The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Home Run King: The Remarkable Record of Hank Aaron by Dan Schlossberg

Episode Date: May 21, 2024

Home Run King: The Remarkable Record of Hank Aaron by Dan Schlossberg https://amzn.to/4apv5Ep In the fifty years that have passed since Hank Aaron hit his 715th home run and supplanted Babe Ruth as baseball's home run king, his legend and legacy have only grown. Humble and modest to a fault, he always insisted that he didn't want people to forget Babe Ruth but only to remember Henry Aaron. Though he never had the benefit of playing in the media spotlight of New York or Los Angeles, he remains the career leader in total bases, runs batted in, and All-Star selections; shares records for home runs by brothers (with Tommie Aaron) and by teammates (with Eddie Mathews); and is remembered with respect and admiration for his outspoken advocacy of civil rights for all minorities. Written by a lifelong Braves fan who became a sportswriter, this book traces Aaron's odyssey from the segregated south to the baseball world revolutionized by Jackie Robinson, who became an early an important ally against bigotry and prejudice. It reveals how the New York Giants nearly beat the Boston Braves in signing Aaron, when the young slugger caught his first break, and why he changed his hitting style after the Braves moved from Milwaukee to Atlanta. Though he never won a Triple Crown or hit for the cycle, he won virtually every major honor, including an MVP award, a World Series ring, and a berth in the Baseball Hall of Fame. But he should have won more, as the author contends he was often taken for granted by voters (nine of whom left him off their Cooperstown ballots!). Turn these pages to find out what home run Aaron considered his greatest, what pitcher proved his easiest mark, and what managers he liked or disliked the most. Even the disappointments are included -- his team's move south, its inability to establish a dynasty, and his quests to become a manager, general manager, or even Commissioner of Baseball. This is also a book of personal tragedy: the death of a child, a difficult divorce, and the stunning loss of the 43-year-old brother-in-law who became the first black GM. Not to mention the deluge of hate mail as it became obvious that he was approaching the most cherished record in sports. Through it all, Henry Louis Aaron kept his composure, preferring to let his bat do the talking. He lacked the notoriety of Willie, Mickey & the Duke but he just might have been the best player in baseball history. He's certainly in the conversation.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. There you go, ladies and gentlemen. There Iron Lady sings, that makes it official. Welcome to the big show.

For 16 years, we've been bringing you the most brilliant minds, the smartest people, the people who tell you the journeys of a lifetime, the historians, the CEOs, the billionaires, you name it. We've had some of the most greatest people on the show, and we continue that legacy today. We have an amazing author and mind on the show. Dan Schlossberg joins us on the show. His newest book is out called Home Run King, The Remarkable Record of Hank Aaron, out May 14, 2024. We're going to get into it with him, find out his insights and what he's put in this amazing tome that he's taken and written. He is a former Associated Press newsman, a lifelong resident of northern New Jersey,

and is one of the country's premier baseball experts, and is the only U.S. journalist who covers travel and baseball exclusively. He boasts a 50-year journalism career that spans the gamut from broadcast analyst to commentator to writer author and entrepreneur he's won awards for writing editing graphic design and public service from the garden state journalists association and the north american travel journalists association and the international travel i'm sorry international association of business communicators he is the author of 40 count them baseball books, founder of president emeritus of N A T J A and the cohost executive producer of the weekly travel itch radio show. I picked up some travel itches when I was in Thailand last time, but that's a different story. Welcome to

the show, Dan. How are you? I'm doing great, Chris. Thank you for having me. There you go. Thanks for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. So I'm going great Chris thank you for having me there you go thanks for coming on the show we really appreciate it so I'm going to have you 40 baseball books give us your dot net dot coms where do you want people to find you on the interweb sir it's dan schlossberg.net so just my name followed by dot net there you go so give us a 30,000 overview of your new book and what's inside it's the most unusual Hank Aaron book ever written because it was not written chronologically. It was written by topic rather than time. I wrote each chapter as if it were a separate magazine article. I am primarily a magazine writer, and I just thought there were certain subjects that needed to be covered and easy to find for anybody who picks up the book.

So that's why it was done that way. Nice. Nice. So now, have you covered Hank Aaron in the past with your books? Many times, many times. In fact, this is my second Hank Aaron biography. I wrote one in 1974 just before he broke Gabriel's record. There you go.

You've been covering baseball for a lot of years. What do you find is your love of the game that keeps you coming back and you love covering it? Every day is different. You never know. I mean, Joaquin Anderhart was once asked to describe baseball in one word, and his answer was, you never know. That was his one word, you never know. And it's true. I actually taught a course at Bergen Community College near where I live called Baseball Ironies and Oddities. And I told my class, every game, every day, you will find something that never happened before.

Wow. There you go. That sounds like my first 10 marriages. So tell us a little bit about you. How did you grow up? What was some of your motivations and influences? Maybe how did you first discover your love for baseball? And then what made you start

becoming a writer? I grew up in northern New Jersey, which is about, oh, maybe less than a half hour from New York City. I could actually see the New York City skyline from my bedroom as a boy, and I used to love to watch that skyline. It was beautiful. And I became a baseball fan in 1957 when I was nine. And my father and I were watching on the old Zenith black and white TV in the living room. He turned down the sound and told me what was going on. The Milwaukee Braves beat the Yankees in the World Series. All my friends rooted for the Yankees because the Dodgers and the Giants were leaving town.

Everybody I know rooted for the Yankees. The Mets didn't exist yet. And the Milwaukee Braves won, and I stuck with them ever since. And Hank Aaron was the biggest star on that team. There you go. There you go. So that gave you the drug, huh? It gave you the hit, the first hit, and got you addicted, huh?

Yeah, that was my baseball steroid. Yeah. So how did you parlay that to becoming a writer and then writing for baseball? I always loved to write and create my own little magazines, whether they were news magazines or sports magazines, just to scotch tape clippings in to write a few articles. I did that since I was a little kid and I still have all of those things, but you probably donate them somewhere. I have no idea where, but I always love to write and create and draw and lay out a design of a newspaper. And I was sports editor of all my school publications, high school, college, you name it.

And that's what happened. Wow. There you go. You just had like a knack for it, I guess. Was there any newspapers that inspired you? Like, I don't know, the New York Times? I guess probably the New York Post. Only because it was a tabloid, easy to read. Politically, they went from a Democratic to a Republican paper,

but their sports coverage stayed the same or better. There's baseball coverage. It's like reading a baseball newspaper every day. I love the sports section. There you go. There you go. So you've got the best of both loves. You design your thing.

Who's the first newspaper agency or news agency you started working with? Good question. You're the first interviewer who's asked me that question. The Passaic, New Jersey Herald News, where my friend Jay Horwitz, who became the Mets publicity director, he and I were college interns at the same time over 40 years ago. Wow. Do you think, when you look at back then, did you ever think you'd still be writing for 50 years about baseball and covering what you've covered? Initially, I wanted to be a political reporter. I actually majored in political science and

journalism at syracuse i had two majors however i kind of soured on the idea when nixon got into all that trouble and i just didn't like him and i didn't really want to be around him and cover the white house but i love baseball and i covered the college team at syracuse which no longer exists by the way they had too many games snowed out but i did cover college baseball and i covered the college team in syracuse which no longer exists by the way they had too many games snowed out but i did cover college baseball and i loved it and that's how i got to the ap you have free job right out of college there you go get with the ap they were going places evidently because they're still there the so as you as you started writing you know you're writing about these legends and and and talking about them what drew you to rewrite again about Hank Aaron and his home run record I had done several books for

sports publishing which is a division of Skyhorse an imprint of Skyhorse and my editor Julie Gantz over there said what do you want to do next because I had just done a huge book for them called the new baseball bible came out in 2020 with an updated edition and we're going to have another updated edition in 2025 but after that 2020 edition came out what do you want to do next and i said hank aaron is going to have this 50th anniversary of breaking the bruce record and it's going to be on april 8th 2024 and julie we're going to have a total solar eclipse on the exact same day so i said the heaven just celebrating and those are my first four words in the book ah there you go that's that's that's good to have then there you go so you you said you

structure this differently where it reads like a magazine and it's not chronological order, if I can learn to say things. I still didn't graduate high school, evidently. Tell us some of the tease-outs that are inside the book that people are going to find. Is there anything new, maybe, information that you're able to uncover, or any revelations? There's a lot new. I found out a lot that I did not know about Hank Aaron, and I was surprised because I thought I knew everything about Hank Aaron. He and I have been pretty close ever since 1965 when I first walked on a major league diamond at Citi Field, I'm sorry Shea Stadium in Flushing New York. I was there

to do an interview with Bobby Bregan who was then the manager of the Braves on sportsmanship and I met and befriended Hank Aaron, and we became friends. In fact, there are pictures in the book of me as a college senior at age 17 interviewing Hank Aaron at Jari Park in Montreal. There are pictures of that in the book. Wow. Your life is like a history book in and of itself for probably all the people you've interviewed and

and and the great talent that passed through baseball during that time in a way that's true chris but i'm different than any other sports writer you ever talked to because i'm only baseball i've never seen a super bowl or a stanley cup playoff or an ncaa final four i am baseball 12 months of the year there you go there you go how's baseball doing these days do you feel with some of the changes they made it seems like the game sped up i like how they got the box there now so that you can kind of see it seems like the game is is moving having the box there has not helped the umpiring it's still pretty bad oh really especially angel hernandez let's not name any names here. When Chipper Jones told me when Angel Hernandez is a home plate umpire at the Braves game,

he won't watch. So that's a pretty strong statement there. But having the box doesn't help, but speeding up the game really does help. However, however, the worst thing, the worst rules change in baseball history is what I call the Manfred man that appears every extra inning. That's a ghost runner on second base. I call it the Manfred

man after the British group. Because it was created by Rob Manfred, the commissioner. It's a disgrace, an abomination. Manfred ought to get out of the commissioner's job before it wreaks more havoc. Wow. There you go. What else is in the book maybe that people might be surprised at that was new that you found?

Maybe some different tease-outs. How about Aaron helping four Democratic presidents win the White House? He campaigned for Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Jimmy Carter, and Bill Clinton. All four of them said without Hank Aaron's help, they would not have won the White House. That's pretty significant. Was it money or was it him going out and speaking and giving his endorsement, things like that? Oh, he made public appearances.

He was actually on the campaign trail in Wisconsin and Michigan. All the states, they're all swing states. He was there. Now, I believe Hank Aaron is gone now isn't he he passed away in january of 2021 that's unfortunate how do you feel he would like the book and your homage to him i think he would like it very much and i'm hoping that his widow billy to whom i sent a copy does like it she gave me a beautiful interview that i turned into the epilogue of the book as the last chapter in the book and she's still a great spokesman for hank aaron and his legacy wow and imagine did you were are there any of your interviews that you did them over the years

included in the book all of them they're all there there were so many interviews so many things i used i did use a little of the information from the original Hank Aaron book, but most of it is brand new. Obviously, the Hank Aaron story stopped when he passed away. But I interviewed him recently, you know, fairly recently when Chipper Jones got into the Hall of Fame in 2018. I called Hank Aaron for a quote. He gave me a beautiful quote about chipper last summer i spoke to john schuerholtz who's also in the hall of fame longtime general manager of the braves and i said john you were the gm what was it like to be the boss of hank aaron and he said no one is the boss of hank aaron said john there you go what do you think sets for maybe those people who aren't too familiar with hank aaron's record and his life, what do you think sets him apart from some of the other greats of baseball? What made him so unique? He was a combination of a contact hitter and a power hitter.

He only averaged 63 strikeouts a year. In fact, Tom Seaver, when he broke in his first year, he fanned Hank Aaron seven times. He never fanned him more than once any season after that. So Hank Aaron learned Tom Seaver. He also mastered Sandy Koufax and Steve Carlton. He batted 362 against Sandy Koufax, 342 against Steve Carlton. Not too shabby. There you go.

And what kind of man would you describe him as when he was in the off season and stuff? And when he was on the field or off the field and helping people, you know, what kind of person was he? He was a class act. He was a civil rights advocate. He really picked up Jackie's torch and ran with it. He was lucky to be in Atlanta because that was the home of Martin Luther King Sr. and Jr., both of whom he knew and befriended. Also, Ralph David Abernathy, Andrew Young, you know, so many civil rights leaders. Jesse Jackson was from Chicago, but he also befriended Jackson. But there are so many based

in Atlanta, and he was very good friends with Jimmy Carter. And in fact, years after Aaron retired as a player, the Carters and the Aaron went skiing together in Europe. And unfortunately, neither of them knew how to ski. Can you imagine Hank Aaron falling down? This great athlete who played racquetball, tennis, fishing, swimming, baseball, football, so many sports. But he couldn't ski. He kept falling. Yeah, that's what I do when I ski.

I just gave it up because it's hard. It's harder than you think. I think kids can pick it up pretty well. So he led an exemplary life. How do you feel about people like him who did it the natural way to become home run record holders and then the era of the steroids and asterisks that came thereafter? And how do you feel about that era? Should those people be in the Hall of Fame or not?

Definitely not. They cheated. They distorted the baseball history book. In fact, let's talk Barry Bonds for a second because he's allegedly the home run king now. Not in my book. So either way, you want to look at that statement. If you look at Barry's record,

that year he had 73 home runs, was the only time in his entire career he had as many as 50. As Doge Barrow would say, Chris, something's not kosher in the state of Denmark. Wow. Yeah, that was, then that was, he was really, he was really on something then and stuff. How do you feel about, we had Keith O'Brien.

I don't know if you know him. He's the New York Times author and the coverage over there. He was on just recently for Charlie hustle, the rise and fall of Pete Rose. And yes, and he called them the last glory days of baseball. How do you feel about the whole Pete Rose thing? Should Pete Rose be allowed in the hall of fame?

Should we, should we let bygones be bygones after all these years? Not unless Joe Jackson gets into shoeless. Joe was less likely to cheat than pete rose did the problem with pete rose he lied for 25 years had he come clean early as andy pettit did and said i made a mistake i used steroids i'm sorry that's all he had to say he would have been in the hall of fame years ago instead he goes to cooperstown an induction weekend and holes up in some store and sells his autograph anyway. Wow. That's, what are you going to do?

Evidently, he has quite the ego. And, you know, a lot of people are successful too. But, you know, there it goes. How do you feel the current sort of, what's the kerfuffle they have with the gentleman who's got the interpreter? There's some. Shohei Otani? Yeah, yeah. How do you feel about that whole situation? kerfuffle they have with the gentleman who's got the interpreter there's some show hey otani yeah yeah how do you feel about that whole situation it's it's a real mystery because for one thing otani rarely talks to the media anyway now he's even less inclined to talk to the media i don't

know who his interpreter is now but the point is how can somebody steal 16 million dollars from you without your knowing it it's true i mean billy Billy Joel had like, I think it was $100 million stolen by Christian Brinkley's brother that he put in. So, I mean, I don't know how you lose $100 million. So, I guess, whatever. But yeah, it's kind of interesting. Baseball just keeps trucking along. And, you know, when I grew up, it was Steve Garvey.

And I was a Dodgers fan because i grew up in la and and now steve garvey was running for office so it's kind of weird and i guess he owes the irs 400 million dollars so or not no hold on four hundred thousand dollars make sure not that bad yeah four hundred million dollars that would be something so yeah he owes four hundred thousand dollars so i'm sure i'm sure he'll figure out how to work it out maybe he can sign some baseballs for him or something. You know, Garvey's nickname when he played was The Senator because he was always glad-handing everybody, very polite guy.

I think I remember that. I was a big fan. And then Tommy Osorio was just so baseball. I've got to tell you, Garvey's the only guy in my career who ever thanked me for interviewing him. And I said, Steve, I should be thanking you for your time. He said, no, I'm thanking you because you did your homework. You asked good questions.

What a class act. Yeah. That is nice. Yeah. There you go. I thought he was great in the LA Dodgers when I was a kid. And I also liked, I can't remember the guy who was with the Oakland A's during that time, but he was like a home run hitter and just a hell of a baseball player.

But I forget his name. So when people come away with a book, what do you hope that they come away with? What do you hope they remember from your book? Well, Hank Aaron always said he didn't want people to forget Babe Ruth. He just wanted people to remember Hank Aaron. That's what I hope they do because Hank Aaron never got the respect or recognition he deserved until he broke the record. And that was a long time of playing in anonymity almost. He was a quiet guy,

humble guy, modest, lacked the charisma or flamboyance of Willie Mays, playing in small market cities, Milwaukee and Atlanta. Atlanta didn't become a big market city until Ted Turner's Superstation and that was after Aaron retired so Hank Aaron was the Rodney Dangerfield of baseball he didn't get any respect I get no respect Rodney Dangerfield what a guy so there you go it's good that you're enhancing his legacy on the it's the 50th anniversary correct yes there you go and it's you're reminding people to hey there's some great people out here and they didn't do steroids and they didn't cheat on gamble that's true so there you go it's good to have these these remarkable people how many movies have been made of Hank Aaron unfortunately

none I was just thinking that I know I can't think of any there are no Hank Aaron movies what the hell is that about I don't know there two movies about Moe Berg so there should be movies about Hank Aaron for sure but he wasn't a larger-than-life legend the way Babe Ruth was. Yeah, but I mean, he still kicked ass and took names in Home Run Legend. You need to get with somebody in your books and get us a movie out. You need to get some options going with Hollywood. I've got two cousins who are actors, so maybe that's not a bad idea. Have you ever saw the show Suits?

You ever saw the show Suits? Yeah. Okay, Harvey Specter, played by Gabriel Macht, is my cousin. Really? His grandmother and my mother were sisters. Yeah. Come on, Spielberg, let's get on this. You should.

You should. I think so. And Stephen Macht, his father, was an actor, too. Oh, really? Yeah. There you go. There you go. Give us your final thoughts.

Dan, tell people where to pick up the book as we go out. And give us your final thoughts and pitch out on the book to the audience. Well, you can get the book from Amazon.com or any bookstore. Barnes & Noble would be a good place to go. And hopefully you'll get it as a Father's Day gift because we're not far away from Father's Day. There you go. Give it to your father. You know, so many people have those relationships with their dad.

They went to the baseball game. And I remember that. what was that scene from? Oh, it was the City Slickers, I think it was. He was like, the only time I could have talked to my dad was going to baseball. I think that was from that movie. And so a lot of people have those memories of their father. So Great Father's Day gift. It's a gift to your old dad, especially if he was into baseball.

You know, I just think America's greatest sport. It's kind of weird how football became something bigger than that. But I hope that baseball makes a comeback. And I don't know. Maybe we can have a double Super Bowl Sunday. We'll have playoffs for baseball. And I don't know. I don't know how that works out.

So thank you very much for coming on the show, Dan. Give us your dot net as we go out. Got to give a shout out to eddie matthews because he was hank aaron's manager when he broke the record and as a player he and aaron hit more home runs as teammates than any tandem in baseball history 863 wow that's a that's a story in itself huh it is and they're both in the hall of fame of of course. There you go. There you go. Thank you very much for coming on the show, Dan. We really appreciate it.

Thank you, Chris. Great being here. Thank you. And please come back for your future books. We'd love to have you. Thanks to our audience for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com, Fortress Chris Voss, linkedin.com, Fortress Chris Voss,

Chris Voss 1 on the TikTokity and all those crazy places on the internet. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time.