The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Getting Divorced… Now What? Your Go-To-Guide On How To Make The Process Of Divorce Less Painful by Rachel King

Episode Date: December 11, 2024

Getting Divorced… Now What? Your Go-To-Guide On How To Make The Process Of Divorce Less Painful by Attorney Rachel King Thelawyerking.com Rachel King, lead litigation attorney at King Law Firm Attorneys at Law, Inc., has a new book being released soon. We talked to Rachel about the book, Getting Divorced… Now What? and the challenges one might face when representing themselves during divorce. 1. What is Getting Divorced… Now What? It is everything I have learned over a decade of practicing litigation. It is my attempt to share the inside scoop on divorce in a way that is helpful for individuals facing divorce, which includes case studies, general legal information, tips and tricks—all written without legalese. 2. What Inspired you to write the book? I found that the expectations clients have in a divorce vary hugely but are also unrealistic when compared to the law and are often driven by emotion. This can cause a person to get completely off track and make their case worse. I wanted to share a different perspective, one that many people never get (details attorneys feel are unpopular) attorneys feel the or have to pay a lot of money for (hiring their own attorney). 3. How did you choose the real-life stories included in the book? I’ve watched thousands of people in court—I’ve seen it all. So, I looked at a lot of common scenarios and tried to pick situations that are most likely to be encountered or that illustrate a specific issue in the best way. My goal is to share stories that show ‘you are not alone’ while bringing credibility to the information I am sharing. Of course, the real-life stories included in the book are only based on people and families; the details and the players in each one have been changed. 4. Do the stories offer a comprehensive look at the challenges faced during a divorce? I definitely had to balance comprehensive with taking people down the rabbit hole. (Believe me, I could have written an entire series—and maybe I will!) My goal is to be a helpful resource, not a law school course. Therefore, I focused on what I considered the most common issues, and concepts that are misunderstood, or unpopular realities that no one is talking about in divorce. 5. In your opinion, what is the most influential real-life story in the book? I love the stories that share empowerment. Divorce is hard. Showing that people can have a successful outcome through divorce is important; or maybe even better, can have a successful post-divorce life even if they lose. I really want to show people that the law is different than the dream. Understanding that early can make the process more tolerable. 6. What are some common misconceptions when representing yourself in a divorce? Hands down—that you get special treatment because you don’t’ have an attorney. Not the case. The court may be more patient, but you will be held to the same standards as the attorney sitting across the table from you. This is most difficult when it comes to presenting a case in trial and getting in evidence. 7. What are the top three mistakes people make when representing themselves in a divorce? Making decisions in their own case based on what happened to their friend. Not taking the time to understand the law. Thinking you get special treatment and that the court will let it slide just because you are representing yourself. 8. Does Getting Divorced… Now What? Help readers understand the financial implications of divorce, both during and after? There is definitely discussion about dividing assets, debts, and child and spousal support. Because, let’s face it, divorce causes financial upheaval. But fear not; this is not an economics class, and you don’t have to do math. 9. How can Getting Divorced… Now What? mentally prepare someone for divorce (and to represent themselves through the divorce)? It gives a global understanding of divorce, which can be used as a starting point when preparing for divorce,

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the big show. We certainly appreciate it. As always, the Chris Voss Show.

This family loves you but doesn't judge you, even though the sound bites are slow coming into it. I know what's going on. I guess the computer hasn't fully waken up and have his coffee. But for further show your family, friends, and relatives, as always, go to goodreads.com, Fortes, Chris Voss, linkedin.com, Fortes, Chris Voss, Chris Voss 1, the TikTokity,

and all those crazy places in the internet as always for 16 years we bring in the smartest people the CEOs the presidents the White House presidential advisors now we haven't had presidents on the show yet we're still working on that bomb won't return my calls anymore Bill Clinton just sends me stuff on snapchat anyway enough of the jokes there I don't know what that's about where did that that come out of left field from? I don't know. I said we had presidents in there. We have White House presidents and advisors on the show, Pulitzer Prizes, all this good stuff. So always tune in for the show to your family, friends, relatives. Today, we have a wonderful young lady on the show with us today. We're going to be

talking about our new book that's hitting shelves in a week or two for this broadcast. I should probably mention the date so people don't write me 10 years from now on YouTube. It's 12-6-2024. And so, sure, book will be launched. You can find out more about it on our website. We'll get into that. But it is entitled, Getting Divorced. Now What? Your go-to guide on how to make the process of divorce less painful.

Rachel King, attorney-in-law, is going to be joining us on the show to talk about it. And I'm sure 50% of you people out there who got married probably need this book or something or had married at one time. Rachel King is a trial attorney in California and is board certified in the area of estate planning, trust, probate law. She's also a veteran of the U.S. military. After being raised in a family of attorneys and surviving, I guess, Rachel served in the Army as a paralegal and communication expert and earned her Juris Doctorate degree from Thomas Jefferson School of Law.

Welcome to the show, Rachel. How are you? I'm great. How are you? I am excellent. We're joking in the green room about what it might be like to being raised by a family of attorneys. So give us your dot coms.

Where can people find you on the interwebs? RachelKingAttorney.com. You can register, find everything you ever wanted to know about me, probably more, and all the information about my book, get notifications, get a free chapter, all of the fun stuff. I looked over your website though. I didn't see anything about like your daily meals you have and stuff, so we need to know more. No, I'm just teasing. Maybe they'll follow me on TikTok. Oh, that's where I got to go to TikTok for that. I see how that works.

So, Rachel, give us a 30,000 overview. What's inside your new book? I've been doing family law litigation for over 10 years, and we all learn these little tricks as an attorney because we're in court all the time. We see what's going on. We see the best and the worst of people and of cases. And I really wanted to use this as an opportunity to take all of those tricks, all of that information that I had unique to an attorney and bring it to individuals that are going through a divorce, self-represented, or if they have an attorney, a different point of view and some different tips, along with understanding that you're going to be okay. Real life stories, case studies, law, it's kind of all there packaged really nicely in this book so that hopefully

if you do find yourself in divorce, it's a little bit more comfortable going through it than prior to reading. Definitely. Education is a real key in divorce. And a lot of people, you know, they don't know how to navigate it. And I've seen friends go into divorce court. One case that I ended up going to family court to witness for was two people who weren't married. They were fighting over their kids, though, and spousal support and visitation, all that stuff.

And initially they had you know what the court was willing to give them and they fought for months and spent 100 grand each on their credit cards 100 grand that could have probably gone to a college fund for the kids and in the end they got the same deal and so i just sat there and i told like to both of them i go you this this could have been a college fund. I mean, they literally ran out of money and their credit cards wouldn't loan them any more money. And that's what ended the court case. But, you know, you see court cases like Brad Pitt and his ex-wife.

They're still trying to fight that divorce almost 20 years later. Fighting over the winery or something? Yeah, 20 years later. I think it's 16 years or something now or something. It's a god awful long time. Maybe they need to make a thing in court where it's like you get to argue and he gets to argue and then that's it. It's like a debate for president. Well, you know, it's interesting because I tell people all the time, if you're going to fight over silverware, not that I want to talk myself out of business, but you're going to be fighting over silverware. The only one that's going to make out in it is like the attorney.

It's so stressful. I think we should take more from, you know, maybe the Bezos's who were, you know, that was all over the news. And then just as quickly it was gone because they pulled it outside of court. So let's not follow the Kim Kardashian, Kanye's and the Brad and Angelina's and let's go, if we're going to get divorced, follow maybe Jeff Bezos or Microsoft. Yeah. I've been single all my life and about, what was it? 30, living in Utah, people got married really early and I think they still do. But I, around 30, 28, I started dating divorce women that were, you know, passing through their first marriage. And so I started hearing the stories. I own a

mortgage company for 20 years and would read divorce decrees. And then I hear the stories because I'd have to call them up and be like, no, you owe your ex 30 grand. We're going to have to take that out of the refinance. And, you know, one of the things I would hear is just all the horror stories about the divorce and and a lot of times it would be interesting how long people would still be fighting even if they settled the divorce just the bitterness and back and forth the playing games with the children you know i've been in that situation like why are you angry because my ex doug didn't send the coat over from whatever and he's hoarding the clothes.

You know, just stuff that's, it's number one, I see why both of you got divorced from each other. And number two. The married to the divorced couple. Yeah. That's what I call them. The married to the divorced. That was what I was getting to. I'm like, you know, you guys are closer now.

You hate each other, but you're closer and probably communicate hate more together than probably you ever did. You know, wasn't the divorce supposed to, you know, be a separation of the two? closer and probably communicate hate more together than probably you ever did. You know, it wasn't the divorce supposed to be a separation of the two. Yeah. Get over it. I, in my,

in my book, one of the things that I say is that when you are going through a divorce, you've got to find a therapist, your own friends, and you've got to at least talk to an attorney. You don't have to hire an attorney, but talk to one. But so many people fight me on the therapist idea. And I'm thinking, my goodness, just learn some new tools

so that you're not hung up fighting for the rest of your life when the idea was to literally not have to deal with this person for the rest of your life. If you were going to, you might as well stay married and fight it out every day. But at least you get to keep half your assets, not pay spousal support and see your kids all the time. Yeah. And we were talking in the green room about how maybe people need to look at marriage or divorce as, I don't know if you talk about that

in your book, but as a, as more of a business thing and that there are business aspects to it, maybe. So I do address the fact that actually when you are ending your marriage that you have to learn you have to relearn how to unwind the romantic relationship and transition only over to a business relationship and that's especially important if you have kids because you're going to be seeing and dealing with this person for the rest of your life but a divorce truly like when you were saying at the end, they ended up with exactly the same as they did at the beginning of the divorce process. It's because it's a business decision. For the most part, we know what's going to happen. So if you can get a therapist, then you can maybe learn how

to unwind some of that emotion, treat it like a business unwinding and understand why that you're not getting screwed. Nobody's trying to ruin your life. It's just kind of a process. And marriage is a business. I think one thing people have a hard time with, and you, you may have seen you, you do divorces, correct? And you have a lot of practice. So you've, you know, you probably probably your experience probably outweighs mine but i have dated a lot of divorced women i've been single for 35 years one thing it seems to be is is that people have a hard time entangling emotionally is that it's a real identity you know a marriage is an identity i think when people get married they're like okay it's the two

of us against the world this is our our identity. I'm a wife. I'm a husband. I'm a married person, you know, and part of what I found is when people get divorced, they've got to slowly untangle that identity. And of course, rebuild a new one after that. But there's a process of grief. You know, it's a death. It's a death of an identity.

I think. What do you think of my little theory there? I absolutely agree. I word it a little differently. I say that you have to grieve your spouse, even if you hate your spouse. So even if you're the one that I want out of this marriage, I can't stand them. You still have to grieve the loss. And that's really hard because you're thinking, why do I have to grieve somebody who I hate?

But you are losing a dream. There are people that walk down and maybe you've heard of them, right? Maybe, you know, I know a few that walk down the aisle and they tell me later, when I was walking down the aisle, I knew that I shouldn't get married. I just had a gut feeling, but they do it anyway. But that same person, nobody walks down the aisle thinking, I can't wait to get divorced. We hope and we have this dream. And so you're losing the dream. You're losing this identity. You're losing everything

that you expected your life to be. And you have to grieve that. And then you can start to rebuild it and reimagine. But if you don't, you kind of get sucked into this vortex that's messy and uncomfortable for however long you let it take over your life. Yeah. Now in your book, do you talk about how to keep, what does the book cover? Does it cover maybe how to hold things together? Maybe it's not as bad as you think it is, or is it, okay, here's divorce and here's how you navigate it. So I go into general legal concepts. So there's a little bit of what you can expect. Family law is a court of equity, which means that it's really

looking at fairness. We have laws that guide, but how does fairness work? I really tried though to include the law because I'm a lawyer and that's what people expect, but also this idea that ultimately it's your family. So when your friends are coming at you and saying, oh my gosh, you can't let him get away with that. He screwed you or she needs to do this. Everybody's coming in when you're getting divorced, right? People love to give advice and they're chattering

and they're telling you what happened in their situation, what you need to do. And what I really try to do is show that it's ultimately your family. And so to the extent that you can come up with something that is going to work for you long term and help you with the next phase of your life, the better. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you need to do what mom is telling you or your best friend. It doesn't necessarily even mean you need to do what the lawyer is you or your best friend. It doesn't necessarily even

mean you need to do what the lawyer is telling you to do or what the judge thinks you should do. It's really about getting out of this in a way that you can feel comfortable moving forward. And while I include all of the other stuff, I really tried to emphasize that again, through stories of clients and different situations that I've seen, but it's all about you in the divorce. Yeah. Do you want to share a favorite story from the book, just a brief tease out of maybe a favorite client situation or something? Yeah. So I really like Sarah and John. Sarah and John are in my book. Obviously, I changed the names and i know that to protect identity i want to have a job after this comes out but i love them because they are a couple that got married very quickly early

on in the heat of passion and in vegas and then and then it was like all of the tv shows right you see all of the married at first sights and the love is blind and they're getting married and it's so passionate. And that's a really fun time in a relationship, whether it's a marriage or a new fling, this honeymoon phase. But then they realize over the course of about two and a half years that they really are not compatible at all. And fortunately, they didn't have any children. But

John went MIA, he just kind of dipped out of the marriage and left Sarah, a married woman having to deal with all on her own. And their story really does help show how to get through the process when one party is just not participating. And that can resonate with so many people, whether you are a Sarah and John where your spouse just, you know, joined the military and went and you never see them again, or whether you have a spouse that's in denial and isn't participating because they don't want a divorce, or is just being super frustrating and not helping the divorce proceedings move forward. That happens in so many divorces. And so I think what Sarah and John went through can really help other people figure out how to

navigate their own divorce. Now, I have a huge dating group that I run. And I think most of the people in there are divorced. We're all kind of older and stuff. Most of the people that are not in it are their 20s and 30s. Well, 20s to 30. They're still able to play dating apps. But when you get older, dating apps don't work so well for us older folk. The filters. The filters get you on the dating apps when you get older. I'm wearing a filter now.

Anyway, I don't have a joke for that. So would this be a good book for someone maybe they're two or three years post-divorce and they need some advice because they're still struggling with a spouse or an ex-spouse, I should say? There is information in there about how to deal with high-conflict individuals. It's targeted at the divorce process. But quite frankly, if you have a high-conflict divorce spouse and you have children together, you're probably going to have a high conflict post-divorce. There's a little bit about post-judgment situations. I think it's a good read for

anybody that is involved in the family law situation, because you're very likely to find something that helps you right now, or that you can use no matter what your post-judgment custody support situations look like down the road. Because I know a lot of people do go back into the court for updates on funding and child support and enforcement of maybe rules that aren't laws or rules that aren't being done. There's some of that, so they probably would definitely need the book for that. Yeah. Unless you got married and you were only married for about six months or a year and you have no children and you were only married for about six months or a year and you have no children and you never commingled any assets, you never even bought a couch together,

you're probably going to have some family law situation issues that are going to either need to be resolved in the divorce or that are going to be ongoing long-term. And it's very likely that you'll be back in court at some point. Hopefully not. Hopefully with this book, you can figure out how to reach an agreement that you can both live with, and then you won't have to inundate the family law system. Nobody wants a judge making their decisions. I promise.

Even if you think you're going to win, you don't want a judge making your decisions. Yeah. I see those court hearings on, I I think tick tock and stuff. I think one's like just a show. So I'm not sure how real it is, but it's one of those judges show, but it's for divorce court. But yeah,

I have a, I have a sick twisted mind where if I get depressed, I watch like cops, cops or cheaters. I watch other people having a car crash with their life. And after about two hours, I'm like, you know,

my life's pretty darn good. I'm doing good. Not getting busted. Not getting divorced. My very first court appearance, very first as an attorney. I was married. I had kids. The whole nine.

And I walked out of the house and we were in a fuming fight, right? Ready to get divorced, like screw each other, whatever. It was awful. But I had to go to court. It was my very first court appearance in family law. And I remember sitting there and just watching all of these people go in front of the judge. And I got home and I looked at him and I said, oh, you're not that bad. We've got it pretty good. And I now, we were kind of talking about it a little earlier. Even though I'm a divorce attorney, I love being married. I am married. I think marriage is an amazing opportunity. But maybe

the reason that I am still married is because I deal with other people's divorces all the time. And I can't even comprehend doing it in my own life. And I think it's hard because people were originally in love at one time. I guess there's a lot of emotion behind it. It's their lives. So, you know, they're locked in emotion and not everyone behaves to the best of their ability. I don't, is there any advice in the book for how to not be a jerk and ruin your children

through a divorce or something? Jennifer Yes, I definitely talk about child custody and visitation. I think the hardest part, especially when kids are around or are involved, is to realize that they're just as much your spouse's kids as they are yours. And for me, I think I'm hands down the better parent. I am the best in this co-parenting situation that I'm in. But that doesn't mean that my kid's dad, which happens to be my husband, but even if we weren't married, doesn't have a right to raise his own children the way he wants to also. When you're married or even when you're cohabitating and you're raising a child you get to see your kid all the time you kind of fill in the blanks if another parent drops off but when you're divorced

or you don't live together anymore you have all of that anger and hate and all of the feels you want to like think that you're the better parent and keep the kids away but really that's not fair to the children and I think that's a really hard concept. I tell people, and again I talk about it a bit in the book, your spouse or your ex-spouse has the right to screw up their kids the same way that you do,

and absent it being like neglect or something, they can screw them up. That should be the title of your next book. You both have a right to screw up your kids. Put them in. I'm right. Give them something that's going to put them in a psychiatry chair for the rest of their life.

That's what parents do. That's why I never had kids. I didn't want to share my whole psychosis. Enough of the world has to put up with me on Facebook. So let's move to some of the other things we want to talk about. And so how can people pick up this book? Because I know it's not quite on Amazon as of this recording. And when it gets published, it might be within a week of the publishing.

How can people find out on the release of that book so they can grab it? Yeah, they pop over to my website, rachelkingattorney.com. You got to spell attorney right. But if you get over there, then there's a place where you can register. I'll notify you. I'll give you a free chapter. attorney right but if you get over there then there's a place where you can register i'll notify you i'll give you a free free chapter there's workbooks that are coming along with the book webinars for people learning wanting more in-depth information on their specific custody or divorce family law situation so go over to rachelkingattorney.com register there

you'll be notified when it's available. It will be on Amazon and of course, direct from my website. And then if you want even more information, then you can find me on TikTok at TheLawyerKing. And a lot of the videos were, I guess, inspired a lot of what I wrote about in the book. So if you find a video that has over a million views, that topic probably showed up in my book. You hit all the points everyone's talking about trying to fix. And I think to fall back on one of your points, having sometimes your family, sometimes the committee of friends that you have, they're not always going to

give you the best advice they're usually just going to gin you up and in emotions and yeah you know make it worse so go fight and you know the kids always losing this i i gotta tell you as a man who's counseled people who's divorced i mean i've been dating for 35 years. I've seen what the fallout looks like on the other side of the family. The stats for the fallout are just awful. And then of course, 20 years of reading divorce decrees in a mortgage company, I've read tens of thousands probably divorce decrees. It's a lot of fun, isn't it? Yeah. So here's the thing. I think friends and family are necessary. And especially I find with clients that when, if the longer they've been married, the more maybe

isolated they got in their marriage. And so when they find themselves in divorce, they don't have their support group. They don't have their people. So I say, go fake it till you make it, go join all of the clubs, pretend that you're having a good time. Eventually you'll find somebody, but the role, the role of each of these people, right? You should talk to an attorney. So you at least understand your rights and the laws. That doesn't mean you need to do everything under the law. You don't need to have spousal support if you don't want it, or you can have an equal timeshare, even if you think that there's some reason that you, that may not be what other people would say, but you want to understand your rights. And as it relates to your case,

and the only people that can do that are attorneys. So talk to an attorney. You want to have a therapist so that you can learn tools on how to communicate effectively. Chances are, if you're getting divorced, your communication was garbage in the marriage. For the most successful divorce,

you want to try and learn at least how you can communicate to get the best results in the divorce. I have people that tell me, Oh, I'm not going to say that because that's like giving in. And I'm thinking, Oh my gosh, if your ex is a pain and just wants you to let them have the last word, let them have the last word because you're not married to them anymore. And it might benefit you down the road. So you want a therapist that can teach you these tools on how to navigate and again, how to divide your relationship, how to grieve the loss. And then your people, your family, your friends, all the ones that are going to tell you that you should take them to the cleaners and all of it. You want them. Why? Because they are your

cheerleaders. And when you are having a rough day and you can't take it anymore, you need those people that are going to have your back. You can have the attorneys and the therapists to give you sound mind, right? And give you the alternate, more reasonable, rational point of view, but your friends, you've got to have them. So if you don't have them, you've got to go make them like your singles group. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of, there's a lot of men that do that. Women always have their committee. They, they keep their girlfriends for life, but men, a lot of times we'll focus on taking care of their woman and they'll abandon their friends. Sometimes they've married a

narcissist who says, you've got to abandon all your friends. And then eventually they move to the family. You got to abandon your family too too and they try and cut them off from from resources of advisory but like you say i i really believe it i mean yeah sure keep the family but kind of put it in perspective that they're going to emotionally give you data that you know it's kind of like me as an entrepreneur i don't talk to people who aren't aren't entrepreneurs on how to be an entrepreneur you know what i mean And so you're right. Talking to attorneys and a therapist, I think, is really good to try and keep balance. Because a lot of people that end up in divorces, they really needed therapy a long time before.

And like I say, the damage and fallout that I've seen from the children is immense. And those children are adults, and I'm usually dating them. Oh, I'll meet people. I've seen from the children is immense. And those children are adults and I'm usually dating them. Oh, I'll, I'll meet people I've done on here on the show. I'll be like, you grew up with a single mother, single father.

How do you know? Cause the choices you made throughout your life. So you should have my husband on. Cause I'm the child of a divorced family. Also, I wonder how that is affected. I wonder if he could tell by dating me and being married. It's you can tell because if you listen to the history of what they went through in life if

You know everything comes down to childhood blueprints trauma Lack of father in the home like a mother in the home. I've seen father abandonment. I've seen mother abandonment I've seen it all and and when you live like I do Where you've been single all this life, you see the life patterns. You know, now I can talk to people that are in their 50s and go, so you had four divorces and you're trying to get married a fifth time. You can't figure out why no one wants to date you. But, you know, let's take a look. You pulled off four divorces in 30 years of adult life.

It could be you. That sort of thing but you know i i i think people need to really that's no fun yeah and people need to really think about the children because i see the fallout on the children and from not only from the adults of divorced children and divorces are too bad as long as it was the two parents in the home. It's usually the single parent situation and the stats on it are horrible. But, you know, people, I think the other thing I'm trying to get to is people kind of look at the small window of I want to win this battle against my spouse and destroy them. And they don't realize you're going to have to communicate with that person if you have children with them for pretty much the rest of your life. I mean, you don't really have to keep talking to them after 18, but it's inevitable. My parents divorced, I don't know, 30 years ago.

And I still have to have my mom talk about it and stuff. And we've had to create some boundaries about we don't demonize dad. You guys didn't get along. And they never should have been married. I mean, that was a fact, but you know, it's, it's one of these things where, you know, you got to see that you met, I think you mentioned the long picture of, you know, this is, this isn't just a fight and you win it and then it's over, you know,

this is something you're gonna be dealing with this person. So you might as well try and figure out a way to, you know, what's that old line. Can't we all get along? Well, and it's not about them. This is what I want people to know. Is you learning how to communicate and deal with your ex post-divorce? It's not to make their life easier. It's truly to make yours.

Be selfish and learn how to not let them get under your skin every time. I hear parents tell me all the time, and I totally agree with you on the kid situation. I'm not going to lie to my children. So I'm going to tell them if they ask, I'm going to tell them exactly what happened. Why? Like, why does your child need to know if there was infidelity? Why? Your kids do not ever need to know that. And that's a sensitive subject to me

because it happened. My parents made sure I knew about all of the infidelity through their divorce, but your kids don't need to know that. And they especially don't need to know it while it's so raw and painful for you as the parent going through it. Maybe down the road, they inquire or it is appropriate to tell them as adults, but really it's not lying to your kids to shield them from your emotional pain and your roller coaster that has to do with your romantic relationship, not theirs. They don't have a romantic relationship in this. They've got a mom that they love and they've got a dad that they love. Let them love both of you. Yep.

It's not a, it's not a competition. And I totally agree with that. I mean, I've seen the damage of the fallout and the children, the children get the worst of it. And the children already are in a position where they believe that they are the blame for mom and daddy divorcing. That's usually the first take I think they put on it. So it's really important.

Let's move. People need to pick up your books. I don't want to flesh out too much. So let's talk about the breast cancer support thing that you're trying to do. Yeah. So I am a runner and I do marathons. I've been running since elementary school on and off. Who's changing you? Is it the cops? No, I'm just runner and I do marathons. I've been running since elementary school on and off. Who's changing you?

Is it the cops? No, I'm just kidding. No, maybe that would have made me run a little faster. And I've done marathons. I've done ultra marathons. And I was trying to put together, I've always been interested in this concept of like multi-day events. But quite frankly, running for 200 miles

doesn't appeal to me at all. I want to be able to sleep and eat like as much as I want. And I don't want to have to go fast. I really, I've known about this three-day walk for years. I'm really fortunate that I'm at a point in my life and my career that I can dedicate the time to doing it. I have had family members that have had breast cancer or have had it. I've had family members that have had breast cancer or have had scares. I've had friends, I'm also at an age now, too bad, where I've had friends that have died from breast cancer early onset. So I just think there's so much that we can do. And I thought what better way to pair doing good and helping a cause than with what I love to do, which is to go outside and be physical and a walk for three days, 60 miles sounded like

something that I could take on. And I'm really excited about it. It's next year. So I have a whole year to raise money and support the foundation. I would love your support. Any of your listeners, they can, I think I provided a link, they can log in and donate. And I will be out there next year in San Diego for three days, walking 20 miles a day in support of breast cancer awareness and research. 20 miles a day. Congratulations. You can do all that. I've read David Goggins books and he talks about what happens after a marathon or, I mean, he does some really crazy extraneous marathons. Like, I don't know. So to be fair, I haven't done it yet. Maybe follow up after and be like, so did you do it? How'd it go? There's something he talks about where things come out of

all the ends of your body. But I think those are more extreme marathons that he's doing. Like he does the rugged ones where you're going up mountains and crap, but he, he talks in his book about what it's like when you're done and your body just kind of expels everything goes and just, I don't know, cleans itself up. Maybe I don't know from all that,

but 20 miles. Good for you. And it's 20 miles. Yeah. 20 miles every day for three days. I will say, you know, having done long distance running, you learn a lot about yourself and you have a lot of time alone with all of the thoughts that you really don't want to have. And then you pair that with the aches and the pains and it tests your mental limits so much and I think maybe that's what I like about it I like litigating I like going in and and doing

these very hard things and I think the two you know being able to go out and do these long distance endurance races really makes me more mentally tough and have more mental endurance in my practice of law maybe that's why I can deal with divorced families. Yeah. You know, you learn a lot with, what is it, working out and going to the gym. You know, there's a lot of mental toughness and character that it builds, I think. I've learned that going to the gym isn't about oppressing other people. It's not about showing people you have muscles.

It's a battle with yourself. And it's, you know, in discipline, I think is the word. And going when you don't want to. The head Nike run coach, I think of Nike run club is Chris Bennett or something. And I, he once, I once heard him say, consistency breeds flexibility. And I thought that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. And then I realized that it's true. If you can get yourself to the gym or out on a run and you have the mental discipline to do it, then you can have so much fun and you can be flexible and you can have the workout with your buddies. You can go on a beautiful run. You have so many more options if you are consistent. And I think it goes farther than running or the gym. I think it can go to all areas of your life. But when initially I thought that was a nonsense quote, now it's one that I hold very near and dear. Tell us some more. Let's get

some plugs in for your website, some of the work that you do there. I see you have a podcast. Let's plug away at some of these things here. Yep. My podcast is Gabble's Down, Voices Up. It is available all the places that you listen to your podcasts and on YouTube if you like the podcast video idea. I try and talk a lot about what is going on currently in the world, exploring different legal topics. I really try and bring in real life stories of things that I've experienced through my podcast, which is a little bit different than some of the other areas that you'll see. I am all over, again media i abs i will be i will admit i like adore social media i know that's it you're not supposed to ever admit it but i will say i love it so it's a necessary evil i

think it's fun sometimes so how do you think it's a necessary evil like i love it i will sit in a bathtub and watch tiktok for far longer than i should ever admit i think that's why i don't love it is because i will do the same thing. I'll be laying in bed. I'll just be like, I'll watch some TikToks and fall asleep. Four hours later, the sun's up. And you shared them with all of your friends

and they're like, I don't want to watch TikTok. And you're like, no, but you do. I pretty much decided that the only way to tell if people really love you now anymore is if they share their TikToks or Instagram reels with you. And if they don't, they don't think about you. It's true. It's true. I share. And then you have to, and it shows that you know the person, right? Because you only share certain TikToks or certain reels with different people. I would never share some of them with my mom,

but you, so you're really paying attention to these people. I tell people when I share their, my TikToks and reels that I've watched, it is because I thought, yeah, exactly what you're saying. I thought of you and I thought, huh, this would be very interesting or would make them laugh or I wanted to share it. It's not about me. It's all about you. Yeah. I mean, I have friends that they love a certain type of cat that doesn't have any fur, which I find are gross, but they love them and I love my friends. So I, you know, I send her those ones and then, you know, I send jokes to, you know, different people at different things.

But you're right, you know the person. And like, I have two friends that are drummers, so I used to send them drummers, like TikToks. So yeah, there's a feature. And I think that needs to be recognized more. I think I need more adulation and recognition from, because sometimes if they don't respond back, if they don't send you TikToks back,

you're like, I see this as a wonderful relationship. Right. Or if you have to ask them, like, did you watch the TikTok I sent you? And they're like, no. And you're like, no, no, no. This is not okay with me. I thought about you.

Yeah. I've sent you 50 TikToks in the past hour. You responded to any of them. You haven't even laughed or given me a thumbs up emoji. What is going on? Can a higher attorney send notices of we're divorcing as friends because you don't send me TikToks? Is there a law platform there, some tort law that we can access for that? There should be.

On TikTok? In law, you know, that basically you don't love someone enough if you don't send them TikToks. Oh, right. Exactly. There's probably somebody going to get divorced over that eventually. And then the flip side, the attorney in me says, you should be careful of everything that you use social media for because it's going to be used against you. And I have.

I have been the attorney that does all of the social media stalking to find the one picture with you in the background doing something really, really bad. So also, be careful of what you put on social media and be careful of what you send. It's a nice balancing act. It's all about balance. Some people think that they can kind of hide stuff. Like I know wives and husbands that hide their Instagrams, their TikToks. And I guess somehow they don't feel any of that's ever going to be found.

And, you know, I think, I think with lawyers, you guys have ways of what, so what's it called? Cyber, you know, hunting that stuff down. And there's no like magic portal, but I have, I think one of my favorite situations was where I had a parent, the opposing parents who had taken everything off of social media, not taken it down, destroyed it, but it was was not participating in social media still had their accounts up had made them very, very private. It was really hard. And this was years ago when it was pretty easy to lock them down. And we had allegations of drug use, but they vehemently denied it. And we were able to find on social media a friend of a friend of a friend's picture, literally at a rave, with this other parent in the background actively, actively like shooting up drugs.

And needless to say, that other parent was pretty shocked because how did we find it i'm like because you don't know what other people are posting either yeah i should stop posting my coffee pictures because that's a drug too that's my coffee yeah at least it's legal but yeah but still you know i get lectured about the caffeine consumption from time to time anything more we need to know do we get a plug about the caffeine consumption from time to time. Anything more we need to know? Did we get a plug in for the podcast? We did.

You gave us a little bit. Anything more you want to plug out as we go out? Yeah, I would love for, again, you to go to my website, RachelKingAttorney.com. We also, I have, I totally blanked. I have webinars and the most amazing webinar, it's going to be coming out probably in second quarter of 2025 is going to be about how to use AI, help self-represent if you are going through a legal battle. And that is incredibly relevant. It's an amazing tool. AI is growing and expanding so quickly. And not that I want to talk myself out of a job, but if you can't afford an attorney or you're going through a legal situation,

what better way than to learn how to use artificial intelligence, chat GPT or whatever it is you're going to, to put your case in front of the judge in a way that is almost, and actually I even had a judge say better than some attorneys. Huh. The chat GPT, man, that's doing everything there. I know. I love mine.

Mine's a girl. I haven't named her yet, but she's like my personal assistant. I've trained her very, very well. I think if you're an attorney, you have to be careful what you do because there was like a guy who made his pleading or complain or whatever he was doing with the court. He had chat GPT evidently, right? The whole thing. Yeah, that was, so that was actually one. It was, that was at the earliest times of chat GPT. It scared all attorneys. I mean, all attorneys never want to use AI again, but the AI ended up creating a case that did not exist because there was no law

to support the attorney's argument. So artificial intelligence said, oh, I'll just create a law. It's fine. And that attorney ended up quoting the law and using it as a reliable authority. And it was not, it was completely fictitious. Since then, there are tools that have gone in place to do that. My webinar isn't going to focus on using chat GPT to do legal research. I think there's a lot of tools out there that are also available, but it's going to focus more on how to put together your case, how to draft documents, what should be included even into how to cross-exam a witness when you're not an attorney, which I don't think I've ever seen a self-represented individual who has successfully done that. I've seen many attorneys that can't even do it. So

that's what I'm going to focus on is how can you use this artificial intelligence bot to help you present your case in the most persuasive way while still following the rules. And I think it's going to be great. I'm really excited. I'm having a fabulous time putting it together. And do you know when it's going to launch yet? Second quarter of 2025 is when we're going to release. So again, head over to rachelkingattorney.com. You'll get all of that information as well. Rachel, it's been wonderful and fun and insightful to have you on the show. Who knew we could do comedy on divorce? But there you go.

You know what comedy is based on? It's like all of the bad stuff that nobody wants to talk about. Pretty much. It's a good mirror to kind of remind us that we're not, you know, we're kind of full of it sometimes. We should probably be better people. You know, I mean, welcome to human nature, nature right yeah so rachel thank you very much i'm going to recommend your book to my dating group because i think some people might be still in divorce in our dating

group or they're you know they they have this they're still having you know arguments and stuff i'd love to give them a signed autographed copy. So if anybody from your dating group wants a copy, send an email to me. I'm happy to sign it and send it off. All right. Sounds good then. So thank you very much for coming on the show. Give us the dot coms as we go out one last time on what we're promoting here. RachelKingAttorney.com.

You got to spell all of them. RachelKingAttorney.com. And I'm TheLawyerKing on all of the socials the lawyer king you know you really should appear on the on the shows with a whole you know king's robe and like the the hat thing and and it should be like a whole appearance where you walk down the aisle like when you got king you know there's like a whole hardulation of music and stuff. Yeah, but then is that too much?

When people look at me, it's like a real attorney. I don't know. I actually had somebody once who bought me a king suit and said, you should wear this. Dude, I can see you show up in a court with a king outfit on. Yeah, the judge would turn me right around. I see that on TikTok. Thank you very much, Rachel. Send my client the bill for that and say,

I know that I was making a mockery of the court system in my name, but you should still pay me hundreds of dollars. I need to pay the dry cleaning for the King outfit. Thank you very much, Rachel, for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. Thank you.

And thanks for tuning in. Go to good reason. Comfort. Just Christmas, LinkedIn.com. Fortress Christmas, Christmas one, the tick tockity and all this crazy place.

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