The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Kirk McCarley, The Seed Sower Coach on Seeking an Oasis for Mind & Soul, to Reassess, Recalibriate, and Refocus in Career & Life

Episode Date: September 1, 2023

Kirk McCarley, The Seed Sower Coach on Seeking an Oasis for Mind & Soul, to Reassess, Recalibriate, and Refocus in Career & Life Theseedsowercoach.com Kirk McCarley With more than 30 years of executive leadership experience in both public and private sector environments, The Seed Sower Coach has a solid reputation for fostering individual growth and development beyond the client’s expectation. Enthusiastic while also contemplative; determined, yet relaxed; his passion as a coach is to help clients celebrate self-confidence and achieve full God-given potential. A graduate of the University of North Texas, Kirk is a Certified Professional Coach as well as a Professional in Human Resources (PHR) and SHRM-CP Certified. He also is a Production Assistant for both college football and basketball for ESPN and leads group cycling classes as a Certified Spinning Instructor. Kirk has been married to wife Cindy for 43 years and has 2 children and 6 grandchildren. The McCarleys make their home in Florida with rescue dog, Ivy.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, because you're about to go on a monster education rollercoaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com, thechrisvossshow.com. Welcome to the big show, my family and friends. We certainly appreciate you guys being here.

The family that loves you but doesn't judge you, at least as not as harshly as your mother-in-law or your mom. Both of them. They're kind of in cahoots together because they want you to improve and clean up your room. So do it now, damn it, and take out the garbage. Thanks for tuning in, folks. We always appreciate you.

As always, you always have family at the Chris Voss Show. So if you ever feel like you're alone in the world and the world hates you, it does, but the Chris Voss Show doesn't. So there's always that family there. And there's a plethora of brilliant minds and brilliant guests that we have on the show for 15 years now, two to three times a day, a weekday, I should say. The lawyers made me correct that. 10 to 15. I can't feel my legs anymore, so I don't know what I say half the time anyway. Thank God for lawyers or not. 10 to 15 episodes a week.

There is so much content that you can never be alone is what I'm trying to say. So even though the world hates you, the Chris Foss Show doesn't. So you got that to work on. Run with it, baby. You go. We have an amazing gentleman on the show and he's gonna be talking about his life journey how he helps people how he mends the world how he improves the quality of life and makes everything better and how maybe he can help you too as well uh we have a gentleman kirk mccarley on the on the. Do I have that to pronounce correct, Kirk? Well done, Chris.

There you go. I wanted to make sure. I forgot to get that clarified at the beginning of the show, so now we know for sure, but it's good to be sure. He is the seed sower coach, and he joins us on the show to talk to us about all the stuff he's learned, how he coaches and helps people people and everything that he does. He has over 30 years of executive leadership experience in both public and private sector environments. The seed sower coach has a solid reputation for fostering individual growth and development beyond the client's expectation. He's enthusiastic while also contemplative, determined, yet relaxed. his passion as a coach

is to help clients celebrate self-confidence and achieve full god-given potential he's a graduate of the university of north texas and kirk is certified an accredited professional coach as well as a professional in human resources and shrRMP-CP certified. I believe that means that he can birth babies fully. I'm not sure. He'll tell us what that means. He also, I just made that up. He is also a production assistant for both college football and basketball for ESPN

and leads group cycling classes as a certified spinning instructor he has been married to his wife cindy for 43 years has two children and six grandchildren i'm surprised he doesn't have great grandchildren at this point but give him time and they make their home in florida with the rescue dog ivy welcome this show how are you sir i am well chris thanks for having me thanks for coming thanks for coming as well uh you coming You should be a relationship coach 43 years of marriage I mean you should be a marriage coach Probably some good advice there

As I told you before we came on I have the wherewithal to out kick my coverage And married up And she is an amazing girl This is going to be a show With a lot of ESPN terms, isn't it? It is. There's your first one.

No added charge. There you go. Do I have to pay the licensing fee to ESPN for this? I don't know. We'll check with the attorneys. So give us your.com so people can find you on the interwebs, please. I am theseedsowercoach.com, simple enough. And based, as you said, in Florida, northwest Florida.

We were fortunate yesterday. The hurricane escaped us. It was to the east, but we got a nice downpour of 3.6 inches, so the grass looks lush and green outside my yard. Yeah, that was crazy. That was like one in 90 years or 160 years or first ever or something. A lot of weird stuff going on with the environment lately. It has been. And the Big Bend just doesn't get that.

It had been, as you said, like 90 years and worked its way out through Georgia and South Carolina. And I'm seeing spaghetti bottles now, whatever they are, that indicate there's a possibility it may curb its way back into florida really yeah wow well maybe it's like a uh maybe it's like a i don't know is there a lot of ragu sauce going around there to kick off a ragu uh thing spaghetti deal maybe a nice maybe a nice alfredo there you go there you go or vodka sauce that's my favorite vodka sauce especially if the vodka's in it uh there you go so uh give us a 30 000 overview of what you do what is the uh what is the moniker that you use that's so interesting this seed sower coach that's a play off a couple of different things first of all scripture from the Gospel of Luke. And that's what a coach attempts to do is plant seeds, cultivate them, allow them to grow and flourish into

something that's better than it was when that kernel was put into the ground. I use that metaphor also because I'm an avid gardener facing the challenges of gardening amidst salt air and hurricanes here in Florida, I still had tremendous sprouting of green beans, squash and herbs this past year. So that's how the name came into being. And what I specifically focus on is executive and career coaching. But as I tell my clients, life always intersects both of those. Doesn't it though? Doesn't it though? I love the concept of the seed sower and basically use that in your life coaching, your career coaching, transition and specialty groups, et cetera,

et cetera. So who are your clients and what type of person are you usually looking for to help succeed? I'll tell you what my aim is, and then I'll translate that into the reality. My aim is people like me who are late in career, maybe a little bit younger than me now. And I'm trying to find that capstone achievement or opportunity in whatever it is that I do. Or I'm ready to employ my dream, what I've always thought of doing, but for whatever reason, I haven't had the opportunity to do that just yet. I also work with younger people who are not fresh out of school, let's say, but have been in the workforce for three, four, five years. Okay, I've seen this. This really isn't the answer. What do I do next?

Now, what do I end up in reality? A little bit of that, but all points in between as well. I have people that are trying to figure out how can I have a greater leadership or executive presence? How can I communicate more effectively? Even on the career pathway, I'll have some that will say, I've got everything I want in my career, Kirk. Now I'm looking for romance. I'm looking for relationship or bettering relationship. And I get into a little bit of deer happy with that at times. There you go. There you go. So tell us your story. How did you, you know, how did you grow up and what shaped you and kind of molded you that got you down this road? I'm a native Texan and early on in my life took an interest in athletics and sports,

but really the statistical element of that, and I'll get into that in a minute when we talk about ESPN. Went to school, joined a fraternity, which was a really important turning point in my life because I connected with the people I would later work with, with ESPN, but also I became the rush chairman for the fraternity and I decided, hey, I enjoy recruitment. So out of school, what do I do? I go into human resource management and I do that basically for the next 35 years. Well, I'm in my mid to late 50s by that point in time. This has been a pretty good career. I give it a B plus and A minus.

It wasn't the best thing since sliced bread, but it's been pretty good. What am I going to do next to reach my dream and my capstone opportunity? So I was thinking of several different things, but I made the decision to hire a life coach myself. And about three meetings into it, I looked him in the eye, pointed my finger at him and I said, I want to do what you do. So at the age of 56, I went back to school. How do I become a coach like my coach was? did that I persevered some storms the last couple of years in the job that I was working in it was a real test on on on my ethics but I survived that we had a dream my wife and I to get down here to northwest Florida We were in St. Louis at the time. And so many people in

St. Louis, they discover Florida, the Midwesterners, they move here. So that's what we did. And hung out the shingle in 2016, 17, and began the seed sower coach. This is my seventh year of doing that. And that was kind of the foundation for how I got to where I am now. There you go. Do you miss the barbecue in St. Louis? I miss a little bit of it, but I miss going through Memphis to get some of the barbecue that's there. I love the interstate barbecue that's off the side of the road. So that and KC were wonderful. I will say this, those of you who, my friends are in St. Louis, I miss the toasted ravioli, the Ted Drew's frozen custard, and the St. Louis Cardinals, but not so much this year. There you go. I miss Arthur Bryant's in Kansas City. That's one of my favorite Burnhams place to go.

So you end up going out of Florida. What was it when you had that moment with your coach, what was it that you found really drew you to want to be a coach? What was the light for you that turned on and went, I really want to do this? Great question. I was thinking about going into therapy. I needed therapy at that time, but thinking about going into therapy as a potential vocation.

I thought about teaching. I even thought about faith-based ministry. But I took an accounting of what have I done to this point in my life and what's a natural transition. And towards the tail end of my HR career, I was doing less and less of let's write a policy. Let's go out and deal with employee relations. Let's look at our compensation and benefit plan. And it became more of people approaching me and saying, Kirk, I'm lost with where I'm going. I'm not getting the traction in my career that I would like.

What do I do? How do I market and sell myself? So noting that and noting so much of what coaching involves, it created a natural transition for me and incorporated so many of those same elements of the potential careers that I was going to pursue anyway. So it was a sweet spot for me. And I was just intrigued with my coach's technique and what he was doing and what he did for me.

So do you find that you're attracted to helping other people, it sounds like? That's the impression I'm getting. I am, and what I find myself doing more and more is listening. I've got two ears, one mouth, and quieting myself, and taking joy in asking good questions. There you go. Good questions are the key to a great life. I think Anthony Robbins wrote a book on that years ago.

I remember reading it and the power of questions. And it's great for thinking out of the box, seeing things that you know you don't know you don't know, seeing past risk of Tomas and maybe understanding or being self-reflective and more self-aware of things. Um, what do you, what do you find their topics? Most people are helping with, or do you have an example of someone you helped recently that, uh, you helped them do a breakthrough? I had a, uh, client I was working with last year and into earlier this year, and we had about 14, 15 meetings. But what was so enjoyable for me, and I was doing cartwheels over it, is I saw a growth each time we met. This was a client that began with kind of playing their cards close

to the vest, not sharing a whole lot about who she really is. And that is some information I needed to help her with. How am I going to market? How am I going to sell myself into the workforce? She grew each time. I learned more about what made her tick, what her passions were, how she differentiated herself from others, what made her unique. I started to learn about her family, about her kids that she had about what it is she desired and the self-confidence in her just grew each time and now these days I follow her on Facebook she's putting all kinds of things out there about not only her professional life but her personal life and this is an interesting person that you'll want to get to know. And I just felt so much reward and gratification from that experience. There you go. Everyone's a brand now. And so you kind of have to build yourself out there as like a LinkedIn and different things and, and let the world know who

you are, what your, like your professional aspects are. And some of the things that hopefully you think if it's not, you know, too out there, uh, you know, you probably don't want to, you know, start walking around. Like I always, we always do a callback joke about how the earth isn't flat at square on the show. Um, and, uh, in fact, we just had a NASA guy on, and I was telling the jokes about the, I'm like, everyone knows the world's square. It's not round. And, uh, so we were having a laugh over that, but, uh, you know, don't,

as long as you're not putting that on Facebook, although you can, it seems a lot of people putting weird stuff on Facebook. But, you know, it's interesting how, you know, you can share the world. And when you share with the world, you know, even some of the challenges, you know, or stories like we tell on the show, they're kind of like the little life manual to life. And, you know, I've shared moments of my life where i maybe didn't want to share them that were uh painful or intimate like you know my dogs died and the pain that i was feeling over it

and and i found that was interesting was when i share with other people i found i wasn't alone and um it helped some other people i had some friends say wow you wrote you know me you realize i had any kind of closure with a parent or my dog or whatever. And so sometimes, you know, sharing stuff, you know, like she did, makes it so that we kind of realize we're not alone in this journey and struggle and stuff. And everyone's kind of struggling with maybe a little bit of what they are. And sometimes if you share, you help other people. You're absolutely right. And a client will express things like that that is hurt or an unresolved issue.

And a coach will ask from an accountability standpoint, what do you sense you need to do about this? And when do you want to do that by? And what are you going to say? So there's that accountability of somebody is there watching me to see if I'm really going to jump out of that airplane and if the parachute is going to hold me and it will. And the relief and the satisfaction that comes from a client when they have executed what they know they need to do, it opens up so many other different parameters of their life and sometimes career as well. There you go. What's the difference between coaching and counseling? Because sometimes people aren't sure, what is the difference?

That's a good question. And I use the metaphor of Gretzky, Wayne Gretzky, the great Gretzky. He intuitively knew where the puck was going to be when he was on the ice. And he skated to that. I believe with each of my clients, they also have the capability of identifying where their puck is, where their ball is, whatever it is they want. It's just somebody needs to ask them the question to draw that out of them. So it's looking into a future state. Counseling differentiates from that. And by the way, counselors and therapists do a wonderful job. I wasn't joking. I've had some opportunities to get some counseling in my life when I've hit some rocky moments, and it has been well worth the investment. But a lot of that is based on past behavior. What was your family of origin like? What were the traits and behaviors that you picked up at that point in time?

So it's a lot of reflection and then applying that reflection for where you want to get to. Coaching differs in that we're not so reflective, but we're future oriented. Where do you want to go from this point in time now? And we have to be very careful because if a client comes to me and says, I'm dealing with some deep hurt at this point or struggling with some addictive tendencies. If we're a good coach, we need to be able to recognize this may be better worked out with a clinical psychologist or a counselor, and we work on a referral there. So I work in concert. In some instances, a client will have both me and a counselor that they're working on for different things. And it's interesting how we typically parallel the approach that we're taking with that client.

There you go. What did you learn about yourself through coaching others? There's an old saying that the teacher sometimes learns more than the student. Oh, and with that question, I have learned more in this last six or seven years, it feels like, than all the many years dating back to maybe when I was two or three years old, when they say you've captured about 90% of everything you're going to know by that point in time. I've learned self-confidence, the confidence to apply my curiosity and to not feel so limited in asking questions and having that quest for wanting to learn more. I've learned that when you talk to an audience of people such as we're doing now, I used to have a lot of trepidation with groups because I look at it as it's one-on-one. So confidence and talking with groups and asking good, deep, and probing questions because I'm curious. There you go. Well, somebody in our audience is enjoying the message, so there you go.

People are out there going there going hey this is awesome so uh and you know it's it's uh once again it comes back to the thing about not being alone so you do life coaching you do career coaching uh what do you find most people are struggling with in the business world nowadays in careers covid was a watershed moment for many people. For me, it was when my business really took off because in 2020, a lot of people thrown for loop. What do we do now? It's kind of like William H. Macy in Pleasantville and the world goes into color. What do we do now? We dealt with a black and white environment. So it was coming up with solutions for that is what people were seeking. That's why they sought my counsel. We still deal somewhat in the aftermath of that. I like this remote work idea, but I'm missing the interpersonal connection. How do we have a healthy and effective

blend of that? So I'm hearing a lot of that. How can I be an effective leader in a remote environment? How do I supervise and measure performance when I'm not watching people physically day in and day out. There's elements of confidence, there's elements of trust, elements of faith that kick into that as well. And I guess the big question on that comes into how should my services be valued? Am I being compensated for what I'm worth? And if I'm not, how do I sell? How do I market myself in the most effective way? So those are a few of the more profound things I'm hearing from clients in the work environment. There you go.

It's a tough world out there when you're looking for a job and you're trying to stick out from other people. We've seen a lot of this. I think we had a recruiter on recently who talked about how you need to build yourself out on, on social media to kind of build your own brand. Even if you work for a company you're happy with now and make it so that, uh, you know, uh, recruiters or, or companies can see your brand and, and go, Hey, this, uh, you know, it looks like somebody who should have a board. He speaks about his expertise and everything else. Uh, one thing you did touch on is faith. And I know faith is important to you. Uh,

how does zero with faith play into what you do? I come into relationships, faith neutral, uh, people that get to know me, they will learn about my faith potentially or not if it enters in to where we have an intersection in our life. I give a very interesting example. I'm a Christ follower. I had a client who was in the Middle East who was Muslim. And there was an element of him during our interaction that was seeking and that was searching. So one of the things I wanted to be very careful with, I don't want to alienate this guy. I want to be a vessel of what Christ would, I think, want me to be. So rather than cast judgment, it was listening.

Tell me more about your faith, why it's important to you, what you're seeking that's within your faith. We were able to establish a relationship. It was not one of where I need to make him something else, but I want to be a positive vessel so that his takeaway is, hey, I dealt with this Christian guy. He was okay. I felt respected, and I in turn felt respected from him. We had a relationship. I grew as a result of it.

There you go. You know, and that's important. I mean, everyone's got like different belief systems they have, it it always seems like in you know aside from that people struggle with the same sort of things in life you know job careers life marriages relationships uh and all those things and those seem to be you know i guess no matter what faith you believe in you know you can still have problems like i can't get enough right swipes on me on Tinder. So there's that. So, you know, I'm still working on it.

So tell us about what you do for ESPN. This is interesting. I've had the pleasure of working for ESPN now for some 28 seasons. Before that, I worked with an organization out of Charlotte called Raycom. And before this age of conference realignments in Texas, where I was at the time, and native Texan, we had this thing called the Southwest Conference. And it was all Texas teams, except for Arkansas for a little while that was playing in that. So that conference disbanded 1995. What are we going to do now? first team on that new network. And that seems funny, talking back to 1996, that ESPN has two networks, because now we've got ESPN Disportus, ESPN Radio,

ESPN2, ESPNU, Classic, it goes on and on and on. But it was still in its infancy at that point in time. So my entry into it was via a college roommate who was a broadcast communications major, and he needed a statistician to help him with college football and basketball. So that's how I got on that bus in 1989. He has since moved on to other things. I've continued and this is going to be my 35th season upcoming and starting Saturday for college football and then we'll go into basketball, baseball, softball, other sports as well. There you go. It's sports and ESPN, man. It's crazy all the different sports they have out there. There's even new sports

now. I'm seeing something with vegan horse riding in Sweden. You see those videos. The gals are just running around with hobby horses, sticks, doing the thing. There's all sorts of new sports. It's like when you and me were kids. Let's invent a game. We've got tag, which is a sport and people get paid for it. Now pickleball, uh, it goes on and on.

So it's like, uh, the world of make-believe has come to reality. There you go. I'm still waiting for drinking games to make it. Like, I don't know. You watch the state of union drink every time someone says, uh, I don't know, more jobs or, you know, whatever. Uh, or I don't know, you watch the State of Union drink every time someone says, I don't know, more jobs or, you know, whatever. Or, I don't know, you watch, I mean, yes, Tom Brady isn't playing anymore, so you can't watch every time he drinks every time he does a touchdown and end up in the hospital with alcohol and stuff, poisoning. But, yeah, it's, you know, I mean, at one point, I think, isn't there like an ESP 20 or something? Is there seeming like you guys have so many channels there, you couldn't even watch them all, basically.

I think there's an ESPN bet now that is a betting network. You can examine the lines. Yeah. Wow. So that is one of the significant changes that has taken place is you didn't talk about las vegas that's kind of come more into the mainstream now it really has with the with some of those sports uh betting things i remember you know i lived in vegas for 20 years and you know the nfl was always and basketball was like we're not going there you guys are betting and we'll get you know some

somebody will pull a whole michael jordan on us and you know that'll be bad or pete rose or whatever and uh you know uh and and now it's like you know we got the raiders there which is great for me because i love the raiders um i don't know why at this point but i must like losing but it beats being a bills fan at this point uh so there you go or Or a Browns fan. They've got cool helmets. I mean, the silver crossbone. Why can't you? What's not to like?

Yeah. And they're like pirates. And they still play like it's the 70s, which is probably why we're here. But they have a cool new stadium as well. So they got that going for them. And I don't know. Strippers in Vegas. So there you go. Now if we just win like three

games a season that's all i ask man it's like too much to do so they get major league baseball next the a's are gonna uh relocate are they gonna really yeah and we're just stealing everything from oakland at this point that seems not fair oakland yeah it's almost like my childhood is just being moved around like i grew up you know when in la where there was the rams la rams and then the and the raiders and then now the rams are back there and you know raiders are following me around so i don't know it's it's kind of it's everything's old it's new again. And everyone in San Diego just got screwed to hell by the chargers. So there you go. And, and, and I was in St.

Louis before here. So we lost the Rams back to Los Angeles and that left our community very bitter, but also somewhat wealthy from the settlement that came from that. Oh, there you go. There you go. Well,

you guys didn't really have the Rams. It was, they were on loan from LA. I guess so. Yeah. Kind of of like kind of like trans world airlines yeah yeah basically you know so uh you know you do a number of things that's why i bring this up now you're also into spin classes i believe is that correct yes i get i get i get paid money to yell at people on bikes in their little bike shorts and clips and things like that. I've been doing this for free down at the park on Saturdays. It's wonderful. So I've been teaching spinning classes for 15 years.

And how I got into that, I was a participant. And so I had a person that was writing next to me, Bob. Bob was 75 at the time. It's always Bob. It's Bob. It's kind of like, hi, Bob, was a drinking game for the Newhart show, by the way, speaking of drinking games. You guzzled every time they said, hi, Bob. Anyway, not to digress, but this Bob this Bob said Kirk you and I ought to go teach

classes and so a 70 something year old guy I'm not going to turn him down so we did I'm still teaching Bob's still teaching at 90 something wow that's that's the beautiful part about teaching and of course authoring books too you can write until you're old uh and uh you know you don't the body gives out and the brain hopefully will still keep working um you know that or you if you're writing it's going to look uh really cool if your if your brain's not working anymore people are going to be like this is amazing comedy um which i think describes my book uh so there you go uh and so combining all these different things you do being a person who's a multi-versed uh multitasker of different careers and and interests how does it help you with your

coaching and and advising other clients i'm the elder member of the gig economy. So I'm kind of liking the proposal when you saw Oscar would marry Ryan Reynolds and Sandra Bullock. And he was also, now don't do stripping like he did, but he was always there. And so I'm kind of always there in a lot of different venues, but they all, in an interesting sort of way, play off of each other. The listening part of it when I'm working football, listening to what my broadcaster is saying, what information can I offer at this point in time to spice up this

interaction between himself or herself and the color analyst that's there? Is there some statistical data that I can interject into that? In coaching, a client is at an intersection. I'm thinking about my next career move. What's it going to be? What thought have you given to using your skill as an attorney and also maybe your side gig as a potter to blend those together? It seems like an odd combination, but sometimes thinking of things that seem totally unrelated, they blend together. And he thinks about, well, in the process of displaying my pottery, I can also talk to people about potential liabilities that may exist. Of course, spinning instruction, that's coaching right there. And then encouraging people saying, you can do this,

visualize in the spinning class that you're climbing a hill, that you're sprinting in the Tour de France. What does the weather feel like? Creating those kinds of sensations and elements. So they all intersect with each other in some way in many ways there you go do you yell at people in coaching like you do in the spin class no i'm nice in coaching and spinning uh that's my hide uh persona that comes into play there you go you're dr jekyll mr hyde is that what's right there there you go. You got to love it.

So how do people reach out to you, work with you, see if you're a good fit, on board with you, et cetera, et cetera? What kind of people are a good fit for you in working with you? People that want to get to a state of better. However, they define better. I want a better employment situation. I want better enjoyment in what I'm doing at work. I'm looking for bettering my communication, my relationships. So motivation, seeker generally works well.

I'm looking for someone who has a real desire to get to another place. I described the coaching journey as being kind of like a hiking trip in some ways. We're going to go down this pathway, you and I, we're going to discover some things. Maybe they'll be good, maybe not so good, but it's a pathway of self-discovery. And if we don't like it, we'll turn around and come back and get back on this path again. I'm looking for someone who's energetic, who is ready for change. There you go. And it sounds like a great bunch of work that you do, and you have a breath of life experience to help people.

Any final thoughts as we go out? Looking, I think back on have gotten to where I am right now, and who has inspired me? Who has presented some things that I want to learn from, I want to apply. I think of those stories, things people have taught me. We are in some ways an original product, but we're an original product because we're part of everything that has been applied into us, our parents, our friends, our teammates and sports people that we've worked alongside. Maybe those people that we just had a very brief interaction with, kind of like Eddie, the carnival worker in Mitch Albom's book,

The Five People You Meet in Heaven. I love that book, and I use it in a lot of coaching application, who he interacted with thinking he didn't make a difference, but he really did. Those intersections are constructive. They're sacred. There you go. And sometimes life is uh long and big and you just never know where it's going to lead so give us your dot com so people can find you on the interweb and get to know you better and reach out to work with you i can be found at the seed sower coach dot com and you can also get a hold of me via email kirk at the seed sower coach.com that's my email address there you go well this has been fun and interesting kirk it's been wonderful to have

you on the show thank you for coming by my pleasure chris thank you for having me there you go uh and uh thanks to our audience for tuning in remember the chris voss show is the family that loves you but doesn't judge you so you know buy the shirt whatever that means uh go to goodreads.com for just christmas youtube.com for just christmas linkedin.com for just christmas and tiktok uh christmas one you see all the great stuff we're doing give us five star reviews over there on itunes we really appreciate that thanks for tuning in be good to each other stay safe and we'll see you guys next time and that should have us out