The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – How Horses and Hypnosis Can Change Your Life Forever

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

How Horses and Hypnosis Can Change Your Life Forever Outofchaostherapy.com Equineassistedtraining.com About the Guest(s): Sarah Wellband is a seasoned expert in cognitive behavioral therapy and a certified control system workshop presenter. She spent two decades as a successful independent mortgage broker in London and Dublin before retiring to central Portugal in 2007 to pursue her passion for horses. Despite her initial retirement, Sarah's dedication to self-improvement and mental wellness continued to grow. She qualified to level four in cognitive behavioral therapy and trained under Tim Box in remedial hypnosis. Today, Sarah offers a unique therapy practice using non-verbal communication to aid personal development and resolve deep-seated issues. Episode Summary: Join Chris Voss on his 16-year hit journey with "The Chris Voss Show" as he hosts a thought-provoking conversation with Sarah Wellband, a distinguished expert in cognitive behavioral therapy and remedial hypnosis. Discover Sarah's fascinating transition from a mortgage broker to a therapist and how her retirement shifted to exploring communication skills through equine non-verbal body language and expanding her expertise in mental health therapies. This episode delves into Sarah's insights on the subconscious mind and its effect on behaviors formed in childhood. Keywords such as "cognitive behavioral therapy," "subconscious mind," "remedial hypnosis," and "mind communication" dominate the discussion. Listeners learn how deep-seated beliefs can lead to issues like anxiety, trauma, and unhealthy habits. Sarah shares techniques to identify and alter these subconscious behaviors, offering hope for real transformation. Her innovative approach emphasizes the urgency of addressing mental health concerns and reshaping one's life narrative for greater fulfillment and peace. Key Takeaways: Learn how cognitive behavioral therapy and remedial hypnosis can help unlock and transform subconscious beliefs. Discover the impact of childhood experiences on adult behaviors, particularly around issues like anxiety and phobias. Understand the importance of updating outdated subconscious beliefs to better align with adult life goals. Explore how non-verbal body language, especially from horses, can teach effective communication skills. Gain a fresh perspective on resolving trauma and anxiety through direct subconscious communication, bypassing traditional hypnosis techniques. Notable Quotes: "The subconscious wants two things: it wants you to be happy, and it wants you to be safe." "What the mind learns, the mind can unlearn." "Anxiety is the emotion that tells you when something is too important to ignore." "We are very simple creatures. We want to be safe, we want to be happy."

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, because you're about to go on a monster education rollercoaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. I'm the host, Chris Voss, here from thechrisvossshow.com. There you go, ladies and gentlemen. There are ladies and gentlemen. That makes it official. Welcome to 16 Years of the Chris Voss Show.

Going on 17 and over 2,200 episodes that you can binge over there on the Chris Voss Show. You know, the great thing about the Chris Voss Show is you can find just about any darn topic, any darn expert on the show over all these years. So go over there and just hit play and just consume the playlist like it's going on style go to goodreads.com fortunes christmas linkedin.com fortunes christmas christmas one the tick tockety that was crazy place in the internet as we always say we have an amazing young lady on the show today we'll be talking with sarah wellback and she has spent 20 years as a hugely successful independent mortgage broker in London and Dublin before retiring in

central Portugal in 2007, where she fulfilled a lifelong ambition of owning horses. And those things are expensive, folks. Let me tell you, I've got some friends that own horses. That's no easy trade there. You've got to buy some things. Retirement didn't, it's come up so expensive as my espresso addiction. Retirement didn't last it's come so expensive as my espresso addiction. Retirement didn't last as long as the horse herd grew. And she ran a trail riding center before qualifying in an equine, equine, equine? There you go. I'm still learning the horse trade.

Using the incredible nonverbal body language of horses to teach people how to improve their own communication skills there's one of them kicking you know the one the horse does that kick and knocks people out i love that on tiktok covet forced sarah to pause this enterprise so she could turn to self-study and qualified to level four in cognitive behavioral therapy for training in remedial hypnosis with tim box the founder of Control System Modality, and she's subsequently qualified as a Control System Workshop presenter. Welcome to the show, Sarah. How are you? I'm good, thank you.

Thanks for having me on the show, Chris. Thanks for coming. We really appreciate it. So welcome to the show. Give us your dot coms. Where do you want people to find you on the interwebs? Yep. I've got two main ones.

One is outofchaostherapy.com. So out of chaos. There's a very famous thing called out of chaos comes order. So outofchaostherapy.com. And the simpler one is thecontrolpractitioners.com. Okay. And give us a 30,000 overview, what you do over there. Yeah. So people often get worried about the word hypnosis. They think they're going to lose control. They associate it with stage hypnosis where people are made to do stupid things and in the name of entertainment. What I do with my colleagues is what's called remedial hypnosis, which means that we don't use a trance. don't put people to sleep we don't have a little watch going and go tick tock tick tock you your eyes getting heavy that type of stuff

what we do is we talk directly to the person's subconscious mind so to explain you've got a conscious mind and a subconscious mind at the moment you're using your conscious rational logical mind but underneath the the surface the subconscious is in charge of your emotions, your creativity, your imagination, all the things that, excuse me, your automatic thoughts and actions. A good example, when you get in your car to drive home, you don't think I'm going to put the key in the ignition, I'm going to turn the key, I'm going to put my foot on the pedal.

No, you just go, I'm going to drive, and your subconscious handles all the boring stuff. Okay. But the subconscious is where all your issues lie. Phobias, anxiety, trauma, PTSD, problems such as tinnitus, migraines, pain when there shouldn't be pain. All those things are situated below the surface in your subconscious. And the best way to describe this, are you a fan of Star Trek, Chris? I know Star Trek. I mean, it's a good show.

People really love it. Do you remember, who was your captain? Was it Picard or was it Kirk? I'm the original Kirk because i grew up in the 70s yeah me too me too so if you imagine kirk if you imagine your your your mind is like the starship enterprise and kirk is your your conscious logical rational mind so kirk knows where the ship's going to go what the the mission is and how to get things done okay he can think deeply and solve problems but he can't fly the ship on his own he needs a whole crew to do everything from

you know the washing up to to keeping the place clean and and it's a team effort okay so if you imagine kirk is your conscious mind, the crew is the subconscious. So the crew are in charge of helping him fly the Enterprise. If the captain and the crew are all working together, all working towards the same goal, that's great. But if part of the crew think, actually, I'm not that keen on Klingons, we're not going near the Klingons this week because I'm scared of them. Then, okay, I'll give you a more real-life example. Say if somebody was at school and they stood up when they were at junior school and made a complete mess of giving a presentation to the rest of the class.

A little part of their crew, a little part of their subconscious will go we're never doing that again it was awful we hate that feeling we're embarrassed you know it was the worst feeling in the world that person gets to 25 and they're in their first job and their boss says you can give a presentation to the rest of the staff that part of the crew will go and we're not doing that and we'll do whatever is necessary to make sure that you do not go through that experience again even though now you want to you know you're saying this is part of my career yeah so the things that we learn in the first 10 years of life are called the core beliefs so the up until about the age of 10 years old you don't have the ability to think rationally you don't have the ability to decide what you're learning

is right or wrong whether what you're being told is true or not and the best example of that is if you ask the average five-year-old to believe that there's a man in a red suit who's going to be flying around the world delivering presents to every kid on the planet, that five-year-old will go, yeah, yeah, no problem. That concept is fine. Okay. So they will believe that. And there are so many things that we learn in that first 10 years of life

that become part of who we are. Yeah. You know, we say, okay, I'm not very good at sports or I'm not great at languages or you know I'm not pretty enough or I'm not good enough or whatever that there are positives as well But it tends to be the negative ones that stay with us And they stay with us into to adulthood. Sorry. What do you think? It's the negative ones that stay with us. I think humans are programmed to be slightly negative if ancient caveman had wandered out of his cave in the morning and said you know what it's a nice day

i'm not going to take my steer with me it wouldn't have lasted very long so we're always we're inherently programmed to be slightly cautious to just be a little bit more careful and I think protection maybe protection yes survival survival yeah I mean I can remember nice things being said to me but then the things that that hurt the things that wounded me would I can remember those a lot more maybe only maybe we tend to retain those, you know, for fight or flight information. Yeah. For future reference. We, you know, I mean, one of the things we've talked about with psychologists on the show,

and it's kind of a recurring theme through trauma discussions, is a lot of times, too, in that probably, I wonder if there's a difference between before 10 and after 10. A lot of things that happen in our childhood, they shape us. And there's blueprints that we get from our parents and their relationship with each other. But sometimes we repress things from that era. And because trauma, big T trauma, kind of overwhelms the brain. It seems like the brain kind of will put it away for a while and then bring it back later when it feels we're maybe mature enough to handle it but in the meantime all that stuff's affecting us i think yeah trauma is something that that i work with a lot and it sounds weird but i

enjoy it because it's very easy to enjoy trauma i enjoy i enjoy working with trauma and fixing trauma. There you go. I enjoy giving people trauma. I'm an awesome employee, so that's what I do. You know, you've got to give the kids something to be in therapy over for them. Yeah, exactly, exactly. It's the job of any good parent. They've got to spend their inheritance on something. Inheritance? What is inheritance?

I like giving my kids inheritance. Yeah, trauma is a really good one. When something happens, especially to children, again, part of their subconscious, part of the crew will go, what happened? What happened? Was I responsible? Did I do something? Could I have avoided it? And that part of the subconscious will go to all the efforts, and it happens in adulthood as well, to figure out exactly what happened for the express reason of avoiding it in the future. So if you're an adult and you have a car accident and you go, what did that happen?

You're subconscious. You are on your phone. You're texting. Don't do it again. That's why the accident happened. To teach you lessons so you learn and protect yourself. Exactly. happened to teach you lessons so you learn and protect yourself exactly but sometimes sometimes things in life are so random that there's just no reason or with children unfortunately the people

involved can't or won't explain their part in it so people the mind is going, I need to find out, I need to find out. And it will keep on going, which is why trauma often results in flashbacks, in nightmares, in recurrent thoughts, because it's going on that hamster wheel. I need to figure it out. I need to figure it out. Okay. And what I do is basically contact or connect with that part of the subconscious and say, this, this, this, you will never find an answer. We call it the unsolvable puzzle.

So if I said, here's a jigsaw puzzle, which will explain exactly what happened, but half the pieces are missing and some white paint got in there over the years and you will never figure it out. And then that part of the subconscious will just say okay then i'll stop because the subconscious only has an interest in solving problem solving problems which are solvable oh really well then that makes sense where a lot of people have a lot of unresolved trauma and unresolved issues yeah so you know 57 and single and dating there's a lot of unresolved issues and you're like you never did you there's hope there you go send them to you so yeah it's i i had a lady you you never forget what happened, but what happens is you break the emotional connection. So there is no, you can look at the events and say, okay,

that it's like it happened to somebody else. You know, it's not affecting me anymore. So I can remember it. I can think about it. I can talk about it because I don't have that emotional bond anymore. Wow. And that really helps. And then you don't do it emotional bond anymore. Wow. And that really helps. And then you don't do it through, you know, everyone, when they say hypnotism, they think

of, you know, it always takes me back to 1920s black and white Hollywood movies. Yeah. And I imagine it's much easier to work with because, you know, I don't know how I think hypnosis works. You have to be, you have to be you have to allow yourself to be hypnotized so does it take many sessions does it take is it something can be done fairly quickly or is it something you have to kind of work in because a lot of this stuff can be really ingrained in someone's life okay first of all obviously it can be done via

zoom i work 90 of of my work is online. About 10% of people respond incredibly well to the subconscious coming forward and talking. About 10% of people don't respond at all. And most people are sort of in between somewhere. It's about 80%. Okay. What I always do is I start with a free initial consultation because one, it's really important to make sure that I can work with what the person wants to work with. Secondly, that we actually get on with each other because, you know, you don't get on with everybody. And if they don't like me, I don't like them.

Then it's not a great recipe for success. I've met those clients. But thirdly, to make sure that the subconscious will respond. And what we use to do that is what's called IMRs, which are ideomotor responses. So if I was to say, okay, I want the subconscious to move a finger, and I did this to you, and you said, hang on, I didn't move that finger. I didn't consciously move that finger and i did this to you and you said hang on i didn't move that finger i didn't consciously move that finger my subconscious did so we have one movement for yes one movement for no and it's funny and i can see the look on your face it does freak people out because they have no concept of the body being able to move independently of you telling it what to do.

But the body can. I mean, you see, I talk with my hands. Now, I'm not consciously making these movements. My hands are just deciding to talk. But that's what we do during that free initial consultation. We say, okay, let's try to see if, if your, your subconscious will communicate and say probably 85, 90% of people, it does work. IMRs interestingly were probably what, maybe the old fashioned seances where people would put their

finger on a glass and the glass would move around the, the, the letters and people would you know seen seances or ouija board type things so that's so they're actually subconsciously moving so that'd be something and everybody would swear blind that they hadn't moved the glass yeah and it wouldn't be yeah exactly so the subconscious would be moving it and nobody said no it wasn't me i didn't you know i didn't do it and they didn't consciously it was the subconscious that was doing it okay so we have everything and again normally it's on a desk but we have everything from the tiniest tiniest little movement to oh my god somebody's playing a piano yeah and the subconscious is really like wanting to talk about all these issues because the subconscious wants two things it

wants you to be happy and it wants you to be safe and those two things come from childhood happiness and safety we we think we are incredibly complex and and deep and you know multifaceted people individuals we're we are so difficult and things must take weeks and months and years we're very simple creatures we want to be safe we want to be happy yeah i mean are some people do some people want to be happy or they think they want to be happy and they pick miserable stuff? Because is that also part of the subconscious? Because, you know, I've seen people that espouse they want to be happy. I'm going to flip back to dating in 2024.

But their behavior does something completely different. You know what I mean? Yeah. It could be that they don't know how to be happy, which is really sad when you think about it. There we go. Yeah, they have heard of this concept of happiness, but because of the way that life has shaped them, they don't know how to do it. The other thing is what's called a secondary gain. Secondary gain.

Secondary gain. secondary gain if you have for example and i'm not speaking from experience at all a mother who says you never visit me you never come and see me bloody bloody bloody blood but and then you go and see her and she's still complaining that's the secondary gain so i will complain i will be unhappy i will be miserable because that will make you do something that I want you to do. It sounds a bit narcissistic too. Again, it's human nature. If I can't get you to do something that you want to do out of your own volition, I will make up a story. Narcissism is a term that's thrown around a lot these days.

It's way overused. But I suppose there could be a touch of it in there touch of it i mean imagine you know a baby cries right and it wants attention or food or you know it's trying to communicate and it can't really communicate i mean imagine that would be kind of a selfish reason and in one sense and maybe there's an expansion that as we go through stuff but i see a lot of people that they talk one way about what they want and you're like never listen what they say watch their behavior and and i'll see people say one thing that they want but their behavior isn't ever going to get them what they want because they're there's there's kind of self-sabotaging and maybe

that falls back to what you talked about earlier where there's that captain kirk guy and he's go forward young man or whatever those lines are from star trek people who are going to write me hate mail now if they're star trek fans doesn't say that but the subconscious is now we're going to sabotage that because we're not comfortable with that is that is that a good analogy yeah it is and it would be a good analogy because the subconscious, because you've had a bad experience or you've been led to believe by people, your main caregivers, when you were young, that you weren't capable of doing this thing. Therefore, don't make a fool of yourself because it'll end in tears. It's always interesting when people say, I've been anxious

ever since I was a young child now I don't know if you have kids I don't but I have seen children wonder but make it into a room full of adults and you're thinking that child is not embarrassed or anxious or self-conscious you know children children as you say they're completely selfish they have to be They're completely egotistical. The whole world is about them. Yeah. Because they have to be.

I thought that was mostly teenagers. I just had to do that joke. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the peak pinnacle that they reach from youth. Yeah. I wish this stuff was taught in schools. I wish the basics of cbt was taught

in school because there would be an awful lot less mental illness mental health problems the fun being that the world would be really boring and no one would be on twitter yeah that's that's true but just going back to the other question you asked because i I'd forgotten to answer it, how long does it take? It takes three sessions. So we have the initial consultation, okay? We have the first session where we do most of the work. Second session reinforces it.

And in the third session, I teach people how to use the method on themselves. So much is doing me out of them coming back and spending more money with me, that's fine. You know, if people can actually talk to their own subconscious, it's so powerful. It's so, have you ever said to somebody, oh, there's a part of me that says this, there's a part of me that thinks that? Do you ever use that phrase? I think so, yeah. There's a bit of me that says we shouldn't do this or we should do that when you talk that that's that's a part of the subconscious part of the subconscious which is

trying to do that protection it's trying to to keep you safe keep you happy stop you doing something this is how we do stupid stuff yeah maybe happy maybe yeah The other way of looking at it is that, you know, there was so much that we learned in that first 10 years, which was relevant then. You know, the public speaking example I gave is a really good one. But you need to upgrade the system. So really something I've been working with a lot this year is weight control. When you're little and you're unhappy or you're tired or you're grisly or you're upset,

whatever, mom or dad will give you some chocolate, cookie, bit of cake, and instant happiness. Okay, so your subconscious goes, okay, sweet stuff equals happy. Easy, got that. But when you're young, you're not in charge of the of getting at the cookies getting at the the chocolate so you you get what you're given and it's it's hopefully it's regulated when you get older you go haha i want to be happy i'll eat some chocolate i'll eat some cookies i'm buying the whole box yeah exactly exactly but what you find is that not only doesn't make you happy, it actually makes you unhappy because you go, okay, I've got a problem at work. I'll go home. I'll eat some chocolate. That'll make me feel better because it did when I was a kid. Two hours later, you're feeling fat. You're feeling horrible. You still got the problem at work and now you've just added to it.

I have that problem 40 years later. I'm still eating most of the chocolate or burgers that i ate over the last 40 years okay so again it's it's a it's a solution that worked when you're a child when you're an adult it doesn't work anymore but that that compulsion that that wow it works and therefore keep trying keep trying keep trying so again breaking that emotional link between food and comfort food and happiness once you do that people go i'll just eat normally i worked recently with a lady who'd actually had a gastric bypass she'd had a full-on operation bariatric surgery because she was very overweight and she was eating chocolate again she said I've spent all this money having surgery to reduce the size of my stomach but I'm just I can't stop eating chocolate at the end of the first

session she said I really fancy a nice piece of melon now and since then she hasn't eaten any chocolate you know i went through the same unfolding of stuff when i lost weight and i was doing i was consuming 10 i just packaged this i was doing 10 to 15 mountain dews a day drinking vodka at night and i think every other night hitting a half a bottle of vodka and then and it was it's mostly for the sugar I mean I just I get tired and I'm an entrepreneur and I'm like I can do a few more deals if I just stay up and you know shot of whiskey or vodka at night would you know give me some juice and I could you know do more work you know entrepreneur you're working 24 7 and so for me at first it was like just a sugar

high but I was eating at fast food restaurants all the time. I weighed probably close to 400 pounds, if not 400 pounds at one point. And then I read Penn Jillette's book, Presto. And at the time, I just was feeling miserable. I just felt just a bag of stale quarter pounders or something for me. That's a gross way to put an analogy together, Chris. I'm going to puke. Drive heave on the show.

But I just felt awful and miserable. And I reached that point where you're just tired of feeling miserable. And I said, I don't know what needs to change, but I'm sick of everything and what I'm doing. And somehow I've got to figure out how to change it. And what Pendulet's book did was it helped me recognize, through his experience of recognizing this, his childhood reasons for why he would eat. Mom told him to finish everything on his plate.

That's not always good, especially in today's world. In the 70s, we didn't have high-fructose corn syrup yet, I think at least in the early 70s. know we didn't have so much sugar or food like we had smaller plates yeah yeah because we couldn't afford those bigger plates it was the 70s man there was a but and so unpackaging you know you know my mom and most moms at the store would say hey if you're if you're a good kid you get a reward you know you can you can have a good kid, you get a reward. You can have a pop or you can have a candy bar.

We leave. If you're quiet, if you're good, you don't drive me crazy. My brother was really good driving my mom crazy. I think we all were. And so you got this reward thing. So I always had this weird thing in my head where when I would go to the counter, I'd be like, okay, I'll get a reward of a Coke and a giant ass chocolate Snickers or something. And, you know, so one of the things I realized with Presto, Penn Jillette's book and his experience was that's not a reward.

You know, that's like drinking a gallon of bleach going, I get a reward for whatever. And you're like, this isn't healthy. It's not a reward. You're punishing your body. And so I started untangling all these belief systems that, you know, you drink the Mountain Dew for the caffeine. There's a pound of sugar in it or something. So I started really looking at my belief systems or my idioms or my reasoning

that was keeping me fat. And, you know, salads suck. Salads are tasteless. A lot of vegan food, vegan-ish food, I should say, so I don't get swords and arrows, is if you can take those natural vegetables and fruits and stuff and make them taste really good, you can hack the dopamine taste bud manipulation that mcdonald's and other companies have done so that they can get you hooked on the dopamine effect of it a lot of it was my some of my childhood sort of reasoning and so it's interesting you talk about

how that you know all goes back to that childhood thing yeah i mean you can see it now it was very simple that when you were young you learned a very important lesson that that being good equals a reward and you just carry that through yeah it's like it's like i was like at the time i was like 46 or 45 and i'm like why in the hell does a 45 year old need a reward because he took himself to the store. This is dumb. Exactly. And it's not a reward. It's a, it's adding on three pounds with a, you know,

a sugar high. And you're just like, that's you. You're not rewarding yourself. You're killing yourself slowly. So it's basically, you know, death by food,

suicide kind of really new to think about it. And yes, with this whole weight loss injection, you know, the you know that the talk about weight loss has become louder in the last few months and the problem with those weight loss injections is when you stop doing them you haven't reeducated your that the mental side a lot of people that happens to they get the they get the stomach surgery now drinks their stomach and they're like I oh, lose weight now. And then they just keep on the same patterns of going to McDonald's every day or fast food.

And then they blow back up. And you're like, wait, I thought that was supposed to work. You know, when I did go on a Zempik for about, I think, four months or six months, didn't do anything for me. In fact, I ended up gaining weight. And that was with my intermittent fasting and everything i do part of it may have been though because i was also starting testosterone so it may have been muscle who knows i mean that's usually the claim i make when i put on weight right it's muscle it's not that to 10 burgers i ate yesterday but that two

liter coke but the so i actually lost 20 pounds after I got off of Sempik through my normal patterns of, of just intermittent fasting, eating one meal a day, eating, eating healthy meals and just doing that simple thing. And that was all the difference. But yeah, we have these rules and subconscious patterns. So I started listening to them all when I started losing weight, and that's what helped me unravel them. Yeah, I think there is no downside to being able to listen. So with something like anxiety, for example, anxiety is a huge issue. And people think of anxiety as an illness or a disorder anxiety is an emotion

anxiety is the emotion that tells you when something is too important to ignore so for example when you leave your house in the morning and you just check your pockets for your keys that's a tiny little bit of anxiety saying check your pockets just make sure you're not like locking the keys in the house when you step out into the street and you look both ways to make sure you're not going to get run over that's a little bit of anxiety so anxiety is a really really important emotion it's there to tell us you know get up out of bed you've got to go to work or or revise for this exam or you've got hot date coming up make sure you smell nice because if you didn't then you wouldn't get a second date but people get really frightened of anxiety they get butterflies in their stomachs

and go oh my god there's something wrong with me i need to be medicated i need to you know i need some sort of cure for this anxiety. Imagine if you had no anxiety whatsoever. You would literally just step out into the street and get hit by a truck because you wouldn't see the value in looking both ways. That makes sense. That makes sense that it has a protective mode, but then sadly the, you know, it doesn't always work as good for us, I guess, that way or something. No.

The main thing with anxiety is to listen to it. So if anxiety is saying to you, this is going to go really wrong. This is terrible. I can't think of an example. Can you give me an example of anxiety? Speaking? A lot of people have a speaking anxiety? Yeah.

Yeah. So that, yeah, that speaking anxiety. So the little bit of your crew will go, don't do it. I'm going to make you feel sick. I'm going to make you shake. I will do anything to try and make you stop speaking. It's not doing it to mess up your career. It's doing it because it's trying to protect you.

So if you can talk to that little part of the subconscious and say, look, appreciate your worry, but I'm the adult in the room now. I've got this. A good example, one that I use a lot with clients is, do you have children? No. No, okay. clients is do you have children doesn't matter no no okay but imagine a parent in the middle of the night and their kids start screaming mom mom dad dad dad there's a monster under the bed now do you run into their room grab them out of the bed run into the street

shouting for the police and the army because there's a monster in your house no i just told him I put it there on purpose. Yeah. There's no monster, but whatever you do, don't look at it in the eye. But no, you say to the child, there's no monster. It's okay. Look under the covers. You're fine.

You can go back to sleep. That's what you do with your anxiety. Your anxiety is saying, I'm scared. I'm a little child. I'm scared. I don't know what's happening. I need you do with your anxiety. Your anxiety is saying, I'm scared. I'm a little child. I'm scared. I don't know what's happening. I need you to listen to me. And if you don't listen to me, I will just talk louder and louder and louder.

And if you still don't listen to me, I'll scream at you. And that's when people go, I've got an anxiety disorder because I've got these voices screaming my head to tell me to be scared. And I don't know what of. Sounds like you every day with me. Screaming voices in your head. Screaming voices in my head, yeah. I mean, it depends on which voice it is and which personality. There's about 20 personalities.

What I want to touch on too is I believe, do we want to give a plug out to your equine webpage? Not really. All my horses are now in their 20s, so they're all pretty much retired enjoying life we just put the food in at one end and clean that the other end and yeah there you go that's that's pretty much that's going to be on my that's going to be the epitaph that reads on my tombstone you put the food in one end and it came out the other that's what he did for 50 60 70 years wow i'm sure my thanks kids for taking care of that part

but yeah with the equine service anything you want to plug as we go out and one thing i would say is that the the control practitioners uh of course i'm based in portugal but i've got colleagues in states in seattle and in the uk And it's a really simple service. If somebody gets in touch with us, we will contact them within 24 hours. So if they go to the controlpractitioners.com, fill in the form, tell us what they want to talk about, we will get back to them within 24 hours. If what they want to work on is appropriate, we will do the the free initial consultation no

obligation within seven days so they will get to talk to somebody within seven days i think it's crucial when somebody says i've got a problem i need to dealt with to know what the time scale is going to be and if if after the initial consultation they want to go ahead it's all appropriate we will start the treatment within 14 days. And you've got the three sessions, a once-a-week session. If at the end of the third week we agree between us that we need to do more sessions, we do more sessions. And we do all that for a fixed fee, which in U.S. dollars is $635. Oh, wow. that's pretty expensive

it's a fixed fee it covers everything and if they want to come back to us at a later stage they can do it depends some people are in therapy for years and i don't know if they're paying 100 bucks a time then after six months they've paid for that cost. Plus, it's much cheaper than owning a horse. Yeah. Luckily, land over here is very cheap. We've got three hectares of land. Oh, wow. Land is one euro a hectare.

One euro a hectare. One euro a square meter. I'm moving over there. Here in America, it's out of control. You'd think we'd run out of real estate. And there's plenty of real estate. I've seen the maps even less they're still north dakota and south dakota yeah it's they're pretty much empty up there a while in montana so what what's what's with the real estate prices but you know everyone wants to live by the ocean and get them here it's all about the

view so as we go out how how can people onboard with you? How can they reach out? How can they get to know you better, see if you're a mix on both those websites? They can just look at those websites. They can get in touch via the websites. The email address is on there as well, so they can get in touch with me and say, I will always guarantee to get back within 24 hours. If I can't, I will pass the details on to a colleague who will do

Do that we don't Charge any money until we are pretty damn sure that that we can we can help that we can solve the problem There's no no upfront payment the payment is only becomes due after that initial consultation where we've we've ascertaineded that we can work with them and that the subconscious will work with us. Yeah, because sometimes those subconsciouses, you know, they've got a mind of their own, eh? They've got a mind of their own, but that's why we need you. That's why we need your help. So as we go out, give people a final pitch out and dot coms where they can find

out more about you yeah sure so if you are suffering from basically anything the mind learns the mind can unlearn so if you're suffering from a phobia so from from trauma from ptsd if you're in pain when you shouldn't be if you have things like tinnitus or misophonia or basically anything that comes from your mind but is affecting your life, then get in touch with us. We can tell you really quickly if we can help. If we can't help, at least that's one thing that you crossed off your list that you've tried

because I'm not going to say I can do everything for everybody. I can't. But we can always have the conversation, and it doesn't cost a penny to do that. That's awesome. That's wonderful that you have that so people can take advantage of it. So thank you very much for coming to the show, Sarah. We really appreciate it. You're welcome. There you go.

And thanks for tuning in. And you've kind of explained to why we, we only talk about so many of these things. It kind of makes sense that everything revolves around childhood, man. It's so important. One of the things I was going to fall back to that you're discussing this, and we're going to really fall back. But one of the things that really happens to kids is a lot of people don't realize is divorces really impact them. And so they'll take the blame like yeah but did i cause the divorce and it's six a lot of kids absolutely yeah or or parents parents fighting and i think

it's important to for people who are in that position to realize that yes the strains of being in a family might have caused a problem but it wasn't them as individuals i don't know i told my kids that that was the reason we got divorced but i'm into guilt and It might have caused a problem, but it wasn't them as individuals My kids that that was the reason we got divorced, but I'm in the guilt and shaming to get people Yeah That's a good good strategy in that case I mean if it works right, you know I did that before I sent him to military school till they can't call to their 18 now and I Secondary gain that's that's always a fake my desk. So they're never gonna be able to find me. If not, try the secondary game. That's always it.

I was a fake by death, so they're never going to be able to find me anyways. I moved to Barbados. Anyway, thank you very much for Sarah coming on the show. We really appreciate it. Very insightful. You're very welcome. Thanks, Chris. Thank you.

And thanks for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com, Fortunes Chris Voss, LinkedIn.com, Fortunes Chris Voss. Either refer the show or I'm going to pull this car over and come back there. Don't make me stop, kids. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you guys next time.

And that should have a sound.