The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Five-Dog Epiphany: How a Quintet of Badass Bichons Retrieved Our Joy by Marianne Leone

Episode Date: August 21, 2024

Five-Dog Epiphany: How a Quintet of Badass Bichons Retrieved Our Joy by Marianne Leone https://amzn.to/4cH6z32 A new installment in best-selling author Ann Hood’s Gracie Belle imprint, actress Marianne Leone’s (The Sopranos, etc.) memoir explores how a bereaved couple and a pack of rescue dogs rediscovered joy IN FIVE-DOG EPIPHANY, MARIANNE LEONE writes about the joy that can be summoned after a great loss, "when you look into the eyes of another damaged creature and know that your happiness is a mirror and an echo and a prayer, and that the little soul reflecting all that energy is happy too, at last." This memoir is a moving and sometimes surprisingly funny exploration of grief and the mutual healing that can occur between rescue dogs and people who have experienced a soul-crushing loss. Leone and her husband, actor Chris Cooper, lost their only child suddenly in 2005. Jesse was seventeen, a straight-A student, and a brilliant poet, who was also quadriplegic and nonverbal except with the assistance of a computer. When six-year-old Jesse miraculously blurted "dog" to Santa, Goody appeared on his bed on Christmas morning. Goody was followed by Lucky, Frenchy, Titi, and Sugar, all rescues adopted after Jesse’s passing. After Jesse’s death, Leone grew a tumor the size of her premature son at birth, her husband disappeared into dark acting roles (Breach, Married Life), and Leone fainted during the filming of a scene in The Sopranos where she is standing in front of her television son’s coffin. This is the story of a bereaved couple and a pack of rescue dogs finding their way to a new life, everyone licking their wounds, both corporal and spiritual, and the rediscovery of joy.

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Welcome to the Big Show, my family and friends. Being here for 16 years, 2,000 episodes, we've been bringing you all the smartest people, the greatest authors, the people who are putting out some of the greatest stories, things that can motivate you to improve the quality of your life, learn better how to do things, or just entertain you when it really comes down to it as well. And today we have an amazing young lady on the show.

We're going to be talking about her new book. She's a multi-book author, and she's done a few to it as well. And today we have an amazing young lady on the show. We're going to be talking about her new book. She's a multi-book author, and she's done a few other things as well. Her newest book is out September 3rd, 2024. It's called Five Dog Epiphany. How a quintet of badass Bichons retrieved our joy by Marianne Leone. She joins us on the show today. We'll be talking to her about her book. She's got an amazing career as well.

She is an American film and television actress, screenwriter, and essayist. Her longest running recurring role, you may remember, was on The Sopranos, Christopher's mother. And everyone remembers that show. What a great show that was. So we're going to be talking to her about her new book. Welcome to the show, Marianne. How are you? I'm very well. Thank you. How are you, Chris? I am excellent as well. And we're here to talk about my favorite subject, dogs, because I love dogs. Do you have a dog? I have two Huskies. Beauties. So yeah, I live in the land of shedding fur all the time that's that's the new title of my next bio book the land of shedding fur so give us your dot coms marianne

where can people find you on the interwebs okay so my much neglected website which is being updated as we speak is www.marianneleonecooper.com because there was another Marianne Leone who spelled her name exactly like mine. And so I used my husband's last name, Cooper. And I'm on Instagram as atdrega54. And thread's the same. And yeah, that's about it. And we should get a plug in for your husband too who's a famous actor as well.

Yes. There you go chris cooper yeah american beauty remember that movie whoa that was something else better he is a wonderful man also there you go there you go it's good to be married a wonderful man i hear for the ladies yes that's always good i always remember that last that ending lines in american beauty about about life and appreciating life it always keeps me grateful when I think of loss, when I lose things. So let's get into Five Dog Epiphany. Tell us a 30,000 overview of your new book.

It's really because, you know, we lost our son, Jesse, at age 17. Jesse was born prematurely, 10 weeks early. And on the third day of his life, he developed, he had a massive brain bleed. And so he developed cerebral palsy after that. And, you know, we lived in New York City, we moved out to Hoboken. But when he came of age to go to school, we moved to Massachusetts, because this was pre-internet. I couldn't really do that much research. But what I found out was that Massachusetts was above the national average for inclusion for kids with disabilities. And New York had 7% inclusion, which was terrible.

And so we moved here, but then we moved to the one town that had a special ed director who basically didn't believe in inclusion and was quoted as saying, why should we spend money on these kids? They don't give anything back to society. Never piss off an Italian mother. I will kill you. I said to my husband, he's getting a dead horse's head in his bed and he's not going to have a job when I'm done with him. And there were six lawsuits that year and he lost his job.

And Jesse went to school and he was on the honor roll every month, every semester. And he wrote beautiful poetry, but he was nonverbal and used a wheelchair. But one thing he did say to Santa Claus when he was six years old, with every fiber of his being, he said, dog. And I turned to Chris and said, he's getting a dog. So we did the wrong thing because we didn't know about, we didn't know about puppy mills then. This was like 94. So we go to the mall and we get little Goody, who Jesse named, but he was from a puppy mill. And they're unhealthy, these dogs,'re they're born to breeder mothers who are bred over and over again but as long as jesse was alive he was jesse's first sibling and

they were thick as thieves the two of them oh that was great it made him happy oh totally they swam together they did everything together and yeah anyway after Jesse died, I was like a living embodiment of the body keeps the score. And I threw a giant tumor the size that Jesse was at birth. Oh, wow. A preemie, three and a half pounds. And Goody died the day after that surgery to remove what I called the not Jesse. And so I was recovering, you know, like some neurasthenic Victorian lady on the sofa watching television. And I just felt, I started looking at Pet Finder again, and I found these two orphans of the storm, Lucky Dog and French Fry. And we

got our first rescues, Lucky Dog and French Fry. And then they were with us. I know they had very silly names, but they were in the poor things were in a puppy mill for the first three years of their lives. They were with us 13 years. They both died at 17 during the COVID lockdown. And I said to Chris, you know, a dogless household is bleak. We're in lockdown. And he was like, I'm still mourning Frenchie. I was like, yeah, but.

So, yeah. So, we got these two dogs, girl dogs from Louisiana with pole dancer names, Titi and Sugar. I did not name them, as I keep explaining to people. And the thing is, Titi was Sugar. I did not name them, as I keep explaining to people. And the thing is, Titi was a fear-biter, so nobody was adopting her, because she had been kept in a cage for six years, was a breeder, giving up one litter after another. And the owner, who I dream of my revenge on this guy, let the harness grow into her flesh. So she was a fear biter after that. And nobody was adopting her, but of course we adopted her. And also we paired her with another dog because we had learned from Lucky and Frenchie that it's kind of great to have two dogs because, you know, you go out and you're gone for a few hours you come back

your dog's looking at you like where have you been i've been so bereft you know and that ended when we had lucky and frenchie who barely looked up from there the chaise lounge which is their 1500 dog bed i mean basically they appropriated our chaise lounge they have a habit of doing that yeah yeah so this is this is interesting i can never name a dog french fry or sugar oh god because every time i would call their name i'd be like i want to go to mcdonald's i shouldn't go to mcdonald's but you know they fill your heart now these were were these the start of the bichons these five bichons that you write about you know you get hooked on a breed, basically. I wanted that first, you know, goody because I had looked up what would be good for a kid in a wheelchair.

They're, you know, they're lap dogs. They don't shed. They look like Muppets, which Jesse loved. They're not huskies. Yeah. Although I love all dogs, I do. Yeah. And cats.

And even foxes. Yeah, I love themes that I've tried to lure into my pack with no success. The more I get to know humans, the more I love dogs. There you go. It's absolutely true. Yeah, so it gets into it. You know, my family had the same experience. My fourth sister was born with complications. They think she may have choked on something coming down the pipe and cut off her airways.

And she was black and blue coming out. And so they whisked her away right away. She had brain damage, cerebral palsy. She could see, but she couldn't see. So if she looked in the light, she could see shadows moving. And so we had a similar experience. She lived to about 40. And it wasn't a fun life for her.

Jesse, on the other hand, went everywhere. I mean, his dad had these great locations, right? So here's the kid in L.A. He's in Italy. He's in Prague, you know, and here's this little boy who was more sophisticated than any of the kids in his class because, I mean, the guy never flew coach in his life. I mean, not because of us. It was because, you know, they would fly us to wherever Chris's locations were. But, yeah, I mean, he went everywhere and did everything we could do for him, you know.

There you go. So tell us a little bit about yourself. We like to get into the author as well. Tell us about how you were raised, how you grew up. Did you grow up with dogs? What kind of shaped you into getting into being an actor? I'm a first generation. My parents were Italian immigrants.

And I grew up in this place seven miles outside of Boston where everybody who was Italian was from the same village, this little tiny village in Italy. And there's still quite a sizable population like that. They still paint the Italian flag down the main drag every year for their festa, you know. And I grew up there. And my immigrant parents sadly thought that how good can public school be? It's free. So they sent me to Our Lady Help of Christians, which was 13 years of hell. It's free. How good can it be? It's free. Exactly, because in Italy, you pay for everything but the air you breathe, right? They sent me to parochial school, which was not great for me because the only books we read

were Lives of the Saints and books on leprosy. And the nuns would not give you a recommendation for a non-Catholic college. Oh, wow. Unless you were good. I ended up going to a state college on my own. Were you scarred from the religious experience? Oh, my. are you kidding me? They didn't hit me because my mother would have killed them, but they, I am of the same ilk, but they were, I mean, they did tell us horrible stories like, will you be able to stand up and defend your faith when the Chinese communists ram bamboo shoots down your fingernails and put garden hoses up to your ear and turn them on full blast and of course i knew i'd turn in my parents in a heartbeat so i never slept again after that i was just the guilt the guilt it was huge and the fear was bad too i mean jeez it's a horrible mantle to have to wear as a child you're like you know it's like when you're watching you're a kid and you're

watching you know the the fire bear what's his name you know he's smoking yeah smoky the bear he's only you can prevent forest fires you're like me i'm just a kid i'm 10 years old why why is this for me but i was i just lay awake every night i was afraid that the blessed virgin would appear to me because i was really well aware that any of the kids that saw her kind of didn't live to adulthood. You know what I mean? So I thought it would be. I'm easy laying in bed hoping the Blessed Virgin appears. I don't know what that means.

Anyway, so there you go. So how do you eventually, go ahead. Yeah, so that was my upbringing. And then I go to new york i i i take an acting class in first i think i want to be a journalist you know which is probably good that i wasn't because i'm so judgmental but i it was instead i took an acting class and thought this this is it and then we had to go on retreat before we could graduate, kind of going up before a parole board. And they actually, I don't know why, but they showed La Strada with Julieta Messina. And I

thought, I want to do what she's doing. I'm doing that. And so I went to New York and I met my husband in acting class. Ah, there you go. There you go. Which acting school did you go to? It wasn't a school. It was taught by Wynn Handman, who ran the American Place Theater. Do you know, are you familiar with that theater? He gave a lot of people their star at Sam Shepard and John Leguizamo. And anyway, he was great. And I was getting class free in exchange for keeping the very long waiting list. And one night, the guy from the mid-level class comes in exchange for keeping the very long waiting list. And one night, the guy from the mid-level class comes in with this very scared, rabbity-looking guy who doesn't even look me in the eye.

And he says, this guy's starting tonight. And I say, no, because I have this huge list. And he says, no, he's starting. And it was Chris. And he did a monologue. And then Wynn said, wow, does that guy know how good he is? And I was like, damn, he's in. You almost blocked your husband's career? I know.

I know. So bad. Wow. At least you made up for it, technically, I guess. Yeah, yeah. Somewhere or another. LaStrada, Julietta Messina? Yeah.

There you go. What was it that you liked about her? She looked lit from within. She just was lit from within. And I wanted to shine like that. Britney Spears does that sometimes. Anyway, I don't know what that means. Sometimes it involves knives.

Anthony Quinn, what a great actor he was too in the movie as well. I always loved him as an actor. I don't know why. He was wonderful. I just thought he was great. He was so powerful on the screen. So there you go. To take a job with Fellini and be dubbed was pretty on the screen so there you go to take a job with Fellini

and be dubbed was pretty amazing yeah there you go so you you've how did you get on the Sopranos that's what was really weird was I had acted before that but then when we had Jesse I started writing because we couldn't both be away and Chris was getting a lot of work at the time so I submit my scripts through a writing agent and they're interested in the scripts, but then I get a call from my acting agent. My acting agent doesn't work much for me and says, they want to see you. And I go in and there's David Chase and I want to fall to my knees and worship him because I think the show is so well written. I can't even, you know, and

my agent calls after the audition. I say, oh, I totally blew it because I was like reverential to David Chase. And he's like, oh, you got the job. They really liked you. So that was cool. And then on the set, you know, everybody, because we've all been typed out, right? You're too ethnic for anything else. Chef Boyardee commercials. So we also all knew each other in a lot of ways. So it was kind of a great setting to be in. It was probably great to work with a lot of those great actors that were on that show. Totally.

Totally. I was really bummed when Once His Face Died. Oh, James Gandolfini. Yeah. He was lovely. And you want to hear something really weird was when we moved to Hoboken with baby Jesse, we rented a brownstone.

His father owned the brownstone. And this was before he was famous. I remember him saying, yeah, my son wants to be an actor. I don't think he's gonna get anywhere. And then I saw him at a premiere and I was like, hey, Mr. Gandolfini, remember when you told me you didn't think your

son would get anywhere he was like i remember i first saw him and noticed him in oh what was the john travolta movie that was the comedy mob movie that was so good i remember the yeah it was get get shorty and he played the he played the kind of bouncer stuntman dude to one of the actors there. But there was something about him on the screen. He's lovely. He's a beautiful, kind man. And he was able to do every aspect of that role beautifully. As were everybody on that set.

I really enjoyed all the people I worked with. And then you were in my favorite movie. One of my favorite movies. Godfather has to take number one, of course, but Goodfellas. Yeah, except, except, Chris, all that's left of me is my name in the credits. Oh, really? Oh, I was in three scenes with dialogue, all cut. Sue.

I'm not going to sue because I get residuals. Really? That's freaking awesome. And I got Scorsese's mother's meatball recipe, too, because she was sitting right beside me in the mob makeup scene. Yeah. Where she was, like, giving me her ultimate Sicilian meatball recipe. And you couldn't argue with her and say, but this is how. No, no, this was it.

And also yelling to her son, Marty, how long we got to wait here? Marty. Yeah, I think I saw his mother. There was like a documentary. Oh, yeah, Italian American. That was a great documentary. And how he always put his mother in the movies. Yes.

And it was just so funny to watch how she's definitely a strong woman. And, you know, speaking of dogs, Edie Falco, who blurbed my book, she used to bring her dog to set all the time. There you go. Yeah. So at what point do you become the five dog family? When does this start? Well, we never had five dogs at once.

It was just one after another. Okay. So it's a compilation. Yes. Yes. It's all the dogs. Dogs and dealing with grief. What do you find, you know, one of the problems I have is the loss of dogs being grief yeah and that's that's

a whole that's a whole bucket of worms i think i think i've grieved more over my dogs than i have any relatives or anybody close to me once it's a child though you never get over that ever ever ever and and but the dogs you're right i mean you grieve them because they're family members and they each have their unique little personalities. But it wasn't grieving the passing of these dogs that I wanted to highlight and started to become full-fledged dogs and experience joy you experience some kind of reflected joy from that you know what i mean the first time i saw tt playing with a ball i cried because she didn't have any toys in that cage she didn't you know what i mean and the first time i saw her on her back doing that thing that

dogs do when they go into an ecstasy you you know, which I call dog-asms. I mean, I was just never so happy as to see that. It eased something in me to see her, you know, come back from that. And she's discovering she is our dog that we have now, who is the most abused of any dog that I've ever had with the harness growing into her flesh and all. But to see her every day, discovering something new, like we took her, you know, I dropped the leash a long time with her because she knows where the chicken is. She stays with us. And we were walking in the Bay Farm, which is this beautiful Bayside place where Jesse's ashes are even there. And I saw her, She spotted a rabbit. And she ran off. And then she came running back.

I saw a rabbit. But now I'm coming back. We were like, it was just so wonderful to see. That's what you're supposed to be doing as a dog. Exactly. The coming back part, too. Tell that to my dogs. My dogs are huskies.

So when they go for something, they never come back. That's why Sugar, the other dog who has Terrier, she's leashed. Because she'll be like squirrel and gone. She's got that gone. Yeah. You know, animals tend to heal us. My animals made me a better person, I think, which is saying something because I probably, people in the audience are like, he still needs work.

I'm seeing a therapist. Leave me alone. But for 16 years, he's needed help. We all knew. But, you know, they have a way of crawling into your soul and changing you my my huskies changed me they made me a better person they made me more empathetic i think i was a pretty i think probably picked up a little bit of narcissistic from my from my father but i used to be really i don't know just a logic and reason sort of emotionless sort of dude i'm like i'm sure people know i love them because i do things for them sort of thing

and my dogs really open me up to humanness and kindness and and the fact that they know when you're hurting oh it's really stressed it's amazing and they come and they're like hey if you pet us you'll feel better yeah yeah just play with us a bit tt and i have had these long heart-to-hearts just without words of course and i you know i see her she they immediately came to sleep with us which the other dogs never did these two are like if i get my water at night tt's like all all right, hurry up, hurry up. She's going to bed. Let's go. Let's go. And they jump up on the bed and there's a memory quilt on the bed of Jessie's t-shirts. And the first time I saw her on her back in ecstasy on

the t-shirt, I thought, oh my God, this is like Jessie's healing her and she's healing me. It was beautiful. It was like this transmission of just something beautiful through all of that. There you go. And you've written a couple books. You wrote the story of your son, Jesse, Knowing Jesse, A Mother's Story of Grief, Grace, and Everyday Bliss. I think people that have lost a child can appreciate that. Ma Speaks Up, A First-Generation Daughter Talks Back. My mother was an amazing woman.

She came here at the age of 16 to avoid, to get away from fascism, kind of ironic, and an arranged marriage to an old man. And she meets my father, and they marry, and they're very much in love. But my father died young, 50. And she meets my father and they marry and they're very much in love. But my father died young, 50. And she was 43. English is a second language. No marketable skills outside of cooking, which she was a fantastic cook. And three kids. So she starts cooking in this kind of mob restaurant.

And then she becomes a bookie. Oh, wow. Yeah. She was just a riot. And we still, my girlfriends and I still quote her because she was so fun. I mean, when she meets Chris, she's, I don't know what you see in her. She goes, walk around, smoke, talk, act crazy. She's kind of right, but.

Wow. Yeah. And when she met Chris, she was like, she anybody who wasn't italian must be irish because where we were from it was mostly irish and italian so she'd continually be like chris you like a drink you know she wanted to know if he yeah there you go there you go you guys have lived an amazing life and dogs just make it so much better i imagine you're you're you're a big proponent for rescue adoption totally totally i mean what you can do to empty those first of all if you bought a puppy from a breed or spay the puppy you know don't create more dogs that end up in in rescue you

know in kennels and i'm a big proponent of that. Definitely. Yeah. You know, when we were interviewed for Lucky and Frenchie, this lady came in and she, you know, they give you this interview to see if you're worthy. And she told me she had nine Pomeranians, and I did judge her at the time.

But now I feel, I certainly have been like, yeah, I could have more Bichons. That's a new bar for you. Wait, wait. Really good. I can only handle two at a time because I have two hands. Yes, I hear you. When both of them come to me and they're like, we both want attention.

And of course they compete. So if one comes for attention, the other one has to come for attention. They both have to come at once. And I only got two hands, so've got to be able to pet them. And I'll sit there and pet them. And sometimes they'll be in my office, and there's one on each side of the chair. Beautiful. You've got to pet us, Dad.

Get up and give us some treats and stuff. You know, they're always hustling. They're really smart, though, right? Yeah, they're a little too smart. Yes. And so I sit there petting them with both hands going, this is why I only have two dogs and I'd love to have more.

But I don't know how I would do this if all three were fighting for my attention. But they're just lovable. I sometimes have a dream of if I ever retired, I don't know,

I like working. I like what I do. But if I ever like retired, retired, semi-retired, I don't know what you call it but if i ever did that i would i'd love to do like a wolf save place or recovery beautiful save wolves or even just huskies have a like a hundred huskies or something and i clearly have to have enough money to pay for all the poop shoveling because i ain't doing that unless you get volunteers yeah i also get volunteers

so yeah you've got all that going on and and but i love dogs i mean it's just they're just so great i adore them and we had a fox that was coming to visit for a while i was feeding the fox and i thought can i get a canid and with the canines. But he went off on his own way. But I did get a picture of him smiling up at me, which was really cool. There you go. So what do you hope people come away with when they read your book?

It's not like a self-help book in that way. This is my own experience. But after we lost Jesse, I did want to read about other people, how they dealt with grief. And this is one way. It might not be your way. But I just wanted to write something that explained what that was like in our case.

And I don't purport to say that it's for everybody, but it's a unique story. Yeah. And it's a beautiful story. My dogs, in the times of my life that i've been challenged that i've i've dealt with loss i mean there was one point in 2008 we lost all of our companies we lost our businesses one biggest our biggest company was a mortgage company so that didn't fare well and 20 years of owning a mortgage company just all down the toilet overnight and everything else that we had

i mean the economy just came to complete stop and was like no we're not doing anything right so as an entrepreneur you're kind of screwed yeah but losing everything except for my dogs and my dogs being there with me through that experience i mean you just you just i mean they're just it's so cathartic and helping you get through those moments of loss and challenges of life and you know even even when i'm stressed or upset about something they come to me and they're like hey man you need to calm down or you're gonna have a heart attack or you need to give us treats yeah they hustle me every yes every time i go to the kitchen they're just like treat time girl dogs, you have no idea what these girls had going. They were bullying the hell out of me when I first got them.

I mean, Sugar perfected this low growl. She says, I'm going to sleep with you guys. I know your husband's a light sleeper, so I'm going to emit this low growl until you take me out. Miner Huskies, they bitch me out every morning before the treats when I'm trying to get up and hobble my way to the coffee maker. I'm like, my girlfriends will say I'm like a bear in the morning. So I'm just like, I'm just like a bear is coming out of hibernation and no one should talk to me.

No one should get near me. People will die if they're're gonna get the bear paw and so usually they're just barking at me and hustling me you know that that husky talk back yes they're very talkative aren't they they really yeah yeah they're a little too talkative sometimes no these girls i did finally train them not to wake me up and and what we did was because're insane, we moved from our very posh bedroom downstairs to the guest room upstairs because it's near the deck and I can just let them out onto the deck in the morning. Way easier than struggling into a coat in eight degree weather and taking them to the bay farm, right? This sounds like one of those things where the dogs train you. Absolutely.

They have totally trained me. If you're moving whole rooms where the dogs train you. Absolutely. They have totally trained me. If you're moving whole rooms in the house. Totally. Totally. And the cooking thing. It's like I cook for them. They get, you know, besides stealing, you know, Chris and I get invited to these, you know, charity things because he's a celebrity. And, you know, I've been to them where they're serving filet mignon.

I don't eat beef, but I usually, I've learned to take where they're serving filet mignon i don't eat beef but i usually i i've learned to take a plastic bag inside my fancy purse and not only my filet mignon goes in but maybe there'll be a captain of industry with half nod filet mignon and i will say are you finished with that and then that goes in the bag and it's just it does my heart it's karmic justice for these little imprisoned dogs to get filet mignon. You know what I mean? You go up to Steven Spielberg, hey, you going to finish that? Exactly.

You going to finish the steak there? I'm going to take that home to my dog. Yeah, this has been my MO for some time now. That's a good MO. I think everyone gets it and loves dogs. So give us your final thoughts and pitch out to people to pick up your book as we go out and the dot coms where people can find you on the interwebs. Well, what I want to say to people is that I know I'm talking about grief and I'm talking

about rescue dogs, but a lot of this book is funny because in my first book, I was never happier than when Dennis Leary said, I laughed and I cried and then I laughed again. I was like, put that on the front because people are afraid to buy books about grief in this country, right? Yeah. But a lot of this book is funny and a lot of it is, if you love dogs and especially if you love rescues, you will be heartened by this book. Definitely. Dogs are the best people. Yeah.

I really don't think we deserve them. No, hell no. But I think they're gracious enough to put up with us and allow us to live as long as those treats keep rolling. That's right. And they get great treats. That's very motivation. Thank you very much. We really appreciate you coming on the show.

Thank you very much, Marianne. And please come back for your future books if you're working on any. You've got, I think, four or five under your belt, right? I have three. This makes three. But remember the Catholic school event I told you about? Yeah. There's a whole bunch

of short stories based on that. And in fact, if you go on my website, MarianneLeoneCooper.com, under videos, you'll see Chris and me reading from one of them

and Chris plays an old Italian grandpa in it and he nails it. Nice. Yeah. There you go. Maybe there can be a movie or a TV show

we can make out of this somehow. I don't know. You probably know how to do that better than I do. Thank you very much for coming to the show, Marianne. Thanks, Samanis, for tuning in. Order the show. Order the book wherever fine books are sold.

You can order the show, too, but it's free. But indie booksellers like bookshop.org. There you go. Or your local indie bookstore. There you go. Support your local bookstore. They need all the help they can get there. They do. There's nothing like going into one of those They need all the help they can get there. They do.

There's nothing like going into one of those old bookstores that's been around for a million years and they've got all these great books. I love them.

Five Dog Epiphany, How a Quintet of Badass Bichons Retrieved Our Joy. Out September 3rd, 2024. You can pre-order it now wherever fine books are sold. Thanks to my audience

for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com, 4Chest, Chris Foss, LinkedIn.com, 4Chestchrisfuss, chrisfuss1, the TikTokity, all those crazy places on the internet. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time.

And that should have us out.