The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Fritz Häber, The Complete Diary: 16 Months in an American POW Camp by Bernd Häber

Episode Date: March 28, 2025

Fritz Häber, The Complete Diary: 16 Months in an American POW Camp by Bernd Häber Amazon.com Worldstrings.com 16monthsaspow.com Examining history through family archives frequently complicates our understanding of the past. This complexity is heightened when descendants encounter diverse forms of testimonial evidence from a bygone era—whether it be a photograph, an object, postcards, official documents, or a diary—and undertake the challenging endeavor of deciphering the meaning of these personal remnants within the broader context of historical events. This diary stands apart from the typical World War II narratives found in documentaries, textbooks, and retellings, often providing only the highlights and a broad overview. For readers seeking a genuinely fresh and intimate perspective on the physical war and psychological war that unfolds beneath the surface, this real-life account offers an insightful and comprehensive experience. This is the story of Fritz Häber, a young German father who grappled with the dual responsibilities to his family and country. His reflections provide personal insights that extend beyond him to encompass broader global perspectives. Forced to serve in a Nazi anti-aircraft unit near Munich during WW2, he later endured 16 months imprisoned in an American POW camp. Fritz Häber begins his diary with this dedication: “I dedicate these pages to my wife and my children of whom I hope are still alive and whom to find well when I return from captivity… May these lines serve my wife in the future as a compensation for the long time during which she knew nothing about my well-being, and for the children to serve as an example of how human destinies can get easily mixed up.” Stories such as his prompt an exploration of our family histories and their untold narratives. They illuminate themes of resilience and survival, morality and choice. Even when these tales harbor discomfort or controversy, they possess the power to enlighten us and offer valuable guidance for our present actions. His steadfast and unyielding belief in his survival gave him the faith that he would be reunited with his family one day. Having endured physical and emotional challenges, his story is a timeless, powerful source of inspiration 75 years later and will resonate with future generations. From the author: n this book, which is both a diary and a memoir, you will meet my grandfather, Fritz Häber. As a child, he was just my grandpa, a jovial, vigorous, warmhearted man, whom I would visit during the occasional holiday vacation. It was only later when contentious, life altering, family events were revealed to me that I realized Fritz had served in Hitler’s Wehrmacht during WWII, one of the most tumultuous and violent time periods of world history. I had so many questions. Although his part in this global drama can be considered minor, he extensively documented his experiences and shared his astute reflections on everything from human psychology to political philosophy. Like many history buffs, I have spent countless hours reading about high level diplomacy and watching documentaries that detail the technical and military aspects of war, but it was not until reading Fritz’s diary that I could fully imagine both the momentous decisions he made and the drudgery of being a reluctant soldier. Fritz, an antifascist, not only warns “human destinies can get easily mixed up” during war, but also reminds us to pay attention to forces that might interfere with our lives in unexpected ways. I am excited to now share his story with you. About the author Bernd, grandson of Fritz, was born in East Berlin - after the Berlin Wall was erected. He grew up in the German Democratic Republic under a Communist ruling government. Bernd attended the Technische Universität in Chemnitz in Saxony/Germany and graduated with a Master's Degree in Mechanical Engineering, Manufacturing Process Design and Computer Aided Manufacturing.

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Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi folks, it's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. You should come home. Ladies and gentlemen, the show is on. As always for 16 years and 23 and episodes. We've been in the Chris Foss show and boy, are we sure tired of caring the show. One way you could help our backs is you could refer to show your family, friends and relatives. Go to goodreeds.com for this Chris Foss.

LinkedIn.com for Chris Foss. Chris Foss won on the TikTok, getting all those crazy places on the internet. Opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host or the ChrisFos show. Some guests to the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it is not an endorsement or review of any kind. Today we have another fine young man with a great story. He's going to be sharing with us of his journeys and his grandfather's journeys as it were. He's the author of the book that came out March 1st, 2024, entitled Fritz Haber, the complete diary, 16 months in a American POW camp. We are joined by Bernd Haberd.

And we're going to be talking to him about his insights and everything that he does and how he does it. And some of the things that you're going to love about his book. As we get into it, he is the founding and managing director and global orchestrator and progressive executive and business entrepreneur and music experience curator and author, publisher of four books and member of the Recording Academy. He has 25 plus years of experience at Global Orchestration. He's founder and managing director of World Strings Promotion.

It's Peter Seeger endorsed mission is to keep bringing people together through the power of music. He specializes in producing unique music events, using music as a common language to bring people together and to promote mutual and peaceful understanding of diverse cultures. Professional memberships include GACC, the German American Chamber of Commerce, Arizona chapter, SACC, the Swedish American Chamber of Commerce chapter, Arizona chapter, American Business Association, Folk Alliance, International Blues Foundation, Polestar Music Managers Forum in the US.

Welcome to the show. How are you, Mr. Haber? Thank you very much. Thank you, Chris, for having me. Appreciate it. Thanks for coming. Give us your.coms. Where do you want people to find you on the internet?

I, is it okay if I show it? So it's www16month, s p w.com. That's the book project website. So all the information about this book and the publication is there references and credentials. And also there's a way of contacting me if you want to, if you're interested in more, more in that story. So give us a 30,000 overview of what's in this book.

Yeah. So the book is, and I hold it up so you can see it. This is my grandfather. So my father's father, and he served in the Wehrmacht in World War II, in Hitler's Wehrmacht in the early 40s until 1945 when he was captured by the Americans in a small town near Munich where he was stationed and he was captured and then sent off to several camps. Eventually he ended up in a POW camp in Metz, a city in France where he spent 16 months as a prisoner and eventually was released in August of 1946 and returned home. There's so much more to talk about it. I would like to mention also that he grew up in a family that was very, in a sense, progressive during the 90s.

His apprenticeship, he became a blacksmith in the 1920s. Then his two twin brothers, who were two older brothers, they were members of the Communist Party at that time. So they took him in. In 1933, he started also, of course, Hitler took over, as we all know, in Germany. He started protesting, doing something, and he actually got incarcerated in the concentration camp early on in his city, Zwickau, in Saxony. It was not yet the concentration camps that we think of. He got released. It was actually because his brother, they were after his brother. And so they blackmailed his brother and his mom to get his brother.

So they incarcerated him to get his brother. He got free again after one year, worked for many years, and then eventually had to serve in the. So yeah, so this is the diary that he wrote down and I eventually got hold of it and thought, oh, it's probably worth publishing. Pete Oh, yeah. I mean, it sounds like a great story of what goes into it and how it works. Now, you grew up probably hearing this story as a child, maybe?

Jens So, I grew up, full disclosure, I grew up, I was born after the Berlin wall was built in 1961. I was born in East Germany or East Berlin. I grew up in East Germany, went to school until November 1989 when the Berlin wall fell, of course. So then that opened up a whole other dimension for me to figure out what to do with my life when I was in my mid-20s. And then I ended up a few years later in Phoenix in Arizona. That's where I am right now, so you probably see the picture behind me a little bit. And since 1996, I've been living in Phoenix, Arizona. But in 1990, so one year after the war came down, I had to privilege and I had asked him, actually my grandfather, to sit down

for an interview, a recorded interview, to ask about my family, my dad, my uncles, the whole history, his mom who had written a diary. So I was very interested in the story of our family, primarily. Tell me all of your stories, all the secrets and these kind of things. All the secrets. me all of the stories, all the secrets and these kind of things. He said, I'm not sure if he shared all the secrets, but I've a three hour recorded interview with him. So there were some interesting stories in there that I did not know at the time. Of course, during the interview, he said, you know what, did you

know I have written a diary? I said, no, my dad told me. So he brought this original diary, the original one. So it's this, you see in the back of the book, this writing, that's his handwriting, very clear, wonderful, beautiful handwriting. I read it. It's about my incarceration in a POW. So I wrote it for a year, but I had to return it. So I read it, took some notes and quotes, but it was so interesting. So many things, I had no idea how a common German, just a simple German, would end up

in a place like this and write about it. So I gave it back and the diary disappeared for many, many years in the box. In 2020, when I went to Berlin to see my father, because he was about to pass away a few months later, which he did in April 2020, but I spent a whole week with my dad. And all of a sudden he said, oh, by the way, I have this diary here from your grandfather. Did you know about it? I said, oh, yeah, in 1990. So do you want it? Of course want it. So, I took it home to Phoenix in early 2020, thought about it, what should I do with it? Here we are. So, it took me about four years to publish it with a real publisher.

Congratulations. What a story. And you've got pictures too, as well, people can find on your website. Are these pictures in the book? Yeah, these are all the pictures in the book. So there's a family picture with my dad. He's the oldest in there. Those classical black and white photos that have that look that really capture. It's funny how some of these old pictures, people don't really smile much in them. Like there's a joke about Instagram and social media that when they dig up the

archives and review over old photos, they'll be like, did anyone not smile in social media and Instagram? But it's funny how when you look at these old photos from these old times, and they were tough times. I mean, that's the point I'm trying to make. A lot of people were smiling.

They're just kind of like, what the hell's going on with this photographic crap? Yeah. If you think about it, so he was a captain in this camp, six kids at home, right? His wife, they had no idea where he is. And really, there's, there's, so if you, if you don't mind, if people go to the website, scroll down to the sections called the interview, there's three photos there. And if you have the time, click on them and watch or listen to him because that's for my recording from 1990 when he talks about these three episodes. And you can hear him as you open up the closed captioning, you can see the translation. So there's three stories you find

that one is when he was an apprentice, how much money he made. And when he came home with big money, I mean, you know, 775 marks, That was a lot of money in the 20s before, you know, the big crash and all of that. The second story he tells, and it's an amazing story when he finds a way to send a letter from the camp to his family home. He talks to an American journalist saying, hey, can you take this letter to Munich to this priest or this person of the church that I know personally, find him and let him send the letter home. Can you imagine you send someone with a letter to New York City saying, hey, find this guy in the city at this church, tell him to send

a letter to Phoenix. Eventually, the letter made it and then he gets a letter back from his family, of course, a few months later. And I come back to this because there's a very emotional story that goes with it with my dad. Yeah. But the third story, going back to this three pictures, the third story is an even, they're all interesting. It's an even more interesting one when he was ordered as a soldier to be a member of a shooting squad.

So there was a soldier or someone trying to desert, you know, the front lines. And of course, war, the decision was we have to shoot him. So he describes the scene there. So if you're interested in that part, if you don't mind, I want to go back to the letter. Please do. Please do. The first letter that he received from his family, of course, from his wife, and she talks about what's going on and we're happy to know your life. There was a section near that my dad wrote

to me. He was 15 years old at the time. So, hey, dad, he said, I have to make a decision what I want to be or become in life. I have three choices and I want you to tell me which choice is the better one. I could become a miner like my brothers, like our families here in Slikron, Saxony. It's coal mining. So I could be a miner. What do you think? Or my teacher tells me I'm really good at theater, stage play, role play. What about that? Or third, I could become a journalist because the local newspaper, you know, after the war, things started to recover.

The local journalists or newspaper asked me, they looked at some of my writings and said, hey, you're pretty good with German language, why don't you work for us? So he sends that letter. Of course, a few weeks later, a month later comes the response from his dad. And he said, Miner, no way, you're too weak.

Your brothers, let them keep going to the mines, that's fine. Stage play theater? No way. You need to become a journalist. What? So in that story in 2020, when I went back to Berlin to see my dad, when he gave me the diary, I said, Dad, can I close a loop for you? I said, do you remember?

Did you remember that you sent us the letter or this piece and a letter to your father in the camp and asked about, you said kind of vaguely, vaguely, yeah, since you tell me now, I remember. And then I tell him the whole story, what's in the book or in the diary, and then he said, my dad then sits down and cries. And it was just such an emotional moment for me, and for minutes we couldn't talk. So, this whole story, it is much more in this book. Pete Is that interesting how you opened that up for him? Can you tease out a little the story of him facing a firing squad? That's quite extraordinary

actually. Not only people get to have that experience. Jens Riegel Yeah. So, of course, you serve in your army, you're under order, right? So, you're oath in a sense. So any order that comes your way, you have to do. So there was this situation and it's not a hundred percent clear if the person who got shot was a deserter or someone who's just stole a loaf of bread. Can you imagine? Yeah. So anyway, so they do that for eggs now because eggs are so expensive.

Yeah. January 2025 folks, if you're watching this years from now on YouTube. The commanding officer goes through the ranks, you, you, you, you, you, 35 month, so you, you come with me. What's, what's going on? Well, we need to shoot someone. Okay. Shoot someone. Basically. Yeah. So As long as it nobody, but me, but then comes an interesting reference.

He says, we go to the, what is it? The ammunition chamber where they get the bullets for the magazines. Right. So they line up there and they say, so it's 35 month man and half of them, they get the real bullets, the sharp bullets that kill the other half gets the, what's it called the bullets that don't kill anyone. There's a term for it. They get blanks basically. They're like bean bags sort of pellets. Yeah, but real bullets, but they don't kill anyone. I think it's called blanks. Anyway, so they have

the unit get blanks. Yeah, real bullets and the other half, but they don't know. So they don't tell you this is a real one or you get a blank. And so that means, you know, you shoot somebody killed. And for my grandfather was the only person he ever killed. Well, the whole time we was in the war, which for him, but for the, you know, peace of mind or the, you know, conscious to say, well, I killed someone, but I, maybe I didn't kill anyone because I may have had the blank. Yes. So, he tells the story on the website. Pete Wow. That is wild, dude. That is just wild. What an amazing life to go through these times. And of course, war is hell and there's lots of craziness that goes on during war and stuff.

Yeah, it's just insane. And certainly, you know, it's experienced, hopefully none of us, the rest of us will still have to experience. And he endured 16 months in an American POW camp and telling the story of his life. What were some of the other difficulties maybe you had in compiling the story for other people who are maybe trying to do this at home? They're trying to, you know, compile the stories of their families and put them out. Yeah.

The one thing is, I have to say, I was lucky because as many people know, you know, that after World War II or any war, so, you know, the soldiers come home, they don't want to talk about it. Nope. Don't ask me any question. We can talk about everything else, but not this. So, that's so it's called the first generation and the second generation, their kids, they tried, parents said, no, or even the grandparents. So, the third generation, like in my case,

we approach, you know, that generation saying, do you want to talk about? And I was very lucky with my dad, who was a kid during those times, my grandfather, they all opened up completely. There was no hesitance. So from that perspective, I was lucky compared to many other Germans, those generations, to write books about it or dig into family history. Because some people said, there was something, what did you do during World War II? I'm not going to talk about it, because it's really tough. It's not black and white. So those answers. But he asked about challenges. One challenge for me was to publish in the US because I made a conscious decision to publish here in the US, of course. So therefore I had to translate the whole diary because it's written into English. I found a professor at the University of Arizona in Tucson who

professionally translated the book. So I got a very professional translation. The reason why I wanted to publish here in the US is to find a new audience. Because in Germany it's obvious if I publish a book like this, people say, you know, another of these many war stories, who cares? Some people's was, yeah. But here a lot of people, when you have a dialogue, when you tell them about the story, saying, wow, I had no idea, you know, the common German serving, having this experience. And so a lot of people here in the US, as you know, many people know, as you know, I've heard about World War Two, I know that I've heard about Hitler, I heard about the Holocaust,

I heard D-Day, maybe the Nuremberg Tribunal trials, and two Germanys that came out of it. That's pretty much it. So when you start telling them, there is so much more to the whole history. You know, Weimar Republic in the 1920s, 1929, the big crash that led to, of course, Hitler eventually win the elections and take over. So there's so much more in between that's also told in this story. So that's a challenge, of course, selling it in the US versus, I could just go to Germany

and do it there. Pete Slauson Yeah. I mean, I think we find history more often, more interesting. I mean, when you look at the, what is it, when you look at the, when you look at the history channel, that's pretty much what the play is. Nazi Germany Hitler stuff 24 seven, it's kind of interesting. But there's a lot, you know, we haven't had a world war three yet. So there's a lot of world war two to flesh out, I guess. If I may, there's an interesting side note to that because I've talked to so many people,

I've good number of readings here in Phoenix and in Arizona. And I've been approached by Vietnam veteran groups. They said that's an interesting story. Of course, it's a different war, but it's a different war. And I'm very happy. I was invited for October this year to do a book reading at a Vietnam veterans group here in Phoenix, Arizona. I really look forward to that, not just the reading from the book is one thing, but this whole conversation about the experience, what it meant. And I'm sure some of them have probably ended up in PW Chem, similar experience. So, I really look forward to that conversation. Pete Yeah, that should be a really interesting conversation. You know, the one thing I always say is the one thing man can learn from his history is that man never learns from his history. That's

what we say on the show. That's my quote. You know, we need to learn from our history more, eh? That's basically the point of that. You know, it's time to quit being stupid and reckless and trying to, you know, blow up the world and blow up ourselves and all that stuff. It's really important that we try and preserve ourselves and life. Man, can't we all just get along? Is that what you like to say? Yes, I agree.

But if I may, Chris and I share maybe one or two more anecdotes out of the book. So just, of course, a teaser for people to, you know, it was an in-full book. My grandfather had always, and it's hard to say because he's German, I'm German, typically the perception is Germans are not funny, but he had this subtle type of humor at moments when you think about the situation. So picture this, April 29, 1949. So he's stationed at this, in this small small town near Munich at an anti-aircraft searchlight unit. Luckily, he didn't have to serve the Eastern Front. And they see the

American tanks rolling down the hill on the other side of town. They had their white flags ready and it was in the morning. So what did my grandfather do? He made breakfast for everyone. So he knew the local farmers and, hey, you have some eggs so I can do some bread. So he makes breakfast for everyone. Hey, before we get captured, fill up our stomach and then off we go. And then he talks to two soldiers saying, hey, we have these 80 bottles of schnapps. What should we do with this? Let's bury them in the woods.

And then in the book, he says says whenever it is convenient again will come back To retrieve the 80 bottle of schnapps. So I don't know if they ever went back and had a chance So for anyone who is in treasure hunting maybe and in the book, there's a location Not the exact location but Really? You have the location. Not the exact location, but the small harmony. So if anyone is interested to look after them, you know, these 80 bottles, maybe it's- I'm gonna go on a journey. I'm gonna go try and find those bottles. Yeah.

What kind of schnapps was this? He said just schnapps. So it might be vodka, this kind of white schnapps. Does that stuff get better when it ferments? I don't know. Does it ferment? Oh, the bottles, it's like a good wine for a hundred years. You can have it in your basement. So that's one episode. The other one is, and you have to think about the moment when he makes a life and death decision for himself. February of 1945, so it's three months before the war ends and everyone kind of knows it, they feel it. His commanding officer says, come to my office, there's something. It's kind of a

subpoena, an order. You need to go to Dachau, near Munich, it's a two-hour ride or walk, or half a day. You need to report to its's called if that's the German word for a local military tribunal. So at the end of the war, they had these military judges all over the place. If you said something wrong, if you tried to desert, they would say, okay, decision boom, that they would shoot right there on the spot. Holy crap. His office, I said, you need to report there.

And someone said, all the information I have is someone snitched on you. You have said something wrong about the war. Oh, wow. Can you imagine? So a few weeks away from the end of the war, you have to report and pretty much in your mind say, oh, that's the end of my life because they have something, shoot me. That's it. So he reports there next day.

So they tell him, sit down. So, we have two questions for you. So, it came to our attention that you talk to someone bad about the war, bad about Germany. Is that true? And imagine yourself in that situation. You had no idea what to expect. And he makes the split decision as. Oh, I remember that conversation. Oh, I think the guy was an alcoholic.

Yeah, we shared a cigarette. We talked about family and I'm not sure if you can really rely on what he says, but I just want to make sure I'm not misunderstood. I only quoted the Minister of Propaganda, Mr. Goebbels, from the newspaper, the Stürmer, where the headline says, are you ready for this? The headline says, we only win the war if we conquer Ukraine. Wow. So that's what he said.

I just quoted Mr. Goebbels. That's all. Wow. So the judges said, okay, okay. Thank you. Second question. Were you ever a member of the communist party, which he was. And he said, no, what are you talking about? Never ever. So can you imagine they would have the paperwork in front of them at that time, but it was 1945 Europe. They had no chance to get his paper from his home town, all of that.

five euro. They had no chance to get his paper from his hometown, all of that. So they didn't have his paperwork right there. He said, no, no, that's misinformation. And all of a sudden, the judges said dismissed. Thank you very much. You can go home. Wow. Those are the episodes that he went through, life and death decision. that he went through life and death decisions. Pete Slauson War is beyond hell. Jesus. So, I mean, if this is going to be a great book for someone to read, especially if you love the rich history, you know, you talk about how, number one, he's a family man, he's juggling six kids at home, he's in a POW camp. I mean, you know, just the stress of war and eminent death or potential eminent death on

top of, you know, what about my family? What about my children, my wife and kids? And you mentioned that they didn't have any idea he was in a POW camp, huh? Klaus Schwab No, no. Pete Slauson What did they think happened to him? Maybe he got shot in a war and died or… Klaus Schwab No, I remember the timeline correctly. So that's 1945, he gets captured and spent

16 months and for the longest time they have no idea whether he was still alive or in a camp. But I believe October, November, the previous year, 1944, he was able to go home. He was near Munich, so there was Saxony not too far. So he went home for the weekend kind of thing, but then came back to the front lines. So that was the last time they saw him October, November, 44, until he came home in August, until they received the letter. They had no idea whether he was still. Oh yeah, the letter that he snuck out. Yes.

Wow. Isn't that something, man? That is just really something. As we move on from that, for the book, tell us about your strings company and what you guys do there. Yeah. Because before I do that, I would like to also get across, so for anyone who's interested, people ask me, so who should read the book? And there is a, for me, I hope I always inspire people, sit down with your parents, sit down with your grandparents, record or write down their stories, whatever great stories they have, record or write down their stories, whatever great stories they have to tell. Sometimes you're surprised, like in my case,

I had no idea. He spent 16 months in a PW cam. So anyone who is interested in family history, anyone who is really interested in a really good combating story about faith, perseverance, tough situation, but I'm going to make it and do the best, be proactive. Or anyone who's actually, of course, interested in history, German history, world history, that's worth reading. And of course, military history, although it's not the big battles, the tank battles, but it's a perspective of war. So yeah, anyone who's interested, reach out to me through the website. I'd love to have that conversation. Yeah. What a great story, man. What an amazing story. This should be one of those film stories that Hollywood picks up. Thank you for... I have it as a talking point. My dream is, of course,

to turn it into a movie project. So I've reached out to several people who haven't gotten any far. If anyone is out there who would love to turn it into a movie project like a Netflix mini series or some just a movie, I think whoever plays the character of my grandfather will win the Oscar. Pete Slauson Ah! Jens Stoltenberg Of course. Pete Slauson We have some Oscar conversation going on as I said. Jens Stoltenberg Yes. Pete Slauson Tell us, as we close out, tell us about your other company that

you work on, World Strings. World Strings Promotions. When I came to Phoenix, I came over as a musician. I grew up with German traditional music. I played in a folk music band. When I came to Phoenix, I performed myself German traditional songs, children's songs, but I realized it's not my career, the musician career. So I switched over to music business and I founded a company called World Strings Promotion. It's at worldstrings.com. And engaged in several endeavors. I put together tours from German music artists, singer-songwriters, American artists, cinema tour in Germany in the United States early on. I was very, and I'm very proud of this. I was able to work with John K.

You may not recognize the name, but he's the founder and lead a songwriter and singer of the band Steppenwolf. Probably a well known, born to be wild, mostly in the song. So that's the one. Yes. So in 2018, the band after 50 years said, oh, we had enough of this rock and roll thing. But he had expressed interest in continuing as a solo artist. It's a very long story. I ended up in 2019 working with John as his music agent and booking agent, music artist agent. So that's my proudest moment. But I'm involved in so many endeavors, the music

industry, and other countries in Europe, in the US. So yeah, that's what World Strengths Promotion is about. That's pretty cool, man. I mean, I remember seeing him on American Bandstand and all those old early stuff, you know, Born To Be Wild, and they had a bunch of other really great hits. Oh really great hits. And so is there anything people can get involved with to help or donate to World Strings? Yeah, reach out to me if you are interested in having artists on your stage, if you run a venue or if you want to curate special music events, please reach out to me. I would love to work with you anywhere in this country, in North America, including Canada of course, or in Europe. I would love to, yes, look into curating something together.

We certainly appreciate you coming by. Mr. Haber, any thoughts? Tell people, you know, pitch out where to pick up your book and dot coms they can use as we go out. Yeah, so you can go to their website again, and there's a link to Amazon, so you can order it on Amazon or you reach out to me directly. I'll send you a signed copy because it's first edition, you never know how this turns out in terms of the value. Yeah, I would send it to you, but you can order it in Europe. There's also another portal called Imgram, so they have it in German bookstores all over the world. So yeah, just look for it. them. So they have it in German bookstores all over the world. So yeah, just look for it.

Order it up folks, where refined books are sold as they say. Fritz Haber, the complete diary, 16 months in an American POW camp out March 1st, 2024. Thanks for coming to the show and sharing your amazing story, Mr. Haber. It's wonderful. And thanks for sharing your grandfather's story because these things get lost in history and all the things. And thanks for sharing your grandfather's story because, you know, these things get lost in history and all the things and there's always a human element to these stories that we can learn from. So thank you. Thanks, Ron, for tuning in. Go to Goodreads.com, Fortress, Chris Foss, LinkedIn.com, Fortress, Chris Foss, Chris

Foss 1 on the Tik Tokity and all those crazy places. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you guys next time.