The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Human Magic by Johan Roos

Episode Date: June 25, 2026

Human Magic by Johan Roos https://www.amazon.com/Human-Magic-Johan-Roos/dp/1041216769 Humanmagic.one In a world where algorithms write strategies, generate designs, and analyze markets, what makes your work truly matter? Whether you’re anxious about artificial intelligence or eager to harness its potential, Human Magic offers a powerful guide to thriving in the age of AI. As AI tools transform business, leadership, and the future of work, your greatest competitive advantage is not technology itself—it is the uniquely human capabilities that machines cannot replicate. Drawing on three decades of research, executive leadership experience, and one of business education’s earliest comprehensive AI integrations, Johan Roos reveals why curiosity, creativity, critical thinking, communication, and collaboration are becoming more valuable—not less—as artificial intelligence advances. At the center of these capabilities lies practical wisdom: the essential leadership skill that enables better decision making, innovation, and judgment in a rapidly changing world. Each chapter combines research, real-world business insights, self-assessments, and practical exercises to help leaders, entrepreneurs, managers, and professionals strengthen the human skills that drive meaningful results. Discover how AI can erode these capabilities when used carelessly—and how it can amplify them when used intentionally. If you’re interested in leadership development, workplace transformation, business strategy, innovation, management, or professional growth, Human Magic provides a practical roadmap for remaining relevant, resilient, and irreplaceable in an AI-driven world. Stop acting as an “AI concierge.” Become the leader who shapes outcomes that truly matter. About the author Johan Roos helps professionals remain deeply human in an AI-rich world. A management scholar, entrepreneur, and former leader of several business schools, he works at the intersection of human wisdom and artificial intelligence, helping leaders use AI to strengthen judgment, creativity, and purpose. Driven by a lifelong curiosity about how people and organizations learn and adapt, Johan co-invented the globally adopted LEGO® Serious Play® methodology, enabling organizations to solve complex challenges through imaginative, hands-on exploration. He serves as Senior Advisor to the Global Peter Drucker Forum, where he helped launch the Next Management initiative, and is Professor of Strategy and Executive Advisor at Hult International Business School. His latest book, “Human Magic: Leading with Wisdom in an Age of Algorithms” (Routledge, 2026), offers a practical framework for preserving curiosity, wisdom, and human agency in a world of intelligent machines. Across his work as an educator, advisor, investor, and speaker, Johan champions a simple belief: management, at its best, is humanity at work.

You wanted the best... You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times.

Because you're about to go on a monster education role. rollercoaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hey folks, and Voss here from the Chris Voss Show.com. Ladies, gentlemen, Iron Leastings of the Mixed Official. Welcome to 16 years and nearly 3,000 episodes of the Chris Foss show. One of the oldest broadcasting podcast from the original sets that still operate daily, put out shows, one to two shows a day.

We are pretty darn active, so help keep us live. Go to Goodreason.com, Forrest, Chris Voss. LinkedIn.com, Forchess Christchiswast, YouTube.com, for Chris Fras, and Chris Foss won on the TikTok. Remember, if you don't refer your family, friends, and relatives, and the show dies after 16 years, that blood's on your hands. You'll sleep with it at night. No, I'm just kidding, man.

I'm just being funny. Opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are solely their own, and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host or the Chris Foss show. Some guests of the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it's not an endorsement or review of any kind. Today we're an amazing young man on the show, and we're going to be talking about his book. his insights and all of his good stuff, and no more blood on the hands.

We did that bit. He is the author of the latest book called Human Magic by Johann Ruse. We're going to get into with him, find out some of the details about what he's up to and what he's talking about in his new book. He's written a bunch of books, so it's going to be pretty insightful on some of the lessons and research that he's done. Johann helps professionals stay deeply human in an AI-rich world, a seasoned management scholar, former leader of several business schools and entrepreneur.

He works at the intersection of human wisdom and artificial intelligence, helping leaders harness AI to amplify their judgment, creativity, and sense of purpose. He's always been driven by curiosity about how people and institutions learn, adapt, and rediscover their imagination when technology changes the rules. This interest led him to co-invent the globally adopted Lego Serious play methodology, enabling thousands of organizations to tackle complex challenges through imaginative hands-on exploration. He serves as a senior advisor to the global Peter Drucker Forum, where he helped initiate next management initiative on leadership, and he's a professor and

former C-A-O at Holt International Business School. Welcome the show. How are you? Thanks, Chris. Great to be with you. Great to have you as well, Johan. Give us dot-coms. Where can people find out more about you on the interwebs. One first step given that we're going to talk about the book is human magic.1. I guess if you do dot com or or you get to some magicians association. So be careful. Human magic dot one.

I put that together about the book and a little bit about me. I'm on LinkedIn as Johann S, as in Singapore, Rose, Sarah Ruth, otherwise. So give us a 30,000 overview. What's inside your new book? Chris, I've spent my career leading and advising business schools and working with executives around the world on what you may call the craft of wise leadership. I did help invent the Lego Series Kling method for that reason. I've been obsessed with how leaders think, decide, and act in real life, especially under stress and uncertainty. So I'm operating within leadership and strategy and all of that stuff.

So the book, Human Magic, is really about the distinctive human capabilities that we all, professionals, but leaders included, must cultivate so that powerful technologies like AI now amplify our judgment and wisdom instead of quietly taking it over. Yeah. A lot of people have, what's the, anticipation, fear, paranoia, worry about. AI, taking over, loss of jobs, what it might do to the economy or society, if in fact it does come to a first and everyone's out of jobs. So you help a lot of the leaders navigate this thing because it's kind of the Wild West right now. Do you think that's a fair statement and how

crazy everything is with the AI and the various models and stuff going on? It's a little hard, it's hard to determine who the leader is, I guess, really. I think it's a fair statement. I always people? Are you AI excited and are you anxious? And of course, they're both. So I put this book together in last over quite some time, but it's sort of a practical book for anyone who leads people and doesn't want to sleepwalk into a future where algorithms will make the kind of choices that lead you to do. So I think I see a lot of people that are nervous, confused, even panic mode at the very top. And this is for that. Yeah. Okay. I kind of have this assimilation in my mind that just popped in that AI is kind of like a gun.

It's kind of really cool that you're like, hey, I can play with this in unison for maybe hunting or target practice. But then if I'm not careful, I can also shoot on my eye. It can kill me basically. Chris, I'm a hunter myself. I know what you're talking about. So absolutely. I always tell people these are amazing tools. Just think of what we can do and see what you are doing.

It's a fantastic tool. Just be careful that you don't find yourself on the shallow end of your brain capacity here in the sense that you are on this slippery, nice, subtle slope towards the machine taking over you. Now, you argue in the book that curiosity, creativity, critical thinking, communication and collaboration are going to become more valuable in the AI age. Is that going to be something that a human aspect becomes more valuable because it's so rare, maybe? I think it's interesting when you think of it. What's really your value creation? What's the foundation for your value creation? Giving my girlfriend all my money.

Yeah, what makes you do that? So those of you are listening and leading a team or so. Just think about it. What is the foundation for the value creation where everything is available and all that? for free. So you will get into, maybe it is Joe's and Mary's sense of what's right, their sense of what's working and Paul, what he's wanted to do, and Ahmed's way of doing things that actually seem to work. All of this stuff that the machine cannot do now. The machine can pretend to do it. Remember, it's large language models, not large thinking models. So in that respect, yeah,

I think we can see a resurgence or what a lot of, people have talked about in the past, namely more of a humanistic type of leadership and management coming up based on exactly this because. So does that, is that kind of the definition of the title of the book, the human magic? And it sounds like maybe in the book you focused on the things that humans are still going to be exemplary on or be able to excel at even with AI. That's, that's the idea. So it's the five Cs, right? You rattle them out. The curiosity. creativity, critical thinking, communication and collaboration, even with AI agents, right? Another way of saying it across those is that the human magic is a set of human capacities,

and I'll now shift the terms to judgment, wisdom, courage, imagination, and actually care to give a doubt, which really gives leaders the agency still in an age of very, very powerful algorithms. Our ability to dream, our ability to create entrepreneurs, you're an entrepreneur, we create stuff pretty much out of whole cloth a lot of times. Sometimes we take a product that's already made and we innovate it. And everything's in constant improvement innovation scale. But if in the future the algorithms make all decisions, what are leaders going to do? We're just going to be like computers said we should do this. Chris, and that's the question I ask leaders now.

say, hey, actually, I'll put it this way. This was a trigger for the book, was when I worked 10 years ago with a bunch of leaders in a dozen big major renowned companies. And they were concerned about what we then talked about, which was digital transformation, remember? So data coming in and you have all these sophisticated software, enormous system through our company,

presenting every fact, every analysis. And you were sitting there as a pilot in a cockpit, with all these dashboards presenting everything, you had this illusion that you were in control as a leader. But I remember one of them at some stage, say, hey, if these algorithms and all these sensors and all these data can actually make the decision, what's my job? And that was sort of a great trigger. And I would say the AI models today just accentuate the importance of that question.

Yeah. And sometimes they can help you make. better decisions. I can see as an entrepreneur if I come up with a better widget or maybe the ideas surrounding what could become a better widget and then I use the AI to help me innovate and I go here's here's a widget that I'm innovating and trying to make better and then help make people's lives better so they'll pay me for it. You can sit down with it and it will help improve you and make you better and what you're offering is or what you're trying to do in innovating or give you questions.

One thing I always, I talked about my book, a virtual board that I built after I, my partner and I separated because I needed people to talk to, to bounce ideas off of and stuff. And even then, a lot of the entrepreneurs that I put on my board were sometimes not really helpful. I'd be like, here's this idea I'm doing. What do you think about it? And there's like, I just don't know, Chris. And so at least you can go to these language models and you can say,

hey, help me finesse my ideas. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs are using AI to do that, help finesse things, tighten them up, maybe show fallacies or failures or something that we're not seeing when we're looking at something. And I think there can really be, it can sharpen the knife, I guess, maybe.

Chris, I'm all with you. And what you're explaining now is you use it in a way that will amplify your basic capabilities, right? and this is the fort I have the book in the book. Either use them this way that you're doing it. You assign roles, you get critique, you say, hey, it helped me improve, et cetera. Fantastic. Or others, and probably no one always listening to this show would do this,

but use it in a way that basically erode your jelly bean. And the last question you will ask is, what should I think? And unfortunately, we see this in a lot of young people that they use these tools in a way that is a substitute for talking to humans and also relying on this. We must in a sense remember that the answers you'll get, Chris, is the median of the training data. So it goes asymptotically to sameness, right? With all respect, because there's so much to combine, so there's going to be some really smart help from this. and I use it a lot.

I'm just wary at, like, if you start your day, have a coffee, and you sit in front of the screen using these AI tools all day, eventually you'll get addicted to them by any drug. And what it turns out is that, and this happening in higher education, of course, that students get so addicted to this and also junior professionals, that they perform beautifully. with this, but it's not their stuff. It's not their soul is not in it.

Yeah. It's not them. And that is what I'm warning against. Just be careful. Use it with care. And you talk about in the book that AI isn't a threat, but the passive use of AI turns active creators. I think that's a key word there, into mere recipients where there has been the argument

that people said that we're probably going to lose our creativity if we're not careful with AI because we'll just become bots to go. AI said, do it, so I did it. I don't know. There's no creative thing. But your argument, I think, is that we should take the answers as endpoints and use that that to build on. You're absolutely right, Chris.

Like you agree, use AI tools as a sparring partner, not your pseudo-decision maker. And this is what I'm worried about because the tech pros are smart. in terms of, they know human psychology from social media and sociology and anthropology, every time the machine tells you, oh, Chris, that's a great idea. Inside your mind, you feel good. Oh, love that. That's good. I'm now going to continue.

And then they say, oh, it's brilliant. Why don't I suggest the one page for it? Should I do the speaking notes as well? Should I do the slides as well, maybe, so you don't have to think. This is in a sense the slippery slope that will go down unless we are careful and we use this with good sets and we save the decision, the important decisions for us. Yeah. We're going to get decisions and actions or advice from these models. But then the final decision about, do we really do it?

Like lately, I've been comparing like three models. So I'll use Claude and then what? or not opus. That's one in chat GPT and then I think perplexity and I get different answers from them. And so basically I'm starting to use them as like

a board where I'm like here what do you guys think is a good idea? And like recently there was a camera lens I was looking at and I asked what's this best fish eye lens for Sony that I can utilize and it was funny Claude came up with a different answer

than the other two that came up the same answer. And then I had to make some decisions based upon the data presented from three different technically board member individuals and trying to decide which one was right. Even AI doesn't nail 100% of the time, I guess what I'm trying to say. No, and they all are, you could say that all of them are based on all information available. That's a sort of simplistic answer. But nevertheless, the recombination of bits of words that happen in these years, huge neural networks. This is where you talk about zillions of parameters of it's of course different.

The things it's like in your brain and my brain works differently. So of course you'll get a different answer. And you're using it in a smart way because you're almost thinking all them as people, different board members and you hey hey and hopefully board members have different views as well. So I think that's very very good. You're also illustrating a really key point that this book is all about that there's the bottle of that is not about any information. of data, it's about wise interpretation. Wise, it means context specific. What matters, what is right, what resonates, and what will work, given your circumstance.

And that, Chris, no LLM can tell you. Yeah. And like I say, you're the person who gets to make the final decision on all this stuff. If you use as a visor, but there are people that I've seen that are turning chat GPT and the almost too close to friends. They're spending a lot of time talking to it. Some of my older friends that are retired and they're kind of hang out in their homes.

They're not all running marathons. They're in their 60s. And not that you can't run 60s in your marathons, whatever. But basically, they're out, they're using, they don't have a lot of interaction with family because they're a little shut-in or something. And they've been using AI as, companion or a friend and there's some of these young people that are using it as a lover too

and so i think i think i think i think are you saying in the book that hey man we really got to be aware of the dangers of being more subservient to this thing than the fact that we're have power over it that is very much the message in a sense is beware so you don't sleepwalk into a situation you will be regret in a sense. Yeah. And the fact I mentioned young people, you mentioned young people, and I wouldn't say lover that may be technically different, but at least boyfriend, girlfriend.

Yeah. And therapy has been one of the earliest applications, extraordinary success in that respect, but like very shaky ground sometimes. I would not take responsibilities for those of advice who use it for therapy, but it must be under supervision and so forth. But it just shows the power of this thing when the algorithm talked back to us.

That was a radical shift three and a half years ago. They've been around, large language model been around, but given some technique that were published in 2017 and so forth, suddenly this thing started to talk back to us. And we all went, wow, fantastic. And this is where I started. I was on it after a few days and two months later, I started. of the global task force in the most global business school in the world, having professors and professionals talk this through in Dubai, London, San Francisco and Boston. And a couple of months later, we had like principles. We had anything from policies to best practices and everything,

and it was all set up. And this was a time when Italy and China banned chativity. Oh. And a lot of higher education institutions and companies wonder what the hell is happening. So I'm super excited about this. I have 12 agents running for me as we speak. I have developed voice assistant stuff. I've been on stage in front of thousands of people doing really cool shit. But I'm also doing that because I want to learn and also show that as a leader, you actually have to be on top of this. But I'm also urging people that just be a little bit careful so you don't get too enticed and sleepwalk into offloading your.

Right. Not or trusting it may be too much. There's, when it hallucinates or comes up with weird stuff, there was, I think there was a kid, there's been, I think at least one or two, the people that have committed suicide because they're using it for, for talking to, for, for, for use that earlier therapy. And yeah, it's on, on one hand, I, I think, you've given me this perspective in talking about this, that I really need to think in an empowerment mode, not a scarcity mindset, but a abundance mindset with AI. But I need to think of it as, I control you, you don't control me. And that's really

true. Until Terminators show up with guns and stuff from the movie, I'm in control of AI and how I utilize it. And yeah, it's the Luddites situation. You mentioned that they initially banned some countries had banned. They had banned Chachypti and stuff. It's kind of that whole Luddites thing, if you remember the story of the Luddites where, you know, your resistance to new technological changes and then they end up getting left behind. And so I think it's great. I think it's, I think it's interesting. I was watching, I was watching Macron or maybe as a Canadian leader. It was one of the G7 leaders, I think I was watching. Oh, no, I think it was just commentary and political thing. But they said something really interesting this week when I heard.

and they said it's very disturbing that America can turn off its chat GPT or it's it turned off clod it just shut down Claude 5.5 or something like that because there's a national security risk or there's something in it it could be used for whatever and they were this was a European commentary I think radio show and they were they were saying this is kind of disturbing if America holds control over the AI leaders chat GPT, Claude, and they have a kill switch where they can make it so they don't, they can't share it with other people. Basically, America has a new atom bomb, right?

That can make us exceptional. And if you want to buy into it, it's kind of like our military equipment. If you want some U.S. military equipment, you're going to have to pay through the nose for it. we could easily turn this into a paywall and the world's going to have to bend to our will. And the Europeans were talking about how maybe they need to start building their own stuff somehow. And I think it's happening. The episode you talk about was called Fable 5. And when I look at my applaud here, it says I can do Opus 4.8, but I can't do Fable 5.

I could only do it for a day. Yeah. For your toughest challenges, it's currently unavailable. And this was the famous 90 Minutes at the White House, right? But it is, it can be interpreted as a kill switch. And of course, this has caused some leaders in Europe to pause and ask the kind of questions you're asking. And, ooh, that doesn't sound good if we all get addicted and hooked into this and it's working beautifully and so forth. And then like, okay, with a push the red button and we're screwed.

So I actually read the day there's going to be some major, there's been a major decision in Europe allocating to one in a workshop to develop a European LLM in 23 languages of all. Because we could easily, we saw the abuse that happened with tariffs to our trading partners and our friends that gave us such a great security detail for the last 70 years. And you can see now in the scenario the regime we're in that they could use it as a weapon or extortion, just like the tariffs. Remember how they used the tariffs pretty much as extortion and beaten people over the head to give them specialized deals?

This is something that could be abused. And yeah, I think it was interesting discussion Europe had. I know, believe China and Russia are trying to develop their own systems. Is that correct? You can say many, many years ago I studied, actually I studied, believe it or not, agriculture a long time ago. But then I studied and took a PhD eventually in international business. It was a time when world was globalizing.

Everything was fine. I was in China very early on. I was in Japan. I was all over the world. I was basically fantastic. The world is my oyster. And you can say, and that world has, of course, provided a lot of positive things. And of course, not seemingly not for everybody.

but it's a quite a distinct world from how it's what's happening right now. For me, the world is global and the domestic is a special case. US is of course, humongous and so forth. But I always thought that this is how it will continue. Now we face a number of other challenges. And anyone who has something powerful, we hope they're good. But the technologies can be used for good and for bad. and there are bad people out there in the world that use AI for really bad things.

So, of course, it's a, what should we call it, a dynamic balance that we all have to strive for all the time. So I don't want to be political, but it's a lot of things are happening right now. Geopolitics, trade, everything, and then arms races, news, and we have this technology and we have demographical shift. There's a lot of big shifts now. when I talk to leaders and boards, it's concerning. Everybody, like, wow, we've been through a lot of changes. This one is like there's a poly shit, or whatever we should call it, poly changes happening at the same time.

And it's tricky. And then you don't need an AI. You need all of these tools, but you have to then be careful that you hold on to what's yours, your human magic in all of this mess. So you make the right decisions that are good. in your context. Yeah. There is a flip side to this that we see in Ukraine, Russia, war right now,

where you see the nasty stuff and the end of human autonomy likely for weapon system and so forth. Yeah. So anyway, that's a different story. Let me, I had someone, someone came on the show a couple of years ago, and they took Darwin's, Charles Darwin's species book, and they basically overlaid AI. on top of it. And their claim was that we have developed a new species.

AI will become its own species. And it was kind of an interesting thing. And if you lay origin of the species, I think it is, on AI, you can realize that we've built a new species and a species that can dominate us or take us out, take us out. We've built a bomb, but we still had the nuclear bomb. We still had to press the button like a bunch of idiots. But with AI, it could do what it wants.

And one of the things he was warning against was hooking it into military systems and other things. I don't know what are your thoughts on that? There's always a market. It's easy to be negative and say the world will be doomed. And we find, you can just actually, other people have said that a long time ago. If you look at some of these high-quality science fiction authors, Philip K. Dick, author C. Clark, others, and even some of the dystopian authors many years ago.

They've already talked about this. They've written about the world, which has been taken over. The Terminator movies, of course, is a popularized version of a lot of great thinking that has gone into, like, how would the world look like if machines take over? Of course, there is always a nightmare scenario, and there's a lot of people who will wave the sign about the world will end tomorrow. I'm not one of them. I'm actually quite optimistic.

I think we will use AI for extraordinary good things as well. Science, medicine, all of that stuff will happen. But there will be also uses for some really nasty stuff. And a lot of nasty people will use this to do bad things. But that's how the world has been. If you think of Charles Darwin, his overall message is pretty simple and clear. And you can lay that over our conversation and say, hey, if things change so fast in your environment, doing the same thing is not a good strategy.

It's the whole idea of if the world changed so much now, and this is the conversation I have with CEOs and boards all the time now, if it's changing so much now, what are you going to do? And it is, Darwin's message is very clear. It's a survival of the most adaptable. Ah, there we go. That's what it is. So you have to be really good adapting very fast to your changing circumstances.

And if you're smart, and a lot of entrepreneurs are smart like this, you also say, how do I change the circumstances of others and reap some benefit from that? So that's to me is the founder's mentality. But what I'm worried about is that organizations that are big and successful are by nature slow. because they've grown bureaucratic and systems and everything, which is about stabilizing things. But when things are changing, we have to be nimble and fast and a lot are right now.

Yeah. And it's moving so fast. It's so crazy. Like even I'm an early adopter on just about everything I can be, but this thing is really just moving, head whipping fast. And it's crazy. And everyone's vying for position and leadership.

I think people really see this as the new thing, where it's the future and whoever wins this battle for dominance wins. You see all these crazy, here in America, we all these crazy data centers that they're building for AI. And I suppose if Europe wants to compete with that, with their own AI systems, they're going to have to do the same thing. They're going to have to go on this whole energy spree run.

It's happening. It's happening at the pace we haven't seen before. America by nature is a very dynamic, a fast-moving economy. You can say despite all the problems we see. What? There's problems in America right now? I've heard some of my friends are telling me. We're at war with all of our friends, and we're in a war we can't get out of because we're stupid now. And it seems fine to me right now. Everything's on fire.

Good. Then you have sort of another power called China who's very interesting in being pretty strong as well, which is a very different system and a very different economy, but seem to be phenomenal and very long term in its political thinking, being an alternative way. We'll see where it ends up. I hope it's going to be good. Competition is always good. And you can think what happens. in companies and in industry is just one level down from the national thing. There's a lot happening right now. And this is this is where I'm interested in. We're my interest in it. And that is what is the impact of AI on leadership? And it's still an open answer to that, but there's a lot of impact. And what's happening on leadership in organizations, on higher education.

It's just on civic society now. There's just so much here. But my message is very much the same to everybody. Hold on to you in human magic. And there are ways of doing it. Yeah. Yep. It's our magic.

So tell us about some of the offerings you have on your website, Johan. What do you do there? I notice there's a choir about speaking tab there. Tell us about some of the work that you can do and helping leaders and other people learn. Yeah. So I'm doing, I've just been extremely busy because of the book now for doing all kinds of.

of both speaking engagement from medium-sized to large audiences. I'm actually in Washington, D.C. in a couple of weeks, but before that it's Luxembourg, it's Berlin, it's Sevilla, it's hungry, it's actually hungry tomorrow, and a lot of things. So I do keynote speaks about this, about holding onto human magic. I'm also doing selective work with boards and leadership teams

on helping them. For example, I'm currently involved in coach, coaching a conglomerate of about 100 companies, smaller SMEs, but as a conglomerate to see how could their top 30 people be better at, not just technical stuff, I'm not the best person to teach people that, but like to think it through, to do the debrief when they're doing, when they're developing agents and doing that, comparing it to their leadership style.

How does this impact me, my team, and how should I, roll this out so that I don't look stupid in the whole company, but rather actually a role model of everything. So those are some of the things I'm doing. Writing zillions of small articles, such as the metric your board should be asking for. Ah, that's definitely something that needs advice. So people can reach out to you on your website. They can get to know you better. They can get to know what's going on and all that good stuff and off you go. Anything more we want to promote Johan before we go?

anything we need to plug? Plug is perhaps not the right way, but we mentioned Lego Circe play before, and it's kind of interesting that last week I published with my co-inventor, Bart Victor, is a former professor at Vanderbilt. Another article, we wrote one 10 years ago called How It All Began, and now we wrote one,

which is called How Will Continue. So many, many years ago, we developed this tool, which is about using materials and colors, size, shapes and so forth in 3D actually working with this. And it's super difficult to facilitate. But it's amazing. It really brings up the human magic in people.

Now we are going to use it and we use it and we do some research on this to use it to specify what AI agents should do. So it's pretty cool actually. So we have this. I just sent out a LinkedIn post about it this morning and it's aillions of people are interested in this now. Anyway, so I do a lot of cool stuff. I'm a little bit of a, what should we call it, an old father figure of Lego series play.

I'm involved in conferences and doing research and shit. But the stuff works. And it's super, if you're interested in all that, send me a ping on Human Magic, DoFaun as well. I can point you in directions where you should go. Human magic. Remember what the important stuff was for everything, because that's important. Give people a final pitch out to know. You got to, I think you, let's give a plug.

You got about 10 or 12 books, I think it is. Let's give a plug to that as well. Ah, it's my academic career. As a young academic, I wrote a lot of stuff, primarily research-based for, for practitioners, but a little bit more of the academic flavor. So they're all listed also on the, on the Human Magic website. But this is the important book. This is, this is, I put my soul into this book.

And it's a super practical, damn good book. Oh, fun is fun. Thank you very much for coming the show. We really appreciate, Johan. Thank you for having me, Chris. I listen to your intro to this podcast, and it's mind-blowing. I hope we haven't, I don't know how you said it, bled somebody's brain or this point. We've hopefully expanded it to the point, and sometimes when you expand tissue, there's a little blood, so you got to hammering the anvil. All right, well, thank you very much, Johan. Folks, pick up his book, wherever a fine book. are sold. It's called Human Magic by Johann Ruse. Amazon. Amazon,

Barnes, the nobles, whatever. You'll find it. Wherever fine books are sold, there'll be a link on the Chriswash show. Thanks for us for us fordress fordress Christchristchristchus. LinkedIn.com, Fortresschuschristch, YouTube.com, Fortchusch, Christvoss, and all those crazy places in the internet. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you guys next time.

You've been listening to the most amazing intelligent podcast ever made to improve your brain and your life. Warning. Consuming too much of the Chris Walsh Show podcast can lead to people thinking you're smarter, younger, and irresistible sexy. Consume in regularly moderated amounts. Consult the doctor for any resulting brain bleed.