The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Katie Wrigley, Transformational Coach & Cognomovement Practitioner on Healing Trauma

Episode Date: November 9, 2023

Katie Wrigley, Transformational Coach & Cognomovement Practitioner on Healing Trauma Katiewrigley.com/chrisvoss Show Notes About The Guest(s): Katie Wrigley is a transformational coach and a cognitive movement practitioner. She specializes in helping clients overcome trauma and chronic pain using principles from cognitive movement. Katie has personal experience with debilitating pain and trauma, which led her to develop her unique method for fast relief and healing. Summary: Katie Wrigley is a transformational coach and cognitive movement practitioner who helps clients overcome trauma and chronic pain. Cognitive movement uses a ball and specific body and eye movements to shift energy and create new neural pathways in the brain. This method allows for faster and easier healing from chronic conditions. Katie's approach is rooted in the understanding that pain and trauma are stored in the body and can be released through targeted movement and emotional processing. She works with clients virtually and in person, tailoring her sessions to each individual's needs. Key Takeaways: Cognitive movement uses a ball and specific body and eye movements to shift energy and create new neural pathways in the brain. Pain and trauma are stored in the body and can be released through targeted movement and emotional processing. Cognitive movement can provide fast relief from symptoms of chronic conditions and help clients transform their trauma and pain. Katie works with clients virtually and in person, tailoring her sessions to each individual's needs. Quotes: "We start to shift energy low to high and we go deep into the neurology." - Katie Wrigley "The body can manifest pain, chronic pain, unrelenting fibromyalgia, all of those other things... until those emotions are felt, they're dealt with, the body knows you're listening." - Katie Wrigley Biography After running from herself until she reached her early 40s, using anything she could find to numb out, including losing herself in a demanding career in Corporate for over 20 years, Katie found herself disabled in her early 40s, after several years of increasingly severe chronic pain. Traditional medicine continued to fail her as diagnoses piled up, including: ✨Fibromyalgia ✨Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS) ✨Slipped and bulging discs ✨Unrelenting chronic nerve pain and increasing weakness in her limbs Enough was enough. Katie started making changes in her life over the next couple of years, but hadn’t yet resolved the unrelenting nerve pain down her legs. While preparing for back surgery in 2020, Katie was introduced to Cognomovement, a way to access the subconscious mind through the physical body. Cognomovement helped Katie put an end to her decades of chronic pain. Katie immediately immersed herself in Cognomovement, both to earn her practionership, as well as exploring classes on a personal level to see what else within her life could be improved. She never had back surgery, and Cognomovement has transformed her life, as well as the lives of others. Katie is now a Level 2 Cognomovement practitioner.

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Go to chrisfossfacebook.com. course uh refer the family show to your uh everybody you know uh go to goodreads.com fortune's christmas linkedin.com for says christmas youtube.com fortune's christmas and christmas one on the tickety-tockety as well uh we have amazing young lady on the show today she's gonna be talking to us about her journey and everything that went into it and all that good stuff. Let's take a look at that. It's Katie Wrigley. She is a transformational coach. How do I pronounce this correctly, Katie? A Cogno Movement? You got it. Yep. Perfect. Cogno Movement Practitioner. This is why we do the show, so we can learn new stuff every day. And she's going to be talking about all the stuff that she does and how she does it. She is a transformational coach who uses the Cognomovement within her coaching sessions to help her clients transform their trauma and pain.

After experiencing her own debilitating pain levels, which rendered her disabled in 2018, she knows firsthand how limiting trauma and pain can be. So she created a system to make it faster and easier to change her state of pain and release the trauma. Using principles taught to her by her wellness coach, coupled with the Cognomove movement and extensive research around how pain is created in the body she's now developed a unique method that allows fast relief from symptoms of chronic conditions by tapping into the nervous system through the physical body welcome to the show katie how are you i'm doing well chris thank you so much for having me oh thank you for coming give us your dot coms where do you want people to find you on the interwebs? KatieRigley.com. There you go. So Katie, give us a 30,000 overview of what

this Cognomovement is. We're learning new words today and how you apply it and how you do your work. So Cognomovement uses this ball for those who are watching and not just listening. For those listening, it looks like a psychedelic looking soccer ball. It is purposely designed though. So the brain, the left side of the brain lights up at these complex shapes and the bright colors. The right side lights up and activates because it's a 3D object. So through a bunch of body movements and eye movements, we start to shift energy low to high and we go deep into the neurology. And as we're doing that, because of the way we're moving and a bunch of the different principles that are within cognitive movement, there's a lot of NLP, EFT, there's EMDR. I've heard it called EMDR and crack for people who have done both.

It uses those principles plus its own modality and its own uniqueness on top of that. And we actually activate all three learning centers in the body, auditory, visual and kinesthetic. So what this means is as we're creating a new neural pathway, which happens anytime we're learning something new, the body can automatically reorganize itself under that new neural pathway much faster and easier and pretty much just goes. It's, it's incredible what can happen just in one session. That is pretty freaking awesome. And so people can, you know, we talk a lot about, we talk a lot about trauma on the show, childhood trauma. There seems to be a lot of it. There's,

you know, different things like there's different things like PTSD and all sorts of other things that can happen to people that can traumatize them. And so by using that, that you can, you can help people maybe overcome it better, faster, et cetera. Yep, absolutely. So I was introduced to cognitive movement when I was awaiting neurosurgery on my back. I never actually had to have that surgery. And I was actually told I was going to need three surgeries total. I haven't had any of them and I'm able to sleep again. I'm able to have a normal functioning life. My relationships look better. So I'm proof of how well this works. And I have several clients who are proof as well.

And then the creators, of course, Bill McKenna and Liz Larson, the things that they're doing at their level are just, it's nothing short of miracles. It's absolutely blows my mind on a daily basis. Chris, like what can happen from a psychedelic looking soccer ball when utilized properly? It almost reminds me of the, what was that ball from the, uh, uh, Mel or the Tom Hanks movie. The Wilson. It's like a Wilson ball.

There you go. So what, uh, what got you into this realm? Tell us a little about your journey and, uh, and what got you into coaching for this? So I was in corporate for 24 some odd years. And somewhere in there, I got introduced to this

incredible little boy who had a brain tumor. I was a skydiver at the time, long story short, we were our drop zone became the first drop zone to legally keyword, get the kid into the air without the Make-A-Wish Foundation. And that process made me realize like, and I was in cybersecurity when I was in corporate, great, I can clean out someone's inbox. But I wasn't touching people deeply. And I don't mean that in a perverted way. But I wasn't touching people deeply enough to feel like that was a fulfilling enough job for me. So I started to look into coaching. And then through my own life experience wound up specializing in pain and trauma as I got in my own mess that I had created in my own life series of really bad decisions that culminated over years. And actually it all stemmed from an early childhood trauma and my denial of that trauma for 40 years.

So I had a hell of a mess to clean up by the time I started facing it. So I learned a lot fast and now I can turn around and I can help other people who have gotten themselves into similar situations to be able to get out a lot faster as well. That's definitely key. That's definitely key. So when, when trauma releases, does it take a lot of sessions? Does it, is it, is it something where people need to use the ball, buy the ball, and utilize it? It depends.

So we can shift a lot in one session. If you have a longstanding trauma, and I work with first responders, I work with veterans, there's going to be layers when you're talking about people who are in chronic stress, chronic traumatic situations. The stats that first responders go through are just off the hook. It's like 500 to a thousand traumatic events just in their career. That doesn't count what happens in their personal life. So when you get into a situation like that, we're not going to wipe that out in

one session. So we tend to take it at whatever pace that person wants to go, depending on what their nervous system can handle. And I work from there, but it is usually more than one session. I do teach people how to do this on their own. I have a YouTube channel so they can do many sessions when I can't have a session with them. So I don't want people to think they need me forever. They only need me for a temporary amount of time. And then they can do this on their own to continue to maintain their wellness

and their health going forth without my interference. There you go. It's something that people suffer from. And you say it helps with fibromyalgia, CRPS, complex regional pain syndrome, slipped and bouldering discs, and unrelenting chronic nerve pain and weakness in limbs. So all these different things. I never heard of complex regional pain syndrome, CRPS. Tell us about that and I guess how trauma turns into pain in the body and translates into pain in the body. That's a good question.

So I want to be clear with my wording. It's symptoms of fibromyalgia, symptoms of CRPS. There's very specific guidelines on how to mention that from my own perspective on there so complex regional pain syndrome i was diagnosed with that myself after a knee replacement and what it basically means is that one limb or your whole body depending on how severe it is has become hyper reactive to pain it changes colors it gets to a point where it can't even really handle touch. Like there was one point where if someone had grabbed me too hard, like I would be bruised

and they hadn't actually impacted me all that much in there. The body is always talking and it's always giving us messages. So one of the biggest mindset shifts that we can do is to start to look at pain, not as punishment, not as the end game, not as something you have to put up with, but as messages from your body. So all of those events that we experience, only 10% of the brain is actually conscious. The other 90% is below the surface. So until you feel all that crap that's under the surface, your body can manifest that in an experience of physical pain. It can manifest it in an autoimmune disease.

It can manifest it in some other kind of chronic condition. And so until those emotions are felt, they're dealt with, the body knows you're listening and the subconscious trusts you enough to let go of the pain signal, it can come up as pain, chronic pain, unrelenting fibromyalgia, all of those other things in there that can be incredibly difficult to live with day to day. Definitely. You know, it's interesting how the pain translates into the, or trauma and mental issues translate into the body. And like you said, using it as a signal for, hey, something's maybe wrong. A lot of times, we've talked about this on the show, a lot of times doctors kind of treat the pain part and they just go, oh, here's take two aspirin and fix me and call me in the morning. And while that may take care of the immediate pain, or I think a lot of

aspirin just basically turns off your receptors to where you're just not feeling it anymore. Correct me if I'm wrong, but basically, you know, the pain's still there. And until you fix the underlying issue that's causing the pain, you know, it's kind of like if you keep stepping on a nail, you know, sure you can take two aspirin, but if you keep stepping on the nail, you nail, you're still going to have a problem. You've got to quit stepping on the nail or whatever is creating the pain in your body in a crude sort of illustration there. That's a really great analogy, actually. I just made it up.

It's a pretty good one. And you're right. And so when we take something like Advil or Tylenol or something like that, we're not actually treating it like, yes, there could be an anti-inflammatory effect temporarily. There's some data that supports that every time we take something like that, we actually delay the body's own natural healing by about 50%. I don't know those sources off the top of my head, but I've come across that in my research in there. And you're right. It's getting to that root issue of what's in there. That's where we dissolve it for good. Like, it would have been really easy

for me to say I was just a bad skydiver because I was that was the short story. But things would have lined up differently. And if it had only been physical, then all of the things that I was doing to fix it physically would have worked versus nothing working and running out of options. And then me going, okay, this sucks. I'm looking down a life of disability. I don't have very much energy. This is not going to scale for another 30, 40 years. I have to figure something else out. And thank God I found a coach that was very, just absolutely incredible.

And one of the first things she did was plant a seed that we all have what we need within ourselves already to heal. It's just a matter of learning how to tap into it and going that course. And it takes longer to go that course than it does to take some Advil, but you're going to get longer healing when you're willing to start to learn to talk to your body, understand the messages it's giving you, and release those pain signals. Learning to listen to your body as opposed to just kind of trying to remedy or kind of medicate the results you're getting can probably make all the difference in your life.

When you say it's fast for cognitive movement, what's that in comparison to? Like maybe just going to see a therapist and being like, who hurt you? When did your mom love you enough? Well, it's faster than any other modality I've heard of so far. That doesn't mean something else may not do that. But this goes deeper than anything else I know. We're going directly into the neurology. Typically someone is focusing on a physical sensation and they can

unravel it pretty quickly. So I've used EFT as a modality. I've had faster response with cognitive movement. I've done talk. I did talk therapy for 13 years. Oh, wow. That did very, very little other than teach me how to tell stories really well. It didn't touch anything. It was once I got into the coaching side, once I got into cognitive movement, then I started to move the stuff I went to therapy for for 13 years. So it's at any time that you're going deep into the body and you're talking to the body, it's going to be faster than sitting there with talk therapy. And a lot of talk therapy, depending on the style, can actually keep the person stuck in the trauma.

And so every time they go in there, whenever you're telling a story again, your brain goes back into it like you're in it right now. So that can continue to re-trigger you. If you don't have a therapist that knows how to move you forward, who's not trauma informed, you could wind up stuck there and just inadvertently re-traumatizing yourself week after week, every time you see this therapist. And that's where things like EMDR started to come from. That's where things like cognitive movement started to come out of as well is

finding other ways to be able to break that part with different like bilateral movements different pieces like that that we incorporate in their movement is a huge way that we have available to all of us to be able to get trauma out of the body yeah it's really wild how um you know i've even seen people that uh if they have sadness um where a child dies and they go into massive depression and they die of cancer three to six months later. And it's interesting how we can take stuff and turn it into sickness in our body and have an effect and store it there, I guess. Or it really comes down to it. Absolutely.

And I actually worked with a father who had unfortunately lost a young child in a fluke accident and had the honor of being able to help him smile again and experience joy again and be able to reconnect with his daughter that was still alive and his wife again so that was incredible to get to have that experience. Not that he had, it was awful what he went through, but to be able to be a part of facilitating someone being able to experience joy again, I think that's one of the clients that I'm the most proud of being a part of because it made such a huge impact in his life. And it was, like I said, such an honor to be able to be that person to help him move forward from that horrible, horrible accident.

There you go. You know, you see so many people that have some of these ailments. And it's interesting to know that there's pain stored in the body, complex regional pain syndrome. So I guess people just kind of store this wherever, I don't know, it remedies itself or it finds itself, I guess. What makes chronic pain so complex? Why is it complex? Because it's not just the physical. There's going to be emotional pieces in there too. So the way that pain is created, we have receptors all over our body and it's coming up to the brain. And so that path between where the receptors are reporting pain in that brain, that starts to get kind of worn down.

So it actually impacts the gray matter in your brain and you lose 11% of the gray matter when you've been in pain. And chronic pain is defined as unrelenting for three to six months. So you've been in pain for a decade. You've probably lost 11% of the gray matter in your head. That's going to equate to 10 to 20 years of aging. Wow. So there's, you've got the subconscious mind, you've got the unconscious mind. It takes a while for the subconscious mind to trust that it can let go of that pain signal.

Like I have one client whose subconscious mind doesn't trust her to be healthy yet. Wow. I have one client whose subconscious mind doesn't trust her to be healthy yet. And so anytime she starts a new treatment, two to three days later, her body doubles down and levels her again. And so she's found what works for her is a mix of homeopathy and cognitive movement. And I've created a couple of videos, especially for her, that she uses as a mantra. And she had reported back that it was starting to help her feel like herself again, after some of the things that she's experienced. And there's, and it's because of that emotional component in there and traditional medicine or modern medicine doesn't really touch on that. It's the, here are the pharmaceuticals and here, why don't we throw

in an antidepressant so that you feel better mentally? Because when your mood goes up, your pain will go down there. I understand why they do that. But we're still just cranking it up pharmaceutically, we're not getting to the root and having that person actually feel better through natural means like time in the sun, like taking healthier supplements, like walking in nature, if they're able to walk, little things like that can really give a big boost. Watching comedy, watching your podcast is going to help people actually start to feel better when they're laughing because it's going to be inducing all these hormones in their head. Yeah.

Give us something to laugh at because otherwise the rest of the show is just painful to watch. If you watch the YouTube version of me, I'm just kidding. I'm not that painful to watch. I agree. I love your show. I'm not that painful to watch. I agree. I love your show. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Flattery will get you.

So this is really interesting. We've talked a lot about trauma over the years, PTSD, people storing their issues. shoes um yeah have you found that using the ball and in in this cognitive uh movement sort of way um that you you can um like people you know some people have uh kind of hidden trauma like maybe they've blocked out stuff from childhood and stuff like that in fact we had someone on who was talking about trauma recently and they said one of the reasons people bury their trauma or hide it or kind of mask it from their memory is their body can't deal with it at that time and place. And then when they reach an age to where they can deal with it again or they're kind of adult enough and their memory or their brain or whoever's in charge there says, hey, I think you can handle this now. Why don't you try this on for size? And it

brings back those kind of repressed memories. Do you find that maybe this sort of modality helps with that? It helps to find things for sure. So I actually finally faced my trauma in a psychedelic ceremony, like a year and a half or so before I was introduced to cognitive movement, but I have continued to find pieces of it that I had forgotten with the ball. So there's, there's with the eye movement piece, like we're really cranking those eyes and positions, we literally never have them in. And that's accessing place cells in the brain that are storing all these memories that are connected to these sensations in your body. So your subconscious has recorded every single thing that has happened to you from the time that you were conscious in your mother's womb up until today. Wow.

You're only conscious of 10%. Even the things that you do every day, they are led by these patterns. A lot of times that happened to us as a kid. Something as innocuous as your sibling gets a popsicle and you didn't can actually read into I'm not lovable enough and set off a slew of bad decisions in your dating life. It can be that small. And we have no way to remember that. We aren't just going to sit there and be like, okay, what happened to me when I was six? And then you review the year six without any help to walk you through that and help connect it. you're not just going to go back to the age six and walk through that timeline consciously none of us have that ability to do

that unless you get a time machine right right yeah if we had a time machine of course but we never know how these patterns are going to show up and it's only once we get into the pattern which is what we're looking at with cognitive movementitive Movement, it's like, oh, that's where that came from. And then now it's like, okay, do I want to keep this or do I want to get rid of it? And most of the time we want to get rid of it. It's amazing. We're so resilient as beings that we and it's never conscious and it's usually not rational or logical these patterns either like no one actually wants to continue to get in their own way to find a life partner no one consciously

wants to do that that's coming from something that's making you take actions that's going to prevent that from being something you have in your life there you go uh yeah it it's uh it it i'm just identifying this stuff and unburying it and this explains kind of why people are um are stuck in what would you call it they're stuck in therapy for years you're like you've been in therapy for like 10 years um do you uh you know when are you going to get out right right right people like when are like, when do you get out of there? Is there a time where you're over it? And this kind of tells what people can do. So when people work with you, how do you help them? How do people reach out to you and onboard with you and go through the process, I guess.

So I like to have a call first. So I do 45 minute virtual chats and get very clear on what are the biggest problems right now? How big of a problem is it for that person? Really spend a lot of time listening. What are they aware of? What are they not aware of? I can pick up on a lot on that call, figure out like what are their energy levels? You know, everybody's nervous system is going to be different. Some people you can really push others cannot be pushed. Like the client I mentioned who does homeopathy and cognitive movement, she cannot be pushed. She needs to go at a much slower pace. That's what her nervous system can handle. So, and sometimes it takes a session or two for me to figure it out. But so far,

intuitively, I've been able to say, Okay, I think this is how many sessions you need. We start walking through that I can work in person if they're in the state of Maine, or I can work virtually. And we go through it together. And we touch base all the time. So I check in the day after a session, I make myself available in between sessions. And we continue to go down that path. We get very clear on what the problems are, how big they are, like I said. And we continue to monitor that progress over time and measure the after effect. How helpful was this? What things have changed in your life?

Like, for instance, there is an officer that I work with who comes in to do what he calls tune-ups sometimes and one of the things that he reported to me was he started to dream again since he started to work with me and that's one of the signs of trauma is when you stop dreaming or you have recurring nightmares or insomnia those can all be symptoms that are pointing to something really disturbing your subconscious that's not allowing you to sleep. And so, yeah, it's little things like that. Like, oh, maybe there's something bothering me. Signals. Yes.

Lots of signals. And it could be something else. Like I've exhausted all of the things physically and turns out I've got an environmental issue that I'm going to be dealing with as well. Oh, wow. Because of all the work I've done, I'm sleeping between seven and eight hours a night every night. I'm highly functional. I have high amounts of energy. It's just not sustainable outside of what I need to do. And so, but now it makes sense. Like, oh, I've got a whole bunch of crap in my house. That's making me trying to make me sick. Like

good job body that you didn't get there but yeah but uh there's always indicators there it's that we tend not to look at it like anxiety is that a diagnosis or is it a symptom you know and and it sounds like you spend a lot of time helping people listen to their body more than just trying to you know placate it with some drugs and be like, hey, here's some aspirin or some vodka or, you know, whatever the case is. Have fun with that. Just deal with it. It sounds like you really help people get down into the depths of it where they can see more of what's going on and listen to our bodies more.

And that's really what we should do more of. I mean, we kind of ignore so much stuff. We just go, okay, whatever, deal with it, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Well, that's what we're told to do. I mean, how many times as kids, especially in Gen X, were we told to suck it up or rub some dirt on it and keep going? Yeah, that's pretty much my whole life story right there. Right.

That's most of us, especially in Gen X. Like, that's what we were told. We weren't stopped to go, hey, you know, maybe the fact that you continue to have anxiety, hey, maybe there's something going on that you're having trouble facing. And it's always amazes me. Like when I start to feel that myself, it's like, all right, I know I've got something here I don't want to face. And I know that I'm going to feel so much better on the other side of it.

And so I'll explore it and break it apart because I'd much rather be able to face whatever's there. No one is going to lose their mind or make some irreversible act because they face their stuff. It's the resistance to it and the fear around it. That's the stuff that drives us crazy. That's the stuff that drives people to do things that they can't take back. When you face it, I don't know one person who's faced their stuff and been worse off for it. Like, I literally can't name anyone. I know a lot of people doing this work. Well, I've referenced this a lot in the thing. I remember watching Leaving Neverland, and it was a movie about Michael Jackson and some young boys.

And I remember after there was a show with Oprah, and there was a guy who stood up and talked. He'd been molested by a police officer in his town. I think he was an ex-NFL star. And he talked about how he'd kind of hidden away for so many years. It became a poison inside of him and a secret that he was holding and the secret uh he basically referenced was the poison that killed him or it was killing him and uh until he released it and got it out talked about it and and uh owned it and and said hey this happened to me i was a victim uh he it just it was it was toxifying inside him in every way that he would take to try and medicate for him.

And so when he finally spoke his truth, if that's the right term, he found that he could finally heal. And so I think you're right. I think when we keep these toxins inside of us, they fester and they find ways of hiding inside the body and turning into these ugliness things. And until we release them, it's like a poison inside of you. It is. It is. And there can be so much shame that's wrapped up in early childhood sexual abuse because the abusers tend to do something to make it even scarier or worse for you to be carrying that. Being able to share

your story and face that, that is one of the most badass, courageous things anybody can do. Making sure you're sharing it with someone who is safe that you trust because it can do more damage if you finally have the courage to tell your story and it is someone who wants to one-up you on a trauma. I actually had that happen to me at one point. It was like, oh, nothing happened to you. What happened to me was so much worse. It's like, like, really?

Are we really in a competition for who's life sucks more? Like, you can have it. Like, I don't want to be in that game. There's a lot of victimhood competition in our society going on. Yeah. And it's every a trauma is a trauma is a trauma they're big t traumas they're little t traumas they are all going to impact you it doesn't mean you're weak it doesn't mean you're strong it doesn't mean that because it wasn't as bad as what happened to someone else that it wasn't still

bad it's not a competition it's like saying uh i oh you had one arm cut off i had two so i'm far worse and i feel pain and you don't and you're like not really not that's not really the way it works no no it's not like of all the places to compete the trauma arena is not no no calm down people um the uh it's not it's not a competition There's no gold medal for this. In fact, if anything, the gold medal is when everybody can heal and get better and all that good stuff. So what have we touched on? I noticed on your website you've got a lot of different indicators and stuff that can help people maybe know how to listen to their body better or know if they should reach out to you for help. Yes. Do you want me to go into those?

I want to tease out some key ones maybe. Yeah. People that are out there listening going, I wonder if I have any of this hidden stuff might help them kind of go, oh, maybe that's what that is. So we already touched on the sleep insomnia, not being able to fall asleep or stay asleep or night terrors. Those tend to be big ones,

not having a dream state when that's minus taking things at night that make you not dream. That's kind of different. Not being able to sit still. Like if you're one of those people, it's like, I can't meditate. I can't sit still. That may be a sign your nervous system is overactive. Not being able to just sit and watch a TV show or read a book. You have to be doing something else at the same time. That can be another indicator. Chronic pain is another indicator. Constantly anxious or constantly stressed. Like you may take a normal situation and escalate it immediately because that's the

only thing your mind knows how to do is to make it worst case scenario because that's where you feel like you thrive. These can all be indicators that your nervous system is spun up and not functioning optimally for you. Do you find that maybe, have you tried helping children? I mean, there's a lot of children that have different trauma and they struggle in school because they're overreacting. I was a kid who had ADHD. I had trouble focusing and everything else. Anything like that? I do actually. I have several kids that are clients. One has ADD, one has ADHD. They're brothers. They've been getting along since I've started to work with them. They're not fighting nearly as much. The grades still kind of ebb and flow depending on how many sessions we've done, but overall grades are higher. The kids are more cooperative. They're finding it. One of them suddenly said that math is easy, whereas math was his nemesis before. Kids are incredibly easy with cognitive movement,

actually. Talk about resilient people, the little miniature versions of us walking the planet out there. Kids are the most resilient. One of my favorite clients is actually 10 years old and she had hated her mom when she first came in to see me and now she and her mom are buddy buddy they get along great her mom got her into a school that's a much better fit for her she started playing guitar she wants to have pets that have fur again because my dog tangy comes in with me to sessions and now she's a german shepherd um so and it's another kid I worked with, and this is an example of how fast it can get cleared out. Unfortunately, his father committed suicide

and his mom reported that in two sessions, he's back to being a normal kid again. Oh, wow. Well, that's just, that's awesome, man. Because the one thing about childhood trauma is you can carry it through a lifetime and you can see as you go through your whole life, you can see how it's impacted your relationships, your experiences. It can impact your whole life. And sometimes I guess it can end it if you're not careful. Or, you know, I imagine there's a lot of people maybe that are in prison or in other places where, you know, the childhood trauma of what they've gone through is something that's really hurt them. Do you find a lot of, I think it was interesting, you keep referencing first responders.

Do you find they suffer from a lot of trauma and stuff, I guess, from what they see? I mean, they don't see all the beautiful things in this world. They see the blood and the guts and some of the horror. They do. And the way our minds work, what you look for, you'll find. So if you're a police officer, you're constantly looking for the bad guy. If you're an EMT, you're looking for things to go wrong. If you're a firefighter, you're looking for the fire.

If you do that enough, you start to get spun up. And I had been asked a lot, like, why did I want to focus on first responders? I'm not one myself. I've never been one. I don't have family that is. But I know what it's like to sit with trauma in your nervous system unchecked for decades. And my nervous system used to be wired so similarly to how there's a wire that I found that it was really easy to relate to that group. And so that's where I really started to focus. I work with people who have chronic pain as well, who are not first responders, but that group specifically, that's the one that really just seemed to call to me. You know, even a couple of weeks ago, people probably

saw on the news here that we had a mass shooting in Maine and it was about 20 miles from my house. Some of the officers I work with have, were called in on it. There's going to be a ripple effect from that that's going out to everybody because that's the first time that's happened in Maine. And so there's innocence lost. There's the people who were at the events that specifically were in close contact with the shooter. There's everybody who was on lockdown. There's so many different levels in there. There's the police who had to clean up the scenes as a police who found the

shooter. There's the one that's spent hours of their time trying to hunt them down before they found them. There's so much that can come out of one situation. And there's also still stigma to talk about what's wrong or to humanize emotions that are normal for us to feel and allow ourselves to feel when they're faced with those situations. The more people we have talking about this, the less stigma there is, the less shame that's around there, and the less first responders are committing suicide. That is the leading cause of death with first responders right now is suicide. That is 100% preventable and changeable.

Yeah. Sadly, they said some of the people were so, you know, with these AR-15s and stuff, they're so, you can't recognize them. So you have to fingerprint them or DNA or something because their bodies are so destroyed. And having to witness something like that must just be a whole new level of horror I can't imagine. So thank God there are people that stand between us. I remember I had a friend who was doing, he just barely became an EMT ambulance guy right before COVID. And he went into COVID and he said, you can't believe what this is like and what we find. Especially in New York City where the services were completely overwhelmed and they were finding people till later.

And since no one was showing up to work, people weren't missed. And so they would find people that had, had passed away for some time. Um, and, uh, it was just, just a horror show. And of course, on top of everything else that, uh, EMTs deal with. So I imagine there's a lot of stuff. That's interesting. I never really thought about that. We've talked a lot, you know, we've had different military people on the show, talked about

what they went through with PTSD in the military and stuff, stuff but never really thought about emt so that's really unique yeah that's they're definitely in that and when you think about it like of course they are right like and i i did the same thing chris i hadn't really included them like oh they're they're in it too and firefighters like i've heard from multiple firefighters, you can't unlearn what it is to come across a body that's been burned to death. Like it's the smells and the sounds that tend to be more haunting than the sights, but the sights certainly don't help. But yeah, and I worked with veterans as well, too. So it's a lot. And again, it's that same spun up nervous system there that is really, that really starts to be that indicator there. And those things that I mentioned earlier, you know, another one is if you're working out to a point of like almost hurting yourself instead

of health reasons, because you have to work out, that may be another sign that there's something in your nervous system that's ready to come out. Oh, this has been really insightful. What haven't we talked on or touched on about what you do that I haven't asked you about? I think you touched on most of it. I did have a freebie that I wanted to offer so people can try this out for themselves. So if you go to katierigley.com forward slash Chris Voss, I've got an anxiety hack video out there. Download it. It'll take the edge off.

Some of my clients have done this and they said that it's cut their anxiety in half. It's less than five minutes. So go grab it katierigley.com forward slash Chris Voss and grab your free anxiety hack. And it's a couple of principles of cognitive movement without using the ball, but it can knock, just take the edge off right there. There you go. We'll put that link up on the Chris Voss show. I've gone ahead and saved it there. And people can check it out.

It's great that things are out there like this because, like I say, we just placate the pain or medicate the pain and we don't fix the reason for the pain. We're just kind of like, well, make it go away for a way. I did that with vodka for 20 years. I don't think the reason for the pain. We're just kind of like, well, I'll make it go away for a way. I did that with vodka for 20 years. I don't think I was medicating pain. I was having some pretty good fun, and it was a great energy source for when I was younger where you're just like, hey, I'm tired. I want to work on all these companies I own and go a little bit further. Sometimes it was great for Friday and Saturday partying, dating.

But after a while, your body's just like, hey, we're not doing this with you anymore. Like, you could do this when you're 20. You could rebound it, but here's some nice hangovers for you. Boom! And you're just like, I don't, this isn't worth it anymore. The trade-off is not worth it. And even then, the damage to your

body, I really recommend people, I know I hate to be one of those guys like, you shouldn't drink anymore people like oh what are you what are you mormon uh no i just seriously you're 55 man you start feeling the damage and the the stuff that you did and you start feeling the road man that road those road miles start wearing on you where you're just like, yeah, maybe I shouldn't have done that. Yeah. Yeah.

You feel those road miles, right? When you get up sometimes, right. It's like I woke up a couple of weeks ago. I'm like, I feel like today is one of those days that I'm feeling the mistakes I made in my twenties. So there you go. But at least you can deal with the emotional trauma things.

You've got the skills to do that. It's just, so the body is, body is, you know, it's a vehicle, man, yeah, take care of it, that's the point of maybe stop drinking now, we still can, and eat healthy, man, I tell you, I feel so good now, not drinking, eating healthy, doing my intermittent fasting, I went out last night and had a steak. I kind of ate some little fatty stuff there, but I did intermittent fasting the other day, and today I'm intermittent fasting again. I think we're 16 or 18 hours in right now, and I feel good.

I really do. I really enjoy it, but you've got to get your body into that thing. So, Katie, tell people how they can onboard with you one more time, get to know you, reach out, any free consultations or whatever you offer people, et cetera, et cetera. Yep. You can go to katierigley.com and on any page, you can schedule a virtual chat. I also have a banner on the top of the page that has my cell phone number on there. You text me call me reach out anytime

we'll get some time on the calendar to talk if i am not available when you initially reach out see how i can help you i'll give you an honest answer and we'll take it from there um you can also connect me on the socials through the slash chris voss page as well so feel free to follow me on socials i've starting to do some more lighter funnier posts so if you're free to follow me on socials. I've starting to do some more lighter, funnier posts. So if you're going to follow me on social, this is a time to do it. I'm going to have a bedhead competition picture pretty soon. I want to see some good bedhead coming back. I could win that. That's the reason we wear the hat and we're just, I'm always hiding my bedhead hair. But, uh, you know, it was funny. I used to have people tell me sometimes when they would see my bed hair at my office,

they'd be like, you know, that actually looks fashionable. You actually look like you're cool. You got what the kids do now with the hair going all the way. All you need to do is put some grease in there or whatever they call it, the gel. And people won't know that it's bed hair. They'll just think you're really spiky and cool, like, I don't know, Billy Idol or something. So there you go. There you go.

But that was back in the drinking these two. It's the drunken bedhead. So I probably could have won that competition one time. So thank you very much, Katie, for coming on. Boy, we sure learned a lot today. I learned some new terms, too. I'm still trying to get it down, the cogno movement. You got it.

And there you go. And different ways, but hopefully people can, if you have trauma folks, please deal with it as soon as possible. Trust me. Don't want to wait 50 years for it because I mean, look at me, I'm a poster child for it. Thanks for getting, for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much, Chris, for having me. It's been awesome. There you go. Thanks, Mon, for tuning in. We couldn't do it without you either. Go to Goodreads.com, Fortress Chris Foss, LinkedIn.com, Fortress Chris Foss, YouTube.com, Fortress Chris Foss, the Chris Foss LinkedIn newsletter, the Chris Foss 130,000 group. Subscribe to that over there as well. And go to our new thing we've got so you can have a chat with me on Facebook. What is it?

Chris Fossbook.com. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe, and we'll see you guys next time.