The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Hadassah: An American Story (HBI Series on Jewish Women) by Hadassah Lieberman

Episode Date: July 19, 2021

Hadassah: An American Story (HBI Series on Jewish Women) by Hadassah Lieberman Born in Prague to Holocaust survivors, Hadassah Lieberman and her family immigrated in 1949 to the United States. She went on to earn a BA from Boston University in government and dramatics and an MA in international relations and American government from Northeastern University. She built a career devoted largely to public health that has included positions at Lehman Brothers, Pfizer, and the National Research Council. After her first marriage ended in divorce, she married Joe Lieberman, a US senator from Connecticut who was the Democratic nominee for vice president with Al Gore and would go on to run for president. In Hadassah, Lieberman pens the compelling story of her extraordinary life: from her family's experience in Eastern Europe to their move to Gardner, Massachusetts; forging her career; experiencing divorce; and, following her remarriage, her life on the national political stage. By offering insight into her identity as an immigrant, an American Jew, a working woman, and a wife, mother, and grandmother, Lieberman’s moving memoir speaks to many of the major issues of our time, from immigration to gender politics. Featuring an introduction by Joe Lieberman and an afterword by Megan McCain, it is a true American story.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain now here's your host chris voss hi folks chris voss here welcome to the show we certainly appreciate you guys tuning in the chris voss show.com thanks for coming we appreciate our love it's being here today we have an amazing guest on the show and she's gonna be talking about a wonderful new book go to to goodreads.com, 4Chess Chris Voss. See

all the wonderful things we'll be reading, reviewing over there. You can also go to youtube.com, 4Chess Chris Voss. See the video version of this as well. Also go to see all our groups on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and all those places on the internet so you can see them there. Today we have an amazing author on the show. She's the author of the newest book, Hadassah, an American Story, and it just came out March 18, 2021. She is joining us today, and she's going to be talking about this wonderful book that you can get everywhere. But let me tell you a little bit about her. In 1949, she and her family immigrated from the Czech Republic to the United States. She went on to earn a B.A. from Boston University in government and dramatics and an M.A. in international relations and American government from Northeastern University.

She built a career devoted largely to public health that has included positions at Lehman Brothers, Pfizer, and the National Research Council. After her first marriage and a divorce, she married Joe Lieberman, a U.S. Senator from Connecticut who was the Democratic nominee for Vice President with Al Gore and will go on to run for President and technically won. Welcome to the show, Mrs. Lieberman. How are you? I'm good. I'm really happy to be here because part of what I wanted to do was to take this serious story out of my mind and my parents telling me what had happened in the past. And all that happened to me is an immigrant to the United States of America. And so I thank you, Chris, for inviting me to be on your show. And we're honored to have you on the show as well.

Writing a book is hard. And, of course, you've got an incredible story to history and life, both with you and your husband. Give us your plugs for people who look you up on the interwebs and where they can order the book. Okay. Obviously, Amazon. And it's my name. Hadassah is the book, beginning of the name of the book. And it can also be through Brandeis University, who published the book. Much to my happiness.

There you go. It's good to know you're still happy. Oh, yeah. A lot of people aren't. That's what I've noticed lately. And that's, we got to get things together. Sure. And amongst ourselves.

There you go. I guess what we say is that motivated you to write the book. Being able to finally tell your story, is that a good assessment? It is, but it really goes back to after my mother died, I was cleaning out books and all of a sudden came across this book that had her name on the cover and it was in Czech. So I didn't understand a word. I knew some languages, but not Czech. And so I asked the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C. to translate it. And then I noticed that my mother had the diary that she had written before Auschwitz and Dachau and Rauch and liberation. And she said, i couldn't write anymore and i look to you children to complete things

so what was i going to do chris when i got that i knew i had to write yeah so i spent time researching and reading and doing what it's hard to be a kid and find diaries from parents and then to give that to people you want to hear and listen and read them. So is this a full, complete biography of camp and my father from slave labor camp and are traveling to the United States of America on a boat and coming with no language in English and coming as immigrants to the country and the stories, the adventures, the striving that you go through as an immigrant and speaking the language of Yiddish when you're in Gardner, Massachusetts, a small town near New Hampshire. But they don't know anything about the Holocaust or my language of Yiddish. And so it's the story of that period and my time in the kindergarten and high school. I speak for democracy, winning of a contest, and on to college. And I included lessons that I learned myself to those who might be able to use them, such as divorce and such as taking on new kids from a spouse.

And so I wrote about all that. And then the adventure of meeting my husband, Joe Lieberman, and how exciting that was and what that did for me nationally. And the lessons that I learned out there and the lessons I was able to communicate. That's awesome. I think this is really important. I have a lot of Jewish friends. In fact, they say oy vey all the time. And I pick that up from them because sometimes I'm in settings where I can't swear, corporate, different things. And so I'll default to oy vey. And so that works out really well.

But it was disappointing me to learn in recent years that a lot of kids nowadays don't even know what the Holocaust is or what happened or any of this sort of stuff. And so I think books like this are important because they reteach, they retell these stories and let people know, because if you don't learn from history, you're doomed to repeat it. In your book, you grew up in the shadow of Holocaust. And I've often wondered what it's like to grow up with parents that are retelling that story. Did they share it with you a lot? Was there a lot of discussions about it? And give us some insight to that. They didn't hide from it. And it was part of their background, part of their story.

But also, they didn't tell us so many details. My mother just had never really talked about it that much. And the details I picked up in her diary on Auschwitz and all of those awful experiences. And my father also wrote a book about his slave labor camp. So those stories were my background. And as a consequence, I obviously read more on other people's diaries and what they felt was part of their background, their heritage. And meeting people who knew nothing about it in Gardner, Massachusetts, they'd never heard about the Holocaust. And they really heard a few things here and there,

but no idea as to what these internments were, these death camps of families like our family that were just killed. And my mother's story about entering into the camp at Auschwitz, marching in. And her mother and sisters were on one side. And people who had small babies were sent to one line and older people were sent to that same line. And she was sent to another line. she asked one of the nazi guards she said i want to see my mother and he said you'll see her tonight but it was a death line a death march and so she wasn't going to see her and then she saw the smoke and they smelled the awful fumes and they didn't know that these were chambers of murder. And so as a consequence, and I did go back to Auschwitz, it's written about in the book,

which I think is an important memory that I was able to have because the White House, during President Clinton's time, sent a trip to Auschwitz for a commemoration of an anniversary, 60th anniversary. And I'll never forget walking in with Elie Wiesel next to me and the head of several countries, Poland, others, and walking in and actually seeing these death camps. I was so amazed by it all and learned to, wrote all my memories and I learned all the stories that I'd remembered my mother told about where they went in and how they went. Luckily, some of them didn't get killed and how their hair had to be shaved off. I'll never forget. They were all naked. And my mother said, oh my God. She would never have thought of that,

but she said there were so many people. It was the thing you didn't even think about. And she went into the camps, and she was terrified. And then they made it out and went into this tough dormitory where they just, people's heads, legs, the women were all near each other. So these were the stories, the memories. And it just, when you say you have memories from the Holocaust, your parents have come out of it. And no matter, some people were in better shape, and others were in worse shape. And I know that my mother, it was a trauma. And see, my parents, after they were liberated, they met each other. They probably would never have met before the war, but they met each other.

They became each other's surviving families. Wow. And so we were raised in a different way. And my father always said to me that as he watched the men who were on the march going through Siberia, the cold, and he watched them die literally face down in the snow. He used to say, no one will say the Kaddish, which is the mourner's prayer that the traditional Jew says after a Jew's death. And he would say, who will remember these people? So when I went there, I thought, okay, I have to remember. That's why I wrote part of it.

It's amazing stories and things that people went through. We had, I think, Judy Battalion on the show and she talked about The Light of Days was the book she wrote. And she talked about how a lot of Jewish people went through survivor's guilt. Some people talked about the stories, some people didn't, some people just wanted to put it behind them. But it's got to be challenging as a young girl growing up, listening to these stories and trying to put them in perspective and context to where you're beginning grasp of the world and what you begin with in stories. What is that like? I was lucky because, yes, I had those stories.

Yes, I had that history. At the same time, I had two parents, not perfect, that they had come out of. And they wanted me to march forward. I remember the beginning of my time when I only spoke Yiddish and I was in this kindergarten where the teacher, I could only speak Yiddish. I could barely understand English. The teacher put a basket over our heads. And if we were good, we got to take a candy or a car or a doll out of a basket. I never had anything like that. And I came home and my mother said to me in Yiddish, how did it go? How was it, sweetheart?

And I said, Mommy, no more Yiddish, only English, because I wanted to be like the other kids. I didn't want to be the immigrant all the time. And so I was taught, move forward, be strong, learn. You need to improve yourself and work to become a better American and simultaneously to never forget your background. There you go. And who you are. Never forget your history. So in April of 1982, Joe Lieberman drove from New Haven to

the Bronx to meet you. And this is after you've been divorced. Did you have kids from your first marriage? Yes. I had a little boy who was six at the time I met Joe and who's now I think 45, but I brought him into the marriage and I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have met, I wouldn't have wanted to meet any man who wasn't going to totally be good with my son because the lesson I learned and I articulated it in the book is that it's our obligation. We fall in love with a new person and we want them to be a spouse. But unless we can accept each other's children, unless we can truly make those children our children and our children, their children,e had two teenagers at that point in

time and so we brought in three children and thank god i remember this still because ethan is named ethan in english ethan said to me mommy after he met joe he played Monopoly with me. And I liked Joe. He played Monopoly with me because he liked me, not because of you. And I smiled and I thought, okay, this is a man I can fall in love with. So we learned to, we were very lucky and worked very hard because Joey, of course, was in the midst of his attorney general, his campaign for attorney general. He had been a local Democratic Senate majority leader in the Connecticut Senate. And then he was going on and was trying to make this attorney general. And as a matter of fact, we had this date. It was our first date.

I hardly knew them. So there I was. And Joey came over. I was staying at a girlfriend's house, an old roommate. And he came over on a Saturday afternoon. He was just talking to me. And he said, oh, can you go out tonight? And I looked at him and I said, okay, and where are we going?

So he tells me, well, I have to go to a political event. It's all the other side of Connecticut. but I'd like you to come with me. And I looked at him and I said, Joe, who are you going to say I am? My driver. That'll be fine. And I thought, oh, this is an interesting intro. This is a politician in the midst of his stuff. So I did that. And then that started the whole adventure of trying to get him through the campaign and trying to go to events that always were for something else. And finally, after that first date, I'll never forget, the event ended later. And we finally, I think we were able to have a point that we went to the restaurant to have a drink at 11 o'clock or something like that. And then went to my girlfriend's house and were able to stay up till three. But he said, I have to go because I have to go to Hartford for political event tomorrow. And I get to leave. So I thought, this is the beginning of an interesting

enterprise. Yeah. So you were able to make the adjustment to being a politician's wife then? My dad had been a rabbi and I'll never forget that required me to learn some of the political basics that are needed. So yes, but I did. But one of the lessons I learned is I'll never forget, we had just been married. And I was sitting down with him and a couple of members of our family. And I said something and Joey looked at me and said, Hadassah, if you say that in public, that will be on the front page of the Hartford Courant tomorrow. So I thought, oh, no, I have to watch shutting my mouth a little better. It's politics. It's politics, although these days people seem to have freedom to say what they want to say.

So everything's changed a little. I'm not sure some of it's good from the last five years, but things seem to be on the up and up. At least I hopefully stay on that arc. You were for many years a working mother. How did you balance career, family? You're a little bit in the spotlight being a politician and a politician's wife. But the truth is that we as women who work and who choose to have children and you're married or then you're divorced and you've got to watch how you treat your children vis-a-vis their schools and the assignment. You're carpooling at certain points and they have friends and they're going to friends' homes

and you have loads of events. And I still remember all the birthday parties we had, some of the ones we had when we moved up to New Haven, obviously, because he was, my son was seven when we got married. And the way you have to do it is no different than any woman and man who work and have children. And we know one of the things I quote, my children and my children are all my children. I have no concept of stepchild or a stepmother or a stepfather. Joe and I both agreed that our children are both our children because the choice you make for a spouse who has children, you have to love them as you love your spouse. So we've been lucky.

That's been something we always do. We never do more for one than the other. And I know not everyone can do that. Not everyone has relationships that start off that way. But I've learned, and also for the divorced parent, that's still the parent of your child or the children you've acquired into marriage and i write about that in the book i decided to do that at first i thought oh i don't know if i want to do that i did it and i didn't do it with any criticism toward an ex-spouse because that ex-spouse is a parent of your children. So we've worked together at that. And that took a lot of it. It's funny because we have friends on our street in New Haven where we lived. And I'll never forget when I asked this woman who was a neighbor and friend's brother-in-law, well, how long does it take to bond with stepchildren? I had to use that word

at that point to describe who it was. And he said, five years. And I listened and I said, nothing takes me five years. Sure enough, it took five years. But you know what? I ended up and look, there are plenty of there's always tears, there's difficulties, everything's very hard. But after five years, God bless everything, I ended up with all my children being equal children. And my older ones, who I had just gotten to know with introducing them to me, are children like my other children, we are totally together and trust each other. And there isn't a question, there isn't a favor I can't ask from them. And then after Joe and I had been married, I forget how many years, but we had a little one who was born and she was our smallest and she became such a tie-in to everyone and so we're very lucky but it was with a lot of work so you can't do it unless you're really willing and able to stick it out and shut your mouth and when I say shut your mouth. And when I say shut your mouth, don't say anything that your children,

because they remember. And a new child to you in that way will remember that. And you have to watch what you say to a new spouse about things in the beginning because the children are adjusting and it's hard because all of a sudden they see their daddy. Oh, he loves her or he kisses her or he it's the silly things, but they're important. That's really wonderful. So your husband ran as Al Gore's vice president in 2000. I think that most people should know this. What are your fondest memories of being on the

campaign trail? It was the most amazing experience in my life and in Joe's life. My fondest memories, before I get into the campaign events, the fondest, my fondest memories was because we have Shabbat Friday night and Saturday. We always had a together time. And that was something that Joe obviously had told Al that this was something we observed and we're going to keep doing that. And Al joked to Joe at one time, he said, I think I'll take care of Saturday for you. And I don't have enough time ever on Sunday. You'll take care of Sunday for you. And I don't have enough time ever on Sunday. You'll take care of Sunday for me. But it was really amazing because a fond memory as a parent was that we were able to get together

occasionally when we were able to on a Friday night. Might have been in Wisconsin, in the city La Crosse, Wisconsin, where the kids came, and we had a Shabbat meal. And Joe's staff loved because we just did what we did, and we walked to the synagogue, and loads of Christian weddings were going on in their houses, and they were coming out and wishing us a good Sabbath. And then we went home, going on in their houses, and they were coming out and wishing us a good Sabbath. And then we went home, and some of the staff that didn't have to remain with us had a free Shabbat night if they didn't have anything to do that night.

And the bonding in the political campaign that I always remember with Thanksgiving in my heart is going out there all over the country and in particular in the Midwest. And there I was. And I was by myself because we all went separately because we had political events and fundraisers. And there I was out in the rallies, out in watching people. And then I just stand there shaking hands. And I can't tell you how

many people came up to me and I had no idea they were Midwestern if they were Republican, Democrat, independent, or a non-voter who came up to me and said, I like your husband. I like you people because you're sincerely with each other as a family and your husband's a religious man so thank you i was so i was so shocked i must tell you the bonding i felt with people was really there there was i just didn't feel and i want to say this as someone who you were saying about having Jewish friends. There have been Jewish people who asked me all over the country at various times or in private, Hadassah, just want to know, did you ever feel anti-Semitism on the campaign trail? I look at them and I say none, none whatsoever didn't think about that because it didn't come up. And when I say it, sometimes I don't know if they can totally believe it, but it's true.

And it's an important thing to repeat because today a lot of people don't like each other. And one thing I was always taught, because my father would disagree with me when I was younger because you treated people with respect. In your family, daddies don't always agree with their daughters. And you might have been a little insulted, whatever. But you didn't make that into the end of relationship. And today, people who don't agree with each other, don't sit for a cup of coffee with each other. They don't want to have anything. So how can you speak to each other in a democracy and compromise? Because the truth is, if you believe another way, you might have ideas that I don't have.

You have to tell them to me. Maybe I'll pick up on some of those ideas. Or maybe you'll change your mind. And we talk to each other with respect so the bonding and the warm feelings oh and also toward the immigrant that's one more thing i have to repeat is coming into this country country and then being the wife of the man running in the 2000 campaign. I can't tell you in airports when I walked in, there were all these different women and men and women who had bandanas on who were from all these different countries and accents. And they all came up to me and said, you are an immigrant. You understand me. I'm going to be glad if you can be in this position because you will understand us and help us.

I was so touched by that. I was touched so much by the campaign and from so many places. And that's why when I wrote this book, I wanted it for the divorcee. I wanted it for people who don't get what I believe in or don't get any of the important elements of the story. And I thank you, Chris, because I appreciate your inviting me to share. And we are honored to have you on the show sharing this beautiful story with us. One question I want to fall back to on the concept of, not the concept, but anti-Semitism. When you first came to America and immigrated here, did you experience any of that growing up?

I didn't. I had one boy in, I think it was like first grade, and it was, well, here I was in Guardian, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and it was a polite, quiet town. And he didn't do anything, but he wrote a note or something. I know you're Jewish, which wasn't anything bad, but the teacher took it negatively. And she told him he had to write 100 times or 50 times. I didn't mean to insult you. And that's it. So I didn't mean to insult you. And that's it. So I didn't.

And people were very respectful. And I remember my dad, who was president of the Ministerial Association in the town of Gardner, Massachusetts, before he became the president, before he had joined the congregation. And I remember there was a radio station of the minister, local minister in town, who was just delivering his speeches on the radio. And my father didn't appreciate some of his speeches and thought it was inappropriate. And he called him and went over to meet with him privately over a cup of coffee and said, Reverend, I think some of what you're saying could be anti-Semitic. The Reverend listened to him, and that started a friendship between my father and him so that's how i was raised now we were lucky because we didn't have that and we had such respect

from so many people and we and my mother and the neighbor behind our house in Guardian, Massachusetts. My mother never hung her wash in the backyard on Sunday afternoon and the neighbor never hung the wash on Saturday afternoon. And my mother pointed that out because she thought it was a very respectful thing that they both were doing. So I wish that we had more and more manners and politeness and decency with people who might be different. And they have to also understand that not everybody can love you immediately. And you have to bring people in. We have to be nice to each other. And also we have to understand, sometimes people don't get what they can't say. And these days, everybody's saying everything they want to say in front of children and on the streets. that a politician has to represent her himself in such a way as a leader, not to do or say anything you want to say,

because you have to be better because you're setting an example. People are following your lead. You have to be more careful, And we've lost some of that. So people in their families, in their churches and synagogues, in their clubs, have to really practice better language and behavior, I think, without sounding too preachy. Yeah, you and I grew up in an age of seemingly better enlightenment where everyone was a lot more decent to each other. Getting back to the campaign, you've experienced something and you've written in the book,

something a lot of people don't get to experience, which I always find very interesting with the interviews we have on the show. Your husband is running for the highest office in America, seemingly the most important position in many people's opinion in the world, because the United States and the U.S. president sets the standard. And so you've gone through this campaign, you've gone through the work and the difficulty of the campaign and just the sweat, blood and tears of what that's like to do a U.S. presidential campaign and supporting your husband and then it goes through the protracted mess of the ballots and the chads in Florida and oh my gosh it's a nightmare what was it like going through that and experiencing that and of course having to console or comfort your husband or trying to give support to the campaign tell us a little bit about what the inside and what that feels like or what that

experience is, if you would, please. Yes, it's nothing else. Obviously, we had a lot of local state campaigns, local campaigns, but all of a sudden, you're on a global scale. And all of a sudden, I'll share this silly, stupid example. All of a sudden, you have to give these speeches. But I remember when I was going, when Tipper and I were at the same spot on the stage, I should be aware that you have, Mrs. Lieberman, you have to understand Tipper is wearing green that day. So you have to dress accordingly. You can't wear a conflicting color. I remember the 25-year-olds, a lot of them were on that staff at that point, and some staff that you never knew before they were assigned. And they had been in other campaigns possibly, but not so many.

I remember 25-year-old women looking at me and saying, Mrs. Lieberman, excuse me, but those shoes don't work. They're not fancy enough, or that's the wrong color, or you can't wear that outfit. It doesn't look right. And I think, oh, my gosh, this whole coordinated. And you have to stand here. And you're simultaneously, not only you're standing there, not only you're dressing, not only do you have the right shoes on, but you have to speak. And maybe it's extemporaneously or maybe it's a speech you were given. And maybe sometimes I cheated.

I didn't want to say some of the stuff. And I wanted to say something heartfelt that I felt inside myself. And I did that. And it was interesting because I was able to bond with people in the audience. When I spoke honestly and sincerely, they felt me. And when I told them they can ask me any question they want to, which the staff didn't like at all because, you know, I shouldn't give them that openness. But I said, look, I can always not answer it and just tell you I'm not going to answer it.

But it was an amazing experience all over the country being mindful that each location would have different feelings toward your husband as a candidate. Some of them might like him more. Some might like him less. And some who might like him more were already committed to the other candidate. And that went on because you just didn't know. Now, we had some briefings, obviously, and briefings in particular when vividly going up on that stage and looking out in Tennessee at all there were soldiers, there were people, police, relatives, a few members of the family behind me turning around.

I had to wave to them. And you saw before you what made up the campaign. It's everybody from all over the country. Many people, look, Joe's home state, my home state, Connecticut, but all of a sudden you're going so far beyond it that you can't even believe that's the case. And I remember being in New Hampshire and having people ask me questions. They were a wife of a fundraiser.

And a few questions just seemed silly. And I had to smile and be able to deal with it appropriately. In addition to honesty, being careful what you said. So I would say that it was an opportunity to take everything that's inside you and to be wise and to educate and be educated. And that's what democracy is all about, a sharing of values and beliefs and dreams. There you go. That's America. There was a protracted series of, I think it was about a month, where they were counting the votes and going through all this. And the whole thing is this suspension. That must have been really tough to deal with and really tough to experience because I think this was the first time in America where we'd had this sort of weird messed up sort of election. We have had more since, but what is that like and having to

consult the candidates and be in that suspension? That was incredible because I will never forget that Friday, I wish I could find it in my book and read it, but I'd probably have to flip too many pages. On a Friday, when we heard that they were not, that the Supreme Court was making a decision, and no idea, and I'll never forget that Friday, it was before we observed the Shabbat, the Sabbath on Friday night. And Joe was talking to Al, the vice president. And in the process of having their conversation, he then hung up and they said, bye-bye. And in the morning, not in the morning, as soon as he hung up, Vice President Gore called back and said, Joe, why don't you come over to our house for Shabbat? Since we're just waiting for all this craziness, just come over. He hung up, and I got a bag with all of our Shabbat things, the candlesticks, the challah bread, the braided bread,

and all the stuff that I needed for Shabbat. And the food, I took it out of the oven, wrapped it in paper plates a little bit, and went over there and came inside to the vice president's home and just needed a room because he was going to say the Sabbath prayers. So Tipper showed him to a room and he went in and he happened to be in the room that had the Christmas tree. Because don't forget, this was an elongated election. There was no decision. So he was saying his prayers and turned around,

saw the Christmas tree as he walked out of the room. And then we sat down and had our Shabbat dinner. And we talked about having a restful day. And you'd think we'd be doing a crazy election, not knowing what's going on. and then we got to the end and I remember before we as we're starting Donna Brazil was and they'll pick us up once we get to your house. So they walked us back. We bid them goodbye. And they went into the cars and went back. But that was amazing. And the next day, we started getting different announcements. But during that period of wait, we would be going into, never forget, we'd go into a restaurant. Everyone in the restaurant would stand up and wave because nobody knew what was going to happen.

And saying all the campaigning slogans and everything to us. And that happened all over the place. And Washington was amazing because we were in frozen time. And we couldn't do anything but wait and wait. So it was such angst in so many ways. And then you had to just calm down because there was nothing to do. You could keep seeing people doing things, responding, but it was hard. There's never been anything like it. And the weirdness of how, and I'll never forget,

there's this amazing presentation in Kennedy Center, and I'll never forget that we've all walked in with the Boers and everyone's standing up, getting us a place to sit down to see the priesthood. It was crazy because you were leading an abnormal life in between, and you have no idea how this is going to resolve the complete suspension. So I'll ask you, this is my last question, because we want to tease

out enough of the book, but we don't want them to buy it and go read it. Yeah, please. I don't want to give it to you without your book. That's true. Yeah. So let me ask you this, because I think this is a really important question. I don't know if anyone's asked you this book tour, but to watch the last 20, how long has it been since 2000? I'm getting old. 22 years. And we're just now at the end of this year, I think by September 11th, we're supposed to get out of Afghanistan. There's really, you can really look at, there's a difference to the arc of this country that would have been different if your husband had won without. Well, your husband, let's make it clear, you guys won the popular vote. But if you guys had taken the presidency, there's a real difference to the arc of this country.

Dick Cheney would have been a not been president. George Bush. Sorry, I get those two mixed up all the time. Just doing jokes. What is it like to have been that close to changing the history of this country and then watching everything unfold for the last 22 years and thinking this would have been a much different place and a much different thing if we would have won. And how do you deal with that or how do you reconcile that? Because I would have been angry. I probably still would be angry.

But that's me. Being married to Joe Lieberman, who he went right into the Senate the day after everything had stopped. And he went back because that's the way he handles things. And he was not angry. Not only was he not angry, but he worked with President Bush because he told him right away when he saw him, look, I'm here to work with you as a senator. And truthfully, we'd like to be able to say, oh, people come up and say, oh, everything would have been different. But you know what, truthfully? Who knew about 9-11?

Who knew? Who imagined? Not in a trillion years did we imagine such an example of destruction, of surprise, of anger. So the problem with life, and that's why we have to adjust to things in our personal lives as we know. Do we ever know what's going to happen in our lives? Do we ever know what our children are going to do? What events transpire when we lose each other? Anything. It's all a mystery. So on the one hand, obviously things would have been different. And for me, it's not a resentment, but it was a shock. And knowing my husband, it was a surprise. And I know he would have been able to handle it all with no problem. But the problems are always underneath.

They're always there, and we don't know what they are. I never thought that we would get ourselves to where we are today. The division in our country is dramatically upset to me. It's upsetting because we're Americans first. And we can't be. That is not something that a democracy needs. And both extremes, in my humble opinion, are not where I want to be, where I like to be, where I want my children to be. I want a reasonableness, a moderation that works. We're not at that point. I know my husband is the chair of No Labels, a group that's really working on that. But

there are a lot of people who don't get that, don't want it, don't want to speak for that. I'm surprised we are where we are today. And we have to really, I think, pray for the strength of our democracy. And as an immigrant, I truly, a naturalized immigrant, I truly mean that. Because democracy was a dream and is something we've achieved in this country, much to the elevation praise of many people previously in the world. There you go. There you go. All the more reason for people to read your book, read your history, understand the Holocaust. I would encourage people to know what led us into that thing, the rise of fascism and everything else and the dangers that we're seeing today in some of our politics towards fascism. So there you go.

Mrs. Lieberman, it's been wonderful to have you on the show. Just an honor. And sharing some of the stuff with us. Give us the plugs for the book and tell people where they can order it. Yes. The book was published by Brandeis University, and it can be found on Amazon, Hadassah, An American Story by Hadassah Lieberman. And I hope you do get the book because I really want to share my story with you to make sure that my discussions, memories,

and adventures are part of what you understand. So thank you. And Chris, again, thank you very much. And thank you very much for being on the show. We certainly are honored and appreciate you. The book is great. It's an immigrant story. It's a Jewish story.

It's a story of redemption. It's a story of it going almost up to the highest office in this land, something you aspire to. This is an American, and that's the story of it going almost up to the highest office in this land, something you aspire to. This is an American, and that's the beauty of it. And there's so much that we can learn from you, your story, your history, your family's history, and everything you guys have done. So thank you very much for being on the show with us today. Thank you, Chris. Thank you. And thanks to my audience for tuning in.

Go to YouTube.com, Forge That's Chris Voss. Hit that bell notification button. Go to Goodreads, and we'll see you guys next time.