The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Empowering Pet Owners: Bridging Gaps in Veterinary Care with Petlovers United

Episode Date: October 16, 2025

Empowering Pet Owners: Bridging Gaps in Veterinary Care with Petlovers United Petlovers-united.com About the Guest(s): Dr. Pam Johnson is a distinguished veterinarian with over 30 years of experience. Based in Georgia, she has made notable strides in the field by transforming an American Animal Hospital Association certified hospital from zero to a $10 million enterprise. After selling her hospital in 2020, Dr. Johnson ventured into establishing an online pet information business aimed at educating and empowering pet owners. Her initiative, Pet Lovers United, advocates for stronger relationships between pet owners and veterinarians, and she is involved in various nonprofit endeavors supporting wildlife, veterans, and education. Episode Summary: Join Chris Voss as he welcomes veterinary expert Dr. Pam Johnson on this engaging episode of the Chris Voss Show. With over three decades of diverse experiences in veterinary practice, Dr. Johnson now spearheads Pet Lovers United, an online platform dedicated to bridging gaps between veterinarians and pet owners. Throughout the episode, Dr. Johnson shares compelling stories and offers insights into veterinary best practices, her mission to enhance the human-animal bond, and the importance of having educated pet owners. The discussion takes listeners through Dr. Johnson’s expansive career journey, her transition from operating a thriving veterinary hospital to establishing an online pet info hub. Key highlights include conversations about advocating for pets, managing veterinary burnout, and innovative approaches to pet care, such as raw diets and holistic veterinary care. Dr. Johnson’s experience emphasizes the necessity of informed pet ownership and the role information accessibility plays in enhancing pet health and lifespan. With an emphasis on quality of life, economic euthanasia, and pet advocacy, this episode provides invaluable advice for pet lovers everywhere. Key Takeaways: Dr. Pam Johnson emphasizes the importance of informed pet ownership and collaboration with veterinarians for optimal pet care. Pet Lovers United offers resources to educate pet owners on topics ranging from basic pet care to managing chronic diseases and end-of-life decisions. Effective communication and understanding between veterinarians and pet owners can prevent unnecessary euthanasia and enhance pets' quality of life. Dr. Johnson's initiatives extend support to various nonprofits, addressing economic barriers in veterinary care and supporting scholarships for children of service members. The discussions highlight the need for compassionate, informed decision-making in veterinary care to enhance the human-animal bond. Notable Quotes: "Our role is to educate, empower, and collaborate with pet owners, not to dictate what they should do." "It's not about just extending quantity of life, but to extend quality and quantity together." "Whether it's nutrition or dental care, there are actions we can take to add extra years to a pet’s life." "We're aiming to bridge the gap between veterinarians and pet owners to improve communication and empathy." "How do you define quality of life? It's so different for each individual." Resources: Pet Lovers United: petloversunited.com Dr. Pam Johnson on LinkedIn Facebook Groups: Pet Lovers United, Pet Care Education/Questions Explore these enlightening insights and much more in the full episode of the Chris Voss Show. Stay tuned for more fascinating discussions with experts from diverse fields, and deepen your knowledge on topics that matter.

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Because you're about to go on a moment. monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks, is Voss here from thecrisvoss Show.com. Oh, ladies, gentlemen, they're the onlyest things that makes official. Welcome to the big show, as always. For 16 years of 2,500 episodes, we're being in the Chris Voss show. And we're just going to keep doubling and tripling and quadripling that,

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Today, amazing young lady, we're going to be talking about her work and some of the things she's doing to help pets, help pet owners, help veterans, and different things like that. She is a licensed veterinarian in the state of Georgia and has over 30 years of experience. She operated and owned an American Animal Hospital Association Certified Hospital for 30 years. She brought it from literally no value to selling it for over $10 million. She served on the Medical Advisory Board of a large veterinary corporation, and now she has an online pet owner information business. They inform, educate, and empower pet owners to take optimal care of their pets and how to have better relationships with their veterinarians. her long-term goal is to have a positive influence on the veterinary profession and raising public

interests in the benefits of a human-animal bond. Her backstory is one of challenges she overcame to live a very happy and successful life that she's happy to share. She'd love for others to learn what everyone is, what she's experienced and realizes that the right mindset you can overcome adversity. Welcome to show, Pam. How are you? I'm doing great, Chris.

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me on this show, this podcast. I've listened to several episodes, and I'm just frankly enamored to be here. So thank you. Thank you. We're enamored to have you because we love animals, we love dogs, and we love healthy animals. I've had about four so far, and three of them are sitting across from me in a box of ashes. So we love them to be healthy.

So give us your dot-coms. Where do you want people to find you on the innuels? The primary is pet lovers dash united.com. We are on Facebook as well. I started out as veterinary mastermind.com. You can also find me under my name, Dr. Pam Johnson. It's such an unusual name. You shouldn't have any difficulties finding me on Facebook.

But I think that it's important for me to mention that when I sold my hospital back in 2020, I had felt like I had sort of reached this pinnacle or this place. and something was telling me to do more, that I needed to do more. And I kept getting phone calls from people that maybe didn't quite understand what their veterinarian had shared with them, the options that they had. You know, I was raised on a farm, grew up in nature and around animals, and I started out in my first degree was in mass communications, and then I ended up following my true passion, which is veterinary medicine.

And over the years, you shift from just being a technical person into being a leader of people to being a mentor. And then over time, as I mentioned, it got to the point where I felt like we needed to have a bigger ripple. We needed to have a broader reach. And so what I'm trying to do, in short, is bridge the gap between. the veterinarian and the pet owner and help and help both at the same time. It's what do I wish, you mentioned that you had pets.

It's what do I wish you knew, Chris, before you ever came into my office and how much better that collaboration might be, how much better the compliance might be, and how much more confidence and empathy we can have for our pet owners and for the pet owners in terms for the veterinarian as well. And so that's sort of how it came to be. I started a membership program. And we go from A to Z to whether, you know, should you have a pet, to what kind of pet is best for your lifestyle. You know, so often people see a pet like a dog or a cat. And they go, oh, man, that looks cool. I'll go get a Belgian Malinua. And, and, you know, if you live in a Manhattan apartment, maybe that's not the best match. Or a husky. Or a husky.

Moroski, don't get me started on that one. You know, but I think that that's how we end up with so many unwanted pets in this world. But I think that full circle, I'm trying to find a way to give back, not just to my community, because it's also important for you to understand and the listeners to understand that the burnout for veterinary medicine is anywhere from three to five years. They spent $150,000 to $250,000. their education, spend 10, 12, 14 years in school, and then leave it because of burnout. It's highest for suicide rate as well of any perfection. And so what we're trying to do is figure out a way to help both a pet owner as well as the

veterinarian team. And we also, I think I mentioned to you before we started that we have three nonprofits that we're trying to raise money for. one of those is Paisley Paws, and one of the major pillars is helping to reduce economic euthanasia. So in other words, if someone brings it a pet that could otherwise be saved, let's say it swallowed something and needed surgery, and the owners couldn't afford it. Paisley Paws basically goes to try to raise money for those individuals to help prevent

and minimize the economic euthanasias, because that has a pretty broad ripple, as you can imagine. It's bad for the pet, bad for the owners, and it's really bad for the veterinary team as well. The second is the Marine Corps Scholarship Foundation, raising money for children of Marines, particularly those injured or were killed in the line of duty. And the last is basically one that was started by a friend of mine who's an educator. Her name is Kelly Green. She started something called the Kipper Foundation, and it raises money for the underserved in the educational world, children, teachers, even getting them supplies, scholarships, things like that. And so what we're trying to do as a result of this organization is educate pet owners

from A to Z, all the way to recognizing pain, understanding quality of life, even to bereavement. And so with that, we're trying to make sure that we, again, don't go in the path of what I dare say our human cohorts are doing, which is becoming more of a transactional relationship as opposed to one of a collaborative, empathic, compassionate relationship, if that makes sense to you. Yeah. I mean, we need more of this. There's, you know, I've talked about this a lot on the show over the years with people like yourself and how I learned to advocate with veterinarians for my dogs.

I've got a lot of stories about, you know, some vets. You know, everyone's busy, I guess, whatever. But some vets who wanted to put my dogs down and they would have, and because they, because of whatever, they're pious, I suppose, maybe prejudiced. They, my dogs lived for years after that because I just shopped around to three different doctors, got three different opinions. And the one doctor who's the one who going, no, you don't need to put them down. The other two were going to you put them down.

I end up living for years, I think five years at one point. And so we've talked about this a lot in the show. It's really important to advocate. And I like how, I guess some of this you mentioned in the beginning of the show, you set this up to educate cat and dog owners, animal owners, so that when they come to you as a vet, they have a good working knowledge that they can maybe help advocate for the pet. Is that a good analogy? It is. It is. Not all, not all anesthetic protocols are the same. Not all surgeries are the same. And not all breeds, ages, all of those things are not the same. And so I think that very often we,

to your point, we don't advocate well for our pets and the pet owners as veterinarians. And so That's one of the thing. And sometimes it's maybe a lack of experience as a veterinarian, not necessarily, you know, apathy. But I think that educationally, when we graduate from veterinary school, we don't necessarily understand the nuances of emotional intelligence and how to discuss options without judgment. And, you know, it's a highly emotionally charged. environment and not a lot of people are or not all people i should say are ready to deal with that in one room you're you're having to to make you know very difficult decision with a client that you've known for 10 or 12 years and in the next room you're having to talk with a new puppy or kitten owner

and and that shift is not always easy to make and that comes with time comes with experience and that kind of thing. But you raise a good point. I just had a conversation the other day with someone states away that they were basically told to just take their dog home and pick a day. And I said, I'm not sure whether that's the right answer or not, but I think I would seek out other opinions. And we worked together to find the right veterinarian for her. The dog ended up having surgery. It had something called partial laryngeal paralysis, which makes it. difficult for them to breathe when they're when they get older and and that dog is doing really really well you know so i just you know it's it's those types of things that that just compel me

to to keep moving forward and to keep doing the things that we're doing and to keep keep growing i don't want this to just be uh u.s based i wanted to be international i you know i'm excited about about the opportunities to both educate pet owners as well as veterinarians and veterinary teams. So that's where we're headed. Hopefully we're headed in the right direction. Yeah, I've got a lot of stories. The one that sticks out to me and the stuck out to me a lot was there was a time where one of my dogs had gotten anal sac cancer. And that I went in, the doctor, you know, stuck his finger in there and felt around.

He goes, it's probably filled with cancer in there. and, you know, take her home for three days and we'll call the ball. That was it. And she was like 14 or something at this point. They're like, look, you know, dogs had great run. I always hate it when they say that. Usually the problem that I do have with doctors consistently is the older doctors. They're very stuck in the mud about their rudimentary way they've been operating for a lot of years.

Sometimes they're on autopilot. I usually run into the worst bed manners from them and everyone else. The people that I find are the most innovative or actually the young people. Isn't that interesting? So I went home just crushed because we went from just immortality to your dog's dead in three days. And out of that, I sat down and I said, what can I, if she's got a death sentence, she's going to die, is there anything I can do? And so I went on the internet, which sounds like a dumb thing to do because, you know, they've seen the internet. And I found raw, raw feeding and raw meat and taking sugar out of her diet and raising high fats and stuff like this.

And I found different places that have been utilizing it for their things. And I was like, and I said, you know, talk to the doctor. He goes, oh, you're going to blow out her kidneys and liver. She's already compromised. She's got, you know, her blood is filled with calcium to try and destroy things. You know, I learned a lot about what cancer does and how it kills. and and so I canceled taking her in to do and I'm go I go we're going to try this for a week like what the fuck you know if you got a death sentence what do you have to lose right put her on a

raw diet cut out all the sugar treats and she had stopped eating by the way that was kind of one of the signs and then of course you could see this fucking growing on the back and she'd stopped eating if she was drinking like a fish to offset the calcium in her bloodstream and so I put her on the raw diet started feeding her raw hamburger meat you know the big nasty roll bullshit you get. And cut out of sugar and fat, she lived for a year and three quarters and stunned every veterinarian that saw her. And I've got a million cases like that that I helped with dogs that were being put down and we brought them back with a raw diet. And in the end, when I went in, she started collapsing. And I'm like, okay, after I think it was a year and a half

or so, she started collapsing and her legs were giving out in the back. And I'm like, okay, the cancers finally hit the legs. I scheduled to put her down. She was really suffering trying to walk around. And of course, the golf ball size thing was growing every day. And so I went into the doctor. I paid the money. I signed the forms. And, you know, I was like, okay, she's suffer enough. We've, you know, we've gotten a year and a half of this. And the doctor looked at her and he goes, I know that you are at this moment that you want to end this for her. But we'd like, to look at her if you don't mind. And I'm like, please do. Yeah. Please do. And so they took her in the back and they came back and they go, she has severe arthritis. It's not the cancer that's making

her she can't walk. She has severe arthritis. And we think we can bring her back from the arthritis and, you know, making so she can walk around again. And, you know, she was still eating and running and coming to me once we put her on the raw diet and very active. And, but he said these haunting words to me. Sorry for the long lead up to this. But he said these haunting words to me. He goes, we think that she can have an extended life, but I realize that this may be too much for you to handle. So if you need to call it, we're not going to judge you on it and we'll do it today. And I sat there looking and I'm going, there are people in the world that it's just too hard for them. And I get it, man. It's too hard. You're raising kids. You're chasing families. You're

to do a job. There's, there's some people that they call that ball because it's just too hard for them. And I get it. But I was like, no, and let's just try this. And she lived for another three or four months. Is that the same doctor? No, I went to a different doctor. Okay. Okay. Because it didn't sound the same. Yeah, I went to, I went to several different doctors with her. I put her on to her. That wasn't the first time I put her on tour. But, so that was this example. And it was kind of interesting to me how it was said to me, you know, your dog can live, but if you're not ready. And, you know, something you said to me at the beginning of the podcast, you were talking about how, you know, helping people understand how to process this, helping people maybe emotionally connect with it, helping them not give up, maybe, I don't know.

I think it's so, you nailed it. I'm so glad you told that story because it's going to reach a lot of people. And I think that it's not our job or our role to tell someone. what they should do. It's our role to educate. It's our role to empower them. It's our role to collaborate with them and coach. But it's not our role to tell you as a pet owner what you should or shouldn't do.

And how you define quality of life is so different from someone else. You just mentioned that. And so those are the conversations that we should be having in that room with the client. And it's just, it's such a powerful thing. And very often there's, there's three to six options in any given circumstance. And that's our role. We should be talking about all of those different options and then having a conversation about how that feels and what that looks like and what's realistic and what's unrealistic and what's unrealistic in some cases. But to your point, how do we know if we don't try?

And we're obligated to offer the best medicine that we can. But again, without judging if someone is not in a position to do, you know, to do the extra things to keep them here. So, you know, it's a fine line that we walk, but it's a very, very important one. And I think sometimes veterans are concerned about, you know, not blowing out someone's wallet. I've been a lot of veterinarians that are like, like the one. The one time she, this was years earlier, she'd gotten this lump right here on her neck, and it was growing, and it had become quite large. And so I took her into a doctor.

He goes, she's 14 years old. We can do the x-rays. We can do all the shit. But she's 14 years old. Come on, dude. Like, why make her suffer through all that? Call the ball. It's clearly probably cancer.

Call it. I think she was maybe 13 or 12 at that time. And she lived to be almost 17. and so I was like I was like just wrecked and he was trying to save me money he was trying to you know make the dog not hurt so I went to another doctor that doctor told me the same thing all old guys so I'm an old guy so I can throw shit and and then my friends told me about this Chinese doctor this is in California and this guy was from China and he had the worst bedmanner ever he he was cut and drop

He was sharp as sharp could be. You couldn't understand him half the time. He would take cash. And he would do this weird thing. He'd be like, bring your dog, go make them walk around the room. And I'm like, what the fuck kind of thing is this? I've never, you walk around the room? He goes, I think I know.

And so he told me, he goes, he goes, I think she's going to be fine. He goes, just wait. Don't listen to those other two doctors. And I was like, on what basis of logic are you doing this? You know, and he checked her out and stuff. and you know and then so I went to the other two doctors and I go hey man this guy said this and they're like that guy's a quack you know this guy he he had his license to spend it at one point because he wasn't keeping good records I mean it was literally like going to a back alley doctor

but he had the most yelp reviews the most great things to say about him and everyone said don't just ignore the bed manner and so after a while I woke up on the day before Christmas and she was standing over me in the bed, and she was bleeding out the side of the mouth. And this thing had gotten really big. It was coming, you know, really uncomfortable. And she was bleeding out the side of the mouth. And I was like, okay, fuck this.

Okay, this is what it is. We need to go do the job. So I took her to the Chinese doctor. He was, nope, she's going to be fine. I was like, what? And he explained to me that she had something he was suspicious of, where she got an infection or growth in between the tissue. and it wasn't responding to penicillin or any drugs

because it was between the tissues. And I looked this up and I'm like, that's a fucking thing. And yeah, it wouldn't respond to any sort of medications, any penicillin, it wouldn't respond to anything. It was something between the tissues. And all it needed was to explode so that it could get air into it and we could, you know, clean it and heal it and stuff. Yeah, she was fine.

They almost took, I think, five years off of my life of my dog with that. Yeah, you just, you don't know unless you take a deeper look, period, you know. And so, you know, it's one of the things that I always tell young veterinarians don't look into their wallet. Don't try to figure out what they can afford and what they can afford. Let them do that. But you have an obligation to say, hey, here are all the potential ruleouts, one of those being an abscess, you know, to your point. point and then how do we how do we address that and so it that's these are just powerful stories I'm an animal lover I'm an advocate man I learned the hard way I've been through some I've been

through some I've had four huskies you know you mentioned earlier we're joking I threw that joking about huskies you know huskies there was a ton of people who bought huskies uh during that game of thrones show because they like the wolves in them and they were flooding them back into the to the pet shelters because they you know they're hard to handle you have to know what you're doing and it's not just it's not just husky every every movie that comes out with a certain breed you know that people are going to go get them without without knowing and or understanding you know i think right now the most popular one of the most popular are the french bulldogs and you know you better have another 15 to 20 thousand dollars because they're

You know, they're genetically, they have a lot of challenges. And so that's one of the conversations that I try to have with people is, are you financially prepared to have this pet in understanding what are the potential things that are going to be coming your way with certain purebred dogs? But behaviors, behavior is a big one. Behaviors, you know, when we talk about, you know, relationship building, It's, you know, how do you set people up for success when they first bring the puppy or kitten into the household or integrated into the family or, let's say you want to add another pet to the family. There's a lot of things to think about when you're doing that.

And so you need to have to have to be able to do that with empathy, but you also have to be able to have what I would say, a transparent, honest, open relationship with those clients that are developed. developed over time. And I always tell people, you know, I always feel that your pets are part mine. And, you know, after, you know, taking care of them for 10, 15 plus years, when it comes to the time when you do have to say goodbye, and it's a privilege for me to be, to be asked to be a part of that process. And it's, in my mind, that is the most important thing that we need to get right for our pet owners out there. And we need to make sure that we're communicating all the time about all the what ifs. But you also have to provide, to your point, options. I always encourage getting other opinions. You know, go out there, you know, check out, check out what I'm saying

to you. And then come back to me and let's have another conversation. Or if I had to send them to a university, I would be their advocate, you know, when they were talking to the veterinarians at a university level because a lot of times that the conversations are, let's say, they're difficult but also confusing sometimes because the language, you know, the language that someone that is board certified, they haven't necessarily been in a practice setting. And so communicating with a pet owner is not always as simple as it should be or could be, I would say. So I would try to be an advocate for them in those situations as well. And so now I'm in this place of this online world that I'm not familiar with

and learning about digital marketing and digital space and getting people to know like and trust me in a very different way that I'm accustomed to. too. You know, for me, it's, I love the one on one. Yeah. And now I'm doing the, you know, the one to many. And it's, it's been, I'm calling it identity, flexibility right now, trying to, trying to stretch myself a little bit while hopefully making a difference. And, and you, you just told two stories that, that, that actually even compel me to, to keep going. And so I wanted to say thank you for that because it's those are powerful and i hear those stories by the way chris all the time thank you and you know stories of the human animal bond i've got clients that you know their pets

literally save their lives oh my yeah you know and so it's it's it's one of those things that that people don't understand the power yeah the power in that connection that they that they offer us and and i want to make sure that that we're sharing that you know sharing those conversations and sharing those stories over time. And to your point, the education and advocacy is so important. You know, a lot of people, you know, they'll spend all day looking on the internet for, I don't know, doom scrolling on TikTok or something. The world's going to hell.

But, you know, I've found some of the best data. You do have to go through a lot of it. You've got to stay away from conspiracy nutball stuff. I've been treated by a lot of veterinarians that they're like, you know, you're raw diet. It's not going to work. You're going to blow out their liver. I mean, I've had friends that had dogs that they were liver failure, kidney failure, pituitary gland failure, they were just cooked.

And I'm like, I don't know if this will work for you, but what do you have to lose? And they're like, yeah, the doctor says, is going to blow out their kidneys and the liver. And you're just going to destroy them if we put them on a raw diet. I'm like, so what do you have to lose? You're telling your dog's dead right now and then you need to take it in. By a week, see what happens. You know, as soon as they put Abby on a raw diet, She started eating again.

She started running around. You know, sugar, cancer loves sugar. It hates that. And so if you cut the sugar out, then there's nothing to, it's harder to feed the cancer. And like I said, she looked like the doctors, every time we take her in to get checkup for a year and three quarters, they would just be like, I don't, we don't understand what's going on if you're done. Like how that? You know, nutrition is one of the most powerful things that we as pet owners can do to help our pets live longer. And, you know, we can't put them in a box, right?

We can't put each, every pet has different requirements, different needs in terms of what they need and when they need it and how much they need. And that's something that is very difficult to sometimes convey when you're battling the Internet, which we know is. is less than 20% accurate, you know, most of the time. And so you're, you're preaching to the choir right now. I'm a big nutrition advocate. And I think that there are two things that I would mention that I think will shorten or lengthen a pet's life, that things that we can control. One is nutrition, and the other is, believe it, is nutrition slash their weight.

You know, OPECity shortens their lives by up to two. years. But the other is dental disease. And we can do something about that as pet owners. And that's one of the things that if you're, you know, wanting to add extra years to their life, then pay attention to their nutritional needs and trust, you know, find someone that you can have a trusted relationship with and have a conversation about your pet specific needs, whether it be nutrition, dental care, whether it's pain management, physical therapy, those kinds of things. Just, you know, if they have a cruciate ligament tear, you know, there's three to six

different surgeries depending on, and that's a conversation that needs to be had in that exam room. They need to understand these are your options. These two or three might be the best options, but they're not the only option. option for your pet. We see a lot of cruciate ligament tears, and so that's why I say that. Yeah. The, you know, diet is so important in the Facebook groups that I'm in for dogs and huskies. You know, you'll see these people that'll be like, yeah, my dog is chewing his paws and chewing his elbows and scratching and his skin is dry and he's really miserable and happy. I think

he's dying. What's going on? And they're like, are you feeding him grocery store dog food? And they're like, yeah, we're feeding them pedigree and, uh, or whatever, you know, uh, and, you know, the cheap, that cheap $3, $3.50 pound bag of dog food that has frank and God knows what's in it. You know it. You're, you're, you're helping me. You're helping my cause. I appreciate that.

I'm going to take this opportunity to say that, you know, a lot of times people assume that it's the food that's causing the allergies. And the reality is. is, again, despite what the Internet says, about 90% of the time, it's a condition called adopi. And adopi is environmental allergies. And when I read online about all these cases and people saying, oh, well, they're allergic to this, allergic to that, well, those allergy tests that are very good, by the way, but they're not good for testing for food allergens. And so it's a conversation that you have to have with that pet owner that we need to look at the external allergies and how they're affecting your pet.

And then how does nutrition play a role in that, which it does, which it absolutely does. But it's important to understand that the secondary bacterial infections, the secondary yeast infections, those all make your pet itch and lick their feet. And so there are things that we can do that are even at home. home that can help in in very big ways to try to minimize the transition through that, what we call the skin barrier for those environmental allergies. And I live in the southeast, so, you know, that was probably 85% of what I saw when I had my work in mortar. Yeah.

Wow. You know, and I referenced earlier the dogs that had, that were at the wall, we put them on the raw diet and they came back. I never lost a dog off the raw diet. I've lost a dog because the person gives up and goes, I don't trust this. I'm going to just do the thing. And I have to be empathetic and go, okay, they're, you know, they're making that choice

because it's too hard, but it doesn't have to be. Now, I'm looking at your website. Let's talk about some of the things you've got here on your offering. I see the tears. There's, I think, silver paw, golden paw, and diamond paw. Tell us how these work and people can interact with them. Thank you for asking. So we started out with something at a very basic level.

We wanted it to be accessible to all. And so the first tier offer is involves basically pre-recorded videos that I've done that take you all the way from the, again, before you ever get a pet through midlife, through specific conditions all the way to end a life and bereavement. We have a digital library full of e-books, PDFs on top 10 this, top 15 this, questions you need to ask your veterinary if you have this situation, those kinds of things. Then we have a paid monthly newsletter along with a free weekly newsletter that come, you know, that we put out every Saturday. The second level takes that up. We have twice a month roundtable discussions where I'll pick a topic. Let's say, I think last time we did one on GDV, which is gastric dilatation and voluilus, or bloat, if you've ever heard of that, which is very life-threatening and an emergency. When they eat a meal, their stomach twists, it usually happens in barrel, deep-chested dogs and usually older.

And the air can't go up, it can't go down. They end up having to have surgery to repair it, and it is an emergency. And so certain breeds like Huskies can fall into that category, but German Shepherds, boxers, those types of breeds, any dog can get it. The garbage eaters. We talk on those topics for about 30 minutes. And then we open the floor up for live Q&A. And the owners can bring any questions that they want to the floor.

They can bring their pet in. We can evaluate gate analysis. We can talk about their current situation. We can talk about how to plan for the future, things like that. So whatever's bothering them in that moment. And so we do that twice a month. And they also have access to me in terms of email. If they have a, let's say, a non-emergent question,

we will respond to that within 48 hours. And then the third layer, of course, is much more. much more of me. So I'll take x-rays, or radiographs, I'll take their lab work, their lifestyle. We'll go through a full analysis and talk about, you know, what do they need right now? And then again, how do we plan for the future? How do we preemptively slow down arthritis, you know, depending on the breed that we're talking about? What are, you know, taking, what I would say is taking a holistic approach, including nutrition, including enrichment, environmental enrichment, and then how do we build on that? So it's a much more almost concierge type coaching and advising

that I do with a third layer. We're actually considering a fourth down the road that involves even more. But those are, and then eventually what we want to do is have master classes. So where we focus on the top 10 or 15 disease processes. You know, you mentioned cancer or neoplasia and how to address those things. And it's not about just extending quantity of life to your point. But my whole saying is let's extend quality and quantity. And, you know, we want to, we want to lengthen and strengthen the human animal bond. And so what are the ways that we,

can do that together. And it's just a, it's a, I don't know, it's very enriching. I learn something every day, Chris, every day. The teacher is the best student. Yes, yes. Usually, you learn everything. Now I see on here you have, you can download a dog pain checklist and tips to help your dog. If they're in pain, they're suffering. I recently went and got a hernia surgery done in Las Vegas. And when it came back, the dog was jumping in out of the back seat. And she started having a limp. I think she may have been scraping something when she was in the doggie daycare overnight was in hospital. And, you know, I had to look at it and try and determine, okay, is this something when you see the vet? I did. And it turns out it was just nothing. They gave her some pain

pills and figured she twisted it, jumping out of the car or something. But, you know, knowing, you know, what sort of pain they're in and do I really need to see a vet about this? Or is this something that might be gone in a couple days and it was. This is one of those things. yeah it's and it's you know with something like that you know i think that using your your your your intuition your gut and going okay well let's let's rest it a couple days right um and just like you or i you know and well if it doesn't go away then then hey we know we probably ought to dig a little bit deeper and you're you know you're very proactive with your with your pet care and that's something that i very much promote with with our pet owners and

And if you think it's important, then go get it checked, right? You know, don't, don't wait. But one of the things that we try to do is teach people, okay, what can wait, what's maybe urgent, but can wait, you know, until tomorrow or the next day, or what is an emergency? So that you're left with this a more confident feeling as opposed to the anxiety that's associated with owning a pet, especially a new pet owner right yeah there there's this i you know i wish more people would go to school for pets you know i've i've always joked all my life that before people should be able get married and have children they should have to go to college for two years to you know

fix their psychology anything the any past traumas learn how to be a decent human being to another person uh and then learn how to raise children properly and but you know that's never going to happen because people just love winging it. It's the same thing with dogs and cats and animals. You know, people, I made that mistake when I got my first Husky. I was way in over my head, and I really just wished I could have sat down with myself and said, you should have researched what you were getting into and why this dog behaves the way it was. Because I couldn't figure out why it wasn't like other dogs that I'd had when I was a child.

And Huskies, you know, they're their own freaking person. Yes, they are. Yes, they are. And that's actually one of the things that I love doing is coaching people on, okay, let's talk about your lifestyle, let's talk about where you live, let's talk about the space that you live in, let's talk about the acreage or lack thereof that you have in the time that you have. If you're working a 10-hour day or you're traveling a lot, you know,

you really got to reconsider, do I, you know, should I get a dog or should I even get a cat, even though they require less, they still, you know, it's one of those things that I think, you know, when I see, I hate to say it, but, you know, you see these dog walkers in New York and they're walking 10 or 15 dogs, who's the owner? Right. And, and, and why do we have them in our lives if we, if we can't truly enjoy and embrace that relationship? And that's one of the things that I love, love talking about to people. Or one of the things that I hate the most, the people that just throw the dog in the backyard and leave it there. Yep. And, you know, the whole neighborhood can hear this poor dog barking. It's desperate for attention and love. And, you know, Huskies are worse. They have to be involved in your life.

They are very family-oriented. But not any dog, you know. You know, you see the dogs that are chained to, you know, some backyard hut. And you're just like, oh, my God. But, yeah, I think education is more important. And, you know, my last husky that we lost last year, we had leukemia, so I had to circumvent learning what that was and how that was and what the deal was and the raw diet and for the very first time didn't help. She did enjoy it, though, so she lived like a queen. So I said, fuck it.

Let's just give her raw meat. And I mean, she's going to live like a princess for the next eight months or 10 months she did. But there was a point where I had to start having. hard conversations with the with the vets because I got about I can't remember for it was 2,500 or 3,000 in and in testing and they wanted me to spend I think another big load of 3,000 or something like that and so I had to start having hard conversations to drag the honesty out of them and go what am I buying with this money am I buying time am I buying health or am I just spending $3,000 to find out what you pretty much suspect?

is leukemia right now. You know, because I'm pretty familiar with cancer and how it works. And, you know, she'd had some cancer lumps that we had to have removed. But the leukemia thing, I don't, it doesn't really ball up anywhere, does it? Or does it? I don't know. Generally, generally, no. But the end result is the same.

And I'm, I tend to be, again, it's our job to educate, right? To say, hey, at best, you know, we're going to add this much, this much time. And you as the pet owner have to decide, is this quality? Are we keeping them alive for them? Are we keeping them alive for us? And to me, there's a big, big difference. And I, you know, for me, if I know they're suffering and I know that I can't, that I can't have a long-term effect on that, then for me, it's for my own pets, you know, it's time to make that decision.

because I'd rather, I'd almost, I would rather they leave, at least, at least with what I would call dignity. Dignity and feeling home or feeling things. Yeah, and I don't want them to leave in an emergency situation. That's the worst case scenario when sometimes we wait too long and end up having to go into an emergency situation at an emergency hospital and there they are in a cold room, you know, having to say goodbye. when maybe we could have done it in a much quieter, more peaceful way. So it goes both ways, Chris. It's an interesting dichotomy. Some people, like you said, just can't deal with it.

And other people maybe wait too long. And that's part of our role is to try to help coach and direct, but never, ever, ever to be the one to tell you what you should. should or shouldn't do. Yeah. It's a hard gamble, too. But I'm glad that you guys are making this advocate system. Are these Facebook groups people are joining that are private Facebook groups, or are they,

is there some sort of social network that you have that people can interact with each other or just with you? There is. There is on Facebook. We have a Facebook page, again, it's Pet Lovers Dash United. I think that's, yeah, we just renamed all this. So on Facebook. And then I have one that's pet care education. slash questions that people can join or are asked to join.

It's more of a – I'm still learning these terms, Chris, but I think it's a private Facebook page. And eventually, we want to have them in the community where they can – what we're trying to do is create a safe place where it's a non-judgmental environment where people can ask questions and share, share experience. It's just like you did because people are going to learn from what other people have gained over time with knowledge. We save so many lives with that raw thing diet. So many lives I've saved with it.

It's crazy. And then I've been yelled at by veterinarians that I'm killing animals and stuff. And that's one veterinarian told me that the problem with the raw diet is that there's raw meat in the house on the floor and kids can get in. me, you can spread, and then you got, I don't know, what botulism or something? I was like, what kind of people are you working with, man? What he's talking about is salmonella, but, you know, and I think that, I think that you, like everything else, you've got to be, you've got to do your due diligence, you've got to understand, you've got to make sure that you're doing your research, and, and as with

anything, there's risks and benefits, risks and benefits, you know, if you're doing a surgery, There's the risk versus benefit. Very often, when we're doing an exploratory surgery, we, you know, we would tell the owner, we, you know, this is an exploratory surgery. We don't really know what we're going to find in there. And that's very, very important for the owner to understand before we go in there in a situation where we have no choice. So as long as people understand the significance and the importance of, of, of, of, of, of, what and how we treat our pets and that we're aware, just like, are you familiar with the term

zoonotic disease? No. Zoonotic disease are diseases that can be transmitted from pets to humans. Oh, wow. A lot of, you know, people assume that because we live in the United States, that that, that transfer doesn't happen. Well, it does. And so, you know, if you have children, there's a risk, right?

And so there's hookworms, you know, children go blind every year. They have unnecessary surgery because they've gotten parasites from their pets. And that's a part of our role, too, is to educate the client about here are the risks. And, you know, so I think that we as veterinarians need to do a better job at letting it, telling people, you know, what they need to know. what they need to know to be a good, a good pet owner and to take care of themselves at the same time. So as we go out, give people find a pitch out, where can they find out more on the dot coms, et cetera, et cetera. Again, it's pet lovers dash united.com. And we have a, again, similar on Facebook, it's pet lovers dash united. My name is Dr. Pam Johnson. You can find me on

LinkedIn as well. And more to come. We're excited about this. We're excited about this. literally just relaunched as pet pet lovers united about a week and a half ago all right all right well thank you very much pam for coming the show we really appreciate it thank you and thanks for your stories chris chris chris kris krist i really do appreciate it you got it people should check it out pet lovers dash united dot com thanks to us for tuning in go to goodrease dot com forchis christfoss linkedin dot com for chest chris chris fos one the ticotkid and all those crazy places in the internet be good to each other stay safe we'll see you next time and that should have us out pet Great show.