The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Last Rights: The Fight to Save the 7th Amendment by Attorney & Professor Jeffrey B. Simon

Episode Date: January 9, 2024

Last Rights: The Fight to Save the 7th Amendment by Attorney & Professor Jeffrey B. Simon https://amzn.to/3RK0GcA Last Rights: The Fight to Save the 7th Amendment shines a bright spotlight on a grave but often overlooked effort by large corporate interests to undermine America's civil justice system and consumer rights. Trailblazing plaintiff's lawyer, Jeffrey B. Simon, wrote this book as a rallying cry for anyone who has ever been wronged by a rigged system of laws. Through riveting tales of real courtroom drama, Simon exposes the insidious influence of corporate greed and political power weaponized to repeal personal rights and weaken public safety. Last Rights is a wake-up call to consumers and lawmakers to take collective, corrective action before restoration of our civil justice system becomes unachievable. This is essential reading for anyone who cares about the future of our country, and a call to action for those who believe in justice and fairness.

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And there you are. So there's that. We have an amazing gentleman on the show. He's the author of the latest book called Last Rites, The Fight to Save the Seventh Amendment. I bet most of you don't know what the Seventh Amendment is, and I don't either. But we're going to find out, and that's why we do this damn show, so we can educate people with info and entertainment. amendment i'll bet most of you don't know what the seventh amendment is and i don't either but we're going to find out and that's why we do this damn show so we can educate people with info entertainment we have jeffrey b simon on the show with us today he is a regular legal commentator on

the law and crime network he is one of the real lawyers behind the netflix series painkillers starting matthew broderick he has 30 plus years of fighting to protect consumer rights and giving a greater voice to those affected and the importance of the struggle. He hosts the Outside Council podcast series and just released this explosive new book, Last Rights, The Fight to Save the Seventh Amendment. Welcome to the show, Jeffrey. How are you? I am great and thank you for having me. There you go. And I think we should get a plug in there. You're a real lawyer. How long have you been a lawyer?

31 years. 31 years. There you go. Congratulations. So give us your dot coms. Where do you want people to find you on the interwebs? At Jeffrey B. Simon. There you go.

Yeah. And give us a 30,000 overview. What's inside your new book? So the Seventh Amendment is the right to trial by jury in civil cases and most people don't know that every single american is guaranteed under the seventh amendment of the united states constitution the right to trial by jury in any dispute where the amount and controversy is over 20 and that it was so important as a bedrock of democracy and the formation of our union that it's in the original Bill of Rights. Yeah.

And this is so important. Yeah. Well, because, you know, in jolly old England, disputes were decided by the crown or by nobility. And our founders rejected that proposition. They wanted disputes to be decided by the people, people who had something in common with the litigants, the people who have the dispute. But unfortunately, that sacred guarantee has been under corporate assault, and unfortunately, very successfully so over the last 20 years. And my book, Last Rites, exposes how large corporations and the politicians they pay

are deliberately robbing every American consumer of their rights to hold reckless companies that hurt or cheat them accountable to the judgments of juries and how we must push back to restore the rights of consumers workers and medical patients before we lose them forever there you go people don't realize how important these rights are i i started realizing how important a lot of these rights are to you know defend yourself in the court of law and call witnesses and have a jury of your peers you know with when i got a lot of speeding tickets to my bmw and some of them you know there was one case where a police officer claimed that he paced me for several miles before he pulled me over

when really i'd blasted by him and i was speeding but i blasted by him and he and he immediately lit up his lights but he lied and so it was important for me to defend that. His wife was in the car, and so there was a battle to get her as a witness. And that's when I realized how important, you know, being able to defend yourself at a court of law does and makes a difference. So tell us why these corporations are doing this. What's the form they're using? I think I know the term that they're using to go after and create.

Is it arbitrage or mediation? I think they're trying to force as opposed to having a court battle. That's one way. And that's an astute question. So one way is through forced arbitration. In virtually every consumer purchase agreement that you or I or any of your listeners enter in, whether it's the purchase of a car, an airline ticket, a computer, a cell phone, invariably somewhere in that agreement among the 5,000 words of small

print is language that says in the event that there is a legal dispute between you and that big corporate seller, you waive your right to trial by jury. You can only arbitrate the case against them in front of basically retired judges or lawyers of their choosing. And obviously that is not what our founders had in mind but unfortunately courts enforce those hidden provisions every day there's been and correct me if i'm wrong but there's been you know we've had lots of authors in the show that talked about this there's been attacked by you know billionaires and corporations to to to dissolve or or weaken most of these laws i mean you citizens united was a huge one you know now you can just go out and buy your own scotus judge you just have to give them in a fucking rv

and some trinkets you know it the citizens united was about buying a politician outright you know basically and some of the other different rulings that have gone along with it in the same sort of vein and you you see you know we've had people on that have talked about, you know, centers for national policy and different things, that their job in the billionaire class is to erode rights, workers' rights, you know, rights of consumers, because they want to do whatever they want to do. I mean, they really want to go back to polluting like they were in the 70s and, you know, turning lakes on fire.

They really don't care, and they don want any any sort of part of it and i think one of the issues too and and correct me if i'm wrong when i'm done here but one of the issues too is they can go to other countries you know they don't have the regulations we do for you know environment for jobs for unions different things like that and they love doing doing business there. And so I think their fantasy is that they can create the same sort of conditions here to create a desperate workforce, a desperate population that has no recourse. You never know when a doctor, even though most doctors are competent and caring, some are not, and you never know when a doctor is going to botch a procedure on you or someone you love that causes devastating and lifelong harm. And yet,

in states across the country, including Texas, for example, where I live, there are arbitrary caps on the amount of money that any person can receive as compensation for medical malpractice for their pain and suffering. And so in the state of Texas, for example, the hard cap is $250,000. It doesn't matter how bad they botched the surgery or the procedure. It doesn't matter how severe the pain it is or how long it will last or how much emotional torment that it may cause you for the rest of your life, depending on the gravity of the harm, it's $250,000. And my argument is that's, of course, unconstitutional because a jury should be permitted to decide

based on the individual circumstances of your case what the nature and degree of that harm is. But we have just let this happen and my book is a siren call to push back oh wow there you go there's a there was a recent story that i saw i thought it was recent where somebody had gone in a woman had gone in to have some sort of some sort of a you know just a routine surgery removal of something inside of her. And she came out and had her arms cut off. And just the horror of that, I just sat and went, oh, my God. If that happened in Texas, the phantom pain that people who lose limbs have for all of their lives,

it wouldn't matter whether a jury thought that was worth $5 million or $10 million. It's only worth $250,000 maximum. So in your book, do you give people, you try and educate, I imagine, people on why this is important and what the difference makes. How can people try and, how can consumers fight back? Well, you know, legislators, whether they are so-called Republicans or Democrats or something else, it doesn't really tell you whether or not they are in the pocket of corporations that want to change the law to remove consumer protection and allow them to either sell defective products or pollute the environment or harm you in other ways with impunity. And so the question that you should be asking yourself, no matter what your priorities are as a voter, they should include how does this candidate feel about the Seventh Amendment, the right to trial by jury, and will they stand up to corporations that want to change the law to further expose consumers, patients, and workers to harms without remedy.

That's issue one. Issue two is that in state courts, judges stand for election at least once in most states. And there is information available about whether or not those judges are good or not so good on the issue of providing the litigants in their court with a fair and reasonable opportunity to have their case heard by a jury. You want to know where a lawmaker is on the issue of forced arbitration because forced arbitration in consumer agreements should be invalidated, period. Most people have no idea that when they bought their laptop, they waived a constitutional right when they did it. And it's interesting because we think about whatever constitutional right is most important to any particular person.

Let's say it's the Second Amendment. What if just in the purchase or let's just say the lease agreement for an apartment, somewhere subtly in there, right, you fail to see as a renter that you waived the right to possess a gun in that apartment. And also subtly but expressly waived your right against unlawful search search and seizure and one day the police just knock on the door and they say we're here to confiscate your gun and tell us where it is or we're going to toss your apartment to find it and you say what are you doing i have a second amendment and fourth amendment against this activity and they say no you don't because you waived it Are there apartments or houses that are doing that? Not that I specifically am aware of, but the point remains the same.

That's what we do with our Seventh Amendment every time we buy a product. Yeah. Yeah, I know a lot of that goes on. I'll see it or hear it or, you know, you agree to arbitrage or stuff. And, I mean, owning companies and making money, we got sued back and forth. We were either suing somebody or they were suing us. It's where the rich do battle on more.

Lots of shakedown lawsuits. Every now and then, the judge would be like, we're going to put you guys in mediation for a while to see if you can work it out. Jesus, what a waste of time that seriously was. It was usually some inept dude that, I don't know, had no backbone.

And it was just, I mean, it was basically like, well, you two argue it out, and I'm just going to sit here. I don't know how most mediation is, but ours was always the worst. I was like, this is the dumbest fucking thing ever. And usually I'd launch out of it that way. They can be worthwhile or worthless but there's nothing like having a jury in panel to decide oh yeah that forces both sides to think about the strengths and the weaknesses of their case with a candor and eminence like never before yeah because you can win and lose on any given sunday

uh or any given judge or court case. I've had that. I've had where you win aspects of one court case and lose the aspects of another in the same sort of different aspects of the decision. And then it goes to appellate court and both sides get flipped. You're like, wait, we lost the thing we won and we won the thing we lost? What the fuck? Well, and that happens sometimes when judges have contempt for the judgments of juries which is what i'm talking about in the book ah there you go too so what what are some ways that people can fight back do they need to read the fine print they need to

demand better from their politicians do they do they actually need to give a shit about who they're electing you know you get to yeah when people complain a lot about politicians and i'm like they're just a mirror of what an idiot society we have i mean you guys are watching the kardashians all day long and you wonder why our politicians are stupid hello listen this is a winnable issue in march of 2022 the united states house of representatives of Representatives passed a bill that would invalidate these hidden forced arbitration provisions in consumer and employment contracts. It stalled in the Senate. But the point is, it got traction in the House. And if, of course, the Senate had been composed a bit differently at the time, it could have gotten traction there. The point is, it is doable politically. made these contracts, these particular provisions within employment contracts,

invalid in cases of sexual discrimination. So if a person is sexually assaulted or sexually discriminated against in the workplace, they don't have to arbitrate it. They can bring their case before a jury in the civil justice system. And of course, that's really important for two reasons. One, it validates their constitutional right to do such a thing. But secondly, arbitrations, unlike court proceedings, are secret. They're not public.

We don't know that. Really? That's what they're like. So if you have an arbitration, if you have a forced arbitration, the sexual predator and his or her conduct remains confidential so that they can defend again. Right. So it's a big darn deal. And we've gotten some traction politically.

And you should hold your lawmakers and your candidates for office accountable. Where are you on the issue of forced arbitration? Will you oppose it? Yeah. that ruling made me really angry and it wasn't ruling the the bill for how sexual harassment can't be arbitrated or forced into mediation whatever was do i have that right yeah that made me really angry because i was like why are we singling out this one idea because i know who's behind the lobbyists on this it's

people who want to you know sue the fuck out of companies and make a bunch of money and and hey fine it's but you know their their rights there for people who are sexually harassed congratulations but why why is this like why are we only doing this segment like we're not do everything else you know and i was like i was like this is bullshit like why do we oh it's basically specialized treatment of a certain segment of attorneys that like shaking down companies for this stuff and and that's really who the lobbyists were behind it i'm sorry that's just fucking how it was but i i was really angry about it because i'm like why not everything else why don't we just dissolve whatever this is going on but now i've got more education with your book and what's going on so people need to give

more shit about their rights basically exactly i i talk about in the book you know rights are like teeth you should just tend to the ones you want to keep and and the thing is is that we as voters we fixate on protecting our pet constitutional rights but my argument is every one of the Bill of Rights is just as important as any other. In the case of the right to trial by jury, it's the basis upon which you can enforce your other rights if they are breached. Yeah.

I mean, I've never been in a criminal situation, but I recently heard of Amanda Knox in France, if people remember the story of the murder and stuff like that. And I recently listened to Sam Harris do a breakdown on her thing. And, and I had, I had some bias because I, I didn't know what the true facts were,

but I just remember there being a scene about it. And I was like, I don't know, but listening to her rundown of the thing. And then there's a documentary now on it. You see the, just the complete idiocy of not being able to have you know to an attorney or trial your Miranda rights and stuff you do in a criminal

setting just what a shit show it was and how I mean it's changed the course of her life and and she's always going to be wearing that that albatross with people assuming sure she's innocent or guilty but you see how you know something like that you know there's a lot of people that have gone to jail that have been wrongly accused and they've been coerced into confessions and different things and you know people just don't realize how important these rights are until until they either lose them or you know their their their life and freedom is on the line right you never know when a drunk driver is going to cross the median and hit you or someone you love. You never know when someone you thought you could trust in business cheats you or takes advantage of you in ways you could have never imagined.

Right. And that is what the right to trial by jury is a safeguard against. It provides a remedy for when your legal rights have been violated in relation to how you've been harmed but there is a large segment of corporate america that does not want you to have those rights and they have the resources that they can politically deploy to make those wish lists binding decrees there you go there you go so So what is your, you know, I, you guys, I mean, a lot of lawyers fight this stuff. I mean, you guys fight stuff all the way to the Supreme Court. Has any of this been adjudicated? Is the Supreme Court ruled against the consumer for the most

part? Yeah. The short answer is yes. That since the 1970s, virtually every iteration of the Supreme Court, whether it's quote-unquote politically conservative or politically progressive, has determined that these arbitration agreements in consumer purchase contracts or in employment agreements or what have you, are completely enforceable no matter how one-sided, no matter how, you know, discreetly embedded in the agreement and so forth. And, you know, it is no longer a priority of the United States Supreme Court that any contract be actually mutually agreed upon and otherwise bargained for, at least in relation to compulsory arbitration, they will enforce them almost without exception. And that is really problematic because it is not only anti-consumer, it is anti-democratic

because it is a revocation of the Seventh Amendment. Yeah. Well, somehow we need to get that fixed. Which shows like yours. I appreciate the opportunity. Definitely. Educate and inform. Does, is it mainly the, are the legs that it stands on mainly that if you sign a contract

waiving your rights, that's the real problem? Exactly that. The notion is, well, it's, it's an agreement and we enforce the right to contract. The problem is it's almost never an actual agreement. Arbitration is fine. If you're talking about two companies who know their business, have comparable bargaining power, and decide that in the event that there is a disagreement between them over the sale of wheat or the sale of oil or whatever it is, we're going to simply waive the right to trial by jury mutually. We're going to have a binding arbitration, no appeal.

It's going to be secret. We're going to live with results. Fine. They should have every right to do that. It's very different when you are engaging in the purchase of a computer or a cell phone online, and by the click of a button, you simply wave this right that you never saw. Most people never understood they were actually waving it or what it means. And let's just assume the cell phone or the computer are defective, and they do this to 2 million people.

Well, each of you may be only out of, depending on whether it's a cell phone, you know, 50 bucks or a computer, 500 bucks, whereas they made, as you might say, Chris, a shit ton of money for which they can never be held accountable even though it's an ill-gotten gain because the binding arbitration prevents it from ever happening. That is crazy. I know that a lot of times we sign away a lot of stuff in the, we sign up for social media. No one ever reads the fine print.

I think South Park did a joke about how, I think they did a thing back then, if you bought an Apple phone, Steve Jobs got to turn you into some sort of device or something. And no one reads the fine print. And usually it's so long and intense, you're just like, no one's going to read it. It's almost like an abuse. Like I get these, I get these emails all the time. They're like, Hey, Oh, Hey, message from Capital One. In fact, I've been getting a lot of them from the beginning of this year.

So somebody is updating some, but I've been getting these, these messages. They're like, Hey, we've updated our terms and services to make them more consumer friendly and easy to understand. And consumer friendly and easy to understand and we just want you to know and every time i get one of those i'm just like why does my butthole start to hurt right now like somebody's jamming a i don't know a very rusty whatever anyway it's that's what we call fridays around here a single time an american opens a bank account, it's a credit card, buys a cell phone, they waive a constitutional right in that agreement. Wow. Think about that. And so your point is we don't all have the time and wherewithal to read it all. Fair enough. Nor should we expect that we're waiving

a constitutional right by failing to do so. It's just a cell phone. But that cell phone can be defective, right? And they can refuse to fix it. And they can do that 2 million times and nobody can do anything about it. And imagine this impacts class action lawsuits. Class action lawsuits are usually, I mean, I'll let you say it because you can probably put in better words as to why it's important for class action lawsuits to be a thing. Yeah. So that's a really great point. Number one, these compulsory arbitration agreements that are very discreetly embedded in these long consumer purchase contracts routinely also cause the purchaser to waive the right to participate in a class action lawsuit. And class action lawsuits are a really important part of our civil justice system because what they do is they allow people who have been harmed or cheated in a way that may be significant to them, but not for a lot of money, a $50 phone

or what have you, to aggregate all of their cases together in a lawsuit against the company they allege cheated them. And that's really important because if you've been harmed or cheated at a $50 or $100, you can't find a lawyer to take that case, right? For all the obvious reasons. It's too expensive. The recovery is too low. But if they do that to 2 million consumers, we want the ability to hold that company accountable for its ill-gotten gain in the civil justice system. And class actions provide the way to do that, where now it's 2 million times the 50 or 100 dollars, which is what they receive, which is what they shouldn't have received. And that lawsuit is worth doing because the stakes are high and the costs are manageable. Unfortunately, these arbitration agreements cause a waiver in each and every one of those instances of that,

which means the company can get away with this big grab bag of ill-gotten gain. Wow. I mean, the putative damages of those are important as well, because when they do punish somebody, they make it very painful. They can go to court if they haven't waived their right to trial by jury and try to hold that company accountable for its negligence, if any, in selling a defective product. However, if the evidence reveals that they weren't just negligent, they weren't just careless, they actually knew the product was defective and could cause great harm. And they disregarded it because they simply said, we don't care. We'll make more money anyway, and we'll deal with the consequences later. Punitive damages exist to punish them for that misconduct. And we need them. But unfortunately, they too are often being dismantled by so-called tort reform.

Wow. Is there, I mean, are these getting, are they getting harder to pierce, you know, and be able to overthrow these things? You know, I don't know. Don't like with prenups, you have to, you know, if you're going to sign a contract for that, you have to have an attorney available on both sides. Right.

All that BS. Maybe we should have the same thing if you want to sign a contract for that phone or whatever, you need to have an attorney on your side. Well, I make the same argument if you want to sign a contract for that phone or whatever. You need to have an attorney on your side. Well, I make the same argument, which is, of course, that's one of the reasons it's so profoundly unfair. So, you know, a big cellular phone company has an army of lawyers who figure out how to draft that contract in just such a way, right? You don't. Nor should you need one. But unfortunately,

the unfairness created in that dynamic by abuse is extreme. There you go. So what have we touched on that you want people to know that's inside of the book? So as I say, in settings like this one, you know, you and I have this robust discussion about all these cutting edge issues in litigation and how to use the civil justice system to hold wrongdoers accountable and improve public health and consumer safety. But in boardrooms and some of America's largest companies, wealthy power brokers plan for how to most effectively dismantle the civil justice system and skew it for their own gain. My book explains to a broader audience how and why so-called tort reform is a corporate scam that hurts the public and betrays democratic ideals.

I remember, wasn't it George Bush, W. Bush, who made a statement once? He's like, we have to stop all these class action lawyers that are ruining everything or something. Wasn't that? Exactly. George W. Bush was the tort reformer in chief. What happened was, is he appreciated, as did his campaign strategist, Karl Rove, that there was an enormous amount of money available to him in corporate America for his run for president if he would champion their cause. And their cause was, we don't want to be held accountable in the civil justice system for the wrongs we do. And so in his State of the Union addresses, year after year, he went on and on

about frivolous lawsuits, right, and the need to stop all these greedy lawyers, never mentioning two things one there's a right to trial by jury that you're looking to take away from every american and the second is it's a lawsuit that made you president right good point there you go you know it's been interesting to me we've had people on like we've had people on there written at length about center for national policy betsy devos's organization as it's an umbrella organization for 250 different other entities underneath it and and them and different other billionaires and organizations like it they have been fighting for 50 years to stack the court to get consumer based things diluted just everything diluted so they basically do whatever they want with

employment right with jobs with with rights i think the for a long time the abortion issue was just kind of red herring it was the only way they knew they could get people out from nixon they i mean they tried everything to get people out to vote and it was the only thing that would go so they ran with it and it's they they ran with it until the dog finally caught the car and now they're really screwed yeah but but i mean they got what they wanted but they've they've been trying to stack the court for the longest time it has been it has been on their game to just get everything willed down you know you'll see elon complain about stuff you know he's he'll spout some crap

about how he loves workers rights but then you see how he's fighting the people in sweden and they're going through a huge battle in sweden over there with his union with it with their unions and and his cars and stuff and you know these guys these guys just want to do whatever they want to do they don't care they don't want regulations they don't want they don't have to deal with the epa they don't have to deal with they just want to be able to make as much money they can so i don't know they can be number They just want to be able to make as much money as they can. So, I don't know. They can be number one on the Forbes Fortune 500 or whatever Forbes. That sort of thing. So, give us your

final pitch out on people who buy the book. Get to know you better. Reach out for whatever you want to reach out to you for as we go out. Okay. The bottom line is that my book describes how important your constitutional rights are in a manner that you might not have ever thought of. That your right to trial by jury is the means by which you

can enforce all the other rights that are important to you and more familiar to you. But that opposite that is a very powerful corporate force that is stripping you of that and then related rights every day. And that there is no right that is so entrenched in American life or inscribed in the Constitution so indelibly that it can't be taken from you. It can, and somebody more powerful than you wants it to be because they find it expensive or inconvenient when you assert it. And so pay attention to two things. What is a candidate's position on the right to trial by jury, whether they are opposed to forced arbitration? And secondly, if you get the opportunity to serve on a jury, no matter how inconvenient it is for you, do it. Do it for the good karma that when you need a jury, never thinking you would, there'll be one there for you.

Yep. It's so important. I remember, I think I've talked about this recently on the show, but I had a speeding ticket one time where I said the guy lied. And his wife was in the car, and he claimed that he'd monitor my speed for several miles before he'd flipped his lights on he had it and so i remember we were arguing over me calling his wife who'd been in the car because he was just a he was an undercover cop or for motor vehicles he wasn't even like a real cop i suppose and i guess he'd have to be to pull me over but so he pulled me over and lied and so i wanted her testimony and as we're

arguing over it the judge ruled in my favor and i remember saying to her i remember her saying to me and it was funny how she said it she says chris i gotta tell you there was a time in your life when you probably had an innocent cute little face that people believe you that time has since passed a very long shot something that right but she says you know i really respect what you're doing and i want people in the courtroom to understand that chris is chris is activating his constitutional rights and this is important that he cares and he's doing this because more people need to care about this they need to understand why this is important so while i think he might not be as innocent as he portends to be,

I'm going to grant him his emotion because he has the right to defend himself in court of law. And that's when it hit me like a ton of bricks how important that Constitution is and those rights are. Well said. Oh, definitely. And after that, I just, anytime I got in a jam, I just pound the table on,

but I have a right to defend myself in court of law. And then finally I just got, finally I just, anytime I got in a jam, I just pound the table on, but I have a right to defend myself in court of law. And then finally, I just got, finally, I just started calming down on how I drove my BMW. But yeah, about six tickets in, I was like, maybe I'm going to have to defend myself. So this is really important. And I'm glad you're out educating people on this so that they can get involved in the thing. I think there's a comedian who joked once that politicians need to have NASCAR drivers where they have all their corporate sponsors stuck on their

outfits so that we know who owns them. That's funny. I like that. Oh, you're with Pfizer. Okay. I can see that they've got a very large patch. They're on the side of your car. Anyway, thank you for coming to the show, Jeffrey. We really appreciate it. It was a pleasure being with you. see that they've got a very large patch so they're on the side of your car so they you know anyway thank you for coming to the show jeffrey we really appreciate it it was a pleasure being with you and

i really thank you for what you're doing and giving me an opportunity to talk about things that i care about there you go keep up the good work folks order up the book wherever fine books are sold last rights the fight to save the Seventh Amendment. Read the Constitution, people. Damn it. I mean, seriously, sit down and read it. After January 6th, I sat down and reread the Constitution. I keep a copy on my desk. Most of the great journalists and Pulitzer Prize winners we have on the show keep a copy of them at all times. It is so invaluable, those rights that you have, the democracy you have have and it can be gone in an instant and

we've seen places like hungary in 2020 it was gone in an instant just quick there's another country i can't remember that was gone at the same time but we can lose these rights and the people you vote for make all the differences jeffries talked here anyway uh go to goodreads.com fortune's chris fuss linkedin.com fortune 4s.chrisfoss, chrisfoss1 on the TikTokity, all those great places on the internet. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe, and we'll see you guys next time.