some episodes of The Bachelor or the Kardashians for a fucking change. And, you know, like, who gives a shit what's going on with Taylor Swift? Maybe we should, like, fix the world. And then we can worry about the other shit later. That's just my opinion. Thanks for everyone for tuning in. And Taylor Swift's a nice gal. And that's all I'll say about, I'm not going to say anything about the Kardashians.

Anyway, go to goodreads.com, fortunate is Chris Voss. LinkedIn.com, Forteousus, Chris Voss, one of the TikTok. and give a shit about the world you live in people make a difference thanks for tuning in be good each other stay safe we'll see you next time that should have us out great