The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – From Doctor to CEO: Dr. Hany Demian’s Entrepreneurial Journey Unveiled

Episode Date: December 20, 2024

From Doctor to CEO: Dr. Hany Demian's Entrepreneurial Journey Unveiled Biospine.com About the Guest(s): Dr. Hany Demian is a globally recognized expert in spine care, known for his pioneering work in minimally invasive spine surgery and anti-aging medicine. Originally from Egypt, Dr. Damien relocated to North America, where he built a successful career in chronic pain management. He later transitioned into entrepreneurship, founding Biop Spine, a leading institute in innovative spinal treatments. Dr. Damien has significantly contributed to redefining spine care through his leadership and dedication to patient well-being. Episode Summary: In this enlightening episode of the Chris Voss Show, host Chris Voss speaks with the remarkable Dr. Hany Demian about his transformative journey from being a medical doctor to a visionary entrepreneur. Dr. Hany Demian, a pioneering force in spine care innovation, shares his experiences and insights into founding the Biop Spine Institute, which is revolutionizing the field of minimally invasive spinal surgery. Listeners get a behind-the-scenes look at the intricacies involved in shifting from practicing medicine to running a successful medical business. Throughout the episode, Chris and Dr. Hany Demian explore the challenges and triumphs encountered on the path of entrepreneurship, especially in the medical industry. From micromanaging difficulties to learning crucial business skills, Dr. Hany Demian’s experiences offer valuable lessons on leadership and growth. The conversation navigates through the hurdles of managing human capital, adapting to new medical technologies like AI, and the importance of investing in oneself to expand capabilities. Dr. Damien emphasizes how Biop Spine stands out by offering groundbreaking spine surgeries and treatments aimed at improving patient outcomes. Key Takeaways: From Medicine to Business: Dr. Hany Demian transitioned from a medical professional in Egypt to a successful entrepreneur in the spine care industry in North America. Innovative Spine Care: Biop Spine Institute is at the forefront of spine surgery, providing minimally invasive procedures with significantly reduced recovery times. Entrepreneurial Challenges: Managing a medical business involves unique challenges, from dealing with micromanagement to adapting to business and medical advancements. Continual Learning: The necessity of ongoing education in both medical and business practices to stay ahead in the field is paramount. Leadership Evolution: Understanding the role of a CEO evolves with time, from micromanaging to setting company directions and fostering growth. Notable Quotes: "Invest where you have unfair advantage." – Dr. Hany Demian "The first person who helped me was my wife. She pushed me really hard to begin." – Dr. Hany Demian "You have to continue learning. It's quite important." – Dr. Hany Demian "Anyone can become the CEO, but learning to manage and lead is a process." – Dr. Hany Demian "Nobody should turn on or turn off the light without telling me. It was mad until I learned what a CEO is." – Dr. Hany Demian

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. I'm Voss Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. Ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, that makes it a fish. Welcome to the show. We just Please don't noticed. And yeah, just get your friends to subscribe.

Go to goodreads.com forward slash chrisvoss, linkedin.com forward slash chrisvoss, chrisvoss1, the TikTok, and all those crazy places on the internet. Today, we've got a doctor on the show who's going to talk to us about his journey from being a medical doctor to a visionary entrepreneur and some of the challenges he probably ran into throughout that. Dr. Haney Damian is on the show with us today. He is recognized globally as a leading authority who is actively redefining how spine care is understood and treated. With a career marked by innovation, leadership, and unwavering commitment to patient care. He's become a pioneering expert in his field, shaping the future of spine care and anti-aging through his clinical practice and entrepreneurial accomplishments, along with industry disputing

ventures. So disrupting, I think. Yeah, that's the word I'm looking for. Dr. Damien, how are you? Good, good, Chris. How are you doing? Good, good, good, good. If I can learn to read in my old age there with the fading eyesight and all that.

Doc, give us your dot coms. Where can you find us on the internet? You can find us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X as well. Uh-huh. And then what's the.com for your website? Do you have one yet? Yeah, we've got drdamian.com. drdamian.com.

Yeah, Damian is spelled funny. It's D-E-M. It's not the usual Damian, but it's D-E-M-I-A-N.com. There'll be a link for it on the Chris Voss shows, I'd like to say. Doc, tell a 30,000 on the Chris Voss shows. Like to say, doc, tell a 30,000 overview story. If you would. I,

I came, I, I was born and raised in Egypt and quickly realized after medical school, that is an oversaturated industry there. Basically in Egypt, we have four doctors per patient. So you can imagine it's very hard to get a career. And so I decided to go outside the box, reach out, get a fellowship in the States, hoping to get a job.

I didn't materialize, moved to Canada. Then I started my career there and started chronic pain management for 20 years. And then after 20 years, I realized that I needed to do more for my patients. I was the limited resources. We've done what we can. So I decided to get outside the box again and reach out, looking for something better and more to offer our patients. This is where we found Biospine in Florida. Biospine?

We bought it. Oh, wow. So what does Biospine do? Biospine is the leader in minimally invasive spine surgery. So they do procedures really neat. And we push actually this forward to a microendoscopic procedure. We do procedures through like literally 5mm incision. Like smaller than a paper cut on your finger, Chris.

Oh, wow. Yeah. And now, what's the website for BioSpine? It's BioSpineInstitute.com. BioSpineInstitute. Yeah. And now, what's the website for Biospine? It's BiospineInstitute.com. BiospineInstitute.com. How many places do you have available there in Florida? We've got seven locations, two surgical centers, Orlando and Tampa, and seven clinics. We've got five surgeons, and we're adding more chronic pain specialists, anti-aging,

and we're going to keep growing in Florida. Hopefully, we'll grow outside Florida next year to other states like New York and Michigan. Wow. So you've had quite the journey where you've gone from being a doctor to an entrepreneur. What made you want to be a doctor in the first place when you were growing up? It's a weird story, Chris. So I wasn't planning to be a doctor. I wouldn't lie and I say, since I was young, I wanted to be a doctor. I was actually wanted to

be a business person that I wanted to apply. After the high school, I got my paperwork, went to apply for the American University in Cairo for business school. That day, there was a suicide bomber there. And I didn't know. So I was walking there and I find a lot of injured people, dead bodies, parts and whatever covered by newspaper. And I stayed the rest of the day helping them. And at the end, I said, wow, I actually missed more than business school. So going home, threw out my application, and I applied for medical school. What did your parents think about that? They actually didn't realize that I was that interested in medical. I have a lot of physicians in my families, my father, my uncle, whatever, and they were pushing me.

Unlike any normal teenager at that time, I wanted to do something different than your parents. And then, you know, coming home one day, 180 degrees change in direction. It was quite surprising. Were they happy with you or were they like, I don't know, I don't know, this sounds bad? No, they were happy with me. Oh, that's good then. They were supportive. You do the work.

You become a doctor. You get in the spine field. What was the proponent that made you want to enter the entrepreneur space? And what were some of the challenges you initially ran into and adjusted to? Running your own business as a physician is not easy itself, right? You have a practice and you treat your patients well, like customers, valued customers, and then you get to hit a wall with limited resources and you want to do more, right? So I get quickly into the admin part and I realized that being the owner or the

business person will be way more offering to your patients if you actually can control the narrative. And this is when I jumped in and I learned, I heard Warren Buffett said before, invest in yourself, invest where you have unfair advantage. So I decided I have to invest completely in medicine. And this is where I started my own clinics and they grew. We developed algorithms for patients, and it grew. I attracted more patients, more physicians, and so on. It's kind of wild to become one, and I imagine it's harder for a doctor.

I mean, we had a doctor on recently who wrote a book about how they need to teach more business schooling and marketing and stuff into into doctors when they're coming up he claims that they don't teach a lot of business school stuff absolutely it's very hard i the first time my accountant gave me a balance sheet i had to google it chris you're like i said what is that so i had to go online and find a course, a night course. You mean we have to make a profit? We have to make a profit around here? Yeah.

It was tough. I don't know how people would do that. We had a guy on the show, and I think he ran up half a million dollars in debt because he was underbidding everyone's jobs around town because he didn't factor payroll and taxes. But he did dig himself out. Oh, God bless him. But yeah, I guess there's some talk about how, you know, and I can imagine it's hard. I mean, technically, if you're a doctor, you're seeing, you know, I don't know what doctors see a day 30 50 people a day

during the weekday you know it doesn't give you a lot of time to work on your business per se no it doesn't and you have to keep up Chris as well with medical literature after you finish seeing patients you can have to do paperwork and after the paperwork you have to update yourself and attend conferences and whatnot. So it is pretty hard. Yeah. Right? And most physician business people, they need to really work like double job. It's a double job, full-time job to get into this.

And in the first five years, all what you think about is just, I need to stay in the game. I need to stay in the game. I don't want to go belly up. And then after that, hopefully you learn, you get the right people in place, and you move on. Yeah. That's the other thing you have to get taught is how to hire the right people because if you hire the business people, the wrong business people,

they'll run you in the ground. You got to find people that really know what they're doing and stuff. And I don't, you know, there's a lot to business where you in the ground, you know You gotta find people that really know what they're doing this stuff And I don't you know There's there's a lot to business where you have to be sometimes a little ruthless not really ruthless But you you definitely set boundaries and people break me on a firearm and you know That's hard to handle when you first start firing people. Yeah Yeah, it's it's it's very hard because somebody has to make the tough decisions, Chris. And everybody looks at you to make the tough decision. The first time I fired somebody, I couldn't sleep at night. And I don't do that often, but it's really hard. And sometimes I wake up, I said, you know what,

somebody has to do to make the bad decisions today. And it's going to be me. Yeah. That's what I say when I fire people every day around here. No, I'm just kidding. But the one thing I've... I like when you can fire people when they've done something really egregious and they've broken the rules, they've gotten their warnings. What I hate firing people

is when there's economic downturns and you have to lay people off and that's... I hate that part. But so you've... Was there anybody who helped you along the way or guided you or mentored you into becoming an entrepreneur? The first person was actually my wife. She had her own business and she sold it early on.

So she had a really good background and she's the one who pushed me really hard to begin. I was doing a lot of small businesses like real estate and land development and whatnot. I wasn't doing good and I was actually at the verge of bankruptcy. And then one day she said, you got to do something good. Just one thing, focus on it and be at the best. So she pushed me. She actually the first one that helped organize the company and put all the rules and regulation and human resource and whatnot.

And I had a partner who mentored me on the medical side. So I got really good with that. We hired a friend as well. And she's still with me. And she worked with me in a different clinic before. And she's still there, our VP Medical Affairs. And the three of them were really great help until you dig yourself out. And you think, you know what, it's time for the next step. My wife got pregnant,

so she couldn't help anymore. And my partner wanted to exit at one point. So I had to look for the right people. And right now we've got a great team. That can be pretty disruptive when a partner has to leave somewhere during the process or inadvertently. I mean, I write about that in my book, Beacons of Leadership, where, you know, we had a partner separation and he quit one day and it was like, boy, it was, it was, since he ran certain parts of the company that I didn't, it was real problem for me to, to pun after that. How'd you survive or what what happened with the

partner thing if you want to talk about the partner it was during it was at the beginning of covid we we recapitalized the business we got a good chunk of money going to make some acquisitions mainly in the states and in in the cayman and then covid hit and covid in canada was a little bit longer so it was two years lockdown, right? So he decided to do something else with the money. And he started doing land development. And everything was going up during COVID. He made a lot of money.

So by the end of COVID, he said, I think I'm doing better in land development than medicine. And it's time for me to get out. I said, okay. We went out to the market tried to sell the company it didn't work out because it was heavily dependent on both of us at that time yeah and then at the end i turned around i said would you give me a chance if i cannot come up with the money he didn't want initiative because we're friends and whatnot he said i wouldn't leave you alone if something happened i would feel guilty and whatnot i said no no i'm a big boy so let me try so i tried and get a debt from the bank and i bought

him out he still works with me he's still one of my best doctors best friend good biller yeah and i still go back to him and ask him a lot of things but but yeah, he wanted to pursue a different direction. Yeah. I mean, that sounds like that was, had the potential to top of your world. And then you know, you, you found the strength within, and so you bet on yourself again, as you mentioned earlier. Yeah. I, I double dipped on myself, like my president at the time say, you know, you get the, the, the buyer's remorse, but they often going in to sign the deal and they said, I'm not sure I'm doing the right thing.

I said, no, no, no. You're doubling down on yourself. Okay. Yeah. Let's sign. I was lucky where I was this. Would you say that you were smarter than him or do you have more business knowledge than him or sounds like you go to him for a lot of advice?

Not at all. He just wanted an easy business to deal with in my opinion you know what i mean he's a little bit older so he wanted land development real estate and whatnot where you don't have to manage human capital right for me i love that part I love managing human capital, working with people, seeing them growing, building something. It's more intellectually challenging for me, and I like this way. Ah. It's, you know, when my partner and I separated, he was 13 years my business partner, and then 22 years my best friend. It was doubly hard because he'd been my best friend for a lot of years and

i trusted him beyond a shadow of a doubt for a long time and we got yoko honored he got fooled into believing that he could survive without me he i said he literally got a girlfriend who was like you don't need chris for us and boy that collapsed for him he was within a month he he was like holy crap i I'm a mess. And then he started blowing back at our business. But he just walked in one day and said, I'm done. I'm tired of being on this entrepreneur crap. I don't want to be an entrepreneur anymore.

I'm tired of these employees, and I don't want to do this anymore. Here's the keys. Bye. See you. That must be hard, huh? It was especially hard because he had sabotaged the businesses to try and force them into bankruptcy. Oh. So the one courier company he was running, he'd run it in the ground. And he had some cockamamie idea he'd gotten from this lady, our little Yoko Ono in this experiment,

and that if he threw all the companies into bankruptcy, he would be relieved of his debt, his half of the debt. Because all the debt of the companies were split. Like you said, you had to buy your other partner. The only problem is we had debt, so it's not like it was, I need to buy him out. It's like, I'll take your 50% of debt. Yeah.

And it was hard for me because I'd always considered he was half my mojo, you know, being CEO. And I thought I can't live with, I couldn't live without him, but he was doing so little work. I was able to sabotage the businesses. I was able to hire like a cheap $2,400 a month secretary to do his work for him that I was missing. And I was kind of like, you know, there's the movie Howard Stern where Howard Stern loses Jackie Madling, the joke guy from Penthouse. And he thinks that he's lost his mojo. And it turns out it was, it was, you know, he had the mojo the whole time and that's what i found too and yeah stretching yourself like you did buying out your your thing and investing in yourself

i mean you may you pulled the stretch like you said it's just hard to see it while you're in the situation it's just you all see it from the back. It's how little he was doing, how so bad he was doing. But you see it backward. That's the problem. Yeah. I've just learned. I've just kind of learned with the employees and stuff. People want to quit.

When they quit, you've got to make sure they stay quit. They can't come back the next day and go, ah, I changed my mind. When they quit the next time, it's going to be a mess. It is. People love to do that. So now you know what a balance sheet is. Do you know what a PNL? Let's see, profit.

PNL? Yeah. I do that. I did, I did. You know what taxes are then too. So there's that. What more would you want to share people if they were to do a journey like

yours and stuff on entrepreneurism? I learned the hard way, Chris, and I really would like to share my journey as a CEO. It's not easy. The company went into phases and we always hear CEOs get stuck. Companies fall down. I had another mentor in my life when I was stuck after buying my partner and I didn't know much how to grow the business to the next level. So he advised me with three things. He said, you have to look into your day, what exactly you do and divide it into three blocks. The first block, what you really love is this way you make the money and you do more of it. The stuff that you don't like, you have to hand it over to somebody else because that's a waste of your time. The stuff that you hate, this is when you actually delegate it somewhere or automate it to somebody else.

So this is the best advice he gave me. And since then, I said, you know what? I like human capital. I like business development and setting the direction for the company and this is really what what jumped the company to double what it is what it was at that time and it really helped me out i went to harvard's business school because i like that part spent four years doing Harvard, learning more about business, learning balance sheet and P&Ls and all those terms.

I like to speak to investors and whatnot. And the company is still actually a great growth curve now. And this is what CEOs don't understand, that we all get stuck. We all get stuck. The way I look at it, it's like you're

climbing a mountain and you hit a certain stage and you have to change your tools and the people. Some people wouldn't take you up there. So you're going to have to look into this and say, okay, those people got me here. I think we need to help them out to grow. So whether we help them to grow, send them to courses or teach them how growth is done, and you have to look into the next level and next stage by hiring more specialized people that have done this before. And I love sharing this with entrepreneurs and CEOs because we all get stuck.

We attend CEOs meetings all the time, and everybody's stuck somewhere. I'm stuck in the office. You know, it's, you gotta, you gotta be somewhere really. You know, you talk about, there was a medium article that you put up where you talked about how anyone can be a CEO and some of the, some of the aspects of being a successful CEO. Do you really feel anybody can be a CEO? I don't know, man. There's some people that I'm not sure their brains are wired to develop it.

I don't know. What do you think? You know, when I started being a CEO, actually when I started with my partner, I was not the CEO. He was the CEO, and I was the medical, the CMO. Then after a couple of months, I said, you know what? Let me, let me deal with the CEO stuff. Cause he, he didn't like it.

And you'll be the medical director. So I worked my way in. So I wasn't, I wasn't a good CEO at that time. I was, was micromanaging. I used to tell them this, Chris, I used to tell them nobody turn on or turn off the light without telling me. It was mad until I started learning what a CEO is. And I wasn't communicating.

And then two years in, I said, I'm not growing. I need to grow. Yeah, you got to tell people, right? Yeah, so I started learning how to be a CEO. So people think that CEO is the ultimate decision maker. It's not. It's not. You barely set the direction and you shape the future for the company.

This is where I want the company to be in 5, 10, 15, 20 years. I need to be there. Right? And then you learn. You mentioned that you learned to be a CEO. Was that from going to be a CEO. Was that from going to Harvard or was there some other different- It was for Harvard.

I attended something called the strategic coaching from Dan Sullivan. It's a great course. It's pretty amazing and it's pretty simple. A friend of mine attended it. I said, you have to attend this course. So I attended one and the theories that he teach honestly helped me as much as Harvard helped me. Harvard will teach you the business. Strategic coach will teach you

the personal side of the business. How you be a better CEO yourself by working on yourself. So one of the theories that he taught was four Cs, that a lot of entrepreneurs actually forget about it, which is commitment. You have to commit. Then after commitment, you have the courage because you say,

oh my God, what did I do to myself? Which happens all the time, especially after buying my part. And I God, what did I do to myself? Which happens all the time, right? Especially after buying my partner, I said, what did I do to myself? And then you have to look for capabilities. This is when you either grow or you find the people to grow. And once you build the capabilities and you see that the project or whatever you're working on succeed, you build confidence, right? But remember, it's confidence. You don't have to be cocky about it. You have to be confident. Yeah, it's kind of interesting. Some people think CEO is being a boss and you just boss people around. You talked about one problem that many entrepreneurs have. They

don't delegate. They try and, I'll do everything. That is pretty funny though, where you're telling people to don't turn. So they would have to come to you and say, I've turned on the lights. Chris, if there is a, if there is a plug sink, they will call me. What should we do? I said, I don't even get asked like that in my house. My wife deal with it. Why am I doing that at work? It sounds like you're, yeah, you definitely have the micromanage

yeah was was horrible I learned really the hard way and I really hope people learn from my mistakes you know it's it's we I think we all kind of make them as we go through this trajectory of learning what works learning what doesn't I read a lot of books and Harvard Business Review courses, and it's still, you know, the application of being in the moment and being human and trying to do the right thing and, you know, with good intentions. Sometimes, you know, you just don't, it doesn't fly well. You know, I had to learn the hard way sometimes. And sadly, some people got, you know, bonked around because of it but what is the one thing as we round out i mean what's one thing that you would to tell people i see here you have five things i wish someone told me before i came ceo i don't know if you can remember those off

the top of your head yeah i remember most of them but but the most significant one is what they always say, just start by the who and not how. So find the best people that can do what you want to do, hire them, and really get out of the way. It's really important because the first president I hired, I was still micromanaging him, Chris. So I said, so why am I paying that much? I'm doing my job and his job. It doesn't make sense. Then it hit me, just let him be. Because I was really wasting my time and the money just doing two jobs. That's really number one. Number two is you got to continue learning. It's quite important. quite important learning as a ceo it's non-stop for me learning my my trade as a medical doctor and learning the market and learning the trends

and being a ceo now i have to learn all about ai so it's it's non-stop you're gonna have to be like on top of your game all the time, medical now and business. So you've got to stay on the cutting-edge medical stuff, and then you've got to stay on the business side. It is. The nice thing about it is it does get easier as you go along, but you still have new problems. People have heard me cite this story in the show,

but I'm 57 now. There's a gentleman on TikTok who sells private planes, and he's a broker. I think he's a seller, however you want to call it. But he's fairly old. I think he's in his 60s. And he was talking through his day one time, and he goes, you know, the funniest thing is we've been in business for, I think it's 20 or 30 years. I don't know exactly, but it was, you you know they've been in business for a long time and he goes i've been ceo of this company for a long time and he goes the the funniest thing

about it is i still every day have new challenges like you would think that it would be a cakewalk that you know you could just sleepwalk it now after all these years and knowing what to do but every every day is new some sort of new chance it's never I often joke that they should just rename entrepreneurs problem solvers that's really all we do like a lot of people they're going into the being an entrepreneur and they're like oh my god Chris there's all these problems I'm like yeah you know tighten up your belt because there's going to be problems every day and there's always news one and you bring up ai you know i've i've struggled to adapt to ai and just the breadth of it is pretty amazing thankfully we can invite ai people on the show to explain it to me but

you know it's whipping so fast it's i'm just struggling to adapt to it and part of it is so layered so you know i've got video and audio you know, all this different stuff they do. And, you know, we've been using AI stuff for the show as well. And so, yeah, every time you think you got it down, there's something there. Absolutely. Let me tell you what's even worse, Chris. You hire smart people, they will solve problems. And they will keep the worst problems for you to solve.

So you're at the top of the pyramid. Everybody's trying to solve, solve, solve. But the worst one comes to you. So actually working 24-7 on solving the worst. And talking about AI, it's quite scary, Chris. Like I have AI now on the computer when I'm seeing a patient. By the time the patient finishes and before I open my mouth,

he's suggesting treatment. Oh, really? Why do you need me in the room? You might as well talk to the AI. You know what I mean? It is scary. It is kind of scary. You have to probably validate it's correct.

Of course Yeah, you cut out his whole liver there, eh? And you're like, wait, what? We should check what's going on with AI I've been drinking today I can't wait five years from now how it's going to look like Yeah It's going to get an argument with you about who's right

It's the diagnosis of the patient No, it's the spleen No, it's the liver No, it's the spleen No, it's the spleen. No, it's the liver. No, it's the spleen. No, it's the liver. I can see it now. Which leg we're going to cut, the right or the left? Yeah, you don't want to make that mistake.

I've read about a few of those. That's one of those nightmares now you think about when you go in for surgery. It's scary. You're like, you know which leg it is, especially not the middle leg. We don't want to amputate that part. So final thoughts as we go out i mean do we want to do we want to talk some more about the biospine.com company or sure absolutely yeah absolutely a bio spine is quite unique and the story about it is is quite

unique so what happened was when i practiced when i was practicing a few years back in Canada, I had a patient that we became friends, right? And then he started deteriorating to the point he's an entrepreneur, he's an inventor. So you can imagine how smart this guy is. And all of a sudden he started deteriorating and he couldn't walk. He couldn't move his arms anymore and we couldn't help him in Canada. And it was just so frustrated and it was keeping me up at night. He found Laser Spine Institute when it was really at its height and he approached them, he went for surgery and he came back walking, Chris. Oh wow. It was amazing. So I reached out and I kept reaching out. Unfortunately, they didn't exist at the time. i called my my friend who's the vp

medical affairs and they said i need the next best thing i need this for my patients so she found by spine that was four years and i kept knocking on their door right so i went the first time i said i need to send you a patient it didn't go anywhere i went when the second time I said, why don't we build bias file in Canada? It didn't go anywhere. The last time I approached them, they said, we are in the process of selling and we're almost done. So I said, I'm going to submit an offer. So one of the executives said, this relentless Egyptian guy is back.

Would you mind listening to him? Yeah, he keep coming. He said, he's coming again. I said, yes, I'm coming and knocking on my door, on your door. And finally, they listened to me. I had a meeting and I said, you've been doing a great job. I've been sending patients. The platform is amazing. You guys are ahead of your time. You're really changing the landscape of spine surgery and spine care. Why don't we work together and spread in Florida, outside, and maybe we can bring it to Canada. And this is where really we get together, we put our head, and now we moved from even minimally invasive to micro-invasive. So to give you an idea, traditional surgery is a five to six inches incision they cut bones they cut muscles

they go in and dig the spinal cord and open it it's it's really a lot bad in there and you're spending four or five hours on the operating table you're spending three four months recovering in your house on bed or whatever and and, and it just, the results are just 50, 50 while what bio spine does it's five millimeter incision done by a school. And it takes 15 minutes. The patient is out walking and walking home. And in three to four days, they can go back to their office or golfing or surfing,

or in a few weeks you can go weightlifting. Wow. Isn't that amazing? It is pretty amazing and the results are pretty amazing. And I do have chronic pain as well in my back. I hurt myself car racing and I hurt myself sports and boxing and whatever when I was younger. Oh, wow. And I look at it as if I will do surgery, I will do this one.

If I will do something to myself, I will probably go to buy a spine first. And this is what I really look to give or offer our patients because they deserve that best treatment. Now we added anti-aging, so we're working with peptides and exosomes. And yeah, all the stuff that people talk about and they spend money going to mexico and colombia and turkey doing it we're looking we're looking to bring it to florida to buy a spine bulging disc degenerative disc disease descending distance just renegation of i why did i try and read this osteo i can't herniated disc yes herniated disc. Yes, herniated disc, bulging disc, spinal stenosis, which is narrowing of the spinal cord, SI joint separation.

But right now we do even more. We do platelet-rich plasma, a specific one with exosomes and peptides we injected in the joints, and it regenerates the joint. There is no point of just masking anymore. Patients are looking for more. They're not looking for a band-aid anymore, Chris. They're looking to actually treat and fix their problems. Yeah. I mean, if you're in pain, especially from the back, it's not a fun life. It's not.

Especially, I suppose, if it's chronic pain. It affects your mental health. When I started having pain, I couldn't get into a sports car. It really hit me hard. I was just having our first boy. He was one year old, and I couldn't lift him more than 30 minutes. I had to hand him over. When I took him to the pool, I didn't last for 10 minutes. So it was hard.

And then you think about it during the day. I see 50 patients a day. I have to sit down between patients. I can't treat patients standing at that time. And it was hard. And it gets to your mind. Is this going to be my life moving forward? Yeah. So it does. It does. And until you have to look for yourself and look for treatment, look for the best and pursue it, it's just the system, healthcare system is really hard to navigate. So you have to look for yourself.

Yeah, you definitely have to advocate for yourself or if you're a caretaker of other people, you've got to do that as well. I mean, it's just so important. So final thoughts as we go out in.coms, where you want people to look you up on the interwebs. Yeah. DrDamien.com, BiospineInstitute.com, PainCareClinics.com. Thank you very much.

We really appreciate you coming on, doctor. Thanks a lot, Chris. It was very lovely and very interesting talking to you. Thank you. And thanks, my honest fortune. Go to goodreads.com, fortuneschrisfast, linkedin.com, fortuneschrisfast, chrisfast1, the TikTokity, and all those crazy places on the Internet. Be good to each other.

Stay safe. We'll see you next time. And that should have us out.