The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Inspire: The Universal Path for Leading Yourself and Others by Adam Galinsky

Episode Date: January 20, 2025

Inspire: The Universal Path for Leading Yourself and Others by Adam Galinsky Amazon.com Two kinds of leaders populate the world: those who inspire and those who infuriate. Which will you be? Whether you’re a leader, a member of a team, a spouse, or a parent, this engaging and rigorous exploration unpacks the science of inspiration. Through compelling stories, fascinating research, and practical tips for addressing the common dilemmas we face daily, Inspire reveals how all of us, regardless of status or circumstance, can be more inspiring more often. Social psychologist and leadership expert Adam Galinsky has spent three decades building a method for determining when we are inspiring versus infuriating, and where various leaders—presidents, CEOs, coaches, teachers, parents, and a wealth of others—currently land on that spectrum. Galinsky shows how inspiring leaders can fill us with a wellspring of hope and possibility as they guide us to become better versions of ourselves. In contrast, infuriating leaders disappoint and annoy, fueling seething cauldrons of rage. But both types of leaders are deeply connected—together, they represent a universal continuum that is rooted in the very architecture of the human brain. This means that inspiring leaders aren’t born—instead, we can inspire or infuriate in any given moment through our behavior, words, or presence. In this captivating book, Galinsky identifies the three universal archetypes of truly great leaders and explains how each of us can develop these characteristics within ourselves to become more inspiring: Visionaries offer a big-picture, optimistic, and engaging vision of the future; Exemplars are courageous and calm protectors who authentically express their passion while remaining consistent in word and deed; Mentors encourage, empower, and elevate others while challenging them to reach their potential. Inspire is an essential guide to becoming not only a better leader but also an effective decision-maker, a dynamic problem-solver, a value-creating negotiator, and an inclusive innovator. About the author Adam Galinsky is one of the world’s foremost scholars in the fields of management and social psychology. He was recently selected as one of the World’s 50 Best B-School Professors. He is currently the Vikram S. Pandit Professor of Business and Chair of the Management Division at the Columbia Business School at Columbia University. He has published more than 190 scientific papers about a diverse range of topics: leadership, power, negotiations, decision-making, diversity, and ethics. Frequently cited in the media, his research and insights have appeared in The Economist, The New York Times, The New Yorker, National Public Radio, and Wall Street Journal, among others. In 2006 he was the sole expert witness in a defamation trial, in which the plaintiff that he represented was awarded $37 million in damages. He is the Associate Producer on two award-winning documentaries, Horns and Halos (2003) and Battle for Brooklyn (2011), both of which were short-listed (final 15) for Best Documentary at the Academy Awards.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hey, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com.

Thechrisvossshow.com. Who knew that was going to come up? After 16 years and over 2,100 episodes, The Chris Voss Show, the original Chris voss show.com who knew that was going to come up after 16 years and over 2100 episodes chris voss show the original chris voss has been bringing you the greatest and the latest and all that kind of crazy stuff the smartest people on the planet the ceos the billionaires the white house presidential advisors pulitzer prize winners all of the brilliant people who bring you their journeys their education and share with you and their knowledge and make you smarter and give what we call the chris Foss Show glow to you.

Kind of comes in the coffee. We've been thinking about making a coffee, the Chris Foss Show glow, but we can't get the uranium to, they won't let us put the uranium that makes it glow in the thing. You know, they kind of put it on the, they painted it on the watches back in the day. You may have heard about that. Anyway, guys, go to goodreads.com, 4chesschrisfoss, linkedin.com FortressCrispFoss, ChrisFoss1, the TikTok, and all those crazy places on the internet. Today, we have an amazing young man on the show with us today. We're talking about his latest book that comes out January 21st, 2025.

It's called Inspire, The Universal Path for Leading Yourself and Others. We love leadership on the show, of course. Adam Galinsky joins us on the show. We'll be talking to him about his insights in his book and all the things that will make all of our lives better at least that's what he promised me on the show in the green room no i'm just kidding i like to throw our guests under the bus sometimes and give them a high demand adam is a professor at columbia business school he co-authored the best- book, Friend and Foe, which explains my first nine marriages. And he has a forthcoming book called Inspire, the universal path for leading yourself and

others that will be published on January 21st, 2025. His TED Talk, How to Speak Up for Yourself, which has over 7.6 million views. Gotta love it. He's served as damages expert in defamation trials i should have had him on divorces i guess and he's generated more than one billion dollars in verdicts and settlements welcome to the show how are you sir thank you so much for having me i'm so excited to be here yeah the running callback on the show is i changed the number of divorces i've had i've never been married so that's what that's about. So give us your dot coms, Adam. How can people find you on the interwebs? Adam Glinsky dot com.

So give us a 30,000 overview. What's inside your new book? The new book is about the scientific basis of what it means to inspire other people. I've asked thousands of people across the globe to tell me about someone in their orbit, in their life that inspired them. Tell me what that feeling of inspiration is about, and what was it about that person that gave them that wellspring of hope and possibility. And I've asked those same thousands of people to tell me about a different type of leader that also changed them inside. But this time, instead of creating that oasis inside them, it created a seething cauldron of rage and sense of vengeance. And I call those

the infuriating leaders. And so asking thousands of people across the globe about those experiences have led me to three sort of fundamental insights. The first insight is that the inspiring leader and the infuriating leader are mirror images of each other. They exist on what I call a universal enduring continuum that is made up of these three universal factors. So, an inspiring leader sees the big picture. They're visionary, right? But an infuriating leader is small-minded. Inspiring leader is calm and courageous. They're an exemplar of desired behavior. A infuriating leader is cowardly or anxious. You know, inspiring leader elevates others, right? And Fiorite leader pushes people

down. And so, that's the first insight is that there's this universal continuum made up of these three factors. The second insight is that these are the three universal factors because each one satisfies a fundamental human need. To be visionary satisfies the fundamental human need for a sense of meaning and understanding. Like when we have kids, for example. Being an exemplar satisfies the fundamental need for that sense of protection in the world. And being a great mentor fulfills that fundamental human need for a sense of belonging and sense of status. And then the third insight, and this is probably the single most important one, is we are not

born as inspiring leaders. We are not born as infertile leaders. Because there is a universal set of attributes that make up the inspiring tapestry, those can be learned, they can be developed, they can be nurtured, and they can grow over time. Pete I would agree with you definitely on the last one because I grew up an introvert and now I'm just a big mouth, visionary, won't ever shut up about the mission, all that sort of stuff that employees hate. And people are like, were you born this way? Or did someone hurt you? And which is both are true. But no, I used to be a huge introvert people watcher when I was growing

up. I was very quiet. I was trying to learn through other people. I was watching people's psychosis, kind of one of those fun things that happens when you grow up in a religious cult. And I learned a lot. And then once I became a boss, I realized that, you know, I had to communicate vision. I had to be communicative and, and, you know, I had to get up on the little soapbox and do my little pitch and, you know, pound the table and sell the vision to, you know, your employees, your board, your investors, you know, your vendors. And, you know, then I just became a big mouth that never shuts up. And now I have a podcast. But yeah, leadership is learned. 100%. And I think, you know, one of the things is that one of the questions is how do we learn

to do it? Right. And I think that's one's becomes one of the most important things. And, you know, I've been teaching negotiations, you know, I know you're a negotiations expert for over 20 years. You're thinking of the other FBI guy. Yeah. The original Chris Voss. He's the copycat. Oh, there's a different Chris Voss. Sorry. He hijacked our brand. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, the Christopher Voss. But anyway, you know, I've been teaching negotiations for 20 years and negotiations is really about practice. It's how we practice. We get better by practicing. And I think that becomes one of the, one of the most important on that, too, is it's a journey. I mean, I started my first company at 18 and technically became a leader. There was a leader before in high school for just our fun events and our group. So I've been a leader all my life, and I'm still perfecting it and trying to get better.

I mean, I'm not even close to perfection, though. I don't want to imply that. I think I still have a lot of work to do, but it's a journey. I mean, I still read leadership books. I write leadership books, Beacon's Leadership. I'm constantly going, how can I grow better as a leader? How can I develop more as a leader? So, it's a never-ending journey. That's one of the fundamental themes of the book, I think, really, is that it is a journey. And the cover of the book shows sort of a path and the idea of it's a never-ending path that we can become more inspiring every day. But, and this is, I think, really critical, is that we're never 100% inspiring, right? We fall off the inspiring end of the continuum, and we're periodically infuriating. And so the key, and I think you said it best, is that how do we get, how do we recover from those infuriating

moments to become a little bit more inspiring the next day? Yeah. I mean, we're not always, we're not always perfect. We're just not always perfect. I mean, we fail, we're human. I mean, a good example is I just, you know, mistook you for the other Chris Voss, right? And, you know, how do we, how do we recover from that? How do we move forward, right? And still be present, still engage in a conversation in a really thoughtful way. Yeah, because normally we just kick people off the show if they miss it. That's right.

No, I'm just teasing. We don't ever do that. It's never happened, folks. But no, leadership is a constant. I find, you know, we talk about it ad nauseum on the show. My audience is we're gonna talk about leadership again. But I think most of the audience loves leadership and talking about business things. And you know, leaders are everyone like, you know, a father, a mother, a parent is a leader, grandparent, you know, leaders are everywhere. And sometimes they're pop up leaders, you know, sometimes there's a crisis on a bus or an emergency situation. And suddenly someone who maybe not have thought of themselves as a leader, you know, there they are, they're presented with that moment. You know, a great example of this is the famous airline pilot Sully, right? And Sully, he's the one who landed the plane on the Hudson River after bird strikes at LaGuardia took out both of his engines.

And in other words, people talked about sully moments, right? These moments where he showed this level of wisdom or compassion or care over the course of his career that led up to this heroic moment. So, for one of the stories someone told was something simple like when the plane landed, there was no one there to get the wheelchair. There's supposed to be someone to help someone off the plane. So, he went and got the wheelchair because that was what was needed at that moment. And, you know, people would talk about how his practices every day of being that inspiring person, making those little gestures, those little efforts, then led up to that moment when a crisis happened. His calm courage was needed, and he was able to do and make this incredible split-level decisions

and use his expertise to land the plane on the Hudson. I mean, it's, you know, and you never know when you're going to need that muscle. Sometimes in the, just like he did, you know, you develop that muscle, and then all of a sudden, you know, the time comes where you've got to exercise it. And, you know, there's a lot that goes into leadership, you know, and all that good stuff. Talk to us a little bit about how you were raised, what influenced you, what grew you into the fields that you've been interested in, and finally on writing books about leadership and these topics.

Yeah, you know, I'm a professor and I'm the son of two professors. So both my parents were professors at University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. So I'm a huge Tar Heel fan. And they're not doing as good this year in basketball as I'd hoped so far. Raiders fan. I'm not going to cry for you. Oh, especially after last Friday game. That was...

Especially after the last 30 years. Yeah. I mean, that's a good example. Poor rookie hiking the ball at the wrong moment, you know, when they had a chance to win it. And, you know, I think my parents really inspired me in different ways. My dad was one of the most creative people I'd ever met. And he was so good at seeing the big picture and figuring out what needs to be done. And I tell this story in the book, but I love this story so much. It was 1992. Northwest Airlines had a half price sale, and we had to order tickets over the phone. And my dad was going to buy 22 tickets,

because my sister was getting married that summer. And he was getting tickets for so many different trips. And he had them all lined up. And he was calling for about five hours. And it was busy. Like you weren't even put on hold back then you had had to redial so he's been hanging up redialing hanging up redialing and he's looking at the northwest pamphlet and he notices at the bottom it says you know espanol number so he calls the spanish-speaking number and the guy is you know answers it you know hello you know buenos noches and he number and the guy answers it, you know, hello, buenos noches. And the guy's like, yes, but no one has ever asked me that before. And he said, can you take reservations in English? And he said, I can. And, you know,

the deal expired at midnight. It was like 11.45. If he hadn't gotten on the phone then, he never would have gotten the tickets. You know, he saved thousands of dollars by creatively recognizing recognizing you know this spanish-speaking number at the bottom of the pamphlet oh wow hey it's you know that we're problem solvers and we're fixers and that's how we roll you know we we figure it out and we we get it on you know we we find those avenues so that's one of the great things about being ceos and leaders is is that's usually's usually what we're trying to kind of results-oriented there. So, what was the proponent that made you want to write this book? You know, I've been researching and teaching this topic for over 20 years. And, you know, I like to say it's my heart and soul.

It's like everything that I really believe in. I really believe that reading this book will make you not just a better leader or a better CEO, but also a better spouse, better parent, a better friend, a better colleague. It helps you, you know, see the big picture, understand other people and understand what people need. You know, earlier, I said that the reason why inspiring is so universal, as part of our psychological architecture is because it satisfies fundamental human needs. And a phrase that I really like to use in the classroom to emphasize this is that different people have different needs at different times. And what that means is that for us to inspire someone or meet them where they are or meet the moment, we have to understand what other people need in that moment. And so, how can we be better and more effective at taking other people's

perspectives and really understanding that? So, I really believe this book is going to, you know, like I said, make people better leaders, better spouses, better parents, with 20 years, you know, of my own scientifically based insights, but lots of also personal stories. And I mean, that's just, that's just really important. I wish more, you know, I mean, I meet people and they go, I'm not a leader. I don't have a title of a leader. I'm just a manager. I'm just a person in the company. I'm like, no, you could, anybody can lead. I mean, you may not be able to, people up and fire them or something if you don't have that in your job title, but you can lead. And people tend to aspire to leaders. We were talking about this on an earlier show today about how a lot of people leave companies over poor leadership, and it's an issue. I mean, I think you said something incredibly important, which is,

what does it mean to lead someone? What does it mean to inspire someone? And you have the potential to influence someone, to inspire them, or to infuriate them whenever they give you their attention. Sounds like a first night in marriages. Yes. Great. I thought it was up to 10 already. Not 10?

Yeah, we move it around. Okay. Yeah, yeah. And anytime someone gives you their attention, you're going to impact them. And that's why, I mean, in the book, I call it the leader amplification effect. And the leader amplification effect is basically whatever you do as a leader gets amplified because people are giving you their attention. And that attention intensifies their reaction to whatever you're doing. So, you know, a constructive comment to someone from a leader can come across

as devastating criticism. But an offhand compliment can come across as glorious praise, right, when it comes from someone from someone that you look up to. And so, it's really important to remember that as leaders, when we're in position of authority, but even when just people respect us or look to us, we're going to impact them through our behavior. And we have a choice. Are we going to act in ways that infuriate them or are we going to act in ways that inspire them? Yeah. And so, you teach people how to develop that leadership skill, how to go from zero to leader, I guess, technically? Jared Yeah, I guess that's right. Let me ask you a question. And, you know, one of the things that we do in my research and what I do in my teaching is I ask people to tell me about a leader that

inspired them. So, tell me about a leader that inspired them. So tell me about someone in your life. Could come from your childhood, could be contemporary, could be early on in your career. But tell me, I'd love to hear, Chris, you tell me about someone that inspired you. What was it about them that inspired you? There was this burger joint that I went to the other day,

and it was the most amazing. No, no, no. I'm just kidding. No, it could be. That could be, right? Burgers inspire me. No, don't do that, folks. Lou Tice, I don't know if you ever heard of him. He was a guy who used to do a lot of motivational stuff in the 90s, 80s, 90s.

I mean, he was an older gentleman at the time. He probably had been doing it for a lot of years. I don't have a quote bio. I don't know why I'm wandering on this. But I had been learning to look outside of the box for most of my life because I grew up in a cult. I think we mentioned that earlier. Was that prior show? And so I was constantly, you know, I was one of those people that, you know, they'd be like, you just have to have faith, Chris.

And I'm like, no, I need an explanation, like a logical, reasonable. This needs to make sense to me. I was one of those idiots. Still am. And so I kind of learned to think outside the box because I grew up born into a box. And so trying to have a vision outside of it. So help me with vision. It really kind of shaped me.

It's kind of funny. I kicked the experience, but I probably wouldn't be who I am without it. Held a seminar. And I i was working a car dealership and they sent us to the seminar with lou tice and he he did the nine dot box experiment with me i don't know if you've ever heard of it of course i know the nine dot box yeah yeah and that was the first time i'd ever seen it or heard of it i was like 18 1920 or something and and what he enabled me to see even though i failed the experiment was that i had been living that way for a long time and it was it had kind of become one of my little tools that i was good at i was i was good at looking outside the box you know and so that really inspired me there was a lot of other stuff that he did in the

seminar that was really inspiring. I still have his book to this day, the manual from it. But the thinking outside the box thing, that's made all the difference in my life. And it gave me a reference to where I finally was like, okay, this is what I do and this is what I like to do. I talked about my dad, like noticing the Spanish speaking number, right? That's like thinking outside the box. And I think, you know, trying to find those creative solutions. And in this case, you know, one of the things that really helps us in be leaders effectively, you mentioned communication, right? Is finding some way to

communicate. So, in this case, you had been living in a box and this nine-dot exercise, which to solve it, you have to do a straight line through all the things. The only way to solve is to literally have the pencil go outside the box, you know, is the way to solve that. You know, that became a metaphor for you. And one of the things that I've shown in my research, I think, is two really important things. One is that to be really inspiring, we got to find a way to simplify our messages to their core essence, and to visualize them, to make them come to life with a metaphor. For example, we, my colleagues and I have analyzed, you know, every convention speech of the 20th century of Democrats and Republicans. And what we found controlling for economic factors like unemployment,

GDP inflation, controlling for incumbency, controlling for even the polls at the time of the first convention, how much visual metaphorical language you use in your speech predicts who wins. And so that becomes really important. So for you, this nine dots is like a visual understanding of thinking outside the box. And we all we all we need something that like that connects us, right? My I show this video in class of Jim Valvano, and he's a basketball coach who won nine consecutive do or die games in 1983, seven of which they were behind or tied with less than a minute to go. So just an incredible string of victories. And it was voted the top college basketball moment of the entire 20th century, his national title. And he did this speech afterwards, and he talked about his dad. He talked about his dad motivating him, his dad inspiring him. But he said, you know, when he first made the NCAA tournament, his dad brought him up to his bedroom.

And he talked about, you know, his dad never let him up to his bedroom. And his dad never left New York. He thought everything north of the George Washington Bridge was Canada. But he said, my bags are packed for you. When you win the national title, I'm going to be there. And I love that phrase, my bags are packed for you. And so my wife and I use that now with each other. When we go through difficult times, we say to each other, my bags are packed for you. Yeah, wife and i use that now with each other when we go through difficult times we say to each other my bags are packed for you yeah i'm there for you

times wow yeah that's that's that's what happened my first six marriages the what happened to the other three there wasn't there was there's always been six okay it's the callback joke for the show we've been yeah no i get it people come up to me and they go, how many marriages do you have? Because you keep moving the number around. And I'm like, zero. That's the joke. That's the punch line. So that's the fun part.

Anyway, yeah, it's, and to me, part of it was I was being gaslit and told I was, you know, the bad one insane. I was wrong because I wasn't buying the cult. I wasn't buying the, you know. And so for me, it was very freeing because I learned there were other people who thought like me outside the cult. And George Carlin was one of those people who helped me realize that I found other like-minded thinkers. And I was able to go, okay, I'm not insane. I'm not the problem.

I'm not, you know, I'm not the problem i'm not i'm not you know i'm still the problem but according to some people but that's another story your first six ex-wives yeah my first five the there was only five where are you getting six from i don't know but yeah we'll just keep going down like people literally they do come up to me and they go how many times you've been married anyway after they after they scream, the grace of the idea. What have we touched on about the book that we want to tease out to get people to pick it up? I mean, I think one of the things that's got a number of scientifically backed, but practical exercises that you can implement in your daily life to become more inspiring.

One of them is, you know, one of the things I asked you to do is to think about inspiring figure in your own life. And I think one of the things that we can think about is how can we emulate that person? Like, what is it about that person that inspires us? And how could we capture that same inspiring tendencies in our own behavior? I think is one of those ones. I also go through ways that we can get into different ways of getting into different mindsets. So, when I want to be more visionary, how do I get to become more visionary? When I want to be a better exemplar, how to become the best exemplar I can be? How can I get into a mentor state of mind so that I can steer and direct and guide people to reach their full potential?

Yeah. Or how can I just abuse them enough to get what i want wait is that a thing no i'm just kidding don't do that folks but you talked about in the book about how you you you you isolated or or asked people about you know an inspiring leader but then there was the leader that there was the antithesis that i guess that pissed people off and did something about it. You know, I got fired from my job at McDonald's when I was a kid, started my first company, and it was the greatest thing that ever happened to me. And yeah, I'm kind of still bitter and angry about it, but I'll get over it someday. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, like I said at the beginning, like there's the inspiring leader and there's infuriating leader and they exist on this continuum essentially right and and they are the infuriating leader is the antithesis right it's

you know the goateed version you know that the evil version that always is the goatee right you know it's it's that person and we can learn from both reflecting on the people that infuriated us and by reflecting the people inspired us and because some of the best things that we can do in life is commit to not doing certain actions or behaviors that have really troubled us or made us create that seething cauldron of rage and resentment. Oh, wow. Yeah. So is that a good sort of, is the results good on that where maybe you can, I don't

know, maybe i'll just be an evil leader i mean if maybe if it helps people get pissed at me and then go on to greatness i i think you know i'll say a couple things about being that evil sort of leader if you will i mean let me just say one thing there's certain certain aspects that are like being visionary can be used for evil purposes. You know, many cult leaders are visionary, right? They're very good at creating a vision that really is seductive and gets people to buy in. And so, being visionary in and of itself is not necessarily inspiring, right?

Because you could have used that visionary characteristics for infuriating ends, if you will. Oh, I mean, technically, you know, I mean, you can't make everyone happy. I probably made some mistakes. I know I've made mistakes, let's be honest here. In your first seven marriages, yeah. My first seven marriages. And is it seven? And I don't know, I can't feel my legs anymore from all the divorces but you know i i imagine you know there are mistakes i mean even if you're a good leader there's evil leaders

they're just pure evil i suppose and bad but i mean there's times where i've made missteps and mistakes i've mishandled people i've misread maybe the lay of the land and taken action on it and maybe it wasn't you know oh we fired the guy for the wrong reason oops my bad and you know i don't know i guess in some way you know hopefully it it motivates people i've i've certainly had a scene of bad bosses in my life where i've gone i'm never going to be like that and i'm going to do better and build a better widget and yeah but it's interesting you break all those differences down and what inspires people and i don't know now i'm gonna lay asleep at night going should i be an evil machiavellian leader or

should i be good machiavellian leader but i think i think hope springs eternal right so giving people hope i think is you know that's that's the human cornerstone of human nature is hope. Because have you seen us lately? We need as much hope as we can get. Yeah, but I mean, I think even, you know, whether or not you're, you know, a Trump supporter or not, like the phrase, make America great again is a hopeful message, right? It's about this belief that America was the best country in the world. It's currently not today, but it can be again with the right leadership. And that's what gets people attracted and on board. And I think that that's really important.

You know, one thing I want to address is something that you said that's really important, which is, you know, we all make mistakes, right? And that's one of the things that, you know, is really important. And there's a really important distinction that matters a lot for thinking about how we think about our mistakes that can make us more versus less inspiring. And one of the things that I've shown in my research is that it turns out shame is not a very constructive emotion. Shame makes us want to avoid. Shame makes us feel so bad, we want to put our head in the ground. We want to become an ostrich, right? And so, when we feel

shame about, we all make missteps, right? If we feel shame about that misstep, we're not going to take any reparative action. We're going to want to hide and we're going to want to become small. But guilt and say, look, I messed up. I want to make this better. I want to look to the future. I want to be forward-focused, and I'm going to take these actions to recover and to help make amends. That is how we become more inspiring, is not from hiding, but from engaging. Pete Ah, shame. That's one of those things. I mean, is shame ever productive? I mean, I don't know. Pete I mean, I think guilt is productive, but shame isn't, right?

Shame is really this sort of hot feeling of hating yourself and just wanting to, you know, abnegate the self versus, you know, look, I made a mistake. This is what I did wrong. This is what I'm going to do in the future so I don't make that same mistake. Again, it's about focusing forward towards a brighter tomorrow rather than dwelling and recriminating the past. I'm still working on my therapist with a shame, so I'll let you get over it. It's not like Howard Stern half the time, don't I?

It's a lot of therapy. So do you do anything else in your work? Do you do coaching or consulting? Sure, do a ton of consulting, a lot of coaching. You know, one of the things that has become really important, I think, is, you know, I can apply these principles in a variety of different ways, right? And so, I can help people be better decision makers, right? Help people create more fair systems and more fair processes. But I do think, you know, the really the foundation of

being a more inspiring versus a more infuriating person I've come up with, since I wrote the book, so this is actually in the book is this sort of, I call it reaping what you sow. And you know, that's a phrase from the Bible, reap what you sow. And it's really means two different things, right? The first meaning is, our actions today have consequences tomorrow. But there's something I think even bigger, which is that what we put out in the world comes back to us, right? What we reap, what we, you know, we reap what we sow, it comes back to us. But I've changed the spelling of it. So reap is R-E-A-P, my acronym is R-E-I-P. So, it starts with reflecting. Reflect on your own experiences when you were inspiring and when you were infuriating. Second is E, emulate. Think about those inspiring leaders from your own life. How can you emulate them? I is make an intention.

One thing that you can do tomorrow to be more inspiring? And then P is develop a practice of being more inspiring. I like that. I need to do that. We know to self, put that on the computer or something up on the side to remind myself of that every day. I'm,

I'm too busy going, how can I be uninspiring and destroy people? You know, like we were talking about with the bad leader. So I got to flip that switch. So, and how can people find out more about your consulting services? On glenski.com, you know, it's all there. Can I say one more quick thing, which I think would be really helpful for all of your listeners. I use the word practice before, like in setting up a practice. And I want to tell you about one simple practice you can do

every single day that will spread the seeds of inspiration. Every morning, over a cup of coffee, a cup of tea, a Diet Coke, whatever it is that you're drinking that morning, is send one email or one text to someone in your orbit, thanking them for something they did to you, or complimenting something they did well. And what I've shown in my research is that when we do that, when we send that text, send that email, we brighten that person's day. But almost always, they're going to write back to us. And they're going to express joy in having received that text. And then that's going to brighten your day us. And they're going to express joy in having received that text. And then that's going to brighten your day. And that's really what I mean by reaping what you sow. And I'll tell you a quick story. So, I was doing a lecture for 50 CEOs and presidents through YPO,

the Young Presidents Organization. And I gave them this call to action. I called this, you know, inspiring leadership call to action at 10.15 in the morning. And we're going to take a break at 10.30. And I said, I want you to pick three people who have less power than you at your organization and send them a note of gratitude or a compliment. And at 10.29, one of the CEOs raises his hand. And I say, yeah. He says, I already sent my three emails.

I already got three responses. The people were so overjoyed at my responses. One of them even said, I'm finally going to take my spouse to that restaurant they always wanted to go to. And I think there's two really interesting things. First is, CEOs are very impulsive. I couldn't even wait to the break to do this. But the second thing is,

it took him almost no time. Like, within less than 15 minutes, he had set three communications and received three communications back. And so, you can really see. So, when I talk about developing inspiring practice, one inspiring practice that we can all do is we can, on a daily basis, reach out to someone and just say, it could be someone from your past. It could be someone that really, you know, the person inspired you in the past. You could react to them and say, hey, I was just reflecting today how much you inspired me 10 years ago. And that's going to make their life. It's going to make their world. It's going to make their day a better place. I can write them and say, hey, thanks for lending that money. I'm

never going to pay you back, but I really appreciate you and lending me that money i thank you very much does it sound like you're good yeah yeah you could you could you could email your third wife and thank her for putting you on a different trajectory no there's only two we're just having fun we're all over the place. I'm going to get more questions after this show. Callback jokes are the greatest on shows. So it's been wonderful to have you on. Thank you so much.

I'm going to read your book because I'm, I mean, leadership is hard and it kind of changes too. You know, I've gone from the old style of kind of Peter Drucker-ish sort of leadership to now you kind of have to be more emotional or what's the word I'm looking for? Empathic. Empathic. You have to have more... Emotional intelligence. You have to like give a shit about people

for all of a sudden or something. I don't know. Anyway. But, you know, it's different generations now that they want something different from the business experience. They're not happy. You know, when I was young, a place I worked at, a guy, one of my CEOs that I worked with was complaining.

He goes, one of the employees came up to me and they were bitching about how no one ever says thank you. Like when, you know, we tell them, hey, go over there and fix the copy or no one says thank you. And he goes, I find that really irritating. He goes, the thank you is the check you get every two weeks on Friday. And I'm like, it's not really, I mean, I don't expect everyone to walk around and say thank you all the time, but, you know, I mean, maybe a pat on the back or, you know, hey, you're doing a great job sort of thing is warranted.

But, you know, the check really at the end of the week is an expectation i think it's more like a fulfillment of contract or something i don't know yeah i think that's right yeah but now you got to be all benevolent and crap and you can't be so machiavellian and dark triad traits and you know just fire people at will you just you got to you know connect with them and but i think it's a better model that we're at now in our development of the leadership because you know you're really looking instead of trying to drive a horse lead a horse and force a horse to water you know by beating it you're you're like trying to inspire the best of human nature and minds and win over minds and hearts and get people to want to do things for the for the good of it which is unfortunate because I miss the old days, but that's a different story. You know, you've used the word Machiavelli in a

number of times today. And I think what Machiavelli is all about is being the person other people want you to be so that you can retain power. So, a Machiavelli might be actually a very inspiring leader because that person knows that's my ticket to gaining and retaining power so there's a certain browns leadership and it's not all pretty but you know there's some people that bash Machiavellians we had a long conversation on the prior podcast that's why it's bleeding over but I think it's you know it's a thing too but normally when I think of being a good leader I try to be benevolent and there's some Machiavellianism to that, where you try and be a good leader, try and be fair. You try and be a good judge.

You try not to be asshole number one, which is usually my problem. I mean, I will say one thing, though, about being benevolent. You know, I got to interview the Columbia University football coach a couple years ago. So this person was brought in from Penn. He was one of the, had the most winning records of any Ivy League coach. And Columbia hadn't won a game in over two seasons. And, you know, within two years, he took them to a winning record. And, you know, from no wins, I think to two and eight.

And then the next year, I think they were like seven and three, like just remarkable turnaround. And when I interviewed him, he said, here's one of the most difficult decisions I have to make every with every team, which is, who can I yell at? I have to yell at someone, I have to make an example, I have to really highlight when someone does something wrong. And if I yell at the wrong person, the whole team will turn against me. And there was a situation recently where Steph Curry threw basically a touchdown pass that led to a turnover, and the other team got like a quick transition three on the other end. And Steve Kerr called a timeout immediately and just lit into Steph. Because one of the things he's been preaching from day one of training camp is we've got to cut down our turnovers. That's what's costing us is turnovers. And everyone talked about the fact that, you know, Steph is the person that

you can yell at really is helpful for Steve Kerr to, you know, to set an example and the most important person on the team, you know, is willing to withstand that. It shows a, how important turnovers are. It's part about vision. He's been preaching that for a long time, but you know, as a leader, sometimes you do have to yell at someone. You have to tell someone they're not performing well, and you gotta let everyone understand what's the standard and what's acceptable. Yeah. And sometimes you got to send that message to like, people have to see that, you know, it's, it's's it's one of those things i remember i can't i think it was the the coach of the jazz back in the 80s and 90s and he he headed the team

that went to the olympics and michael jordan was on that team and michael jordan went out in the first two quarters like just dominated and put up like record. And he says, what do you say to Michael Jordan to take him to the next level for the second half of the game? And Michael Jordan was in the locker room and he turned to him in front of everyone. He goes, Michael, you need to pass the ball and share more. It's like, whatever, coach. I think it was Chuck Daly.

And he is the coach of the Detroit Pistons. And they won two championships. Yeah. Yeah, it was funny.aly, and he is the coach of the Detroit Pistons, and they won two championships. Yeah, it was funny. What do you say to Michael Jordan? But no, in all fairness to that, it's a very famous, their first championship that they won, John Paxson scored 10 points in the fourth quarter. And literally, I think it was their first championship or one of them. And, you know, Phil Jackson looked at Michael Jordan said, who's open, you know, and John Paxson was open. And so he got the ball to John Paxson and John Paxson became sort of this

hero, but that's a good example of leadership, right? Is that everyone's keen on your Michael, someone's wide open past that person, the ball. Yeah it thank you very much for adam for coming on the show yeah sure.com so people can find you on your website adamglinski.com this is is it a-d-a-m-g-a-l-i-n-s-k-y.com thank you very much for coming the show we really appreciate it i loved it thank you so much for having me thank you and thanks to our audience for tuning in order the book where refined books are Inspire the universal path for leading yourself and others. January 21st, 2025. It's out. Pick it up wherever and his other books wherever fine books are sold.

Thanks to my audience for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com. Fortress, Chris Voss. LinkedIn.com. Fortress, Chris Voss. Chris Voss won the TikTok. He owns Crazy Place. The internet.

Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time.