The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Get on the Job and Organize: Standing Up for a Better Workplace and a Better World by Jaz Brisack

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

Get on the Job and Organize: Standing Up for a Better Workplace and a Better World by Jaz Brisack Amazon.com For fans of Fight Like Hell and A History of America in Ten Strikes, the leader of the Starbucks and Tesla union movements shares stories from the front lines to help us organize our own workplaces. Get on the Job and Organize is a compelling, inspirational narrative of the Starbucks and Tesla unionization efforts, telling the broader story of the new, nationwide labor movement unfolding in our era of political and social unrest. As one of the exciting new faces of the American Labor Movement, Jaz Brisack argues that while workers often organize when their place of work is toxic, it’s equally important to organize when you love your job. With an accessible voice and profound insight, Brisack puts everything into the context of America’s long tradition of labor organizing and shows us how we too can organize our workplaces, from how to educate yourself and your colleagues, to what backlash can be expected and how to fight it, to what victory looks like even if the union doesn’t necessarily “win.” Jaz Brisack is an American union organizer, author, and barista. They are known for leading unionizing efforts at Starbucks, namely at a Buffalo, New York store.

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with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, this is Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. Beautiful. Today's someone there and ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Big Show. As always, the Chris Vaughn Show, it's a family that loves you but doesn't judge you for over 16 years.

23 to 2400 episodes are going on. We've been bringing the Chris Vaughn Show so you can learn more from all the amazing minds and people that we have on the show over the last 16 years. Today we have another amazing newest book. It is called Get on The Job and Organize. Standing up for a better workplace and a better world out April 29th, 2025, Jazz Brissek joins us on the show. Jazz is a union organizer and co-founder of the Insider Organizer School,

which trains workers to unionize. After spending one year at Oxford as a Rhodes scholar, they got a job at a Zabrista at an Elmwood Starbucks in Buffalo, New York, becoming a founding member of the Starbucks Workers United and helping organize the first Unite Starbucks in the United States. As the organizing director of Workers United Upstate New York in Vermont, they also work to organize committees at companies ranging from Ben and Jerry's to Tesla. Welcome to the show, Jazz.

How are you? Not too bad. Thanks so much for having me. Jazz, give us your dot coms. Where do you want people to find you on the interwebs? Yeah, folks can go to the insideorganizerschool.org and that's probably the best place to find things. And then the book is Get on the Job and Organize, which,

yeah, folks can order from any preferred bookstore. Pete Awesome. And you've got quite the story to tell, quite the experience that a lot of people don't get the opportunity to have. Tell us 30,000 over you what's in the book and your history with it. Anna Yeah, so, I mean, I decided to write this book because I wanted people to understand how union organizing works and to kind of demystify the process. I think one of the things that I've seen in organizing is that people realize, you know, when one campaign starts, if they can do it, we can do it. And so the goal of this book is to help more people

at all kinds of workplaces understand exactly how we did it and how they can replicate that in their own workplaces. Pete Awesome. And so, tell us about your journey. You have quite the experience here and I believe made some national news too as well. Anna Yeah. So, I mean, I grew up in the South. I'm originally from Texas, but I ended up in Mississippi. I didn't grow up knowing that unions were something that, you know, were, they weren't really part of my life growing up. And so I didn't really understand that they even still existed. But I was a bit of a history nerd. And so I ended up learning about labor history by going down some rabbit

holes. I learned about, you know, the Scopes Monkey trial and the lawyer who had represented the teacher who was on trial that also represented Eugene Debs. And I was really moved by the stories from the early days of the labor movement. So I got to college, I had a labor journalism professor named Joe Atkins, who really helped me, you know, understand that unions still existed, and were still something that you could get involved with. And so he introduced me to Richard Benson, who was working with the United Auto Workers on their campaign to organize Nissan in Mississippi. And Richard became my organizing mentor and I got involved with the Nissan campaign, which was a really formative experience for me. Pete I mean, unions have been under attack by Republicans since Ronald Reagan. They went after him because unions were flipped to the Democrats strongholds during the Johnson administration. And so, the Nixon administration had to come

up with the Great Southern Strategy to, you know, raise money to run political, to win political runs. And then when Reagan came in, first thing he did was take out the union for the thing. And then talked to a lot of companies with his illiberalism into moving to other countries. And since then I've watched Republicans work state by state over the last 40, 50 years to, to dissolve unions. In fact, here where I'm visiting in Utah, they're trying to make it so that they have a law that they're working on, they're cooking. I think it's going up for a vote to the voters that basically would

make it so they can't have unions here in the state and you can't assemble for your right to work. Kind of interesting what's been going on the past while. Yeah, I know for sure. I mean, I think there's definitely a very coordinated assault on organizing that's been going on for a long time. Certainly, you know, the current administration has been trying to go after union rights to the extent possible. But I think where unions have been on the ballot, you know, in places like Missouri, voters have been overturning right to work laws, which, you know, in places like Missouri, voters have been

overturning right to work laws, which, you know, make it harder to maintain a union. So I think there is a public opinion swaying in favor of unions that's been really helpful. Pete Slauson Yeah. And it's interesting to me when people vote against their own best interests. You know how you know unions are good? Billionaires hate them. That tells you everything. Exactly. Elon Musk doesn't want you to do it. Then maybe you should do it as fast as possible. I'll put this in my opinion.

The, if the ass had at the head of, he ran for president too, the head of Starbucks, so he's still CEO or maybe he's chairman or something. But I mean, the guy makes, you know, buttloads of money and, you know, and they hate unions. And I mean, there's a reason for it because, you know, it gives workers power. It gives them empowerment, actually. It gives them the ability to demand what they want and they can't just be taken apart. What do you feel is, why do you feel unions are important, you personally, what is your opinion on that? I believe in democracy. I think that

democracy is really important for people to get to experience. And I don't mean voting every four years for, you know, who's going to be in the White House. I think it's much more important that people have the experience of true power and true democracy in their own workplaces where they're spending, you know, most of their working or waking lives. And so I think the workplace is also without a union, one of the least democratic places in society where, you know, employment law basically protects managers and bosses' ability to fire workers at will, to impose any roles that they want, to walk back roles when they decide that they have changed their minds. And so I think having a voice is fundamentally important and also the best way

for workers to be able to build a different society. Pete Yeah. I mean, unions used to be a large part of our country's workforce, and things were good then. You know, we didn't have child labor. Florida right now is trying to enact child labor, basically. Workplace safety is a big deal, I imagine as well. You know, there's some dangerous workplaces just by the nature of the job out there, but God forbid, you know, companies or government oversight like OSHA and different things, they can say, hey, now we got to, you know, maybe we need some extra straps on the roofer so they don't fall off the roof or slide off the roof, et cetera, et cetera. You know, worker safety, you know, is a big deal. But it's kind of interesting how some of the public views unions where they, I don you know, is a big deal. But it's kind of interesting how some of the public

views unions where they, I don't know, there's this billionaire worship that we have that goes on in our capitalist society that a lot of people just feel like, maybe we shouldn't have regulations because I might be a billionaire too someday and I want to just be able to game everybody. It's kind of interesting how America works. I think a lot of us, you know, got that kind of messaging very early on. And I think, you know, society is definitely structured, you know,

by corporations for corporations a lot of the time. And, you know, certainly I was not learning about these kinds of things growing up and kind of had to come to it myself. But I think there is a growing understanding. I don't think the red baiting works as much anymore, especially on a generation of workers who've seen that there's no real path to advancement.

There's no quote unquote American dream that they've been promised. And people have gone into student debt, and then they're told, you know, why did you waste your time getting a degree there? You know, that's not getting you anywhere. And then if they don't, they're told, you know, oh, you just need better training. But the fact is, the economy is pushing people into these jobs with no career advancement, very low pay, very unstable benefits. And so there's no real hope to change that except through organizing. And so I think people are turning to union organizing again as the

way out. Pete Yeah, which is interesting because it's 2025 and I don't know if you've checked lately, but we ended the democracies over and it's now fascism and kleptocracy. We basically become Russia. And then what else are we doing? They're just trying to destroy unions. I believe the administration right now is trying to destroy the government unions. They're trying to wipe out the jobs and they just think they can free dump everything. It's been interesting to see the blowback on Elon Musk. But after all that, we've had billionaires on the show. I mean, we've, I think there's another one coming up soon. The, you know, I mean, they're great people,

but you know, they, they love, you know, cheap labor so they can become even richer. And you know, we've kind of geared our laws and our taxes and everything else to basically tax ourselves more than some of these folks. And you know, it's a big deal in the book. Do you talk about your journey? I mean, your build is, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just looking through all the research I pulled on you, but you were, you were billed as the first person to create a labor union to Starbucks, is that correct? Yes, the first one in existence at the time, there had been some unions in the 80s in Seattle, and Howard Foltz made it

his personal mission when he took over the company in the 80s to decertify those unions. And he's written in his books about how he viewed unionizing as a referendum on his own leadership. And, you know, if he was doing a good job, then workers would simply not want to unionize, which was also the message he flew to Buffalo to deliver to us in person when he delivered what became the ill-fated notorious Holocaust speech where he compared Sarbeck's benefits to the Holocaust in a very strange and inappropriate analogy. I think I remember that. I think I remember hearing that. It was honestly a high point for the campaign because he was, they say the boss is the best

organizer. He was certainly changing hearts and minds to become more favorable for the union. Yeah. When your leadership is so bad that there's a referendum on it, that might tell you that it could be you, could be the leader. You know, every leadership and leadership's important, so feel free to jump in. No, I was going to say, honestly, you know, we were trying to encourage Starbucks to understand

that, you know, it wasn't personal, it wasn't about them. We just wanted a voice and a process and then their reaction sort of accelerated. Maybe it is you actually, if you're going to behave like this in response. Wow. No, I mean, what a lot of people don't realize is billionaires are globalists, and they can do business and do business all around the world. And they love third world countries where there's no workers' rights, where, oh, a worker got caught in the grind mill, whatever, no one cares.

The value of life in this third world country is meaningless. And they just sit and dream and fantasize about getting Donald Trump elected president in the second time. Wait, oh wait, what? That happened? Anyway, so they could, you know, basically bring that, you know, destroy workers unions, destroy workers rights and make it so that, you know, destroy workers' unions, destroy workers' rights, and make it so that, you know, they have a population that is desperate for any sort of job, will work for anything, will work for, you know, will just take the abuse. And I hope that there's a sea change on it after what we're seeing this attack on unions and stuff.

And yeah, it's kind of interesting. And they eventually figured out a way to kind of fire you or they figured out a way to kind of sideline you or sabotage you, I believe in what I'm reading about. Yeah, they ended up scheduling me for shifts that they knew I couldn't come into work because they wanted to try to drive a wedge between myself and my coworkers because it's no fun to work short staffed at a Starbucks. We've all had horror stories of shifts that you could barely run. So they just denied my availability requests, trying to schedule me when I was doing other work,

including organizing other Starbucks stores to try to force me to quit, which eventually worked because it was punishing my coworkers, not just me. And so that was not a situation that could just continue. Pete Yeah, that's crazy, man. But into, I mean, you can just tell as evil as they are about it and malicious as they are, this is something they really don't want and they really don't find value in. You know, I grew up, I grew up in the age, I grew up in the 60s and then into the 70s in my childhood. And I grew up in the age where there was this, this mantra that you went to work for a company for 40 years. You got a gold watch when you were done and nice retirement package and a pension. And throughout that time, you had a two car garage and a picket fence and yada, yada, yada, all that

Levittville shit in suburbia. Um, and that changed in the eighties, I believe was known chancellors. had a two car garage and a picket fence and yada yada yada all that Levville shit in suburbia. And that changed in the eighties. I believe it was known Chanskys or it was one of those big thinkers put out an article in the, in the thing and said, yeah, businesses change, fuck workers and, and let's focus on investor returns. And thus she began, I watched the eighties embark on this, you know, the great way to get your sock to bump and get a raise as a CEO is lay off 10,000 workers. And you

know, now you see it's, it's escalated to this point where a CEO gets paid, you know, I don't know a million times over what the frontline employee gets paid where and it used to be only a couple hundred It's insane. And yeah, I mean it's not you don't have to be a scientist to know where all the money's going really Yeah, I mean whether it's Starbucks baristas or the autopilot workers that we were trying to organize in Buffalo at Tesla who are making you know 16 or 17 dollars an hour in many cases, you know, at Starbucks, Michelle Eisen, who'd been there for 12 years was making 16 cents more than a new hire. So it's an insane situation when, you know, the standard of life of, you know, Homer Simpson is unattainable for workers at Starbucks or Tesla.

I like that analogy. We can't even make it to the Gibson level. Damn it. And it's a cartoon. House for whatever purpose. You know, and it's interesting, the leadership that's out there. Like I come from Vegas. I remember when Steve Wynn did this bullshit where he was going to be the first casino to pull tips from workers.

And of course, you know, if you understand how Vegas works or any great tipping location works, the money goes round, you know, even in Vegas, you know that you should tip well as a person because that money flows through the economic system of Las Vegas and comes back to you. And, you know, it's just like an economy really, when it comes down to it, you know, maybe I don't need to worry about tariffs in China, but they're going to affect me on the global scale of the roundabout of how economies work and rising tides lift all boats. And of course, if somebody bangs holes in the lifeboat, good luck with that.

That's kind of where we're at right now. But I remember he wanted to pull tips and one of the problems with it, it kind of creates a, instead of rewarding employees for being great at earning tips, you know, giving great customer service, helping people, being extraordinary, you know, not everybody is. There are lazy workers out there. They're not many, but there's enough of them to where kind of pulling tips is unfair. It's a bit communistic. And so I remember he was Steve Wynn invoke this and you know, the unions are pissed,

the the, and the workers at his hotels and he got up and he gave some speech in front of them crying because they passed this measure that to not pull their tips and you know, you betrayed me. It's like bloody crying, which is just annoying as it is. That's what they all do. They love to, they love some tears. I'm the victim. I'm the victim here. All these, all these workers are exploiting me. I just gave myself a raise of $10 million. I'm just so exploited. Lauren Ruffin No, exactly. Whether you're the CEO of the

Art Museum in Buffalo, who's making like six figure salaries and getting his kids private school tuition paid, but breaking down sobbing when baristas in the museum cafe are going on, are unionizing. They all do it. Pete Yeah. Meanwhile, I don't know about Starbucks baristas, but I know that at one point, I think it still is a fact, Walmart employees are paid so low at the front end that they were having to get government assistance. So, we were all as American taxpayers, subsidizing Walmart employees. And I, I mean, I am not saying anything bad about them. They're good people.

We need them. But, you know, meanwhile, these companies are making trillions, billions of dollars in profits on the backs of us. And you're like, what the hell? I mean, I like cheap goods as much as anybody, but you know, it's kind of interesting. Like I recently went into, this was a couple of months ago, but I recently went to this French restaurant, the sign French restaurants. It's here in Utah, very small, kitschy place.

You know, you can meet the owner in it. But it's, he's from France and they don't do tipping. And so I was kind of gasassed when I got the bill. I forget what they call it, but basically they, you know, it's called pay your employees living wage. So I was a bit miffed because I have a reputation as a good tipper and I like to tip well for good service and good food. And I, you know, I don't want to be seen as cheap.

I kind of have a thing about that. I grew up poor. So I don't want to act like I'm poor, I suppose. I don't know. Lauren Ruffin Folks who know the struggle and have grown up in like working in the industry are the best tippers because you have the empathy. Pete Slauson Yeah, you're right. I'm a salesman. And so, I know that when other people sell well, you buy from them. And I told the story in my book, Beacon's Leadership, about how I always buy from, you know, whoever's out selling in front of the store, those kids that are out

there because the, it's hard to sell to adults. And so anyway, but yeah, it, to see the attack on, on workers and it's amazing to me how many people just go, that's whatever billionaires rule. You know, there's something I just recently put up on my Facebook here that I thought was just really funny because I see all these people on Facebook and social media, worshiping billionaires and Elon Musk and stuff. And there was a guy El Ron Mexico off of Twitter. He wrote being a fan of a billionaire must feel like walking around a casino you don't own and hooting like a badass every time the house winds, licking the

urinals and calling the trash can sir. I mean, I think that just kind of sums up the ludicrous stupidity of, of why people are like willing to throw themselves on the pyre for, I will, I will die in the, with the Jonestown Kool-Aid because I respect billionaires. And you're like, they don't have any, they're globalists. They don't have any interests at heart. They just want enslaved, needy, desperate workers who work for anything. And they don't want to have any regulations. I mean, that's what's going on right now in the Trump administration, Elon, and then they're disassembling all of the regulations that go over big business people.

Exactly. I mean, I think corporations will do exactly what they can get away with in every context that they're operating with. And you're right that they're they're thinking globally like Starbucks fastest growing market is China where of course unions free unions are illegal there was just a lawsuit I think today over their use of you know forced forced labor i.e slavery and their coffee supply chain in brazil and you know they will go to the lowest common denominator of what they can get away with based on everywhere they're operating. But, you know, it is a race to the bottom, whether you're

working in a cafe in the US or in any part of the company around the world. Pete Yeah, we've seen the statistics too that show the disparity between wealth in this country, between the rich and the poor, between the CEOs and the frontline workers. And you know, we used to believe in this thing that a rising tide lifts all boats. And now we just, you know, it's just greed, kleptocracy. You know, I just want to make as much money as I can and fuck over everyone else and off we go. And to see people worship that mindset is even more extraordinary. You're like, you realize that, you know, it's like watching people worship Donald Trump

and you're like, he wouldn't let you have dinner with him or into his, some of his hotels or properties. In fact, some of you, some of them would show up and he'd be like, you're not dressed for this, go back to Alabama or whatever. And the red states are kind of fucking around and finding this out. So you tell your journey, what are you doing now? Evidently, you've got some stuff going on now where you're helping organizers, you're helping training, you're getting the word out. Tell us about that. you're getting the word out. Tell us about that. Yeah, so I've been part of a collective of organizers that works on the Inside Organizer School, which is a

school that, like a three-day training that we have around the country where we teach workers how to organize workplaces they're already in or how to get a job with the goal of organizing and how to, and how to link up with a union and get involved in strategic campaigns. And we've been expanding that school. I've been lucky enough to get a fellowship at the UC Berkeley Labor Center for the last year that's kind of, you know, I've been able to work on taking it. We've had our first West Coast trainings, our first Toronto training, we're planning one in Nashville. So we've really expanded the reach geographically

and we're recruiting folks. There's been a real surge, I think, of interest from young people in getting involved in organizing. And if you had a survey, the number one reason is everything going on right now because I think people are really seeing that the labor movement is not only the solution to their own economic issues, but also the best way to make a society that they want to live in. Pete Slauson Yeah. I mean, we've got to have a living wage for people. They've got to be able to keep up with inflation. You know, watching the trickle down economics of Reaganism, the liberalism from when I was a kid that have

never happened, the trickle down economics, it just doesn't work. It just doesn't. I think we all need to get really honest with ourselves about the little experiment of the Reaganism. Sadly, it seems like we've just gone 2.0 with what's going on with the current new administration. But I'm glad you're giving them hell. I'm glad you're taking this to the next level. Did you ever see this sort of mission, your purpose in life becoming this? Did you ever think this is your, how things would turn out?

Kirsten I mean, I fell in love with labor history when I was 16. And then I, as soon as I realized that you could still do labor organizing, I couldn't really see myself doing anything else. And I mean, I think I didn't really anticipate campaigns taking off and kind of, you know, attracting national attention like we got with Starbucks Workers United. But I think, you know, the best feeling in the world is helping workers who are just starting to think about organizing their workplace understand that they actually have power that they've been told or conditioned to believe that they don't have and helping people collectively

realize that and be like, we actually can organize, you know, the boss has to listen to us. When we win, we'll actually, you know, force them to bargain on an equal footing. And I think changing the power, like all unionizing really means is changing that workplace power dynamic so that the company has to take workers' voices seriously. You know, every company in the world practically will try to, you know, do everything short of actually giving workers powers. Let's, you know, fill out this survey. Here's our employee appreciation package, but they don't actually have to bargain on

an equal basis without a union. And so I think that's, that's the really fundamentally amazing part. And so, yeah, I love organizing because every time, you know, that people realize what their power is and that they already have it, they just have to figure out how to collectively exercise it. It's a really beautiful moment. And it can be complicated too. There's laws and rules and federal laws and state laws. I mean, it can be, I'm sure it can be mounting. If I decide to form a union, like, I have no idea where to start. So it's good that you have this out there.

Lauren Henry Yeah, I mean, I think the process can be a little bit overwhelming. Certainly, it's ideal if there's a union that's willing to take on an organizing campaign and support workers and, you know, bring down the hammer. We always say at the Inside Organizer School, Richard Bensinger's line, to win a union campaign, you need two key components. You need an organizing committee, which is the worker support. You must have a diverse and representative group of the

workers. And then you need a hammer. You need the leverage to bring down on a company so that you can actually win the right to organize. Because without, you know, you can win an election and then they can just stall the process, keep fighting the union, they have no incentives to agree to a good contract and they can try to, you know, have workers decertify the union or voted out eventually. So the most important thing is to try to figure out what the pressure on the company is

going to look like that would bring them to the bargaining table. Sometimes that could be a boycott. Excuse me, sometimes that could be a strike. It depends on what the workplaces and what the weak points are in their model. But I think public pressure is really, really critical. And so that's something that we're trying to help unions and organizing committees develop is, yeah, how do we actually not just win a campaign, but then win the right to organize in a contract? Pete Yeah. I mean, I just see, I love capitalism. I started my first company when I was 18. I've started lots of businesses. I believe in capitalism, I believe in democracy.

But there is a thing about unbridled capitalism. I believe somebody wrote a book about unbridled capitalism on the show too as well. It needs constraints because without it, people suffer. It's just like the same as government. Government needs constraints. It needs regulations. It needs the power, the people to have power, kind of like how our people who framed our constitution amended it so that, you know, the people have the power, or they're supposed to have the power,

let's put it that way. And, you know, so being able to, like you say, have that democracy, have the right to have a say, is super important. One of the challenges though, is people like yourself that have leadership skills, that stand out, that lead these sort of efforts, you guys really end up taking a hit. It becomes a toll, I think, on you guys where you guys kind of become, since you're the tip of the spear, you guys get the brunt of the attack or when it comes back at you, is that, tell us what that's like and maybe some of that experience. Well, I mean, I think within the labor movement, you know, not every union is committed to organizing.

And so a lot of unions sort of, you know industry or of the working class, but they're more interested in defending the existing members that they have or protecting the turf that they've gotten versus organizing unorganized non-union workers. And there's a billion dollar union busting industry in the US comprised of law firms, consultants, all of these different firms and groups that try to keep unions out of companies. And some of that's in-house, like the Amazon has a huge internal company team dedicated to what they call union avoidance. A lot of that is outside. That industry ends up targeting the handful of unions that are really trying to do what's best

and trying to organize more workers and people who complain about unions and have these stereotypes about the kind of bureaucratic or lazy union leadership, those are usually not the folks that are getting the brunt of the anti-union campaign because they're not organizing. It does end up singling out the better organizing programs and the more ambitious and more creative unions. And I mean, I think, you know, from Starbucks to Nissan, like, a lot of these companies have used the same exact law firms. So like, I've gone up against Littler Mendelsohn several times, I lost a campaign to this group. They're now unionized in a second election, thankfully, but a small coffee shop in Burlington, Vermont

hired a group called Sparta Solutions. And Sparta Solutions on their website talks about how their enemies are environmental groups, members of the media, and labor unions. And so they thought that hiring this anti-environmental union buster was a great selling point in Burlington, Vermont. But embarrassingly, the playbook works because they were pulling workers into meetings, they were having one-on-ones, and they were telling people, if you unionize, you might lose everything. And that often works. So the place is unionized now.

They're about to be in bargaining, you know, still an ongoing fight. But yeah, it's wild to keep going up against the same groups and the same playbooks, but yeah, unfortunately, it also terrifies workers a lot of the time. Pete Yeah, because you know, you don't want to get fired, you know, the intimidation, the slight, I don't know what the right word is, but there's kind of a slight sort of intimidation you can do to workers. Oh, anyway, you might not lose your jobs, you know, and I know there are some laws and rules against worker intimidation, but I know it still goes on.

You know, you see the way Elon carries on on social media and other people. It's pretty interesting. But I think, you know, hopefully we see an explosion of unions and workers' rights and a big sea change because it used to be working for the government up until 2025 meant that you had one of the safest jobs around, right? It was like one of the hardest things to get fired for. Now we're seeing, I mean, I just saw that 47, or the listings in Washington, DC are 47% because the layoffs and, you know, they, it turns out they weren't very protected or I don't know, it's still being litigated through the courts evidently. But still, it just shows you how much Republicans and their billionaire donors really hate unions and really hate workers having rights.

And hopefully we wake up in this country and quit worshiping billionaires that don't give a fuck about any of us, other than just how far they can score on the Forbes top 100 richest person list. I mean, there are people too, but honestly, a lot of them are so out of touch because of the way they live, God bless them, maybe they worked hard and got it. But Elon just kind of lived off the government basically. They don't seem to know what we as average people go through.

They don't know what a loaf of bread costs. A lot of them don't know a lot of these things. But boy, they sure know how much money's in their bank account compared to ours. So it's kind of, would you say you're getting the last laugh here? I mean, Starbucks thought they were destroying you by putting you at a job and pushing you out and here you are probably becoming one of their biggest enemies or any company's big enemy. I mean, we'll get the last laugh when we get a contract.

I'm still fighting for my job back because I want to outlast Howard Schultz at Starbucks. And so I haven't settled the case. I will be clocking back in at some point, although, you know, obviously the labor board is going to be a little bit more of a tough sell perhaps under this administration. Not that it was so great before. That's a longer story. Labor board is going to be a little bit more of a tough sell perhaps under this administration. Not that it was so great before, that's a longer story. There's no penalties under US law for companies that violate the law, only remedies. So it's so weak to begin with.

And then, Elon Musk, when he fired almost 40 workers in Buffalo, got away with it under the Biden labor board, just like he's getting away with it now, you know, with full support from the Trump administration. So it's not like it's so perfect, even at, you know, the quote unquote best of times. But yeah, I mean, I think the best thing we can do to try to resist authoritarianism and, you know, actually preserve democracy is to keep organizing. And so I don't know about the last laugh, but I think we have to keep organizing. And so I don't know about the last laugh, but I think we have to keep fighting. Pete Yeah. I mean, because once you don't have any rights, you don't have your rights. Once you lose your ability to have a democracy, you don't have a democracy anymore. And, you

know, people have got to stand up because, I mean, I mean, anyway, you describe it beautifully in your book and people should get your book so they can read it and they can get educated on what's going on with unions. They can find out more and hopefully, you know, you can spread the word even more broadly than what you're doing now. So thank you for that, Jess. Give us your final pitch up for peopleorderedthebook.com is where you'll be able to find you on the interwebs. Yeah, for sure. And thank you again so much for having me. It's so lovely to talk with you. I think the final word is, like, the takeaways I want people to get from the book are, you know, if we could organize, anybody can organize. It's not rocket science. We were kind of a very scrappy,

very ragtag, not very resourced group. And, you know, we got lucky in a lot of ways, but other folks can replicate exactly the same things that we were doing. If folks are looking to get involved and start organizing their own workplaces or want to get linked up with an organizing campaign, you can find us at insideorganizerschool.org and we'll try to help do our best to find ways to get folks connected and folks can attend upcoming trainings. And then yeah, my new book is Get on the Job and Organize, and you can find that at any local bookstore or not so local bookstore.

Thank you, Jas, for coming on the show. Thanks for being brave. I mean, seriously, it's tough being a leader, it's tough to be brave, but you know, you're taking on your little self and a big company of Starbucks, man, it's definitely a Goliath David sort of the Bible analogy there. So good for you. It takes, you know, what was the old, I think it's Samuel K. who said, the only way the evil wins is for good people not to stand up and do something, something that affect. And so good for you. It's hard, it's tough, it's dangerous.

I mean, there's been people threatened with violence and in the old days, they used to bust up unions with violence and murder and stuff. So, I mean, it's not cool. But I think it's super important. I think in what's going on in today's world, where we have a kleptocracy of billionaires running our government now, we've just become an oligarchy. I think more important than ever before, we need to wake up and realize that we need to get back to democracy, we need to get back to human rights and the rights of the average man and woman in America.

Thank you very much, Jazz, for coming on the show. Thanks so much for having me. Thank you, and thanks so much for tuning in. Go to Goodreads.com for just Chris Foster and all those crazy places. You can find us order the book where fine books are sold. Get on the job and organize standing up for a better workplace and a better world out April 29th, 2025. Thanks for tuning in.

Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time. And that's that's That's that's That's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's

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