The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Kevin Amolsch, President of Pine Financial Group on Real Estate Investing and Helping Investors

Episode Date: December 24, 2022

Kevin Amolsch, President of Pine Financial Group on Real Estate Investing and Helping Investors Pinefinancialgroup.com

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. I'm Chris Voss from The Chris Voss Show. Welcome to the big show. We certainly appreciate you coming by thechrisvossshow.com. Hey, we're going to be talking a bunch of interesting things today, including real estate.

And now, man, who thinks Pop-Tarts should be part of the fine food group pyramid? I'm your host, Chris Voss. We have an amazing gentleman on the show. Kevin Amos is on the show with us today. We're going to be talking about real estate, real estate investments, real estate investment portfolios you can maybe get involved in. We're going to be diving down into all of it. But in the meantime, as always, it's that holiday season.

And you know what? The best way to give gifts to your friends are free gifts. So just like write on a coupon link to the Chris Voss Show, give it to your friends and wrap in a present so it looks nice and say, hey there, I got you something, eh? Give me those socks. Which probably, you know, dads get stuck with the socks and the ties.

But give your, you know, kids don't usually buy their dads anything. Give the gift of the podcast. That's basically what I'm trying to say here, damn it, in my little ramble. Also, go to Goodreads.com, Fortress Chris Voss. See everything we're reading and reviewing over there. Go to YouTube.com, Fortress Chris Voss.

The big LinkedIn group, big LinkedIn newsletter, all this stuff we've got going on on LinkedIn. Check that out as well. Today, he is the author of an amazing book, 45-Day Investor, How to Buy an Investment Property with Nothing Down in 45 Days or Less. Kevin Amos is on the show with us today. We'll be talking to him about that and his company and we'll get into some of those details here in a second. He is a successful real estate investor and private money lender. He earned his degree in finance after serving four years in the U.S. Army. After college, Kevin spent two years working with Wall Street as a mortgage bond

analyst before leaving to work in real estate financing for investors full-time. He and his companies have closed on over 2,400 transactions as a buyer, seller, or private money lender. He spent two decades as a real estate investor and 16 years in real estate lending. He is the author of the aforementioned book and has been quoted in the Las Vegas Review Journal, the Denver Post, Yahoo Real Estate, Denver Business Journal, and Forbes. Welcome to the show, Kevin. How are you? Hey, Chris. What an intro. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. What an intro. We have a bit of energy on this show. It's a show. It's not a podcast. It's a show. That's how we gear it. So give us your.com so people can find you on those interwebages.

Yeah. We talked about that right before you hit record here. We're doing a free giveaway. Learn more about the economy, where it's at, how it compares to previous recessions, and how to stay safe, how to keep your money safe. It's at thepinereport.com. You can download that for free. Otherwise, pinefinancialgroup.com. And keeping my money safe, that doesn't seem like a fun thing to do. I mean,

I've been loving the rollercoaster ride of crypto, man. Oh, my goodness. I'm buying shares in Tesla at this point. Why would I want to keep my money safe? Where's the adventure in that? It's a, it's a very boring and profitable strategy here. Yeah. Sometimes the safest bets are, uh, you know, they're slow, they're slow and steady if you will. Uh, so give us an overview of what you do and kind of how you do it. Yeah, I'm a real estate investor. I mean, that's where I got started.

I picked up that purple Bible, the one from Robert Kiyosaki that we all hear about, read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and decided real estate was really how I'm going to get rich. And so I focused in on that while I was going to college. I was literally calling sellers, asking them to buy their house as I was walking between classes. And then I was working full-time also. So I ended up buying my first house. I was 21 years old, moved out of it, kept it as a rental. And I just saw the appreciation. I saw the cash flow. I saw the tenant paying off my mortgage for me. And I just fell in love with it. And as I started buying one or two houses every month while in college, what I learned about the business that I enjoy so much is putting the deal together, the negotiation

with the seller and structuring that deal. And it all comes down to the financing. That's how you structure your real estate deal. So I focused in on that, started raising private money from individuals and loaning that out to real estate investors to do fix and flips. And here we are. My company is 14 years old now. So 14 years later and we're running a public mortgage fund and we're having a fantastic time doing it. And 2,400 transactions. Yeah.

I mean, you're falling short of 2,500. So you need to work on it a little bit more. Next time we talk, I'll be there. Yeah, there you go. Probably next week. But that's an extraordinary amount of business and knowledge that you have there. So you put a lot of this, I guess, into your book that came out in 2016, 45-Day Investor.

Yeah. I was going to all the real estate investment clubs and networking, and investors came up to me constantly like, how in the hell are you buying a house or two every single month? You don't have any money, and you're a kid. And so I was just getting this question over and over and over, and I'm like, you know what? Maybe there's a book here. So I decided to throw it down on paper and publish that thing. So it's really my story, the ups and downs. So it's very

transparent, some of the mistakes I've made. And it really does walk you through exactly the process that I took to start buying one or two houses every single month. There you go. There you go. And so people can buy the book, they can read about how to build a real estate empire with cash flowing rental property and no money down. That's a real thing. A lot of people think you have to have a whole mess of money down and there's opportunities in every market, whether it's going up or down. Is that correct? Oh, absolutely. And when you start talking about what we talk about in the book, and this is owner type financing, owner carries, owners don't necessarily need down payments. They don't have a box of underwriting guidelines that

you would have at a bank. I've never even been asked for my credit report. So it really is easy to do no money down transactions when you're getting the seller to participate in it. You just need to know how to find that seller and how to communicate with them. Yeah. Just track down the sellers and nail the thing down. You know, we're going through a lot of different interesting things right now. We're going up and down with the Fed.

The Fed seems to have been behind the Federal Reserve on going after inflation, and now they're really playing hardball catch-up, which is going to hurt some people. I imagine we all kind of share in the pain. But what sort of market do you see us going to in the next short while? Do you see a huge correction? Do you see a 2008 sort of crash? What do you see there? Yeah, that's very interesting. I get this question every single day, Chris.

That's why I wrote the report on the housing market, how to compare that to. It's much more similar to the 1990 crash than it is the 2008 crash. The 2008 crash was ridiculous because it was caused by bad credit. This recession we're going into is we're being thrown into it by the government. And it's interesting to me that people are surprised about this, Chris, because you know what? When you spend money like the government spends money through COVID, you're going to have to pay that back. We pay that back through inflation. So this isn't some big surprise that we have an inflation problem right now. We should have been preparing for this for the last two years. I agree with you that the Fed is behind and trying to catch up,

but I also think they might be going too far. So we'll have to see. You don't really see interest rate, the effects of an interest rate adjustment for about six months. Oh, really? We're seeing these constant getting hit with these higher interest rates. And it's starting to work, but it makes sense because when they started raising the rates. But now you've seen inflation coming down. So if you're asking me

for a prediction, it's hard to say. I don't know what's going to happen, but studying previous recessions, I feel like we're probably in, at least the housing, in for a softer landing. Don't throw a rock at me. I know people are not going to agree with me there, but there's just two, the fundamentals and housing is just too strong, I believe, for a big crash, especially something like 2008. Yeah. I mean, I owned a mortgage for 20 years. I was a realtor for six.

I understand how 2008 went down. And we don't have those same sort of paradigms. In fact, it's a really interesting market that we have right now where we have these recessionary sort of happenings taking place like interest rates going up to cool an economy but we also have this explosive demand for employees part of that came from part of that came from uh to well a part of covid not having immigrants come to the country but also not having immigrants in the pool. Part of it came from a lot of baby boomers retired early and left the market. And there's been some Gen X people that have as well and just pulled their 401ks and said,

I'm just retiring early and screw it. So it's created, it's kind of weird. It's like this recession that wants to be recession, but then the employment market is like really huge. We're normally in a recession, you know, a lot, you know, employment source of five, 10%. Um, it, in this market, my understanding is at least 10% or 12% or higher are adjustable rate mortgages, which surprised me that people still do those, but Hey, whatever people want

to do. Um, and those ones are going to be highly affected by what's going on and might be something that ends up back in the inventory and in play where investors can maybe pick them up. Yeah, possibly. But I would argue that there's equity there also. So they might have some challenges with the interest rate adjustments when a lot of these arms or adjustable rate mortgages are fixed for a certain period of time. And once they do start to adjust, there could be a problem with the payment, right? But did you know that less than 3% of the homeowners out there have less than 10% equity? Wow.

I mean, there's a lot of equity out there. And of course, that's because of the big run-up in values. But that equity creates options. Instead of going into a foreclosure and having a defaulted loan, they are going to add to inventory. They're going to just put it on the market and sell it. There you go. Well, then we won't have as many bankruptcies or foreclosures

and things like we did in 2008. I remember one of the problems in 2008 was everyone was just getting drunk on the stuff. In Vegas, there were people like building out shit dishes, their home and spending all like stupid money out of everything out of home equity lines. Uh, I remember one couple,

they made the news. They were literally a young family with young kids and they were literally living in limousines, driving downtown and eating, you know, like trillionaires, uh, all theiraires all their money because they just thought it would last forever for some reason.

And it was crazy. So let's talk a little bit about your company, Pine Financial Group. And what do you guys do and how do you do it? Like I said, I really have a passion for helping real estate investors with their financing needs. So I focused in on the financing side of real estate. And we created a couple of mortgage funds. The way that works is we bring in private investors into a fund.

It's like a mutual fund. Think of it like that. And then we use that money to go out and loan to real estate developers doing fix and flips, some new construction, commercial projects. And we charge high interest rates. So we're, they can call it hard money, private money, whatever you want to call it, but we're helping investors rehab houses or add value. And they pay a premium for that. So we collect 10, 12% on our note rate.

We pay out our investors at 8% and we're able to make this little spread. And that's the business model. There's some fees we charge our borrowers also. So it's a very profitable business for us. I'm going to be transparent about that, but we're also helping our investors to stabilize their portfolio and helping our borrowers fix and flip houses. There you go. So is your consumer people that you're loaning money to, those aren't usually consumers. And what can people listening know if they're a client for yours or how to work with you? Yeah, so if you're on the borrower side, if you watch those TV shows, Flip This House or Flipping Vegas or whatever they are,

and you want to go out and try to fix and flip a house, that's who we'd be loaning money to. But it's not the consumer. It's definitely a mom and pop real estate investor. If we're doing one, two, three fix and flips a year, that's kind of an ideal client for us, helping you get going, get started. And then on the private lending side, if you're looking for some passive investment that's secured by real estate, this is the ideal place to put it. And then that's on a, they can find out more about that on your website, thepinereport.com. Yeah. If you go to thepinereport.com, there's two reports on there. One comparing the market today to 1990 and so how to prepare for what's coming. And the other one is on private lending. So whether you want to loan private money on your own, or if you want to work with a company like ours, you want to know how to stay safe. So that report will help you

keep your money safe. So go down one of them, both of them, totally free. Yeah. The great thing is, with private money investing and investing in real estate, you know, you're, you're investing in something that's very real and tangible, right? Like crypto 2022 folks. If you're not familiar, what's going on in crypto, uh, if you're watching these videos five to 10 years from now,

people do on our channels, uh, you'll know we're in the crypto, uh, frozen crash, FDX has crashed and different things like that going on. And, and,

and well, you know, real estate doesn't go through the highs of crypto and some of the crazy extremes. It also doesn't go through the crazy extremes down, like you see with the thing. And it's good,

like you said, passive income where you can make it consistently. And, you know, what was the old adage my old man used to say? And I can't remember who it's, I think it's attributed to a couple of different people. I think he used to attribute it to Howard Hughes. We used to say,

uh, when we were kids, he liked you. Would you rather have a penny a day for the next, I don't know what it was, 30 years, uh, within,

with compound interest, or would you have rather have, I don't know, a hundred thousand dollars or a million dollars. We'd always be like, uh, we'd rather have the money up front. Cause you know, we're kids. I don't know, $100,000 or $1 million? We'd always be like, we'd rather have the money up front because, you know, we're kids. I don't know what my dad wanted out of us at five years old or eight years old, but he was tough. But, you know, and then he would tell us, of course, that the penny a day on compound interest, you know,

was exponential to whatever the cash outlay was. And, you know, that's kind of this turtle usually wins against the hare rabbit who's just running around crazy. Yeah, we talked about that too, Dan and Chris. And slow and steady, that's what wins. And compound interest, I love the concept. It works so well, which is why Albert Einstein said it's the eighth wonder of the world.

It's amazing how that works. There you go. So was it Albert Einstein that said that? You know, I think it's the eighth wonder of the world. It's amazing how that works. There you go. So was it Albert Einstein that said that? You know, I think it's either Albert. I know it's either Albert Einstein or Ben Franklin. I've heard both. But I think more people have told me Albert Einstein. Yeah, me too.

I tried looking it up one time and I'm like, Jesus, this is true. It's like so many people. I'm just going to say I said it. It's about the only intelligent thing I've ever said. So you guys cover different loans. I noticed you do IRA loans. I thought that was pretty interesting. I think we've had people on the show that have talked about IRA loans.

Yeah, so the thing about an IRA loan is you can't guarantee the debt. So the government protects the IRA money. It's immune from creditors and that type of thing. So you can't have a personal guarantee on a loan to an IRA. So that's what makes it so specialized and very few lenders offer that. Everybody wants that personal guarantee. So we could loan an IRA money to go out and do a fix and flip or buy a rental property or acquire a property inside the IRA. Oh, wow.

That's got to be pretty good. I understand the, I don't remember it very well, but I understood at the time the explanation on how to do it and putting it into, I think you put it into a private IRA or something you do. Yeah, self-directed. Self-directed, yeah. What a brilliant thing there. You guys do flash cash, 90% acquisition.

What is 90% acquisition? So it's really for a real estate investor that wants to buy a property and close fast. So we don't have any appraisal requirements. We can get that underwritten and closed within one day. It's pretty rare that a... Right, we're faster than a title company on that. We pull our own valuation, do our own comps.

You're going to finance, you're going to do a 10% down payment, and then you're going to have to fund all of the construction yourself. So you have some skin in the game for these. And we're pretty conservative on that. So that's how we're able to close so quickly. But, yeah, just 90% of the purchase, you cover the rest, and we'll go to closing. There you go. You do 45-day bridge loans and commercial bridge loans.

So do you guys get into commercial and the fund you guys run? Yeah, limited. We'll go up to 20% of the fund in commercial. And I want to limit it because of the liquidity. Now, commercial is fantastic. Usually it's a higher net worth, higher quality borrower, and you could still cash flow them. So commercial properties, you could rent out, produce income. So if everything collapses and we have to start taking foreclosures, at least I can produce income and continue to pay

the investors their 8%. But they're much harder to liquidate. They sit on the market much longer than, let's say, a single-family house would, which is why we want to be more weighted in the residential side. There you go. What other things do you help borrowers with? Yeah, it's really that. I mean, you're reading off some of the products that we have on the website, but it really comes down to a real estate investor that wants to add value to a property. So anytime you can add value to it, we want to be involved and want to help

you with that. Now we're specific on locations on these loans. On the residential side, we're Colorado, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Washington, DC. Oh, there you go. On the commercial side, we'll go national. And our private investors, because it's a public fund approved by the SEC, we could take investors from all over the country. There you go. So anybody can invest anywhere. And then you guys are typical to those markets. Colorado, what a crazy market.

Ever since they legalized pot up there, and I think they legalized everything, or maybe that's Oregon. But that created such a drive to the real estate market up there. It's insane. It's crazy. Yeah. Especially the industrial and warehouse space because of all the grow facilities. Yeah.

A big boom in that. I mean, I love Denver. Denver is a beautiful place. I think half my liver is in Lodo, partying there in my 30s, 40s. But what a beautiful place. Such an expansive valley. It's a lot like, it's bigger I think than Vegas. Vegas just, Clark County just has a huge spread. But I think Denver just seems to be endless when you drive around Denver. Well, it's very interesting because it's supposed to be a small town.

It's supposed to be the cow town, right? So the infrastructure is set up to be small, and now it's midsize going large. It's over 3 million in the metro. Wow. People love it because of the 300 days of sun, the mountains. You've got all the activities. Yeah, except for the hail. No, there's that.

And tornadoes. We do have those. Oh, yeah. You know, when I first moved there, I came out of a 7-Eleven. I came from Utah where, you know, they have like 10 kids per family, and you'd watch the kids jumping on top of their parents' car across the street and stuff. And you'd be like, well, that must be nice. And so I was at 7-Eleven.

We first opened our office for a mortgage company in Denver, and I came out and I saw this car. And it looked like a bunch of kids or a kid had taken a ball-peen hammer, that round end of the hammer, and just pockmarked the whole car all over. And I was laughing because I'm like, ah, that's back from when I was in Utah where some kid got a hold of a ball peen hammer. And the guy took me aside. And I was having my BMW, one of my BMWs brought out.

And the guy at 7-Eleven, he says to me, he goes, no, man, that's a hail. You're not from here, are you? And I was like, what? That's a hail? That's a hail? I called my office. I'm like, we're not shipping my BMW? That's a hail? I called my office. I'm like, we're not shipping my BMW out here. No, no, send it to Vegas.

And, yeah, I was like, I'm just renting cars in Denver. I'm not on a car out here. So we'd rent the Jags out of budget, rent a car. But, yeah, it's a crazy town. Minnesota's kind of an interesting market. What's going on in the Minnesota market? Yeah, it's very similar to Denver. I mean, the fundamentals in real estate are very strong, less than two months of inventory.

So people are freaking out. Hey, we're going to see a housing crash. That's what I keep hearing, right? That's what we're reading in the papers. And then you look at this fundamentals, which is supply and demand, and you're like, you know, an average neutral market is about four and a half months of supply. And we have in a sort of 1.9 months of supply. So we would need to double just to get to a neutral, even market. So I think we have a ways to go if we're going to see a crash.

There you go. Wisconsin, too, is an interesting place. Is that market still holding up about the same? Yeah, it's very similar. We don't do as much there. We pretty much stay right in Milwaukee. Milwaukee. Yeah, Milwaukee.

But, yeah, it's good. We are more conservative out there because of the price point. So we typically loan 70% of the property's value, and Milwaukee will go 65%. So we're just a little bit more conservative there. We have great networks, big, deep database in Denver and Minneapolis. So if we have a problem, we can get it taken care of quickly.

There you go. And then, of course, Washington, D.C. I'm sure the rent always goes up there. It's great. I mean, I'll see that going down anytime soon. There's always going to be jobs there. Yeah, crazy. What was the thing I was going to ask you about?

What do you think about these big companies? I think BlackRock is one of them. Or these big companies that have been funds that have been buying up everything. Like Crazy Stupid. I think even Zillow was involved in that. These big companies that have been funds that have been buying up like everything, like crazy stupid. I think even Zillow was involved in that. And now some of them are, I don't know if they're having liquidity problems, but I know one of them locked off withdrawals. And there's kind of an interesting discussion that's been going on that there may be some inventory coming to the market from some of these companies maybe hitting the wall. I don't know.

What do you have? Well, yeah, so that's Blackstone you're talking about. They have PAWS. They have PAWS distributions, and they had identified 30 cities across the country where they're going to stop buying properties, which is a concern because they're the largest or were the largest buyers of single-family detached homes in the entire country. So they were buying them and renting them out, and they were just foreclosure auctions, wherever they can get them, right? So they were competing heavily with real estate investors.

So you can look at this two ways. Is it a concern that they're not going to be buying it and will we see an increase of inventory because it's not getting sucked up by this big buyer? Yeah, possibly. But isn't that maybe a good thing? Because now one of the largest competitors to investors is out of the market, and you can go out and find better projects and better deals, better value. And they probably, I mean, my understanding, some of it was just like AI automated.

Like Zillow, I think, was just buying up like stupid everything. And there's probably a bit of higher risk to some sort of portfolios like that, isn't there? I think that's what they're finding. That's interesting. So Blackstone is buying it for their own portfolio for their investors to benefit from. Zillow and Redfin and some of these other, we call them iBuyers, they were out there buying them to flip them. But they're losing their ass, Chris. I mean, they're dropping prices like 20, 30% on these properties.

And you're seeing them just going, oh, it's crazy. But that's because they're paying way too much for the house that needs work because of the model you're talking about. Do you think Zillow has a good model to value real estate? That's terrible. It's absolutely terrible it's taking a radius of properties and trying to average and guess a value instead of looking like you were a realtor so you know looking at very specific comps that's how you value property not yeah wide net and just take an average of it so they weren't getting their values right and they're

out there buying and that's why they're losing their ass and that's why they've never been profitable in the iBuying program. And that's why we're seeing all these layoffs. You said earlier that there's a lot of jobs out there, which is true. Unemployment is way too low for inflation to be where it's at. It has to come up. We're going to see unemployment go up, but we're already seeing it. You have Amazon, I don't know when this is going to air, but you have Amazon dropping 50,000 or whatever employees in the middle of the holiday season. Yeah, a bunch of tech companies as well. It's kind of interesting to me because the mid to small companies and businesses are desperate for those people. You know, like I mentioned before in the show, everywhere I go in town, like I was at,

where was that? Five guys the other day, they had a whole table spread. I mean, I told the joke, I think on the show, they didn't really do this, but this is a joke, but they were like, what do you want, sir? And I'm like, I'll take a burger, some fries and a drink. And I'm like, would you like to work here too? Because we need somebody to cook that for you. There's the joke. I got a question for you real quick. Go ahead. You were at Five Guys. Yeah.

Does that hit the five food groups on the pyramid? It also does, yes. It does? Okay. Official, I believe. I don't know. Somebody said that. Maybe it was me.

So whatever. But yeah, that and cheese. Lots of cheese. That and Pop-Tarts.. That and Pop-Tarts. Yeah, and the Pop-Tarts. You gotta have the Pop-Tarts. Oh, I remember what the joke was I originally wrote. It was Hot Pockets. It wasn't Pop-Tarts.

That was it. I was trying to get back to that. But I'll save that for another show. Hot Pockets. If I can steal from that comedian. I didn't homage him. It was Hot Pockets were part of the five food that comedian, homage to him. It was Hot Pockets were part of the five food groups, but Pop-Tarts worked the same. Don't eat that crap, people.

Crap, I just lost the Pop-Tart sponsor. But I'll get the diabetes sponsor back now. There you go. You got five guys now. Wow, that just went all the way around, didn't it? I feel like that guy from Cocoonoon who always did the diabetes commercial now. So anyway, back on track.

Yeah, it's interesting how they were just buying all this stuff, and it's crazy. And yeah, like you mentioned, you can't just look at a whole area. You've got to comp stuff to what's comparable is what the comp refers to in the market. So, you know, you can't compare, you know, a price range. You know, in like Vegas, we have these really weird things where we just build an area, put a wall around it, and then this is the high-value homes, and then next to it we put a bunch of single-family homes, and we're like, these are completely different. You're like, but they're right across the street from each other.

That's right. But there's a wall. And up here in Utah, it these are completely different. You're like, but they're right across the street from each other. That's right. But there's a wall. And up here in Utah, it's a little different. You have like an area that you build it in. You don't put up any walls because they're not really big on HOAs up here. And they're spending all that money on the 10 kids, I guess, for the HOA fees. I mean, Vegas is crazy with the HOA fees. What else haven't we touched on that you guys do and

some of the ways you've helped consumers? As I'm listening to you talk and I'm thinking the volatility and the crypto and what happened there, you know, went from 60 down to, what is it, today, 16 or something. It's insane. Are we talking about Tesla stock or are we talking about crypto? Let's talk

about stocks. I mean, I get feedback all the time about our public fund. Like, I don't know. First of all, maybe it's too good to be true, so I'm not going to invest in it. Or I'm not going to invest in it because my financial advisor told me to throw it into a mutual fund in the stock market. So we hear this all the time, right? We all understand the stock market. That's where our 401k goes.

That's where our advisors get paid to direct us. So they're directing us there. And then you look, it's safer, right? It's safe because everyone understands it. You look at 2022 from the top to the bottom is over a 25% loss. And you're going to tell me real estate is risky? I mean, even with normal stocks, you at least have what's called the price-to-earnings ratio, where you know what the value is based upon the asset value of the company, if it were to be sold. And sometimes there's fluctuations that are crazy on that. But Tesla stock just hit a new low of, what is it, 137 today? Their high was 303, so they're down by half since October 2220. So have fun with that, folks.

Yeah, and that's one stock. I was talking about the whole S&P. Oh, yeah. That's the 500 largest companies, and that dropped 20. So even if you're diversified, you're not safe. Yeah, these come down massively in recessions. The highest point of Bitcoin was $64,400 in November 12, 2021.

As of today, you nailed it, $16,793. So I've got a lot of crypto friend boys that are working at 7-Eleven right now. Yeah. That's hurting. But yeah, investing in something of value that makes money, you've got the depreciation write-offs. That thing is always a bonus. And you just make money day in and day out.

And it's always going to be there. It's always going to be worth something. It seems like in this country, the last 10 or 20 years, we haven't really been building a lot of new real estate either. It seems like the demand has been more for apartments. It's interesting. I just read this because we did a webinar, and I was trying to prepare for that webinar. And building is down over 10% new start.

So the inventory is not coming on the market. Yeah. And that's what happened in 20, what was it? It was, well, it was 2001. It was the market. Yeah. And that's what happened in 20, what was it? 20, it was, well, it was a 2001.

It was the nine 11, um, or 2000, which, which, which world do I live in? 2011. Was nine 11,

2011? I don't know. 2001. That was 2001. Dot com, dot com crash. And then nine 11 right after. So just like a tough year. It was like a double whammy.

But what happened with 9-11 was a lot of people, especially in Vegas, they pulled a lot of developers and builders pulled their permits, or not their permits, but their projects. And they're like, we're going to have a session. We're going to pull back. And it left this glut hole in the inventory where they weren't being produced, which meant that two or three years down the line, when those products weren't hitting market,

they ended up with a market that the demand exceeded the inventory and went crazy. Went crazy, yeah. And so, you know, recessions like this will do the same thing. But, yeah, you know, in markets like San Francisco and stuff, you can't even really build there. No one wants stuff blocking their view up on the hill in downtown. And it's crazy. So the demand just keeps growing.

And last time I checked, we had, what was it, 7 billion people in the world? I don't know. People still keep having kids, sadly. No, I'm just kidding. Some of you, it is sad. Stop having kids. It's like me. They went to me and said, please, don't breathe. Don of you, it is sad. Stop having kids. It's like me. They went to me and said,

don't breathe, sir. Don't have any kids, Chris. You're a horrible enough person as it is. So there you go. But no, please. None of your listeners or viewers are that. They don't fall into that category. No, it's just me. Yeah, just me, pretty much. They're just like,

yeah, don't breathe, Chris. One of you is enough. That's basically me. Clarify. Yeah, just me, pretty much. They're just like, yeah, don't breed, Chris. One of you is enough. That's basically what those are the jokes, people. So anything more you want to touch on or tease out about your book and you guys and what you're doing? No, I just think that, you know, when you listen to your financial advice and you want to stay safe, you want to keep your money safe, you need true diversification. True diversification does not come in a mutual fund in the stock market. You need to invest some in Wall Street if you're comfortable there and some in Main Street. Let's get some of the money into Main Street.

And then you know what? That tortoise wins, right? The tortoise wins. So if you're slow and steady, you don't have to hit the home run. Base hits win the game. It's something that's going to be consistent. You can count on. And then if it can compound, that's a bonus.

Diversify your investments. Throw $5 in crypto and just put all your money in something more safe. Or safe, for that matter. More safe. I don't know. Safe. So there you go. Well, it's been wonderful and insightful to have you on, Kevin.

We certainly appreciate it. Thanks for coming on the show. Chris, you're awesome. It's been a lot of fun. There you go. Well, that's what everyone tells me. You're the only one who told me that. There's a joke somewhere, but I'll just leave it at be. I don't want to ruin the fact

that I'm awesome. Give us your plugs, your dot coms, wherever people can find you on the internet. Yeah, if you want to reach me directly, you can go to pinefinancialgroup.com. Again, it's pinefinancialgroup.com. If you want that report on how to keep your money safe in private lending, debt is much safer than equity, so that's why we do lending and not so much buying.

Go to thepinereport.com. It's thepinereport.com. There you go. Check it out, guys. Also, there will be an affiliate link on the Chris Foss Show where you can order up your Pop-Tarts and Hot Pockets. There you go. Order up the book wherever fine books are sold.

45-Day Investor, How to Buy an Investment Property with Nothing Down in 45 Days or Less. Thanks, Manas, for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com for just Chris Voss, youtube.com for just Chris Voss. The big LinkedIn group, 130,000 people. Go subscribe to that thing over there and LinkedIn newsletter as well. Thanks for tuning in.

Be good to each other. Stay safe, and we'll see you guys next time.