The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Irenic Principle: Fiction: the Precursor of Fact by Alan Roderick-Jones

Episode Date: March 19, 2026

Irenic Principle: Fiction: the Precursor of Fact by Alan Roderick-Jones https://www.amazon.com/Irenic-Principle-Fiction-Precursor-Fact/dp/1962402053 Irenic Principal is not just a novel—it is an experience, a revelation, and a mirror held up to the fragile soul of humanity. Alan Roderick-Jones weaves a story that transcends the ordinary boundaries of science fiction and political thrillers, delivering a work as intimate as it is epic. The book dares us to believe that peace might not merely be an aspiration of humankind, but a fundamental law of the universe itself, waiting to be uncovered. Through the brave character of Dr. Jessica Peake—brilliant, flawed, haunted yet unyielding—we are drawn into a narrative that is both breathtakingly human and cosmically vast. The novel moves with cinematic clarity, where every scene feels lit by both the harsh glare of conflict and the quiet glow of conscience. The imagery lingers long after the page is turned: Afghan mountains scarred by war, the cold intrigue of global power brokers, and the trembling beauty of a mother’s prayer for her child. Roderick-Jones reminds us that science without conscience is peril, and conscience without courage is silence. This is a story that seduces the mind while breaking open the heart, urging us to consider what it truly means to live in alignment with the deeper forces of existence. Irenic Principal is a rare kind of book—urgent yet timeless, daring yet gentle. It is a novel that belongs not just on the shelf, but in the reader’s very bloodstream. Read it, and you will not leave unchanged. — John Slowsky, Director • Visual Storyteller • Filmmaker

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Opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host or the Chris Foss show. Some guests of the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it's not endorsement or review of any kind. Today's featured author comes to us from Books to Lifemarketing.co.uk. With expert publishing to strategic marketing, they help authors reach their audience and maximize their book's success. David an amazing young man on the show we're going to talk about his wild life and insights and journey and all that good stuff and some of his novels as well. Today we have the author of the fourth coming book that came out on October 13th, 2025. I don't know why I said forthcoming.

It is entitled, Ironic, Principle, Fiction, Fiction, The precursor of fact by Alan Rutterick Jones. We're going to get into with him and find out his journey through life and why he write those books and some of the other things he's done in Hollywood. Alan is an artist, painter, art director, production designer, screenwriter, and director who has worked in film and television since 1961. He's lived in Malibu, California with his wife for the past 41 years, and he has so successfully done in the past.

he is feeling joyfully redesigning the rest of his golden years at this point in his life. Welcome to the show, Alan. How are you? That's always that leading question. I'm in it, but not of it. I can't be part of the chaos.

Ah, we're kind of chaotic here on the show with their jokes and stupid things that I say. So, Alan, give us your dot-coms. Welcome to the show. Where can people find you on the interwebs? In the universe? Where we're in the... I'm in Westlake Village in my garden right now.

Okay, so everyone can find him in his garden. Would you like to give the address, Ellen out? No. I didn't buy the house, actually. I bought the garden. I called my wife after losing the house in Malibu. Oh. And I said, darling, we're not buying the house.

We can lock it up and be in Tuscany or province, but we're buying the trees. Ah, the garden, you know, it's a beautiful place many times. Yeah. So any dot-coms or websites for you or people can find out more about you? Yes, it's Alan R-J-Artisan.com. A-L-A-N-R-J-Artisan.com. So give us a 30,000 overview of what's in Irenic principles. Is that Irenic or Irenic?

Irenic comes from a Greek word, which really means in a time like now to fulfill peace. And then I titled it also Fiction, the precursor of fact. because fiction doesn't really follow fact. It announces it. Every great transformation begins really as someone's impossible vision. And the erratic principle is about peace, not a passive hope, but as active creation through our own consciousness. And I originally had the lead as a man.

man when it was a screenplay, who is the leading physicists of the world and is able to collect and enhance consciousness. And I was at a party in Hollywood one night, and these young men were talking. I said, excuse me, are you scientists? And they said, oh, yes. So I told them the premise of my story. And the next day I get this phone call from Stephen. And he said, my name's Stephen.

Are you, Alan? I said, yes. He said, could I come and see you? I have heard about your project. He comes down and we're having lunch And I said consciousness permeates everything And he said neutrinos do And I said what is a neutrino

And he went quiet And he said billions of them every second Pass through your body And I said what if neutrinos were consciousness And he went silent Took his glasses off, looked at me Carried on eating Put his glasses back on

Said Alan You must be 80 years ahead I'm yours Anyway, he flew me up to Livermore and gave me all the technical knowledge I needed. And when I finished the screenplay, scientists got the Nobel Peace Prize for discovering neutrinos. And the day I sent it over to DreamWorks for them to read.

A scientist said, A neutrino's contained matter is this the holy grail of the universe? Anyway, my scientist, my physicist, let's call her. She doesn't have visions despite being the scientist she has. She has them because she understands that consciousness and quantum reality are really the same thing. And she discovers through out-of-body experiences and all sorts of wonderful things that happen to her. that what I call the primal creative force of life, the dreaming mind,

comes forth through these minute particles. And in my book, Conversations with Einstein, you could say, Alan, how did you have a conversation with Einstein? I have a dear friend who's a seer, amazing seer. And one day she said, how's ultimately man doing, which was the title of the book at that time? He said, oh, it's on the shelf. Spilberg said he liked it, but not for him right now.

She said, we can have a reading. And I jokingly said, what, with Einstein? She said, why not? And then about a month later, she calls me. She said, come over. I'm free. So I go over, and she's standing at the front door, smiling. I said, well, you look happy.

She said, he's already here. And he's telling me the prodigal son has returned. And I said, ah, the naive prodigal son. and then she went silent. She said, oh, he's now telling me that we're all naive where in this human body. We're all mythologists. Oh, really? Anyway, I had three readings with him, and those three readings are in the book,

Conversations with Einstein, and then they incorporated what he told me into the screenplay and then now having written the novel from the screenplay. Wow. That's quite extraordinary. That's quite a story. Yeah, that's quite a story. I mean, I talked to God the other night, but it was just really strong edibles. Not sure what that means.

Now, you've done stints in Hollywood and different things we're going to get into, work with George Lucas. But the ironic principle began as a screenplay in 1984, nearly 40 years before you made a novel. Is that correct? And what was the story behind that? What was the story about? What was the story behind its development over 40 years, I guess? Or it's a long story. It started off as someone asking me to write an idea of a screenplay.

And he was my, in 1972, I met this young boy. I mentioned him now, Prem Rawat. Uh-huh. At the age of eight and a half, his father passed in the foothills of the Himalayas. Oh, no. And his father was a master. like I always say like Jesus was a master who revealed that inner truth and he revealed that inner truth and when he passed young Prem was eight and a half

but Prem had always from his birth had been talking to people about meditating anyway he woke up and sat on the stage in front of the microphones there's a beautiful photograph in my memoir the empty stage and he said why are you crying don't you realize the perfect master never leaves I have come many times before, and this time I come with all power. And in my lifetime, man will know the truth. Anyway, I met him at the age of 14, and I was 32 at that time. And I received this experience.

I have my Harley-Davidson, and I had my Duke of Windsor on three pieces of suit, driving my Harley to go and see him where he was in London, outside of London. And I received this experience, only... not even being told really what it was. And I'm crying on the way back, and I go off into the pub. And they said, Alan, you're crying? I said, yes, I know what we're all looking for. And I told them, and I won't tell you what they said.

Was it good or bad? Were they impressed? I said, you drinks from me now. Because all it does, it shows you how to go within, and know who you are within every breath. You know, the kingdom of heaven is within, so it says. And it's a state of awareness, a state of consciousness, which that's how my books arrive. That's how my life is now since that period of time.

You know, it's over 50 years now. Yeah. And Graceland and I broke out, and we bought a farm in Wales. And we lived on that farm, and the children were born on that farm. And then I wanted to be with him a little more. and he was in a funky old house in Malibu, so we moved to Malibu. And never left in 1984. Oh, 1924.

And I started writing another mythological fantasy, which I just finished the novel. That was also a screenplay. And then I decided I had write the erratic principle from the screenplay. And it developed. You've even Steven Spielberg looked at it at one point. Now, tell us about this. Evidently, you worked alongside George... Don't say his company, but I got a letter back, you know.

Okay, all right. Now, you worked alongside George Lucas on Star Wars. What was that about? And tell us how maybe some of that plays into your book. Well, I started as a junior in the art department on a film called The Victors. Then went on to Beckett, and I was with the best mentors I could ever be with, who had all just come off. The art department had all just come off of Lawrence of Arabia.

with John Box, the production designer. And then I went on to Beckett. Peter O'Toole and Richard Burton got me really drunk one day. Peter O'Htel and Richard Burton got you drunk? Those two? Are you sure? I've heard the stories about Richard. I didn't get them drunk.

It's in the memoir. Oh, Richard Burton. What a man. I went on to 2001. I went on to carry-on cowboy, a criminal memorandum, the wrong box with Bickie Attenborough directing, who also did Young Winston that I worked on.

Nicholas and Alexander, the same producer who produced Lawrence of Arabia. I worked with him for two years on Nicholas, ended up in Madrid for a year, then went to Rome, went to Africa, and then received this experience and dropped out, really, after Young Winston. And then I got a call one day from John Barry,

production designer, who I was working on a life of William Shakespeare with. He said, what are you doing right now, Alan? I said, it's bloody cold, and I'm milking the cow. Nice to hear you, John. We need you. I said, why do you need me? He said, we're working on this silly sci-fi movie, and we're going off to Africa,

and I need you to come and look after everything and get it ready for when we get back. So I went down, I had my long overcoat. I had a beard longer than yours down here, and I walked in, and he said, my God, you look like a whoopee. And I said, what the hell is a wookie? The world had no idea. And then we locked up the door. We locked up the house and I decided we would go down there my two little kids.

And I got a call from a beautiful friend who I met here through knowledge. I call it knowledge, this experience in 174. I met her in California. She said, what are you doing? I said, we're locking the house and we're coming down to London. She said, we've just got back from London. I said, who are you with? She said, I got married.

Come and see us. I said we could be there for a late lunch. So I knocked on the door in Chelsea, and who opened the door but George Harrison from the Beatles? She had married George Harrison. So while we were doing Star Wars, instead of sleeping with my dad, thing, with my mom, and then with my aunts, they invited us to live with them. So we lived in the middle lodge all the time I was doing Star Wars. Wow. And what was your position on the set of Star Wars? I was really an art director, but stupidly, I didn't get my...

name on the unit list the same week I was leaving and so I never got my credit. Oh no. But I was responsible for drafting and co-designing the canteener, the garage sequence, finishing the Millennium Falcon Hanger. And we were finishing it just before they were going to get back. You have to imagine this beautiful, big wooden shaped thing on stage. And I was getting it already in dress and the painters came in and Dixie Dean, the head painter, I said, Dixie, when I come back on Monday, I want to see this looking like a piece of crap, you know. It has to look really old. And when I got back on Monday, my jaw dropped.

The Millennium Falcon, as you know it, was sitting there ready to be shot, right? And I had gone on the back lot and found all this junk, metal junk, and numbered it. and on my drawing of the rim of the millennium falcon, I put these numbers. And the prop department, I told them to clean all the junk, and where you see the numbers, just put all the junk up around the rim of the set.

And then in the canteener, Roger Christian, who was the set decorator at the time, but he was in Africa while I was doing all this work and his work actually, had bought an old jet plane. When I went down to the prop room, when I was drafting up the, can'tina.

You know what I mean by drafting, doing the plans, the elevations, the details. There were these insides of jet engines. So I said to John, the production designer, John, these would be great for me to put across the bar. And these different plastic bottles I've found have interesting shapes. We can anodize them gold and silver. So when you really look at that film and look at the... central bar. It's all jet engines and plastic bottom.

Really? Yeah. That's wild. I remember seeing that movie in the theaters in 1977, 78. You must have been young, man. It's 50 years ago now. Can you not rub it in there, bud? Come on, Alan.

We're a bunch of young 39-ish-year-old dudes sitting around chatting here. Let's not break the fourth wall in the audience. Oh, let me tell you this quick. story. One Sunday coming back from the set, there was a lot of laughter going on the lawn in front of the George's Victorian mansion there. I had a quick shower and went over and George handed me at Pims and all this crowd was sitting, sat around this guy in a green jumpsuit. I said, George, who's that? He said, oh, he's just finished Popeye. He's on his way home. His name's Robin Williams. So we had Robin Williams having us in fits.

I'd never laugh like that in my life. Oh, he was the greatest. I mean, from the moment, I think I remember for seeing him on stand-up. No, it would have been Morg and Mindy was the first problem. We never had that in England. Oh, really? They didn't let that show go over there. It was kind of a controversy because he was living with the girl, I think, but they weren't married.

And so that was the age of three's company, you know, and everyone was upset. Oh, he's the guy's living and said, whatever. But yeah, I, yeah, yeah. But I, I, I, when I was young, I love Mark and Mindy. It was so funny. He had so much energy as a comedian. He was probably one of the greatest comedians of all time. Yeah, I did a good laugh, especially shows at the Met.

Is it at the Met? He did two shows, yeah. Yeah. I mean, he, he, Jonathan Winters was a master of, of characters and comedy. And, and he could, he could, he could, he could, he could crack up. Jonathan Winters put him on the floor laughing. I mean, you know, I was seeing both of them on the Carson show, still one of my favorite Carson shows to watch.

Jonathan Winters and Robert. Oh, yes. They've been playing that recently. Yeah, I mean, it's one of the best Carson episodes ever, in my opinion. Anything that cracks up Carson, whether it's, I forget his name of the insult comic. But, yeah, Robin Williams would always come. And, you know, I mean, Carson would just sit there and just be like, I'm just going to let him do all the work.

you know I'm not even going to try and keep up with this one but yeah what a great thing so you work with over 50 years you worked in Hollywood

and doing all these things and different things now one thing you didn't get to on the question because you give me a great description of the wonderful stuff you did on Star Wars there but how did maybe that film

play into your book the erinic principle did it have an effect okay no it had no effect on it really at all. So many of your PR department thinks it did.

That's why they post that question. Oh, really? So over 50 years. So over 50 years. How did it have an effect? I don't. I, because everything that came to me,

through me, I'm very open when I work. Even when I said, I was asked to do all these drawings for Lord of the Rings for the game, for the universe. Do you think that science fiction stuff like Star Wars in your book carries a response? ability to show humanity a better version of itself?

Maybe that was it. I mean, we're living through, in the book, you're living through her vision right now. Okay. Now, who's her? Jessica Pete, my physicist. Protagonist. He's well-renowned, won a lot of awards, and she's living on an island. She could have funded it herself where she lives, but it belongs to what I call the commission,

who actually run everything. everything that goes on in the world in this book. And people ask me, why do you think this book is required? And I said, I think humanity needs this novel, because we've forgotten that every technology, every peace treaty, every breakthrough really started as someone's unrealistic dream. I mean, people's realism, people's fact,

becomes, sorry, let me rephrase that, people's fiction becomes the fact. So that's why I have this title. Of the principle. We've forgotten really that love is within everything. Consciousness is within everything that we live in on our mother earth, this earth. And yet we've lost respect for our mother in the way we treat. it treats it her, him, whatever you want to call it. And we're able, how can I say, that our consciousness now is shaping the future.

And it's sad to see what our consciousness is doing on Mother Earth. For me, I can't go into it because I like to be in this world but not of it, you know? Yeah. And I Carry on, sorry, Chris. Now, you work with Catherine Hepburn. What an amazing actress and lady. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole and Richard Burton, I still have this scene in my head of the three of you drinking. And who won? Who drank the most? I would guess Burton, maybe. Ted Clements, who was an art director on the Vickers. No, on Beckett. We'll go to lunch at the Kingshead Pub and the Shepard

where Shepard and Studios is. And I was looking for Ted and I said to Richard, have you seen Ted? He said he decided he was going to have a drinking competition and he's left. Drinking competition. I said, and then Richard said, stay with us, Alan, you'll be okay.

Come three o'clock. I'm on the floor. I can't move. They walk me out, arm in arm, through the pub, put me in the middle of the limo in the back seat, one sits one side of me, the other sits the other side of me,

So we drive up into the studios and Peter said, stop, stop, stop, stop there. And they built the interior of Canterbury Cathedral on this massive stage and the exterior is on the outside. So they get, Richard pulls me out, Peter comes around, picks me up and then the frog marching me towards the steps going up to the cathedral. And who comes out at the door, John Barry, the production designer. And they taught me. They just dropped me on the floor. And I'm lying on the floor. And one of them says, oh, we're totally responsible for him, John.

We've got to go in and do our job now. And Catherine Hepburn and Peter were on the line in winter. And people always say, Alan, what's your favorite film? And I say the line in winter. I love the lion in winter. I think I was 26, 27 at the time. And we were in Ex-on-Provon, Ireland. And my job was to draw up and draft up the castle

courtyard in a few of the sets, but the first job was designing all the furniture. So I went to the Victorian Albert Museum and got all my research. And then one day I was up in the tower bell in Montmaggio, where Van Gogh used to go and draw, actually. And we built this tower on top. And I was up there on a ladder. And Catherine came out in costume and started to come up the ladder. I said, Catherine, don't come up. Please don't come up. She said, Alan, I won't. I won't. I understand. Thank you. And I went, oh, my God, she knows my name. Catherine?

She knew everybody's name on the set. Oh, really? Yeah, everybody's name. Yeah, I mean, just what an amazing actress. What amazing. And career. And really, I've always loved her. Just, I think she's, she's always been a bit of a spitfire.

You know what I mean? Is that the right word to use from that age? Well, she had just lost Spencer, you know? Spencer had just passed away. Tracy. So those tears, when you see the film again, they're real. Those tears just bloody. Wow.

You know, she was always a spitfire, kind of like Betty Davis. She wasn't afraid to say some shit. So you work with Marlon Brando. I mean, that just must be next great. Yeah, so she was her in Marlon with Charlie Chaplin directing. Oh, wow. What film was that? The Countess from Hong Kong.

Okay. And I remember one morning. just walking down Pinewood Studios to go and have breakfast and in this outside drive area. And walking towards me was Charlie and his wife in his big half, in his big overcoat. And I said, good morning, Mr. Chapman. Good morning, Una.

And he said, good morning, Alan. Thank you for everything you're doing for me. And he walked on. And I turned around and I went, my, what? I'm working with Charlie Chapman. It hadn't really hit me. It was like the second week of seeing him on stage.

And then Brando was always so masculine. But the very first day, he was so late. And Chaplin reamed him. He said, do you think I need you? I've already got someone else lined up. If you're not here tomorrow on time for makeup, out. To Brando. Said that to Brando.

And then Brando gave up because Chapman had a little bit of an ego in some ways because he would always try and tell Brando how to do it, what to do, how to do it, but you don't tell Brando that. Yeah, yeah. And Sophia was so beautiful. She said, Sophia is so beautiful.

I mean, still to this day. She said good morning to me one day. Did she really? That must have been sweet. Well, I was looking down the corridor for breakfast again, and there's two glass doors. And I'm going towards this door, and she comes out and then goes back in.

And then there's another glass door here. And I come past that door and she comes out and she says, Good morning, Alan. Oh, my God. Now I realize I really missed out. I should have said, Sophia. Can I take you for a drink tonight? Take it a lunch.

I would. I would have closed on that. I keep, I don't know, I don't have a joke here. I think I was 25 or something. I was so naive. I was a London naive boy. Oh, well, that may be actually liked you. But, I mean, she is a beautiful woman, extraordinary.

I'm a photographer, and I do a lot of portrait photography. And, I mean, to me, she's one of the most elegant. I love those old 50s, 60s, pictures, the black and white. What about the ones with Norcello? Now, who is he? Now, who is he? Martello Mustioni. The Italian actor, she did about four or five movies with.

I'm not into, I'm into chicks. Marcello, what was his last name? Masrione. Masrioni. No, I should know that name, shouldn't I? He was in eight and a half. Oh, yeah, I do know him. He was a great, he was a great actor.

He was great, died too young. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember him. Yeah, he was in a lot of great stuff. Duh. And you turn me on to a movie, I'm a big film noir. I love film noir. I love big bogey fan. I love bogey.

I love old Hollywood. So all these names you're mentioning, I'm just, I'm just elated by. But I got to go, I don't think I've seen that Sophia Loren Brando movie. It's not a good movie. But it's interesting to watch. And Charlie's in it, too. Oh, Charlie's in it as well as directing, huh? And his son was in it as well.

Uh-huh. I'm looking at a picture from vintage Hollywood Nouveau on Facebook, and it shows a picture of Charlie Chaplin, and it looks like he's doing a read-through, or maybe a scene through. Oh, it's in the book. It's from the book. Yeah.

Oh, is it? There's a chessboard. The memoir is full of photographs. There's some nice photographs. And then I also, the memoir is not just about me. It's about the people I work with, who they were, what they had achieved. So it's interesting. You know, some of those people are alive today.

You could have them, you do the film of the book and replay their part, only older, you know. You could pull that. I'd like to do the film of the erratic principle. Oh, okay. I do that one too. But your other book might be fun if they do it like the Irishman. You remember how they took everybody, made them look younger with computer.

Oh, yes, yeah. You do that with Sophia Loren. She's still alive. Yeah, she's alive. Brando, what a, what an actor. I mean, what, just wanted, he pulled all that shit with Francis Ford Copeland. Apocalypse now, showed up late, overweight, bald, I think it was.

And Francis was like, what the fuck? I bring that out. I bring some of that up in my new novel called the Seven and Thrill, and I put him together with Edward Anhoek who got the Oscar for Beckett. And I was asked to write and move ahead on a screenplay on the life of William Tinder, who wrote the first translation of the Latin Greek that became the King James Bible. And in my story, Edward's already writing that for one of the directors in my story. And he brings it in, or some Wells in to play Henry.

It's not out yet, but it's finished. Wow. I'm going to have to check that out. You know, I'm a big Hollywood black and white. I love black and white movies. I love black and white film. I love my photographs that I've taken black and white. I'm really happy that I grew up in that genre of era, Black and White

TV. Because the way that those directors use shadows, you know, Charlie Chaplin, the way he did that. Film noir. The film noir. No. Yeah, just wonderful. And of course, for me, it's always bogey. I love bogey and Casa Blanca is my favorite film.

Who would you say, out of all the people that you saw and worked with in Hollywood and having that front row seat, you know, and kind of knowing the no in the background, who would you say was the greatest actor of that age, maybe? The greatest actor? Yeah, or actress. Who I've worked with. I mean, I would say, do both if you want. Can I, if Peter O'Toole was brilliant, so was Burton, so was Brando. And they were different periods, different times, to a degree.

And then you got Lawrence Olivier, who was good for his time, his period. Then you got an actual fact, Anthony Hopkins, when he came and met Catherine for line in winter, I don't know if I can get it actually right. She said, oh, Anthony, you got a great voice, you got a good body. but don't act. Be like Spencer. Don't act. Anthony Hopkins? She said that to Anthony Hopkins.

Something like that. And that was online in winter, which I think was his first movie. Wow. Yeah. I'll see if I can pull it up here. But yeah, one of the amazing actors. And yeah, I mean, and the reason I wrote

rewrote ironic principle, we can get back to that, is there were so many wonderful actresses, that they like to be known as female actors. And Cherise Theron, if I pronounce that correctly, I was trying to get it to her company, but I couldn't. So I have to go with my friend, lawyer,

and try and get it over to her to play the lead in this story. She would be brilliant. She's such a great actress. She really is. I mean, she was in Monster. Oh, my God. And you wouldn't recognize her. And, I mean, she, to me,

she's one of the most beautiful women on the planet. and an extraordinary actress of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, and I was like, where's the beautiful woman go, you know, and, but I mean, the, the, the, the acting and the, the, the role that she played in the character, I mean, it was, it was the one where she played the hooker. Yes, so that who kills people, a serial killer, uh, in, in, in Florida. And then, what's her name? I played Thatcher.

Margaret Thatcher? Yeah, who was the actress? I can see it in my head. Margarit Thatcher movie. The movie, The Iron Lady, I think it was. The Iron Lady. Yeah.

I look it up. Who played The Iron Lady? I was trying to get it and I ended up just hitting her. Marriott Street. Merrill Street, yeah, Maris Street. Is there any movie she's bad in at all? I mean, probably not. One of my favorite was the ones she did with Quinn Eastwood.

Which one was that one? When she had lost her husband or something and she lived by herself on her farm. Clint Eastwood comes by to get something for his truck. And what was her name again? I got Margaret Thatcher stuck on the screen. So, oh, Mary Street. Yeah, I've got that. It's all, it's all that.

Bridges of Madison County? Yeah, the Bridges of Madison County, right? That's right it. That's the one. Yeah. That was an amazing film. That was an Oscar, didn't it? Yeah. Yeah. What a great movie. I mean, there's so many great movies. It seems harder and harder to find. Let me ask you this. Is it really true that maybe the old movies were the best and Hollywood doesn't put out the kind of high quality used to?

What's your opinion on that, I guess? There's a few opinions. I don't know how much time we've got, but it was a deep thing. director of photography I worked with, Freddie Young, who was the DP with David Lean on Lawrence, a little gym that I worked on, and Nicholson Alexander. And when I watched that man work and how he created life, if I'm watching a movie and it's not lit well, I'll walk out of the theater. Wow. In the old days, it was about story.

Yeah. And there were lots of wonderful, you watch David Lean. there's always a master two shot, like Kubrick would always do a master two shot. It's so rare that you get a two-shot dialogue happening all the way through, and it's always over your shoulder, here, here, cut, cup, seven seconds, boom, boom.

And that's why I don't like seeing most of the films these days. I like to sit and say, watch an old Hitchcock where he mastered out the camera moves through the floor. Freddie Young said to me one day on Nicholas Allen, don't put all those moldings up there. Close your eyes. He said, no, only half close them. That's what I see.

I see that light. And he showed me how to paint the shadows into the corners and bring down the light on the ceiling, down through the walls and up from the floor. And I don't see much of that. I try to teach all my students that when I lecture to them. But I much prefer watching, as you say, those black and white movies where people walk into the black

and they have dialogue in the black. You know what I mean, maybe. Yeah. They cross over in through the darkness and carry on into the light. The camera's already moving, holding the other person they're having dialogue with way over there. Yeah.

I'd like to see more of that in today's movie making. Somewhere in my, I think, 30s or early 40s, I became aware of the Kira Kowasawa. Oh, he's my favorite, too. I mean, him and I believe, who was his, who is, what is the photographer on set called that designs the... Director of photography? Yeah, the director of photography. The cinematat photographer?

Is that the same as the director? Is that the same as the director of photography? No, cinematographer. That's what Freddie Young was. Okay. To see some of the work that they did early on that used by Hollywood, you know, even George Lucas cited that he pretty much ripped off, which Caracow saw a movie was it? it. He pretty much ripped off. No, not the Seventh Samurai. It was the fortress, the fortress?

Something fortress. Here, I'll pull it up. But he basically ripped off Star Wars because as a child, him and Stephen Spielberg were going to Kirakararov movies that were being featured. They bought him over. They bought him over at one point. Yeah. And he was on it. And I was directing this film, which I've now written the book of, called the, the, the, the, The thunder of gold, the golden thunder. No, sorry, I changed it again, Tyranny of gold. I got to meet Mofuni, and he was the actor in all Kurosawa's films. Oh, wow.

And they said, Alan, Mr. Foon is downstairs waiting for him, and I went down, he was sitting in this lovely three-piece suit, and I pronounced. And he got up and smiled, and we walked to the conference room and had a conference. And as I was talking to the press, in Tokyo, I looked at him and I thought, my God, Anna, there's to Shirene the Funi, your hero in the Seven Samurai. Yeah.

I mean, I love all those films. It was the hidden fortress, like Khorasawa, the hidden fortress. And if you go watch it, and I never, I remember, I don't think I ever watched it before I heard George Lucas admit that he basically peeled it off. and then I went and watched the Hidden Fortress. And if you go watch the Hidden Fortress, it is Star Wars, set in whatever sort of medieval China is 1600s or something. And the characters are the same. Luke, Skywalker, Han Solo, their personalities, even the two kind of comedic relief dorky characters. There were kind of a bunch of stupids that hung out with them during the whole journey they do through the Hidden Fortress.

those are C3PO and and like you can watch the whole movie and you're just like, holy crap, this is plot by plot, step through step scenario through scenario. You know, George never really talked too much. When I first met him, I was there drafting up the canteen

and George walked in and I was introduced to him and I said, oh, I'm writing on a, I'm writing a project about a master and a mythological fantasy story. I had a script yesterday or last week or whatever. He didn't say very much.

He's just smart. I was making a model to pulling the model apart like this, like that. I'd like a jukebox over there. And John Barry said, Alan, draw up a jukebox and put it over there. Ah. In fact, one of the games that we really enjoy playing video games, me and my friends enjoy playing is... This is where I walk back into the house. And this is where I walk back into the house.

Ah, there we go. Our charge is running out. There we go. I plug you in. Alan, it's been wonderful to have you on, and we want to wrap before we lose your battery. Final thoughts as we go out and give people a pitch on where they can order up your book. They can go online to my website, and they can go on to Amazon, but they're cheaper on my website. I've gone black. there I am a bit better they've gone dark they're on Amazon Barnes and Novo and on my website Alan R dash J artisan.com

All right I've really enjoyed talking to you and just excited that people are excited about the book really yeah I think it's wonderful and I think it'd make a great thing let's see if we get You know, George Lucas, he doesn't have to do that Star Wars anymore. He sold all that, eh? You know, he needs a new project he can build into a $2 billion thing to have Disney ruined. Oh! I kid, but can we stop doing the Star Wars thing? It's been done, like 50 times.

We don't need more Star Wars, okay? I mean, more Star Wars, but just not, do we always have to blow up the Death Star all the time? That's all I'm saying. I know, it's 50 years now. Can you believe that? And we blown that thing up like 50 times already. 1976. I like the new plot.

I like the first three. And then after that, I just watched them for the visuals. Yeah. The visuals are still stunning. The art directors, who are art directors, even Les Dilly, who was an assistant at the same time as me there, he became an art director and got his Oscar. And then he went on to do some movies here in Hollywood. And he passed away last year.

He got recognized on Oscars. other night. Oh, wow. Awesome. Yes. Wonderful thing. So we'll look forward to seeing this in the movie theaters. Maybe get Steven Spielberg to write it. Hey, you know, Quentin Tarantino's looking for his final film. There's an idea. There's going to be some blood, though, I think, and violence, but that's... I'm sorry, we could write something.

You'll have to work that out with Tarantino because he may have some ideas, judging about that or you can sell the book to Michael Bay and see how that turns out. Oh, yeah. Most of it will just be explosions, but they're fun. Have you interviewed these people? No, I wish I had. I would love to definitely have it. Michael Mann would be great for it.

Maybe, I don't know. I'm a big fan of Michael Mann's movies. One of my closest buddies is Pierce Brosnan. We've known each other for 27, 28 years. What does he do? I've never heard of Pierce Broston. Has he been in films and all? Have you seen his new show called The Mob?

I haven't. You know, I grew up watching Pierce and the TV show. What was that dorky TV show there on? The mob is great. He plays an Irish. Does he? I will go see it on your recommendation. With Helen Mirren.

It's on Netflix, I think. I'm not quite sure, but he's just finishing the second series right now. Oh, I'll go check it out. I have a hard time seeing him old. He's with Helen Aaron. Oh, really? I mean, Helen's just an amazing. I mean, she's been around forever in Hollywood.

The team, they're brilliant. I'll go see it on your recommendation. I have a hard time seeing him old. I don't know why. He was just such a, he was such a great bond. And I think he's been, there's a couple good movies he was great in, but I don't know. I just, I just have trouble seeing him old. I don't know what it is.

What about the Thomas Crown and the other one where he plays the Irish. Oh, Thomas Crown is one of my favorite movies of all times. And the one where he plays the Irish head of the IRA. I didn't see that one. But Thomas Crown, I've probably watched that movie 50 times. And there's another one he did that got taken off early because the Mel Gibson's company were producing it. Oh, really? I'm called Serafin Falls with Leon Nieson.

They're both young in it. Oh, really? Huh. That's wild. Yeah, the one thing I'll always remember about the one movie we made. mentioned the Thomas Crown Affair. And of course, the original was amazing, too. But with McQueen, oh my God. But I love that movie. And that movie introduced me to the Sinner Man song by trying to cue it. It's not coming. But you know who I am? The great jazz piano singer who wrote the song

Sinner Man. I found that. I heard that song for the first time through that movie, and I fell in love with it. And of course, Renee, what was her name? Who was the actress in Thomas Crime? Yeah. just that was one of the most immaculate movies of all times they were great together would they yeah and you you did not see the ending coming and that was what was great that's you know i'm one of people where i can walk in just about any movie within five minutes i can be like okay this is going to happen the sound ends we don't have to finish this and so i love any movie that can take me to the ending and i don't see it coming i love it you know this i'm sure the main the ones are great that's what i loved about a lot of the english movies you didn't know what the

ending was. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like mine and Python. All right. It's been wonderful to have you on, Andy. Please come back for your next book. We'd love to have you on. Thank you. And I think we got your dot-coms, didn't we? Websites. I think you did. Alan, RJ. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks to Alan for being here. Order up his book, wherever fine books are sold. Ironic principle, fiction, the precursor of fact out October 13th.

2025. Thanks so amaz for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you guys next time. You've been listening to the most amazing, intelligent podcast ever made to improve your brain and your life. Warning, consuming too much of the Chris Walshow podcast can lead to people thinking you're smarter, younger, and irresistible sexy. Consume in regularly moderated amounts. Consult a doctor for any resulting brain bleed. All right, there we go. Ellen, great shit.