The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – How Democrats Can Win Back Men: Why Understanding Male Voters and Their Issues is Vital for Democratic Victory by Mark W. Sutton

Episode Date: July 18, 2024

How Democrats Can Win Back Men: Why Understanding Male Voters and Their Issues is Vital for Democratic Victory by Mark W. Sutton https://amzn.to/46cj7NT "How Democrats Can Win Back Men could be the most important book ever written toward both the re-election of President Biden in 2024 and reversing the loss of men to the Democratic party in the next decades if the people running President Biden's campaign implement its advice..." -- Dr. Warren Farrell, author of The Boy Crisis Democrats have been losing men -- it's time to win them back! A registered Democrat for 35 years, debut author Mark W. Sutton examines voting patterns, Democratic strategy, and policy decisions revealing the urgent need for the party to better appeal to male voters in 2024 and in the coming decades. The margins of victory, particularly in key swing states, have been razor-thin in the last two presidential elections. If Democrats can sway just a small percentage of male voters, they greatly improve their chances of taking both the White House and Congress. Sutton shows how Democrats can reframe messaging and adjust strategic and policy decisions to increase their odds of winning in 2024 and beyond.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. There you go, ladies and gentlemen. There are ladies and gentlemen, that makes it officially official, as they like to say.

I don't know if he says officially official, but it just sounded good at the time. It came out of my mouth. We're going to have an amazing author on the show today. We're going to be talking about his insight into the Democratic, on how Democrats can win back men. We'll get to that book title in a second. But we'll be talking a little bit of politics. And definitely it's on topic because president biden recently didn't have a best night on the stage for the debate and we'll get into some of that details as well so it's

politics day here on the chris fosh show but in the meantime i further show your family friends and relatives guilt and shame them twist their arm a little bit you know not not not physically because that's assault people don't do that don't touch each other you know don't make me come back there and pull over the car the but you know give a little twisting and say hey you know you subscribe the chris voss show because you need to be smarter and you're kind of dumb don't i'll say that don't say that either that's these are all things not to say that's what we're doing on the show it's opposite day so anyway go to goodreads.com for just chris voss linkedin.com for just chris voss chris voss one of the tiktokity and buymeacoffee.com, Fortress Christmas.

Today, we have Mark W. Sutton on the show with us today. We're going to be talking about his new book that came out June 26, 2024. It's called How Democrats Can Win Back Men. Why understanding male voters and their issues is vital for democratic victory. And we need to have one it's kind of coming down to fascism authoritarianism or democracy if you study fascism we had some great fascism authoritarian authors on the show strongman i think it was i forget her last name her name but it'll come to me so mark w sutton is an nba he's been a registered democrat for 35 years and has been passionate about supporting male well-being for 30.

He has produced radio show content for NPR, Air America Radio, and the Mother Jones Radio Show, and hosted the podcast Liberal Arts with Mark Sutton. He's a gender expert. I thought I was a gender expert, but I haven't seen them all. There could be more than one. I haven't seen them all. There you go. I've only seen the two genders, so I haven't experimented outside of that.

Although there is the internet. He's appeared on MSNBC, CBS Radio, and served as a guest host for the TV show Men's Net. That sounds like a jockstrap. I'm sorry. I just had to do that joke. It sounds like a thong. Men's Net. Coming to you at Chippendales and Thunderdown coming later in this thing.

I'm not going to Google men's net. Mark is also passionate about economic justice, having worked in the field of community development, financial institutions, supporting low-income communities, and individually focused on social outcome data and policies, consulted for many male-supportive nonprofit organizations. Welcome to the show, Mark. How are you? I'm great. Thank you so much for having me.

There you go. When I was reading that last line that said male supportive, and I did that men's net joke. Yeah. Those two were trying to figure out how to parse that joke into the two of them. Anyway, give us your dot coms. Where can people find you on the interwebs? Sure. The best place to find me is mark-sutton.com. That's my website, and it has a link to Amazon where the book is available, and also to my blog about men in the 2024 election on Substack. There you go. So, how Democrats can win back men.

Tell us a 30,000 overview of this book, please. Sure. So, I have been a registered Democrat, as you mentioned, for 35 years. I've been very frustrated that the party does not pay any attention to male gender issues. And so, what I did was, first of all, I looked at the data of voting. And what you can see, there's this huge bifurcation of voting. So basically, the Republicans is trending very male. And the Democratic Party is trending very female. And this has been happening for the last 50 years. Like, why is this happening?

Of course, I'm a Democrat, so I want to get that male trending back the other way. So my thought was, how can we do this? So it's been going on for 50 years then? Yeah. Basically, 1972, people were kind of in lockstep for Nixon. Then, of course, Watergate happened. People weren't happy with that. So everyone kind of was in lockstep for Jimmy Carter. And it was in 1980 when Ronald Reagan ran. That's when that split started, and it's been that way ever since and growing. That's amazing because I thought the split happened after Obama with Trump, but that's great data. Yeah.

And is it partially because of, well, you tell me why. You're the researcher. Why is that? Okay. You know, a big part of it is I think the Democratic Party has just thought that they want to support women's issues, which is great. And I want to make sure that, you know, you and all everyone listening to knows I support women and girls. That's one of the reasons I like the Democratic Party, because they do support women and girls very well. But, you know, the Democrats have not done the same with men and boys.

And in fact, every time a Democratic president is in power, they lose the male vote from the previous election like they get in they don't do anything specifically for men and boys and then the next election comes around and the men think huh he's not really doing much for me i think i'm gonna i guess i'll vote back the other way this time wow yeah and that's what i think that's pretty much what elected trump in i mean i you know the the way that we ordained Hillary Clinton and I voted for Hillary Clinton because the alternative was you know I mean no matter I followed Trump for since 1986 and known what a shitbag he is I would have voted if he would have been a Democrat I would have voted Republican

for I don't know whoever's on the Republican side I'll always vote for him against Trump no one of scam wars that man is. Is it because, I mean, I know the Democratic Party has embraced women and I believe, you know, feminism. I know that the big, what was it? It was the big turnover with the Johnson administration where the Johnson administration, of course, you know, there was the ruling of Roe versus Wade. And then Johnson kind of flipped the whole map of, you know, what the Democrats are for and what the Republicans are for by supporting black people, by supporting welfare. And then they took the unions, which the Republicans used to have. And so then Nixon had to go looking for what became the great Southern strategy.

One of his advisors, the father of Betsy DeVos, helped start this new thing where they found that abortion was a way to get the vote out for republicans and you know for i guess for a lot of years it's kind of become democrats are for abortion and republicans are against is that has that been a big sort of ideologues sort of signaling that's driven men away yeah and that's what i don't know if that is specifically driven men away but that's and that's one of the, I don't know if that is specifically driven men away, but that's definitely a major issue with the two parties. You're absolutely right. And, you know, there's a few of these issues when you ask, what is the divergence happening?

There are other factors at play as well. Abortion, you know, being one of them. But I think that it's, I think it's just important to see the pattern and notice how consistent it is. And also, the Democrats democrats i think they should understand that every single time in that time period when they have lost men by more than eight percent they have lost the election wow i call that the magic number of minus eight percent and this is all exit poll data you know it's not the data i'm using it's got a little bit of a margin of error but it's pretty good data every single single time since 1972, if they've been above eight, at minus eight or above, they've done better.

If they're below minus eight, they've lost. They've lost the election. And Joe Biden just barely won the last election. And guess what his number was with men? Minus eight. He was right at that lower limit. So my strategy as a Democrat should be should say okay we almost lost the last election we were at minus eight with men let's try to get up to minus four with men let's just try to appeal

to men better let's message to men let's throw them a bone let's give some sort of men's health you know bill or something just do something for men and i've been so frustrated because as i've followed this election for the last, you know, a couple years and just seeing the Democrats refuse to meaningfully acknowledge men and boys and their issues. Definitely. And there's a lot of issues that men and boys have. We're seeing that come true. You know, we had recently on the show, I just had it on one of these tabs here and there it is. We just recently on the show in the 2022 boys adrift the five factors driving economic or growing epidemic of unmotivated boys and underachieving young men by leonard sacks yeah and the interesting thing about that book and there's a couple books like his the

war on boys and a few others that were written by these psychologists 2025, 25, 30 years ago. And so when we had him on the show, he was doing an updated copy of the original book. And everything that they predicted about men being driven out of teaching, activists, emotionalists, you know, very feminist-driven teachers being brought into education, boys being treated like broken girls, you know, boys being, you know, punished for being active and busy like they are, you know, why can't you be more

like the girls? To today's age, we're after Me Too, there's school counselors telling boys not to date and just, there's something that rhymes with date and just master. Because the problem they have is they're telling the boys is if you get a false accusation or a real accusation of some sort of sexual assault your life is over at this point with me too and they're like you don't want to you know and not everyone's stable in high school i dated in high school i don't think anyway it. And you know, that's a great example. You know, that story you just told is,

that gets to kind of the heart of why I'm involved with these issues at all. Because people say, why do you care so much about this? What's the big deal? Why are you worried about men's issues or men and women's issues? And because I can feel this divide happening, and I've been feeling it for the last 30 years, there's this cultural divide happening. It've been feeling it for the last 30 years there's this cultural divide happening it's been called the gender divide more recently that's become a little more famous and you know the the issue is it's being just reflected in the presidential vote

when you see that presidential vote with that bifurcation that is a representation of the cultural gender divide and i don't like that i want to live in a country where men and women feel like we're all on the same team and it's not us against you or you against us. And that's why it's so challenging working with the Democrats because they don't want to embrace the male message. They only want to embrace the female message. Yeah. And I think you're right.

It's really become, you know, I can see why families are important to people. I mean, people, boys are struggling right now because, and men, because they can't fulfill their biological paradigm. They're imperative to create families and breed. I mean, that's, we're all kind of breeding for the universe. We're propagating the species. That's kind of our core mission as human beings. I don't know. I hate to break it to anybody, but you live to breed.

And everything you do is to breed. So all the cars you buy and all the stuff you do to impress the other person. You know, the boy crisis, Warren Farrell wrote a plug for your book. There was Christina Hoff Summers, The War Against Boys, How Misguided Policies Are Harming Our Young Men. Recently there was Of Boys and Men, The Modern Male is Struggling. He kind of nailed it but they danced around it so he didn't piss off a certain group of people but you know i've been in the dating market for

35 years i just never got tired of being happy and settled down i got married plus i can't afford the divorces yet i gotta save up a few more millions and the what i'm seeing now and i run giant dating groups and meetups so i host these events every week where we have hundreds of people come out. They're singles to meet up in real person because dating apps aren't working. And it's a real problem for both men and women. So there's this huge hookup culture going on. No one's creating families.

Only about 95% of males are pretty much ignored by women on dating apps. That's actual data you can look up. They're chasing all the top chads and the that's actual data you can look up they're chasing all the top chads and the top high value men i know because they're in my dms there's a high value man and it's really wild and it's you know i'm seeing in my groups that women in their 50s are coming to me going where all the good men and i'm like you monkey branch too far you know most of the men are dying in double digits in their 50s they're the good men have already been grabbed up except for me and there's some

debate on that from the women's side um but i'll give it to him but you know i have money that's all that matters but you know it's it's it's interesting and then the other problem women complain to me about is where are all the masculine men and i'm like you guys killed them remember all that things you said where you know men aren't important down with men women up men down we don't need no man we got our independence you killed the masculine men you raised them in single motherhoods to where they didn't have fathers around you you beat the masculinity out of them through feminism because it emotionalism hasn't run as a you know the big thing that people don't get it's not about equality it's about scarcity and so it means

women must rise or men must men must men must sink so the women can rise yeah and i don't like that dwell i know exactly what you're saying. And this is, I say this repeatedly in the book, that politics is not a zero-sum game. We can help women and girls at the same time we help men and boys. And, you know, another reason why, for instance, I think the Republican Party is having better success with men, because they're addressing men. They're addressing men's issues. They actually talk about masculinity. You know, in the last year or so,osh holly he's a senator from missouri i might not agree with his politics

but he did write a book about men and about masculinity when he wasn't running from the mobs he created yeah real masculine move there buddy yeah yeah and then there's marco rubio who is you know being considered potentially as a vp candidate but he did a he's straight and i'm just kidding yeah but he wrote a 40 page you know his office came out with a 40 page report on on you know on men and jobs in the state of men is okay so guess what the party that actually talks to men about men about what's going on with them gets more of their votes who knew i mean why is that so hard to figure out the majority of people you saw on january 6 were oh what gender men you know if men can't achieve their biological

paradigms to create families and and we don't get unconditional love of course but to to get the respect and what we deem is love in in respect and you know creating and providing we really yeah we that's built into our genetics and we really get off on it and you know we know we're disposable in society we you know we always have to go to war you know they just they just did a thing that just recently where where they passed a bill where they're just going to force all men to be registered to vote but they excluded women and i'm wait, what about that equality thing? Thought we were doing an equality thing. This is interesting because it's one of those issues that is a little more on the spectrum of issues, not so clear cut.

And I would say that, I mean, one thing about automatically registering men, it gets rid of the penalties for failing to register, at least. I mean, because, you know, before that, if you just didn't know, or you missed the note card in the mail, or nobody ever told you you had to answer it, you wouldn't be eligible for federal grants like Pell Grants or student loans. You couldn't work for the government. And theoretically, you could be jailed. That didn't really happen. But theoretically, you could face jail. But yeah, if we're in a society of equality, shouldn't men and women both have to register for selective service? I mean, if it's not, then it's a different conversation. Okay, then men and women are different. We have different rules for each.

That opens a whole Pandora's box. And the other thing about the draft that people should keep in mind, too, is that just because someone has to register for selective service doesn't mean you're in the military. Then if there is a draft and you do get selected, it doesn't mean you're going to go into a combat role you might be you know packing boxes to put in planes to send overseas and just because you're in the military doesn't mean you're in a combat role and we have 20 of the military is is women and you know thank you all members of the military for the great work that you do but if there is equality then why shouldn't it and actually this is another thing that's interesting about this is that democrats and republicans it's not a party issue there are democrats who are for this there are democrats who are against it and

republicans for it and republicans against it so it doesn't it's one of those few issues that does not follow along party lines yeah and it's it's it's really interesting you know the rise of simps have or not simps the rise of simps have, or not simps, the rise of simps has been an issue. Men who aren't masculine and very servile, and they don't understand dating game, but the rise of incels. And I never knew what an incel was until that Santa Barbara killer showed up

back in, way back there. And I'm like, there's an incel guy who hates women, and so he killed a bunch of people? What the? I don't want to die by a guy who's a virgin. That seems like the worst person to kill me.

And so I started researching what this incel thing was. And then I started seeing it happening with young men in my own family that were being raised. And I'm like, hey, you're 16. Time to get a driver's license so you can chase girls at the prom and stuff when you're 17 or 18. I don't know how it works. And it's been a long time. And they're like, no, not interested in girls. I'm like, what?

What? I told a girl that I loved her in high school, and she told me no. And now I hate women forever. And I'm like, dude, if you gave up after one girl told you no you got a long life ahead of you yeah learning about rejection that's definitely a part of the male experience yeah it's a big there's gonna be a few women that are gonna say no to you that's kind of how that's kind of the process but it makes you a better man and you know and it kind of prepares you for the world too because you know jobs are gonna tell you no the world hates you as a man

for the most part. Make some of yourself and we'll see what you are. But yeah, and so a lot of these books that they wrote back then 20 or 30 years ago have all come true. They're like, you read them and they're like fortune tellers. And, you know, recently, you know, I'm all for equality, but it has to be real equality. It can't be this, you know, what you've alluded to, this parsed out equality over here for air conditioning jobs. And, you know, I'm still waiting to see a female, you know, laying brick or being in the construction trade or, you know, picking up the garbage on the garbage things. It seems like the air conditioning jobs are off the map for equality.

Yeah. Especially when you look at the numbers. Yeah, and I think it's just reasonable and common sense to understand that not every job is going to be 50-50. I mean, it does not make sense to say you have to look at every job and say 50-50. It doesn't mean maybe there are some jobs we can work toward getting more representation of any demographic group. I mean, I know a lot of people have been advocating for more male elementary school teachers, because like you said, there used to be a lot more. Another field, psychology, the male psychologists are going extinct. There's like very few of them. So, I do think, you know, it's a delicate balance that we have to do, I think, when we say, you know what, we do want some, want to make sure that everyone who wants to get into this field can

get into the field and can do well. But at the same time, we don't want to make sure that everyone who wants to get into this field can get into the field and can do well. But at the same time, we don't want to force people into jobs just to meet some arbitrary number and get people into a career where they're not comfortable, they're not happy, they don't do a good job, and then everyone else has to help them out or something. Emotionalism doesn't support a meritocracy. It supports socialism and the way that nature works is it's it's about they love equality but it's only equality when it serves the people who want it the most and the people who want like a meritocracy which builds everything we own you know that's what that's what the world builds on you know if you study empires once they go to emotionalism they're dead once they abandon logic reason meritocracy earning your way through the thing and and i think i don't know recently scotus did a did a ruling that kind of took away

some of that you know give people a free ride sort of thing that maybe don't deserve it and don't have the merit base for it i think with with the recent college thing, didn't they? You know, the college thing is interesting because I would say this. If you've got people who, you know, there's people like Bernie Sanders who've been talking about this for a long time. College is too expensive. Why do we have people going into debt

for their whole life to go to college? And maybe it shouldn't be that way. But I was surprised that the answer to that was, oh, let's have the government bail the students out. If the schools got all the money, why don't the schools say, you know what? You borrowed $100,000 10 years ago. You couldn't even get a job good enough to pay it back. We'll pay it back for you.

I don't understand why the taxpayer have to pay it back. I do understand that I think some of these universities and stuff have really high tuition, and it's like people go so far into debt for that so yeah i don't know if that's an exact answer to your question but yeah i i think you know we need a meritocracy you should only get a job if you earn it and if you qualify yeah this whole thing this whole thing where you're looking at people and going we have to fill you know some sort of quota is bs one of the things that i recently had a big problem with was the approval of the the massive attorneys firms that are filthy rich from running sexual harassment lawsuits if you're

familiar with that yeah title nine yeah are you talking about in university setting no it's across the board for companies and so basically a lot of these activists, emotionalists, attorneys that are suing every company in the world for any instance of the quotas being off or sexual harassment, they make all their money doing this. And so they passed a law that basically, sorry, we've got a spam caller coming in evidently on the show. Yeah, fucking spam spam i hate that let me just make a note here if we real quick because this part's going to get edited the normally we have everything off but spams the caller 30 minutes in all right anyway what they did is it used to be that companies could force those into arbitration. They could have an arbitration clause that could say, no, if you have sexual harassment, you got to take an arbitration.

There's not as much money in that and there's not as much settlements and of course payouts for it. So what they did is they lobbied the Biden administration and everybody else to make it so that they could be the only segment of lawsuits or attorneys or topical whatever that can get around arbitration and it really made me angry as a man because i'm like if we're going to ban companies from arbitrating stuff like sexual harassment we should ban them from doing anything like why the fuck does that get special treatment why does the one thing get special treatment yeah it was a great it was a great skit on saturday night live a long time ago about sexual harassment but i think pointed out one of the challenges with it so they had horatio sands goes up to tina faye and he's and he's hey

tina you want to go on a date with me? She's, that's not appropriate. I'm going to call HR. She picks up the phone. And then the Patriots quarterback, Tom Brady, he walks up only wearing his tighty-wears. Hey, Tina, you want to go out? She's, I'd love to. And that's not sexual harassment. They were kind of making a really good political point was, what is the definition of harassment or not is completely the person who feels it.

So somebody could say a minorly off-color joke and say, oh, I felt sexual harassment. It's a little challenging part of the law. I mean, I think it's like a lot of laws. It started out with a very good reason. And there's absolutely certain cases where it's 100% the right thing. But there's other times where it can get. And I think when there's motivation, when there's a monetary motivation for a law firm or somebody to try to eke out any tiny little minor grievance and turn it into a big thing, that's when we start to get problems. Yeah, or you don't want to work and you just want to pay out.

You know, I've done the sexual harassment complaint overseeing firing people, writing them up for all my companies. I handle it personally because talking to attorneys, they're like writing them up for all my companies. I handle it personally because talking to attorneys, they're like, you can only allow two warnings and then you got to kick them. You can't do three because then it looks like you're being supportive. You know, you really have to have a zero tolerance policy on this stuff. And, you know, we have trainings and everything else, but you know, one of the, one of the challenges in my companies that just is consistent and it always has been is that it's always the person there, there's plenty of the challenges in my company is that just is consistent and it always has been is that it's always the person there's plenty of the sexual harassment going on with the same woman it's just

the guys that she doesn't like that are ugly that i have to fire and it's been interesting we found that if we remove that person that woman from the organization we don't have any problems so we have to actually watch for very flirtatious problematic people that give off a lot of signals sexual signals and just keep them out of the organization at one point i told my executive secretary i don't want just hire ugly people from here on out i don't want any more beautiful people working here like i'm dead serious and you know what happened especially after we got rid of certain people that would complain about stuff all the time and create a lot of complaints you know they're going around hugging people and you know the the problem is the ugly guy would see the the cute girl is hugging you know chad tom brady and i mean it was very true it's been

consistent since the 90s for me and seeing it this is is a pattern. And, you know, I just, I finally, I'm just like, okay, you know, it's interesting when we remove certain people from the group that are overly sexualized and overly flirtatious. Guess what happens to all my sexual harassment claims? They drop to zero. It's kind of weird. It's kind of, we found there's a connection there. And so there, there really is power behind that. I mean, it's a joke, but it's kind of weird it's kind of we found there's a connection there and so there there really is power behind that i mean it's a joke but it's not and i'm i was really upset with the biden

administration even though i voted for him that they approved that because i'm like i want equality you know the arbitration is kind of bullshit across the board that companies pull that shit and let's just eliminate arbitration overall like why does the sexual harassment emotionalism team get get what they want interesting yeah there's been similar criticism of the biden administration for the title nine policy it's kind of related so i i wasn't familiar with that law so thanks for sharing sharing that with me but yeah title nine on campuses has been a similar thing where they have these tribunals and there've been a number of lawsuits by people who feel like they were unfairly adjudicated by the school and kicked out of school without proper resource and you know this is one of those areas like i said i'm a

democrat but you know when the republicans came into office they said hey we're we want the we want to make sure everyone is treated fairly in these tribunals if there's an accusation take it seriously but the person's innocence also has to be taken seriously we have the presumption of innocence in this country that sounds very straightforward american you know it's our tradition is what our country was founded on due process i mean that's one of the most important principles of our country so i don't understand why democrats are against due process when it happens on a university campus. Yeah, that's part of the wokeism that's taken over. The woke extremism, emotionalism is taken over campuses.

I mean, they have a, I mean, I, you know, I'm not a right wing dude. I'm not like trying to stop abortion or, you know, do anything. It's Republican. do anything it's republican but you know when you're when i see people stomping their feet like bratty children holding their breath and plugging their ears nose and closing their eyes hear no evil and you're like and they're just shouting everyone down i'm like this isn't how you run a civil society this isn't what our founders wanted they wanted debate they debated the constitution had i mean for a long time it was an argument and you've studied the federalist papers they were arguing the newspapers about it debating the newspapers about it yeah the law was signed

on march 3rd 2022 it was called the law limiting arbitration agreements for sexual harassment and harassment claims i believe it was hr 445 something but yeah i was kind of like because i think arbitration is bs across the board so i'm like let's do equality let's just ban all arbitration because it's kind of a joke it's it's how companies you know kind of limit their liability by saying you just you can't sue us but we'll go to court and you maybe get a small settlement and they do that for consumers too and protection against class action lawsuits. You know, I guess if they kill some people with a bad product or, you know, some sort of other class action thing, you know, they can screw over consumers.

They screw over everybody with it. I'm totally against it. But it really made me angry as a male voter because I'm just like, hey, this is stupid. You know, I was going gonna say you mentioned too just that lack of having different ideas it's another thing about the biden administration again i've done a lot of things that i really like so i don't want to i'm not here to trash them i'm like you i'm a moderate democrat but you know he has a white house council gender policy council which is actually a women and girls council which basically he

remade that council from what barack obama had and he this council's only mission is to focus on women and girls they don't focus on men and boys at all even though it's called the gender policy council and he needs people like you know with the he needs people with a different point of view who have more of a male focus to balance out that council so that he can make the decisions in front of the country from a balanced perspective instead he's only getting information about women and girls and not about men and boys and that's that's a shame it's a shame that he's not open to that it really is because you would balance the whole thing and men are struggling i mean men are committing suicide at three to four times suicide rate than women.

They're not getting into college. There's now more women going into college. And we talk about this a lot in the dating field. The problem women have, and I'm seeing it in dating right now. Like I have a bunch of 50, 60 year old women by the thousands in my dating groups. They're like, where are all the good men, Chris? And I'm like, you killed them? You killed them off masculinity. You had a bunch of women go in and take over psychology,

and they declared that masculinity is toxic and bad. So all the men went, okay, we'll just give that up. Whatever makes women happy. And now they're all screaming for these masculine men. Where are they? You killed them. And you say you killed them them and you're not even being that's literal we killed them you know men's life expectancy is now 5.9 years less than women's it's

a number that's been growing and growing and growing and so when you get into the 50s and 60s there are a lot fewer men than women period so even if everyone paired off you'd have a you know if everyone who is straight paired off you have a bunch of extra women left over. I mean, there's just more women than men over age 40. A lot of people don't know this. There's more boys than girls born. The ratio is about 105 to 100. And then boys die more than girls all the way up to about age 40.

By almost double digits by age 40. And then at 50, we break double digits. Yeah. So then, yeah. So yeah, 50s and 60s, there's going to be, there's going to be more women than men just at that age group. Yeah. And, you know, the other problem we're having in dating that hurts women is, and this affects women.

Like I have women that are desperate to find a husband and they're coming out of, you know, and even worse worse they bought emotionalism's game of just do your career first and so i have women now that are 50 52 and they have six kids or four kids they're all in diapers and they've blown out of their first divorce that normally people would blow out of in their 30s and they're looking for a man who wants to take on a family who's 50 to 60 and most men aren't interested in doing that and so there's that dichotomy that's going on there's the other issue in dating where we've run we've run a bunch of polls in my dating group there's a bunch of polls online too only with hookup culture that's going on if you're familiar with hookup culture only about

10 to 15 percent of men are actively dating because 95 percent of women aren't chasing men so the only men who are really dating are men that have some money and some game and about five percent of those is the chad hookup culture crowd so they're just turning and burning through about 150 partners a year. And so it leaves you with about 10% of the market that's actively dating in the polls that I've seen. And all these men are sitting on the fence. They're just like, we're done with it. We're not marrying.

We don't have the, you know, some don't have the money because of this economy and stuff. You know, they don't have houses that women can move into, they don't have cars. And then the other problem women have is they make some pretty good money and that's fine. Congratulations. But you know, I meet them and I'm like, you turn yourself into the man you always wanted. So you make 120 grand a year and you want a guy who, because hypergamy is a real thing. Women date up. They don't date down. they don't usually date sideways they date up so they want a guy who earns more than them a guy is more successful them etc etc when you for men in America for single men especially over six feet tall if you're looking at men who single men who make more than $80,000 a year it's only three percent of the population the u.s wow wow three percent

of the population the u.s if you go to a hundred thousand dollars for a single male over six foot it's only it's less than one percent of the population wow so i fit that market and i don't know if you've been on tiktok lately but the whole world of the internet are of women are screaming that they want high-value men. And they want millionaires or they want guys who make 100,000 plus, six foot tall plus, and are well endowed. Let's just put it that way. We call it the third six. They do.

And they don't realize that there's only less than 1% of those men on the planet. And even then, when you tell it to them, they think they're still going to find it. You have a one out of 3.5 million chance of meeting me at six foot two tall, 100,000 plus, and I'm not going to get into the third six. That makes it even more harder to get to me. But you have a one out of 3.5 million chance of finding me in the U.S., let alone me being interested in dating you, let alone me being interested in offering you something beyond sex in a relationship or marriage. And at that point, the odds become billions, really, especially when somebody's been single as long as I have. Yeah. And I think you're exactly right.

I think it's contributing to this loneliness epidemic among young people because yeah because i think they think oh dating is something you do through your phone as opposed to just going out into the world and just naturally meeting doing what you love going for hikes or joining clubs whatever then oh i met this person in my club hey do you want to hang out after club whatever it is you know like young people don't even think of that. And I think you mentioned this earlier, you were correct, that they're worried about getting accused of something. And so these wrongful accusations is a worry. So then they're scared to date someone in person.

And then they go to these online apps and the chances, like you said, are very low for a lot of people on these apps to find what they want. And so we have this loneliness epidemic of these like younger generation they just they end up not dating as much younger people are just not dating as much as you know 20 30 years ago and then i mentioned the incels earlier i was meaning to get to something about that these young boys that are going off and shooting up schools that are in their incels so they're raised without a masculine presence in the home i think warren of the boy crisis wrote about this that gave you a

book for your book they're predominantly raised in single mother homes they're raised in emotionalism so they're emotional boys when you mix you know men have the penchant to kill it's in our nature it's why we're giving up our body strength we have a killer's sort of hindbrain mindset when it comes down to it because we it's all caveman shit and tribal shit we haven't changed over all these years so we have a penchant to kill when we want you know women kill with you know destroying your reputation and talking about you behind your back and and you and rumors and innuendo. Men, we kill. So when you raise a boy who can't control and regulate his emotions and emotionalism with a low emotional intelligence,

if you give him the right symptoms of a gun and he feels rejected by society, he doesn't manage his emotions with stoicism or masculinity, which is a core foundation of stoicism. I mean, it's basically the owner's manual to be a man. He, if given the right circumstances with a gun, will act that out. And a lot of men do sometimes not with a gun. They beat women in violence, rape. All those things come from single mothers' homes. The large amount of criminals we have in the criminal things come from single mothers homes the amount of large amount of

criminals we have in the criminal system come from single mother homes rapists come from single mother homes serial killers come from single mother homes this is a big deal without men being able to assist other men and what the crisis is of what men are going through and i agree and this is exactly why i think the democratic party you know this is where they should actually take the lead in this stuff instead of sort of putting their head in the sand and pretending it's not none of these things are gender issues but let's take the school shooting one because i think nothing strikes more fear into any parent's heart than their kid going to school and hearing there's a shooting at their school that's the worst thing you can imagine and you

know if we know that it's almost all men and like like you say, a lot of most young men are boys, I should use the word boys. Most of them are from a home without a father, not all, but most like over, I think it was 95%, something like that. So it's okay, what is what is missing with these people's with these young boys lives or young men's lives, that they wake up on a certain day, and they think the best thing they're going to do is create this chaos. They draw and they drew a plan. It's not it wasn't spontaneous. Like a lot of these people have plans. They've drawn it out. And it's OK. This is exactly the sort of thing the Democrats could take the lead on and say, hey, we're going to help our boys support our boys. You know, we're going to create a national boys commission or something and work to support. We want our goal is to have zero school shootings ever.

And we're going to do that by supporting our boys great message i think voters would like it it would be male supportive who's you know and it shouldn't even be a partisan thing why is supporting boys so that they don't get upset and go create these acts of violence should that be a partisan thing shouldn't be everyone it shouldn't everyone be supportive of that and it's shocking to me how suggesting to create a national boys council or something like that people look at you like you're some kind of weirdo or something like this seems like a very straightforward common sense idea to me yeah we need to be really honest it's not about equality it's about men down women up so women can rise i've had women say that to me on the show there's women there's quotes of that on the show of women i've had on the show who say

the future is women. I'm like, what, what future then are, do men play a part in that? And, and again, this isn't all about men. Women, we're tied together. We're, we're, we're, we're not equal. There is no equality in the universe. We are compliments to each other. We're different, but we were those pieces of the puzzles

that come together and that's what we have to recognize that you know masculinity needs femininity femininity needs masculinity and and they're both healthy and we both need those two to work together one of the one of the other things we've alluded to too is now more than ever there are more women going to college than men. And those women are going to want to hypergamy make family someday. They've got that clock, biological clock ticking. Men don't have that. And I see my young men that are in my gaming groups, they're out spending their money and

having fun. They own like race cars and they got more toys than I do. And I mean, I got investments but you know i got better things to do but i mean if you want to buy a bunch of cars knock yourself out declining assets but they're having fun they're buying like giant video game sets that they sit in for car racing and and they're having a good time the only problem is is these women when they graduate college and they get to 30s to want to kids, the percentage of men that are going to be available to them are going to be much far fewer.

And if right now, from the numbers I see, only about 12 to 15% of men can actively date or are interested in actively dating. And we're talking about long-term dating. So it's where I take a woman out on a date we go on another date I take her to dinner I pay for dinner I I do all those things that signal to her that I'm a provider and protector and a potential husband or long-term mate the rest of the market is either just sitting around doing hookup culture they're not interested in long-term relationships they're not interested in marriage or they just can't afford to date and they a lot of them don't care and a lot of the women that are

in my 50s groups they don't realize that they've monkey branched too far because most of the men in their 50s too not only are they gone but most of them have been through one to two divorces so they're cleaned out they're kind of done marrying. I've had women in my group come up to me and go, Chris, I don't know why men won't date me anymore. Tell me about what's going on with you. I've been divorced four times or I've been divorced three times.

I'm like, honey, you're a wonderful person, but men aren't doing suicide missions, man. No one wants to be the fifth divorcee. Come on, man. Seriously one wants to be the fifth divorcee. Come on, man. Seriously, how did you get to 50 and every decade you've pulled off a divorce? I mean, you should get an award, but I'm not sure that's the kind of award you want. But a lot of these guys are on the fence. They're just burnt.

They're tired of being game for money. There's so many scammers out there. I don't know if you follow TikTok, but one one time, one of the trillions of views, things were how to scam men, how to rip off men. There was one point, kill all men, that was trending as a hashtag. And if you try doing anything to kill all women, oh, that was banned. And there was a lot of those anti-equality hashtags, scam all men, manipulate all men, all men suck, you know, all these hashtags. And the biggest problem that, I don't know, you should talk about if you haven't or maybe write in your second book. The biggest problem that I have is when I go on social media, I'm attacked as a man. And I can't go on TikTok without seeing something about how bad men are,

how awful we are, how worthless we are, what pieces of crap we are, how we're scammers in dating, which, you know, 90% of educated women, 90% of divorces that are filed by educated people are educated women. And it's 80% or 70% of women are filing divorces. They're the ones leaving. And it's usually because 70% of women are filing divorces. They're the ones leaving. Yeah. And it's usually because a man financially stumbles. And so I go on there and I get attacked and then I get the three sixes thing and I deserve a man who has three sixes.

I deserve a high value man. I get that constantly. It's in my DMs. I get people coming up to my events telling me that they deserve me. And I'm just like, it's the most assaulting thing ever. But someone made something interesting. You know, I'm 56, so I can kind of roll with it. I'm used to getting trolled by the internet after all these years on YouTube.

But someone made an interesting comment to me today, the other day. Young boys are growing up without that sort of bias that i or that that that callous that i have young boys are growing up and they're seeing this thing firsthand and it's going to shape them and yeah it's not going to be healthy like i can sit back and go okay i'm masculine i'm stoic okay that's cute what you got going on there but these young boys they're gonna be fucked for life to put it to put it mildly you know that is one of the challenges you're exactly right would we have you know a whole generation of boys being told you know the future is female and girls are cool and boys cool or whatever toxic yeah boys are stupid throw rocks at them

that was a t-shirt that was going around for a while and yeah you couldn't change the genders on that and it'd be acceptable now you know sticks and stones to break my bones okay but when you're a young kid and you see messages like that i think those stick i think those i think those get into you and more than people realize and yeah it's okay to trash one gender but if you do the other one, it's bad. I've had people tell me that they like my post. Oh, why aren't you liking my post or commenting on them? It's a little too controversial.

My posts are very straightforward. I'm talking about health care policy, and I'm doing word searches of the Democratic Party platform where they don't talk enough about men and boys. They talk a ton about women and girls. And I've had a couple people say, yeah, it's just i don't want to be too controversial they're scared to even oppose that supports men in the most i think i would say the most benign way i could possibly write it you know and people are still nervous i get assaulted daily for talking about what my value is so in 2020 i saw i saw all these women are running around know my value i know my value and i was like what is that about and and i guess it was coming from kevin samuels videos that he was doing with kevin samuels and kevin samuels was trying to have an interesting conversation especially with the black

community that he was part of as to how you know we can get more fathers for black children and and you know but he was talking to i think a lot of what everyone was concerned about because you know things kind of came to stop there in 2020 in fact dating did and so i saw these women running around i know my value and so it started a conversation in my head and there was a lot going on in clubhouse about this conversation of knowing your value and dating and i remember going to clubhouse about this conversation of knowing your value and dating. And I remember going to clubhouse and seeing just women yelling at men in clubhouse rooms. There were these big audio rooms and they had what were called stages. So you would go up on this, you would be the leader who could talk to everybody and people go up and voice their opinions and bark at people. And,

and it was, it was good for good for you know talking about healthy issues but i would go in these dating rooms and there would be women up barking at men going we don't do coffee dates and if you don't send us money to pay for the babysitter and we need a you know a thousand dollars cash app to us before we even go out to you what i was just yeah yeah a thousand dollars just to go on a date and you have to send them the money yeah you gotta send the money you gotta cash out her for her hair her nails you need to go on tiktok more oh wow wow yeah this is beyond my scope oh dude and it's it's really hard to deal with as a man because you're like god i i like women i thought they were all soft and puppy dog tails and daisies and stuff so i sat down i said what's my value as a man? What do I bring to the

table? Do I have value as a man? And anytime I discuss value as a man, my value, my personal value, because I've done my own Ben Franklin, just like women have done. What do I bring to the table? So I know what I bring to the table. But anytime you talk about men having an option of choice men knowing their value that men have the ability to pick the women that they want based upon some sort of standards you get the hell attacked out of you i mean it basically there is a narrative in the world that men don't have a choice that men need to shut up sit down and just you know the future is women and men men need to just go be dumb mules and that's really the message that comes across in fact it's been said to me you know there there are some deep issues and i agree with you democrats need to embrace this i

mean we we used to be called the big tent or we used to be called the big tent i say that exactly i say the exact same thing in my book you're right on the money where are men allowed in this big tent if you look at the 2020 democratic party platform i did a word search on it the words women and girls show up 73 times the world's men and boys only show up a total of 10 times and every single one of those 10 is just a men and women's statement like native american men and women is one of them like they're just so there's no issues zero that are focused specifically on men and boys in the 2020 and basically the exact same thing in the 2016 democratic party platform so they're saying we don't care about men and boys but we want your vote they asked me for money i

don't know 10 times a day and various emails on the various democratic lists i'm on so you just say give me money give me money give me money okay at least tell me one thing specifically like of all the issues that men and have we die earlier you know we commit suicide opioid overdose all these things happening to men can you help us on one specifically focused on men and the answer is no they can't do that. Pete And we could probably do an even longer list when it comes to divorce courts. I know so many men that, there's men in my group, we just had a big singles event on Father's Day and we were going to cancel it because it was Father's Day, but we decided to have it because there's so many fathers that are alienated from their kids.

That's so sad. We just said, come out and, you know, we don't want people committing suicide at home today. Come out and we'll celebrate Father's Day with you. And as we know, Father's Day, and I think, didn't we recently do Men's Month or something, or Father's Month or something? Yeah, I think June was Men's Mental Health Month, yeah. No one cared.

I know. I live in San Francisco, so it's pride month here, period. Like it's hard to do something. I did, however, four years ago, create a day with one of the organizations I work with. We created International Sperm Count Decline Awareness Day, which is June 30th every year. This is the fourth year this year because this is an environmental issue, which again, Democrats should care about the environment, right? It's all these plastics and toxins in our environment.

Men's sperm count have declined by 50% or more. There's a recent study now that says 63%. And this is all over the world. Yes, the estrogenic chemicals. And it's not just the United States. It's all over the world. That should be sending alarm bells. And I feel this issue is not even brought up. So we created it. June 30th every year, have party there you go i'll celebrate my vasectomy every now and again my vasectomy check when i go into a relationship and they always call me from the fertility clinic and they're like we have some bad news mr voss and i'm like what is it and they go you don't have any sperm and i'm like yay and they're like wait this is not the usual answer we get but But no, you know, male divorce court is supposed to be equal technically according to the tort laws, but it's not. It's highly biased.

You know, you look at the numbers between kids that are raised in a single mother home versus male are demonstrably different. I understand why males have to go out and work and make more money, but that may shift in the future with women, you know, making more money going into college, but then they don't lay down. So they're just going to have problems with families. I mean, I've seen women in the dating market on Tinder, literally advertising in their late forties that they bought the feminism line, go vote for the, go work for the man before you go live with the man. And they have, they're sitting there going, literally pleading, going, hey, I have frozen eggs and I'm late forties and I need to find a man and a family now. I'm like burning time.

And you're just like, honey, the people, the men who are older than you that date down, that are your dating class, they're done. They've already done one or two families i don't know i don't know what you're someone lied to you like you know i and i have empathy for a lot of people in that situation because like you say you know gender roles have just changed tremendously since world war ii i mean never have in the history of the world i don't think if we've seen such a rapid change of gender roles and so women are thinking i'm i'm told i'm supposed to work i'm told i'm supposed to do

this all of a sudden wait a sec now my biological clock the alarm bell is going off and then they feel like hey i did they think i did what i thought i was supposed to do this is what everybody told me and if you you know people who send a message other than that sometimes they their voices get drowned out but you know i so i do feel some empathy for women where all you know gender roles have changed you know like you say women often still are looking for somebody who is a certain you know income category or whatever but if they're making more money do they have to reprogram their brain to be okay with days or how does that work hypergamy is a hindbrain thing

women can't so it's a it's a challenge as as society changes and i think it you know a lot of these changes have been good i think it's great that everyone can go pursue their passion if you if your passion is becoming a lawyer anyone can do it that's great i mean all these kind of things we should have a world where people can pursue the life they want to live and let's let everyone come out. I don't like it when, as you alluded to before, we have to pigeonhole a certain number of people into this particular job to meet a number. I think that's, and it's a delicate balance of making sure everything is open to everyone and not forcing people where they really, you know, there was not, it wasn't really the right fit. Yeah. I mean, I see women suffering right now in fifties and sixties. They're having to date down or they're trying to date down. If you study the numbers on women who date down, it never works

out well for them. They're more stressed in relationships if they get into marriages because they have to be the male. They can't be feminine. They've got to usually be the breadwinner, you know, in these sort of relationships relationships the men always leave them for younger women it just never works out long term it's it's a it's a zero-sum end game there might be like i don't know who's that guy who's runs france you know he's got that older wife you know it works in some very yeah in certain cases yeah yeah there's outliers but you know i see women suffering i mean women are asking me all the time where are all the good men where are all the masculine men where where is everybody chris and even the numbers like in my groups i mean we have almost

20 000 people in all my groups and stuff on facebook and and the meetup.coms that we do and you can see the the the numbers of the groups of people who are alive and active in the groups and then i parsed that with our state local numbers of men and yeah men are just not there i mean i think we figured out that only seven percent of men are available for dating and being alive and not in relationships in the state of utah in that age, yeah. Yeah, and yet we have 50% women that are single looking for men. So 50% of women are chasing 7% of men, basically. Wow. That's horrible odds for women.

So I feel for women. It's not that we're like, oh, hey, women down so men can rise. No, we rise or sink together as male and female. Exactly. I'm so glad you said that. It's exactly what we're all interconnected when we all do. Again, politics is not a zero-sum game or the gender issues are not a zero-sum game. It's not, oh, the men's team and the women's team and you're fighting and who's right and who's wrong.

It's like, no, how can we lift everyone up? I think that's what we need to be thinking about. You have to be in a, you can't be in a scarcity mindset. You have to be in an abundance mindset.'t be in a scarcity mindset. You have to be in an abundance mindset. A rising tide lifts all boats. And yeah, it's just really important. And women, they, you know, they have trouble now. They're like, Chris, I make a hundred grand a year. I need to find a man who makes 120 grand a year. Good luck. There's only 1% of those men and they date down, you know, they date down quite far because they can and usually

they're looking for feminine women you know they've earned their peace in their life so what do you what do you see what do you see any dangers on the horizon with this current election coming up and we just like i mentioned earlier we just came out of this issue with biden really doing poorly in a debate and having a bad debate night. Yeah, so looking at this upcoming election, so first of all, even before the debate last fall, again, I really look at these voting by gender numbers, that minus 8% is where you want to see the Democrats at with men. So that means when you poll the men, you want to see minus 8 or above. They've been at minus 16, 17, 18 consistently since last fall. There a new york times sienna

poll that came out in the fall going all the way up till now it's about the same last week it was minus 18 so just looking at that number that would mean the among women to balance that out you know the democrats would have to do better by far than they ever have with women the best democrats have ever done with women is plus 16. They're not going to win. So basically, I've been looking at the numbers all year from that perspective and think the Democrats are behind and they haven't really made up much ground. They made up a little ground in the spring and then boom, they just lost it with the debate. I don't know if Biden is going to stay in or not. This obviously is the number one story in the country right now, if he's going to stay in or not.

He's vowing to stay in. I think it's likely he will because nobody can kick him out at this point, I don't think. Again, he has paid almost no attention to men and boys' issues. I've been following this whole election just to see the messaging and see what they do. There's been one very brief commercial. It was focused at Latino men and it's saying, Trump is bad for your girlfriend or mother or the women in your life, so vote for Biden. And it was probably a very small scale Spanish language, Latino commercial. That's it. But in terms of the rest of the male demographic, they're not approaching us.

They're not messaging to us. They're not talking to us. And even though some of the rest of the male demographic you know they're not approaching us they're not messaging to us they're not talking to us and even though some of the policies they do are beneficial for men you know they're they're you know biden has pardoned a lot of marijuana offenders who are in jail for small level marijuana use that's a male issue in my opinion because most of the people in jail for that are men yeah and so when he pardons them that's a good thing, in my opinion, because most of the people in jail for that are men. And so when he pardons them, that's a good thing for men, but they won't sort of claim it as something that is helping men. They only bring up other parts of it. So I right now, just looking at the numbers, they've been behind for the last nine months and I haven't seen any major changes to them doing better and even if biden drops out and it's somebody else that new person better really look at the mail 48 of the

voting population the one pundit who's sort of been talking about this is james carville he's the one person who has been sort of on on point on this for the democrats although he's not working for the democrats anymore he's just as far as i know i think he's more of a commentator i'm sure he gives people advice but anyway so i am very concerned for the democrats in this election also you know you look at the swing states you know not surprisingly the democrats lost among men in all seven of the swing states those are the most important states so you look at the numbers in those states too. Yeah. And I believe, you know, the rumors have been, or at least there's been some surveys that

black people have moved away from Biden. I believe the Cubans did in Florida, and I believe Mexican people have done as well. And I think that's in large part because of the men in those communities i think that's exactly right and so there's been a small push like i say like that latina the one latino ad i saw there's been a little bit of a push in this way i saw kamala harris did she she did a a meeting with young black male business owners like they have there's been a little bit of outreach i think to minority men but they need to take a step back and understand it's the same pattern with every single race that there are more women voting democrat and more men you know voting and there's a gap i should say

with each race that that there's more women voting democrat than men are voting democrat within the same race so there's obviously a gender component to the whole thing. And for some reason, the Democrats just can't put that together and just acknowledge it. I don't understand why. I got to tell you, it just kind of baffles me. Let me ask you this. I mean, Roe versus Wade was overturned under Biden. Not that it's just falling, I'm not blaming you. I'm just giving a time period, people.

But are they betting or are they betting too much that that's going to get out the vote you know i mean anybody anybody who knows what's going on trump's you know been very open about stopping abortion you know project 2025 obviously he's probably going to get one to two or three more scotus appointments in in the next term. If Trump wins, abortion is gone. And I mean, the joke about, I don't know, what's that TV show where the women wear their red capes and stuff they're always going on about? I'm not sure. It's the housemaid's tales, the homemade tales.

Oh, the handmade tales. The handmade tales, yeah. Yes, okay. I do know that. Yeah, yeah. There's always kind of this meme going around that that's what will happen under, you know, these Christian administrations. And women, you know, I've read a lot of books on fascism. This is the pattern that always happens with fascism and the rise of right-wing nationalism, if you really understand it.

Beth, I forget her name, she wrote a book called Strongman. And a lot of it has to do with the rise of women and LGBT rights. And it gets really high and men lose enough rights that men just seize power back. And that comes from the right-wing Christian thing. And they seize power at the most optimum time. And if you understand what's going on, if you read about Project 2025, if you understand the powers that be in white nationalism and how much they're rising and supporting Trump, we're in a time where this is a Nazi, Mussolini, you pick your fascism, takeover. And it will be a masculine takeover. And women will lose rights.

And so do you think the Democrats are just betting that they're going to get out to vote over abortion? I think that's a big part of it. And it does make sense. If you're a campaign strategist, you want to always motivate your base, right? And you're exactly right that the abortion issue is one of the biggest elections that the Democrats are running on this year. There's no question about that. But you also have to say, why would men vote for abortion? Like what's in it for them? And think of the male perspective. I talked to somebody who runs the DNC in North Carolina, which is one of the seven swing states. I said,

you lost North Carolina among men by 9% last time. What's your strategy to do better with men this time? And she said, no, we're focused on women. And I just thought, this is exactly the, like, focus on everyone's. In my book i called the all demographic strategy remember howard dean had the 50 state strategy and they did really well obama won twice you know they won the congress in 2006 they said you know what we're going to go everywhere we're going to go to alabama mississippi alaska we're going to go everywhere and that's going to just raise the party up and that will do better we're not going to forget people because they're in a district that we don't think we're going to win and i think they're making the exact same

mistake today but they're doing it they're they're doing with demographics instead of geography so what they're doing is let's focus on the people we think will vote for us we'll focus on this group and this group and this group and if we get enough of these people in enough of these states we'll win i think that that appears, I don't have the inside information. I'm not at their meetings. But just based on all the messaging that I'm seeing and all my analysis of the data and of the party platforms and like that, they say, we're going to try to go for these types of people. And if we get enough of these types of people, we'll win.

And I think the answer should be, you should go for everyone. Yeah. Especially men when they're 48.7% of the voters. Why not? What you got to lose? I mean, it sounds like the same mistake Hillary Clinton did when all she had to do was go to fucking Michigan or Wisconsin at least once. Exactly. I'm really afraid that the Democrats are doing exactly what they did in 2016.

Yeah. And then we have the ordained thing i mean that was the other problem with hillary was we ordained her biden wanted to run a few other people wanted to run and the democrat party said no we're gonna force a woman into the vote and we can guarantee that she'll win but wasn't it didn't turn out yeah wasn't it the issue that beau passed away as well i think so yeah but i think also there think also there was an ordainment thing. The other thing is, too, is my understanding, and I believe this comes from a well-researched book,

the Democratic Party was broke. Like, Obama just left it fucking broke. And so Hillary was the one who had the money to inject to get the Democratic Party going again and processing for an election and so she just took it over and owned it it's kind of like what trump has done to the party of republicans yeah i know a lot of bernie sandra supporters weren't happy with her at that time well they were they were screwing and sabotaging the bernie thing if you remember they weren't

giving they weren't giving data they were they were slow walking stuff they were just mucking about to sabotage his his thing and you know i was never a bernie supporter but it was really obvious what was going on at the time because bernie was complaining about it too all right oh yeah remember when he sat at the at the inauguration of biden with the big mittens on and he's a little oh yeah yeah that's a great meme but yeah i mean we we all need to work together i mean equality is true equality across the board it's either equality or it's not equality and that's really what it comes down to i'm fully supportive of women and their women efforts but it has it can't be a zero-sum game it can't be men down women up

and that's what it has been for the last 30 years if you study what's gone on schools what's gone on men you know i i see these young men all over my gaming community they have no interest in marriage they have no interest in women they have no interest in relationships they've got some pretty good money you know they're not going out and getting high paying jobs or college degrees but you know they're enjoying their life and men are designed that way we're designed to roam we're not designed actually to be in marriages and all these silly things that have come back if you look at the marriage thing experiment in human history it's like a teeny ass sliver of the eons of time we've been around and that's why you know divorce rates are so high it's just not

working anymore especially when women have an extreme amount of hypergamy. Social media can make it so that people can easily jump from relationship to relationship. But I'm seeing that it's hurting women. And like I said, I have all these women that are 50s and 60s. I have women that are younger. I mean, when I'm talking to women that are in their 30s and 40s, they're like, we're all the masculine men, Chris. We'd like to start a family. I'm like, they're gone.

You killed them. You know, the psychologist got taken over by women. They said male toxicity is bad. So all the men turn into simps. We need men, men. They don't make those anymore. Have fun. So there you go.

Yeah. All right, man. Give us some final thoughts as we go out. Tell people where they can order the book. All right. So the book is available. Give us some final thoughts as we go out. Tell people where they can order the book. All right. So the book is available. It's called How Democrats Can Win Back Men. Again, my name is Mark W. Sutton.

It's on Amazon. And you can also get the link to the Amazon listing on my website, which is mark-sutton.com. It's M-A-R-K-Sutton, S-U-T-T-O-N.com. You click there, and you can also get to my Substack blog, Men in the 2024 Election, where I'm following these events in real time as they happen. There you go. And I just would like to keep democracy around for a while. Yeah.

Four more years, maybe. This isn't too much to ask. So yeah, as a moderate Democrat, I'm hoping we win. I think you raised some good things. I think, you know, I don't know, we just need stronger lobbyists. You know, this is the problem with men. We're so busy, you know, saving the world and doing all the stuff we do and raising families and being the dominant income earners and probably 99% of families out there. I don't know what it is. 95. We're so busy doing that. We don't have time to sit around and hire lobbyists and do things.

There needs to be more main committees. I know there's a lot of things for men and divorces but you know both men i think men realize that we need women but we need more women who are like we need men and there are plenty out there too it's good to point that out there are a lot of supportive women that i work with with these non-profits that i've worked with or in other advocacy work. And you're exactly right. Somebody described it this way. It's almost like women and girls have a labor union that's advocating for them at every turn at the national, state, and local level at all these councils. The state of California has 25 commissions on the status of women and girls from the

state down to the local level. San Francisco, where I live, has a department on the status of women and girls, no department, of course, on the status of men and boys, despite those poor social outcomes that we talked about earlier. So I 100% agree with you. I'm trying to do it, man. Chris, that's what I'm working on. I'm trying to create these commissions and do that. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it's going to be, you know, I think a lot of women on the Republican side understand family and they understand the importance of men. And there's kind of a value there. I understand why they don't like abortion.

As a moderate, I can kind of start seeing both sides. And I've been able to look at both sides and go, you know, how do we bridge the gap between these two? Okay, somebody's got to give a little. Somebody's on our side is going to give a little. We got to somewhere figure out how to meet in the middle but if trump wins it's it's not gonna be good for women it's not it's gonna be very ugly i mean go read project 2025. go understand christian nationalism yeah christian nationalism is about is about a very ugly thing and it's not men that are mostly they're probably men mostly behind it

but there's a lot of women too like anytime i get this bashing that you know men men are the ones who support you know are against abortion no those guys have wives and they're jumping and doing what their wives tell them so it's the christian women that don't like it either it's like 30 percent of this country 33 percent of the what the women in this country don't support abortion. You know, take it up with your sisters. Yeah. Yeah. And, and believe me, those, those husbands are doing whatever the wife's telling them.

So if you think it's men behind it, talk to the sisterhood. So there you go. Anyway, guys, thank you for coming to the show. Mark, great discussion on this and we'll see how this turns out on in January. All right, yeah. We'll see you on the other side. Chris, thanks so much for having me on. I really appreciate the discussion.

I'll see you in the Democrat camps. We'll share a bunk. There you go. All right. Thank you very much for coming to the show. Give us your.com one last time if you didn't get that. Sure. It's mark-sutton.com, and you can get there to click on the book to buy it on Amazon.

There you go. You look you look like me a good bed bunk bed mate all right how democrats can win back men my understanding male voters and their issues is vital for democrat democratic victory out june 26 2024 and thanks a lot for tuning in go to goodreads.com fortress chris was all the crazy place they net be good to each other stay safe we'll see you next time