The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Heather Hester, Podcaster, Speaker, Coming Out Coach, and Mama Bear

Episode Date: December 1, 2023

Chrysalismama.com Biography Heather Hester is the founder of Chrysalis Mama which provides support and education to parents and allies of LGBTQIA adolescents, teenagers, and young adults. She is also the creator and host of the podcast Just Breathe: Parenting your LGBTQ Teen. As an advocate and coach for parents and allies , she believes the coming out process is equal parts beautiful and messy. She works with her clients to let go of fear and the feelings of isolation so that they can reconnect with themselves and their child in a meaningful, grounded way. Heather creates a space where growth and shifts can occur through education and empowerment, instilling the confidence that anyone can move through the coming out process with understanding and love. She is a writer, married to her best friend 27 years, the mother of four extraordinary kids (two of whom are LGBTQIA), and a student of life who believes in being authentic and embracing the messiness.

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fuss Chris was one of the tickety-tockety subscribe that big LinkedIn newsletter things killing it over there I don't even know there's many active people over there on LinkedIn 130,000 LinkedIn group as well today we have an amazing young lady on the show she's gonna tell us about her journey through her experience raising children and some of the challenges and all that good stuff Heather Hester joins us on the show. She's a podcaster, a speaker, a coming out coach, and mama bear. Mama bear, of course, is one of those things you always watch out for.

Never mess with the mama bear. That's what my mama said whenever we would challenge her. And she was right because I had to have my left arm sewn on quite a few times for being bad. Heather Hester is the founder of Chrysalis Mama, which provides support and education to parents and allies of LGBTQIA adolescents, teenagers, and young adults. She's also the creator and host of the podcast, Just Breathe, Parenting Your LGBTQ Team. As an advocate and coach for parents and allies, she believes in the coming out process in equal parts is beautiful and messy. She works with her clients to let go of the fear and feelings of isolation so they can

reconnect with themselves and their child in a meaningful, grounded way. She also works with organizations to educate and empower their employees through workshops, keynotes, and LGBTQ inclusion consulting. She's also the author of the forthcoming book, Parenting with Pride, Unlearn Bias and Embrace and Empower and Love Your LGBTQ Teen. She has a plethora of unremarkable hobbies that keep her grounded, and she's married to her best friend, 27 years, the mother of four extraordinary kids, two of whom are LGBTQIA,

and a student of life who believes in being authentic and embracing messiness. Welcome to the show, Heather. How are you? I am great. Thank you so much for having me. Holy cow, that was a mouthful. I think that I'm going to have to do a little editing of my bio. It's got it all in there. There's a lot of stuff in there. It tells you the story. We don't even have to do the show right now. I know. I think we're done. Thanks for coming, folks. Good night. So give us your dot coms. Where do you want people to find you? Oh my goodness. So my dot com that is the best place to go to is chryisMama.com. And that's Chrysalis like the butterfly cocoon.

C-A-R-Y-S-A-L-I-S-M-A-M-A.com. And you can find everything there. Podcast, book, coaching, tons of resources, lots of stuff. So that's the hub. There you go. And your book, Parenting with Pride, when does that come out? That comes out June 4th of next year. So I am literally in the process where it's in design right now, apparently.

And this is my first book that I've written. So this has been an incredible process working with a publisher. Anybody who's written a book is yes. Yes, it is. Right now I'm at that phase of, I'm so glad this part is done. You have it written and it's handed over to the editors? Yeah. Yeah. It's been the back and forth with the editor for about six months. And now, so by June 4th, I'm going to be super excited again.

There you go. You're going to love it. It's, you know, when you, you finally cross that threshold, you earn a place that few people can get to writing a book. So, and it's funny, people look at you different too. It gives you a whole new level of, of like brand. I don't know. It gives you a whole new level. People just think you're smarter. Which is really funny. Yes. I don't feel any smarter. I i i feel like i've i feel like you know what it is it's the work that goes into writing it and yeah for me for me it was the editing where basically they would stomp all over your dreams and hopes and you would have them 50,000 words and they would be like this page was good we threw the rest out now start over pretty much yeah yeah it's pretty interesting it's definitely it's a lesson of what i learned was This page was good. We threw the rest out. Now start over. Pretty much. Yeah.

Yeah. It's pretty interesting. It's definitely, it's a lesson of what I learned was what to, what do you fight for? What you're like, I will not under any circumstances, let go with this. And then when you're like, eh, all right, fine. Take it. Well, usually they're good. The main thing is they preserve your voice.

That's the key. Yeah. So give us a 30,000 overview of what's going to be in the book, Parenting with Pride, and some of what you do too as well in your coaching. Sure. So, yeah, the 30,000-foot overview, that's a great way to say it because there are a lot of things in there. But essentially, I do what I do because of my kids and because of what we learned. So my oldest, you know, kind of the quick story is that my oldest came out as gay about seven years ago. And we were A, blindsided.

B, had no idea about anything. We had no family members who were gay or in the community. We didn't have friends who had kids. And we didn't know where to find information. And not only was his coming out very bumpy, but he also had a lot of struggles. He was 16 at the time. So there was a lot of mental health stuff there.

There was a lot of dealing with stuff at school. And so kind of were hit with a ton of things at one time. Couldn't find information. Go ahead. And go ahead and finish. I was just going to pop a question there. Sure. No, I was just going to say we couldn't find information.

It was really difficult to find good information and where to find that support, where to find accurate information. Right. And so kind of fast forward to 18 months, we got to like this sweet spot where I was like, well, we couldn't find this stuff, so I'm going to create it. And that's where all of this has now come from. Interesting. So when he was growing up, did you have any incline signs, any inclination? No, nothing. Nothing. Now it's funny. i will look back now and i'll look at certain pictures and i'll be like knowing him and knowing i mean knowing him now and the way that he presents himself in the world i'll look at pictures and i see glimpses of that person in pictures, but I didn't, you know,

before he came out, just did not see it at all. And I think part of that is he was working so hard to mask a lot of things and to be this person that he thought he was supposed to be right. That he thought he needed to be that we wanted him to be. So there was a lot, right. Yeah. Who society was telling him to be. So there was a lot, right?

Yeah. Who society was telling him to be, right? He was a super smart kid. He was the oldest child. There are a lot of those things, those pieces where he was like, well, I'm supposed to be like this and I'm supposed to be like this. So it's a lot of peeling all of that back to find who that authentic person is. There you go. And, and I mean, did you, as you guys were raising him, did, were you guys ultra religious?

Sometimes they have trouble with the, with, with, you know, people from the LGBTQ community. Was, did you, I guess you never had any people who were gay as friends. So it was kind of hard to bridge. Yeah. I mean, you know, we had people who that we knew from other parts of our life who were gay, but never really thought of it. I guess I really thought about now that first question you asked is an excellent question because I actually did grow up in a very, very religious family. Very like alt-right conservative Christian family. So my husband grew up Irish Catholic. So very different ways of growing up. If you look at

it, just like in those very simple ways of looking at things, as we know, life is much more complicated, but it was interesting because we actually, really without thinking about it, had decided we're doing things differently as we raise our kids. And so there were a lot of conversations. And we thought that we had been doing a pretty good job of let's talk about things, like let's be a lot more open about things. We did not do a good enough job. And I think part of that was knowing, well, this is where mom came from.

This is what grandma and grandpa think. This is what, you know, aunts and uncles say. And so that was a huge piece of our initial story like, oh my gosh, all of those things that I've been told my entire life, they cannot be true. They cannot possibly be true. And I'm going to figure this out. And I'm going to find all the answers. And so I've had a major shift in my life. And I think my husband and my kids because of that as well.

There you go. So how did it go down? I mean, did he sit down with you and just come out to you? Or were there things happening and, you know, it was kind of becoming obvious? No, actually, his story is pretty awesome. My husband and I actually were out of town. We were on a couple's retreat halfway across the country. And my parents were staying with my kids. And so at the time, he was 16. And then my younger kids were 13, 11 and nine. And so he we were gone, like literally

had not even been gone 24 hours. And I get a phone call that first night from my mom. She's Connor's missing. We can't find him. Right. It's like the thing that no parent ever wants to hear ever. And so I was like, well, you know, have you called so-and-so? Have you looked, you know, has, I knew his sister was up. Have her look on, find my friends, right.

All the things on the snap my friends right all the things on the snap map like all the things that the kids do and anyway did call the people looked couldn't find him about two hours go past we've called through everybody we can think of and it's mind you one o'clock in the morning Chicago time so it's the middle of the night too for people here and so finally I'm texting him because I knew his phone was not off because his phone was just ringing. And so I texted him. I was like, I'm calling the police. The police are coming to find you. And within a minute or two, he called me and crying, sobbing. And I was just like, you know, what is going on? Are you okay? And he was like,

mom, I've got to tell you something. And I was like, what? You know, I just, are you okay? And he's, I'm fine, but I'm gay. And I was like, well, thank God, because I thought you were dead. Like, I literally was like, awesome. I do not care. I mean, this is fantastic news. So we, you know, my husband, of course, is like standing there. What, what is he saying? You know, what's going on? And I'm like, don't worry. He's just gay. Like, it's all good. Our son is alive and we're going to figure this out. So, you know, kind of fast forward. It was, it was a very exciting coming out. And it was also the, you know, don't tell grandma and grandpa.

So I'm like, you just need to get home. Get home. I'll stay on the phone with you until you're safe. I will call grandma and grandpa. They do not need to know anything. And in fact, they didn't know for another year and a half after that. So, but yes, so that's how it all began. There you go.

And I bring that up because I think, you know think parents need to look for openings, look for signs, and be open to things. I don't know. I wonder how most people deal with their children coming out. And I imagine if they're highly religious, it's really a problem. I think it's much more of a problem if there is, you know, any kind of religion involved or any kind of, you know, rigid, you know, rigid rules are involved. I know from, you know, a lot of families that I've worked with who are much more open in the way they discuss things in their home. Their kids have still still in some cases surprised them with the news they didn't see it coming but it came to them much more in a conversational way so it was like you know watching tv and their child says oh by the way you know and so it's the right, BTW, I just thought you should know. Gips, by the way, I'm kidding. Exactly, exactly.

Okay, right? I mean, and in those moments, it's the, okay. Like, I love you. I see you. Thank you so much for sharing this with me. This is incredible. Is there anything else you want to share? You know, it's very much of what we say on the outside as opposed to how we're

feeling on the inside. Our inside stuff needs to be dealt with somewhere else. Yeah. And there's probably trying to understand as parents, because I think people still try and get their head around this. They're trying to understand, did I do something? Is it me? Maybe some blame and shame? Does any of that go on? For sure. For sure. I think that's a huge first question. What did I do? Nothing. You didn't do anything. This is who your kid is. And so I think that's a big, like getting over that first hurdle of, even if it feels uncomfortable, that's why I always say, lean into that messiness, embrace the messiness because it is messy.

It is uncomfortable, but that doesn't make it wrong or bad. That's a very good point. It's hard enough to raise teenagers because they are going through an identity ego building, sort of cathartic. They're like these people who are you know going from that caterpillar to the butterfly and they're molting and so they're molting their personality they're molting their ego they're trying to find their footing and then on the social and dating and

and you know all the crap they deal with in high schools and schools of of you know competition and popularity and all that noise and then the pressure of trying, of, you know, competition and popularity and all that noise. And then the, the pressure of trying to figure out, you know, there's this world and you're supposed to do everything in it to make everyone happy, evidently. And so it's, it's really hard. And then you, you, you also survived him attempting suicide. Is that correct? That's correct. Yes. Yes. So we had, it was in that first six months of when, you know, right after he came out, and I think in his mind, he thought, well, once I tell my parents, like, I'm done, right. And then, you know, none of us knowing any better, and being 16, and kind of to your point that you just made like being a teenager is hard and then you layer coming out as gay or you know any whether it's a sexual orientation or gender identity that just layers on right and so you know for him he started just going in this spiral because as he started realizing kind of the magnitude and and making these shifts like it just became so big

for him and so he not only you know was dealing with a lot of depression and anxiety he started to self-medicate with marijuana and he also was learning things And this is a big thing that I talk about with parents now because our kids want to know things, right? And if we don't have the answers or if we don't have places to point them to, they're going to find it. And typically, if you are Googling certain things, things that you don't necessarily want your child to find are going to come up. And so that is a piece that, you know, we were like this, like trying to catch up and figure out and we were always like two steps behind. And so he was learning things from places that he shouldn't have been learning things and he shouldn't have been. And so he found himself once we caught up and figured out what was going on, realized that he had gotten himself into a mess of a dangerous,

dangerous situation. And so what we did was basically like cut all access, shut everything down, lock it all down because we didn't know what else to do while we kind of did damage control. And that was like the final straw for him. And so that is when he did attempt to take his life. Thankfully, it was not successful.

And two days later, we were on a plane to California to an intensive residential program out there. And so that was literally a lifesaver. That's awesome. I mean, it's great that they saved his life is my point. A lot of LGBTQ kids go through this. Here in Utah, when I was in my 20s, I owned a modeling agency and an acting agency. So we had a lot of LGBTQ people that were part of the staff and a lot of actors and actresses. And so we, you know, I got pretty familiar with the groups here and a lot of the clubs and stuff that we did business with and shows with.

You know, we had some that were the big gay clubs. And so I got pretty familiar with everyone. And one of the problems here in Utah is the religion has got a chokehold on the state, even still to this day, 40, 30 years on. And we've had it for a couple hundred years, I think. But the suicide rate for LGBTQ people here is really high because the cult teaches people to abandon their family or reject people that won't stay in the cult. And I was one of them as a black sheep in my family.

Because, you know, I was listening to Van Halen worshiping Satan, clearly. Because, you know, everyone knows. Eddie Van Halen, clearly. Van Halen is clearly a Satan. Clearly. Those Sammy Hagar songs about love are clearly Satanic. But yeah, that was the pit. And so I know what it's like to be the black sheep of the family,

but for a whole new level, they kick them out of the house, they reject them, they're leaving the street. And so the suicide rate here is incredibly high. Yeah. And so I've seen what that looks like. It's not pretty. And I've seen a lot of people go down that road and not come back. And so, you know, this is really important that families know how to navigate this and how to respond, how to deal with some of the issues.

And it sounds like you went through those as you tried to figure out how to make all this work as you're trying to get your child growing up and out of the house. Yeah. Yeah. make all this work as you're trying to get your child growing up and and out of the house yeah yeah it was you know it's it's a probably the biggest reason that i do all the things that i do because it was so difficult and i always thought you know if i could make this even a tiny bit easier for another parent or another family to you know not be afraid to ask hard questions not be afraid to talk about questions, not be afraid to talk about uncomfortable things, not be afraid when things don't look like that picture perfect Instagram post, right?

Like, I just, there's, there's so many things that, you know, guests come at our kids all the time, but that come at parents too. And, and, you know, are you doing this right? Are you doing that right? And, you know, what's right, right. Is what, you know, you make as a family. And so having those, like just being really messy. Yeah. And I think people, I don't know, maybe there needs to be, well, there needs to be more training to parents. But that's another story uh but i think i think you know stuff like yours helps train parents to help help them know that you know there's a there's a really high chance i don't know what the odds are maybe we should look

them up there's a really high propensity or chance or ratio that you're gonna have an lgbtq kid i remember seeing you know i i've spent enough time with people that are in the lgbt community that are friends to know that people are born this way. You know, I think one of the most profound things you can say to people who are like, well, they're not born that way, that you just ask somebody, well, when did you decide that you're going to be heterosexual instead of gay? And people go, I didn't really decide. Well, that's the same way for LGBTQ people.

They didn't really decide. Well, that's the same way for LGBTQ people. They didn't really decide either. It's actually something that happens, takes place in the brain, as far as my opinion is. There was an interesting study that they did, 60 Minutes Profile, years ago, so if people want to Google it, they can, where they were trying to determine the difference between kids who grow up and are LGBTQ and kids that are not. And the one thing that we find that was the best way to try and eliminate the variables, because some people would say, well, it was the way they were raised. Maybe their parents forced them to play with dolls or something, and that made them precluded to this sort of sexuality.

When in fact, what they did is they took twin boys, and they studied them, Right. that was they were raised in the same household they were raised by the same parents you know but because they were because because they were both twins and and raised very differently at the same time or very the same at the same time came out different if you will if you want to call it different unique let's call it unique maybe or it's not unique it's very common actually for lgbtq right so what they found was actually there was a high propensity of the more children a woman had the at the very end the more likely there was one to be from the lgbtqi thing what they believe that what the body or the chromosomes and the dna or you know the science of mother nature is trying to do that if if and they found that it actually happened in women that had either too many boys or too many girls.

And so what they found is somehow the DNA is mucking around going, okay, we've put too many of one part on the planet. We need to try and turn this one a different way. And there's something that happens in the brain or whatever it is. Whatever it is, they're born that way, at least in my opinion,

and from the studies that I've seen and friends that I know, I think it's really important that, you know, people don't realize that I fail as a parent. No, no, you didn't. No. And I think, you know, the other thing too, I love that. That's, you know, when did you decide is such a great way to just shut something down right away. I mean, there's no quicker way to shut that down. However, the other thing that I found does work, at least makes them think a little bit or perhaps speaks to their compassion is if you've ever known or watched a kid, a teenager come out, you will know without question that they don't choose

this because the amount of self-loathing that most of them go through and grappling with their identity and all the things like just watching that happen, no human chooses that, right? That's not a choice. So yeah, that's a little longer thing to say. I like yours. I like that. I never thought of it that way. There's so much pressure because life tells you that, okay, what do you do? You get a job, you get married, you date a girl. Schools have their dances for girls and boys and all that sort of stuff. And up until, I don't know, the last decade or two, there hasn't been much support or much awareness for it.

I mean, we just barely legalized marriage sometime in the last 10 years or something like that. Yeah. And people finally came around as a populace to go, hey, we should be accepting of stuff. And there's more diversity sort of training and stuff going on there now. What are some other things that we can touch on the book that can help parents learn to help their child through this process? Oh, my goodness.

Well, a lot of the things that I talk about in the book, it's kind of equal parts how to to support your child in different ways. Right. So it's I build it on four different pillars, embrace, educate, empower, and love. And so the education pillar, as you can imagine, is probably the biggest. But a lot of it is really you as a parent or us as parents kind of unlearning, right, and relearning. And so it's much more like holding that space, like how to hold space for your child so they can grow and develop right well over here you're unlearning and relearning and so there's a lot of i think that's kind of the best way i can describe it is really we all have biases so i don't want that to be a like a finger pointing thing because just naturally we

have them and so what do you need to unlearn what are the things that you grew up with right and i mean i had a whole mess of them and so how do you kind of untangle that and then put in place the things that you you have choices and you have the ability to make your family the way you want it to be right. To have incredible communication, to have really open communication. There's no, you know, when you come to talking about, let's say talking about sex, there isn't the talk, right? It's just talking about things like they're normal humans. You know what I mean? So it's like little, little, I think it's more like in the small moves, the small moments,

the little conversations that you have are so much more meaningful than let's sit down to have this talk and let's make sure we check off this box at dinner tonight. And, you know, kind of those bigger things that feel like the shoulds which there you go you you talk about think in the vein of this how to be a good lgbtqia ally and being an ally with your teen and your child as opposed to just i don't know not being an ally but being a being a good supporter for their mental health and probably for everyone's mental health that's involved, how did it go with the children? You know, I mean, families, you know, they have this extended portion

where, you know, you've got to, you know, there's the other kids there, the impact there, there's the immediate family, grandparents, aunts, uncles, all that sort of stuff. How did you peel that onion or flower, however you want to describe it, I suppose? Well, that was one of our biggest challenges because of the ages of our kids when Connor first came out. So, we initially had the younger two we referred to as the littles for the longest time. And so, we had the information that we knew and the information that we told the littles. And now, of course, they're all old enough to know everything as old enough.

But now we've grown as a family and we are in a place where we talk about all the things and, you know, ask whatever questions you want. And, but it certainly, I think it helped us see things with our other kids so much faster. And I think that was probably a piece of it where we didn't even know what to look for, right? When it came to any kind of mental health struggle, because, you know, most of us, I kind of think, and I say us, meaning let's just say we're all Gen Xers here listening to this portion, having teenage and early adult kids, right? So when we were growing up, we did not talk about mental health, right? We did not talk about any of these things. And I think, you know, at least coming from where I came from, I didn't

know anything about anything. So a lot of this was like, oh, let's, let's figure this out. And let's talk about you're feeling this way. This is kind of what you're going through. Let's find support for that. If I can't support you in that, let's find the support for that. And so learning what questions to ask was huge. Not being afraid to just ask people, like whether it was in our community or as I started to build networks of people, who knows something about this? Direct me to somebody who's a professional or an expert or a podcast or a book or whatever it is. So I think those are the biggest, the biggest things that really help when you have these, you know, younger kids, because it's not just, it doesn't happen in a

vacuum. Right. And you eventually found, I believe a LGBTQ counselor to help him kind of give him some guidance. Oh, yeah. That was one of the first things that actually we were super lucky that we found a family counselor who was LGBTQ. And she was an incredible, incredible help. And we're still close to this day. But then being able to learn the right questions to ask so once you know his first two therapists were not but once he was away and then came back we knew to say this is exactly what he needs and this is what he is wanting, right? And the different supports. So yes, having,

whether the person themselves are in the community or at least have some, you know, you need somebody who has knowledge about it because the first person he saw, I mean, he ran circles around her and just, that was all kinds of fun. There you go. I remember counselors being thrown at me when I was a teenager because I'd left the cult and the parents in the church weren't happy.

So they hired a cult psychologist to put me in it. And I remember being yelled at, screamed at, going, you're doing this for attention. I'm attention i'm like no i'm not i just want to go play with my friends on sunday but you know as it was interesting and i remember what it's like as a teenager running circles oh yeah you can only imagine i mean i look back i actually came across some emails from her a few months ago when i was like looking for certain things for the book and I was dying of laughter because I was like oh my gosh I know what was going on then and the stuff that she was like telling us and that she was telling him and I'm like you know it actually helped this is a helpful tip for parents but actually helped for my parents to come into the psychiatry office after a few meetings i was meeting with a psychiatrist

and and he was just trying to dig stuff out of me and trying to i guess relate to me and as i was a teen i was just shutting down and you know i mean the guy was part of the cult so you know i'm just sitting there going i see what you're up to i'm not i wasn't born yesterday man i don't know why i was born with this ability to see through a lot of things from early not i wasn't born yesterday man i don't know why i was born with this ability to see through a lot of things from early age i mean i knew it was full of crap at three but the after about three visits my parents and i we had this the big wrap-up meeting because the mormons are like hey can you get that kid back in the coal and he because we're getting tired of paying for it and so really really really hands off this this judge and jury isn't weighted in any way shape or form and so we had a big meeting and

it was really weird all of a sudden this person who had never yelled at me through three of the prior things did this performative you know start yelled at me through three of the prior things did this performative you know start screaming at me in front of my parents and telling me that i was doing this for attention which i wasn't i actually didn't want any attention i'm like i just want to go do you know i had a friend i wanted to play with on sunday who was a mormon and we used to hang out and stuff and i'm like i just want to go play with my friend like i just want to hang out and so and so he just literally screamed at me which is very unpsychological whatever yeah and watching my

my parents seeing that and then I got up and left I just finally said fucking left and you know I locked down his team but having my parents kind of see what it was like and what I was going through with them, be, have that done by a counselor that should kind of help them because they, they, they, they told the counselor to, you know,

the counselor called the next day and said, yeah, I screwed up. And they're like, yeah, we, we don't need to do this anymore. I think we see what the problem is.

So it kind of gave them an interesting perspective. Wow. I don't know if that story helps people in this situation. Yeah. I think that is actually a great story and a great point because it is it is incredibly valuable to go sit in either whether you sit in on the sessions or you have a separate conversation with therapists or the psychiatrist because there were numerous times that i was like, yeah, this isn't going to work,

or no, no, you do not know my child better than I know my child. I had someone try to tell me after one meeting with them, and I was like, okay, bye-bye, we're not meeting with you anymore. So absolutely meet with them, and don't be intimidated by the fact that they're a therapist or a psychiatrist. This your kid this is your family you ultimately trust your gut yeah and there there are pitfalls to uh the lgbtqi community you talk about how he got involved with somebody who was 10 plus years older there are people who prey on on very young things and and you know there's there's different levels of sexuality in the gay men market. You know, there's lots of partners that you may have during a year.

I think they have a lot more partners than straight people do. And, you know, there's the breakups of those things. There's the emotional content, the sexual content, and all that sort of stuff. And I think giving them somebody who's in that community, who's older, wiser, and can give them some guidance on navigating some of the traps that are out there. I think that can help as well. 100%. Oh, my gosh. I will tell you two of the best things that we ever did.

So, Connor, now he just graduated. So, he lives in New York City. He went to school in New York City. And his freshman year that he was there, one of our deals was he had to have a therapist. So I, you know, went on the hunt and I started looking and I, you know, finally found this person. And I was like, okay, this is, this guy's perfect. Like I just knew in my gut, like he was the one, but he had a wait list. So I called him and I was like, look, this is what my kid has been through. This is what's going on. You are the perfect person for him. I need for you to make it. I was like,

I drove this guy batty. I mean, I emailed him. I called him. I was that mom. I'm so sorry, all of you people who are rolling your eyes. But that is where the mama barbaric part comes because I was like, this is the person and my son needs somebody to your point, who is older, who is wiser, who has been there. He is gay. He is lives in New York city. Like he had all the things and, and had a background that understood a lot of the stuff that Connor had been through. So that he still sees him to this day.

Awesome. of the stuff that connor had been through so that he still sees him to this day awesome also finding him a medical practice that so he has the actually the entire practice and he's in new york city so the entire practice are gay men but i mean talk about a perfect place for a gay man to ask questions that his straight mother will never be able to answer in a good way right i mean there there are just certain things where i'm like i'd love to be able to help but i honestly i don't know yeah i think that's why it's important for like you say for them to have mentors and people that can help guide them because i mean i've had a lot of friends who are in the gay community, and there are some pitfalls that are out there,

and there's some dangerous, and there's some predators. Wow. And there's some interesting, I mean, it's just, it's a different, it's a different life and different lifestyle. Yeah. And, you know, you kind of, you do need some, you need to need some help. So tell us about what you do. Tell us about your offering.

I notice you've got a community on your website. You've got the podcast and some other resources and stuff that you do. So tell us what you do and how people can onboard with you. Sure, absolutely. So the podcast is available. It's been around for four years. Lots of content there. I think that's a really great

place for people to start if they're just curious, if they, you know, have a kid who is out or a young adult or just want to be a good ally. Amazing content there. And you can access that through the website or any of your platforms, Spotify, Apple, all of them. It's everywhere. I also, so I work with parents and families, I also work with organizations. And what I do with each are very different. So with parents and families, I do coaching. And I do a lot of emailing with people that just kind of like that middle of the night question comes up. So I do have a whole like kind of unique email coaching program. There is the community as well. What I sent to you, which is a great way to kind of get to jump in and see what I do and what I offer and all of the resources is my ally toolkit.

And so there you have I gave you a link for that. The link for it is also on my website if you go right there. As far as organizations, I work with organizations. I do a lot of workshops. So like Lunch and Learns and on very specific subjects like how to be a better ally or how to support your kid when they come out. And it's typically, you know, a little bit of presenting and teaching, a lot of questions and talking. I also do some keynote speaking and consulting as well. So that's all the stuff.

And you can find all of that on my website. There you go. So give us the.com as we go out. And I see people, there's a button on there where people can reach out to you. Yeah. It's chrysalismama.com So, chrysalismama.com chrysalismama.com

There you go. Well, this is really important because I've seen a lot of people commit suicide over this and have their lives destroyed a lot of times because of family rejection. Yeah. And it's heartbreaking. These are human beings, of course, we're talking about, but they're also your family members.

And in the time that they need love and support and care, most of all is the worst time to reject them or create more emotional drama than they could be dealing with in their life. It's hard enough just to be a teenager. Wow. It's hard enough just to be a teenager. Wow. I mean, it's not just to grow the damn hell up. I'm still trying to grow the damn hell up. I can't get it right.

Right? Oh, my goodness. Yes. I 100% agree. Thank you very much, Heather, for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. Chris, thanks so much for having me. This was great.

Thank you. Thanks, Madness, for tuning in. As always, go to Goodreads.com, Forge. That's Chris Foss. Also, pre so much for having me. This was great. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in. As always, go to Goodreads.com, Forge. That's Chris Foss. Also, pre-order the book. You can find it on Amazon or wherever fine books are sold for pre-order. Parenting with Pride, Unlearned Bias, and Embrace, Empower, and Love Your LGBTQ+,

available June 4th, 2024. There you go. Also, go to LinkedIn.com, Forge. That's Chris Foss. Chris Foss won the Tickety-Tockety, and I don't know, there's Chris Foss Facebook. There you go. Also go to linkedin.com for this Christmas. Christmas one on the tickety tockety and I don't know, this Christmas Facebook. There's so many places. Just make sure you find the right one. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe

and we'll see you guys next time.