The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Exit Rich: The 6 P Method to Sell Your Business for Huge Profit by Michelle Seiler Tucker

Episode Date: May 6, 2022

Exit Rich: The 6 P Method to Sell Your Business for Huge Profit by Michelle Seiler Tucker Seilertucker.com Wallstreet Journal Bestseller & USA Today Bestseller 2022 IBPA Benjamin Franklin Award Silver Medalist in Business & Career Too many entrepreneurs push off planning for the sale of their business until the last moment. But for a business to sell for what it’s really worth―or even more―owners need to prepare for the sale from the very start. In Exit Rich, author and mergers and acquisitions authority Michelle Seiler Tucker joins forces with Sharon Lechter, finance expert and author of Rich Dad Poor Dad, to create a must-have guide for all business owners―whether they’re gearing up to sell a business now or just getting started building out their company into something to sell for a profit in the future. Seiler Tucker’s twofold approach to selling your business for maximum profit combines two of the most powerful elements of her mergers and acquisitions toolkit: the “ST GPS Exit Model” to help business owners set goals for the sale before their business hit the market, and the “6 P Method” to help them objectively evaluate their business’s worth, before their potential buyers do. Combined, these tools provide invaluable insight into the process of preparing a business for sale, finding the right buyers, and staging the sale itself. Throughout the book, Sharon Lechter’s wisdom peppers each chapter in the “Mentoring Corner” section, providing forward-thinking entrepreneurs with the perspective that they need to take control of their business’s future and exit rich. This book is a rich resource for any business owner looking to: • Objectively evaluate their business before a sale • Improve their chances of finding the right buyer • Sell their business for maximum profit

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. This is Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com, thechrisvossshow.com. Hey, we certainly appreciate you guys tuning in.

Thanks for being here. Be sure to refer to the show to your family, friends, and relatives. Go to goodreads.com, 4Chess, Chris Voss, see everything we're reading and reviewing over there. Go to youtube.com, 4Chess, Chris Voss, see, hit the bell notification button so you can do that as well. Go to all our groups on Facebook,

LinkedIn, Twitter, just search the Chris Voss, the Chris Voss Show. You'll find just, we're just everywhere. Also go to our LinkedIn newsletter. We don't sign up for that thing. That thing goes out almost every day and has some of our hottest authors on it and all that good stuff. You're going to see the freshest book authors on there. Go to our 122,000 LinkedIn group on LinkedIn as well. Search for the Chris Foss show and all that good stuff. Anyway, guys, we have a returning guest. She's been on before. After coronavirus,

it seems like it's been 50 million years, but she was on just last year. I'm losing my mind. I'm not sure I'm still back from COVID lockdown, but she is the author of the book, Exit Rich, The 6P Method to Sell Your Business for Huge Profit. Michelle Seiler Tucker is on the show with us today, and she's going to be talking to us about her book, Brilliant Mind. I learned a lot from her when she was on the show, and I think you're going to learn a lot from her. Once again, we'll get to talk to her about what's going on in today's world. Her and her team have sold a thousand businesses to date. She currently owns and operates several successful businesses and holds the following professional designations and certifications. The merger and acquisition, master intermediary,

it's like Monday on a Tuesday, certified senior business analyst, certified mergers and acquisitions professional, best-selling author and panelist for M&A Source. Over the past decade, Michelle has sold several hundred businesses and franchises. What makes Michelle a formidable force in her industry is that she closes nearly 98% of all offers she writes, on average, obtains a 20 to 40% and sometimes 60% higher selling price for her clients. Her remarkable track record proves her dedication and persistence,

and here she is in the flesh today. Welcome to the show, Michelle. How are you? Great, Chris. It's good to be back with you. It's good to be back, and I'm glad we all survived the whole COVID thing, that crisis, whatever that was going on there. It's good to survive it.

Yeah, we're there. So give me your plugs, your dot coms, wherever you want people to check you out, order up your books and stuff, et cetera, et cetera. Sure. So we launched Exit Rich last year, June of last year. And proud to say it's a Wall Street Journal bestseller, USA Today bestseller. You can get that at any of their favorite bookstores or Amazon.

You can also go to exitrichbook.com. We're so excited that we're launching the audio version, Chris. Ah! You've been asking me for the longest time, where's the audio? Where's the audio? Everybody says, I don't read. I don't read. Everybody tells me they don't read, that they only listen to audiobooks.

So we finally came out with the audiobook. It came out May 1st. It's available for the month of May only for the promotion of $2.99. Wow. $2.99. That's less than a cup of coffee. That's less than a quarter pounder with cheese. That's less than a Happy Meal.

I can't even. I could go on and on. $2.99. You also become a lifetime member into the Exit Rich Book Club, where you will have access to video training where we're really discussing techniques and strategies for me being in the trenches for the last 20 plus years. And we have documents, Chris, documents to operate your business, such as employee handbooks,

positive procedure manuals, documents to sell your company. Most business owners have never seen these documents. What does an evaluation look like? A prospectus, a letter of intent, a purchase agreement, due diligence checklist, closing documents. All these documents together cost me over $50,000 to create over the last 20 years. They're there for your upload for $2.99. That's a good deal.

Go order now. You can order on Amazon. You can order on Apple. You can order wherever you get your favorite audio book. And that is a heck of a deal, huh? It is. That's the country. And to get that deal where they get access to your group there, do they need to order

that through Amazon and then somehow they have a way to make that connection work? Well, so what they need to do is order through, they can order through Amazon, Apple, Barnes & Noble, and then just shoot us an email and you can shoot work well so so what they need to do is order through they can order through amazon apple barnes and noble and then just shoot us an email and you can shoot us an email to marketing at silertucker.com with the receipt and then we'll send you access to seller silertuckeracademy.com our main website is silertucker.com there you go i i feel less guilty now i still have to do the audiobook of my book that I put out in October. I'm just like, oh, I tried to get it done when we were editing the book. It

was between that and editing the book. I was like, so I'm glad you got that out because I'm a big audio book fan. I read a lot of audio books. I go to the gym and then usually when I'm driving to the gym back and forth or driving anywhere, I've got audios playing. So that's great that you have that available now. So let's talk a little bit about you. Maybe some background on you, what got you in the business, and kind of your up-and-coming, kind of an origin story, if you would, please. Sure. So I've always been interested in entrepreneurship, even as a little girl. I would always tell my mom, I'm never getting a job.

I'm going to be my own boss. Is that all right to be told what to do? And I used to tell my mom, stop telling me what to do. But, you know, so what do I do? I go into business. I open up many different businesses. And guess who tells me what to do? My clients and my business partners.

So anyway, I've always been an entrepreneurship. I've owned many different businesses and different verticals. I actually got recruited from Xerox, you know, Fortune 500 company called Xerox. And worked for them about six months as a high volume manager. And my nickname became The Closer. So anytime somebody couldn't close a deal, they're like, Oh, Michelle, she can close it. She closes everything.

And then they asked. So then they asked me to interview for regional vice president position, which I did. And I actually got the position. And so I was in charge of the entire south region over seeing over 100 salespeople. And Chris, I realized how much I really didn't want a job. And I'll be careful what you wish for because it was horrible. I mean, I'm OK. I was OK't want a job. And I'm like, be careful what you wish for because it was horrible. I mean, I'm okay. I was okay with the selling piece

because I like selling. I like solving problems. I'm solution oriented. I love building relationships that last a lifetime. What I don't like doing is managing a bunch of kids. They call themselves sales people, but they're really toddlers.

And so that's what I didn't like. So I ended up transitioning out of Xerox. And like I said, I've owned different businesses along the way, but I transitioned out of Xerox into my own franchise development, franchise consulting, and franchise sales company. And in this company, I had equity in different franchisors. So I really specialized in area development, building out the franchise, taking somebody who has three locations to 50 locations. But I had so many buyers that kept asking me for, you know, existing businesses because franchising is not for everyone, right?

Yeah. So I kept saying, no, no, no. And I'm like, oh, gosh, I'm a big Bob Huckster fan. In fact, I've spoke with him on stage numerous times. And I'm like, I need to listen to the universe. I need to go out there and start my M&A practice. And I did that a little over 20 years ago. Wow. And you guys have been doing ever since you've sold thousands of businesses, if I recall rightly, through your company. You know, one thing I remember talking about with you that really stuck in my head was, you know, I built all my companies to build an empire. And, of course, you know, they, you know, ran into all sorts of different issues like, you know, getting wiped out during the recession and all that sort of good stuff.

I mean, even the legendary Chris Voss runs into problems. I hadn't read your book yet. I didn't learn from you that you're supposed to build a business to sell it. And so let's talk about the title of your book, Exit Rich. Why did you title it that? And what are the 6P method? Sure. So just to back up a little bit.

So, you know, like I said, I entered this industry a little over 20 years ago. And I realized pretty quickly, Chris, that most businesses are not sellable. And what Steve Forbes says is true. Steve Forbes endorsed Exit Rich, as Steve Forbes says 80% of businesses on the market will never sell. M&A Source says 90%. So that means you have less than a 10% to 20% chance of success when you put your business on the market. So I said to myself back then, I said, oh my gosh, if I don't fix these businesses, if I don't grow these businesses, I'm going to starve to death.

So we really specialize in buying, selling, fixing, growing companies. I partner with business owners, investing my money, core competencies, resources, then to get their business back on track so that we can sell it for the desired sales price. So why did I name the book Exit Rich? Well, that publishing company came up with lots of names like Exit on Top, Exit on Your Terms, Exit This, Exit That. They're like, well, what about just Exit Rich? And I'm like, oh, great idea.

So that's kind of how we came up with the name Exit Rich. Yeah, and I like the idea that you had of when you design your business, when you build it, just from the very beginning, you start structuring it in an aspect of a way that you could eventually sell it. And, you know, I mean, that's one of the problems I have with the Chris Voss show. It's a little hard to sell because it's got my name on it. I've often thought, what if I could sell this thing? And then, I don't know, you'd have to change it to something else. But I've actually thought, what if I could sell this thing? And then, I don't know, you'd have to change it to something else. But I've actually thought about that. There's a new company that we've launched called the Chris Voss Leadership Institute surrounding my book.

And I've bought both chrisfossleadershipinstitute.com and I think it's cvli.com as well. So we have it so that if when I sell it, somebody can just take it to CVLI as the initials. So you've made me think about this stuff and use it for future business deals. Awesome. And it's very hard to sell a company that's tied to your brand. I mean, you know, Tony Robbins had to do an ESOP and sell to his employees years ago. And if you ever read the book, The Millionaire Mindset, T. Harv Eckert, he had to completely rerun and get away from T. Harv Eckert, and he started Peak Potentials.

So, you know, you just have to look at your business and say, okay, how much of it is tied to you? You know, in the leadership program, how many coaches, consultants are you going to have? What's going to be tied to you? Because if it's tied to you, if it's still based upon you and your brand it's going to be very difficult to sell and then that brings me back to why 80 percent of businesses don't sell for many reasons first and foremost business owners don't plan their exit like you said a minute ago you know steven covey always said start with the end in mind well michelle solid

tupper says you need to start your exit strategy from the minute you begin. You start or buy a business because business owners are so busy working to end their business, they're not thinking about exit strategy until a catastrophic event occurs. And that catastrophic event could be health issues,

partners disputes, divorce, death, or this crazy pandemic that we've been living in for the last year and a half as an external example of a pandemic. I mean, a catastrophic event. So you never want to sell your business, Chris, to a catastrophe. And what happens, Chris, is these business owners will call me, and I always ask them, well, what's your desired sales price? And they'll say, what do you want to sell your business for?

You're laughing because you know the answer. So they always come to me and say, what do you want to sell your business for? You're laughing because you know the answer. So they always come to me and say, oh, I want to sell for $20 million. But their EBITDA is $100,000. You know? Appreciation and amortization. And I'm like, how did you come up with $20 million with an EBITDA of $100?

And they said, well, Michelle, you know, I need that to retire on. I need that to put five girls through college or pay for five weddings. I need that to buy another business. Well, buyers don't care about what you need or what you want. Buyers care about the value that your business brings to them and what they're willing to pay for that. You mean 50 times multiples isn't revenue? Isn't what you can sell for?

Unless you have a SaaS business, just take it off and it's a unicorn. Maybe you'll get 50 multiple revenues. What if I get Elon Musk to buy it? I'm just kidding. Maybe. Maybe. I mean, he just bought Twitter.

What's his reason why he bought Twitter, Chris? Why didn't he buy Twitter? I think he was high. I think he was high on the Joe Rogan show. He was high? I think he was high on the Joe Rogan show if you saw the smoking pot on the – Anyway, so that's number one why businesses don't sell is because they don't plan their exits. So on Exit Rich, we talk about plan your exit from the beginning. And so the GPS exit in line, meaning come up with your destination, know your current value, know your

timeframe, there's five different types of buyers, know which buyers are right for your business, know your plan, know your numbers, know the characteristics that these buyers are wanting to buy and will pay top dollar for. I mean, that's how you create a bidding war and that's how you maximize value.

And then, you know, one of the biggest reasons too that businesses don't sell it's kind of like what you said earlier yeah this is you so a lot of business owners have created themselves a glorified job that they go to work at every day versus a business that actually works for them and if you are the business it's not sellable that's not just in a podcast or show my businesses we're selling agriculture agriculture business right now for $55 million. And guess what, Chris? They've got 350 employees and the business is still dependent upon the owner.

Wow. That's crazy, man. The owner has his hands in everything. The owner has all the client relationships. The owner knows everything about growing i mean it's just all in his head and like i said the client relationship so you know in in that case the owner has to retain interest has to retain equity because otherwise the buyer's not going to buy it yeah they need to you know buy a smaller portion and keep the owner on in which to medicate their risk.

Yeah. I mean, if you're, if you're a smart person, you start grooming your replacements and you start, you start looking, okay, who's going to replace me? Who's going to move up the food chain and everything else. Let's talk about you in the book. You talk about the six P method. Do you want to tease some of that out to us? Absolutely. So the first P is what we're talking about right now. and that's people. And I start with people because without people, you're not really getting anything done. You're never going to build a scalable, sustainable business without people. And the only thing, you don't build a business, Chris. You build people, and people build a business.

And most entrepreneurs are control freaks, right? Yeah. Not you, of course. Not you. Well, I've been known. Most are control freaks right yeah you of course not you well i've been known most of the control freaks so they want to have their hand in every every pie their finger in every pie and then you know they like well if i want it done right i have to do it myself you'll never grow unless you let go of the control so you have to make sure you have the right people in the right

seats and you have to ask the who question who handles customer service quality control you know accounting legal manufacturing distribution etc the list goes on and on the clue here chris is you should never be next to the business who runs without you look i'll give you a perfect example a dental practice called me and wanted to sell been in business 50 years great clientele guess what one dentist the owner his daughters oh man so i feel like i can sell your business but i can't maximize value because you are you and your daughters are the business and i said and the buyers want to want you to retain equity and stay on for two to three years. He said, well, honey, we're not staying.

And I said, well, honey, you're not selling. Yeah, because in a business like that, a lot of the customers are attached to the owner after he's been there for that long. And when he leaves, the book will probably lose some revenue and customers at the book because they'll be like, well, we kind of like Joe and Joe is gone now. So we don't like the new guy. So we'll go someplace else. Right. Yep. And that's that service type businesses.

Almost every service type business. Yeah. They built themselves a glorified job than the actual business that works for them. But like I said, even in your larger companies like the agriculture company, you know, business owners, like I said, want to maintain that control. Yeah. And they do that. Now, we have an electrical company we're selling in the $50 million range. She's just the opposite, Chris.

He works 10 hours a week. He's got two facilities, and he's got a project manager at each location, and the business can run without him. I like that model. I really like that model. 10 hours a week? It's a model, isn't it? I might buy that business. $7 million in EBITDA.

Will he take a check? There you go. So I think we covered, what, two of the P's? No, we covered one. We covered one. Okay. You follow the second P is product. When you're in business, you have a product, the service, and industry.

You're in the podcasting business. Right? So you got to look at your industry and say, is it on the way up? It's on the way out. You know, like newspapers are on the way out. You know, print is on the way out. Restaurants during this pandemic were on the way out. So you want to sell when you're in your prime.

So you can ask yourself, are you an Amazon or are you a Blockbuster? And you always want to sell when your business is doing well. And here's another big caveat to that, Chris, is that the reason why so many businesses, especially restaurants, went out of business during this pandemic is because they have one profit center. That's one way they get paid. Restaurants get paid if you go dine or if you take food out, but they don't have any

commerce business. They don't have private labels. They're not doing cooking shows. They don't have any additional congruent revenue streams. You can't put all of your eggs in one basket. You always need to have those congruent revenue streams, additional profit centers. Like me, I own many different businesses. So if one business doesn't like M&A, it was terrible in 2020.

So guess what? I have medical legal marketing companies and most of the straight clinics. I have a graphics company to specialize in first responders. So I always have different profit centers. But for restaurants and other business owners, don't diversify. Make sure it's congruent Now when you say with restaurants congruency Do you mean like A restaurant chain or

Well they can have multiple locations But during a pandemic That's not going to help you Because they can't hold close But what if you have some specialty items That you or the chef Or your chef creates And they're really unique I mean start an e-commerce business.

I have a restaurant chain that's actually private labeling some of their dressings and other sauces and things like that, and they're selling them at the Whole Foods and other grocery stores. I got another restaurant that does wine and cheese Zoom calls every week, and they pocket money from doing that because they charge you up from $150 to $300 for the wine and cheese Zoom calls every week, and they pocket money from doing that because they charge you up to $150 to $300 for the wine and cheese, and they deliver it to your house. You can have the house out of the box and say,

how as a restaurant owner can I add convert streams about that? Yeah. The other thing I like, too, when I interviewed you last time, and I know we're interrupting the six Ps, the documents you were talking about that people can have access to from you by ordering your audio book, those are really important to lay that foundation to where the business can be sellable. You know, instead of doing a sole proprietorship, you've got an LLC or something along those lines as a recommendation for you. That's really important. Like, people don't really think about that from the get-go.

No, they don't. They don't think about that. Just like they don't think about processes and employee handbooks and market people, upper management and things of that nature. Yeah. So product is that second P.

Let me tell you, if you don't have the right product, if you're not in the right industry or the right service, you're going to go out of business really quickly. I always encourage clients to ask three questions. What business are you in? What business are you in?

McDonald's. What business is McDonald's in? McDonald's is in a franchising business, isn't it? No. A land business. They're in a real estate business. Real estate business, yeah. So, at Amazon, like back in the 80s, Amazon asked these questions.

What business are we in? They said we're in the fulfillment business. We fulfill book orders. Yeah. Two, what's your superpower? Amazon said our superpower is fulfillment. We do that better than everybody. Question number three, most important question, Chris.

What business should you be at? The name of the game is pivoting. That's what seven P's pivot. But you got to pivot. You got to adjust. You got to be flexible. You're either going or dying. There's no in between.

So Amazon asked those three questions. Those three questions literally transformed Amazon from a small book fulfillment center to a multi, multi, multi-billion dollar corporation. How do you feel about franchising? I was typing out a note here, franchising. How do you feel about that? Do you think people should start their own companies or franchise if they're looking to exit rich? So that's my background, franchising.

I did that before I got into M&A. So I always say franchising, there's different. Franchising. I did that before I got into M&A. So I always say franchising, there's different aspects of franchising. Buying a franchise, if you've never owned a business before and you're not really an entrepreneur and you're just leaving corporate America because you have this dream of being your old boss,

I think franchising is a good partner because you're in business for yourself but not by yourself. Yeah. Training, you have the procedures because you're in business for yourself, but not by yourself. Yeah. Training, you have the procedures, you have the policies, processes. You know, they usually assign a mentor, you know, to make sure that you're up to speed on everything. And good franchises will research good locations, they'll do due diligence. You know, they'll help you with due diligence.

They'll help you make sure you're getting into the right demographics area, et cetera. So that works great for corporate people that want to leave corporate America. Not so great for entrepreneurs. Because entrepreneurs want to make their own decisions, like me. They want to have control. They want to be able to follow things. They don't want to be told what to do all the time. So a franchise is not right for them,

which is why I had so many buyers asking me for existing businesses when I was specializing in selling franchises. Now, if you have a really good concept and you want to franchise that, it's the best way to leverage other people's

money and draw your footprint exponentially. So I highly recommend successful, you should have three, four, five locations first before you decide to go franchise that out. Is it easier to sell

franchises than a normal business? I'm glad you asked that question because here's another good solid point. If you're looking to buy a franchise, and franchisors hate me when I say this, but I tell the truth. If you're looking to buy a franchise, don't buy a new

franchise. Don't buy a new franchise because they're going to tell you it's going to cost you $250 to $400 maybe for a Baskin Robbins or $300 to $500. But guess what? They're always low in their estimates. If you've ever built anything commercial-wise, build-out always costs more than they tell you it's going to cost.

It always takes twice as long as what they tell you it's going to take. Then you've got to order new equipment, inventory. You've got to build out that space for interest, fixtures, and equipment. You've got to hire people, et cetera. And you're spending money based upon what it costs to build that new franchise. An existing franchise, you're paying based upon what the three or four month trailing average is. So you're based on the actual numbers.

Years and years ago, my firm sold a basket of robinets. I've been in business for 13 years for $190,000. I've been in business for 30 years. I had a dynamite location, had employees in place, had an employee tenure, had a great client base, fabulous location, and guess what? They're making $90,000 a year, sometimes more, and we sold that for $190,000 because it was based upon the cash flow.

A brand-new one would cost you $400,000 to $500,000 with no cash flow. Wow. Why would you ever go buy a new franchise? Always buy an existing franchise. And then franchises are not good, in my opinion, for attorneys and doctors and things like that because they buy like a smoothie. They'll buy like a Smoothie King or an Ice Cream Grinch or something like that. And what happens like a smoothie. They'll buy like a smoothie king or an ice cream content or something like that. And what happens when employees don't show up? They have to show up.

They're a lawyer. They're a doctor. You know, I have one lawyer, St. Michelle. I invested over $600,000 in the startup franchise. People are stealing from me. They're not showing up. They're not doing this or that. I find myself now running this business to stay in my law practice, which I make $250 an hour in my law practice.

So if you're looking to make an investment as a professional, you know, you want to make sure you buy an existing franchise or buy something that doesn't need so many people to operate it. How has COVID changed or what's going on right now? You know, you bring up a good point with that story. I've sometimes gone into some, because everybody here in Utah, there's signs up going, we need employees, please come. And I've been wondering, sometimes I go into business, I'm like, am I going to find the owner behind the counter? You know, just trying to keep the thing going.

In fact, I know of one IHOP here in Utah where the owner is working the, she's running the whole thing and her daughter is one of the waitresses because they can't get enough people. It's crazy. I know. And you know what? It just boggles my mind

because people don't work for two years. Where's the money coming from? I think government shut off all the pay. Yeah, they did. Where's the money coming from? How are they making money? How are they sustaining their lifestyle?

So it just boggles my mind. It's very difficult in all industries right now. That company I told you we're selling for $55 million. Man, they had like three people walk out. An M&A firm that we're working with, law firm that we've been working with for 20 years, they had three attorneys

just walk out one day. So it's pretty much tough in every single industry. You just got to get really creative. Think outside the box. You've got to change your hiring methods completely. Change your interviewing style,

change your hiring methods, you know, and just really start to do things simply is there any is there any maybe preferred businesses you should look at maybe ones that maybe aren't maybe as employee intensive that have you know i don't know what manufacturing or something i don't know that's something that doesn't have automation sort of thing yeah there, there are, but you've got like SaaS companies, e-commerce companies, things of that nature. But you've got to be very careful with that because what's, what happened in these last two years is a lot of millennials and Generation X, you know, they're, they're, they're solution oriented. So they have started SaaS businesses, they've started e-commerce businesses and everything else.

I mean, I got a guy who started a coffee business manufacturing coffee pots, selling like crazy on Amazon. You know, 90% of his business was really Amazon, but he was restructuring that and he was getting his stuff because he also did coffee too. He was private labeling and getting things, you know, in the hands of medical providers and things like that. But then he was going to the grocery store.

So he was really diversifying. But the problem is he had no infrastructure. He had no employees. He had one employee. The rest were 1099s. We got another guy that has an app company. It's him and his wife. Their EBITDA is about $2 million a year.

But it's just them two two we got another online education business where it's him and his wife you know so you have to be careful on the flip side of that because when you go to sell that if you don't have the infrastructure buyers are typically going to walk away unless it's a business that has infrastructure themselves and can fold it into their company and utilize their resources. Otherwise, most buyers will walk away. We've had so many buyers walk away from these different companies because they don't have the infrastructure. Wow.

Very careful. You've really got to find that happy mix between technology and VR. Automation is the name of the game. Definitely. Figure out a way that you can is the name of the game you know figure out a way that you can automate everything to reduce you know the employee cost another thing is is jobs are being lost in america too because employers have had it so they're starting to go outside of america and do business with the philippines and do business in india and different countries

like that because you can get them for a fraction of the cost. They usually don't complain. They usually don't call in sick. They don't bring a problem to America. And so America's going to lose jobs because of that too. And then you're going to lose even more jobs

because companies like McDonald's and Burger King and banks and they're all automating. You won't even have somebody taking your order anymore. If you go through an airport, look at all of the restaurants, and they're now automated. Even bar tenders. When you go to a bar, there's a computer taking your order and cracking jokes. Yeah.

Isn't that wild? Are you going to McDonald's, Taco Bell now? There's a thing there. It's hard to get used to for me because I'm just, you know, used to people person. But, you know, I think people in the younger generation like it more. It looks like. Technology driven, right? That we are.

Oh, my God. I learned new technology. I remember when the airport kiosk came out. I'm like, where is that fire sign? Like, how do I get extra pickles on my burger? Like which one of these buttons does that? It appears that I'm interested in your input on this as well, but it appears that we are ending a recession. We're in the, we've already passed the first quarter and all we need is the second quarter and we are officially in a recession. Clearly the Fed's going to make five or six moves. They're way behind the eight ball making their

moves. Do you see a coming recession? And what's the best way to either recession-proof your business or recession-proof maybe companies that you're looking, maybe something you're looking to buy that would be recession-proof? Yeah. So, like, you know, look, Tony Robbins says this all the time. Tony Robbins always says, winter is coming. Winter is coming. Winter is coming.

Prepare now. And so, you know, what is coming, winter is coming, winter is coming, prepare now. And so, well, you know, what goes up, let's come down, right? What goes up,

let's come down. So, of course, we're going to be heading into a recession. You've already seen the writing on the wall. Yeah.

If ads are going to increase interest, it's going to be harder to get money. Private equity and strategics and stuff have been telling us, you know,

whether our sellers are like, look, you want to sell this business? You better hurry up before July because once June or July comes, the money is going to dry up. You're not going to see as many transactions as you do right now in M&A because M&A had a record year for 2021 and it started 2022. That's predicted to dry up by July or August. And then the housing market's going to, oh my gosh, you're going to see more big losses than you thought. Yeah, you're going to see collapse. Well, guess what? If you plan right, you're strategic, you can take advantage.

I mean, there were more and more and more billionaires traded out of the Great Depression than ever before. Out of this pandemic, there were billionaires traded. And guess what? Out of this new recession, you're going to see more billionaires great yeah buy low sell high that's the key so what else do we want to touch on in your book i think we got a few that's why we won't buy another house right now because i'm not going to make double or triple right because it's about to come down you know yeah i mean toronto mean, Toronto's already dropped, I think, 20%, 22%. Lumber prices are on the way down.

You know, I live through, I own a mortgage company for 20 years, and I've lived through all the recessions since 2008. I see what's going on. I'm like, yeah, you don't want to be buying right now because it's going to pop. It's going to pop. Now, if you're in a stock market, buy. That's when you buy. That's when you buy, buy, buy.

You don't pull your money out of the stock market buy buy right yeah so what else do we want to cover on your book or tease out so that people order that baby out we can go through the rest of three i said we got four piece left we can go through those really quickly on the third one is processes it's the number one reason why businesses fail lack of working capital and lack of processes are the reasons why businesses fail. So you've got to butt up your processes. You've got to figure out what your clients want to experience because consumer buying habits have changed dramatically. Whoever makes the easiest for the consumer to purchase, like Amazon, they're winning. So you've got to go back to your clients and ask them, what are the three things you want to experience?

Everyone should do that with their clients right now because whoever creates a wow experience is the one that's going to win their business. Otherwise, you're going to lose market share. You're going to have processes, SLP checklist, employee handbooks, market feeds, et cetera, and design your processes around the customer experience. Wow, what an idea. Most of the customers design their processes around their own agenda. Look at doctor's offices.

They open Monday through Thursday, 9 to 5, and they're usually closed on Fridays. My husband and I own medical clinics. That's what we did. We said, what do our patients want? They want flexible hours. Guess what? We'll open three nights a week until 730 at night. Holy crap.

And we'll open Saturday a half a day. Wow. Until 2, actually.30 at night. Holy crap. And we'll open Saturday a half a day. Wow. Until 2, actually. That got heard of. Exactly. So what did McDonald's do in 1940 when they said we want to develop a fast food restaurant? They said we want to design it around the customer experience. Well, the customer experience contains the food.

It's hot, fast, 30 seconds or less. It's why you can eat at McDonald's anywhere in the world and get the same experience, right? Wow. So 4P really quickly is the highest value driver. Let me give you a crash course of evaluations. Businesses that have less than a million dollars in EBITDA or interest-free purchase taxes, depreciation, and amortization will trade anywhere from one and a half to three, maybe three and a half. If you're a SaaS company, you're always going to trade. Well, I say always, but you're going to trade at a multiple of revenues, not EBITDA.

Your business is over a million, so that's your sweet spot. The goal is to get your business over a million dollars in EBITDA because that's where all the buyers are, Chris. That's where all the buyers are. There's five different types of buyers. So get your EBITDA over a million dollars, and then your multiple is heard at four and a half, five. Proprietary assets, proprietary is the next P. It's the highest value driver of any of the other P's. Proprietary is branding.

The more well-branded you are, the more we can sell your company for as long as your brand is relevant to many consumers. Nobody's buying Blockbuster or Toys R Us, but Apple is the most valuable brand in the world. Their brand is worth $289 billion. Their entire. Their brand is worth $289 billion. Their entire company's brand alone is $289 billion. You want trademarks. For a trademark, don't just get a state trademark.

You need to get a federal trademark. Otherwise, you can receive a cease and desist letter in the mail. You have to stop using that company name. So get a federal trademark. Get your company name on your podcast show. Did you know, Chris, that the attorneys told me that i still have to federally trademark silo talk even though it's my company name really yes because wow because i was flabbergasted and it's this is a trademark attorney that's really big big big time and that's

all they do and i said yes michelle because somebody opens up Seiler M&A firm or Tucker M&A firm, there's nothing you can do. Wow. Wow. So you want to trademark your name so nobody can open up Tucker M&A firm or Seiler, you know, M&A firm. That's what I should do. You don't want to think about that, trademarking your name. Voss ProFast. you know, M&A farm. That's what I should do. I don't want to think about that. Trademarking your name. Lost podcast. Does anybody really want to copy a guy who looks like this?

You're not copying how you look. You're copying about how successful you are. That's true. That's true. Trademarks. Trademark your products. We have a company that has exclusive products to all of our TJ Maxx, you know, and each product, they're the same products, Chris.

They have different names. They all have a different trademark. We want to have patents, right? Patents bring value. We sold a company for $18 million that had 18 patents. It wasn't making that much money. Then, guess what? Contracts.

Vendor contracts. Manufacturing. Franchisors, by the way, we never finished that question. Franchisors, businesses sell like hotcakes. We get a franchisor that has 100, 200, 500 franchisees. They sell like this because everyone wants to buy a business that has multiple profit centers. Right. And so, but you have to have contracts.

And guess what? Client contracts, subscription model is where it's at, baby. Subscription model. You need as many people as you can on a reoccurring revenue stream. But guess what? Chris, all business owners make this huge mistake. They don't have the transferability clause in their contract. So 98% of all sales are asset, not stock.

So if your buyer doesn't agree to a stock sale, then you have to go to your clients and ask them to sign a consent to transfer. We have a media company that's got 2,000 clients. Holy crap. Plus, if you go to your clients, now they know you're selling your business and your deal might fall apart. That's true. They're like,

we like the old man. Collaborative endorsements are huge. We've got a client working with OFA. Competitors will pay, strategists will pay a lot of money for that because they want their products in front of the queen of everything, right?

Same thing with radio personalities. Same thing with you, Chris. You could probably be an influencer and endorse stuff. So all of that drives value. Number five, fees, patrons.

That's your client base. Most businesses follow the 80-20 rule where 80% of their revenues comes from 20% of their clients. You lose one client, two clients, you're in big trouble. This $55 million company we're selling

has 70% customer concentration in one retail chain. Holy crap. If they lose that, 70% of their revenue. I know. That's not good. The last few is profits. That's why we're all in business is to make money. We are? I can say, Chris, I am. That's not good. The last few is profits. That's why we're all in business is to make money.

We are? I can say, Chris, I am. Well, I'm in business to help people. I mean, I could retire if I wanted to. I'm in business to help. We'll follow you, speaker. But anyway, yeah, lack of profits is one of the problems. It's the symptom of not having the right people in place, being in a dying industry, not having your processes buttoned up, not protecting your

proprietary, your IP, and having to spend more money. Also, your IP should always be held in a separate corporation. What happens if you get sued? And everything's in the same corporation. So that's the six Ps. Yeah.

We used to always do C-Corps on all of our businesses. And people would be like, why do you do that? And I'd you know, we used to always do C-Corps on all of our businesses. And people would be like, why do you do that? All this stuff. And I'd be like, I don't know. It seems like a good idea. We just did it for protection. But, man, once we got really successful and then the lawsuits come when you're rich and successful.

That's what got you when you're small. Yeah, no one sues you when you're small. But, yeah, we learned what rich people warfare is. It's courts's courts and suits and you know and we were suing people too we we had a lot of sales people and you know they would steal like you know thousands of dollars of leads and so you know it it was we always had stuff going on some sort of shenanigans and people who leased our buildings you know we had issues with them so So, yeah, the C-Corp is really nice. It was really nice to sleep well at night when you're being sued over something. You know, we hired employees once, I think, that had what you would call contracts

where they couldn't work for somebody else. You know, all sorts of fun that you get. Anything more you want to touch on or tease out before we go? I would touch on, you know, one of the biggest things I always say, because a lot of times the bigger you get, the more problems you have, right, like you just mentioned. And so it's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you don't know.

And what got you here won't get you there. So if you've got a million dollar business and you're trying to go to a 10 million business, you're going to need a different coach, you're going to need a different mentor, you're going to need a different team. All they need is a different CEO. You see big corporations change out their CEOs

all the time. So the one thing that I always say is get a mentor to spend down the path you want to travel because that will shorten your learning curve dramatically. Learn from other people's mistakes. Don't learn from your own. And I always say it's hard to read the label from the inside of a bottle. You need an outsider's perspective to read the warning signs to keep you out of the danger

zone. I do that with vodka. I think I read from the inside of the label, the bottle. That's tequila for me. Is it? That's tequila? Not really. But at any rate, I encourage everybody to go get your audio book today, like now, at

Amazon, Apple, Barnes & Noble for $2.99. Send us an email to marketing at Siler Tucker. We'll make sure you get access to Siler Tucker Academy. Take the six-beat quiz at Siler Tucker Academy. You can contact us at silertucker.com and follow me on social media. It's Michelle Siler Tucker. And most importantly, listen to our podcast, Exit Ridge, where we interview million-dollar and billion-dollar exits.

We just had Peter Thompson, the founder of Snap Fitness, who sold twice, Chris. He sold the first Snap Fitness for $40 million, retaining equity. The second time he sold for $30 million. $70 million on one business is not bad. That is not bad at all. And we were chatting. I actually bought the book, the audio book. let me see if i can pull it up here it looks like it's uh giving me the whole

thing there so we got to get your book on the audible now so awesome everyone order it up and all that good stuff because this is really brilliant i mean like i said i i built my business totally wrong after finding out what but you know. But you know what? A lot of people have. It's not just me. You're not unique. Yeah. But you have me thinking, like I said, the new Chris Voss Leadership Institute is designed with not only dot coms, but so it can break down the name and be sellable. It's going to have consultants, of course, that will work for it for, you know, Leadership Institute consulting, all that sort of think tank crap. And that sounds great, huh? Think tank crap.

And so it's designed to be sellable. And it's because I had you on the show last year. And fun is fun, man. So people should definitely learn this. It's really important. Yeah, a thousand percent. So go out and get your audio book. $2.99.

Do not buy your cup of coffee today. Yeah. It's like four times the amount of $2.99, right? A cup of coffee. And then you can buy the read and go get the print version. You can get that as well on Amazon. There you go. Michelle, do we get all your final.coms in every place we want people to go check you out on the interwebs?

I think so, but I can say it again. If you want to buy the printed book, you can go to exitrichbook.com. Soldertrucker.com is our main website. SolidTruckerAcademy.com is where you can take the six-peat quiz to see how you score. What's your strongest piece? What's your weakest piece? There you go. It was wonderful to have you on once again, Michelle. I certainly appreciate you coming on board and saying hello to us again.

Thanks, Chris. Thanks very much. Thank you. It's always fun. Thank you. And thanks, Manas, for tuning in. Go to YouTube.com you. It's always fun. Thank you. And thanks for tuning in. Go to youtube.com for just Chris Voss. Be sure to refer this show to your family,

friends and relatives. Put your arm around them and say, you know, if you listen to Chris Voss show, it's the family that loves you, but doesn't judge you. The best kind of family there is. Go to goodreads.com for just Chris Voss.

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We'll see you guys next time. Stay safe. Bye-bye.