The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Grand Theft AI by James Cox

Episode Date: June 9, 2024

Grand Theft AI by James Cox https://amzn.to/3XfFgbL “The Matrix meets Blade Runner.” --Nicholas Sansbury Smith, New York Times bestselling author of Hell Divers San Francisco, 2051. Rising like neo-Shanghai over the Bay, a labyrinth of quantum accelerators, hologram dreams, and fiercely regulated androids. Forget powder, pills, or bud--kids get high slotting wafers of data under the ear, and they'll pay fat ¢rypto for the best. At the hottest nightclub in the city ... the Fang. Baz Covane is a battle-scarred thief who sticks to small-time bots. Ria Rose is the underworld "fixer" with a big-time score that could easily get 'em both killed. 'Cuz the Fang's psychotic kingpin Otto Rex has a vault with more security than a fusion reactor. And the glass inside is priceless--enough to set up Baz, Ria, and their crack team of cyber-misfits on the white sands of Tahiti forever. But this crime doesn't just carry infinite VR-Prison time--it's Baz and Ria's last shot at redemption. Forced to confess every last secret on their neurals, they'll have to trust each other completely if they stand any chance of infiltrating Otto's lair, raiding its spiraling rings of physical and virtual firewalls, to finally hack into his mind and crack his deepest layer of security, before the Blackhawks touch down with federal warrants--for Grand Theft AI.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. This is Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com.

There you go, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the big show. We certainly appreciate you guys coming by. Thanks for being here. As always, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the big show. We certainly appreciate you guys coming by. Thanks for being here. As always, we appreciate you. Remember, the Chris Vaughn Show is a family that loves you but doesn't judge you, at least not as harshly as your mother-in-law, because she never liked you anyway.

She wanted your wife to marry Bob, because Bob went on to that spectacular career of stockbroking and stockbrokering and owning things. And you're just still, I don't know, sitting around the house eating Cheetos on your beanbag chair naked. But anyway, guys, for further information on your family, friends, and relatives, go to goodreads.com, 4chesschrisvoss, linkedin.com, 4chesschrisvoss, youtube.com, 4chesschrisvoss, all those crazy places on the internet. Tim, an amazing young man on the show with us today with his exciting new book

that's going to be hot off the presses come, I believe it's July 23rd, 2024. What is that? Is that 7-23-24? I don't know. There's some math there somewhere in the code, I think. But the book is entitled Grand Theft AI by James Cox, and he'll be on to talk to us about that. AI is so hot right now, they're putting it in books. James Cox is an award-winning filmmaker who's written and directed several motion pictures, including Wonderland, starring Val Kilmer in the acclaimed short film Atomic Tabasco.

That's IANIMO with Atomic Tabasco every morning. Wakes you right up with a coffee. A diehard 49ers fan, we'll forgive him for that. James lives with his fiance in Los Angeles, where he is writing the sequel to his debut novel, Grand Theft AI. Welcome to the show, James, from a Raiders lifelong fan. Oh, okay. You know, Bay Area. Got it. Are you from the Bay Area? I'm not from the Bay Area, but the one time I went to a Raiders game, the 49ers were playing. And it was like a prison yard, basically, trying to survive on a prison yard.

You were in the Coliseum. I was in the Coliseum. And I've never seen so many fights break out within 10 feet of me in my life. And it was like living in a prison yard. It seriously was. One guy came up to me. He was a huge man, and I'm 6'2", and he looked like Bubba from the prison, and he said to me,

that fries look pretty good. And I was like, you can take them. Just please don't hurt me. Please don't hurt me. These are your fries. Yeah, but they were wonderful. You know, I think there was one person who got, we saw thrown head first down some of the,

down kind of over our shoulders. He was thrown head first down the, you know, we're up on the risers. And you're just like, you know, the mathematics of physics that it takes to be going head first down from that angle, you have to have quite the launch position. And I remember seeing it just going,

well, that's interesting. But yeah, they don't get along up there much. It's probably good that they moved into my town of Vegas. James, welcome to the show. Give us your dot coms where people can find you on the interweb, sir. Jamescoxbooks.com

and you'll find all my socials there. It's a one-stop shop for this book and the movies and all things me. There you go. Give us a $30,000 over your new book, Grand Theft AI. It is a heist that goes down in the fall of 2051. It's an accelerated 2051, or at least it was when I started writing it. It is defined in large part by a domestic security event that went down eight years in the backstory in 2043. It's kind of the 9-11 of the synthetic generation in which certain model androids went haywire and tens of thousands

of Americans were killed one afternoon. And as a result, the technology has innovated at an exponential rate. And so there's an amount of luxury and opportunity that's enjoyed by those who can afford it and those who can't are suffering a pretty robust security apparatus. And the neural implants that you jockey for now, they're mandatory. So everyone's on grid all the time. And in this dystopia come together like this surrogate family of ragtag thieves to pull off the heist of the century. And some of them are traditional mechanics like the getaway girl who saddles a monster of a motorcycle, a 2028 Hayabusa. And then others are specific to this world, different kind of hacker. One of them is called a Cracker Jack. One of them is called a Flyboy. And these are all

very specified coders and hackers with applications that are required for the gig and through the course of the caper they get involved with much larger forces not just the kingpin they're knocking over but stuff that deep goes deep down into the root of the world itself and they all end up having to make a choice there you go and those choices shaped the movie it's billed as the matrix meets blade runner is that an appropriate analogy i think so you know i think you know i keep i'll keep reaching for it i am quite proud of it you know it's always it's always been imagined as a cyberpunk landscape uh blade runner is probably the best example example on film snow crash neuromancer all these types of things are big influences i come from silicon valley and i think that's accurate and then i think also the matrix side of stuff because

there is a a commercial product called the wet wire which is essentially a swiss army smartphone in your head that can go from ar to vr to full haptic sim you can pop in and out and very much like the matrix wow that sounds like awesome the porn must be great on it you know it's funny you should say that i'm reminded of the tropic thunder quote you know if you ever want to chart the tech the progress of technology yeah just follow porn there you go and never go full retard the it has some interesting things in the book too there's a vr infinite vr prison time which anytime i have to deal with an apple product feels like infinite. And I imagine there's a lot of AI in here.

How did you, did you map out, I don't know, kind of what our future looks like with AI where we're headed. I did, you know, the movie, the book,

I keep, I will keep oscillating back and forth because at some point we should get into a little bit of kind of how I got into the, the book writing role. But I, it is a framed narrative. You know, chapters 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 are taking place in the heist time of late 2051. And then chapters 2, 4, 6, 8, every time you introduce a new character or element to the world, there will be kind of a, it's almost like a biographical narrative short story chapter that opens up the world build. But I think that if there's anything about this

cyberpunk thing that for me is unique, it's that so many times, whether it's Blade Runner or whatever else, you're just dropped into this world. And maybe you get a little bit of a rewind and explanation but for the most part you're just chasing after you know for this one there are characters who are born before this podcast and so they are their histories involve stuff that we've already lived through and then all the innovations that are to come kind of occur on a timeline, and each one of them goes through it from different points of view. There you go. So we'll circle back to that other question you wanted me to ask you about on how you got into writing.

Let's talk about your history. People usually want to know about the author. Tell us about how you grew up, what influenced you, what made you want to become a filmmaker and eventually an author and work on these different storytelling devices? I mean, it has been a road, that's for sure. I got a very young, fortunate break in the entertainment business. I grew up in Northern California making movies in my backyard with a camcorder like at 10 years old.

I went to Berkeley for a couple of years. I transferred out to NYU. And I was that kid that you hear about every once in a while that comes out of film school with this red hot short that it just exploded. It won at Sundance. It won a student Academy award, sold to HBO. And then when it hit Los Angeles, it really, the industry really responded to it. My first three meetings were crazy. It was Jerry Bruckheimer bought my first pitch on day one. Ridley Scott and Tony Scott signed me to RSA and Mike DeLuca and Donna Langley hired me at New Line to direct the Scott Rosenberg picture starring Jake Gyllenhaal and Jared Leto. I was off to the races.

I couldn't even graduate from school because I was already on set directing a $14 million studio picture. Wow. There you go. 23 years old and there we go. And then I think we dropped one of the names of one of your movies in. Do you want to drop other ones? I think we dropped the Wonderland. Yeah.

I mean, the movie that I did at that point was called Highway. I had no idea what I was doing. I'll be honest. It was coming from peanut butter sandwiches to 36 trucks literally overnight. Wow. I think the first day on set like there was this hush across across shoot across the set because i had turned around the crew twice which i didn't even know what that meant at the time so it took me a long time to figure out how to move the machine

and mike deluca ended up leaving new line and that movie lost its theatrical release so i struggled i kind of had to figure it out like what did i do right what did i do wrong And Mike DeLuca ended up leaving New Line, and that movie lost its theatrical release. So I struggled. I kind of had to figure it out. Like, what did I do right? What did I do wrong? Which is when I think at that point, I realized that, you know, there was a big difference for me between director for hire and directing my own material. And that I also, right around there, I read a script called Training Day.

Okay. And that thing, that thing changed my life I'll be honest it was the best script I had ever read I happened to read it on the date it published and it took me a day to get my agent on the phone and I lost my mind I was like dude you gotta get me on the room and the thing is insane I don't know why you tell me this teen screen

stuff it's the greatest you know he's like how who sent you that script and i was like oh i got it on a sample and yeah wait what you know like he goofed and he's like no just that's just then he started back playing that's just it's like an a-list only script oh wow it's like you know which i wasn't, obviously, at the time. And I realized, like, if I was going to direct what I wanted to direct, I was going to have to write it myself. And so at that moment, I think if you ask me, like, when did I – I had written professionally. I had written personally, obviously, my whole life.

But that was when it was all in, where I just knew I was a screenwriter. And there was a true crime that came my way, which we discussed, called Wonderland. And it's this notorious true crime. I don't know if you've ever heard of it or seen it, but it's starring Val Kilmer. And it is this grisly quadruple homicide that went down in the summer of 81. And I got my hands on the LAPD crime scene tape. It was the real thing, real thing you know like with it's you know

I will never forget the blood on the walls you know four bodies on the floor I didn't do it I just wanted to get clear me neither it's funny you should say it. Anyway, so bone shattering like wood. But I ended up getting consumed by that thing.

I sat down with Val Kilmer to play the role of John Holmes, who is this infamous porn star at the center of the whole crime. And he sat there and he goes, James, I got to ask you this question. It might not be important to your process, but it's important to mine. Do you know Don? do you know dawn do you know sharon you know and that's john's wife and girlfriend of the time played by kate bosworth and lisa kudrow and i go i go val do i know i hold up this necklace i'm like that's sharon holmes's wedding ring i'm wearing it around my neck i was so just all in lisa kudrow was like ew what are you wearing that for that was like ripped it off my head faster than i could flinch grabs this thing if you've seen his doc holiday or his jim morrison you know he's like a shaman

right he starts rubbing this thing like aladdin lamp, looking off into the ether. You know, he's like, a lot of pain, a lot of heartache. He looks at me and he's like, a lot of blood. Wow. And, you know, that, I mean, the set was haunted. Really? Yeah, we shot it. There were things that went bump in the night in my life that I could not explain there were no atheists in my in this foxhole like ghost stories i can tell but i

won't i'm already on a tangent but we shot on the scene of the crime and the movie was just magic it really caught it caught the eye of legends like huge influences in my life like michael mann robert town robert zemeckis bob evans a writer who proved would prove instrumental in my career shane salerno william friedkin and francis coppola francis you know like yeah val took us up to the took me in the movie up to the winery and yeah like we watched it in his private screening room and the lights come up and francis comes at me with these fingers he's james you know it's like straight out of hearts of darkness he's like you know the opener of your movie and i was like oh my god is this happening you know it's like this is all between before i turned 30 dude that's like a rocket ship man man. That's like a rocket ship.

It was a full, I mean, it was so funny. It was a absolute rocket ship. And I mean, looking back, I realized, Chris,

I had no idea how fortunate I was. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it soon after that, I think was when my demons got the better of me.

Oh. Mm-hmm. Cocaine and hookers? Let's just say excess in every sense of the word. You know, but I was someone who always loved going out. I mean, Martin Scorsese has cocaine years from what I understand. I think he submitted to that. You know, I went to the same school as he did. He was a legend in New York.

You know, I love going out in New York city cause that city never sleeps. And that's where I, you know, cut my teeth and go into school there. But you know, I was someone who just could not draw the line between work hard and play hard. It was all just one big juggernaut of energy. And I think, I mean, honestly, like back then, deep down in my insecure heart, I really did believe you had to live life like a rock star to be an artist. Yeah, it's kind of all plays together, really. Like I've been a big Metallica fan all my life. And when they got off drugs, a couple albums really sucked. And I'm like, can we just get back on drugs again?

You know know it's funny because i come from the music business i came out of atlantic records and the me and my best friend at nyu he's now nominated for three oscars for music and he's actually in the short atomic tabasco he's got the cowboy hat hat on and i was shooting all of his film projects and i was writing lyrics on his album and yeah like a lot of my musical role models you know excess the watchword but it all caught up with me you know when my dad died he you know the signs of self-destruction were already there but when he when he passed I just buckled wow and so did that give you a an moment, a moment of, okay, where are we at, clarity?

Yeah. I mean, I should have been in a therapist's office seeking professional help, but instead I just said, screw it. Yeah. I mean, they should deliver. You know what you do? You hire the therapist to deliver the booze hookers and cocaine. That's what you do and that way you've got everybody there at the party and you can you know just every now and you can lean over between the cuts and be like hey my dad didn't hug me enough as a child what's up

i mean i was making bad decisions already so i started making really bad decisions you know what i mean but yeah i mean i was right and i just, I'll be honest, like I was, I, you know, offended super talented people. I embarrassed myself, embarrassed myself in very public arenas and showed up unprepared to really critical professional moments and blew huge opportunity after huge opportunity out of ego. Yeah. A.K.A. fear. Stuff that would have changed my life in a very real way good movies, great relationships I burned them all to the ground man

I just didn't give a damn so how did you come out of it? my life got really small for a very long time until finally I woke up at least you didn't go through the journey where you ended up in prison or the hospital. Unless you've left that part of the story. I did not end up in prison or a hospital. That's good.

Some people have to hit that rock bottom before they... I was Thanksgiving 2013. I was in the lobby of the Hyatt on Union Square in San Francisco I don't know if you know it but all the hair shot up on the back of my neck and everything changed it was like some wind blew through me wow and I was done running and I was done numbing and I got back to Los Angeles and I got to work you know facing up to who I'd become and finding the real me. There you go. And I think about that time you probably were working on Straight A's or Billionaire Boys.

Yeah, I mean, you know, it took me a long time to figure out, like, who I was and, you know, how to put myself back together again. And a lot of writing, you know, finding my real voice. And it's funny you mentioned the, you know, voice club because, you know, when that picture came together, that thing, I struggled. Yeah, the logistics were arduous and the true crime was a labyrinth, but it was the main character that was really hard to get right. This guy named Joe Hunt hunt who's still in prison and i think it's because that project dated back to my darkest days and i had this death wish

fascination with condemned souls yeah and reflection of yourself you know everything you everything i work on is always a reflection on myself so maybe what you're saying made a lot more sense you know when the lens was a was polished yeah so to speak or at least you know but anyways you know i it was was it really a cautionary tale that needed to be told or or just this too twisted nightmare of greed and entitlement gone haywire. Right. And it was 2017. It was like a gut check for our business.

And you really had to ask yourself, did the world need a true story about white, privileged young men from Beverly Hills whose horrible financial crimes turn horribly violent? Are there any movies that aren't? You know, I can tell you when that thing cratered and it cratered for reals. Really? Yeah. You can bet I was in a therapist's office that week.

Oh, wow. You had some great talent on there. Kevin Spacey. I mean, he's such a great actor. I really wish. Incredible. He's been to court for all these accusations he's gotten and been acquitted. I'm really disappointed Hollywood doesn't bring him back.

He's an incredible actor. I mean, incredible is an understatement. Yeah. And his body of work is astounding. I kind of resent Hollywood, actually, over it. I mean, you know, I don't want to get you in trouble. So you can leave me under the bus. I was literally three.

It was like on a Monday and a Wednesday and a Thursday, three separate therapists because it was, it just was like that. And it was on the one yard line. I mean, we were literally screening for buyers and it was tough going, what the heck happened? And I will, I got to give credit where credit is due. It was my fiance who helped me put things in perspective. She is a brilliant and talented architect, a RISD graduate, a maker, but she, you know, she is a Academy award-winning set designer. And most importantly, she's a crew member. But she is an Academy Award winning set designer.

And most importantly, she's a crew member. So I was able to see Billionaire Voice Club and its demise through my crew's eyes. And you hear they say that our filmmaking is a collaborative medium. And it's so true. I can hear her words like ringing in my head, you you know like it takes a village to raise a child and so many people like work so hard on that picture for so long and over one weekend it just evaporated you know juicers and teamsters and pas and crews and me, you know, like years of my life, but a year from hundreds of crew members, you know, gone. You know, we've worked through holidays and sacrificed precious time with our families. And for what?

For a four-walled release on 10 screens to satisfy four in? It was like, you want to know what I wanted to say? I want to say screw that yeah yeah but i knew where that went so it looks like you took some time off after that and is that what moved you into writing i mean that at that moment i just started writing you know that process that movie was a really it was logistically arduous. And I had put the pen down for figuratively for like over a year. And so when I just got back on the horse, I started writing. It was stuff that I loved as a kid.

Like Star Wars, Alien, Aliens, Predator, Blade Runner, The Matrix, Snow Crash, Neuromancer. Like just characters at first. Pros, like not screenplay format, like little short story bios in a world set against the coming golden age of AI. I didn't know what it was or where it was going. I just knew that it was what was true in my heart. World building sci-fi. This seamy, dystopian, technology crazed future with bots and brain computer interfaces and a government that's everywhere beginning and ending with your head. But at its heart, you know, this time was this love story between two damaged, battle-scarred souls who come together to find redemption and survive. There you go. You know, the world was dark and treacherous, but the characters were hopeful, you know, aspirational, likable. Ripley and Hicks, Indy and Marion, Neo and Trinity.

Baz and Rhea. It sounds like you went back to your roots and you found where your true love is, of what you enjoy. Going through a cathartic moment and getting back to the basics, as I like to call it in business, where you get

back to what you love and you're center again. You know, this, like I was saying when I was finding my true voice, this was my true voice. This is my true voice. And the stories, they evolved into a screenplay that for a second

was going to be my next movie but then it just kept going and then oddly turned into a novella and i just kept writing and the thing kept growing until eventually i sent the manuscript to my mentor shane salerno and he read the thing in a day. Really? That's good. I mean, nobody reads anything in a day. If it's good, you do. Well, yeah.

That's a loaded comment. It really is. Because, I mean, we've had authors in the show, if I get five seconds to read a book, sometimes the first fucking line just sucks me right in. I'm like, God damn it. You've got to read that thing. You've got to find out what happens. I know where we're going with this one then.

Because he called me up and he said, yo, just a heist set in a Blade Runner Matrix world. We can do something with this. He was blown away by this new direction no one expected me to be harboring this secret passion for sci-fi and you know he he also you know he imagined or he envisioned a world as bold and as far-reaching as I did. You know, he, like Shane just got it. And he, you know, insisted that it was not in a condition to send out. You know, he did not think it was ready,

but he wanted to develop it together further. And when the time was right, he would take it, we would take the publishers. And he was really honest with me. He was like, you know, I can't help you with directing movies right now, but I know how to get this book published. And we went to work on it for a number of months.

And when it was ready, he took it to Blackstone Publishing and they flipped for it. And it's been a long road. I mean, I'm grateful that I've been able to share this thing with you. So thank you. But it was even longer getting the novel right. You know, it was working with a sensational team at Blackstone, Josh and Stephanie Stanton, Josie Woodbridge, my developmental editor,

Diana Gill, my copy editor, Michael Crane. You know, we just draft after draft. Perfectionism, I kept thanking him for. Thank you. I'm still thanking him for. Sounds like you had your Oscar speech down for this because you're naming all the names. I am so proud of this. I do want to give credit to you because I can go into it at some point.

But there was a big learning curve going from what I had written, the prose stuff, which was a voice that I had been developing on my own, and then starting to work with the professionals at Blackstone. And so I am so very proud of this. It is the best thing I've ever done. And thank you for having me on your show. Yeah, thank you for coming. We're not done yet. No, no. That was just the yard you know, the yarn.

That was part of the Oscar speech there. I get it. Yeah, you can, when you accept the Oscar for this movie, please do name a son. I appreciate that. But so it's probably, you know, writing a book is probably very different than writing a screenplay. Is that kind of what the learning process was for you?

Yeah, yes. The first leap was into this prose that i that in our line of work or in in the in the movie business you are publishing as a writer writing that is not in screenplay format and so it's whether it's in a pitch doc or a treatment, you know, you are coming out with pros. Been developing this voice through that, that was starting to really heat up. And then it kind of exploded in this process that I was just telling you about. And then the manuscript that Blackstone bought, to put it mildly the margins were wonky you know if you eric roth is a is one of the best screenwriters there is and he always he says i think he said to the la times you know screenwriting is a very interesting idiom you know we use a lot of dots and dashes and each one means something

you know like when i use an ellipsis or a double dash in a screenplay it's it's it's different than a period whatever and so i think diana my editor i mean it was just unwinding that and there's a thing called cmos i'm sure you know it right i didn't i mean mean, so like I, even my quotations were like in it and you know, you look, read, read,

what is it? Oh God. Patricia Highsmith, her, her amazing one. That is that Elizabeth Moss is in Handmaid's Tale. All the, all the quotations I think are in italicized.

So there's definitely times where you just break the rules and throw them out the window, but you better be Patricia Highsmith when you do it, you know yeah there was definitely there's a thing called at some point i'll tell there was a thing called head hopping which was the real heart of the learning curve yeah there you go you know what i'm talking about i don't that sounds like something from your earlier days of of i was told i was i was told you were a very humorous human being i've been told that most of my women who are just like you're funny bye

you do make them laugh though that's about that's about that's about it and then i make them cry you know jane and i were working on something a while ago, which Ocean's Eleven is. And that's a model for this book. And that is one of the best lines. Does he make you laugh? He doesn't make me cry. He doesn't make me cry. Actually, you should make him cry.

He'll like you more. He's always the one so yeah head hopping is when you're bouncing from one character to another within a paragraph you know and it's it's kind of a no-no it goes it was once in vogue so frank hubert and dune and francis not francis ernest hemingway does it but it it's now like people prefer to be kind of keyhole into a specific perspective and when you're directing a scene you've got to be in every actor's head at once so if there's a transaction that's like a gun goes off or someone punches someone or someone sells something whatever the heck they come through the door everybody's head is interacting with that moment in a different

way and then they're interacting off each other And you're kind of playing this game of chess as you're directing the scene. And so when I started writing this thing, that was what this was. It was like, this is what I can't ever do on screen. And so I approached it like that. And so I was in everybody's head at once and cracking punchlines. One person was thinking one thing and someone was thinking the other. Man, unwinding that had to kill some babies. You know what I mean?

Yeah, you got to leave some on the floor. But you're working on book two, right? So there's going to be a second sequel? I am. I am. Yeah. Oh, I have to get my head-hopping joke in. I didn't think that was a Hollywood term.

I thought that was a North Hollywood term. Sorry, I had to get my head-hopping joke in. I didn't think that was a Hollywood term. I thought that was a North Hollywood term. Sorry, I had to get that one in there. Does everyone know what that means? I don't know what that means, but it sounded like a good joke. That's the valley. That's the Paul Thomas Anderson's Boogie Nights. Yeah, that's head-hopping. Not sure what it means.

You can ask someone on the street in north hollywood and they'll tell you so i had to get that joke in there it seemed like too much to waste or too little either way it's there sometimes we die on the show just to kill we don't go for the i would not go right for that dying no i would not consider i think my audience gets it at this point oh sure i'm you know and if they don't they're like what does that mean yeah it's probably the wrong show for them that or they're i don't know really religious what's the chances of do you think is the second book going to come out soon and what's the chance of this being turned into movies i mean you on the options so you're you've already optioned the book technically yeah

i mean it's up to the movie gods of it getting made. It obviously comes from a filmmaker. It is a visual world. It's built. The odds or the chances are... Shane Salerno is my manager and representing the book. To the movie gods we pray and do the rain dance, but it is built for that. Michael Mann would be a good director for this you mentioned him earlier and i was i was reminded that heat is my number one favorite film of all time i mean the godfather i don't know there might have to be a fight but which one's your favorite michael man movie i'm curious heat heat heat is what heat

heat is probably my favorite film of all times, although The Godfather has to be... If you were to say, what is the greatest film of all time, it has to be The Godfather. But my favorite movie is Heat, and then Godfather II. But I'm really concerned because he's working on Heat, the sequel, and I'm really not sure I want to have that masterpiece pissed on. I don't know if it's a prequel or a sequel.

Oh, yeah. I just don't want to see it ruined. It was like Godfather 3, basically. Yeah. Or Matrix 3. Right. Matrix 3, what the fuck is going on already? Isn't that the byline?

But no, he would be good for this movie. Ridley Scott, of course. Michael Mann, Ridley, all of them. Are we asking who would be my wish list? Yeah, sure. If you've got one. Charlie Booker would be quite incredible. He's the guy behind the Black Mirror movies.

I think Ridley Scott would be fantastic. Or Guillermo would be amazing. Guillermo del Toro. We're just going off like really heavy hitters. You know, so I don't know. I would love to. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

You direct it. I loved Blade Runner 2049, but I think it kind of loses it in the third act, but the first half of the film is just sensational. When they go to the desert i think that's when we go off the rails i think when he's not the one oh yeah yeah you know you're you're he's like oh you thought you were the messiah we all did and you're like wait a minute you're like if neo wasn't the one yeah yeah i i don't have a wish that now i feel unprepared in terms of who would be my wish list but yeah i you know the you're putting me on the spot you're fine because most authors just lie to me and they go no i haven't thought of any movie

stars or directors i haven't thought of anyone in the film i think they're trying to have the best play on options they don't want to curse it oh gosh no i i would just a lot of it for me is just the the opportunity for it to get to get translated to the screen and really to hear any one of these guys that we're talking about whether they're in a director capacity or producer scenario and they bring on somebody like especially where you know where they bring on somebody who wants to redefine a side of cyberpunk world. I'm just really excited to hear someone come in on board who gets it and

be like, what, what, what has to go in there? What, what doesn't, you know, if it's a movie,

is it a streaming thing here people come back to me and and tell me oh this part you've got to get the kiss or you've got to get the moment where they do the deep dive or because there there is this when your world to go through the world building chapters it really gets exploratory it goes into the main characters you know there's both the main character and the kingpin their their war record in in tour and in theater in in this global conflict that's called the water wars and so it really gets out there the the movie you know the book the the heist itself is keyhole that's kind of contained into the target they're hitting. But as you branch out into everybody's characters,

you're getting into these tendrils that go everywhere. So I'd be really excited to hear, you know, someone come on board and be like, James, I love this and I love that, but this part felt like fat and what if we did this? Sounds like it's got some elements that can be built down into multiple films which Hollywood likes too as well you know

yeah it's got it's I mean that was the idea you know when Blackstone bought the first one they bought the sequel too so with an eye on the series and it's you know it kind of I think there's a few of the things that you feel

there are certain like when it comes to ai whether it's how or skynet or in the matrix the war against the machines or with the replicants in blade runner right You have these meditations on what it means to be human and machines that rebel against their masters. And I just found that I just was like, that's not where this goes, right? That just felt there's a lot of AI stuff everywhere right now. But there's also a lot of researchers that are like like the idea that a machine is going to rise up and you know conquer its master is preposterous it's like there's the safeguards are all in place you know the thing you really want to be afraid of is who owns these ais and the idea that they're going to rise up you know that's just an opiate to to distract you from who's

really got the boot on your neck and so in terms of the meditation on what it means to be human you're you're dwelling you're that is all being told through the humans that are inside this world that are just trying to get by and make a buck in a world in which the rich are just getting richer and richer and the like i said like the the this event has created it's called like i said it's called the glitch and it kind of opens the novel and it really creates the ability for certain sectors of society to gobble up and own these wildly powerful pieces of innovation. Wow.

For example, where is ChatGPT? Where is it? Like on the internet or other offices? Yeah, like the actual thing, like the whopper. The brain, as it were? I don't know. Yeah, like I had to call a buddy of mine. It's in the cloud.

Yeah, no, I thought. I was like, is it just out there in the ether in the cloud? He was like, it's in a data center. I think you pray to it and it appears or something. It's in a temple. It's got this mark. I think you sacrifice a chicken. You know, vases of black goo. You this mark. I think you sacrifice a chicken.

You know, vases of black goo. You do that scene in Angel Heart with the chicken and the voodoo stuff they do. You know, that's how it works. I'm a big fan of Angel Heart. You know, you're climbing up the tree for sure. I could watch that. Yeah, so that is kind of, I found that is to be kind of

painting you into the corner of like how are you really going to get better than Hal winding down going Daisy you know or any of the stuff in the Matrix or the Animatrix or Skynet I just kind of was like I just felt like we've been down there

and it was much more interesting to do stuff that had to do with that. That's just almost taken for granted and thrown away, and it's more about dealing with the type of world where you can go anywhere with your head. Yeah. This is the hottest technology you've written about, so it should be something they should fire up onto the big screen, in my opinion. As we go out, give us your final thoughts. Give people a final pitch out to pick up the book, wherever fine books are sold and all that good stuff.

Yeah, it is on my – it's the best way is to go to my website, jamescoxbooks.com. I mean, it is for sale on Amazon, pre-order on Amazon, Goodreads, Barnes & Noble, Target, Walmart, everything. It is completely available. All you got to do is type in Grand Theft AI. You can also come to my website if you want to know more about me, which is jamescoxbooks.com. As for the final pitch, like I was saying, you know, they bought the second book.

And so hopefully this is a series uh and as i was finishing the proof and the copy edit to book one like at the same time i was finishing the manuscript to book two uh the week my daughter was born oh congratulations thank you you know and so on the book not your daughter no i'm just kidding that was bad i knew you know i had a feeling. I was like, I'm going to have to go. But I honestly, that is the headline. There you go. And I buried the lead. Well, congratulations on the daughter. Thank you.

You know, I was holding her in my hands this morning, Chris, and I was thinking about this podcast. And I was thinking about the long road and all the writing, but especially the bad decisions. The bad decisions. I was. I was thinking about and i you gotta say this because we're talking about your daughter here so you gotta make a curve here no you know honestly like i was that that was the thing is that all the stupid stupid shit i did somehow led to something someone so wonderful and precious you know and that's what her name means precious a pearl

and you know the characters i write and the movies i work on you know how i behave how i interact with people how we treat one another it carries so much more responsibility because i am shaping a life now you know and the world can be dark but the heroes they got to be heroic you know i'm a i'm a role model now yeah and so i just got to say it you know today i am grateful for one last chance one more chance to share my dreams there you go there you go the blessing the luck that anyone out there might read this book, you know, that is a blessing from the universe. There you go. It's not as profound as my daughter's smile, but it's a blessing nonetheless. And I, I trust that now after all this, I can show my readers, my colleagues, and myself the humility, gratitude, and respect that

this opportunity deserves. And I can't help but marvel or wonder how had my last book, had my last picture not tanked, my first novel wouldn't be coming out in july i wouldn't be holding my little baby girl in my arms you know i wouldn't be you wouldn't be on the chris voss show i wouldn't be on the chris voss show i wouldn't be working with my mentor shane salerno this force of nature the most talented dude i've ever met but i gotta say what i was saying before like i would not be holding my little baby girl in my arms marveling at the miracle that is this morning and every morning i keep hearing in my head you know captain miller's last words to private ryan echoing over and over again there you go earn this yeah yeah so thank you for having me on your thank you

for coming we really appreciate sharing your cathartic moment your story i mean this is what we love we always say stories are the owner's manual to life and so i love hearing people's stories and their journeys and how they go through them and you know everyone goes through their their learning curves and their moments and and the beautiful thing is, like you said, the hero's journey, you know, coming out the other side. And that makes all the difference, you know. I remember one time I was losing a lot of money on, I think it was on mortgages. And I was sitting down watching the movie with Bogey, The Treasure of the Sierra Madre. And I was feeling like i'd fucked up like i

lost my business or we lost a lot of money and i was thinking like is it over and at the end of the the treasure of sierra madre they've lost everything the gold is blown away in the wind and they realize bogeys i probably shouldn't blow out the whole movie, but they basically have nothing after all the work they did and surviving. And the old man says to the young man, he goes, you're a young man. You have plenty of time to build multiple fortunes between here and now. You'll be fine. You're going to be fine. And, you know, all these cathartic moments we go through in life, you know, sometimes we just wake up one day and go, God, thank God for some of that bad shit because I turned out great.

I mean, I can't, you know, there is so much of that in this dude. You know, there is no way that I could have written that and and had you know to really just have the confidence and just to go for it because you know my first half of my career was all historical fact-based true crime stuff and then to take that passion for history and build a future history you know it had to go down into the abyss yeah i mean that's that's what makes screenwriting great and rock and roll great you know people have to go through the darkness and the depression i think that's i joked about metallica earlier when they reached a point where i heard james hetfield say we can do anything it doesn't matter and i'm like oh shit now they're gonna to make that album Lulu at St. Anger.

And they did. They had to go back through the shit after that and then figure out, oh, there we are. So, James, it was wonderful to have you on. Thank you very much for coming by. Give us your.com so people can find you on the interwebs as we go out. Jamescoxbooks.com. There you go. And continued success, my friend.

Sounds like you're on an amazing hero's journey. Be sure to come back for the second book, too, please. Oh, it would be an honor. Thank you so much for having me on your show, Chris, and it's been a pleasure. There you go. Thanks to my audience for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com,

4chesschrisfast, linkedin.com, 4chesschrisfast, all those crazy places we are on the internet. Be good to each other. Stay safe, and we'll see you guys next time.