The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – From Payday to Payoff: Secrets to Financial Independence with Ann Pells

Episode Date: November 2, 2025

From Payday to Payoff: Secrets to Financial Independence with Ann Pells Annsplan.com Epic Fast Track This is the link for those who want to work with our partners to grow 10x. Work with us to grow or exit your existing business And a bonus for fun! 7 figures in 7 days About the Guest(s): Ann Pells is a financial strategist and co-founder of Life Giver Legacy, a company that specializes in results-driven financial services for homeowners and business owners. With over 18 years of experience, Ann, alongside her partner Larry, has established a track record of helping clients secure funding and develop cash flow strategies enabling homeowners to pay off their mortgages significantly earlier. Ann is particularly focused on empowering individuals with actionable insights to enhance their financial well-being, drawing from personal experiences and professional expertise. Episode Summary: In this riveting episode of The Chris Voss Show, we delve into financial empowerment with Ann Pells, co-founder of Life Giver Legacy. Ann shares her valuable insights and strategies on how homeowners can accelerate paying off their mortgages, converting a lifelong debt into a manageable venture. Her rich background in financial services fuels a conversation packed with impactful advice for homeowners and business owners alike, enhanced by personal anecdotes and financial tips that challenge the conventional mindset around mortgage management. Throughout the episode, Ann discusses the significant cost of ignorance—what she terms as "what you don't know that you don't know"—and how it can impact overall financial success. With a focus on transforming the "I can't" mentality to a "how can I" approach, she encourages listeners to seek guidance from those with experience and successful outcomes. Ann provides an overview of different strategies, such as leveraging existing equity and thoughtful expenditure, to efficiently manage finances and reduce debt. Listeners are invited to consider alternative business models that enhance income with minimal time investment. Key Takeaways: Discover how to slash the duration of mortgage payments from 30 years to just 5 to 7 years without altering income or expenses. Understand the significance of shifting from an "I can't" mindset to exploring viable financial solutions through "how can I" questioning. Learn about dynamic, results-driven strategies for managing financial services effectively, pairing them with emerging business models. Gain insights into the impact of interest costs over time and the value of foreseeing financial opportunities in real estate. Explore the potential of investing in businesses with management support systems to achieve significant monthly returns with minimal involvement. Notable Quotes: "The biggest cost, as I've looked at the past 18, 20 years of our life, personally and in our business, is the cost of what you don't know, that you don't know." "Instead of telling ourselves that we can't do something, ask yourself the question, how can I instead?" "This was something I didn't know I didn't know until about five years ago… we didn't know how to make the house work for us instead of against us." "Anybody who wants to own a home that feels like they can't, I'm trying to be a hope warrior." "The key is to find automation and systems and a team that can help you because you'll go faster and farther."

You wanted the best... You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times.

Because you're about to go on a moment. Monster Education Roller Coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hello, this Voss, here from thecrisposho.com. A little bit of all these things that makes it official. Welcome to the big show. As always, 16 years, 2,500 episodes of you bringing the Chris Voss show. Why?

I don't know. We were getting high on mushrooms in the woods, and light came upon us and said, You should start a podcast. Something like that, I don't know. I'm not really sure that's how that. happen, but that's my story, and I just made it up. Anyway, guys, for the sure of your family, friends, and relatives, remember to spread the love, spread the knowledge, spread the inspiration, all the uplifting stories we share

on the Chris Foss show, the un-uplifting stories, the depressing stories are on other podcasts, so don't do that. Just subscribe to ours. Anyway, thank you very much for coming the show. Opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host or the Chris Foss show. Some guests of the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it's not an endorsement or review of any kind. We've got an amazing young lady on the show. We're going to be talking to about her insights is how you can improve the quality of your life or else. I'll have to pull the car over there and come back there, folks.

So make sure you listen intently to the show. Today, we have Ann Pells on the show. Her and Larry are founders of Lifegiver Legacy, specializing in results-driven financial services for homeowners and business owners. With over 18 years of experience, they have a proven track record of helping customers find funding for businesses and implementing cash flow strategies, allow homeowners to pay off their mortgages five to seven years earlier without changing their income or expenses. She can also provide access to info on D-Y, or I'm sorry, D-W-Y business models that can

generate at least $10,000 a month with just one hour a week of the client's time. Sounds like my only fans. No, I'm just kidding. I don't have one. Anyway, welcome the show. How are you, Ann? I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming. We really appreciate it. Give us dot-coms, any of the the website you want people to check you out on. Ansplan.com. That'll show you how to get the house working for you like a bank, pay it off in five to seven years total.

That was a miracle for us. Paid ours down by half in the first two years and then on our way. And everything good started from there. Well, that sounds like a deal. Sounds like a deal to have. Five to seven years instead of 30. I mean, some people are too longer now, I think, don't they? I know, right.

And every time you move, you've got to start over. on the thing and tons of interest those first few years, so I sure was grateful to find it. Most people understand that when you reset your mortgage, whether you move to a new place or refinance, you're resetting that interest per diem. You're right. Exactly. And so you may like save, like, we had a mortgage company for 20 years. So you may save like, you know, I'd have people come to me and like, well, I want to save

a hundred bucks a month. I'm like, it's not really going to save you 100 bucks a month. You know, you do have all your credit cards, but it's not only, I'd have. you know, a higher savings can help, but when you reset that thing, I mean, you know, a lot of times you just add, what do you add extra to the mortgage on a payment or something extra? Right. All those closing costs and everything. And this one that we did was no closing costs, all done, nothing out of pocket. And we could see the balance dropping within about 30, 60 days. So I count that as a as a true financial miracle for our family. And I love it. I,

My grandpa, when I was 15, gave me a word that has helped me. And I hope this will be helpful to everybody, no matter what you're doing. He said that Kant is not in his dictionary. And I looked at him. I'm 15 on the couch going, yes, it is. It's between B and D. How could Kant not be in your dictionary? And he just said, instead of telling ourselves that we can't do something, ask yourself the question,

how can I instead? And find someone who's doing what you want. And ask them for help because it'll go a lot faster and a lot easier. Yeah, I love it. That was one of our first big ahas. And after I stopped trying to do only the things that I knew and started asking questions and finding people who were smarter than I was on all the things I wanted to figure out, it all started going a lot better.

Oh, yeah. I mean, it really does. And being able to, you know, you don't realize how much you pay. an interest on a lot of these things. So give us kind of a 30,000 overview, what you guys do there. I notice on ansplanned.com. You've got a big offer that's up there. Give us a 30,000 overview.

And the idea is, I just wanted to make it as simple as possible. Watch the 20-minute video. It'll cut 20 years off your mortgage. I think that's worth a few minutes of time to find something you didn't know. I think the biggest cost, as I've looked at the past 18, 20 years of our life, personally and in our business is the cost of what you don't know that you don't know. That's a huge cost that everyone ends up pay. We all end up paying it for our health, for our relationships, for our money.

And this was something I didn't know. I didn't know until about five years ago. And we have moved so many times, like you said, resetting. So the 30,000 foot view is watch the video, get on that phone call with the team and just ask them. It's specific to you, to your income and expenses, as if, if you don't have a house payment at all because of the way it pays off. And so I haven't had a house payment for five years. And at the same time, I'm able to treat our house like a bank.

And it's paying for itself and making things happy over here. Yeah. Love it. And so, no, who's your target audience? I think we talk pre-show that some of you help some boomer folks. Who's your audience out there if they're listening and how can you help them? for me it's anybody who wants to own a home that feels like they can't i'm trying to be a hope warrior give everybody some hope because sometimes we just watch the price of real estate and the

interest rates and all the things and we start giving ourselves that message that grandpa said not to you which is oh my gosh i can't even buy a house in the first place and if i have it how am i ever going to get this thing paid off and that so that's our audience generally people talk to us when they're in their 30s, 40s, and 50s because they haven't got a financial plan that's going to help them have some residual income coming in so they can retire somewhere along the way. And when they see the power of what the house can do for them, it kind of opens some doors. And then we can help them, you know, to have those businesses and other things that you mentioned. So, but that was my, I love recipes that just work, that you just know the ingredients.

You're going to give you the thing that you want when it's time. for dinner, right? And so that was our first ingredient, was getting the house to work for us instead of against us all the time. And then to make sure the businesses were running on autopilot as much as they could with people who are smarter than me, make sure they run the way they're supposed to. So I can enjoy the other things I like in life, which is like chocolate and my grandkids and things like that, right? Yeah. I mean, grandkids are cool. As long as they're a teenager, No, I'm just teenagers. Right.

They're lovable up until about them. But, you know, they're trying to find their place to the world. So they kind of lost there for a little while. And then they always come back. Right. Yeah, I mean, spending more time, you know, I know this is a big issue for boomers and people are retiring, you know, spending more time with their family. But, you know, maybe a lot of people, you know, I think there's a lot of studies on this.

A lot of people really don't have enough for retirement these days. And inflation has been kind of crazy. easy if you've seen the price of eggs and groceries lately and you know i mean inflation kind of always is a thing it's always you know i mean i remember when you i was looking at candy bars the other day i'm like i remember paying 25 cents for stickers back in the day me too and it tasted just as good and it was awesome it might have been tasted better there might have been less poison ingredients and all that food back then but uh that was before the uh they came introduced what was it high fruit

So, sure, sure. So, you know, evidently high sugar is really expensive. It's expensive at the hospital, too, later in life. Anyway, so how do you give us some, maybe some tips? You know, I don't expect you to give the secret sauce away, but what are some tips on why people can pay off their house in five to seven years? Why is that important? I mean, what is the difference going to make for them?

And then, do you, do you, one of the problems I see with a lot of potential homebuyers right now is they're living two to three times a day on DoorDash. And I have money, but I'm still cheap because I grew up poor. And I even can't justify $40 to have a $10 burger delivered to me. So do you help people, you know, manage their budget game? Yes. Yep. I do have a really good friend that we plug you in. He's got a great recipe too, seven simple steps to take that house strategy and really maximize it,

no matter where you're starting like we started with no equity at all in our house and some people don't even have a house so they're just trying to buy one and it works for both and then of course after those first couple of years when the house was halfway paid off we could use that money again it's recyclable the best thing about recycling when money works that way and that let us purchase some businesses and do the things we do now so it opened up so many doors it was beautiful that is awesome that is awesome and yeah they mean I think the most people don't realize I'm just going off this from my mortgage days and it's been 20 years from the 20 years maybe and so I'm not sure if these numbers have changed so keep that in mind folks you can Google you know you should always double check everything Chris Foss says anyway the but it used to be they would say that if you had a $5,000 credit card balance if you if you made the minimum payment on that, you would pay that off in 25 years and you would pay five times that $5,000 amount. So you pay $25,000 in payments and interest on some stupid crap you bought a

target. We all did it. We've all done it. You're like, put the $5 knick-knack on there. Yeah, don't worry about that. I know, right? You know, and then you're paying compound interest on it for the next 25 years. With mortgages, I know, you know, a lot of that money, does go to our interest. When you look at your closing statement on your federal truth and lending, I believe it is form, it shows the amount of interest you're going to pay. Right. That's a lot of money. I know. On a 30 or 40 year loan, especially nowadays. I mean, back when we did mortgages, you know, they're pretty cheap. Now everything is a million dollars. Right. So getting, eating at that is really important. And, you know, I think back in the day, they say,

I don't know if this is a little true. So if you add $100 to $200 a month, your mortgage payment, you know, it goes straight to the principal. That can help turn into a 20 or 15 year loan depend upon how you do it, I think. I don't know. That's true. However, you know, what if you lose your job or a health thing comes? That's what happened to us.

Oh, really? I'm so frustrated because we'd been doing that, putting in a hundred or so extra, but we just didn't have an emergency savings account. And then my husband got laid off. We had three little ones and my go to school, get a good job plan, kind of blew up on us. And I thought, oh, my gosh, that's our only income. And so now I definitely go this other direction that we didn't even know until we are 50. So I love it when people can find the Ants plan team before they're 50 years old because, you know, we've lived in 15 different houses now and think what I would have done.

Like, I think what we don't understand, what we don't know about what we don't. we don't know about mortgages is that total interest that you're talking about. Like when we buy a house for 300,000 here where I live, it's going to cost another 600,000 on interest, even if we're putting in that extra 100 or 200 a month. And Anne's plan, the way they taught me to do it. Even just, I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks. I learned when I was 50 to finally get that done without being on a starvation diet. Like I really, really, really like chocolate.

And it's no fun to not be able to spend something on the fun things, too. So it's both. It teaches you how to have that emergency fund and get that house taken care of all at once. And then you don't have to worry about it. And you also don't have to use the word can't in your dictionary either. It's all, I mean, gosh, I didn't, when I was 15 and grandpa was telling me that. I wish that I would have taken that to heart during our crazy financial life since then. Well, you live and you learn.

We all kind of make those mistakes, you know. But, you know, the thing is you don't wait to life and to learn. So now you also, it appears to give like a balanced approach. So how can someone purchase an existing business with a management team that helps find fun and run the businesses to make that 10K a month to give you that additional income with minimal time commitment? We have two partners that help us do that. People smarter than me.

and they've been around the block a lot more than I have, and you get to choose what kind of business you want, where you want it, and generally what kinds of income you'd like to have each month, and then they go to work to lip for you for that and show you how to do it and what they're doing. And then every week we hop on a phone call like this, and they just give us an update on, you know, after we've purchased those businesses,

then they'll give us an update about what's happening in them. So I still have my finger on it. Keep taking your pulse and making sure, you're still alive doing great, but I don't have to be involved in the day to day as much, which I really appreciate because we've had a lot of businesses where I did need to be on the phone during dinner and miss all the important things with our family and all of those things. I already done that and knew we needed to have teams of people helping us. So whatever you're doing financially, I think find automation and systems and a team that can help you

because you'll go faster and farther than you would if you're trying something on your own definitely and plus those people are professionals they kind of know they're like me they're you know i've done so many i can do it in my sleep like i can form a company like sometimes they just wake up in the morning i'm like who formed a company oh no wear these business cards they're in my it's all red we got it rolled over on them why the hell is going on and uh um you know but you definitely want that because i mean especially if you're kind of at that boomerage, you know, sometimes you've been working a job where, you know, you don't have, you've been working for someone else. And the transition of learning to work for yourself and, of course, the time. Yes. I eat sleep and drink business.

I mean, like when I'm sleeping, I have dreams about business. Me too. I love to have a nice beau derrick running down the beach. But no, it's always about business. And usually it's about what's going to go on the next day. Who I'm going to fire? Who I'm going to hire? What's what I need to do?

you're going to do this to me. So I'll have dreams that, you know, like, hey, I'll wake up, be like, did I do today or not? Every other than I dream about the beau Derek, then I'm like, I'm like, oh, what a relief. That was more enjoyable, yeah. I mean, it's there when I wake up, I don't need it when I sleep. Like, sleep about puppy dogs and daffy deals and whatever they all, so dreamy, I don't know, fantasy lines of, anyway. Now, you talk about. shifting from an I can't mindset to how can I.

I imagine that's part of the story you told us about your grandfather. Why is that so important in having a can-do mindset? Well, I'd like people to be faster and smarter than me. My kids and everyone who comes behind me or gets a chance to hear this. If you can learn, like when we went through 2008, our family had another financial reset. All the business stuff that we'd been doing got a reset in that crazy, 2008 stuff and we learned a ton but right at that time I had a person come and say to me and find a partner you guys are still good just keep going find a partner who has what you need

financially or whatever other way and let them help you and I said I can't two words right there I didn't listen to my grandpa's 15 year old message I thought okay I'm 35 I can't find a partner that could help me with this mess that we're in in 2008. And I lost 10 years of time before we kind of stepped back into the boxing match again and thought, all right, here we go, we're ready, let's do this. And I can't even count what that time cost us. Like how much income could I have had, how much legacy and impact could I have had? And I think, so that's why I love the, you know, ask the questions.

instead of saying I can't have something, I can't have good health, I can't have a good relationship, I can't do this, let's go into the how can I, or what if, what if it was, what if it was that easy to make a few phone calls and just start asking questions about things you don't know yet. Yeah. And spending that time, you know, rather than just, you know, sit in front of the tube, drool on the side of your mouth watching the Kardashians or whatever that's just going make your brain wrong you know it's it's funny how people invest time one of one of the other big

things i see that a lot of people are doing nowadays you're spending like insane amounts of money on cars have you seen this they're spent you know they they have like 1500 car payments now yes some of them on 20 year 15 year loans and i'm like what are you doing 10 year loans i know And I heard somebody put their car on a 120 month, which is 10-year loan in mortgage business. I'm like, wait, those are mortgage numbers. I know, right? What the hell? And, you know, honestly, I've driving a shitbox for a lot of years.

I rent really nice cars or exotic cars when I want to travel and I want to break down on me or I want to have a date or, you know, if I want to go out of the town, I rent a nice car. It's really cheap to do. And for the amount of money I spend in rental cars, it's probably $500 a month. Yeah. And so having a shit, you know, I call them a shitbox. Having a shitbox is, you know, you've got an older car, but it's cheaper to maintain. It doesn't have some stupid thing. You know, Warren Buffett, at one point, he was driving around like a 1989 old Cadillac.

I know. And then I think his daughter cajoled him into upgrading a few years, but it's still an old car. And that's okay, right? And a lot of people like yourself and millionaires that we've had on the show, they'll tell, most millionaires don't drive the latest, newest car. They drive older cars. Yeah. And, you know, I've often joked, especially the way the car repair is going and the costs are going nowadays.

I actually had a friend that did this. He had a Ford focus and the thing was always broken down on him. Not any bashed to Ford, but that's just the story. Don't write me Ford. There goes our Ford sponsorship. but he finally got sick of the breakdowns and the repairs in the car. He went and bought like a 1965 Chevy pickup, you know,

the kind where you open it up and you can see the engine. That's it. There's no cable, you know, a couple cable. But he's like, he's like, this is what I'm buying.

There's plenty of parts for it. I can fix it. I just reach in there and do whatever. If it don't start, I just push it and jumpstart it. He goes, this is the new car. And the insurance is like cheap as hell too.

That's the other insurance has got that control. And so just managing your budgets, managing what you're spending. I mean, I see so many kids complaining about how they can't afford a home. And I'm like, how many times you order DoorDash? Twice a day. And then it's Starbucks in the morning. I spend another 1520. Yeah.

And I'm like, well, that's your problem. That's it. I mean, you know, I mean, I have an expensive espresso machine, but it's much cheaper than for what I paid for it down a daily basis. when you're going to spend at Starbucks, you know. Yeah. What I'm hearing you say is kind of like the book that I read, which is a millionaire next door. That was years ago back in our, I feel like we can do 10-minute magic, as you said, using our time instead of like scrolling through social media, what if you were like listening to a book to learn something new?

What if you were, you know, you still have fun, but 10 minutes of a Robert Kiyosaki book or I don't know, all the things that. you can put your mind to work a little bit. It's still a lot of fun. And you'll find a lot of things that you go, oh, I don't even care what the neighbors think about what I drive or where I live or all those things that I used to care about, but not now.

And I would, I mean, they'll just go faster and smarter than we did if they don't care about those things either. The, and they can work with you, of course. Let's get a plug in for you.

They can work with you. to help them figure all this stuff out, get their budgets under control, get their money priorities and stuff. And I think a house technically would be the most interest consuming you're going to spend your life. Yep, aside from taxes,

and if you buy things the right way, you can still have a really good tax situation too. There's lots of ways to buy businesses with nothing out of pocket and have a great tax situation all the way through. So, again, I think it's just, ask people who are doing what you want and get help from them because it takes too long to make all the mistakes by ourselves, right?

I don't have time to make all those mistakes and have to go the slow way anymore. It took me a lot of years to become a good entrepreneur. I'm not even sure I can qualify for that yet. After 35 years. I'm still making a few mistakes. Still learning, right? Every day is just daily problem solving. But yeah, if you can cut to the chase, have other people manage that for you and not have to learn it, it's a lot to learn.

It really is. My friend called it the million dollar learning curve. Oh, yeah. Oh, if I can like have someone mentor or not even me, just anyone that could mentor you on your health, your relationships, your money, whatever it is, right? Let's find someone that can speed up our learning curve because I need someone who yells at me when I'm in bed saying, Put the TikTok down and go to sleep, dummy. That's what I need right there. What else about your offerings and the work you do for the people?

Have we maybe talked about? I know I had a talking point somewhere in here and it got lost in my ADHD brain. Maybe it'll come back as we chat. I think just start by believing that you can. Everything is a possibility. And if I could talk to my 2008 self when they said go find a partner, gosh, I'd have been like, man, you can find someone to help you. You don't just think, oh, man, we struck out and it's all over. That's not how we win ball games or anything in life.

We get back up and keep trying. I think we're like Edison. and Edison kept trying until we had the light bulb. And I'm sure grateful he did because, you know, that. You know why he kept trying, don't you? Why? Because he was in the dark. No, I'm just a deep joke.

That jokes on the show. It's low, low hanging fruit, folks. Yeah. Yeah, it's one of those things where learning this stuff is so important and managing your finances is so important. I mean, there's so much money you waste. And, you know, sometimes it's hard to look at your money. Like, where am I blowing money on my butt and stuff?

Like, one of the problems I noticed recently was I was doing this thing on my, on my, um, uh, like one of the card vendors we have is PayPal. So a lot of times I'm just lazy and I'll do a set of going, getting the money out of the ATM or sending it long ways to the bank. I'll just do an instant transfer. Will you pay an extra fee for instance transfer? You know, we have stuff come in every day. And so I'm like, I'm like, I started looking.

I'm like, how much does this cost to me every time I'm lazily just directly fast sending? Do I really need to fast send it? I don't know, I don't. I can wait a couple days to go through the banking system. And worst case scenario, I'm always out every night, you know, doing something. Aaron's, I can stop at the ATM and flipping into the other bank. And I was spending $500 plus on that. Like, and I was, and, you know, we make a lot of money.

So you kind of go, well, time value, money. But still, 500 bucks, 500 bucks. Yeah, it adds up, right? Yeah, it adds up, you know, this thing, that thing, you know. And so, yeah, you want to manage your, you want to pay attention what's going on to your stuff. And you want to not overspend on stupid crap, which is right. And also, I think for me, I finally got an idea that, you know, $20, the cost of pizza here, You can educate a kid for a year in some parts of the world.

And $1,000 is a heart surgery for children in Africa. It's also their whole salary for the year. So, you know, when we don't need everything that we have, we can share it. And it doesn't even, it won't even hurt us and it will help make good things happen in the world. I'm just, I, we've had so many people pay things forward to us, like six Christmases that things were hard and someone put things on the front doorstep. And, you know, I just think about that in light of, you know, we don't always realize how much good we're doing when we just do a little bit of something, not necessarily even dollars, but just like, did we smile at the person in the, in the checkout line

today? I don't know, you know, I just, there's so much good that we can do in 30 seconds or less. Oh, yeah. So much, so much good in helping people. And, you know, if you, if you leave the world a better place. That's our motto over here on the show. So as we go out, anything more you want to plug on the show before we go? I just really appreciate the opportunity. I think what you're offering to people is like the butterfly effect, the book that, again, is more. We just don't know all the good that can happen.

That book is one of my favorites. So I definitely recommend it five minute read, lots of pictures for people that don't like to a lot of stuff. But it was about George Washington Carver and how someone rescued him out of a little little gunny sack in the middle of a war. He was orphaned, but someone took the time to raise him and teach him and he was able to feed billions of people. So I guess what I'm hearing from listening to you and from learning over these past 20 years of our own life is, you know, wow, all the good things that have happened because someone took the time to teach me and then I can pass it forward. And hopefully everyone behind us will go faster and smarter than we did to try and, you know,

I think everything's happening faster now. Yeah. I thought internet and an email weren't going to be a thing for heaven's sake in college. So, you know, where I'm at and what I knew. But there you. It's a good thing. It's always a good thing. So awesome sauce.

Thank you very much. Give us your dot com as we go out, Ann. Anne's plan.com. It's really easy. And if you have any questions, Anne at Lifegiverlegacy.com, that will find me too. Thank you very much for coming on. It's been wonderful to have you. Yeah, I'm grateful to be here. Thank you. And thanks for us for tuning in. Look at your budget, folks. I know it's hard times these days, lots of inflation in 2025. But, you know, take a look at your spending. Look for what they call the bleed points, you know, where your money burn is, you know, just like startups do. you know, where's the money burnt?

And, you know, find people that can help you figure out how to save more money. And then, of course, maybe some of that savings, you know, you can put on your credit cards, your mortgage, you can invest in a business. And, you know, especially if you can get a reoccurring, you know, we've had a lot of companies over the years that were reoccurring, kind of like, what would you call them? We didn't have to spend a lot of time doing them, but we'd get reoccurring income from them. The clients were always using it every month. Yes, money in the mailbox.

It's perfect. Money in the mailbox. Yeah, we love that. So thanks for tuning everyone. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you guys next time.