The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Esteban: Love’s Irony (The Esteban Book) by Fish Nealman

Episode Date: April 24, 2024

Esteban: Love's Irony (The Esteban Book) by Fish Nealman https://amzn.to/3QdPPYA Embark on Esteban's captivating journey of resilience and self-discovery in "Love's Irony." From the evocative streets of Las Cruces, where he battles illness and solitude while revitalizing a forgotten church community, to the vibrant city of Kochi in southwest India, Esteban's life takes unexpected turns. In Kochi, amidst fulfilling duties and encountering fascinating individuals, Esteban discovers an unexpected source of joy. His path intersects with Aja, the head nurse, and their connection defies the conventional boundaries of their roles. However, their burgeoning romance faces challenges, especially as Aja grapples with her identity as a practicing nun. Their complex relationship unfolds within the hospital's corridors, leading to a heart-wrenching separation as Aja prioritizes her faith. Driven by heartache and divine guidance, Esteban seeks solace in Macau, only to experience the capricious nature of fate. From fleeting triumph to sudden deportation, Esteban's journey through love's irony is a rollercoaster of emotions. Join him as he navigates through life's unpredictable twists, exploring the depths of human connection and the profound irony that accompanies love's journey.

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As always, the Chris Voss Show is the family that loves you but doesn't judge you, at least not as harshly as your mother-in-law because, you know, she never liked you anyway. But get on her good side. Refer to the Chris Voss Show. Go to goodreads.com, 4chesschrisvoss, linkedin.com, 4chesschrisvoss, chrisvoss1 and the TikTokity and all those other crazy places on the Internet. As always, we have amazing authors on the show. We have the latest author on the show with his book coming out April 22nd, 2024.

Fish Nealman is going to be joining us on the show. It's the second book in his trilogy called Esteban Loves Irony. And we'll be talking to you about his book, what's inside of it, and why you're going to enjoy reading it. Fish Nealman is a distinguished luminary in data-driven business decisions. He is renowned for his insightful expertise, shared through a series of technical books with a global footprint spanning numerous countries. His profound insights enrich his debut fictional trilogy, seamlessly blending imagination and reality. As a seasoned professional, he's collaborated with organizations worldwide, unlocking the untapped potential of data. Through his masterful storytelling, readers are transported to captivating realms as his keen observations form the cornerstone of his transcendent tale.

Welcome to the show. How are you, Fish? I am great, thank you. Excellent. Give us a.com. How can people find you on the interwebs to get more knowing about you? I have a website that is tales.fish. So if you think about it, fishtales.

Fishtales. Tales is T-A-L-E-S dot F-I-S-H. There you go. So give us a 30,000 overview. What's inside your new book? It's part of book two of a trilogy. The overall trilogy deals with protagonist Esteban. The three stories are love ordeal, love's irony, and love's triumph.

But it fundamentally deals with an individual that actually has a mental condition that he's suffering with but he doesn't know about it and nobody around him ever knows about it only actually the reader of the book ever finds out about it but it's a story of a remarkable individual that changes the world for the better there There you go. So now this is the second book in your trilogy, the Esteban trilogy. The previous book was called Esteban, Love's Ordeal. Is that correct? Yes, that is correct. And are these both standalone books or do you need to read the first one before you read the second one? They are intended to be read one after the other, so the continuation of a story. So it's the book, overall the three books, it's multi-generational that the first couple of chapters

of the first book deal with Esteban's parents. But realistically through books one, two, and three is it's following Esteban's life. You go from Esteban being born all the way till he's in his 60s. Wow. Now I noticed that you've written a lot of other books, like technical books and stuff. That is correct, yes. What made you move from technical books to writing novels, I guess?

That's a great question. One of the things that I found was when I'm writing on technical things, and they tend to be things about centered on computing and technology and how to ultimately deal with very complex things that we now have to deal with, especially in the technical realm. And I found in how I explain things, I was often gravitating towards using analogy, which led me into storytelling. So I found that I was explaining complex technical issues through storytelling. And my wife made an observation to me, why don't I just write a story? Listening to my wife, I did. There you go. Sometimes they know best, or sometimes they're just trying to get you out of their hair.

There you go. When you set out to write this novel, what were some of the thoughts that were going through your head? Why were you enamored with this area of the world and this character? I wanted to write something that I really hadn't read before, and I wanted to write something that I thought had a great ending. I've often found in reading fiction that there can be wonderful stories, and by the time you get to the end, the way it ends leaves you a little wanting.

So I wanted to write something that, in how I interpreted it, I mitigated that issue. But I wanted to write something that I hadn't felt I had read before. So my story, in some parts, takes the hero's trope and follows that. But unlike a normal hero's journey story, where something happens to the protagonist that pulls him along and he's trying to accomplish and overcome something, Esteban himself, he's not motivated or driven in that way. So I found I was having to write a compelling narrative to pull the reader and to keep the reader with the story because there wasn't anything inherent in the story that was then pulling the protagonist along. And so it was within that I was just trying to write something

different than I had than myself before. Give us a little bit about your history. How did you grow up? What motivated you to want to become a writer and start writing? I was originally born in London, England, and grew up there in London. I went to school just outside of London. After I graduated, I went to work, and then I was given an opportunity to come to America, which I love the idea of doing that. And so I came over and I worked actually in Iowa. And so coming from London to Iowa, there was a little bit of culture shock in there,

but it was a wonderful place to be because being in a new country, fairly young and not knowing anything, it was a very comfortable, safe type of environment to be. Also being in Iowa, it allowed me to readily go see the rest of the US and see what was on offer there. And I enjoyed my time in America so much. And I was given the opportunity to stay longer, which I took. And so I've been here ever since I originally came over. And I was always working in the computer field. And along with that, I'd been doing some side things, some teaching in some universities. And I had been given an opportunity to, with my work, to work with governments around the world. During my career, I worked in over 50 countries on six continents.

I haven't been to Antarctica yet. And doing a lot of fantastic stuff. And I'd been a part of various industry committees and written some industry standards about things that were kind of very technical. I'd written a number of books and textbooks for colleges on technical subjects. And as I said, because I found I was writing a lot of narratives and stories to explain things, it opened up an opportunity to explore some of the thoughts I had about storytelling, but being able to also pull in some of the observations I had made storytelling, but being able to also pull in some of the observations I had made in my travels throughout the world. So one of the backdrops to the Esteban

trilogy is it becomes very multicultural. So Esteban himself was born in Mexico. A lot of the story takes, there's a little bit that takes place in the US, a lot of the story takes place in Mexico, Spain, Germany, Italy, Singapore, parts of Africa, the Middle East. So it's really pulling on all places. I've seen the different types of people that I've met trying to kind of get their personalities involved and really have a broad integrated story that ultimately gets the world into a better place. There you go. Oh, we always want to try and get this world into a better place. There you go. Oh, we always want to try and get this world into a better place because it's having some issues right now.

One or two, yes. There you go. The title of the book is called Esteban. And who is this Esteban? Tell us about this character and flush him out for us if you would. The story begins with his father, Stephen. And Stephen is a troubled youth he's the fifth of seven children and he gets lost with in being in such a big family that he doesn't get the attention he needs and so he always seeks and strives to get attention and to be noticed.

And it causes him to have some deviant behavior. He ultimately gets emancipated and kicked out. And he goes around and he finally gets some employment in Puerto Rico, where he's sent to Mexico. There he ultimately meets his future wife, Isabella. And so Isabella ends up getting pregnant and Stephen is forced into marrying her. And Esteban is the result of that. Stephen becomes quite, is a domineering type of character

and he wants his son to be called Stephen. But at this point between Esteban's parents, there's a lot of friction and animosity between the two. So his mother tries to be a little bit vengeful. And instead of directly calling her son, Stephen, uses the Spanish equivalent Esteban as a way to not do what her husband wanted, but kind of sort of do it. And that creates a lot of animosity too within the family that Esteban's father, Stephen, is so irritated by that that he almost wants nothing to do with his son.

And so Esteban, a lot of his parents really struggles with trying to get the love and attention he wants from his father, but his mother, he's overwhelmed by the love and attention he gets from her. So he mother he is overwhelmed by the love and attention he gets from her so he he grows up in a very dysfunctional family oh wow and so that probably shapes him and motivates him and how he does this now you you put this in the setting of i'm not sure if i'm pronouncing this right because i'm poorly poorly traveled. Macau? Macau. Macau. And so what made you choose that setting and city? So one of the things.

So within the beginning of the story, in the dysfunction I just described, in terms of Esteban's mother, she makes Esteban perfect. In terms of Esteban's father, his father makes him crazy. So between the two, they make him perfectly crazy. Esteban has a number of struggles and certainly within depression. The backbone of Esteban's mental health issues is that he is schizophrenic. Oh, wow. And in the medical field, the exact nature of schizophrenia, what brings that on is not completely known. So I, in part, include some environmental things, his parents contributing to it,

as well as situations he encounters that he becomes depressed and suicidal. It's when he's in school when this first happens. When he gets to this low ebb in this part of his life, his schizophrenia kicks in and he starts to hallucinate. And within the primary person that he hallucinates, which Esteban goes on to because of his mother's wishes, seeks to become a Catholic priest. The person that Esteban begins to hallucinate is Jesus. And so it becomes very supportive within that, but at

one point in a struggle within Love's Irony, that Jesus suggests that they go on a vacation and suggests that they go to Macau, which is a region of China where gambling is allowed. And so Esteban himself has no idea why he's directly going out to Macau. But he ends up, he finds out through Jesus that they've gone there to gamble. And Esteban does extremely well. Really? Wow. Phenomenally well. Jesus' lead at the roulette wheel.

At the roulette wheel, at the craps table, and also with Blackjack. I need Jesus to go with me to Vegas. Yes. There's a very funny scene within that. But because he's hallucinating, nobody sees Jesus other than Esteban himself. One of the reasons why it's not an anomaly or problematic for other people to kind of see Esteban's potentially quirky behaviors is because when he's studying to become a priest, he learns to say his prayers while he's walking. So he has been seen in life talking to himself,

but in learning to say his prayers, reciting them. Because he's a priest, he's very humble, he's plenty of humility. So within his characteristics, there's nothing abnormal about him. And so he goes on. So nobody else can see him. Jesus himself, because he's a hallucination, physically can't do anything for Esteban. Can't perform any magic, can't do anything miracle-wise or anything special like that. Because of his deep depression and schizophrenia, Esteban, Jesus is essentially a crutch that enables Esteban just to kind of get through life. But he does very well in Macau.

He gets thrown out of the country because he does so well. But with the money that he wants, it is put to really good use. So he doesn't really keep anything for himself and donates it to actually what turns out to be the reason he went to macau to begin with was he did have a love interest even as a priest which he acknowledges he shouldn't do or anything he is human as a basic tenant through all of these things so he's susceptible to desires of people humans the person he was having an affair with, Asia, she leaves. He goes away to Macau. Asia has gone back to school to become a medical doctor.

And Esteban, with his winnings, sets up a trust for Asia so that all her education is paid for and that she has a trust to build a corporation that can do good in the world, which she does with that. There you go. It sounds like a very interesting, intriguing book as it goes through it. Of course, you can't tell us the middle ending. That's one of the challenges of novels.

But yeah, it sounds like he's definitely conflicted because he's a priest and, you know, I don't think you're supposed to fall in love, right? You're supposed to... No love right you're supposed to no it's the the book itself it pulls on human condition human nature and a lot of things and it walks a fine edge that could make certain things uncomfortable but it's not trying to throw it in your face and make things abrasive for the sake of abrasion rather just exploring human nature human than human condition yeah I noticed the spelling of Asia of the character in your book is the same as the Steely Dan spelling any relation there a thousand

percent relation it was that that album that I took her name from and the spelling and the pronunciation. There you go. It's a great album. In fact, there's been a producer, I forget his name off the top of my head, who's been interviewing people that did the sessions with Steely Dan for Asia. And Asia has Steve Gadd, I think, was the drummer on it. And he just did some amazing things. In fact fact we had

i believe the producer of that album and several of the ceiling down albums and a lot of great albums on the show to interview about to interview about his work as a producer and and stuff so it was pretty it was pretty amazing stuff the this thing is like every time you say asia my brain goes stealing in yes bill schnee on the show back in 2021. He's referred to as the chairman of the board because he's such a great recording engineer. And he engineered like so many great albums, Barbra Streisand, Stair Straits, you name it.

Carly Simon, Ringo Starr, Arkham Folk, all the poignant sisters, gags huey lewis the dire straits whitney houston he did whitney houston's first seminal album that was just you know just a rock but yeah he he was on asia and several other things so it was a wonderful discussion with him but yeah asia that's always interesting you keeps saying Asia, and my brain goes, steal it in. There's also, from a music standpoint as well, there's a number of influences from other more modern people, like Morrissey, who was originally in the band The Smiths. So there are a number of either albums that I've really liked

or musicians that I think are wonderful in the music they produced. Some of their things have influenced the book in some ways. There you go. There you go. Well, it's very interesting, all this stuff that goes into this. And yeah, it's pretty wild. Give us, what do you hope to achieve with the trilogy? I guess there'll be a third book coming out. That is correct. The third one will come out in the summer.

So I'm hoping it will be read and enjoyed. And if that happens and it does find an audience, then I have planned a fourth and fifth book to go with it as well. Well, that should be very interesting. If it does the fourth and fifth book, of course you want it to take and work good for you

and all that good stuff. That can make all the difference in the world. Do you think it's going to be along the same lines? It's going to be rolling down with his life and some of the issues that he has? Yes. The fourth book will be a continuation of his life. In the first book his father disappears and in the fourth book there will be a back story as to how that happened and that they will be reintroduced and it will also be that how during the course of Esteban's life his father has been watching him from afar but with him so in the beginning where esteban has spends his whole life not having his father's love will end up being able to get that and would have been the missing ingredient through all of the good things that esteban has accomplished

in all the experiences he's had he will be able to kind of close that one missing part of his life. That should be helpful. Trying to get your dad's love sometimes can be hard. Yes. Because sometimes dads, well, they just don't like you. I guess that's how my dad was for half my life. He was like, I don't know about

this kid. I'm not sure if I like him or not. But I guess it turned out pretty good in the end. That or he just accepted me for who I was. He's like, I'll put up with this kid. He seems okay. I think you have turned out okay. So there you go. Anyway, final thoughts as we go out. Tell people

where to pick up the book. Finalsalespitch.com where people can find you on the interwebs. Okay, great. The book is available everywhere worldwide that you can buy a book. So Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Target, Walmart in America or various international Amazon sites. It is available in Kindle, hardback, paperback, as well as an audio book. So hopefully it will be readily accessible to everybody. My website, as I said, is tales.fish, T-A-L-E-S dot F-I-S-H.

And you can email me from my website or if people want to be able to reach out. I am on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. Or if they want to reach me via email, it's just fish at tails.fish. There you go. Well, it's been wonderful to have you on. Thank you very much, Fish. We really appreciate it. I appreciate it so much.

Thank you. There you go. And pick it up, folks, wherever fine books are sold. It'll be out April 22nd, 2024, next week. And pick up the original book. You can read it real quick before the new one comes out, and that you'll be up to par thanks for tuning in go to goodreads.com fortress chris foss linkedin.com fortress chris fuss chris foss won the tiktokity and all those crazy places on the internet thanks for tuning in be good to each other stay safe and we'll see you guys next time