The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – “I Am a Man”: Chief Standing Bear’s Journey for Justice by Joe Starita

Episode Date: July 4, 2025

"I Am a Man": Chief Standing Bear's Journey for Justice by Joe Starita https://www.amazon.com/Am-Man-Standing-Journey-Justice/dp/0312533047 In 1877, Chief Standing Bear’s Ponca Indian tribe was forcibly removed from their Nebraska homeland and marched to what was then known as Indian Territory (now Oklahoma), in what became the tribe’s own Trail of Tears. “I Am a Man” chronicles what happened when Standing Bear set off on a six-hundred-mile walk to return the body of his only son to their traditional burial ground. Along the way, it examines the complex relationship between the United States government and the small, peaceful tribe and the legal consequences of land swaps and broken treaties, while never losing sight of the heartbreaking journey the Ponca endured. It is a story of survival---of a people left for dead who arose from the ashes of injustice, disease, neglect, starvation, humiliation, and termination. On another level, it is a story of life and death, despair and fortitude, freedom and patriotism. A story of Christian kindness and bureaucratic evil. And it is a story of hope---of a people still among us today, painstakingly preserving a cultural identity that had sustained them for centuries before their encounter with Lewis and Clark in the fall of 1804. Before it ends, Standing Bear’s long journey home also explores fundamental issues of citizenship, constitutional protection, cultural identity, and the nature of democracy---issues that continue to resonate loudly in twenty-first-century America. It is a story that questions whether native sovereignty, tribal-based societies, and cultural survival are compatible with American democracy. Standing Bear successfully used habeas corpus, the only liberty included in the original text of the Constitution, to gain access to a federal court and ultimately his freedom. This account aptly illuminates how the nation’s delicate system of checks and balances worked almost exactly as the Founding Fathers envisioned, a system arguably out of whack and under siege today. Joe Starita’s well-researched and insightful account reads like historical fiction as his careful characterizations and vivid descriptions bring this piece of American history brilliantly to life.About the author Joe Starita holds an endowed professorship at the University of Nebraska College of Journalism and Mass Communications. Previously, he spent 14 years at The Miami Herald – four years as the newspaper’s New York Bureau Chief and four years on its Investigations Team, where he specialized in investigating the questionable practices of doctors, lawyers and judges. One of his stories was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize in local reporting. Interested since his youth in Native American history and culture, he returned to his native Nebraska in 1992 and began work on a three-year writing project examining five generations of a Lakota-Northern Cheyenne family. The Dull Knifes of Pine Ridge – A Lakota Odyssey, published in 1995 by G.P. Putnam Sons (New York), won the Mountain and Plains Booksellers Award, was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize in history, has been translated into six languages and is the subject of an upcoming documentary. Starita’s most recent book – “I Am A Man” – Chief Standing Bear’s Journey for Justice – was published in January 2009 by St. Martin’s Press (New York) and has gone into a seventh printing.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries and motivators. Get ready, get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Cause you're about to go on a monster education rollercoaster with your brain.

Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi folks, it's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. Ladies and gentlemen, that seems to make sufficient welcome to the show. Over 16 years and 24 episodes of the Chris Voss show bringing you the most smartest minds, the brightest stars, the people who share with you their journeys, their lessons of life, their stories of life, because that is the fabric of life, our stories. And so refer the show to your family, friends and relatives. Go to Goodreads.com, Forchess Cris Foss, LinkedIn.com, Forchess Cris Foss, Cris Foss 1 on the TikTokity, and

all those crazy places on the internet. Opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the hosts or the Cris Foss show. Some guests of the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it is not an endorsement or review of any kind. Today's featured author comes to us from bookstolifemarketing.co.uk. With expert publishing to strategic marketing, they help authors reach their audience and maximize their book success. Two amazing young men on the show where we talk to them about his insights. His latest book is out called, I Am a Man, Chief Standing Bears Journey for Justice. We're gonna get into the details of that, what goes inside of

it, and all that good stuff. We'll be talking with him today. Joe was an investigative reporter in New York and Miami for 15 years before joining the UN College of Journalism where he taught depth reporting for 20 years. A two-time Pulitzer Prize nominee, the Lincoln native has won more than 25 national and regional awards for his reporting. He's also the author of three acclaimed books on Native Americans, The Dull Knives of Pine Ridge and Lakota Odyssey, I am a man chief standing bears journey for justice and a warrior of the people. And, uh, or let's see, did I cross that over and a warrior of the people, how Susan Laflesh, I'm not sure I'm pronouncing that right, overcame racial and

gender equality to become America's first Indian doctor. Welcome to show Joe. How are you? I'm doing good. My pleasure to be with you. Thank you very much for the invitation, Chris. Thank you. And it's a pleasure to have you as well. Give us any dot coms or on the internet. Where do you want people to find out more about you or order up your book? Well, the easiest thing is just to simply Google my name, Joe Starita. Just Google my name Joe Starita and up will pop hundreds and hundreds of comments from readers and what they thought of the three books that you just mentioned.

There will be dozens and dozens of reviews from famous authors who weighed in on what I have written. And there are several dozen video interviews that I have given over the years, speeches I've given, talks I've given. So all you have to do is simply Google Joe Sturita and all of this, everything you could ever want to know about the books, the comments from hundreds of readers and dozens of reviewers, famous authors, what they thought about it,

what they had to say, and you can see some of the interviews that I've given all over the country. I've spoken in Miami, Philadelphia, New York, Washington, D.C., Boston, Denver, L.A., San Francisco. So it's a story that has a national appeal because it's at the very soul and the very heart of our country, the first people who lived on this land. And they had been here for 10,000 years

before Christopher Columbus arrived or the Puritans arrived. So these are the people who really form the heart and the soul of what we now call the United States of America. And so you tell the story of Chief Standing Bear, is it a full documentary of his life or a thing based on his life or is it on a certain aspect of his life or period. It's the story of his life, but it has high points that are emphasized. If you took, it's a magnificent story. It's a powerful story. If you took this narrative arc of the story of standing bear and ran it through

an EKG, you would see nothing but peaks and valleys, highs and lows for the entire beginning, middle and end. It's a story that just goes up and then it comes down. It goes up and then it comes down. But I think people are really much better off knowing about what kind of country we are and what kind of past we have if they know the story of this man, a Native American who walked into a federal courtroom on the corner of 15th and Dodge in Omaha, Nebraska, three years after the Little Bighorn Massacre and demanded that the federal government free his people

and let them return to their sacred homeland along the Niobrara River that forms the border of Nebraska and South Dakota so he could bury his son, so he could bury his son who had died in the hated Indian territory that became Oklahoma of malaria. And this was a middle-aged man who was trying to fulfill the deathbed promise that his only son had offered and Standing Bear promised his son Bear Shield that upon his death, he

would take his remains and he walked with 29 others. They left on January 2nd, 1878. They began walking from North Central Oklahoma, 500 miles in the dead of winter to the Nebraska-South Dakota border. The morning they left, it was 19 below zero. They had virtually no winter clothing, no food, and no money, and yet they made this journey so this father could keep the promise he had made to his 16-year-old son before his eyes closed in death, Christmas week of 1878.

And what happens during this long journey where they are finally captured two days short of their sacred burial grounds and are brought back to a stockade in Omaha, Nebraska, that's where the story really takes off. What happened and how this changed American history for both natives and non-natives? Pete Slauson Wow. A 600 mile walk to return the body of his only son

and to traditional burial grounds and examines the complex relationship. I didn't know it was that extraordinary where it changed the history of the United States in a relationship. Jim Collins Yeah, it made a difference. I mean, who does that? Who walks 600 miles? The morning they left, it was 19 below zero. They had children with them. And during the journey north in the dead of winter, they had to tunnel into haystacks in the open field and put the children inside and put the women inside

so they wouldn't freeze to death. They survived on kernels of corn. Sometimes farmers would give them handouts, but one day at a time, one week at a time, one month at a time. And then they got two days short of their sacred burial grounds, and the army caught up with them

and marched them back to Fort Omaha. And again, that's where the story really takes off because it makes a new chapter in American history that had never existed before then. Wow. Now what prompted you to, or inspired you to write the book? Well, I have a native friend who told me this story. We started off at a Mexican restaurant, what was going to be a 45-minute lunch. And somehow, the word Standing Bear popped into the conversation, a name I had never heard. And I have studied Native history for 50 years.

I was intrigued. I asked her to tell me the story of Standing Bear. The 45-minute lunch became a three-hour lunch and when I walked out I knew I was going to rearrange the furniture in my life and Do everything I could to tell this story as truthfully and as accurately as possible and that's exactly what I did I put my life on hold, everything, but telling the story of Chief Standing Bear.

I opened my veins and I bled for this. I was so worried about chapter six, the highlight of the story where this middle-aged American Indian walks into a federal courthouse and sues the government of the United States for his freedom. I was so nervous and worried about screwing up this chapter that I moved to Italy for a month just to write this chapter.

Oh, really? Wow. Yeah. I found a hotel room on the Mediterranean. I holed up in a hotel room to write chapter six, The Color of Blood, which again, if you put this through an EKG, the story would rise to its Mount Everest top in chapter six, where Standing Bear is sued for the first time in the history of the United States, the American government, and won. And he won.

He won. He won. He came out of the court victorious. And this had never happened before in the history of the United States. And so it's a remarkable trial. It involves remarkable characters. It involves remarkable events. And I wanted complete peace and quiet, so I made sure that the readers understood the

power of this courtroom scene in which Standing Bear, for the first time in the history of the United States, is allowed to enter a federal courtroom. And that was the question that had been hanging over America for a long time. Could an American Indian have the legal right to enter a American courtroom? Could an American Indian actually sue a general in the United

States Army? And in this case, not just any general, but Brigadier General George Crook, a West Point graduate, a Civil War hero, commander of all American troops west of the Missouri River, and Standing Bear was able through the brilliance of his lawyers, through a crusading reporter, and the Jewish streets of Omaha three years after the Custer battle and they collected money to help for Standing Bears defense. I mean, where was that? Really? Wow.

Where? That's awesome. Those people on the streets of Omaha three years after the Little Bighorn were collecting funds for Standing Fairs, the defense fund. That just wasn't happening in too many places in America at that time. Pete Now, you mentioned a news reporter or something was helping out too as well? John Yeah, yeah. There was a whole sequence of events that the actual hero of this story is Brigadier General George Crook, who was in charge of,

like I said, all military troops west of the Mississippi River. He was the man. And there was something about this story about an American, middle-aged American Indian man who would walk 500 miles with no food, winter clothing, or supplies just to keep the promise he had made to his only son. There was something in that relationship between a father and a son that touched George Crook. So he was under orders from his superior to arrest Standing Bear and bring them to the stockade at Fort Omaha. And he cabled his superior in Chicago, Lieutenant General Philip Sheridan. Hey, I've got 26 Ponca prisoners who escaped their reservation in Oklahoma and they're trying to make their way back to the ancestral homeland along the Nebraska-South Dakota border, what should I do? The orders

from Sheridan were turn their faces south and march them right back where they came. This is from a man who had famously said a few years earlier, the only good Indian is a dead Indian. Oh, wow. And General Crook knew that the orders he had just been given by his superiors were a death sentence. If he turned, the Ponca were half starving to death. When he saw the women walking across the parade ground,

he saw that their elbows, the skin on their elbows were hanging black clumps of skin like charred bacon because they had been so severely frostbitten. They could hardly walk. They were emaciated. And he knew that if he turned them around and made them walk back to Oklahoma, that was a death sentence. So he had to, I can imagine him going back and forth in the general quarters that night after getting the orders from his superior and Having this intense battle between his military conscience and his civilian conscience if he followed his military Conscience was all soldiers needed to do he would send these 26 people to death If he followed his civilian conscience, he might be able to save them.

So he ultimately decided after midnight to walk to the stable, saddle his horse, ride three miles under the cover of darkness, arrived at a house, saw there was a lantern on, knocked on the door. The editor of the Omaha Daily Herald newspaper answered, his name was Thomas Henry Tibbles. He was writing an opinion piece, an editorial for the next day's paper, and in walked the general who said, Thomas, I think I've got a story you might be interested in. And he laid out the story of a grieving father who had walked 500 miles in the dead of winter to fulfill a deathbed promise to his only son and Thomas Tibbles went bat crazy and said, yeah, I'm interested in that story.

And they arranged for an interview the next day. He started writing the story. It got in the Omaha paper and soon it had jumped across the Mississippi and it got into Chicago, it got into Boston, it got into New York, and pretty soon the country knew about a single incident in Omaha, Nebraska, where for the first time in the history of the United States, an American Indian chief was suing the United States and its brigadier general for his freedom, something that had never happened before. 22 years earlier, a black man by the name of Dred Scott walked into a St. Louis federal courtroom demanding his freedom. And it went to all the way to the Supreme Court, which ultimately decided in a 7-2 vote in the words of the Chief Justice, Roger Taney,

who said, a Negro has no rights, a white man is bound to respect. He denied Dred Scott's petition for his freedom and returned him out the door as a slave. So 22 years later, we now have an American Indian sheep asking for the same thing. I need my freedom. And what's remarkable about this story is that it was the Brigadier General George Crook who leaked the story to the media. And then he suggested to Standing Bear's lawyers

that they file in legalese, and I don't wanna get too far into the weeds of legalese, but he, the brigadier general who was supposed to send these people back to Oklahoma, he suggested to Standing Bear's lawyers that they file for a writ of habeas corpus, which means bring me the body in Latin. And if the judge granted the writ of habeas corpus, then the government of the United States, the military, the brigadier general would have to prove in an American courtroom why the government had a legal right to put Standing Bear in jail and not allow him his freedom.

And this is why I went to Italy to write that chapter. Pete That's extraordinary, man. What a story. And it changed the history of the US. I mean, certainly, you know, we've been fighting for rights all this time and different issues that go on with that. One of the other questions I had for you was, can you tease out any key moments in the trial that maybe you can tease out for us? We don't want to probably tell, well, I mean, I imagine it's history so people know how it ends or something. The trial, the trial was on the fifth floor of the federal courthouse at 15th and Dodge streets and it was packed because Thomas Henry Tibbles, the journalists had been writing

this story day after day. We have an American Indian chief who actually has been granted access to a federal courtroom. That's never happened in the history of the United States. What's going to happen at this trial? He had the most prominent lawyer in the state of Nebraska as his attorney, a man who, of course, his name would be Andrew Jackson Poppleton. He was the first lawyer admitted to the Nebraska bar. He was a former mayor of Omaha, and he currently was the chief counsel for the Union Pacific Railroad. But in May of 1879, he was standing bears attorney.

And so Thomas Tibbles and all of his stories had filled the courtroom. It began on May 1st, 1879. The courtroom was packed. Some of the Jewish people who had been out on the corner with tin cups raising defense fund money, they were packed into the courthouse and the judge allowed everybody to have their say. It went two full days and right before it was to end, standing bearer who was dressed in his full chief regalia with a single eagle feather in his hair and a bear claw necklace around his neck, he rose up and asked to speak to the courtroom before everybody left.

So everybody sat back down and this judge, Elmer Dundee, was the only federal judge in Nebraska. He was a grizzled grizzly bear hunting judge and an Indian hater who had never ruled in favor of any native suit in his 13 years on the bench. But there was something about the love between a father and a son that touched him because he had a son who interestingly enough

went on to develop Coney Island in New York. And there was something in Judge Elmer Dundee that understood the love between a father and son. So even though he had just said the court was over and now he would go ruminate on the results, he allowed Chief Standing Bear to get up, and Standing Bear rose from his seat in his full buckskin regalia with the bear claw necklace

and eagle feather and he walked straight up to the judge and he looked at him and he raised his hand and he said in this moment of dead silence in this federal courtroom, that hand is not the same color as yours, but if I pierce it, I shall feel pain. If you pierce your hand, you also will feel pain. The blood that will flow from my hand will be the same color as yours. I am a man, the same God made us both. Wow. And there was silence. And then after some seconds, people who covered the trial said that you could hear women beginning to weep softly in the back. And then after a while, Judge Dundee

allowed Standing Bear to say a few more things and then the trial ended. And he went back and spent 10 days, spent 10 days, which was an extraordinary amount of time before making his decision. And the argument all along, the government's lawyer had said the one against opposing standing bearer representing general crook this lawyer had tried to make the case that only a citizen only a citizen can file for a writ of habeas corpus an indian couldn't file for a writ of habeas corpus because he wasn't a citizen. So Judge, you erred by allowing this Indian chief to force the government to prove it had the legal right to jail this man, that it had the legal right to arrest him.

And you completely blew it because only a citizen. The judge stopped him and read the law which said any person can file. The only question in this courtroom right now is whether or not this man pointing to Chief Standing Bear is a person, whether or not this man is a human being. That is the only question before us. And I have consulted Webster's dictionary on human being and this Native American chief checks all the boxes. Yes, he is a human being.

So he has the legal right, according to our own laws, to sue the Brigadier General of the United States for his freedom, even though the Brigadier General secretly was on his side, but he had to pose and fake that he wasn't for fear of being court-martialed, which would be very humiliating to a West Point graduate and a Civil War hero. Yeah. Did he experience any repercussions? I'm sorry? Did, did the general, uh, the, the one who, uh, helped the gentleman, did he, did he experience any repercussions?

No, he didn't. He didn't. And what was interesting is that the lawyers of course knew that the general was on standing bear side because had ridden under cover of darkness on a horse to leak the story to the Omaha reporter. And he was the one against his own government because he loved Standing Bear's story and he loved the fact that he was just trying to bury his son. And the lawyers and the journalist made a pact that they would never reveal this until after General Crook's death.

They would keep his role in helping create new law, a secret, until after General Crook died. And new law was created on May 12, 1879, Judge Elmer Gundy issued his ruling, and he declared for the first time in the 103-year history of our country that from that day forward, a Native American will be considered as a person within the meaning of the law entitled to some of the same constitutional

privileges of the more fortunate white folks. And that was the pinnacle and climax of the case. Standing Bear won. He not only won for himself, but he won for all native people the right to be considered legally a person with access to the federal courtroom, which had never been granted in the 103 years that we had been around. So it's an extraordinary moment in time, considering, like I said, this was only three years after Crazy Horse and his band of Lakota and Northern Cheyenne warriors had taken out Lieutenant Colonel George Custer and remnants

of his entire Seventh Cavalry and had killed him to the last man. To think that three years later you would have a ruling that would guarantee the freedom of standing bear to continue on to his journey and bury his son in their sacred homeland. And it's really important for your viewers to understand how sacred the land was to Native Americans. When Crazy Horse once was asked, where are your lands? His answer was my lands are where my father's life buried. Oh, wow. The place where they live, the place where they buried their dead to Native people then

and now is sacred in a way that is hard to even explain. And that was the motivation all along for Standing Bear to take on this heroic 500 mile journey in the dead of winter with no winter clothes, food or money. And he eventually made it and buried his son in their traditional burial grounds. And one of the things that I'm kind of excited about that I think would mention too is that this story, this magnificent story is also going to be brought to the big screen as a major Hollywood historic epic.

Oh, wow. There is a film underway in production with co-directors, one of whom is named Andrew Troy, who is an Apache native who just won five best film and best director awards at the most recent Cannes Film Festival. And his co-partner in producing the story of Standing Bear for the Big Screen is the legendary Irish filmmaker Jim Sheridan, whose films have received 16 Academy Award nominations. Andrew has actually sought international connections for this film and has forged a very strong relationship with Britain's Peter O'Toole family. Peter O'Toole as in Lawrence of Arabia. And so there is this cross breeding across the Atlantic to help fundraise and develop

the movie version of I Am A Man. And the casting director they've hired is the same woman who was the casting director for Dances with Wolves and for a recent film that came out last year, Killers of the Flower Moon. Pete Oh, wow. Chris So, that's all happening right now. The film is, they've got the screenplay done, they're making costumes that are, that natives would have wore back in that time and it's rolling right along and we're pretty happy about that.

Pete I think I saw in the PR stuff, there's like a film, I'm not sure what they call it, but basically the ad for the film. It looks like a pre-ad for the film. David Yeah, yes. Pete So, that should be really interesting. And so, they've been using your book as the consult for that? David Yes, yes. I sold them the film rights to the book and they're hard at work. Yeah, the screenplay is done.

And these are two extremely talented directors and they co-wrote the screenplay. Like I said, Jim Sheridan, My Left Foot was one of his films that won Academy Award and kind of launched Daniel Day Lewis's career. And they are both kind of obsessed with this story. And I mean, it, you know, I would say that there's just certain things about braided, like braided into the narrative arc of this story of Standing Bear are all the themes and all the values that we ourselves hold dear as people. And in the end, Standing Bear was able to turn those questions around and kind of hold up a mirror to the United States of America and turn those questions back on a country that had never really confronted the single question that hung over Judge Dundee's courtroom, which

was who are these people and what do we do with them? Yeah. And are they people? Judge Dundee answered that question. And what I also love about this story is it is still relevant today. Yeah, it's still relevant today. We have the government arresting people and putting them in jail. And the same issues are unfolding all over again. Yeah, Mahmoud Khalil, a Syrian born, pro-Palestinian Columbia student at Columbia University

was arrested by an ICE raid and taken to a prison in Louisiana. That wasn't a hundred years ago, that was a couple of months ago. And it raises the same question. Does Mahmoud Khalil have the legal right to challenge the government for his legal rights, for taking him from his family from Columbia University and putting him in a Louisiana prison. That is not that far removed from what happened in 1879 with a pocket chief by the name of Standing Bear. I am kind of fascinated by the historical thread that connects an

American Indian chief whose people had been on the land for 10,000 years with a Syrian-born born Columbia college student who was arrested and jailed for his pro-Palestinian beliefs. There's a thread connecting those two. Pete Oh, definitely. I mean, you even see the thread from SCOTUS where SCOTUS, you know, they gave Oklahoma back to the Indians for the most part. Pete Yeah, yeah. Pete But these are the things people fought for, for the eons of time of human history, is human rights and inalienable rights. And you're right, we still have the same questions today. So, as we round out the show, anything more you're working on in the future,

give people a final pitch on the show to pick up your book and all that good stuff. Pete Is there anything else that I'm working on? Pete Slauson Anything new you want to preview that you maybe are working on any new books or anything like that? Jim Collins Yeah, I'm, you know, right now, I'm actually involved in, I've got a book that I'm working on, but I put it on pause because I am trying to, right now I'm trying to fundraise to finish building a Ukrainian orphanage. Oh, really?

This is an orphanage in a village 20 miles west of Kiev. And it will when finished, it will house 38 Ukrainian children, all of whom have lost both their mother and father from Russian bombings in the war. So there are 38 children that are going to be housed in this orphanage that is about 90% built and it will double as a school and these are six, seven, eight, nine-year-old boys and girls who have no fathers and mothers. And so I've just kind of put everything on hold and I'm fundraising to try and get the last $175,000 needed to finish off the plumbing in the basement and the insulation for the cold winters.

And I've just kind of put everything else on hold. But one thing I wanted to say that just to kind of close out and bring the story of Standing Bear full circle that goes beyond just the story of Standing Bear. And to me, I would really like to say that a good book or a good film or a good play or a good opera or any piece of good art should always seek to do one thing. It should inspire us, us. It should inspire us to look deeper into ourselves. our beliefs and to take stock of our values and to pose the all important questions, who am I? And what is it that I really believe in? with our family and friends and ultimately enable us to view the world around us with more sensitive and compassionate eyes. And to me, that is what the story of Standing Bear has allowed us to do. His story is that gift to us, and we should do everything we can to spread the word. Pete Slauson Yeah. Most definitely. And support the rights, you know, that's the thing. If you don't fight for your rights, you'll lose them. That's the old thing Ben Franklin said to a lady when they came out of chambers where they were writing the Constitution. So, what do we have, Mr. Franklin? And he said, we, we have a Republic, you have

a democracy for as long as you can keep it. And that's important. Everyone is a steward of their own democracy. So thank you very much for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. And yeah, what an interesting story that's life changing. I'm glad you got it optioned and sold on Hollywood because we have a lot of authors that do the optioning and you know, they're always hoping it turns into a movie and many times it doesn't. So congratulations on that as well. Thank you very much, Joe, for coming on the show. Chris, I really appreciate the opportunity. Thank you so much for the invitation and I am very thankful and very humbled by it.

Thank you. And thanks, Ron, for tuning in. Order up the book where refined books are I am a man chief standing bears journey for justice out with by Joe Starita and watch for the film as it comes up. I saw that. Like I said, the Southern Hollywood cover looks cool. Go to good reads.com forces, Chris Voss, linkedin.com forces, Chris Voss, Chris Voss one on the tick tock and he had all those crazy places in it. We get to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time.

Man, great. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one.