The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Good Neighbors: A Novel by Sarah Langan

Episode Date: March 22, 2021

Good Neighbors: A Novel by Sarah Langan Named by Goodreads as One of the Most Anticipated Mysteries and Thrillers of 2021 “A modern-day Crucible….Beneath the surface of a suburban utopia, madness lurks.” —Liv Constantine, bestselling author of The Last Mrs. Parrish “A sinkhole opens on Maple Street, and gossip turns the suburban utopia toxic. A taut teachable moment about neighbors turning on neighbors.” —People “One of the creepiest, most unnerving deconstructions of American suburbia I've ever read. Langan cuts to the heart of upper middle class lives like a skilled surgeon.” —NPR ​Celeste Ng’s enthralling dissection of suburbia meets Shirley Jackson’s creeping dread in this propulsive literary noir, when a sudden tragedy exposes the depths of deception and damage in a Long Island suburb—pitting neighbor against neighbor and putting one family in terrible danger. Welcome to Maple Street, a picture-perfect slice of suburban Long Island, its residents bound by their children, their work, and their illusion of safety in a rapidly changing world. But menace skulks beneath the surface of this exclusive enclave, making its residents prone to outrage. When the Wilde family moves in, they trigger their neighbors’ worst fears. Dad Arlo’s a gruff has-been rock star with track marks. Mom Gertie’s got a thick Brooklyn accent, with high heels and tube tops to match. Their weird kids cuss like sailors. They don’t fit with the way Maple Street sees itself. Though Maple Street’s Queen Bee, Rhea Schroeder—a lonely college professor repressing a dark past—welcomed Gertie and her family at first, relations went south during one spritzer-fueled summer evening, when the new best friends shared too much, too soon. By the time the story opens, the Wildes are outcasts. As tensions mount, a sinkhole opens in a nearby park, and Rhea’s daughter Shelly falls inside. The search for Shelly brings a shocking accusation against the Wildes. Suddenly, it is one mom’s word against the other’s in a court of public opinion that can end only in blood. A riveting and ruthless portrayal of American suburbia, Good Neighbors excavates the perils and betrayals of motherhood and friendships and the dangerous clash between social hierarchy, childhood trauma, and fear.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. Chris Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com, thechrisvossshow.com. Hey, we're coming to you with another great podcast.

We certainly appreciate you guys tuning in. Be sure to give us a like, subscribe to us on YouTube, hit that bell notification so you can see all the wonderful books, reviews, interviews that we're doing on The Chris Voss Show. You can get all the different groups on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, all that sort of good stuff. You can find me and The Chris Voss Show everywhere as well. Today we have a most excellent book author.

She's a novelist, and she's written quite a few books. We'll get into it here in a second. But she's got a new book out called Good Neighbors, Sarah Langen. And Sarah's got her book out, I think it came out in February. She is an award-winning novelist and screenwriter. Her most recent novel, the one we just mentioned good neighbors was a b and n book of the month selection an amazon reader's choice a apple must listen and got raves from ew people newsweek aarp and the ala and according to Gabino Iglesias at NPR,

it's one of the most creepiest nerving deconstructions of American suburbia I've ever read. So we just either scared everyone off or we really lit up some people that are like, I like this type of book. There you go. Her novella

You Have the Prettiest Mask is out now from the LCRW via Small Beer Press. And her short story, Night Nurse, is also now out in Best Horror of the Year, Volume 12. She's won three Bram Stoker Awards. And her previous novels are The Keeper, The Missing, and Audrey's Door. She has an MFA from the Columbia University, unlike mine, from MF from the streets. And MS in Environmental Toxicity from NYU. She's a founding board member of the Shirley Jackson Award and lives in Los Angeles with her husband and the writer-director J.T. Petty, their two daughters, and a manic rabbit.

She's delighted to be here. Sarah, are you sure? Are you delighted to be here? I am. I am. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming. Congratulations on your book.

I like how the bio says, she's delighted to be here. That's really funny. Well funny it's always true right yeah what's really wild is a bit of a sidebar here you sent me your bio and there's a PR picture here where you're wearing a shirt that says they live we sleep well can I ask what that's about

because I'm standing on the back of my head that's the John Carpenter movie they live right are you a carpenter fan yeah i'm a huge carpenter fan i love his stuff yeah yeah i went to one of his concerts like he's crazy he's amazing there you go there you go so you've written this book and published it out and all that good stuff. Give us your plugs for people who can find you on the interwebs and learn more about you and order the book as well. That would be great.

My website is www.sarahlangen.com. S-A-R-A-H-L-A-N-G-A-N. I'm on Facebook. I'm on Twitter. And I'm on Instagram. Nice. And you've got a lot of great exciting reviews that have come up. It was named by Goodreads as one of the most anticipated mysteries and thrillers of 2021. Tell us what motivated you to write this book. How many total books have you written? I've written five, published four.

There you go. There you go. So is the fifth one that's going to be coming in the future? No, but happily, I just signed a deal for my sixth book through Simon & Schuster. There you go. Congratulations. I'm super excited about it. It happened last week. That's awesome.

Congratulations. Thank you. So tell us the arcing overview, or I think maybe I need to go back. What motivated you want to write this book then? So I started a long time ago. I was writing straight horror at the timeetus for the fighting that happens between the neighbors on this cul-de-sac on and it was based on the monsters of maple street that twilight zone episode the monsters they do on maple street and I couldn't make it work so I put it aside

and then the last four years I went back to it because I'd written another book that didn't sell and I was like maybe I need to change things up and figure something out so I went back to it because I'd written another book that didn't sell. And I was like, maybe I need to change things up and figure something out. So I went back to it and I realized that the problem was the monster. And I was trying to tell a very human story. And so once I removed the monster and looked at people and the way that they act, that was the story. And it's not cynical. My worldview isn't that people are bad. It's that we can plug into each other in catastrophic ways in which we lose all rational sense. And I think that's really what's happened to us the last four years. Longer. It's been building for a long time. So that was the impetus. That was what I was thinking about and the kind of story I was trying to tell. But then it's also about the way that suburbia works and the way that moms have these identities forced onto them that they find pretty lonely. And as a mom myself,

I was surprised by it because 10 years ago or 11 years ago, I was on book tours and doing different things. And then when I had kids, suddenly everyone was like, you're not allowed to be that anymore. You have to be this and you have to be good at it, even if you don't know how. And so it's terrible. You're like, oh my God, this is so much pressure. So it's about that too. And it it's about there's this one male character in the story who has i think for a man the worst thing happened to him which is he's falsely accused of abuse of abusing a child so it's a lot of those sort of and i think that's a thing that would make any neighborhood go wild is thinking that there's a man on the block who does things to children.

So they go crazy in ways that I think really reflect what's been happening in our culture, be on Facebook or be it in protests. I think this is a great premise for the book because when I was growing up, we had neighborhoods like that. There was always the neighborhood that would whisper about, there's the one divorced lady on the street. Of course, now it's flipped and there's just the one married person on the street. But there was all the whispering, gossiping and all that sort of stuff. Your mom would always be like, there's the one neighbor and the one neighbor is, I don't know, whatever. That's one neighbor you never hit up for sugar, at least back in those days. I think we were the weird family.

Were you? Yeah, I think so. I think we were okay because people would ask us for sugar and salt every now and then. It was weird. Nobody does that anymore. They never knock on your door and they go, hey, man, could I get a cup of salt from you? It's funny. Yeah, yeah.

I do it once in a while in my neighborhood, but I'm probably, yeah. Yeah. But I think I, I remember growing up in the burbs and I remember everyone kind of knew what everyone else was doing and what everyone's job was and how much their parents made and where they were, what their, the kids grades were and what their reputations were. And it's all such still silly, narcissistic things to care about. So that's interesting. Wasn't there a movie called The Burbs or something? It's where it's with Tom Hanks and there's the creepy people that move in to the neighborhood. I vaguely remember that, but I didn't see it. Who's the monster in this story?

It's a couple of factors coming together. But I have one character who is so injured and carrying so many different identities that she can't parse that she's gone insane. She's gone a little out of her mind. And she's the one who has the most perfect mask and is trying to make everyone think she's the most ideal human. And she's the one who instigates and helps spread this rumor. And she's the one who is doing the most harm within her own home, which I think is pretty accurate for how people act. Those are exactly the kinds of people who want to throw attention away from what they're doing by accusing other people or taking leadership roles.

So I studied narcissism pretty deeply because she's a classic narcissist. And it's a really interesting psychological state, narcissism. I think we're all forced to study millennium narcissism last four or five years too. Yeah. Yeah. Keep the professionals in it, but yeah, you're right. Human nature has a very ugly way in that facility where people look at sometimes the people that are trying the hardest to be put off, to put off the perfect image, especially at the local, the soccer mom sort of thing. And what's the competition of the, just the, all that local mom stuff.

And there's a competitive nature to it. That's sometimes quite evil where everyone's got to keep up with the Joneses, if you will. Yeah. Yeah. I'm always surprised, but it's, it always shocks me because I just don't think I'm wired to notice what other people are doing. So when people do, they're like, have you seen this on this neighborhood? Did you see this guy? He walks around the block too many times. And I'm like, I have no idea what you're talking about.

But it's a common thing. And I think it's the deeper the wound, the more they're trying to distract themselves from it. And the more I tend to have sympathy for those people, the more I learned trying to distract themselves from it. And the more I tend to have sympathy for those people, the more I learned about narcissism and attachment disorders, the more sympathetic I got to these people, because there is almost always some voice inside their head screaming, they're not good enough. And they're just like dancing, like hysterical puppets trying to get away from that. And sure, they're going to be illogical because this voice is screaming. And if you trigger them in any way, that's what's happening. It's not that they're looking at you

and fighting with you. This book is so much about how people fight with ghosts. Is there a bit of good intention that paves the way to hell with some of the other neighbors? Yeah, I think there is. I think what happens is the sinkhole forms, because it's also a climate fiction book, and half the neighbors leave because it's not safe to stay. So the people who do stay aren't making great decisions to begin with. And they feel very sorry for the problematic character because her daughter's gone missing down a sinkhole. So there's, there's sympathy is with her. And then she harnesses that sympathy and says, but I think it was this family, this newcomer family that doesn't fit in and seems strange.

And the dad's got tattoos and smoke cigarettes in public. And the mom's this ex beauty queen who wears really tight clothes and they're from God. They have Brooklyn accents. It's horrible. Oh, clearly. Yeah.

It's always those Brooklyn accents and the tattoos. So is there just one sinkhole? Does the sinkhole end up being like a metaphor in the story or some sort of implication? Yeah. Yeah. So the sinkhole, there's just one, but it's very much, it's set just a few years into the future. But I have a degree in environmental toxicology. So I studied global warming and I studied thermodynamics and things are happening at an accelerated rate. So even though it's just 2027, it's near future, more sinkholes will form. That's just part of global warming.

Increased temperatures mean increased erosion. But it was a symbol for more everything. There's just more strain on people because how are you supposed to keep your job and keep going to your job when there's a fire and you have to take your family away for a month or you don't? There's just we're going to have more immigration because there are people literally starving. We're going to have more shortages and crop failures. This is just how it's going to be. So this suburb has much more pressure on it. And I was trying to illustrate that with the sinkhole and with their behaviors, because they know that the future isn't better than the past

and they're very worried for their children and the sinkhole is literally eating their children wow that's got to be wild and is it getting bigger or is it just staying the same and and so it's so they're they have this thing coming down upon them much like a horror stalking thing stalking you and they're trying to they're dealing with all this human nature stuff but then they have They have this thing coming down upon them, much like a horse stalking, thing stalking you. And they're trying to, they're dealing with all this human nature stuff. But then they have an environment that's, we're coming for you slowly, but surely. They pick a scapegoat, which is, I think, what we do. As we look at the country and what we're doing right now, we could be fixing these problems.

But we're doing a lot of shouting at each other. So it's a little bit about that, too. And so when the girl falls down the sinkhole, the rescue teams and the excavation crew has to come and they have to make it much bigger as they look for her. And then the sinkhole is full of bitumen, like tar sand, which is sticky and black, and they track it all over the neighborhood. So this entire park is just full of this tar sand and shoe prints that get into people's houses and things as the novel progresses. And is it,

does it have an effect on how much more toxic they become correlated? No, I don't talk about toxicity at all, but they're afraid it is just as we're unclear on much of what we're being exposed to right now. That and what the future holds, yeah. It's pretty interesting. Have all your books been about horror? I should ask for our audience.

No. So this third book is not horror. This fourth book, Good Neighbors, is definitely not horror. There's nothing supernatural. And as you read it, you're not frightened. You're just rooting for these people and annoyed and then pissed off at the people who are making it hard for them. So it's very much just a human thriller. The previous novels were definitely horror.

They had monsters in them or ghosts or something like that. And then my other stuff has been science fiction. It's been fantasy. It's been horror. It's been mainstream literature. So what made you, this is more, I guess I'm looking at the thing, I was reading a bunch of the different reviews and best mystery thriller and suspense editors pick in fact with Amazon. What made you decide to maybe do less horror and go with the thriller and suspense?

It was more about the story I wanted to tell and the most effective way to do it. And I think this is the most effective way because if I had a monster come in, it would have really abnegated responsibility that the characters had for their own actions. Because once you throw a monster in there, things become less believable. It's more fun in some ways, but it's less realistic and believable. And I think what I really wanted to show was that these characters, nothing was forcing them to make the decisions that they make. Sometimes the biggest monsters are human nature and ourselves. I've often said people are like, we need world peace. I'm like, if you want world peace,

call the humans because we're the problem. The are due on maple street it's this twilight zone episode that i was really thinking about a lot where power goes out on maple street which is this suburban block and everyone comes outside and it's 1950s mccarthyism is what he's addressing and the they don't understand what's happening and a young kid comes up and says, I read science fiction, and what this is, it's aliens coming, and they're ready to attack, and they've already been here. They've probably been here for years.

It's probably some couple on this block, and they're in disguise, and now they're going to take over, and everyone laughs the kid off, but as the night wears on, it gets more creepy for them as lights go on and lights go off and cars turn on and cars turn off. And they become a mob, this neighborhood. And they wind up shooting an innocent man because they're convinced aliens are among them.

And then they pan out and you get to the actual aliens who look just like regular people at the top of the hill who are like, this is how you kill humanity. You get them to turn on each other because this is every town has a Maple Street. And we go from one Maple Street to the next, to the next, to the next. And this is how it ends. And the aliens are just letting them kill each other. Yeah. They're like, we just turn off the lights. They will freak out. They'll kill each other. They'll lose their shit just by turning off the power. I think in the seventiess there were some major power outages that people started killing each other and going full purge at the same and i think all was over chipmunk half the country went down over chipmunk or

something or squirrel but no that's you made my hair on the back of my neck race with that thing i'm sitting here looking and i pulled it up as you mentioned it but yeah it's really interesting i think putin's doing the same thing with us here. We just seeded a little bit with some whatever. They'll turn against each other and we don't even have to bomb them. No, we'll fight over. We will fight over anything. Yeah, we're fighting over hysteria, bringing up problems that happened in our past.

We're fighting over Dr. Seuss books that no one buys yeah yeah let's spend days on this meanwhile no one's voted in a local election for 50 years pretty much yeah that's okay is that a thing yeah um how does it work i don't know for that yeah i was supposed to vote so yeah it's that's really interesting i'm gonna you've got me going now too on top of reading the book i've got to go watch the twilight zone thing because it's really interesting. You've got me going now, too. On top of reading the book, I've got to go watch the Twilight Zone thing. Because it's really interesting. There's probably a lot of different stories you can get from that Twilight Zone. In fact, is that Andy Griffith that I see there?

Yeah. The picture? There you go. I think it is. But he was also in Face in the Crowd, which is one of my favorite movies. It's amazing. I think it might be Andy Griffith's it might be andy griffith or it might be a guy who's a guy who looks like andy griffith doppelganger it looks like it might

be an extra guy but or it might be a doppelganger of andy griffith because this guy looks a little short but anyway what other aspects of the book haven't we talked about i think the i've been getting a little cerebral but i think the take home is it's a really, the reason it's getting these reviews is people can't put it down because it's also a bit of a soap opera page turner where it's like, what? This family from Brooklyn is having such a hard time. And then a daughter fell down a sinkhole. And what happened to her? And where's she going to go? And there's a lot of fun intrigue and stuff that's just pleasant to read.

And you just pleasant to read. And you just want to keep turning the pages because you're like, what happens next? I love those books. You just burn through and you're just like, oh my gosh, I got to find out. You've left me with so much. What techniques do you do to write books like this and write in such a way that makes people want to turn the pages? I study it. I look at things, books that I found, like I read Carrie twice while I was writing this because I was like, how do you do it? How did he make such a short page turner? Because I like a short book, which Good Neighbors is. And I think if you can get it succinct, if you can cut half of it, do it. Just make it as quick and fun as you can. And then I also, anything that I find that's remotely boring or explanatory or something I want to say that doesn't quite fit in the plot, I just cut. So you just cut kind of some of the extras and distractions and just go right for the kill?

You hope that everything you're trying to say is there already. You know, with the plot that I picked and the characters that I picked and what happens that ought to be enough. I don't, I shouldn't have to say anything more. There you go. Do you see this becoming a movie? It sounds like it might be a really interesting movie. I've written the pilot and there's a lot of movement and they're so, and pitching it with the people who are attached in a couple of months, which would be really exciting. I think what's interesting about this movie is there's a real self-identity here because I watched it growing up with my mom and the neighborhood ladies and everyone has that one neighbor that they're always watching.

What's that neighbor doing over there? There's always that going on in these suburban neighborhoods. There's always that one neighbor and what he's up to. If you're lucky, you have two. I had somebody down the block that my best friend when I was four told me was the haunted house so i would like run past it and hold my breath and i was 30 and i was still like that's the haunted house and a girl from high school wrote to me and was like do you still live in that house and i was like yeah and she and then she told me that she lived in the house and i pictured like an old witch. It's like, oh my God, you lived in that house.

And also, how did I not know that? When did you get the demons exercise from yourself? That reminds me, I was watching TikTok the other day and there's a guy on there who's, I believe a Catholic priest. He's a priest of some type and he exercises demons. So I guess on TikTok, he's making commentary of his experience of exorcisms. And it's pretty interesting. Yeah, I'm serious. I was flipping through TikTok one night trying to go to sleep, which is a bad idea.

Because you're just always like, one more TikTok, one more TikTok. And then 4 a.m. rolls around. You're just like, holy shit. And there is a guy on there who's, I think he's fairly new, but he's got quite a few videos. But he basically will take other people's videos and do a duet. They call it. And then sometimes he just talks about exorcisms. I think he's done like a hundred exorcisms.

And so I'll talk about demonic possession and all that stuff that happened to me as a child. Clearly impels you. Yeah. The nuns told us that was possible when I was growing up and I was so freaked out i would like look under the bed is it there isn't gonna get me it's like the the neighborhood thing if you're not the one watching the other neighbors on the street the person everyone's watching is you so if you can't find the monster trick in the mirror i don't know i don't know so this is pretty good riveting portrayal riveting a ruthless portrayal of american suburbia excavates the perils and betrayals of motherhood friendships and dangerous clash

between society or social hierarchy childhood trauma and fear is it something that men are also going to get into or is it is it more yeah no a lot of men like it's it's a guy's worst nightmare and it's so fun to read you know like it sounds like a bunch of husbands that are just like oh guys we want men and we want dads to do the job and we want them to be picking up the slack but in the we make it hard for them and i don't but it's they don't get included on the email list they're viewed with suspicion if they're hosting the playdates there's so much that they're they can't do just because they're men it's like they're viewed as having some kind of original sin

and i i know plenty of moms who won't have playdates with debts. They're like, oh, that's weird. I don't want to. So I think that's a really ridiculous position for a man to be in. And it's about that too. And listen, it's a page turner. So guys will like it. There you go. There you go. Well, this sounds like an exciting book. One of the most anticipated mysteries and thrillers of 2021 named by Goodreads. And we'll look forward to your other book that's coming out sarah anything you want to give us on the book and party i hope you enjoy it it's a good book there you go check it out she's written several so she knows what she's doing and i think it's pretty interesting i still have to go watch that twilight thing after this and then get

to the book so sarah thank you for spending some time with us on the show being with us and sharing your wonderful knowledge thank you thanks for having me with us on the show, being with us and sharing your wonderful knowledge. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Give us your plugs if you could one more time. SarahLangen.com. That's S-A-R-A-H-L-A-N-G-A-N.com. And then I'm also on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.

There you go, guys. Follow up with her. I think you're going to end up writing a lot of books at the pace you're going. You should be pretty good there. I hope. I love writing. As long as they let me. There you me there you go so guys be sure to check it out go to amazon.com or your local bookseller support those folks they need all the help they can get with the coronavirus good neighbors a novel and you can pick that baby up go to youtube.com to see the

video version of this interview you can also go to Goodreads.com forward slash Chris Voss. See us on all our groups on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and all that good stuff, Twitter, et cetera, et cetera. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Wear your mask and stay safe, and we'll see you next time.