The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Fashion For Profit Perfect by Frances Harder

Episode Date: February 7, 2024

Fashion For Profit Perfect by Frances Harder Fashionforprofit.com Fashion For Profit 11th edition is a professional's complete guide to designing, branding, manufacturing a sustainable clothing collection & Marketing. Reviewed and validated by experts from within each specific crucial area of design, product development, finance, production, through to sales and marketing of a product. This 11th edition also includes the important steps to include the demand for sustainable products. Frances Harder authored and published a series of books dealing with starting a fashion business. Fashion for Profit (11 h edition), Costing for Profit (3 rd edition), Brand Building for Profit (3 rd edition), and downloadable all the Forms for Profit are industry focused texts used both by new companies and for further education programs. Consultant to the United Nations assisting small businesses: Peru- Alpaca products, (women owned businesses), Nepal - Cashmere products and assisting Egyptian apparel manufacturer enter the U.S. market. She consults and speaks internationally on product development, branding, merchandising, sustainability, costing, production and entering the US market. Serves as an industry expert witness in industry related legal disputes. Organizes and presents seminars at Sourcing at Magic trade shows-(22 years) Presents on a variety of topics and moderates

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Chris Voss, Facebook.com and chrisfoss1 on the TikTokity. We have another great author on the show. She's a multi-book author. She's got a lot of books that she's put out. Her latest came out January 23rd, 2023, and I believe it's an 11th edition update. It's called Fashion for Profit. Frances Harder is on the show with us today.

She's the author of the book and we're going to be talking about her and some of her insights, what she's learned over life, etc. She's also the CEO and founder of Fashion for Profit. She's authored and published a series of books dealing with starting a fashion business. Fashion for Profit is in its 11th edition. Costing for Profit is in its third edition. Brand Building for Profit is in its 11th edition costing for profit is in its third edition brand building for profit is in its third edition and downloadable all the forms for profit are industry focused text used both by new companies and for further education programs she's a consultant to the united nations assisting businesses like per Peru Alpaca Products, Nepal Cashmere Products,

and assisting Egyptian apparel manufacturer enter the U.S. market. She consults and speaks internationally on product development, branding, merchandising, sustainability, costing, production, and entering the U.S. market. Welcome to the show. How are you, Frances? Thank you so much. Thank you for this opportunity. Appreciate it. Thank you for coming. We really appreciate it. Give us all your dot coms. Where do you want people to follow you on the interwebs? My website is fashionforprofit.com. I'm also on Instagram, Facebook, the usual places. So, yeah, you probably

can find them easily, I would think. There you go. So, yeah, you probably can find them easily, I would think. There you go. So give us a 30,000 overview of this book. This is a revised book, I think, updated book. Is that correct? Yeah. The first edition was I wrote 20 years ago when I was a professor at Otis College of Art and Design and teaching fashion design.

And I realized that we were not teaching enough business. So that's where the incentive came from to create a class. And then from the class, the book was evolved. There you go. So tell us a little bit about your history of how you got into fashion. What got you down this road? How did you grow up and what influenced you? I'm originally from Manchester in England.

And my father was a textile chemist for ICI and invented some interesting things for rainproofing jackets and things. My mother was a fashion designer for her uncle, for her brother in Nottingham. So you can say it's probably in my blood. But I studied fashion design in Manchester and then from there went on to get jobs and move on. I was asked to go back teaching from the university I graduated from. So suddenly I had a dual career of both teaching and also being in the industry, which has been quite a journey. What drew you to fashion? I really wanted to be a graphic designer, to tell you the truth. My brother was.

My father said, my mother actually said, she said, oh, no, she said, do fashion design. You can always sew for your children. So, you know, that kind of made me change in my, you know, 18 years old to go to college. And I did study art for the first year. And then you had to go for the next three years into a dedicated program which was for me fashion design there you go I like to cover the book it's a young lady wearing a dress it's a very good looking dress but it's a it's a hundred dollar bill design so there you go fashion for profit there go. And you talk about sustainable design concept to apparel manufacturing and retailing, a complete guide for professionals.

So do you walk, give us more of a deeper dive on that and how you help people and what they can use that guide for. The guide basically lays out what you need to be thinking about when you're starting. You've got this brilliant idea. Where's it going to go? And how are you going to pay for it a lot of people don't realize that it costs money to start a business so you know i always sort of try to lay out okay you've got your sampling to do you've got to buy the fabrics you know so it's going to add up so the more you know then the less possibility of you making mistakes and losing money so you know i've seen so many people who come into this industry and have no idea or they may have an idea but they

don't understand the financial side so the book takes you through everything you need to the overview and then the legal side what you need to prepare and then on top of that, laying out the descriptions of the production process. Now, you mentioned sustainability, which I was just on my phone call with somebody, and they're doing transparency for sustainability because people can say, oh, yeah, my product's sustainable. Now they want to be able to track it and make sure that it is sustainable. So there's many, many changes. I would say, Chris, actually, over the last few years,

it's accelerated to the point where it's almost a different industry. The stores are not selling as much. The big department stores, as you probably heard, a lot of them are closing. They canceled orders in China, so there were warehouses full of goods that were ready to be shipped and my chinese friend in who has a factory in china he had to close the factory you know the impact of what's happening is really being infected all around the world so you really need to really have an understanding of how the industry's changed and how it's going

to affect you and i do say to new companies, it's actually a good time to start a business because we're seeing people buying smaller quantities, the stores, retailers, and you can sell direct now. So you don't have to have that 120% markup. If you're selling a wholesale price at 50 and they're selling that store, we're selling at 120. If you can sell it for 50, you're going to have a better audience so there are and you're more nimble as well when you're starting out so there are some very good opportunities for new companies

if you've got the right idea there you go and so you there's no room for error so much as maybe there used to be before with some of the consolidation you're talking about that's really interesting i know i know sustainability is a big deal, especially with the younger generations and what they're buying. I think, what's the other thing? Child workers and stuff. Sometimes you see companies get in trouble for that. Ex-worker exploitation of young workers, I think. That seems to be a big deal.

And being able to trace the sustainability factors and who's working on them from front to back, I guess, is a big deal as well. Yes. There's a very good example of having a good business, and that's with Los Angeles Apparel. Dov Charney, his factory downtown, they work in teams. So you'll see Mildred's team, and they'll have a flag and they'll show you Mildred's earning $17 an hour and another one over here which is earning something similar.

But what they're also doing, he's printing the picture of the sewer in the backs of the garment. So you can see what Mildred sewed that. So it kind of puts a personal pretty good. There you go. I don't know if i don't know if i want somebody looking over my shoulder though all the time that no that that makes sense

there you know who you know who made your shirt so if it starts coming unraveled you know who to call for you go back for the night darn it bob i have to look at you every time i take my shirt off so there you go so basically someone who's interested in entering the fashion business navigating all the pitfalls or avoiding you know navigating to avoid the pitfalls i should say you don't want to hit the pitfalls they can grab your book and they can go through a front to back guide on beginning to end on how to build fashion for profit anything more you want to tease out on that book and i want i want to touch on some of your other books basically you know it's on this 11th edition so i do update it and i've added the sustainability it. Anything more you want to tease out on that book? And I want to touch on some of your other books. Basically, it's on its 11th edition, so I do update

it and I've added the sustainability aspect. It also, I've written a teacher's guide, so if professors or teachers wish to use it, I've written a guide for a 12-week or a 16-week classes with everything in it, with quizzes and everything like that.

Now, I noticed on your website you have forms and consultancy is that is that program that multi-week program is that the fpp or is that a separate thing the forms are what we used to have them on a cd so when you bought the package you would get the cd with all the forms the contracts and everything. Of course, no one's got CD players anymore now, so we just email them electronically the 50-odd forms. It's got cost sheets and your tech packs and all the forms you need legally, those types of things. People don't realize that you have to have in California and in New York a manufacturer's license,

so that's usually something that could be a problem. There you go, definitely. So let's talk about some of your other books that you have up here that are on your site you have brand building for profit and costing for profit does costing play into the fashion sense of it oh hell yeah or is it just for any business no it's for fashion so it I mean clothing and it lays out what you need to be thinking about for your cost sheet, whether you know you're putting in your overheads and how much yardage, how much it's costing to sew it. So, you have to have a good cost sheet to realize what's your markup

so that you can make some money from it. So, doing a cost sheet, not just estimating, very, very important. There you go. Yeah, you've got to know what your costs are. Otherwise, you know, you can spend a lot of money. There's probably a lot of fashion people that have have done that wrong where they get a lot of rising costs and then they end up foaming the football. Your other book is branding, brand building for profit. Is that targeted again towards the fashion industry it's basically the both of them are smaller accompanying books to the main book and it's

written they're written in very sort of simple terms so the branding is what you need to be thinking about when you think of what's your name of the company how are you going to think of a logo how are you going to think about promoting your brand obviously is very important you know when they come up and they choose a name like a french name you know if you can't say it they're not going to remember it so you think of brands that you know are really really good you can understand them you know you've got nike and whatever you know all these names that roll off your tongue but if it's something you, whatever, it's not going to work. So, yeah, think of names that people will resonate against and hopefully will pick up and remember.

There you go. You know, it's funny. I can think of one company that I really enjoy and I love their sound service, but their name is Qobuz, which is actually French. They're a French company, but they're worldwide now like Spotify or Apple Music or Tidal, who's also a big thing. And they have some of the highest quality high-res music in the world. But for the longest time, I couldn't pronounce their name and it's Q-O-B-U-Z. And I'm like, I don't even know how to tell my friends that I like this, but you bring up a massive point when you name companies. Cause I'll see that in restaurants. I'll see that at all sorts of businesses. When I walk around, like, I don't know how to pronounce your name.

And even then it's so insanely complicated. I don't want to spell it for people. And then, you know, you want, like you said, that word of mouth where you can say hey you know hey go over to my favorite place italian joint you know everybody like everyone can remember olive garden right but you know if you've got something that's really complicated you know go over to hawaii hawaii you know i don't know you make up some sort of whatever but you know we've seen those and i see those in business all the time and i'm like i can't even remember their names to like google them like where's that restaurant i wanted to go to i drove by the other day i i can't google i can't remember the name and so yeah brand building is so important in everything yeah i mean in fashion to your

in fashion to your brand because online you really have to be a brand, right? You have to develop your Instagram and your TikTokity and all that other stuff. Yeah, and I also advise them to hook up to some nonprofit that you can maybe donate to. That way they would possibly help you also with your own marketing because they will market you on their site if you're donating goods or money or a portion of your sales. And that's another good thing to think about. Definitely, definitely. And it's funny. You see people that do these branding mistakes, and you're just like, I don't know.

I don't know how that's going to work out. And sometimes I'll see them go out of business. So tell us about some of the offerings that you have on your website. I see there's some here. You've got some events, the FPP, which we mentioned, and forms and stuff. Tell us about what some of the offerings are and what you help people with there. Besides the business startup package, which is the three books and the forms, next week is a big show in Vegas.

So I'm going to be there for three days presenting seminars for magic in their sourcing zone, which is a lovely show. It's a big show. Anybody show it is. It is the convention center. It's amazing. And two times a year now,

didn't you? February, August, February. So it's a great time to network and to sort of source your goods and meet people who could possibly help you. And so I recommend anyone thinking about going. And they also do amazing educational seminars while you're there, which I will be doing. I'll have a booth as well.

So there's a lot going on. So it's a good way for you to meet people. The end of February, they've got the textile show in LA so I'll be doing some sessions for them as well you know it's gonna be three buildings do do you know the booth number you'll be adding off the top of your head we can give it on the show when you come in the door for sourcing I'm right there you can't miss it oh you're right by the door that's smart that's smart get that door well that's usually they put me there oh there you go well that's a bit of luck because usually that's the first like when we do shows and go interview ceos

and stuff that's usually you know we usually turn to the right or turn the left and whichever booth is kind of most interesting and then we just kind of work the room in a circular pattern or semicircle or a verse circle but so that's a good place to be plus they can't leave without walking by your booth so there you go there you just get yourself a vaudeville hook so you can grab them say hey you just have to stop here or else you don't get to go through put a couple big bouncers by the door and say have you talked to this lady yet okay you can't leave until you do so there you go there you go there you go you can you know just just just i don't know there's a few jokes here so on the events the fpp that's the magic show correct that's one of the events yeah

okay one of the ends so i see i see you've got a whole schedule of stuff up here. So you've got the Los Angeles Fabric Show. You've got the Magic and some domestic production. We were just talking, I guess, on domestic production in August. You're speaking about nearshoring or was this in the last year? Nearshoring, yeah, we were talking about last year. Yeah, we had the CEO of CES Show, CTA. Gary Shapiro appears in the show every year. And we were talking about nearshoring.

And I think there might be some stuff that's in my book. And it's really interesting and what's going on there. Let me ask you this because we've talked about in the show about what's going on with nearshoring. Are you seeing more stuff move from China to Mexico, I think, is where it's – Mexico and vietnam i think are and you're picking up stuff now yeah but the chinese are building the factories in vietnam so it's still chinese but but nearshoring and domestic definitely there's a lot going on with that and as far as could be columbia could be guatemala of course and then you've got speed to market because people are wanting the deliveries that they're ordering more often, shorter or smaller orders more often. So if you can near shore, that means that you have the possibility of getting the goods shipped to you in a timely manner.

Having it made domestically, of course, is ideal, but probably will agree with me on this. And I find it pretty sad that we've not invested in our own infrastructure we basically invested in other countries in infrastructure by buying cheap goods right so it's really sad to see which was a vibrant industry downtown la and they you know the buildings are so old that you've got really old infrastructure. You can hardly get a truck down the back alley. And it's time that they invested in their own infrastructure. I know some companies are building brand new factories with robot sewers.

There's some very good innovation going on. But of course, that all takes investment. And you've got to find the investors to do that. Yeah. So do you see maybe artificial intelligence, AI or more robotics changing the industry? I mean, imagine, you know, robotics might be able to sew something faster.

I don't know if that would be true. Definitely. That's already there. And they can go 24 hours a day. They don't get tired. So unless they blow a fuse or a gasket. Yep. Big changes. There you go.

I blow a gasket every Friday around here, but that's just Fridays. Just need a big drink. There you go. If you have too much to drink, you will blow a gasket. I won't explain that joke. I said have a drink. There you go. She is not advocating for alcoholism.

Neither am I, because I drank pretty hard for 20 years. But there you go. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see. Artificial intelligence, AI, seems to be speedlining a lot of stuff, slimming down timelines. The biggest problem we seem to be seeing ever since COVID is supply chain issues. I just about spit out my drink when you said that China's building the near shoring in Vietnam.

Yeah. I was like, I guess that just makes sense, right? In Africa, too. In Africa, yeah. They've been dominating in resource claiming in Africa for decades now. And, you know, I mean, if you don't pay them back, they just take your port back or your airport. It's like repossessing it.

You're like, wait, what? But that's the way they roll. But, you know, maybe they should just buy the whole continent there. Maybe it's up for sale. Somebody should because there's a lot of resources there. If it wasn't for AIDS, that continent would have been just a thriving economy by now. But AIDS wiped out, I think it was one in three people or one in four people, 25% of their population. In Africa?

Yeah, in Africa. And it just crippled the future of that country, which was sad. Because they have so many resources. They have so much stuff they can do there. And of course, the civil wars don't help at all either. So there you go. I know, you know, Mexico is supposed to become a place for offshore, for near shoring and, you know, anything to bring the cost down from what it takes, you know, the, the Houthis little battles we're having and dealing with right now, if you're watching this video years from now, you know, that's raising the cost of shipping goods to the United States

and other places around the world. I'm sure it's going to raise the cost of things. And then, of course, one of the other factors is the cost of hiring people to do stuff. Here in America, we have a shortage of American workers, so the cost of hiring workers is going through the roof. So it'll be interesting. What final offerings and stuff do you do? One-on-one consulting or coaching or anything on the service you provide to people?

Oh, yeah. And in fact, at the show when you buy the package, I give you like 30 minutes free consultation to sort of help them get going. And then if they're interested, they can buy the package and work with them for a certain amount of time or whatever. Some of the people I'm still working with. So it's great. There you go. There you go. So give us your final pitch out to people to order up the books, reach out to you to work with you in the future. Yes. If anyone's interested, they can check out my website, fashionforprofit.com. And I will be in Vegas, as you say, and you can reach out through email if you want or through the contact.

My email is frances at fashionforprofit. And as far as new people starting out, if you're coming with training, that's great, but also you need to understand the business side. Often they don't. How to make a cost sheet is really important. For those coming with business development it's also important that they understand what is happening within the clothing industry where best to go i mean i've had people come to me for consulting and one lady came in she was a banker and she wanted to do more interesting clothing

for women in banking and professional wear and she spent 58 000 on having samples made and she rolled them in to show me and it was like oh my god you can't use any of these it was made so badly so one thing i would stress is please check out whoever it is that you're working with get references find out who they've worked with before and check them out. And that goes for everybody, whether it's someone sewing for you or if you eventually are looking for sales, you need to find a sales rep, check them out, go and do your due diligence. It's really important to find the people. And once you've found the key people, then they are the ones that can really help you accelerate your business.

There you go. And like you said, making mistakes can be bad. I've had friends that have done clothes. And sometimes they've done a run with $100,000, $200,000 worth of clothes. And for some reason, when it gets delivered, it's not what they agreed to. And there's all sorts of issues through the pipeline that go on or sometimes deception and stuff. And so eating that amount of clothes sometimes almost put them out of business. Okay.

So an important part is if you are producing offshore, you should have an agent inspect the goods before it's shipped and you pay like a 6% on top to have an agent, which it pays. If you have an agent, check out your goods before it shipped and you pay like a six percent on top to have an agent which it pays if you have an agent check out your goods before it shipped is that okay you're going from a production sample are these samples made are these garments made to the production sample and so you you know really pays to have someone like that rather than having a good shift and you find out that you've actually got a warehouse full of, I was going to say shit, but I mean, you know, you've really got to know. You just did.

I know, I know. We love smearing on the show. You read my mind. There you go. This is kind of funny. I was going to say shit, but. So there you go. You know, the cost of, what was the thing I had?

The cost of the shipping containers now, I know I saw a graph the other day, and it is soared, the cost to ship and use shipping containers. Like, it just went like this. So, it's a big deal, I'm sure, to look at some of this stuff. And, you know, you've got a you know factor those in so well six percent seems a little high to have the goods inspected i imagine you know tacking on the cost of shipping containers just can make it far worse if you're not careful during covert they really went ridiculous the cost of a container they've gone down a little bit now, but, you know,

I think you've really got to look into wherever you're making your goods. Yeah, I don't think that Houthi thing is helping you, that Houthi war where they're shooting at stuff in the Red Sea and the pirates, the piratings that have been going on in Somalia. You know, it's not all good. That's why I stay home.

I don't like pirates. I'm against pirates. That's why I don't cruise either. I'm against pirates. I've watched that Pirates of the Caribbean too many times. Yeah, no, that's why I say starting out, try and produce domestically. You know, knowing the people that you can work with. And I've got some good people I work with and recommend. I've got some bad people I don't recommend,

but there are some really good people out there. You've got a list. Yes. There you go. And it depends on what part of the country you're in as well. Ah, there you go. There you go. So, Frances, thank you very much for coming on the show.

We really appreciate it. You're very welcome. I just want to say one thing as far as my journey you were asking about has been very exciting. I've been very lucky. And honestly, it's all been about networking. I can't stress it enough for students, young people. They need to know my first job interning opened up doors to a full-time job. My teaching started after I graduated college and they asked me to go back. So you never know who is going to be there for you to open up a door. And so I say to young people all the time, important to get out, network, meet people, volunteer your time. Doors will open for you.

There you go networking is everything whether it's a social structure for your personal life or business you know knowing people shaking hands you know the more opportunities you have in that circle that you expand it and widen it just you never know who you're going to meet and and sometimes you meet somebody you're just saying i don't know about this person whatever but they can turn into a really viable, sometimes super important, sometimes they make or break your company, you know, contact. And so you just never know. And so you've got to turn those numbers and find those diamonds in the mine there. I know my own journey from, you know,

designing for Priscilla Presley and designing for the Sultan of Brunei and having my name under license, all those things occurred because I met people who opened up the door for me, you know, and then it still goes. And here we are today. There you go. Thank you very much for coming on.

Thanks to our audience for tuning in. Order up her books, wherever fine books are sold. Fashion for Profit, January 23rd, 2023, and it's an 11th edition. It just keeps right on selling, folks. Frances Harder has been on the show with us today. Go to goodreads.com, 4ChessCrispFoss, linkedin.com, 4ChessCrispFoss, crispfoss1 on the TikTokity, and crispfossfacebook.com.

Be good to each other, stay safe, and we'll see you guys next time. Thank you so much.