The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – How to Love Someone Without Losing Your Mind: Forget the Fairy Tale and Get Real by Todd Baratz LMHC

Episode Date: June 1, 2024

How to Love Someone Without Losing Your Mind: Forget the Fairy Tale and Get Real by Todd Baratz LMHC https://amzn.to/3KrF3Lc A sanity-saving guide that cuts through the sky-high expectations of modern love and helps you build healthier and more fulfilling relationships, from the creator of viral Instagram account YourDiagnonsense “Witty, practical, fun, and deeply honest.”—Terrence Real, New York Times bestselling author of Us You’re not crazy. You’re human. Modern love is a mess and life is (spoiler alert!) very hard. Whether you’re in a committed relationship or on the apps, buckle up, there’s a lot to unlearn. How to Love Someone Without Losing Your Mind is your guide to sanity in a culture gone mad. Psychotherapist and sex therapist Todd Baratz blends sharp humor with raw insight as he challenges us to break every rule about love. It’s time to move beyond the relentless pursuit of the perfect partner, to challenge the stigma against neediness, and to rethink our obsession with diagnosing common challenges as disorders. Instead, he offers an empowering new perspective: Embrace challenges, feel deeply, make mistakes, learn, and grow. Drawing from his extensive experience as both a therapist and a patient, Baratz shares stories of navigating his personal traumas and guiding others through theirs. This book is an invitation to understand your life as part of a larger cultural narrative. It encourages you to delve into your history, cultivate self-awareness, and take responsibility in your relationships. By doing so, you can move beyond the fairy tale and transform your approach to love. About the author Todd Baratz is an accomplished author renowned for his expertise in the realms of psychology, relationships, and sexuality. Holding a Bachelor's degree in Cultural Psychology from New York University and a Master's degree in Mental Health Counseling from the University of Miami, Todd seamlessly integrates academic rigor with practical wisdom in his literary pursuits. As a certified sex therapist and licensed mental health counselor, Todd's dedication to facilitating understanding and fostering open dialogues about culture, relationships, and sexuality knows no bounds. In addition to his prolific writing across various media outlets, he is celebrated for his influential Instagram account, @yourdiagnonsense, which boasts a substantial and devoted following. Based in New York City and Los Angeles, Todd operates a private practice that serves as a hub for individuals and couples seeking guidance in navigating the complexities of life, relationships, and personal development. Beyond his professional engagements, Todd is a passionate advocate for LGBTQ+ rights. In addition to his literary contributions, Todd shares his wealth of knowledge and insight by conducting seminars and workshops, addressing topics spanning from sexuality to strategies for enhancing relational satisfaction. His dedication to empowering individuals and driving positive change underscores his commitment to making a difference in the world. Engage with Todd Baratz's work, and you'll find not just an author, but a trusted ally and mentor, equipped with the expertise and empathy to guide you on your journey of self-discovery and personal growth. Explore his books to uncover the wealth of wisdom he has to offer.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, because you're about to go on a monster education rollercoaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. There you go, ladies and gentlemen. There are all these things that makes it official. Welcome to the big show.

We certainly appreciate you guys. A little slowness there on the applause. What the hell, man? What do we got to do to get you guys waking up this morning? Thanks for tuning in. As always, the Chris Vaughn Show's family loves you, but doesn't judge you, at least not as harshly as the rest of your family does, because you're the one no one likes.

And the reason you listen to this show is so that you can learn to be the one everyone likes. But you're probably also the smartest in the room because everyone knows the black sheep of the family is the smartest. And that was me. There you go. As always, refer the show to your family, friends, and relatives, or else don't find out what that means. Go to goodreads.com, Fortes, Chris Voss, linkedin.com, Fortes, Chris Voss, Chris Voss1 on the TikTokity, and chrisvossfacebook.com. We have an amazing young gentleman on the show he's sharing with us his hottest new book that's just fired right off the presses it'll be coming out june 4th 2024 it's called how to love someone without losing your mind forget the fairy tale and get real tom barrett's is on the show with

us today he's gonna be talking to us about his book, and he even has a title here, LMHC. We'll find out what that means. I think it's code for, I don't have a joke for that, so I'll just skip trying to make something up, but he'll tell us later, I'm sure. He's a renowned psychotherapist and sex therapist whose innovative approach to mental health and relationships established him as a leading figure in his field. In addition to his clinical practice, he is a prolific writer and speaker. His insights are regularly featured in various media outlets, and he discusses topics ranging from romantic relationships to individual mental wellness. He lives in New York City and LA, of course, the greatest city in the world, LA.

We can argue about that on the show. Welcome to the show, Todd. How are you? Hi. Thank you for having me you hi thank you for having me and thank you for that intro and all of that fun all that stuff the uh yeah so you're sex therapist we'll get in the show later and talk about my last trip to thailand and what this rash is about but in the meantime give me a 30 000 overview what's in your book what's in the book

a lot's in the book so the book is written from my experience in my past relationship my experience helping people in their relationships and my experience being on social media having people reach out to me about their relationships so lots of stories about relationships and how to improve them but also a little bit of philosophy about how to tolerate life basically there you go tolerate philosophy about how to tolerate life, basically. There you go. Tolerate life and make love? How to tolerate life, love, and yourself and other people.

Oh, tolerate myself. Man, that might be pushing. I'm going to need this book. We joked about your title, LMHC. What is that? And give us a.com, too, if you could. Licensed Mental Health Counselor. Ah, cool.

Therapist. You're just not some guy who's a who's on therapy who's declared themselves a therapist you're just making up shit as you go along yeah i have a degree and a license therefore yeah it's legit we're big proponents of that because there's a lot of people out there just making stuff up so we like licensed people always deal with the professional folks especially in therapy like some of you know like it's not fucking crystals. Don't do crystals. Anyway, we're into that in the show.

Licensed professionals. No, no, we're not into crystals. Just licensed professionals. It depends on if the meth is crystallized or not, but that's a different story for a different show. But Todd, let me get your dot coms or wherever you want people to find you on the internet. Sure. My website is get your dot coms or wherever you want people to find you on the internet.

My website is my name, toddsbarrett.com. You can also find me on social media and Instagram at yourdiagnonsense. And you have, I think it's, isn't it half a million followers if I recall rightly on Instagram? Yeah. There you go. A bunch of people. Yeah, people like you. I hope so. I think so.

I mean, they do. They love me. People love me. People hate me. I should find out what you're doing over there. That's not true. You entitled this, How to Love Someone Without Losing Your Mind. I think we know what that means, but clue us in as to why you chose that title.

That means that you're going to lose your mind. It's a bait and switch. There's no way to love someone to exist in the world currently or fast without losing your mind that it's just a part of being alive that is something that we all need to learn how to accept and tolerate but you don't have to lose your mind entirely and so the book is really um basically how to get your mind back how to get your mind back maybe maybe watch for some red flags yeah some red flags how to do away with the red flags, period, actually. I just work at like Formula One, man.

I blow through all those red flags and red lights, and that's just fun. Yeah, I mean, I'm less concerned with the red flags and the green flags and the yellow flags and more concerned with what they mean. Ah. What they mean, what the story is. Why the red flag in the first place. Yeah, I just blow through them all. Why you're in front

of the flag i mean well then there's meaning with that too why are you going through all the red flags i just blow all the red flags until i get stabbed i think that's my that's my relationship a little dangerous but i mean that's the vlog the sex is amazing though so todd you talk about forget the fairy tale now a lot of people you correct me if I'm wrong, but I'll just put this out there. So a lot of people do seem to have this fairy tale knowledge. You know, I'll meet guys and they're like, if only I could find the one. And, you know, there's the soulmate myth that's out there. And a lot of Disney stuff seems to have been played into things.

You know, women seem to be searching for the prince or the prince charming and stuff. So do we have a real issue with being in too much of a fairytale mindset when it comes to relationships? Yeah, we all do. I mean, this is what we grew up on. Even just the idea of a relationship lasting forever. I mean, it's in people's vows. But the reality is relationships are ending more than ever. And the idea of a perfect match or someone that will give you bliss on an ongoing basis is completely false but the reality also is that we still want it i think most people understand that the fairy tale is a fairy tale and a fantasy but that doesn't change the desire i mean i still want to don't want to have to date ever again and want to be with one person forever

but i know that the reality is that might not be true, that relationships end. I can't predict forever. But it's pretty oppressive, the narrative of a fairy tale. And it's something we've all internalized. We really embrace it. I've seen people who've been divorced like four times. I was talking to someone in one of my... And they're still looking for the one.

They're still looking for the one. They're like, I still believe in marriage. And I'm like, I'm not sure. I think you believe in the payout of the divorce, but that's another matter. But I think you believe in alimony, not marriage. Anyway, those are jokes, people. I'm just kidding. No, they're not.

But yeah, it's interesting to me how we still idolize it. We still want to find that person i imagine that's just our universal propagate the species our drive for social connection meaning maybe it's i guess it plays into all those different things maybe huh yeah i think also just people are really freaked the fuck out they don't want to experience any pain or suffering and so the idea the fantasy is that this perfect person will prevent any kind of pain or suffering. That's what it is. It's anxiety about suffering because we've all kind of invested in this belief that we can create or curate a version of life where suffering is minimal. Everything is healthy. If we follow certain rules, when the reality is that we're all kind

of unhealthy, Everyone's unhealthy. You know, it's not like we grow up and we learn how to be healthy ever. It's not like in school, there's a class about how to have relationships. It's all like math and geography, no relationships, no emotional awareness. And so because of that, we're all kind of just like crawling all over the ground, trying to figure our shit out. So it's really important to resist framing challenges as unhealthy. You know, these challenges that we have in life, the suffering that we experience is actually kind of normal. It's actually a piece of what it means to be alive.

Yeah. You know, I talk to people and there seems to be, you know, the rise of these incels and people in dating. They're like, I went on a date. I didn't like it or she didn't like me or he didn't like me. And now I hate dating. And I'll tell people, you know, yeah. It was a bad experience and I hate it and I'm deleting all the apps.

Yeah. And like, I've got a family member who's a 23-year-old incel. And he's a young man. I can't figure it out. Like he had one girl say no to him in high school and he hates women ever since. And, and I'm just like, man, if you, if you, if you quit after one girl tells you no, you got a long life ahead of you. Cause you're going to hear, you know, I probably heard a lot of notes in my life, you know, not everyone likes you. And I'll tell people, I'm like, not everyone

likes you. Do you, when you go to a job application, do you, do you quit? Cause the first one you went to, they didn't hire you. They didn't like you. Did you, you know, just about anything in life. Most people don't like you. One hundred ninety, 99% of the planet hates me personally. And they write me and tell me, no, I'm just kidding. But you know, it's kind of funny, this mindset that we have where we're really lazy or, I don't know, we just quit a lot in dating.

But, you know, we'll do everything else. We'll go on 100 job interviews. We'll, you know, do whatever it is, you know, go look at 100 houses or 100 cars to buy one. But, you know, we go on one date and we're just like, I give up. Well, a car, a house, you know, it's something that we can control. It's something that, you know, if you do certain things, if you have a certain amount of money, you can have it. Whereas a relationship is another person that you cannot control. And yeah, you're going to be told no, things are going to hurt, you're going to fall down, and you're going to have to get back up again.

Rupture in there, it's part of our life. Yeah. I mean, anything worth having takes a lot of work. And that's the other thing I talk to people about. I'm like, anything worth having takes a lot of work And that's the other thing I'll talk to people about I'm like anything worth having is a lot of work You know you just you can't this mindset where you go on I go on one date She's my soulmate and we and it's happily ever after what the fuck are you thinking? I? Think party that's the fairytale issue, maybe Yeah, I mean, I think there's also a lot of anxiety in that statement one person and it works and you you know

Nothing else is necessary after that. You don't want to get to know them. You don't want to let them get to know you. You want to skip everything and you just want to get to the part where you commit, which is a lot of anxiety. It's a lot of fast forwarding to something, the commitment part of a relationship or idealization part where, you know, we haven't actually done the work to get to know someone and to let them get to know us and to see if a relationship could actually work and so that starts from date one and so your book help leave that anxiety try and do stuff without losing your mind and going crazy with with this stuff and maybe be more rational with it accepting anxiety understand the anxiety and make better choices in the face of anxiety because that's the challenge is everyone is anxiety, and make better choices in the face of anxiety. Because that's the challenge.

Everyone has anxiety. We're all afraid of something. Life's pretty fucking scary. And so what do we do? We are either passive aggressive with the people that we love. We lash out. We say, okay, it didn't work out. I'm never doing this again.

You know, we tend to go to extremes with our anxiety because we're afraid. And so in the face of fear, we retreat. We withdraw. But it's actually in that withdrawal, in that retreat that we make ourselves powerless, small, invisible. And so the challenge is not to shed the anxiety or never to be afraid. That's ridiculous. Our brains simply, that's how our brains function.

There's really, there's actually fear-based systems in our bodies. So it's not something avoidable, but it is something to tolerate. And it is something that we can develop an acceptance of that culturally we just simply don't. You know, physical pain, physical illness. We say, oh, yeah, we tell people I have a headache. It's not a big deal. If we're sad one day, we're not going to tell somebody. We may take that sadness and philosophize about the whole future of our entire life.

And we're going to be sad forever. So there's a lot of challenge in terms of when we're confronted by these fears, what we do it and how we understand it there you go i i see people that break out of relationship i don't i don't you know i i i i'll see women that will say you know i had a bad relationship now i have a list of 500 rules that a man has to have when they meet him you know and is that is that part of that is anxiety building kind of walling off anxiety is that is that part of that is anxiety building kind of walling off anxiety is that is that kind of what you're doing and is it is it productive in terms of making the list of yeah or just you know just trying to you you're trying to vet harder and really what you're doing in my opinion is pushing people away and and making it harder

for people to get to know you. Yeah, and vice versa. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about your upbringing. What shaped you? What made you get into the business and eventually motivate you to write the book? Well, I entered the business as a client, a patient first. I've been in therapy for absolutely for 27 years. And it was in the relationship I had with a therapist I

met at 15 that really changed my life. And so that relationship and also just developing understanding about what was going on for me, both in my family, what's inside of me was really life-changing. And so because of that, I studied it in school and so on and so on. And that's how I got where I am. But it really comes from a personal place, from my own personal experiences, struggling, suffering, and therapy, and how therapy really, really helped me and saved my life in many ways. There you go. Therapy. Go to therapy. Everybody should go to therapy.

I mean, I really think everybody should be assigned a therapist at birth or some kind of coach, a therapist, a Sherpa, I don't know, a yoga teacher. I mean, something, somebody to help you get through life. I mean, parents can't do that. They literally can't do that and parent you and support you. And if you have siblings, I mean, you know, we need help. And it's really kind of shitty that we don't have this kind of built-in support system or prioritizing this kind of support in our lives. But it was really life changing for me. And if you haven't been to therapy, go. Go to a coach, go to therapy,

breathe deeply, read a book, read my book. There you go. Order the book wherever you find it. I don't love someone without losing your mind. I agree. I go on first dates and just hand out psychiatrist cards. I get some affiliate money, I think, from them. No, I don't think it's legal, but that's a joke, people. Don't write write me but i think about it hard though sometimes but you know therapy is so funny how the things that they focus on in schooling like they don't there should be a therapist in high school for everybody because it's hard school is hard but you know is hey we got to teach you algebra and how to dissect a frog. How about you teach me how to not be an emotional wreck and maybe get my psyche together?

That might be a better start. My emotions, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of people with childhood trauma. It would be nice if we could get that fixed before you're heading on the gate of life and all that good stuff. What are some other aspects we haven't talked about in your book that you tell people and want people to know? Well, I mean, there's many. One connected to the fairy tale is the idea of a relational ending. Everyone thinks that relationship endings are failures, are awful, and they demonize their partner or their ex. And the reality is that a relational

ending is actually really important. It's an important thing to be able to do to end a relationship, to go through a relational ending, and it's not a failure. I talk about how relational endings are similar to relational beginnings in terms of how transformative they are, how much we change, how much we grow. It's just the challenge, again, comes back to the way we approach relational endings culturally. Whereas, you know, at the beginning, we celebrate love, we have Valentine's day and weddings and anniversaries and baby showers and all this shit. But when it comes to a relational ending, we ignore it. We pretend like you cry for one day, maybe you go on a retreat and then you get over it and you move on and you date somebody else. But it's actually a life-changing experience. And it's actually something that really should

be honored in a same exact way that any beginning of a relationship or marriage or whatever is honored and celebrated. That people really should be celebrating the end of a relationship as it marks the beginning of a new life, just as the beginning of a new relationship does. It's something really important. It's so bizarre how culturally people are getting divorced, relationships are ending, and we're still kind of acting as if three months and then you move on. That's kind of it.

That's how we approach relational endings. But it's a really intense experience. It can take a long time to move on, whatever that even means. I don't know. But it's also a huge place of growth, which is pretty fucking cool. Yeah. And so you're saying reframe it on your perspective instead of seeing it as like a massive failure you know you've destroyed your life or whatever

perception you want to put on it maybe reframe it as to as to you know hey this is just part of life and and i've got a new life coming yeah i mean quite literally it's a new life and usually our lives improve. Our subsequent relationships are better. If we can learn from the mistakes we made in our past relationships. Wait, we have to do that? No. Yes.

You have to take responsibility. No, we just take that. You just blame your partner who is all their fault. They're just a toxic narcissist. Not you. Not me. I could never do anything wrong. No, but a lot of people do that they just blame

their ex they say it was a toxic shitty relationship and they don't learn from it whole idea of ending a relationship is to learn from it and and probably some have some self accountability maybe yeah even if they were a toxic narcissist or an asshole what brought you to be with them why were you with them what stopped you from ending it sooner? There's a lot to learn. Definitely. And, and, you know, I can, this narcissistic thing, this narcissist thing has become just an epidemic in the dating world and Tik TOK and probably Instagram too, I think, I don't know. But I mean, you go on dates with women and, and, and I'll hear that the last 10 boyfriends were all narcissists. And I just sit there and just, yeah. on dates with women, and I'll hear that the last 10 boyfriends were all narcissists.

And I just sit there and just, yeah, and you're just, and we've had a lot of psychologists like yourself on the show, and there's only, I think it's 12% or 5% of America is truly a diagnosed. Less than 5. Yeah, less than 5, diagnosed narcissist. And you're like, honey, did you go to the narcissist 3m clinic and just pick up i mean two percent of a population that's like billions is actually a lot but i mean i don't even care i mean i don't even care it means they are or they aren't you know i mean the question what was your experience and people are using the word narcissist as a label to categorize and to group

people in and in the process of doing that, they're avoiding themselves. They're avoiding their story. They're avoiding, you know, even if they were a horrible and narcissistic person, they're avoiding, again, what brought them there, what the story is that caused them to be drawn to somebody that was toxic. Most of the time, you know, we might be misinterpreting someone's behavior. And so the real goal, narcissism or not, is to one, be more curious with ourselves, again, why, who, what, when, why, but also to express curiosity about the other person as well. And that doesn't have to absolve them of all of the ways in which they've mistreated you if they have, but it does require us to be more curious and compassionate about, okay, so someone's acting

like a jerk. Why is that? Why are they acting like an asshole? What's the story behind that? And, you know, maybe you don't have to show that type of compassion for someone you went on one date with, but when it comes to a parent, a sibling, a partner, a friend, you know, this is the type of curiosity we want to show people that we love. It's really crucial and important. And when people break up, you know, the one thing I learned in dating all my life is anybody who's been divorced or in a long-term relationship, they usually need about two to three years to go through the grieving process and then establish their new identity. Do you think that is that an accurate sort of process? Is that what really needs to happen?

No. No. There's really no rule about how much time someone needs. That's kind of like the idea of do you wait to have sex on a date or do you have sex on the first date? You know, I mean, I would encourage people to have sex right away before the first date, have it virtually. But, you know, I mean, all of these rules, they're individually defined. I mean, some people, you know, a relationship ending oftentimes ends way before it actually ends. And also, if somebody is doing tons of work in therapy,

reading books, I don't know, learning from their past, and meets someone that they really love, you know, they can be in a relationship with them. But it's important, nonetheless, to continue to do that work and to, again, not just blame your ex and say they were terrible and toxic, and then move on blindly. You know, you really do want to be developing some awareness

about what happened in that relationship. You also want to be sharing that with your new partner and asking them about their past relationships as well. But there's no real kind of hard and fast rule about like how long to wait. Because I mean, look, I'm sure you know, many people as do I, that ended a relationship, fell in love with somebody six months later, and they've been together for a long time. You know, shit happens. But sometimes people do need a long time. It's really just individually specific. It's about preference. It's kind of like, do you like spicy food or not?

Yeah, because sometimes you'll go on a date with somebody who's been divorced or broke out of a long-term relationship, and their head's still going around. They'll start talking about the ex, and you're like, you're not clean yet on this. You haven't cleared this out yet. You're still there in grieving and anger mode. And then sometimes, you know, you meet them and they're still figuring out who they are, who their new identity is because their old identity was, you know,

I was married and this is the team I was on and now they're on their own and they're trying to figure out what they like and what they're about. And so sometimes you meet them and they seem to be going through that process, you know, and they're playing the market and having fun. You're like, just let me know when you figure out who you are and you're settled down and stuff. I don't know. The other thing, you know, people always think I'm weird because I think I'm fairly healthy in my mind,

but that's the narcissistic delusion I have because I have a lot of dark triad traits. Full disclosure, folks. No way. But I'll tell people, all my relationships, 50-50. It takes two to tango. I was raised in that generation of it takes two to tango is what we'd always say when people broke up. And I appreciate all my exes. I don't have any problems with them. I don't have any issues.

If I met them today, I'd be like, thank you. It was nice you know that time and we we were 50 52 people trying to figure out with you know the mess which we both were and i don't blame them for anything i take responsibility for you know i probably was the best guy and they probably weren't the best girl and you know we're we're probably at some stage in our life where we weren't perfect you know but now i am but And that's kind of how I look at it. And I think that's pretty healthy, right? Yeah, that's awesome.

Yeah. I mean, hitting your exes. That's a red flag. Yeah. It's just when you see people, especially when you're trying to turn your children against your ex. I think that's really bad on either side. I discourage that when i when i see that when i come into a relationship and there's one person either the

wife or the husband that's just trying to poison their kid's mind hating the ex and you're like that's that's the father of your children or the mother of your children knock it off i don't know i'm just people separate through anger they don't want to deal with their sadness they don't want to deal with their grief and so it's a lot easier to separate it through anger they don't want to deal with their sadness they don't want to deal with their grief and so it's a lot easier to separate it through anger and so that's what people do and if they have kids, sometimes they involve their kids which is really, really horrible

it's fucked up and you're right about fixing these things early on when you come out of the relationship dealing with them, reconciling them I've seen people that I've seen people at four or five marriages. I think I saw one at a fifth marriage and she was still, she would get upset at her

men for looking at another woman and she would flip out if he was looking at a woman or possibly cheating. I mean, he lived under a 24 hourhour 24-7 you know you're cheating sort of thing and eventually all five men that she had married she eventually drove to cheat and i i've been in that situation with one where you're just like you know i might as well cheat because i've just been hearing that i'm a cheater for a year being accused of stuff you just finally give up but you see you know this example of the patterns that people have if they don't reconcile their issue with their early relationships. They just drag the baggage and the damage from one relationship to another.

And I'm 56 now, and I can see that in the patterns of people when I talk to them. Because I can be like, how did your first two marriages go? How were your relationships through the thing? And there's a pattern you can see where they're picking the same people, they're having the same experiences, and they're just, they never fix themselves. Yeah. I mean, that's why, you know, when someone's talking about their ex, it's important information to learn about. Most people are dating and have no idea about their partner, future partner's history, whether that's relational history or childhood history.

It's actually an important piece. If you're dating somebody, you want to know about their past relationships and not as a way to analyze and try to look for red flags, but to gain a real kind of get some real information about who they are relationally and what type of work they've done. And you also want to share about your relational history and share with them similar things. It's also pretty connective to kind of to talk to somebody about, you know, where did we go wrong in the past? What are we working on? It's a really, it's a big way to deepen intimacy. Should you ask somebody when they talk to you about their relationships and maybe how they failed? Should you ask somebody, so what have you done to reconcile that or make sure that you don't have those sort of patterns in the future? Yeah, of course.

Ask. No, be direct. Ask. I mean, if you're dating somebody for a relationship, don't dance around the subject. What have you done to learn? What have you done in response to that? I mean, you don't have to be obnoxious about it. You can say, yeah, I mean, that sounds really hard i just think similar you know have you done any work on

some of that you know can we start a thing where where you have to show up at dates with a therapist referral can we can we start that maybe dating app where you know you have to you have to have a referral from your therapist and be like yeah so, so-and-so is clear. Or just so-and-so is actively working on themselves. I mean, I think therapy has been so stigmatized as this place that crazy people go to, but it's really for all people. And to me, it's a sign of strength. When I got out of my relationship and I started dating again, I would not date somebody who hadn't been to therapy.

Really? That's me personally. I don't want to encourage or discourage. But for me personally, yeah, it was important to me that somebody had done work on themselves. And if they hadn't and I liked them, then I was like, well, have you read any books lately? Do you do meditation? What do you do?

Do you think? Do you reflect? You know, I mean, for me, that's important to be with somebody who can think, be a little bit deeper and understand themselves in their life yeah but i also understand that people have getting access to therapy is pretty hard finances aside i mean i recently looked for a couple therapists and it was like absolutely impossible and i'm a therapist you know it's really hard to find a therapist and to then go but still i really you know that was something i looked for when i was dating there's teletherapy now i think isn't there is that is that a good is, I really, you know, that was something I looked for when I was dating. There's teletherapy now, I think, isn't there? Is that a good way, you know, maybe if your

budget is low or you can't find one in a locale, you're in a rural area, maybe that's a good way to go. Yeah, I mean, there are tons of options. Teletherapy, virtual therapy with a therapist in a different state. There you go. Most of my therapy is cocaine and hookers in Vegas. Is that a bad thing? Is it the cocaine or is it the hookers? Which should I choose? No comment. Just do both.

Don't do that, folks. We don't do drugs on the show. Stop it. So anyway, the one thing I was going to ask you about, you led into, was I used to joke before I got really healed from the trauma that I had as a child and I feel that I'm healed now I recently took someone's quiz about attachment styles and things like that and I'm going to ask you about that in a second and it said I was securely attached so clearly I don't need any therapy work I mean you could tell the talking to me right I seem for sure all the list

you know all the criteria yeah yeah you're just sitting over there writing going this guy we're just committed yeah i'm committed right now so i used to joke that if i ever went into the relationship that i would probably start doing couples therapy immediately and try and see if that could be preventative work you know you know work out work out the things as they come up maybe you know and and try and you know you know try to solve everything when you're 10 years or 2 years or 5 years into the relationship and you have a pile of problems and garbage and things to argue about. That seems like a really hard thing to unweave. But maybe, would there be any smartness in doing that? Yeah, that's a wonderful idea. I mean,

the challenge is as you're describing is oftentimes I'm seeing couples who have been together for decades and they have a pre-established routine and the relationship is defined by rules that are wildly dysfunctional, which is why they're coming into therapy as opposed to couples who are able to go to therapy early on before those dynamics have been firmly established before they become rules or how each partner interacts with each other. That would be great. I mean, people should go to therapy early on. It's just unfortunate because culturally, you know, most people would say it's

too soon. I shouldn't have to go to therapy. It's only been, it's been under a year. It's only been a year. The people often think they should be operating the relationships alone. And that's a cultural issue that we've internalized. But the reality is that, you know, I don't know. We have financial advisors. We have all sorts of advisors. And we do this from day one often. So we shouldn't be thinking about our relational wellness in any different way than our financial wellness.

It's kind of like changing the oil in your car every 3,000 miles. Check in. Make sure everything's going okay. Maybe every six months or every three months or, you know, for me every other day, find out what I'm doing wrong all the time and, you know, just make sure that stuff's going. Let's talk about you, what you do. I think, how can people work with you if they want to reach out to you and have you be their therapist, et cetera, et cetera. There are a few different ways you can work with me one-on-one as an individual or couple. I have an online program, which is more of a group approach where I'll see you every other week in my group, or you can buy my book. And I also have

a practice where I have other clinicians that work for me that I could refer you to. But right now, I don't actually have any openings to work with people, but on my online program, you can work with me or I can help refer you to a therapist in my practice group. There you go. And what website can they go to for that? My website, toddsbarrett.com. There you go. Get those plugs in.

Now, do you work with people across the nation? Are you limited by a certain state license? I work with people all over. It really just depends on what they're looking for. If it's more deep therapy, like coaching, relational coaching, it just depends depends i just encourage people to reach out and you do sex therapy as well yep i'm a sex therapist certified yeah and so you help people you explain the birds and the bees to them and the birds and the bees and all that stuff right yes but sex is about so much more than sex it's usually about a lot of relational anxiety so yeah people often just just talking about clits and dicks all day.

But performance anxiety is about relational anxiety. I mean, most of what I talk about in sex therapy is anxiety. Yeah, because once you, you know, I, well, the reason I never even married is because I know a lot of married guys. And they're living in these sexless marriages. And I'm just like, that sounds like hell. You know, I've known guys that live 10, 15 years in a sexless marriage. And I'm like, that's a really expensive best friend you have. I mean, it's pretty common marriage or not.

Long-term relationships, desire always declines. It doesn't really matter. So there's, I mean, I don't know. I seem to have heard some people. I mean, maybe they're outliers. They seem to have bigger sex. Most people. I mean, maybe they're outliers. Some. They seem to have bigger sex. For most people, the desire declines, yeah, after some time in a relationship.

So that's why you do polygamy or you get mistresses? Is that what you do? No? No? Oh. I'll have to note to self, stop the mistresses. Anyway, final thoughts as we go out todd on your book what's inside of it and how people should work to you work with you you can go to toddaspirates.com pick up my book

if you want to know yourself better and have better relationships there you go i'm recommending it to everybody because i've dated all my life i know a lot of people who need it maybe i should go back through my book and just start mailing it to people. I'll mail it to myself. Mail it to everyone. Thank you, Todd, for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. Thank you for having me.

Thank you for coming, and thanks to Ronis for tuning in. As always, order the book wherever fine books are sold. Stay away from those alleyway bookstores because you might get stabbed or robbed. It's entitled How to love someone without losing your mind forget the fairy tale and get real i love that line get real people damn it you should make sure to that so there you go refer the show to your family friends and relatives go to goodreads.com for chest chris voss linkedin.com for chest chris voss chris voss one of those crazy places on the interwebs. Thanks for tuning in.

Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time. And that should do us out.