The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – John Graham, CEO of LumaFlex & Red Light Therapy Infared Devices for Health

Episode Date: October 4, 2023

John Graham, CEO of LumaFlex & Red Light Therapy Infrared Devices for Health Lumaflex.com MUSCLE RECOVERY Boost your sports performance through faster muscle recovery. Accelerate progress in the gym, on the field or at the track. PAIN RELIEF Treat muscle & joint injuries and chronic pain through red light therapy. Instant pain relief and proven results within 6 weeks time. IMPROVE BLOOD CIRCULATION Revitalize your body with red light therapy. Enhance vitality, stimulate blood circulation, and promote overall well-being for a healthier, invigorated you.

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And it doesn't get much better than that, folks. It really doesn't. Trust me. Seriously, go outside. Have you seen it out there? It's not good. So stay with the podcast. Anyway, guys, he is the CEO of this amazing company.

And I've actually been playing with their product, called Lumaflex, and he's also a competitive athlete. The company is called, as I mentioned before, Lumaflex, and they make some interesting things. John Graham joins us on the show with us today, and he'll be talking to

us about his amazing product and everything else. John Grant Harper, I should say as well, is his full name. He is a certified master trainer, speaker, and fitness professional with 15 years of experience in the fitness industry. He's the founder of John Graham Fitness and renowned golf academy director at Mission Hills. He is a leader in fitness technology and has collaborated on popular video series for home workouts and boxing tutorials. His personal journey through training and competitions exposed him to injuries,

fueling his quest for optimized injury prevention and recovery methods. During his pursuit, he discovered the remarkable benefits of red light therapy or recovering from a knee injury. This led to the creation of Lumaflex, a game-changing, flexible, portable, and waterproof panel that provides convenient and efficient red light therapy for individuals, including athletes. Welcome to the show, John. How are you? Very good. Thank you so much for this. Quite the intro to your show. That was impressive. I enjoyed that. There you go. We throw a different ramble on every time and I just make it up as I

go along. Sometimes it's stupid. Sometimes it's dumb and most times it's kind of half funny. So there you go. Welcome to show. Give us your.com so we can find you on the interwebs, please. That's incredible. Well done. Thank you. That's what we do.

So give us the dot com uh so people can look you guys up on the interwebs uh so yeah just lumaflex.com um so that we're actually we're actually going to be launching a few products the first one that we've launched is the body pro that's the one that you've been using and testing out right now that's sort of like our our flagship um product but we're launching another one called the Essential. And then we're actually going to be going into a much larger device that's going to be sort of almost like a yoga mat that you can hang in the shower. And we're going to call it the Energy Shower. You're going to be able to take it, you wrap it up and, you know,

hang it in your shower, hang it by your desk. You're going to be able to lay on it, allowing for sort of more exposure to red light, you with a much larger larger panel there you go and one of the features of your product is it's the world's first sweat and waterproof red light panel as well that's kind of important yeah not just water resistant but what you know full-on waterproof you can jump into the swimming pool with it you can do you know double down on your. You can jump into the swimming pool with it. You can do, you know, double down on your recovery. You can use, use it in an ice bath. Obviously red light actually has the most feedback as the best, but it's touching your skin. So the panel itself has to not just be sweat resistant because that sweat will build up as you put it on on your but you know we went a step further and we made it uh full-on waterproof there you go and i've been using the product and

it's really helpful at breaking down pain issues and things of that nature uh and all that good stuff so uh and then i like how it works with an app so you can just command the app to communicate with it and set up timing and decide which of the lights you want to use. So what is red light, red light infrared? What are these therapies? Yeah, it's something that a lot of people are calling pseudoscience. It actually doesn't have as much trust as it should. But very simply put, how I always like to explain red and near infrared light is it's something that has been available to us as human beings since the dawn of time,

since we were human beings. Red and near infrared light is available to us when the sun rises and when the sun sets. If you're close to the equator and it isn't a cloudy day, usually you get a beautiful sunrise or sunset where there's that orange color that real sometimes very very dark red that is near an infrared light and when we were cavemen back in you know the early days of the uh of the planet we would wake up when the sun rise and we would get our energy from the light and then we are we would cool down during sunset when and and that was our circadian rhythm. That was how we wake up and go to sleep. But now the way the world is with, you know, we all live in concrete jungles.

We're not, you know, having as much exposure to natural light as we should. Our circadian rhythm is a little bit off. And these sort of old, you know, old sort of biohacking techniques and strategies and treatments are almost forgotten now. But the biohackers and the, you know, the big optimized gurus of the world, they're bringing it back. And it's something that is gaining traction. People are getting interested in it. And you have some big names using it. Very, very well-off athletes people that are um you know very well known in their sports cristiano ronaldo tiger woods like you name it stephan mulberry they all use uh near an infrared light for recovery because they're

obviously playing sport they um recovering and being able to play their sport is very very important so it's it's getting traction and people are getting interested and it's taking off. And I want to be, at Pneumoflex, we really want to be at the forefront of this, especially for the active audience. Whether it be someone young who's trying to make it to the college team or someone in their late 70s,

they still want to hit balls on the driving range, right? There you go. And I mean, even though it's regarded as pseudoscience, it's got an FDA Class 2 certification to it. So you guys have the muscle behind the FDA behind you. But I got familiar with this over the last few years, but I think over the last 10 years, where there's all sorts of different things that you can use to eliminate muscle and joint pain. And basically, you know, you get that tight muscle that clinches the blood flow and causes pain. And if you can break that up and release muscle, it can help with your recovery, healing, revive your muscles. I mean,

I've been using it for pain when I come home from the gym and I'm feeling beat up, especially the next day you put it on a muscle and away you go. Um, and, uh, and, and it works with an app as well. So tell me about your life, your origin story, your hero's journey. How did you get down this road and into this business? Very, very long story. Yeah. I have to try to cut it up, but yeah. Oh, we only have an hour. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. There was a lot of ups and downs. Um, but yeah, I've always tried to stay very competitive, at least, you know, you know, taking training seriously. And I always had a rule when, um, you know, as I was doing, you know, in my fitness journey, I would, I would always do three competitions a year. That was my thing.

It didn't really matter which competitions they were, but I had to challenge myself three times. Sometimes that would be adventure racing. It would be like in CrossFit tournaments. But then I got into boxing. I started fighting and um actually you know when fighting you you know you're sparring and obviously the fight itself you incur a lot of hits to the head i i went in for a checkup because i had a sort of a very severe headache and um the doctor told me that i developed a tumor in my head wow what he said it was was from the hits to the head um that was quite scary

i had to have like an evasive surgery the tumor was almost the size of my thumb and um so that stopped me from boxing and i kind of was looking around for something else to fulfill this three challenges a year goal i've always set for myself. But also during that time, I think playing basketball, even when I was young, playing basketball and then, you know, just being on my feet a lot, obviously doing a lot of impact on my knees, playing different sports and competing. My left knee was really, really had, this was probably my worst injury that I've had. I've had shoulders broken from rugby, obviously a tumor. The one I remember was my knee. And I think it's because you're not able to walk. And what would happen was, is I would sit down and if it was longer for 10 or 15 minutes,

the knee would become so painful. I would have to stretch it out and massage it and like get some heat, heat rub on it or like ice it and try to stop the pain. And I couldn't, I couldn't 10, 15 minutes. I just really couldn't sit down. It would always, it would, it would be better if it was extended, but then that would start to hurt. So I'd have to move around, lubricate the knee. And my wife she's chinese and uh she would she was trying to get me on to red light therapy but she didn't you know it was it wasn't what red light therapy is right now this was still a few years ago and it wasn't a pretty device like you see with lube like it was this ugly like real cumbersome heavy looking lamp with a big red bulb because of the it was just

very old technology right it's just like a bulb it would heat up very hot so she would pull this lamp into the into the room and she was like before bed you have to put it on your knee so i was like okay i thought it was like some chinese feng shui sort of i'll do it just okay just to make you happy. Um, but I remember the bulb would be so hot that I would play this game with my knee where I would try to have it close to get the treatment, but then it would be so hot. I would have to move it away. And it was just doing, you know, but, um, after about a week of her, you know, pushing me to do it every single day, I saw that I wasn't having the pain sitting down. That was sort of the, you know, identifier of the pain was going was that I was able to sit and there was, I was able to sit for a long period of time.

I wouldn't have to stretch or, you know, it wouldn't start hurting. And after about two weeks, it was gone. It was complete. And since then, I've never had this issue. I've been able to take planes. You know, you can sit in, you know, an Uber and it's not something that really, you know, the device that is specific for any kind of active individual who has this sort of lasting long pain that it, that I guess in their mind, they think, oh, I should just deal with this. This is now my life. You know, when actually, if you're giving your cells the energy, if you're giving them mitochondria, the powerhouse of the cells and giving them excess energy, they're able to recover. They're able to heal this pain that, you know, cause they have the extra energy to do it. And this

is sort of something I've seen in the world, even with my dad, my mom, you know, obviously much, much older, they've had aches and pains and knees in their neck and their back that I have seen absolutely cured just with a simple non, you know, non-invasive a hundred percent help, you know, natural remedy. And I, something that's very,

very exciting. And it's not just for me, but for the entire team, we really are motivated by this, by, you know, this, this idea that we're almost in a sense,

curing the world of chronic pain. And we've got a natural non-invasive treatment for everybody, right? There you go. Now, do you get vitamin D? I've started doing this thing where I go sit in the sun every morning for 15 minutes to start those circadian rhythms like you talked about, but also get my vitamin D, which is important for testosterone. Do you get vitamin D from this thing or is it only from the sun?

Yeah, it's funny. Testosterone boosting. Testosterone boosting. So actually, I think it was like a good number of years ago. Maybe I want to say around 10 years ago, maybe a bit less. But Ben Greenfield did a study on near red and infrared light to boost testosterone. Really? It went viral. I think it was on Men's Health or something.

And yeah, red and near infrared light does naturally boost testosterone levels. Of course, the Lumaflex device, you have to put it in that area, right? Oh, you do? But yeah, I've told this to a lot of athletes and obviously people that are endorsing it. What do I do with it? And I'm like, know there's i know there's some people on the internet that actually sun uh different parts of that thing me i just go sit in the sun and you know do the vitality thing but i don't think i'm going to be uh i don't know i would do whatever you want people it's your life i don't know yeah

but uh there you go so how do you get how do you get started this product? What's the idea of Genesis? Why is it built the way it is? You know, you've got the first product that's waterproof. That's, that's obviously important because, you know, I'm a sweaty, greasy man, especially after a workout. Um, and I smell bad too. If you can come up with something for that, it'd be great. Um, that's what I've been told on Tinder all the time. But, you know, what is the promote? Why did you make it the way that you made it in the design that you use as your first product to launch? Yeah, I think portability was the key driver for how over two years of developing this product since obviously the first drawings were made but portability was key because um you know when red light therapy first hit the market it was usually these very large

uh mirror like heavy panels that you would buy for your home right you would stick them up and they would they would you would stand in front of it like you were doing you were doing um it's like a tanning salon sort of experience right not very portable not very um it's something that you would just have at your home so portability was a big thing when we were designing it it needs to be able to be thrown into your gym bag and use on the go you could you should be able to take it on planes without any trouble right um so portability obviously was very, very key. And durability as well,

because obviously if you're carrying it around a lot and it drops, if it breaks, well, what do you do now? You got, it has to be durable. So this panel is actually silicone technology. It's the same technology that outlines airplanes and very flexible. Using silicone allows for flexibility very very important with with light therapy because it can wrap around joints or muscles and this maximizes the amount of

treatment to that affected area right so because light traveling in a straight line if you are using some sort of flat very strong uh mirror device some of the light will just be bouncing off you you won't actually get much focus of that light as if it were to wrap around that affected area. So flexibility was a key thing, but obviously coming back to it, it was mainly portable. It had to be portable. People that train, that exercise athletes, young and old, if you're on the golf course, you're going to your kid's soccer practice. You know, if you're in the gym, you have your gym bag, right? It needs to be one of those things you just throw into your gym bag, easy to charge and easy to use. So that was kind of the key thing with it was making it more and more portable, making it obviously portable means it has to be

durable. And then silicone, if we go a step further, now it can be waterproof. Now, we just had to make sure that, you know, the rivets in it and these little areas were all very tight to allow it to be fully waterproof. But, yeah, I think we did a very, very good job. And it's a good stepping stone for the products portability feature, you know, because red light therapy being having to drive to a salon, pay a fee, and then use it, use your red light therapy, and then, you know, drive back home or having something that is always in the house. It, we see mainstream, you know, if we want to be the ones that take that take red light therapy mainstream, we have to really make sure everything's portable, that you can take it with you anywhere you go,

and you can have your red light therapy on a daily basis, which is where red light therapy shows the amazing feedback is with daily use, right? We want to encourage people to use it every single day. Yeah, I've been loving it. I'm almost using it every single day with some of the pains that I have. I'm 55, man. Everything hurts.

You just wake up, and it's like spin the wheel lottery hey what wants to hurt today or what's not working today and my kidneys you know hey hey fuck you man we're over here uh and uh stuff like that but portability it comes with a nice uh protective case as well so you can easily transfer it and protect it but you're right it's it's kind of it's got that rubbery thing around it so it's it's really hard you know, drop on anything hard. It'd have to land just perfectly on something. And then it comes with straps so that you can strap it to all different ways across your body. You know, whether you want to go around like a belt sort of thing or you want to go over the shoulder for a chest or shoulder rub.

That's usually where I'm hurting after arm days up in that shoulders and sometimes in sometimes in the breastplate where you've been doing those push-ups and stuff. That really helps get in there. That's it. Yeah. We've got a long strap. We've got a long strap, and then we also have a short strap. So the short strap, obviously, for the smaller, you know, your arms, your legs, right? And then the long strap, you can literally just wrap it around and put it on your chest, your back.

I've got, I've done a few videos showing people how to, you know, maximize the use using the straps in the different areas. But usually it's quite intuitive. You know, you've got these handles on the side, these handles, we've done tests like with over a hundred kgs worth of pressure pushing on these handles so they don't break um and you can wrap it like obviously red uh near red and infrared has been known to support um hair growth right really yeah so it's it's funny i cut me and some of the of my mates we'll actually like stick it on our head every every morning you know and um forehead too

for cognitive energy and focus it really yeah like you you could research a phd scientist she's actually a very good friend of mine she's um her name is sarah turner and her red light product just focuses on the brain the brain and the gut and this connection through the vagus bank you know and how your cognitive energy like before we got to get pumped up for work right got to get pumped up for going onto the computer so she has a device that focuses just on the forehead and then she has a device just for the gut um really the same thing i just use it you know i joke around with her a lot i just it just looks ridiculous having this luma flex on your forehead. Not Miss America anymore.

But so, I mean, that was the other question I had for you. And that makes sense to be able to put on the front temple. You know, one of the problems I have when I had really bad ADHD, probably still do. And one of the problems is your frontal lobes in your brain are so overstressed and overactualized. It's just jamming everything up and then there's a some pressure points in here that man if you hit the right one i'll probably fall over um you know we wear all this pressure like right here in our in our brows uh is there any place you shouldn't put it over like is it okay to put over my heart it's i think we've established it's okay to put on

the old brino yes yes anywhere absolutely i mean the only the only conditions that um will arise as to where you should be cautious about using red light therapy is if you have a skin a skin issue okay it's actually a skin problem right and i think you know you know some people are very sensitive to sunlight um and they get develop rashes or or sort of an allergic reaction to sunlight. Those sorts of conditions, those skin conditions, you should consult a doctor before looking at red nerve red light. There you go. It's got a USB-C charging port.

Thank you. Thank you for God for doing that. I still get products nowadays that we review that have the old style, and I'm like, are you serious? It's 2023. So thanks for putting USB-C. It's so annoying when people do that. So it's rechargeable

lithium-ion battery. Full charge can take up to four hours. It says here recommended use up to four times a day. Is it bad if I use it more than four times a day? No, I mean, you can't really overdose on light, right? Where I sort of, you know, where it can be four times a day depends on the kind of person that you are, right? If you're an athlete, you want to wake up, you want to get your boost for the day um then you're probably going to do it before you work out you're going to do like a some

especially on the areas that you're going to be training like you were mentioning you're sort of doing those those bro splits right where you train like chest or back so it has been clinically proven to boost energy you know to boost performance so i should do this on a pre-workout then even a pure pre-workout yeah wow yeah i didn't think about that words for recovery and then people do it also like it was maybe on their stomach before bed so you it does have a place around four times a day but you know i do i i i the joke in the company is like, I should be glowing because I'm always using red light. Well, I mean, that's a great testament. Now, in the app, there's two different settings.

There's one for just, I think, red light, and then there's red light infrared. What's the differentiation between those two? Yeah, that's the depth at which the light, the wavelength goes into your body. So red light is more for skin, right? It's like healing wounds. It's been a proven remedy for skin issues, for wound healing.

So like in some hospitals in the world, when you are in a serious car accident, or you had a very nasty fall or you're cut or something, you will usually be prescribed some sort of red light therapy to help heal that skin, heal the wound on the skin. But then near infrared actually goes down to your bones and to your joints.

So that's why it gets a lot of benefit to chronic pain you know really back pain you know my dad it was always his neck he'd be like oh john you know i slept wrong on my neck again it was that was something you know i would always hear is like that you know as you're getting older like like you said yourself you had these pains that you're just like man this is i don't know where this came from back when I was young and playing sports or, you know, I was messing around, but it's stuck with me now. And that, that's where, you know, near infrared, it can actually go very, very deep into your, into your body. Right. And actually help those, those little aches and pains that, that so many people are dealing with. It's amazing. There you go. Now it's just like most

red infrared light. You don't want to make sure you're looking directly into it when it's amazing there you go now it's just like most red infrared light you don't want to make sure you're looking directly into it when it's on it's there are a lot of red and near infrared devices specifically to help with eye conditions so that's another whole industry where where actually a lot of devices are are made and are used to help with eye conditions help with bad eyes so it doesn't affect it doesn't affect to look at that it doesn't affect your your eyes okay are made and are used to help with eye conditions, help with bad eyes. So it doesn't affect, it doesn't affect, to look at that,

it doesn't affect your eyes. You can get like a bit of that eye, that funny, that eye blur afterwards. You know, some people don't like that, so they keep their eyes shut. And you can keep your eyes shut because obviously the light will still go through your eyelids.

Oh, really? Benefits of, of the healing of your eyes and this sort of area without actually having to look directly into the light. I know that sometimes some of those cat things, they say, you know, the cat little infrared things, you know, that don't look at the light or something. Yeah.

And in the movie Poltergeist, you know, don't go to the light carrying in. So there you go. Well, that's good togeist, you know, don't go light carrying. So there you go. Well, that's good to know because, you know, sometimes I get a lot of eye pain and stuff. You know, you get stressed and, you know, you're just wearing all the stress right here sometimes. Sometimes it's when I watch the news, you know, I get that eye pain where I'm like, oh, geez. Or other times it's like when I don't take the spoon out of my coffee and you know we all get that right that's an old joke it's an old joke

it's an old joke guy goes to the doctor and says hey doc every time I drink coffee my eyes hurt and he's like can you try taking the spoon out of your coffee you're poking your eye that's an old ass joke I feel like Jackie Marley telling old jokes from the 70s You're poking your eye at that. That's an old-ass joke.

There you go. I feel like Jackie Marley and Lee. I'm telling old jokes from the 70s. So there you go. So what have we talked about in your product that people need to know and why it's important? We know it's FDA-approved. Why don't we talk some of the safety about it? Class 2.

We're a Class 2 FDA-cleared product. I mean, so you've got, like, two groups of people, you've got the people that know about red and infrared light. They know about it. They're turned on by it. I know some people that are so into it. They buy every product. They're like, they're like those sneaker collector people, you know, that just can't buy everything.

Right. It's a cult. And then, yeah, for them, it's just about the actual hardware itself, about the device itself. the device itself they're like oh like this because i can use this for this part of my life and i have this product for this part like um but then there are people that don't know anything about red light therapy right so they're like why would i start buying i need to know what this is all about mlm what am i what's going on yeah Yeah. Is this Tom Cruise along this? They always think

like, the phrase I always hear is like, I don't trust these new age devices. Yeah. Actually, I always sound like, well, actually, Red and Yellow and Red at night is not anything new. It's really old, actually. It's the time right and the sun sun's been around for a while it's

just like it's yeah because you don't want to over exaggerate it you know and start throwing a bunch of science out there because people are just like ah this is like that guy that eats raw meat or that dude that you know has mushroom pills like i don don't, and you, and you just want to basically say like, no, it's, it's very simple. It's light. It's the sun plants need it. Animals need it. Like we all need it's part. It's what God gave us right on this planet. What is what help helps us grow as human beings and get the most out of life. So, um, when I was then going into the study of it there's thousands and thousands of clinically approved studies about near red and red light yeah so there are a lot of benefits to other spectrums of light and usually when you buy a device especially in beauty you know with those

masks like my wife has got like a few of these these red light masks they're huge on tiktok now they look really funny, like Halloween masks. Yeah. It's something that kind of has gone viral, right? You have the husband, he's taking the video of his wife

and his wife's in the bed, like, and they're like, ah! That's OnlyFans. Yeah. But those particular masks, they have not just red and near and fred.

They have the red and near and fred for the FDA approval, but they have a lot of other lights. They have blue light, the green light, like they have all those. And there's actually thousands of studies out there showing the benefits of all the other lights as well. But where the FDA put the stamp of approval is just in the red and near infrared. So that's kind of how it works. That's what's been proven, clinically proven that this works. Heals wounds, de-stresses, grows hair, you know, like all of this. That's where the clinical studies have given their stamp.

You know, so you've got an FDA approval on those areas. But don't be scared to try other light therapy products that have red and near infrared in them, but they have other spectrums because there's a lot of benefit there. There you go. FDA approval is coming to those very, very soon. It just takes a bit of time,

right? I don't have too much problem. We're going to grow in here, but I've been, I've been trying to get one of those epic, uh, Viking sort of beards going here and about halfway. And,

uh, uh, and so maybe I'll just use it on that to see if I can get this thing real faster. Cause I want to project. I want a project I want done. I want to have one of those beards that looks like it could assault you just by its own self. That's it. People will see it and be like, that beard has its own weaponization.

Yeah, I saw the beard. And something that my wife, she's like, no, you've got to shave, right? Because she doesn't like scratchy, right? Yeah. But every time I see a guy with a beard, I'm like, oh, I love that beard. It's a good man beard. Yeah, I've just reached that point where I just don't give a fuck anymore. And I don't know. It's a real masculine sort of thing.

I've been doing lots of different things, eating right, taking about estrogenics and different chemicals away from me, foods, trying to do everything I can at 55 to boost my testosterone without going in and doing that whole shot thing. Because once you get on it, you're pretty much for life committed to it. You can't go back off. And I don't like needles anyway. I'm against needles. You've got a few people that are recognized in your crew. There's the arm wrestling whisperer. I recognize him from TikTok. I see his stuff on TikTok all the time.

You've got a few other guys that I think I've seen on TikTok and places. I've been using it, and I love the product. I understand that my father got into new age therapies for a lot of different things back in the day and uh you know i drink the i drink the water that's supposed to increase your uh or lower your uh account i forget what it is you know i'm more i'm in my dad got me into all the things and so i've been i've known about the product and he used to use a lot of different devices and so i've loved it i love how it'll it, because it's flexible, like the way he designed it, it'll wrap around the shoulder, your arm, a leg, you know, I guess it'll wrap

around my head now. Um, you know, it's, it's really easy to use and then you've got the straps, you can just kind of angle it to wherever. And so it's great to get at those places. Sometimes I'll just lay and maybe my side's hurting or something i'll just kind of lay in my bed on my side and put it there and hold it down with a pillow and and uh yeah it's great and then you can travel with it like you said so if you're an athlete like yourself who's on the road or touring you know doing events and things like that you can do that as well sometimes you know i mean i athlete, clearly, obviously we've all seen this for 15 years. Um, but sometimes, you know, just traveling is, is hard on you. You know, you sit in some

shitty airline seat that I don't know, is made for a midget. And, uh, you know, I'm six two and, you know, I've got the middle backseat jamming in the middle of my back. And, and, uh, then I have, you know, I weigh a few pounds more than the average person because i don't know i'm really good looking and uh you know you do the travel thing and sometimes when i travel you know i'll work i'll work events where i'm walking a lot my feet hurt my legs hurt my brain hurts everything hurts it's 50 i'm 55 people did i mention that and uh 55 is the callback joke of the show who knew um and and just being able to have that maybe in a hotel room i'm just looking forward to have um so that i can recover because sometimes i just go back to my hotel room and curl up in obon

you know it used to be it used to be the vodka was the thing that made the pain go away, but I can't do that anymore. So any final thoughts and tease out, tell people where to pick up the dip and order it. Final pitch out as we go out. Yeah, just on lumaflex.com. Obviously that's where we're going to be putting all our products. And if you hit me up on IG, John Graham Fitness,

on my Instagram, if anyone hits me up, I'll give you a discount code. I'll give you a $20 off discount code. Damn, that's awesome, man. That's awesome. There you go. We'll have to put that on the website

so people can check that out. I know that there's a discount code on the website if people go to it. But yeah, I've been loving the product. and and yeah you just sit there for 10 minutes sometimes i'm in so much pain i do two rounds for 20 and it it saves me man and and a long time ago i went to this chiropractor i was always going to this chiropractor and and i was like and he would crack me up and as soon as i would get done being cracked by the chiropractor i'd be like oh god relief and i'll go back in my car and you could feel the muscle just go and throw my back

out and i remember i i went back to him one day i literally turned the car around and went back to him i go dude i keep i come have you crack me and and i just within five ten minutes i'm i'm i'm breaking up again and help me please for the love of god i can't go on this way and he says well i'll tell you something but the problem is i'll probably never see you again as a customer and i'm like okay what and he goes let me explain what's going on it's your muscles you know with a chiropractor, I'm, I'm adjusting your bones, but really your muscles are the problem. And you've, you've got them so tense that even when I crack you there and, and, you know, you've been at a joint sometimes for a few days that you're just going right back to them. And the problem is your muscles. He goes, so I'll

tell you what, what you have is the muscle. The reason you're in pain is because the muscle is gripping so hard that it's keeping the blood flow from going through. And he goes, so here's what I want you to do. This will help you. And I'll probably never see you again, but go get a tennis ball and stand up against the wall and find the muscle that hurts and just really kind of push up against it. And he goes, it's going to hurt like hell probably. But if you push up against it, what will happen is the pressure will get the blood flow to start going through there and the muscle will pop and release.

And then you get that blood flow and then the pain goes away. And so ever since, you know what you know what i never once saw him again because i anytime i got back pain and i realized the problem wasn't my bones with my chiropractor it was my muscles and that's when i first discovered the same technology you guys are using there where the infrared is using the is getting that muscle to unlock so the blood flow can go through and then when you got blood flow you know you can stay alive that's it yeah exactly you're you're we're made up of cells and inside the cell is the mitochondria the powerhouse of the cell so basically what red and near infrared light does

is it doesn't heal you it gives your cells energy to heal themselves so that could be um recovery it could be pain relief it can be blood circulation like you said it could be energy it can be growth whatever the job of that cell is whatever it needs to do that's that you're giving it energy to do its job that's kind of all i explain it simply like there's people like does it how does this heal you i'm like well actually it doesn't heal you it gives your body the energy to heal itself because that's what it sells to we if we give the energy that sells the energy they can they can do their job they can heal themselves there you go i love it yeah good stuff uh well thank you very much for coming on john we really appreciate it thank you i mean this was it was a great conversation. I'm really, I'm so thankful that you, you know, I have this platform to be able to share.

Thank you. Yeah. Many, many thanks. Yeah. And, and I'm glad you guys sent me a unit so I can try it out. I'll be excited to see what else you guys have coming up and we'll probably be doing a full review on the Chris Voss show. If you guys want to follow it up, it might make the Christmas list because I've loved

the product. And at 55, I'm just, I'm going to the gym, beat myself up and I need all the recovery help I can get. I'm really being in recovery. And I think that's, that's one of the things that I think a lot of people make a mistake when they start going to the gym is they don't worry about recovery. They don't worry about taking the right protein. They don't worry about taking right, you know, different things to, to help them recover well. And, and, and of course, you know, I, I hit the massage, you know, there's the leg things that you can have that squeeze your legs. There's, there's all sorts of different massage things for your muscles and stuff. And this is one of those things and being able to recover that from, from working out makes all the difference because then you're just not

always going like, I just go to the gym and I'm just assault myself. And I just feel battered when I'm done. Like, how is this fun at all? And then you see, and then you see the recoveries because your body's like, Hey, I feel good now. And you know, you just feel, you just feel better overall, I'm sure from health. So thank you very much, John, for coming on the show. Everyone check it out, go to lumaflex.com. And I highly recommend it. I've been using it for about a month or two now. I'm not sure if I can live without it.

If you ask for it back, John, I'm not giving it back. So that's just how it's going to have to be. I'll send you another one. I love it. I love it. I've been telling my mom because my mom's 80. And I'm like, just tell me when you're hurting. I'll bring it over and you can check it out and stuff

it's so wonderful my sister's got MS we probably should try and figure out how to use it on her for when she's having some of her issues but thank you very much for coming on thanks to my audience for tuning in go to goodreads.com 4chesschrisfuss linkedin.com 4chesschrisfuss youtube.com 4chesschrisfuss

and all those crazy places on the internet thanks for being here folks we certainly appreciate you and be good to each other stay safe we'll see you next time and that should have us out john