The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Helen Gordon: The Woman Behind the Greensheet by Rebecca Blakeley

Episode Date: August 2, 2026

Helen Gordon: The Woman Behind the Greensheet by Rebecca Blakeley https://www.amazon.com/Helen-Gordon-Woman-Behind-Greensheet/dp/1475987056 In 1969, Helen Gordon moved to Houston with her new husband, Robert DeYoung. A no-nonsense, pragmatic mother of three with the heart of a musician and the soul of a painter, Helen was determined to be her own boss by owning and operating her own company. It didn’t take her long to find success. Helen started the Greensheet, a free advertising tabloid with classified ads and a list of business services, in 1970. Within eight years, she expanded it to five Texas cities without the help of bank loans. But she lived in a good ol’ boy atmosphere, in which long lunches over dry martinis were the norm and women were generally absent from the boardroom. Even so, Helen was undeterred. She was determined to build a company that would prosper, and prosper it did. By 2012, the Greensheet had grown to a circulation of 650,000 and appeared within four Texas cities. Today, her company is a household name and continues to be one of the most successful classified tabloids in the state. Her irrepressible optimism, sense of humor, and vivacious personality served her well in her personal and professional life. As told by her daughter, Rebecca, Helen Gordon: The Woman Behind the Greensheet is Helen’s inspiring true story.

You wanted the best... You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times.

Because you're about to go on a monster education role. rollercoaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Good folks, Voss here from thecrisvoss Show.com. You know, in the early, since then makes official. Welcome to the big show. As always, the Chris Voss show is the oldest living podcast that still is in existence that gives you one to two new shows a day.

No one else is doing that from the handful of left except us. So please support the show. Give us all the love we need because we live for your love. Go to Goodrease.com for Jessica. Facebook, LinkedIn.com, for Jessica's fuss, YouTube.com, for just Christchisvass, and all those crazy places on the internet. Opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host or the Chris Foss show.

Some guests of the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it's not an endorsement or review of any kind. Continuity amazing young lady, we're going to be talking about her book and story, a memoir of her mother, actually, and we'll get into that here. It is entitled, Helen Gordon, the woman behind the green sheet by Rebecca Blakely. And we're going to follow up with her and find out her amazing story and her homage of writing this book to her mother. Welcome the show, Rebecca. How are you?

Great. Fantastic. Thank you. And give us your dot-coms. Where can people find out more about you on the interwebs? Is there any dot-coms, social media, email, any place you want people to reach you? No. Okay.

All right. Give us a 30,000. There will be a link to the show on the current. Chris Foss Show for the book on Amazon. Give us a 30,000 overview of where the book and what it's about. Oh, repeat the question. Can you give us a 30,000 overview of what's inside the book, please? 30,000 overview. Yeah, just like a general overview. The book is about my mother. It took me a while to convince her to write this book with me. She was the biggest obstacle in getting it started. she didn't think anyone would be interested in her story.

Oh. And she said, why would you want to write about me? And I said, people would be interested on what you've done in your life. She goes, why? I'm not extraordinary. And so it went back and forth like this for 30 minutes. And she goes, now who's going to read this book? And I said, who knows, maybe millions?

She goes, oh, no, I'm not going to do that. And so I said, how about family, how about the board members and family? She goes, I don't know. I said, how about just family? She said, okay, we'll do the book. So would you say she was very modest or shy or? Oh, she was not modest nor shy. Uh-huh.

But she was humble. Okay. She did not need, she did not feel the need to go to the mountaintop and scream her. accolades. Some people, they're really good at doing stuff. Tell us who your mom was, and what is this green sheet for people that may not be aware of it?

My mother was a ball of fire. When she said she was going to do something, she did it. And she did it with flair. She was a piano. She was a pianist. She studied piano since

the age of five. And she was at the time of her death, she was playing Chopin and doing all sorts of things with the piano. But she loved the piano. And she's her favorite part of playing the piano was that she could be the star of the party. Oh.

Because back in the 30s and 40s, you'd get around, and she would play the piano and everyone would be around her singing songs. And she would be the star of the party. And she loved that. but that's as far as she went as far as willing to be a star. And but the Green Sheet, she worked in publishing in Pennsylvania,

and there was a paper, a weekly paper called The Green Sheet, and she liked the name. And so when she moved to Texas, she called Milton Hammond, said, Milt, I want to name, I'm going to start a paper and I'm going to name it the green sheet. Do you mind? He goes, no, go for it, Helen. So she called it the green sheet and she was going to do it very different than Milt's paper. He had editorials and write-ups and she didn't want it to detract from advertising.

So she had hired a cartoonist, an artist. And she put on every other page a cartoon to make it funny. And a by Cracky column that people could read write in their questions to Cracky. Cracky. Now, who's Cracky? That's a wild name. Where did that name come from? She made it up.

And she said, The artist, Oranato Diaka, he would be by Cracky. So he would get letters in the mail and he would answer their problems with a sense of humor. And then we had advertisements. So it's for sale, your furniture, your car, rented apartment. And it was, that's how it started. And from a four page to, once we get to, once we get to.

16 pages we'll start making money. Oh. That took years to do. And where did she start this at? What city was she in? Houston. Houston, Texas. First she started with the southwest Houston.

And then she went to other areas like northwest and southwest and south and north. And Houston is a very large town. Yeah. So we had, I believe, six to eight additions in Houston by the, the late 70s. Oh, wow. And so that grew pretty well. What's in this screen sheet for people that are not aware?

What's the content that's in there that people will find? Estate sales, anything from furnitures to cell phones to cars, and then painters, hands, lawn people. When you needed something done to your house, you could pick a up a green sheet locally and that person would be a local handyman. Ah. I remember I used to, when I was a kid, I used to deliver this. It wasn't like a newspaper newspaper like you would, the main newspaper and it

have articles and stuff, but I would deliver something. I can't remember what I was. It was like had coupons in it and sales and features of vendors and phone numbers. It was kind of like a little, it wasn't like a phone book, like thick, but it was, it was a good. There's a lot of pages in there. And I deliver it, I think, two times a week. So it was this periodical that you put on people's doors. And my job is that 11-year-old was to put the little rubber band on it and all that good stuff.

Yeah, it's a lot of fun. And those things really used to be popular because I think usually they gave them away free, didn't they? Did they give away the green sheet free? Yes, they did. And on the front, it would say, buy a newspaper to read, read a green sheet to buy. And it would be free, really 32 point type, free. And people think, you're giving the paper away free. How do you make any money?

People who advertise in it, pay for their ads, the painters, the handyman, the roofers, and the car dealerships. So we were doing so well that the Houston Post wanted to buy us within two years. us within two years of art. Oh wow. Being in business because I'm going to make a lot more money than that. Go pound salt. Now did your did your mom run this pretty much all by herself and maybe some employees she was the CEO she was she was the visionary behind it and all that stuff? Yes she was she started with a one room and then it grew to two rooms for layout and etc. And it went to three rooms four rooms and then finally the whole building wow that's quite growth yes yeah that's wonderful so she

started this in 1970 but 1970 a woman could not get a loan without without a husband's co-signing she said we're not going to go that route so she just didn't do the loan and she said i'm going to make my money i don't need a bank but then in 1978 she did didn't eat the banks because she wanted to buy a big computer. Oh, yeah. Back then you had to have a loan for computers. They were like $10,000. It was crazy. Oh, a lot more than that. Yeah. It was crazy. So she went knocking on the bank stores and they said, I'm sorry, but you're a woman and we don't

think that we can put our eggs in your basket. And then she was talking to Mr. Johnson with Southwest Bank I think it was Southwest Bank. And she's talking to him and the computer truck drives up and starts making a delivery. He goes, Helen, what is that? She says, that's my computer. Because we haven't given you the loan yet. She goes, but I know you will. So they gave her the loan.

She was the first bank, it was the first bank that she, they invited a woman to their lunch, their lunch. Only men were allowed in that lunchroom. So she's, and Mr. Johnson said, now Helen, you realize you're the first woman in here that's ever been in here. Wow. And she felt very proud of that.

And there's a little story about in the book. Yeah. So she bought her used, and no, the computer was not used. But we had a problem with the computer, but that's another long story. Oh, okay. But it's in the book? So people can read it if they won?

Yes. Yeah. And so give us, give us, and so was she married at the time, or was she doing this all as a single mom? She had gotten married, remarried in 1969. Uh-huh. And moved to Houston with Bob DeYoung. And they, they settled in Houston. and for the first time in decades that she had a vacation, she said.

But my sister and I did the laundry and the cooking of the house. And so when my mother started doing Bob's laundry, he had to tell her how to do it. Oh, because you guys have been carrying the load there for a while, as it were. She was a single mom for many years. So I guess she forgot how to do laundry. I don't know. But she knew how to make a souffle for, dinner. Oh, I'll take that trade off. No, Bob did not like that. Oh, he didn't like suflays? No, he got tired of all this

fancy dinners that she was making it nice. He goes, I just want a nice steak to pay the dinner. I just want nice dinner. So she, so then they started talking about, she said, I can't stay at home and do this. This is boring. And of course, she was never a woman to take care of the curtains when my, they were, she was married to my father either. So that wasn't going to work. So Bob said, I've got $10,000 if you want me to help you start up a business. She goes, that will work. I can do with that. So that's how she started the green sheet. Oh, wow. Isn't that wonderful? She had a lot of gumption. Where did she get that sort of gumption from? Where do you think she, what was the, was there something in her child or did you know that kind of get up and go?

We're of Scottish descent. My grandmother's surname is Douglas and my mother's maiden name is Gordon. So Gordon Douglas is very Scottish. They have a lot of get up and go and get things done type of stock of people. And my grandfather was a kind of a go-getter. And my grandmother was a nurse. And she was, she was a very gentle woman, but she was able to stick by her guns and tell her father that, no, I'm going to become a nurse. Because in 1918, when my grandmother was 18, nursing was not looked highly upon for a female.

Really? It was, you're going to be a nurse. You will see all sorts of things as a nurse. She will see naked bodies. Blood. Blood. Guets and lions and tigers and bears. Oh, my.

Yes. A young, upstanding female would not want to see these things. Really? Nurses are great as women are great at nurses. Yes, but this is 1918. Yeah. Still Victorian thinking. Yeah.

Makes sense. My great grandfather, Moses, Fulton. Moses was your great grandfather, the one of the part of the sea? No, I'm just doing jokes. Moses Fulton Douglas. Oh. He was appalled that his daughter would go into nursing.

Really? It seems so foreign. Would not speak to her. Wouldn't speak to her? Wow. What a crime going into nursing. She didn't care. My grandmother went against him.

She was five foot tall. And my aunt Mary, my great Aunt Mary, she was like 5-8, 5-9. Since my grandmother, Grace, she was going to go into nursing. So Aunt Mary says, I'll go too. So they both went and didn't speak to their father. And because they were going into nursing of all things. Yeah.

It just seems so weird now foreign to think about because you're like, there's lots of women in nursing. And women are nurturing. You want, if I want a nurse, I want a woman nurse because They care for you. They kind of understand. You guys just come in and go, what's wrong with you? Like, yeah, get up, feel better.

Go away. That's what I think. Take two pills, call me in the morning. Men have come a long way. That's true. And so in 1970, it's the same thing, somewhat the same thing as 1918. Because you're a woman, you could not get a loan in the bank.

Yeah. We could not get credit cards. Oh, wow. That's true. Yeah, you couldn't get credit cards. credit cards either. No. I remember when that changed.

My mom had, it was as restricted. My mom would always have to go into the bank and do stuff. But she would sign my dad's checks. It's not like she couldn't do stuff. She'd always go in cash checks. But no, yeah, she couldn't have her credit cards. We're not as fragile as everyone thinks we are. Hmm.

Hmm. So you lay out this memoir of your mom and her journey through this green. And the green sheet becomes really popular in Texas. Is that correct? Correct. Tell us about how that builds out and the success she had there. I started working in June of 1970, and she put me on the phones and in bookkeeping, and I had simple bookkeeping in high school. And I was studying nursing in college. She put me to work right away. And she gave me the list of the checks to write for the people. She didn't put my name on the list. And I thought, because I'm the boss's daughter, I don't get a check.

So I was crying on the way home. Really? Yes. We were sharing a car, so we were doing ride share. She goes, what's wrong with you? I said, you did not have my name on the list of people to pay. Do I not get paid? She goes, of course you can get paid.

Put your name on a list and put that much on it. Make it that much. I was relieved. Yeah. She was nice than I was. I would have said, you know that food in the fridge? You know that house over your head? You already paid.

That was grand of her. It was. Yeah. I would have been a jerk. That's why I don't have kids. Anyway, so it becomes really popular there in Texas and it spreads to other cities, correct? Correct. And so I worked there and then I moved into sales, and then I also moved into the

the composing department. Wow. And so I was working in sales during the day. And on Monday nights, we would put the paper together, which is a phrase you use, and we put it to bed, send it to the printer. Yeah. She decided she wanted, I'm working Monday through Sunday, or seven days, six days a week.

And she said she wants to start another paper. I'm like, where am I going to find the time? Yeah. And how old were you when that happened? I was 20. Oh, wow. Beats working at McDonald's. I had to work at McDonald's when I was 18. I was really getting paid by this time. Oh, good. So I was getting $900 a month. Whoa. That was pulling some bucks back in those days. It was. I thought I was rich. Oh, yeah. So I thought you're going to work me to death, Helen. And but see, when she, we first started working together, I went into her to ask a question. I said, mother, she stopped me in my tracks.

She said, don't you ever call me that again in the office? Really? I am not your mother here. I am Helen. Helen at home, but never at the office. Wow. So there was a very distinction between office and home. That's kind of why you're first.

her telling you because you just referred to her yes one time i was in dallas i had a very close relationship with with my mother and i was in dallas and i really needed to talk to my mother but i was talking to helen at the moment and we were talking about business i said helen do you think my mother is available i really need to talk to her she goes hold on let me see if i can get her You guys had a complicated relationship a little bit there. Well, she just put me on hold for two seconds. Oh. And she picked up.

I'm here, Rebecca. What do you need? What would you like to talk about? Is there an emergency? It makes for an interesting relationship. Sometimes working together with family, working together can be a little challenging because there's that layer of complication. The complication is because,

because you have to be better at everything than anyone else because she demanded that of them. Oh, yeah, you wouldn't want to get fired by her own mom. She always made it clear that if you can't do what I assign you to do, I can always give you a broom. Oh. And I'll always give you a job, but if you can't do what I assign you to do, you can sweep the floors. Oh, wow. That doesn't sound like any fun. With probably a reduction in pay.

What was the peak of distribution that she got or some of the markers of success in how wide it was? It was 800,000 circulation. Wow, that is a lot of printing. It is. Yeah. And you got to, at that rate, you got to have one of those big printers or hire some vendor. We did. Yeah.

And the first press she bought was a very old Harris press. and it was used and we set it up and she needed a pressman so by this time my sister and brother-in-law were working at the company and she came out into the sales room

she already knew her answer before she asked it but she said anyone here know how to take apart a car and put it back together again and my brother-in-law raised his hands he said I do because he could do that in a weekend and so he became our new pressman.

Ah, there are some people like that. They're just, they're just good at that stuff. Yeah. I've known, I had friends that do that, and I'm like, you just get bored on a weekend, you take apart your car, and they're like, yeah? Yeah. And you're like, maybe you should find some hobbies.

But that's their hobby. Yes, he enjoyed, Mike Sterman used to enjoy doing that, taking the car and putting it back together again before Monday. Hmm. Yeah. And what do you hope people come away with when they read your book? What do you hope they read about your mom and come away with? When you want to do something, you don't let obstacles stand in your way.

Just because of your gender or your plight and life, wherever you may be, whether you're rich or poor, it doesn't matter. If you have the stamina to stick through something, you should just, stick through it because you can be a success depending on how much you want to put effort into it. Yeah. And it sounds like she had a lot of gumption. It wasn't going to take no for an answer. And she just forced measure made her, made what she wanted to do her will.

She did. And with the circulation, she knew that she wanted to be certified. So we went to a certified company. And we had to go through loops and hoops. but our circulation was verified, verified circulation in a paid newspaper. And a free publication doesn't usually get a verified circulation. So we did. She made that happen.

That probably helps with getting advertisers on board and stuff like that. It did. And we were, if you wanted to buy a car, rent a, get a job, get an apartment, buy household furniture, you picked up a green sheet or the major newspaper. So in Houston, in the 70s, in 80s, you picked up the green sheet and the post and Chronicle. And then, and the same thing it was happened in Dallas, Fort Worth. And you guys just became the biggest thing probably there in Texas when it came to that sort of,

market we did well we were so did she get a chance to read the book and and see the final product no she died in 2010 so i had to finish the book without her oh no so i had some help and they said get all your interviews with her on tape so i did that she got cancer and she discovered it in October and she said no more interviews really and so we stopped interviewing about the book in October but then in at her funeral our Reverend Morley he was the one that bareheaded getting this memoir done he had been after her to get it done for decades he was a very good friend and Reverend Morledge our minister from Bakerstown Pennsylvania was also on our board of directors.

He goes, now, why would you want to minister on your board of business, board of directors? She says, well, you keep us all moral. Oh, that's good. Being morals? Yes. So, a lot of times people in business become immoral. That's true.

There's a lot of people that, you know, power and money corrupts. From the gray to the black. Yeah. I think most people, I think that happens with politicians, especially. Money and power corrupts. ultimately corrupts. What a wonderful story about your mother and her journey. And we always love fighters. We love rebels. We love fighters. We love people that they go after their dreams. They chase their dreams and they won't take no for an answer and they find the resources.

And I grew up that way as an entrepreneur being poor. And there was a lot of sweat equity I had to do. And I got so bad. I remember one time where I was spending, I was within a year and a half, two years. We'd started two different companies and I told my business partner, I said, I live in this office and I just go home to shower and change. And I would literally sleep on the couch. And I had to, my employees with salespeople and I'd have to be like, look, if you're going to bring a customer in in the morning, please let me know because they're going to open the door and they're going to see the owner on the couch sleeping. And I actually talked to one time. I'm like, Why don't we just set me up a dresser here in the office and put a shower in, and that way I never have to go home.

Anyway, but that's, that's the, that's the journey of being an entrepreneur. It's not always pretty. It's not. And people saw us years, people saw it years later. And we had the big 5,000 square foot office, the hundred and its employees. And they were like, oh, this is so great. You was so great, you did this. And you're like, dude, do you know how much top ramen I had to eat for years?

I don't think it was, I don't think it was a year, but maybe the first year, I ate a lot of fast food. And then one of the cars we pretty much lived in because we were 24-hour delivery service. And it's just the gumption that you have. I remember we had to get licensed from our career company with the state. And couriers at that time were, this is before Bill Clinton signed the trucking deregulation bill somewhere in his term. And so we were required to get this special license from the state and Hela insurance and all these regulations we had to fulfill. And I remember we sent our stuff in and it was just a modest proposal. We were driving your own cars.

We couldn't afford like FedEx to go by cars. And they wrote me back and they can't. And they said, no, your application is denied. This is the dumbest application we've ever seen submitted. You guys don't have any investment other than sweat equity. you guys are using your own cars. This is madness. And I still have that letter to this day.

It's framed. And I had to go in and sit down with them and go, look, we're a couple young entrepreneurs. We're going to drive our own cars. We're going to sweat equity this baby. And we're going to have some gumption. And they said, the problem is your prospective revenue and operating is just too low. It doesn't, it's just too low. It doesn't make any sense.

And I'm like, I don't want to lie. I'm not going to say we're going to make $10 million in the first 10, 10, a few years. And they're like, we actually needs to do that. I went in and sat down with the dude. I even read him his letter and he was embarrassed. And so we negotiated a way to get that done and get our license. And the gumption, that's part of the swat equity.

That's part of the journey sometimes. and she was utilizing family and so in equity. And when you're small and you're growing, but you can't just hire employees. She did one thing that was amazing. And I was surprised that anybody took her up on the deal. It came a pound. It was a couple years into the business.

And people were placing the ads and people were not paying hers. Oh. We're going to stop this. We're going to demand payment in advance. This is early 70s. Nobody got services payment in advance, not the doctors, right? Yeah. Now they do.

Yeah. That's just the gumption. And she said, but I'm sorry. She had us all sit in a room and she goes, but I can't, and I can't afford to pay any of you right now. And it might be a couple weeks, but I'm out of money. And I can't get it from a bank. So I'm asking you to work for free. Wow.

And all of it maybe two said that two people said they could not work for free. Yeah. But everybody else worked for free. Wow. And they probably really believed in her. They saw her gumption. They saw her work ethic. If she believed in you, she would make people believe in themselves.

Huh. She got them to, she is, if you listen to me and do exactly. As I say, I will make you successful. It's awesome. I need something like that. And when I was writing the book, I asked her about her being an entrepreneur. She chuckled and she did her little chuckle laugh. She was entrepreneur.

That wasn't even a word when I started out. Yeah. Same with me. When I started out and there was no one talking about being an entrepreneur. It was you work for somebody else. When I turned 18, I just became an entrepreneur without even knowing I was becoming an entrepreneur. I got fired for McDonald's because I had long rocker hair and the guy was religious and he's like, you listen to satanic bands like Van Halen. I'm like Van Heel is not really

satanic, but whatever, dude. I had a long hair and he was offended by that. So they ended up firing me. It's in my book. And I had learned to plaster foundations as a child with my dad in his stucco business. So I knew that trade because my mom would be like, get these kids out of my house for the summer and we go learn. I went home to my dad and he goes, he goes, I go, dad, I got fired at McDonald's. And he goes, you're not sitting around my house at 18. You're going to college here in another year. I had a Pell Grant lined up. And he goes, you need to get out and get a job because you're not sitting around my house. Very different than parents nowadays. Nowadays, they stay in the house until they're 75 or something. But, and so I said, I don't know what I'm going to do. I'll

have to find a job. And he goes, you know how to plaster foundation. all my junk is in the back from when we used to do it. You'll have to go up an account at the construction place. I think he had an account at the construction place still. He's like, you can go use my account and just go out there and you know how to do the job. You just got to go sell it. And yeah, it took a lot of gumption for an 18-year-old to be out knocking on doors of these mean construction dudes. And back then, they weren't formal and nice and big corporate like they are now.

These are really rugged guys who were, they were building one house at a time. And so, yeah, just the gumption that it takes. And back then, I didn't know as an entrepreneur. I thought it was kind of cool. I was the CEO and my own boss, but I had to make it all work. And nowadays, there's a lot of more support for entrepreneurs. Everybody thinks they're a CEO or entrepreneur at this point. But, yeah, when it's back in those days, people weren't encouraging it.

You should go start your own business. You're like, are you crazy? So I love your mom. She seems to have a lot of gumption. And it sounds like she had some great leadership skills. And she saw the vision of people and making her community better. She just wanted to make her own money. Yeah.

And be her own boss. Yeah. And that's a good place to be. That's all she wanted. Yeah. That's all I want either, Athens. And she said, and I know how to do it right. And that's when the challenge is being an entrepreneur.

We don't work well for other people because a lot of times their ideas are dumb. One thing I did learn from her is to be a good leader. You also need to be a good follower. Oh. Because if you cannot follow, you cannot leave. That's a really great point. That's a really good point. And because while you're learning, you have to follow.

Yeah, you've got to learn before you can, you can't just be the master of something without being the apprentice. Correct. Yeah. And there was another phrase that she told me when I moved to Dallas to run the Dallas Fort Worth paper. She said, I was running into some difficulties, and she said, and I said, you have any words of advice for me up here?

She said, trust no, trust everyone and trust no one. That's an interesting concept. Tell us the depth of that. I said, well, how can you do that? I trust everyone and trust no one. She goes, first you need to get them to trust you. So you have to trust them for them to trust you. But you also have to have a doubt of mistrust because inevitably they will do something that is not trustworthy.

You got to be aware of some people are trustworthy and then sometimes they change their mind. They don't think they want to be anymore. where they think maybe there's an element of greed where they can maybe take something that. Yeah, I had one salesman who was working for two companies. He was working for me. And sitting at my desk using our desk, our phone, our building. And he was also working for another company at the same time. Oh, wow.

Getting two paychecks. Wow. They did that during COVID. It was kind of interesting. There were people working for three different companies from home during COVID. But they're using their phone. in their home, not somebody else's But it shouldn't have been doing it. Their bosses

wouldn't like it if they found out. So you guys, you guys did really well. You became the thing in your local community. That's always cool. I remember years ago when I was in California, this would be decades ago when I was in California and

they had this thing come out called Craigslist. And I remember I first, I think I moved to California or Vegas. And I needed to sell or buy some stuff. I needed some services or something. And they go, uh, yeah, everyone uses, I was like, what do you guys use now? Everyone uses Craigslist.

And I was like, Craigslist, what the hell is that? Who's this Craig guy? And then Angie's List came out. Oh, yeah, Angie's List too. Yeah, that was real popular. I think we, I can't remember if we had her on. That's when everything started going really digital. Yeah.

And newspapers around the country were starting to flail. Yeah. advertisers were going to Angie's list. I don't know about Craig's list, but they were going digital. And it takes, to make up for the money you make on print, you have to sell five digital ads to one print ad. So you have to quadriple your sales to make the same amount of money. Yeah, lots of competition.

I could have sworn we had somebody from one of those lists on the show. I guess it wasn't Angie's list. It doesn't come up in our search. But there's one of those other lists. I think it was a contracting list. I don't remember. Anyway, as we round out the show, is there any future books?

Maybe you're right? Like maybe to leadership tips and tricks of your mom? Or is it all increasingly accomplished in the book? It was, I believe I covered it all in the book. Even tidbits of wisdom I learned from my mother and my grandmother. Oh. Because there was a lot of wisdom left.

passed down. I thought I might write a, make that whole story into some kind of fictional novel. Yeah. Making it humorous about my mother, but I've thought about it and then I've discarded it. I don't want to do that. Yeah. People still use the green sheet there in Texas. There might be a lot of people in Texas that would be interested in that story, maybe. I don't know. Yes, it's still digital. And you can still, you can still find it some places. And it's delivered to 7-Eleven stop and goes. Oh, yeah. Major grocery stores chains.

And that's where it was delivered. And we would deliver maybe 10 bundles at one grocery store. Oh, really? Do you ever do any of those deliveries where you take the newspapers? You sling the newspapers? I did at one point when we had drivers not show up. I'd have to. You have to fill in?

Yes, I had to fill in. and I had a 67 firebird, and they stuffed all those bundles in my car, and I was in a dress, and I did not have air conditioning. Oh, no. In that Texas heat. Yes, it was torture. Yeah. And then you're filled with newsprint.

Oh, yeah, you get all over your hands. All over your body. Oh, yeah. And so delivering newspapers is a really hard job. Yeah, it is. I used to do it. I remember we would, and it was like the value paper or something like that. And we used to, my brother and I, we both had the jobs doing it.

And I can't remember the name of the newspaper. But we would have to, they would give us the flat versions of the newspaper. And since we would have to hang in on doorknobs, we'd have to rubber band them and roll them up, right? Yes. And then, of course, we'd put them in our big bicycle bags and they'd be filled with these rolled up newspapers. Then we'd go do our route. We'd spend an hour or two at home watching TV and we'd help each other do our things. Yeah, our fingers would be black and we'd probably smuzz our faces.

Yes. I mean, black from all that ink. Maybe that's what's wrong with me. I don't know. All the lead from that ink soaked into my body over the years. The black of your hands get when you read a newspaper, it's the cheaper ink they're using. Ah, I did not know that. Yes, it's cheap ink.

Yeah, I still like reading a newspaper every now and then. I'll see one, and I'll pick it off, and I miss them. I miss when they were huge, too. Now they're even smaller. They're kind of like a midget size. But yeah, it used to be you get this big thing, and I used to grow up me in the comics. But I grew up slinging newspapers. My dad in L.A., in the late 60s, had bought a route.

And you could buy these things. They were worth money, like a franchise. And it was the coin-up newspaper things that would be on every corner. You put a quarter in or a dime or nickel. And you'd open up, you literally could take all the, it's on the trust format. You could literally take all the newspapers if you wanted. But people take one out. And then my dad owned the route in downtown LA.

And so I grew up, my earliest memories are riding in his big bus, a VW bus, and we'd have these giant stacks of newspapers bound up. And then it was a tough time during that recession and the gas prices for L.A. and so there was a lot of homeless people, drunk people on the street. So he would usually pull up in the car, keep the car running. I'd leap out as a kid and sling the paper. So I would open the box, pull the change, pull the old paper, put the new stuff in, close it, and then jump back in the car before the homeless people could get to me.

Some people are drinking a little too much. But that was my job. And I grew up reading the, I love the comics. I used to, that was the whole thing I love was Sunday comics. You have to count the papers that you picked up. Yeah, you'd have to track all that stuff. And that's part of the verification process. Oh, yeah, yeah.

But it was, it was wild. And when I told people that it was like a franchise area that you bought, people were like, what? And you're like, no, that was a thing back then. Anything that was money making. Oh, yeah. You had to protect your territory. Yeah, you had to get, yeah, and they were protected territories, and it wasn't the LA Times.

It was Los Angeles Herald or it was some secondary paper. It wasn't the L.A. Times. But I think they shared the same printing lot. And so I always had fun going out to the, they'd have those big catering trucks that would come by. And you'd get lunch off the catering truck. So that was always fun. Wonderful memories and of print and story here. Any forthcoming books that you want to promote or things that you're talking about?

forthcoming events or speaking me you might do on the book i'll speak on the book okay but no no more books you're you've got you've got a lot of hours of your mom being recorded maybe you can make a documentary a movie i don't know they they want me to buy they want me to pay to have a script done so everything Everything costs money, yeah. But that might be really big, at least in Texas. People love stories of entrepreneurs and people who endure and succeed. From the Depression to Multimillionaire. I like that.

There's your title. Yeah. And if enough people in Texas know that by name by the back of their hand, they'll show up and maybe dump some money in it. But it might make a great video sort of thing and then play some of the tapes of your mom and stuff. stuff. I did not give videotapes. Oh, but you have some audio, right? I just have audio. And you can make that work in a documentary and stuff.

And then just show her pictures. You probably have a lot of pictures of her, maybe. Maybe she was covered by the newspapers and stuff. She would, I don't know if she would do it deliberate, but she'd love to wear white pantsuits to work. And then she would go into the press room. Something was broken. She had to get her hands in there.

She would go into the press room. and say, what's wrong in your world? I can help fix it. She really believed that she was a help, but she was in her white suit in the restroom. And she didn't have very many white suits after that. That'll do it. Because I remember, anytime you picked up a newspaper, you'd always end up. I definitely read the newspaper today because half it's on my hands.

Yes. It's been a delight to have you on. Rebecca, give people a final pitch out to pick up your book. enjoy a journey through the Pennsylvania to Texas through Helen Gordon. Helen Gordon, wonderful story and a great homage to your mother. Well, thank you very much for coming by. We really appreciate it. Thank you, Rebecca, and it's been fun.

I'm honored to have gotten to know your mom, and boy, she seems like she had a lot of gumption as an entrepreneur. She could tell a story and make you laugh with stitches. Oh, that's my kind of people right there. Thank you for coming on, Rebecca. Thanks a amount for tuning in. Order up her book where Refined Books are sold. There's a link on the Chris Voss show.

Helen Gordon, the one behind the green sheet. And you can find that everywhere where refined books are sold. Thanks a month for tuning in. Refer to your family, friends, and relatives, or else, don't maybe pull the car and come back there. Go to Goodreads.com, Fortresschusch, Chris Voss. LinkedIn.com, Fortress, Chris Foss. YouTube.com, Fortress, Chris Foss.

And one on the TikTok. to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you guys next. You've been listening to the most amazing, intelligent podcast ever made to improve your brain and your life. Warning. consuming too much of the Chris Walshow podcast can lead to people thinking you're smarter, younger, and irresistible sexy. Consume in regularly moderated amounts. Consult the doctor for any resulting brain bleed.