The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Henna Karna Discusses the Impact of AI on Various Industries

Episode Date: February 19, 2024

Henna Karna Discusses the Impact of AI on Various Industries Hennakarna.com Show Notes About the Guest(s): Henna Karna is a passionate tech entrepreneur and artist with over 25 years of experience in leading product innovation across digital, data, and analytics. She is focused on building industry-agnostic capabilities that leverage data technology, AI, ML, and analytics to create risk resiliency and accelerate humanity's advancement. Henna is also a keynote speaker and advisor to boards, providing guidance on AI, digital transformation, and diversity of thought. Episode Summary: In this episode of The Chris Voss Show, host Chris Voss interviews Henna Karna, a tech entrepreneur and artist, about the world of digital and the role of AI in accelerating humanity's advancement. They discuss the challenges companies face in adapting to AI, the potential impact of AI on creativity and job recruitment, and the ethical considerations surrounding AI. Henna also shares insights on executive leadership and the need for organizations to embrace digital transformation. The conversation explores the future of AI and its potential to revolutionize industries such as insurance and climate change. Key Takeaways: AI can be a powerful tool for organizations to gain a holistic perspective and make more informed decisions by leveraging data and analytics. The introduction of AI in job recruitment may lead to more efficient processes, but it also raises concerns about the potential bias and lack of human judgment in candidate selection. Executive leadership needs to embrace AI and digital transformation to stay competitive and drive innovation in their organizations. The future of AI lies in its ability to enhance creativity and problem-solving by providing new perspectives and insights. AI can play a crucial role in addressing global challenges such as climate change by analyzing data and providing solutions for a more sustainable future. Notable Quotes: "AI itself is not its own being, it's a multitude of people that are contributing to that." - Henna Karna "We need to make sure that AI is used in a way that aligns with our values and ethics." - Henna Karna "AI can be a powerful tool to mitigate risks and enhance decision-making in industries such as insurance." - Henna Karna

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. This is Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com.

There you go, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the show. We certainly appreciate you guys being here. When every lady sings, that makes it official, ladies and gentlemen, live on the Chris Voss Show. As always, we certainly appreciate our family being here. We bring you the smartest people in the world on the Chris Voss Show for 15 years. And we just did the numbers in the last four years. We've increased the downloads on the show 1,405%, just the last four years.

Not even counting the whole 15 years, but we changed the format four years ago. So thank you for sharing the show, listening, and being in the engaging audience that you are. As always, we're here to share with your family, friends, and relatives. Go to goodreads.com, 4chesschrisvoss, linkedin.com, 4chesschrisvoss, youtube.com, 4chesschrisvoss, chrisvoss1 on the TikTokity, the only place we are in the internet. Amazing young lady on the show. We're going to be talking to her about AI, artificial intelligence, data analytics, products, solutions, digital evolution, and all things that are happening in the world of tech today. Hena Karna is joining us on the show. She is a passionate tech entrepreneur and artist at heart with over 25 years of

experience in leading product innovation across digital data and analytics. As a mission-driven individual, she focused on building industry agnostic capabilities that leverage data, technology, AI, ML, and analytics to create risk, resiliency, and accelerate humanity's advancement or AI's advancement into AI's detriment or humanity's detriment. I don't know. It's going to be interesting to see how it all works out. Welcome to the show, Hannah. How are you? I'm very good. Nice to have you. Great intro. There you go. We need to accelerate humanity's advancement because we got some competition, I think, from AI. So give us your dot coms.

Where do you want people to find you on the interwebs to learn more about you? I've just slowly started a website trying to bring together some of the things that have happened in the last couple of decades. And that would be henna at karna.com. So it's just my name. And then, of course, LinkedIn is another place to go. And there's on LinkedIn, you can probably find me through a couple of groups that I'm part of. So there's a Women's Entrepreneurial Group. There's a Creative Instruction Lab Group and a few other boards I'm on as well.

So for sure, there's two ways to get to me. There you go. So give us a 30,000 overview of what you do and how you do it in your words. That's a great question. So let's start with digital, the world of digital that we're i'm not a native to digital and i'm close to 50 almost so definitely not one that grew up with the phone next to me still remember you and i remember dialing the phone and the yeah when people called you picked up and you said hello who is this but now you know i'll listen So from, I think, the world of where we had IBM punch cards all the way to where we are now,

there's organizations that are trying to shift to get to be very digitally heavy. And that meant, in some cases, being very tech savvy, being AI savvy, using data differently. So I love that space. I love the space of where we are bringing organizations or capabilities into the world of digital. And at the same time, pulling together the right skill sets, the right human beings, the right individuals to make that happen in a scalable way. So I kind of marry people, technology, and I don't want to say process, but what to do with that? What do we create in terms of value with that? That's what I do on a day-to-day basis. There you go. And you do speaking and keynotes where you share your expertise with people? Yeah, more and more. More and more, I'm reached out for board discussions. Sometimes at the board

level, I'm on a couple of public boards. And oftentimes, there's a lot of dialogue about what to do with AI. How do we get educated on AI, what's the right process to take, you know, how many consultants do you bring in, what kind of people do you bring in, all of that stuff. And then for sure, there's a lot of keynote speech on the space of risk. Risk and insurance was the last 15 years of mine. And then there's a whole discussion around diversity. And not a gender or physical diversity, I mean, much more technical diversity. How do we think about a lot of things differently? Same problem, but solving in different ways.

So diversity of thought process. There's a lot of discussions on that as well. Diversity of the thought process. Yeah, we're going to need more of that. We may need diversity hiring support so that AI will keep hiring humans at companies. Very possible. There you go. We we're gonna get more and more creative the more ai heavy we become so on that topic of jobs i i hear that more more and more job recruiters are going to be using ai where basically ai is probably gonna look at your resume first and take the human choice out of it,

which is going to suck for me because usually I bribe whoever it is that I need to hire me for a job. No, I don't. No, no. It's not that far right now, actually, Chris. There's like these systems, right? Most companies use these systems to like look for the keywords or whatever. Yeah.

So now you'll have maybe something more intelligent than just a keyword search that actually can look at the context of what you're saying. Yep. This is why I've worked for myself for 18, since I was 18, is because I'm unhirable. You also talk about executive leadership as well. Any touch on you want to talk about that? Yeah, this is more out of experience and a lot of time being spent with HR departments and every organization that I've been part of, partly because we tend to look at the gap of skill sets and executives as something that is not easy to close. So we hire more.

And when something is different and you come in, you know, Gen AI is a great example. We're going to look to hire people with Gen AI background. That's an immediate reaction. And when we think about executive coaching, it could be the opposite. It could be that we have to now figure out the internal model of internal training, internal upskilling, letting the individual be in the driver's seat as to where they want to go in that space. We don't do too much on that in industries. And I think that's a bit of a myth. You know, the technology can help us learn as much as we can hire the next person to learn as well. We need both. I think we need both.

So you're finding a lot of boards, a lot of companies are kind of trying to figure out how to gear this approach to AI. There's so much of it. And the skill and speed of it is just relentless like i i remember adapting to social media when it first came out and it it didn't seem like it was that big of a deal at least not for me i i understood it the social media i mean duh but for some reason some people needed books and everything else for it but this is accelerating in a fast i think what did you just barely hit a one-year mark for it's gone past netflix and a couple other yeah big you know big evolutions in our in our day and age feels like three years to me and i'm still trying to figure it all out and there's so many different

you know every day just new stuff hitting and it's moving so fast so you help the companies and give them advice on how to navigate this. You go out and speak on it. What do you see the biggest challenges companies are having right now with trying to figure AI out or adapt to it? Yeah, there's definitely a fear component, Chris. I'm not a historian, but oftentimes we look at history and we see anything that's a dramatic change. It's kind of met with quite a bit of resistance or distrust, perhaps, or maybe even more than that. The lights sort of concept, right? Revolutions where people die, not evolution.

Yeah, I think there's a bit of fear, but the way to mitigate that is to recognize there's a, there's, I think of AI as three major sort of, you know, stages of where we're going to be headed. We're going to end up using the ecosystem more. So when we use it, so if I'm like a, I don't know, a finance executive, I'm going to be able to lean on different parts of the components of the finance ecosystem more actively because AI is going to give me that speed, that sort of holistic nature of things. Before manually, I have to do it all together. So manually, we run out of time all the time. But if you use AI for that sort of evolution,

I can gain perspective from so many different parts, bring it together really quickly. I might actually have a much more holistic lens than I did before. So it's going to play the ecosystem much better. That's one major area. I think creativity is going to be a big area for the second one yes generative ai it's helped me be more creative you know you got people writing whole books with generative ai and publishing now and amazon kind of starting to have a problem with it

because they're just flooding the system and sometimes they're they're just recopering books that were already made but generative ai helps with that too yeah but you know for me like i can put something in that i have a thought process on it can help me flush out the thought process for a book or something i'm writing on an article it can help flush it out and kind of expand my original concept of ideas and then i you know i move everything into my words but you know it's kind of if i get stuck like if it's you know you get stuck on a concept or idea one thing that was kind of interesting i thought about we we have a lot of people that come on and talk about a on the show for some reason it's popular i don't know the it's like it's almost like it's a thing now

but one thing that someone brought up that i didn't get to flesh out on the, on the earlier show was that even like lack, lack, lackluster or your bottom level employees, they can kind of use AI to cheat where they can make it look like they're creative and they're, they're coming up with lots of ideas and doing stuff. And I'm like, well, isn't that kind of bad? Cause you know, maybe they'll get ahead of the really truly creative and talented employees that you have. You won't be able to figure out who to fire anymore. Yeah, there certainly could be a masking of things, right, at the onset. But that just gives us the ammunition to think about how do we look for success?

What's the measurement? What's the KPI look like? What's a really good outcome or output? In today's age, maybe pre-ai it was different and post-ai now it's going to have to be a little bit more you know fine-tuned as well so we should use ai to figure out the kpis of the ai that use the capabilities that build the other stuff initially i think do you think we need to be able to identify ai better so that we can separate who the true creatives are like recently there was a

a young lady who published a book that won a book award of some type somebody have to google it but basically 80 of the book was written by generative ai and 20 was by her own creative hand by her own admittance and she she was using to be creative but it was pretty she was pretty much letting her write 80 of the book and she won a major book award right probably against other competitors that were creatives that you know wrote their own work and i know what that feels like writing a book so what are some of your thoughts on that and do we need to have like an asterisk kind of like you know the hall of fame baseball where you know during the steroid era, they had to be like, well, these guys really kind of cheat a little bit. I think that's a really good point.

We know when we do research, we do references, right? We always have a there's a way to validate or verify what we're saying. It's not just Hannah said so or Chris said so. Chris, you might have the right to do that. But, you know, the reality is we want to know that it was anchored on some other things. It had a precedent. So AI is something like that. When AI brings it together, it is a slew of other voices that it's collating.

The reality is we should be able to give credit where it's due, you know, where the roots were of that idea. And maybe we can't create the root all the way down, but now we can say we used an ai from these different sort of plethora of inputs that co-related something like this i think that's very important because ai itself is not its own being it's a multitude of people that are contributing to that yes it's it's it's brought it all together but that that book is not standing on its own right it's standing standing on so many other inputs.

So yeah, a reference or a footnote or even like some many footnotes that go across the areas in which she used it, I think that would be pretty powerful. And it would be better to her too. It would be good for her to see that as well. Yeah, and it would be good for, you know, like in competition to be able to say,

hey, you know, if you're going to win New York Best Time Seller Book of the Year or whatever the hell, you know, there needs to be yours. The playing field needs to be leveled, I think. I don't know. Maybe I'm, I kind of feel when I say this, like I'm some old guy, you know, I'm Clint Eastwood on the lawn spraying the kids. No, it happened with art. It happened with digital art right yeah when when we first started looking at I mean comic books for example I just met recently a a woman that has does does the comic books by hand so she's still gradients like everything is done it's beautiful but yes it's a lost art I don't know you know the value of that particularly from

an economic standpoint but it's incredible work and if i look at her work and what we print today i couldn't tell the difference yeah but you know there's got to be value in the fact that she hand does all this right there's something something to be said there yeah and i i the hope is from what we've talked with ai people is that our ability to create as humans and use ai to create will make it so that we're not replaceable by ai as much and i'm sure that there's certain jobs and different things that are going to be replaced by ai but maybe it will usher in a new value where we where we find our ability to use it as a way, like I said, I use it to expand my creativity more.

Sometimes it comes up with better questions for guests on the show than I would come up with. That's all good stuff. Yeah, we'll use it as a cheat. I'll change my car, update my Mustang. It knows that too. Yeah. One of my dogs is going through cancer right now,

and one of my friends, I was talking with one of my friends who has had several dogs go through this experience. And so I was getting counseling from him because he's been through that. And unbeknownst to me, he started jamming all the data from the, you know, the analysis that we're doing and the tests we're doing into chat GPT. And he started having a conversation with him to give us feedback on the best ways to treat my dog. And that never crossed my mind. I'm like, you're doing what with the dog's data? You're talking to chat GPT? I mean, we're talking to doctors.

What are you doing? But it was interesting some of the things that it came up with, results and stuff. And I mean, I just never would have thought of that application at all. That can be a little scary, Chris. So Google, one of the things I learned there was Google is overly conscious of the fact that it can be potentially, someone could say to chat GPT or some some system you know my

my son or daughter has 102 fever what do i do what's the time what's the right number of tylenol to give and or more trim which one do i give and those kinds of questions become very difficult because if they require several other pieces that of course that system may not know to ask so yeah i recommend give them five pounds of cocaine it'll be fine or or it may it may i mean now we have it i think google's in sort of the response has often been that's a question that we should go to a professional for what we know that's what we don't do so it does sort of disclaimer that and maybe we have to know as human beings when to to lean into some directional information with AI as opposed to a decisioning criteria with AI. AI, I think, is more directionally used right now. One thing I would

maybe suggest to think about with our listeners is that when we're an organization, there's a lot of discussion around loss of job, right? Because you were mentioning also what jobs will stay and what jobs will go. And in my most recent, the last couple of companies I've helped sort of go digital with, we talk about these four kinds of jobs, right? There's one of those is like these rote activities. They do the same thing every day. It's not nine to five, but it's one of those things where it's a very process heavy. It is manually intensive process heavy kind of job.

So we call them manual jobs. The second one is a build up. Manual jobs can become more like a builder. So they can take all those pieces and they can start to build things, build products, build solutions, build something. They're physically or intellectually creating information or building something, an asset of the company. And the third pillar that we look at is people who are consuming those things. So they're like the analytically savvy people. They're taking the building, they're building information out of it. They're getting

like, I don't know, a customer point of view out of it, or they're figuring out the next customer company strategy. They're doing stuff out of that. So they're analytically savvy. And then the fourth are the ones that are at the highest level executives that are making it go you know i i know all this stuff now now i'm going to you know move in this direction of this region or this company or this area and they're actioning all that stuff and today on average and i'm generalizing this is a very linear approach chris like it may not be the same everywhere but on average most' jobs are in the first two, if not the first one. And so, broadly speaking, in all the industries, holistically, it's the first two. They're manually and they're analytical.

And then when we have AI applications, what we would love to see is organizations have more analytical people and more heavy on the, I know what to do now. Like, I've got all this stuff ready. I know what to do now. I can be more all this stuff ready. I know what to do now. I can be more actionally oriented. I think that movement is going to be amazing. So less, less manual, more builders, more analytical, more sort of, you know, ready to execute on vision. That's what we want to do anyway.

I think that's what the fun is anyways, for the most part, for most people. There you go. Maybe we can have an AI that goes into unnecessary team meetings and you start putting in the conversation and then it monitors the conversation. It's like, hey, we can cut this short now. Here's the answer. And just say we're going to do it.

Just like this one. It should summarize my answer right away. But then it wouldn't be such a fun conversation in the human aspect of going back and forth. So, yeah, it was just announced. This is on LinkedIn News again from an hour ago, but I believe this was announced yesterday, OpenAI and Ferrell's AI-generated video. So they've kind of joined that crowd now. I know there's a few other vendors that do that.

What are your thoughts on OpenAI specifically? Are these guys really the true leaders, the future Googlers? I know that there's something we talked about in the green room also a day or two ago. They announced that they were going after Google search, basically, which is take a shot at the king, if you will. I think there's so much room for so many great things to do, and so many companies have a lot to contribute and there's the playing field is extremely broad right now and there's a lot of room to to invent and innovate and and you know pay it forward so for sure there's a lot to be done and there's i think we need all all the high-tech companies out there to start thinking about what you know they are already

thinking about you know how do we make it more useful, more consumption ready, easier for everyone to sort of, you know, lean into it. Of course, you know, ethically all viable and that's a big thing. It's going to become a big regulatory discussion and strategically, but security wise, right? You know, how does security play into all of this? There's a lot to be done in this space, to be honest. Yeah. You bring up a lot of great topics, the security aspect of it.

It's really crazy. We had someone on the show who wrote a book about this, and they basically took Darwin's Origin of the Species, I think it is. Oh, yeah. Survival of the Fittest? What's that? Survival of the Fittest, something like that. Oh, yeah. In the... Survival of the fittest or... What's that? Survival of the fittest, something like that. Yeah, basically.

And so what they did is they took origin of the species and they aligned it with what we're doing with AI. And their identification was that AI is going to become eventually its own species. And basically a species that may or may not compete with us. I suppose it's up to it, whatever it wants to do. And so, you know, some of his concerns he brings up is, of course, tying AI to weapon systems where it can make decisions that normally are held by human beings right now. So, you know, to launch a nuclear weapon, et cetera, et cetera.

And he talked about, you know, a lot of different paradigms. What are your thoughts on that concept or theory of AI being its own species eventually or now? It's a hypothetical. I would say, what do we define as species? In our mind, on a typical basis, we think it's an organism where, where bacteria organisms, electromagnetic, but we're also, you know, organisms that are biologically evolving. And in that model, I know AI is not an organism that's biologically evolving.

So, so with that said, I mean, right now, one of the third, we were talking about the uses of AI. So yes, ecosystem creativity, a third one is going to be sensory. Just what do I wear and how it affects my body, how I do when I'm running track versus something else. All that's going to shift. And, I mean, it's not mutating into our DNA, but it's certainly something like that. So, I don't know if it's its own species, but it's going to help our species. I think he doesn't define it, though, by biology, but by being its own species in this sort of same vein where it's its own. It evolves on its own.

Yeah, it evolves on its own. His thing was, us as humans, we're limited by, I think we're limited in our view of life because we our number one paradigm is to breed and survival of the species propagate the species you know that's what our universal paradigm and most biological species or animals whatever you want to call it they're driven by that you know everybody's here breeding the snakes the lions tigers the bears you know and that's kind of you know what we do you know as a man everything we do everything we do to buy we do to impress a woman make her happy propagate the species create a family etc etc and um the the the issue the thing he brought up with AI being its own species that will evolve and develop itself,

eventually, I don't know if it's quite at that point yet, but eventually, the concept is that it will turn that curve. It won't be limited by any of that. It's not trying to get laid in the backseat of a car on prom night. It's going to be thinking about things that we may never have even really considered as human beings which is kind of extraordinary when you think about our run but you know it will probably be thinking about stuff and you know and it may look at us and just go you guys are really annoying and you smell bad well and and we what do we you know we are based on fear we're based on food exactly right that's the thing that

we are life our day-in-a-life sort of evolves around and i wouldn't have may not have any of that it doesn't need food for sure so yeah and you you you nailed it right on the head there we had a gentleman on the show talking about ai just two days ago oh it was it was it was actually mark grainy who's written for tom clancy novels and he writes novels for the gray man novels but he went and saw military drills that were run with ai planes where an ai is in control of the plane and there's no human being behind that plane and these were running a test facility there they don't have them out running around yet. But it was a simulator. And the attack mode of the AI plane, not having to think about,

geez, I have a wife and kids home. Should I eject? Do I want to preserve my life here? Or do I want to win this dogfight? They found that the aggression level of the AI far exceeded far and beyond humans aggression level. Like it had no, and it doesn't,

it doesn't have, it doesn't need to worry about G force when it turns a plane. And they found that the aggressive level against some of the best pilots that the, the, whoever this was, the air force or whatever, put up against it.

They were beating them like a hundred% to one in dogfights because the AI didn't have to worry about itself, didn't have to worry about its family and kids at home, didn't have to worry about preserving a life, didn't have to take that extra second. Yeah, didn't have to take that extra secret, didn't have to hold its breath to contain the G-forces so the blood doesn't go to their body and stuff and pass out.

And it literally was just aggression, aggression, aggression, aggression, aggression and dominance. And they just looked at it and they just went, holy crap. It just changes the face of war and everything if you think about it. Well, and there's a good to that and there's a difficulty part to that too, right? So as long as we're fighting for the right thing, it's a great weapon to wield. And then the question then becomes, you know, how do we decide what that is? But those are great moments where we can lose less of our humans, you know, in scenarios where there's already such great loss in such situations. So that can be beneficial.

Definitely. And then, of course, we have people on the other side, China, Russia, that are pursuing the same sort of thing. And, you know, while we may not be tying them to NORAD or to missile systems, you know, who knows what these idiots will do, right? The question, it's like any computer will do, right? The question, it's like any computer though, like any video game. It's like that, not to simplify it,

but if I'm the person who's playing the video game and I'm the one that's controlling it and I'm the good guy, I think I'm the good guy, I get to do the right thing. Yeah, trying to do the moral high ground. Exactly.

And the other person is just like, yeah, well, what are any costs? And so it was kind of extraordinary to me to think about all these different things. You mentioned something about ethics and rules and regulations, and we call it maybe you have to get on the same page. Maybe we need to have some sort of UN or something of AI. But, yeah, it's such a wild west right now and everything else. What are some things that you want to talk about that we haven't touched on? You know, one of the things that's been on my mind, I think is, you know, how does,

when we, on the event of, on the topics of AI, you know, how do, how do we see the best use cases out there? That's a really big you know common question and it's always covered by we need to create efficiency in some organizations or we need to do things faster we need to do things you know quicker everything from like writing essays or writing books to whatever it might be and i i wonder if there's i don't know what your thoughts here are chris but i wonder if there's a way to think about it much more around what are the things that we really didn't like to do as human beings anyways? And it's not writing books. I think a lot of people actually really like to write books. But one of the things that we didn't like to do, and how do we use AI to start to resolve some of those very quickly? So something that's more

meaningful, like for example, we know climate change is a really tough one. There not enough effort being put in it probably will never be enough effort putting it how does ai start to become our arms and legs and our sort of brain power in that space which there's enough not enough of us doing stuff about it so you know is there a mechanism where we can sort of encourage or motivate organizations to start to lean on ai for the things that people will they don't make it that people will, they don't make it the extra time for, they don't work on the weekends for. Those are the things I'm really thinking about. You know, risk is a lot of, when I think about the risk space, a lot of that comes up.

There's a lot of things that are associated with risk that we don't have time to think about because we're busy doing other things. Cyber risk, for example, I just had a colleague that got hacked by his iPhone and all the bank stuff was taken and the accounts were frozen. So now I'm wondering, how does that happen? And how do we create,

how do we use AI to sort of mitigate these things? Do we create fake simulations that are just going to evolve faster and faster? They're going to be fake, so they're going to allow us to be smarter about how to really recover from a fraudulent activity like that. Things like that. I wish we would

spend energy on those topics. That would be pretty cool. Hopefully, somebody's working on it. It seems like everyone's got an AI. A lot of people. My dog's got an AI startup at this point. You touched on something about industry and climate change. You've done some advising, I believe, to the insurance industry and their loss and underwriting. We're starting to see crazy stuff in the environment that it's really hard to, I think at this point, argue.

I guess there's some people that are going to still be Star Wars about climate change. But some of the crazy stuff we just saw in this recent month in California, hurricanes landing and just weird, these floods in California and you're just like, wow, okay. It's really starting to become hard to deny this stuff. But then again, AI may just be like, wow, okay. It's really starting to become hard to deny this stuff. Then again, AI may just be like, hey, I know how to fix climate change.

Get rid of all these damn humans that are polluting the planet. Well, I think we're the authors of this AI for now. For now. Until that book comes to life. One of the things I tell insurance organizations but oftentimes any

financial services organization that you know didn't grow up digitally digitally aware I guess I don't know this will make sense to you Chris but let me let me take a crack at it and you tell me if it's too too verbose I I'm a mathematician so oftentimes I think of x y axes right on the x-axis is like the reason why companies exist. They're why. They build products. They do services. All their whys. And on the leftmost side is like their version of their why.

I'm very good at this, so I build these things. And on the right-hand side of that X axis is the customer's version of their why. Actually, I knew you'd build this thing. And they're kind of like on the end. And then you have this world where in a digital company, there's a Y axis that's been introduced. And that Y axis is around, you know, not the why, but the when or the how. You know, when do I meet? When do I interact with a company?

How often do I interact with a company? And so if I'm a digitally enabled company, I'm living at the top of the Y axis and I'm 24-7 aware.'m bi-directionally interacting with my customer i'm actually like doing what you're doing we're we're talking we're we're interacting and that ai is going to be so useful for that because no human being is there 24 7 but the ai can be and on the very bottom these are the companies that are you know i renew i i knew renew my insurance or it's auto-renewed or whatever it might be, but it's once a year. It's very infrequent. In fact, I don't even know what I'm renewing half the time.

It's just a policy, right? It's just auto-renews. And if I have a claim, then I go look into it. So it's very transactional. And we want these financial services companies broadly to be on that upper right quadrant. We want them to be bi-directional 24-7 around when we need them. You know, they know more about us, enough to help us better, not to be in that upper right quadrant. We want them to be bi-directional 24-7, around when we need them.

You know, they know more about us, enough to help us better, not to be in a creepy way, but to be more, you know, responsive to our needs, our changes in our lifestyle and so on. And we want them to know what we want them to build. Don't just buy, you know, build it and then make us buy it. You know, tell us, let us tell you what we want.

And that world, sort of that digitally enabled world where it's bi-irectional and it's outside in, that's an AI heavy world. And I think insurance companies aren't, you know, we're often worried about what we are good at. And the frequency is very transactional. So we have a ways to go to become a digital company, I think, by the way of engagement, the engagement model. Not because we have an online presence. That's a whole other thing. There you go.

I know that the insurance companies are struggling and they've been pulling out of places like Florida and California. Evidently, California is the one they're pulling back on now too. And I don't see some of the crazy flooding and stuff helping. Do you think AI can help the business normalize and maybe get back on track to where it's good for you? I think it's going to be so, so helpful. A simple example, you know, so a lot of companies that I've worked for and worked with, they have lots of wordings. So if I have a hurricane that hits, I have to know the hurricane wind name

for me to know if I ensured that. So I'm looking it up, you know, like, well, does that house have that wind name or did I cover that thing? And imagine Gen AI going right at it. It would just pull all this stuff together. Yeah, it would be super. I mean, talk about those manual activities becoming much more, you know, analytically ready.

We could do that. We could do that. We could do that now. It'd be great if it could solve cancer for us. That'd be awesome. Maybe it will someday. Who knows? It can get us friends much quicker.

Yeah, it could put all this stuff together. I think at one point there was supposed to be a billion-dollar database for cancer that was announced in the Presidential Commission, but who knows where that is, but trying to get all those thoughts in one place. But, you know, AI could probably pull them from all the different straws that are out there and maybe compile something. Of course, maybe it might just come up with, I know the way to cure cancer, just kill all the humans.

No. You know, just kill all the humans. No. And you know, wipe out all the disease. Sorry, I've watched Terminator too many times, but there's still hope. Hope springs eternal because it's probably all I got left now. Final thoughts as we go out, anything you want to discuss or pitch out to people and how they can work with you, outreach to you, et cetera, et cetera? It would be really great if there are like-minded individuals that are trying to, that are in their stage of their giving back model. You know, they've done a lot in the organization. They've done a lot in their career and are looking to see how they can socially add value

to communities. I would love to meet more folks in that space. I'm oftentimes meeting folks that either are looking to create that economic value, which is, you know, that's very, very important. I know we're all in a business, but it's very important for me to also figure out that network of individuals that are trying to look, maybe look at AI, look at data, look at technology, look at analytics, and go one step ahead, go one step beyond to start to educate others and fill some of the gap where AI could really add value. I think there's, we got to make money.

Everybody wants that. Got to pay the bill. Yes. But we also have to find the right use cases. I'll give you an example. I met a woman that is using AI to create mushrooms that eat trash so that we can reduce our footprint. Yeah, it's fantastic fantastic it's something i would have never thought of but something great to look into so things like that i would love to meet

people like that and then ai won't wipe us out because we're making so much trash they're like well they're they're figuring out their problem through the help of me so we'll keep them around for i don't know that's right We're still the creator. I keep reminding us. Knock on wood. There's still time. So there you go. So how can people reach out to you for speaking engagements, board things, advice, consulting, et cetera, et cetera?

I think my website's probably the best one. So H-E-N-N-A, the two N's right there, and then K-A-R-N as in Nancy A. I know people say karma, but it's actually just Karna. But that's the website. And I think there's a way to link to me from that site and I'll get the email or any questions you have or any advice you have. There you go. Thank you very much for coming on the show, Hannah. It's been a great discussion. Wonderful.

Thank you so much, Chris. There you go. And thanks to Arne for tuning in and AI for letting us do this podcast. Thanks guys. Thanks. Thanks. Yeah. Thanks for our

AI lower or alerts for letting this happen. Go to goodreads.com 4chesschrisfoss LinkedIn.com 4chesschrisfoss chrisfoss1

on the TikTokity and chrisfossfacebook.com Be good to each other. Stay safe and we'll see you guys next time.