The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – God, by Man by Oguchi H Nkwocha

Episode Date: July 11, 2026

God, by Man by Oguchi H Nkwocha https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DR3NBT52 In this bound-to-be controversial work of theological scholarship, Oguchi H. Nkwocha, M.D., propounds some fascinating and bold theories about religious beliefs. Rather than support his contentions with an abundance of scriptural quotations, the author skillfully builds the case for his unorthodox views with deductive reasoning.Taking an antifundamentalist stance, he asks readers to reexamine man’s relationship with God. The author reveals how various religions and religious sects function by inventing gods and then assigning those “creations” the qualities of omniscience and omnipotence. Evading the reality of the real Supreme Being, mankind has often manufactured his gods in his own image.Instead of presenting his striking theories in an abstract manner, this writer/philosopher relates the shortcomings of many religions by juxtaposing them with such contemporary issues as homelessness, sexism, and ecology-issues which most religions fail to address squarely, if at all. Dr. Nkwocha’s book is at its most compelling when it dissects the way in which religions have evolved from mankind’s need to understand the complex mysteries of nature.Students of religious history will be eager traveling companions on this journey through times as Nkwocha delves into pagan rituals, the traditional political power of the priesthood, and the manner in which our gods continue to fail us when we seek answers to cosmic enigmas.Whether you are an atheist, an agnostic, or a true believer, this profound treatise offers grounds for enlightened spiritual discussion.

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the opinions of the host or the Chris Foss show. Some guests of the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it is not an endorsement or review of any kind. Today we're an amazing young man on the show. We're going to be talking about his book and his insights. His book is entitled God by Man by... Abduichi in Quachia. So welcome the show.

How are you? sir. I'm good. How are you? I am excellent. It's good to have you. So you were born in Nigeria, spent most of your adolescence there, attended high school, and you moved to the U.S., attended college, got a BS in pharmacy at Idaho State University. His schooling continued as he or later earned an MD degree from college medicine at University of Utah, right at the block from us. Not a physician, now a physician for almost 20 years. He and his wife live on the coast of California and their daughters. Well, so welcome the show. So let's get dot coms out of the way.

How many, tell us about people where people can find you on the interwebs. The new books. Okay. So right now, the three new books are going to be found of Amazon.com. This particular one should be out on Amazon.com, God by Man. And there's another four, a set of four, that will be republished. all these books were originally published about between 20 and 30 years ago when I was much younger and dinosaur eggs were still founded in the Swiss of California states.

Oh yeah. That used to be a thing, didn't it? Used to be a thing. So give us the 30,000 over you, what's inside the book, God by Man, the one we're going to lead off and speak about today. Okay. Essentially, this book is saying that the gods that we worship now and the religions and sex, they are all created by man to meet man's needs, which does not mean that there's no real God there, whatever we mean by that,

because the universe is a big place that's larger than the universe itself and all that would be what somebody might conceive as God itself. But not the little creations that we have. that we call God. And once we assign Godness to them, deity to them, we assign powers to them, and we try to compel others to follow along. So this book just goes methodically shows why we might create those gods. And then also encourages us to look beyond that,

that there's really something of God that is there beyond and besides what we have created. As an atheist, I'm always baffled, not baffled, but I'm always beleaguered, maybe it's the right word, by gods and religion and everything else that we create. And it's almost interesting. No one sees the fallacy of the hypocrisy or the irony, maybe, what did you pick your word, is it's pick your word show night. That God has always made in man's image, and he seems to have a lot of behavior problems that people have. and he seems to operate like people and think like people and do people. And you're like, a guy who would have, assuming the Bible is true, and most Bible scholars say it's not, it's a great work of fiction.

And maybe some of the stories have some semblance of truth. There's no proof of a lot of it in the book. And it's interesting to me that if there were an omnipotent being out there, who was creating a whole universe, worlds, gods, and God knows what other creations he might have. Certainly he just wouldn't do this, that that person would be so small as to reflect the behaviors of human nature.

You know what I mean? It seems, and everything, for some reason, God's always broke, too, and he always needs money. I think I stole that from Carlin. But he's always begging for money, which is really interesting because it's usually being pocketed by people

who aren't him. And last time I checked, there's not some trust fund or chair that money's going towards whatever. It seems like I just grease the local preacher in the alleyway. Somehow, he has the pneumatic tube that sends a cut of that to God or something. But God's always broke. So not only is the omnipotent created all this stuff that's really cool and kind of interesting, evidently you can't print money like the U.S. government. in line with what you talk about in the book and on a certain wavelength? Yes. I'm saying that either you read the book or you should write a book like that

or the same courses that are driving you or your typical human being, right? Yeah. Because that's what we've done. We've created those gods and giving them the traits of human beings and magnified them and fantasize them. So we're creating those gods. Yeah. As for being an atheist, unbelieving God, it depends really, again, this is what this book is going to think about it. Just whatever term that you use, look at the totality of the place that we find ourselves in, the vastness, the difference,

and all that being articulated as one entity, okay, beyond beyond our imagination. That's really the type of that I think about. Yeah, a type of God that to my mind would have created all this. And I thought about this when I was young in my childhood and early teens. I would look around my world and I would look at just the complex of the creation and the mathematics and the physics of what would have to take place and all this stuff. And when you really think about it, we would probably, if there was a creator, if there is a creator, we would have no idea who this person is until they reveal themselves to us. And they're probably not in our image. For all I know, there are a bunch of aliens that were just like,

it's building an aquarium called Earth, and we'll show a bunch of stupid animals in it and watch it from afar and see what happens. We're just like some ant farm for some guy who, I don't even know if it was a guy. Maybe there's no sexual proclivity where he exists. Maybe they're all these, they, thems, or maybe they just don't recognize that part of creation. And we're just like an ant farm that they set up. one day and probably wandered off and forgot about it. They were probably creating stuff on the other side of the universe or something.

Okay, so let's look at it this way. Rather than being that farm, okay, so you use the word creation. That's what deceives us. We look at this creation, making things and so on. What about being things? What about this being, whatever it is, it's being everything that can be, because that's just the principle of the thing. They don't, they eat or eat or they, they don't, they eat or they,

did not create ant forms, but they just became the ants. It just ants. So whatever the ant is doing, that's what the ant is doing. That's what the ant is doing. Whatever else exists, whether it's a thought or process or action, that's just that thing being bad. So no creation at all, no creation, no creator, just being just being this. Being all you can be, being what you can be including even not being, being part of that equation. Not. You can also not be. Yeah.

So do you, now is this a spousment of your beliefs, or are you challenging some of these deals from an academic standpoint? Both ways, because at the end of the day, there's really no boundary there. We can draw artificial boundaries if we like. It doesn't help this situation. because we're a scientist in the sense that we question things, we look for things. And then we also believe us in the sense that we have faith and we think we believe some things without looking for facts, either we're too lazy or we don't have the time.

We just say, yeah, for the heck of it. Yeah, so that one can swing from one extreme to the other or just play the whole field. It is not necessary to be one or the other. It can be both all at the same time. The truth can be true, I guess. what you're saying. I'm sorry, I missed that. What you just said was two truths can be true, right? It can't just be, it's not an either-or truth. Yeah, it's not binary at all. It's all of it, all shades of it. It turns back true, end-to-end all right, wrap this one, no end-act actually.

Maybe that's our problem. We see it from a binary level. We see things and-or. There's, You see the black or white, and maybe it's not. Maybe it's, maybe it's a multitude of different alien species that decided they wanted a hamster wheel, earth, and they put us down here to entertain themselves. And they just kind of watch from far and they go, look what those idiots are up to. Look at a moron. He's on the, he's on the treadmill, just like the hamsters. What does work?

This is the best entertainment ever. Oh, look, they probably sit around and watch America's funniest home videos all the time and cops. and just be like, look at these morons. This is why we never make contact with them because they're idiots, but they're entertaining at least. It's like watching...

And I'm saying that that alien is that moron that they're pointing out. And I'm saying that that alien is the TV show that they're watching. It's not outside of them. It's just them dealing that thing. So the whole point of

creation where you're separate from something. That's not, it's not, that's just an illusion. You're just for one, the same thing being all the things that that thing can be, including not being, because that's a position, a logical position. So you can say by you, I say it's binary, it's non-binary, it's just terrific, whatever you want. It's more to be still that same thing. That's incredible. Yes. And people come up to me as an atheist, and they'll be like, what are you going to do if you die and it's just blackness and there's nothing after that?

and you're just dead and gone. And I'm like, I don't know. I won't know because I'll be dead and gone. I'm not going to be stoning through the universe going, I'm in eternal limbo because nothing came after life. And I'm just floating here as the spirit's going, fuck. Here I joined all the religions thinking they were the right one.

Yeah. So you ask them, okay, so what if you ask blackness? So what? Where was I going to do? I don't know. It's not like I got options. It's not like maybe if I swim, a little, I can get to a 7-Eleven on Mars or something.

So, you know, to me, one of the big things that religion puts a band-aid on very badly is the fear of death and the fear of what happens and the fear of why we're here. And we're snakes aren't sitting around going, I wonder why I'm here and I don't know, why I'm eating these mice and shit. They're not going, I'm going to eat this mice for the, for the snake got in the sky. right i don't think they're sitting around but it's always interesting jesus somehow has has not only a name and a face in white religious culture that shows that he's a white man yet if you go to the middle east it's it's pretty impossible fine probably back in those days right especially with the

name and everything else jesus probably running around saying all akbar or something back down for all we know i'm going to get my thing flagged on youtube anyway so yeah i'm with you here Now, what are some of the failures of religion? You talk about how religion has not dealt very well with homelessness, sexism, ecology issues that they fail to address. Tell us what your issue is with that about that. Okay, so first issue is that they want us to believe that that is the thing. If you can't believe in that theology, then you know where you're lost. that I was actually going to mention a little bit of what you said about the fear of death.

Mankind has even a greater fear, the fear of sin, of being called a sinner. Okay, so they began from fear of death once we saw that we could die, then we tried to find the reason why are we dying? Because we've sinned against our creator. Oh, so that's where it starts. But again, if you look at science, if you just look at your whole experience, you don't have to be a scientist.

Everything goes through a process. They go through a process. Even the stars, our son will die someday, right? Yeah. Given long enough. Even black holes that we don't understand enough of. You say given trillions of years, maybe infinity, they'll evaporate.

So everything, in essence, dies. to use that as a reason to build a God system, a theological system, and then say, okay, we did this. This is happening to us because we sinned. That is what I have against, if you call it, it against the whole construct. And then to make people believe that enough to, you know, of course, about the song, The Amazing Grace, right?

The first stanza of that says, Amazing Grace, how sweet. I'm reading now. How sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost, but now I'm found. I was blind, but now I see. That whole thing that you somehow, you're just not whole. You're sinful.

You're cast aside. And your God is holy, which means put up separate, it's a part. The whole thing that you were born in sin and you were conceived in sin, you base a whole theology like that. It tests us not how God is. You're just making your own rules and trying to force people to believe that. Because there's nothing that we can think of or that we can do or that we can make. That's not already part of the system that was provided by this thing.

And if you allow our cord, that it's whole thing that we try to describe the indescribable, let's call it God. Is there anything that we bring to the table? No. If you're thinking thoughts, you don't make thoughts. Thought items are already there. You just latch onto them.

If you do something, the only reason why that option is there, is that the option was there to start with. They're going to kill somebody. That's because somebody can be killed. You didn't make it. Okay, so whatever we're calling sin, it's just, it's not like that. Okay.

So you can't say because somebody's sin, what did they do? You are born? Why are you a sin? Are you born in sin? Is it because maybe you came from the inside of a human being and they're already seen? What's that all about? Yeah. Constructing a god shape of a deity theology based upon that.

What does that even mean? Yeah. That's the point I'm trying to make, and I take different areas to show, point out that, again, is the fear, fear of death, like you've talked about, and fear of the repercussions of sin and fear of the unknown, what happens after you die, all those sins compounded, and build this insecurity. Okay, we may be the brightest, maybe, but we're not the most vulnerable for anything. Okay, look how far we've come. So we've touched the sky, and we know there's no sky out there. We go to the moon, the torch the moon, gone into the same things that ordinarily couldn't see,

and the predecessors could not see. And yet, in spite of all that, we are still so vulnerable. If somebody, like, Putin decides to put out one nuclear bomb out there, everybody will respond and mutually assure destruction. So that's how vulnerable we are. It is these things that are driving us to construct gods like this, to create God in our own image and with our own little understanding, and then embellish that God and give it powers and use those powers against us, against our own selves. So we're spending more time

condemning ourselves, and then thinking, okay, I'm a wretch, and I've been saved by God. Now, I want to show you, if you look at, if you ever seen the, I'm sure you've seen a children's drawing of families. If you see children's rights, especially at the age when they're doing stick figures, right? When the child draws their family, they are in there, okay? They're also connected. They are holding hands. Even if it's one parent, they're holding hands. The whole family is holding hands.

But when the people that construct God by man, man that constructs God, man is not in that picture. If man is in that picture, it's in a supplicative movement. mood, kneeling down and maybe raising hands. They don't have, they're not touching God. They're not holding hands with God. Okay. It's because God is separate there. We're too sinful.

And we need a connection. We need a Jesus to take care of our sins so we can connect with God. That's what I'm pointing out. Now, yeah, it's interesting to me. The sin thing, to me, that's about behavioral control and manipulation. right? I convince you that, hey, if you have certain feelings about certain things or you want to do certain things, those are bad. And I make all the things you really enjoy, they're really pleasurable. I make those evil. And it's about control. So if I get you to Colton with me and believe that,

I'll give you an example, Mormonism makes, originally had coffee as a sin. You could be excommunicated from the church if you drank coffee. And those of us drink coffee are like, the hell, but it's not about the coffee, it's about the control. If I can get you to be ashamed and feel guilty about the way you behave as a normal human being, then I can start mind-brainhing you into my cult of religion or whatever the hell cult it is, Jones Town, you name it. And by using shame, guilt, and basically telling people, I'm sorry, you can't be part of this club until you absolve yourself of your little behaviors and you don't fit in. And part of that is just mind control.

It's manipulation. It's narcissistic. And if you notice most religions, I don't know about all religions, I have to study most of them. But most religions have some sort of pain, shame, control modalities to them, right? Yeah, yeah. And so, to me, that's what the sin thing is all. about. And then if I tell you, hey, you're a beautiful man who was born in this world and the sun was shining when you came out. It was a glorious day. And you had an epic experience with you

and your mother and father. And you're just this beautiful born baby and you're going to go forth and do great things. Now that's one way of telling you something. But if I tell you, oh God, you were born into sin. You are a sinner at birth. You are ugly, undeveloped, Nathanielthal, brutal human being that is that God is going to punish

if you don't get your shit together. And you're just a baby going, I don't feel like a sinner. I feel good right now. That's a whole different thing. And if I can get you to buy that second story that you're a horrible human being, the reason bad things happen to you in life

aren't just that that's how the universe works. It's not fair. Bad things happen to everybody. And there's no monster in the sky with a big puppet going, I'll fuck with these people. Then I can get you to buy into all sorts of other bullshit. But to me, that's what that sin really is when you're born. Because those two things are very different.

Are you a beautiful human being? I've had that told to me, you were born a sinner. And I'm like, I don't feel like a sinner right now. I feel pretty good. I have some tacos. Yeah, Chris, let me add to what you're saying. I really agree. Okay, and if you allow me, I'll read something. This first dated July 27, the 2026, I'll make that a little personal. It just brings up the point that you're making it. I'm making. Says here, mom and dad, I do not have the words to express how lucky I am and how thankful I feel to have you two as my parents.

Everything that I am and have been able to accomplish is in huge part because of your ever-present love and support. I could not have done this without you. How lucky I am I to have parents that laid the groundwork for me to achieve such success, but also that treat me with such tenderness and kindness that the accomplishment feels quite small in comparison to my fortune in being your adult. daughter. I love you tremendously. You have always meant the world to me. And having you there from the beginning to the end of this journey will remain one of my most treasured memories. Okay. So that's the whole thing. Why don't we create a God? Like, why don't we think of God like that? Instead of saying, oh, you're a sinner. I'm going to do this. And we're going to, that's part of

this thing that's a dichotomy. There are two things that nuanced, but it's still. there. So it's not even known as we've talked about amazing grace why you talked about saving a wretch. Yeah. So, yes, the religions are not, they're not talking about this love, okay? Yeah. They will be the first to talk about conditional love. How would it be conditional love if you have to be saved, if you have to be redeemed, and if you have to go through rights and rituals to get there? Yeah. It does make sense. Yeah. In our religion, you have to stand. in your head and then you have to pat your head and rub your belly. Yeah.

At the same time, while you sing the National Anthem. You know, a lot of the rituals of religion and cults are the same, and they're all for brainwashing. With the Catholics, they repeat the rosary thing over and over and over again, right? The same thing with the folks in the Arab community with Muhammad and that book. They have to stop everything they're doing. Was it seven times a day, I think? Then they have to kneel and pray.

But they don't only have to do that. They have to face a certain direction towards some building. And like, why you're doing all that, you have your rifle lying right by his side. Okay? Yeah. Yeah. I guess God doesn't look out for you when you're praying.

So you've got to have your rifle there just in case. So you've got to start firing because God isn't, for some reason, God is at least praying. so what we're going to cast a little spell that no one gets killed while they're praying, right? Instead, evidently you need a gun for probably obvious reasons. But yeah, you look through the rituals of the church and think. Do you speak in the book because there's one thing about religion that people like,

and this is something I studied as writing books as a leader and leadership. People love leaders because they don't want to think. They want to follow. They want somebody else to do any other decisions. they want somebody else to make the rules. They want somebody else to tell them how it's all working because most times humans are lazy. I know this is a surprise to some people.

I get it. I get it. And so they come up with these extensive processes, but this is also part of the brainwashing. If I'm doing that same thing every day, jumping through your hoops, I'm on your hamster wheel. And I've got to give you my money.

And if I don't give you my money, then bad things are going to happen. And yeah, it's just, it's quite interesting how it works. And even a lot of religious stuff, a lot of them are pagan rituals, too. That's the other thing. That's why they come from, yes? Yeah, if you study paganism, like Halloween and all sorts of different Christian holidays, they're rooted in paganism. And pagans didn't believe in a God.

What are you fucking doing there? Yeah. So, yeah, I agree. I agree with that. What I'm also present is that all that is fine. It can be brainwashed if you want to. Sure. You can look out to yourself.

You can look at things. But the way the system works, I see it, is that everything that is possible will be, even things that are not possible. It does not mean, it does not detract from the wholeness, the godness of everything. So it's being everything. And yes, the God that I see I think of is. doing all these things. It's not just us doing it

and I didn't know. It's just what God is doing. Okay? God through us and being God I'm just comfortable with that. It's not vulnerable to anything. And it feels vulnerable because that feeling is there is just one more thing that it can be

and all by itself. To be feeling vulnerable because we did not humanity did not invent vulnerability. So if it does vulnerability, it was always there and it's going to be part of this God manifesting in that way.

It's an interesting thing. I've studied this all my life and all that. So what problems did you want to write the book on this and talk to everyone about it? I have always been thinking about it. I lost my mother when I was really, really young, and my parents were the kindest people that you know. And I came to ask, why does this thing happen to nice people? Why do bad things happen to nice people? I think there are books like that, right? So that's certainly starting thinking that it's just things that happen.

It doesn't, you know, this is not a reward system, is that if you are only good things will happen to you or if you are bad, only bad things who happen to you. Yeah. So they're thinking some more about it. That's how this all started. Yeah. it's really hard for people to understand that maybe

just random things happen in the universe someone gets run over on the roadside it's it's not it's not some evil manipulator in the sky with a puppet master thing and and he's just oh let's kill somebody today and you know maybe some things just happen because they're random the timing is wrong the timing is off you're in the wrong place at the wrong time and those two beings converge and someone doesn't make some good decisions. I remember cops when high school used to tell me there's no such thing as an accident

when they would come to talk to us about stuff. There's no such thing as an accident. Someone made, or usually it's a combination sometimes of different decisions and maybe two people make the same bad decision at the same time and turn into each other. But sometimes things just happen. And this is the way it is. But, but, and we suffer through that and we go, oh, God, why did Bob die? I had a friend, he went for, he used to go for a walk just a little bit outside of his town from downtown,

and he would go up to some hills and walk. He did that for 20 years or something. And one day, he stepped out from behind a bus and a driver wasn't paying attention on his phone or something like that and ran him down. He'd walked that path for 20 years. and just one day he gets run down. Now, was that the arc of some sadistic, evil, jealous God who maybe was unhappy because, I don't know, he read the Torah yesterday and he doesn't like that or something? I don't know. I'm just making up stuff.

Or was it just chance? And maybe it's easier to accept, and probably cheaper because you're not giving away all your money, that's just random chance. That's how the universe works. Stars collide into each other. Black holes open. It's a vibrant, fluid universe, and it's a giant survival game. You can be the greatest person on Earth, and when do you come down with cancer? And yet you can be the most evil person on this Earth, and you can live forever, and the shit you do will impact centuries.

And maybe there's no real hand behind it other than just human nature isn't all that great, really, when it comes down to it. Yeah, I make a good point. I'm a physician, so I see a lot of that. and being a human being achieved, the other thing. And the point, again, I stress that it is not so much chance, or you can call it a chance, but that chance is the whole system, working as a whole system, and manifesting that chance or whatever we call it. Personal in that sense, and yet personified and personalized,

all at once can be personal, personal, and everything in between. I think that's really the type of system or type of concepts that we're dealing with. If we have plate tectonics on this planet, a place to open up and have a volcano somewhere, and a whole bunch of people die, and there's earthquakes and through that and tsunamis and all that. It's not because of anything that we've seen or we're in the right now. That's just part of what's going on.

Yeah. And the author or whoever is going to doing this is not separate on the side and watching us up. That's just what they are glad thing is going through. I call it. That's the extra part that I'm adding to that. So what do you hope people come away with when they read your book? Okay.

What I hope that people come away with is, first of all, don't go with the religious teachings that you are a sinner. And I'll give them good to look at those stick figures by children. You see, they draw themselves into the picture. They are part of this thing. So if you have a God there, hopefully you'll know that you're part. part of this God and this God is part of you. And then this God loves you so much.

And you're not going to be there just asking on your knees, begging for this or for that. Okay. Yeah. Okay. If anybody's leading in that direction, because that's how they've always believed. That's not correct. And there's a lot of hypocrisy on that. And then think that, okay, so you're part of this whole universe or whatever existence that is larger than you are yet.

it is manifesting all of it through you in so many ways. And so you're really connected. You're not out there's an island unto yourself. And if you're going to find God, that's how you find that God. Everything that you feel is God actually feeling the things that and there's no separation. It's just that one thing, just doing this thing. And if there's death, is that God dying, if there are so-called saints, is that God sinning? and their charity is still the same one, and it's you.

You're part of that, just like kids throw themselves into that picture, where their family becomes their God, everybody holds hands. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. So let's get a plug-in for your other books. I think you have some other books that you want to plug or something like that? Yes, I just want to talk, because there are seven books during that period of 10 years, 20 to 30 years ago and it's re-published God by

Man, that's the first one. There's also Stearns and there's reflections on the second coming. And some other books are coming through, but I didn't want to mention the noun to actually republish them so that the titles

can be, but those three, at least be struck with God by Man because it just talks about the things we've talked about, so at least there will be a different concept or something to think about and that's not all that the religions are regardless of what part of your world or that they're teaching you and telling you that it could be different and what's driving on what you're here and it's a sense of sin and death and punishment and then if they have them there's

a salvation theology to to rescue you no you don't need rescue the universe made you as you are you don't need rescue to go anywhere else if that universe is manifesting as you and it's you. There's no separation as such. What a wonderful message to people because it's really important. You see the horrors that have gone on in the name of religion. We have a lot of people who come on the show and talk about how if people would just go back to religion, the world would improve. I'm like, no, we've had religion for 2,000 years plus or whatever, and it's got us here. I don't think we need another religion. I think we need more science. Because it just, religion really panders to the worst of human nature.

And even the giving people to get out of jail free card where they can commit the most heinous of sins, and they just got to say, I believe in Jesus and they're free, thank God our courts don't operate that way. But if we turn it to talk, theocracy, I guess they will. But it's, it's, I'm more afraid of the guy who thinks that he gets a free get out of jail, care, don't go to hell. by killing people and then and then repenting, how can the pedophile repent and get into heaven? How is that possible? How can the murderer repent? You did something that's pretty permanent on the record. If I steal a candy bar, I'm going to hurt the retailer. They're going to lose a couple bucks. But if you take someone's life, if you take someone's innocence, that's a parable.

It's something that if they live, they're going to carry for us to life. They're dead. you've taken away a whole lifetime experiences and not only stole them from other people, but somehow if you say Jesus Christ, I believe in you, all is forgiven. And that just seems beyond heinous to me of a system. It just really does. It makes no sense. Yeah, the logic of it doesn't make any sense. I agree with that.

Yeah. Yeah, it's just, and then you see people, anyway, as an atheist, I swear to God, we read the, I was talking to a religious Catholic friend of mine the other day, and he goes, yeah, most the religious people I know, or most of the atheists I know, know the Bible better than most people who belong to the religion. How about that? I'm like, I'll see religious people say shit. I'm like, have you read the Bible? Because I have, and I'm an atheist.

That's not in there, or you're not supposed to be doing according to the Bible what you're supposed to be doing. So you ever read it either. But, you know, they just have this attitude. Like, I'll just get jail free. I'll just go give some money to the priest and confess myself. sins and then I can go do it again next week. You know, like, that's not really, no. And so it panders to the worst

of human nature. And I think I think that's one of the benefits people like about it, because they can do evil and they can paint themselves white with it and be like, oh, they can have this get out of jail free card and no self-accountability. Oh, the devil

made me do it. Oh, you didn't kill that person? No, the devil made me do it. So it wasn't me. It was the devil. It gives people this this accountability out. And that's the worst thing for human people. If you study our society, what's going on right now, it's just victimhood Olympics all the time. Oh, the devil made me do it whenever it was me. Anyway, is there any offerings on your website? Any of stuff that you sell, consulting, coaching, any of those things we want to talk about? No, I have a lot of concepts on the

website, Onenest.com. You won't find the books advertised there because I want to keep put things separate the commercialism of books and supposed to just concepts, pure concepts that have nothing to do with commercialization. And the books are there. If people want them, they can get them. It's not nobody's pushing any particular thing. It's just that at the end of the day, we're all seeking the truth, we're searching for the truth. And if you want to do it a scientific way, fine. If you want to do it a different way, fine. But at least keep searching and just say everything is done and therefore everything is fine. And whatever stage you're in, try to encourage people to search more,

rather than try to impose it on other people. Yeah. That's the other thing that I hate about religion. It's not secure in and of itself. It always has to be forced on everybody. Everybody has to comply with this interest. They can't just leave alone. Like me as an atheist, I don't care what you believe in.

I realize life is hard. People have to believe in something to get through it. it's an ugly, I don't want to say evil, it's an ugly process. And it's not pleasant. You're fighting for your life every day. You don't know what's coming next. And so it's not always the finest experience in the world, I guess what I'm trying to say.

But that doesn't mean that there's some sort of agenda behind it. I think, like you say in your surmised, an essay, that we believe that because we do certain things, God would behave the same way. and for me anybody who would be brilliant enough to create the mathematics, the physics, and the science of this world, no, he said to talk to me. That guy is beyond any sort of the pettiness or should be on any sort of the pettiness. Is he really listening to every swear word I say? Oh, Chris said Jesus Christ today.

Ah, that's number five trillion, six thousand, five hundred and one of his lifetime experience. I it's going to have trouble getting out of the hell thing. The stuff that I used always love. What's the old Carlin bit? He loves you and he appreciates you and you're this special little being. But if you don't know somebody say, you're going to fucking hell. And you're just like, what kind of parental love is this? You know?

What the hell? It's how many parents, if they're raising me, they'd be like, we love you. You're a wonderful son. But just remember, if you ever fuck up, we're going to go burn you the steak and sacrifice you, whatever. And you're just like, listen. It's quite the gun to my head. He's got to put a gun to have people's head and say, unless the morale approves where somebody's going to get shot,

and you're just like, well, thanks. Anyway, all right, enough of my bits on religion, and we'll have Christopher Hitchens on this next week. We'll have a seance to bring him back from the dead. Anyway, he can tell us what's like on the other side. So give us your final pitch out for people to pick your book and where they can find it, etc., etc., dot coms. Give people a final pitch out to order your book, sir.

Okay. Take a look at this book. It's going to point out some things to you. The idea is that you think again, check out what you're believing, check out what they're trying to cushion you, and understand that what you are, you are, and that because this thing is, you're not created. You are being, somebody being something, being something,

asks you and you are an integral part of that. You are not a sinner and your life does not revolve around sinning or dying. Okay. Through what people are pushing on you, what religions are pushing on you. Yeah. I mean, a lot of things about religion too. It's a mob mentality just like any cult. It's a mob mentality of a group think.

and so people just don't think for themselves and go maybe this isn't true or whatever and if they do but also it's a club so people love communities they love societal things and so a lot of people do it some people do it as a moral superiority thing and I think most people don't realize that most of this is about superiority complex so it's about me saying sir my religion is the true religion and therefore I am morally higher and better than you because you believe in something different. And that's really what a lot of religion is. It's a way to, people do the same thing. I don't know.

I bought a membership to the country club, right? Oh, I'm better than those people who can't afford this. And I'm in the exclusive club. It's the same mentality, no matter what cold group club thing you gave. You believe that maybe you're better than other people who aren't in. in the club. And does that mean it's true? Probably not. It just gives some people look down the nose at other people at. You know what I mean? Because I've had that. Oh, Chris, do you belong to this religion? No. Oh, tis, tis. Oh, I'll pray for you. You're like, why? Oh, because you're a

heathen going to hell living. And you're just like, I don't know, someone who talks like that person telling me that I'm going to go to hell, they seem like the evil ones, if you really think about it. You really think about it, right? You can tell them, like my case, we say, my friends are going there. I'm better off with my friends. If I meet you and you tell me you believe in your religion or whatever, I'm like, hey, that's cool, man. I'm glad you found some you enjoy and good luck with that. Not for me, but hey, it's a long life and you've got to get through. You've got a whole lot of something. You've got to believe in some stuff. Hey, as long as you're not hurting anybody else, believe what you want. I believe what I believe.

you can believe what you want and it will all be fine but it's when it's when i got to get up in your face and be like you got to believe what i believe or else you're going to hell and i'm i might have to punch you in the face and you're just like what and they're telling you that you're the evil one i'm like i think you're the evil one because you got all this oppression and shit that you're trying to force me or guilt me or shame me into buying it in your bullshit so anyway all right as you can tell i could probably talk for 10 000 hours about this we We allow a lot of religious people on the show too as well to present their formats, and we try to be as respectful as we can of those, but it is what it is.

Yeah. Anyway, give people your dot com on this time as we go out, sir. Onenest.com. People can check it all out there. Thank you very much, sir, for being on the show. We really appreciate it. Fun and wonderful discussion. Thank you, Chris.

Thank you. Thanks, sir, honest, for tuning in. Order up his book, wherever fine books are sold. God. My man. I love it. It's wonderful. It's interesting how everything is, you can see the fingerprints of man all over everything in religion. And you're just like, if there really was a God, he probably would have appeared by now and said, look, I'm tired of your crap down here with humans. Here I am, see me. Okay, you want to touch me here? Grab a hand. Hey, hey, hey, hey, it's not, it's not. Don't you just touch me. You guys are filthy human beings. You guys are a horrible ant farm and cockroaches. But I'm here. Okay. So stop. bargaining about how I'm not here. It's been like 3,000 years. I know I was wandering over in Venus

and doing some shit over there. I had I had to pay some debts or something to my bokey. But now I'm back and here I am and can you just stop the whole argument about whether I exist or not? But what kind of asshole omnipotent being would be sitting around going, I'm never

going to show him who I am, I'm just going to fuck with them. That's some benevolent bullshit, right? And you just think about here's a guy who superior mass, superior physics, created all of this shit. We're assuming the creation, of course, as you mentioned.

And somehow he behaves like the most petty trailer park, white trash individual known to man, right? You're just like this seems really out of the leagues if you really think about what. And what happens after death? I don't know. All I know

is, is be good to your neighbor because follow the golden rule. Don't killing is a good thing. especially since there's a law on it, no steal. Don't cover your wife's, your neighbor's wife. These are all good things to do to keep a healthy society from not devolving into everyone killing each other because everyone slept with each other's a wife.

And yeah, they're good little tombs. Are they the tombs of some omnipotent being that all knowing, all seeing, but somehow he's always broke? Anyway, all right, let's get in. Let's move on down the road. Thank you very much for appearing on the show. Thanks for my eyes for tuning and go to Goodread.com, Fortress, Chris Voss. LinkedIn.com, Fortress, Chris Voss.

YouTube.com, Fortess, Chris Foss, and all those crazy places in it. Be good at each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time. You've been listening to the most amazing, intelligent podcast ever made to improve your brain and your life. Warning. Consuming too much of the Chris Walsh Show podcast can lead to people thinking you're smarter, younger, and irresistible sexy. Consume in regularly moderated amounts. Consult a doctor for any resulting brain bleed. Thank you.