The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Leslie Chen, Owner of Rise Lean – The Ultimate Coach For Sustainable Weight Loss

Episode Date: October 19, 2022

Leslie Chen, Owner of Rise Lean - The Ultimate Coach For Sustainable Weight Loss Riselean.com

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, this is Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com with a monster education roller coaster with your brain. That was a lot to put in that thing. I can't believe I wrote that.

The poor radio guy probably had to do that. I was just like, is this guy serious? Actually, he was really great. He was on Fiverr, too. So if you ever want a good referral to a guy who makes great intros, he's one of those radio guys who's worked in radio forever. So anyway, guys, welcome to the big show. We certainly appreciate you guys coming by. Vince had some amazing guests. Be sure to watch for those. Also, be sure to refer the

show to your family, friends, and relatives. As you know, we're going to be talking to an amazing woman today. She's the creator of what she calls Rise Lean and the Lean Instinct Formula. We'll be talking about weight loss, how to live your best life, and your relationship with food. Many of you have a bigger relationship than you probably should have with food. Maybe it's time to break up, at least slightly. I don't know. We'll get into that in the show. In the meantime, go to YouTube.com, Fortress Chris Voss.

I haven't seen many of you going over there. I want to guilt and shame a little bit here on the show. So I want to see you go over to the YouTube channel and subscribe over there. It's free for an unlimited time. You want to get in on that deal while it's still available. Also go to goodreads.com, Fortes, Chris Voss. Go to LinkedIn. We're doing so many things on LinkedIn.

It's magical over there. There's magic happening. Magic, I say. And it's not that kind of stuff where stuff disappears. It's the stuff where things reappear. So like it's the opposite of that Copperfield guy or whatever his name is, Copper. I don't know. You know what I'm talking about. It's anti-magic. Like stuff appears rather

than disappears. It's kind of like money in your bank account, the opposite of money in your bank account. I don't know what the hell we're running off on today, but we do a different intro every time. So what do you want, man? You want the same old, same old? You want something different? So go to LinkedIn. There's the auto chat that we're doing over there as well. Today, an amazing woman is on the show with us today. Leslie Chen is on the show with us. She is the founder of Rise Lean and the creator of the Lean Instinct Formula. For eight years, she has been helping high-achieving professionals who struggle with food obsession and problematic weight patterns that help you create a blissful relationship with food while gaining the best body they can have.

Her proprietary system leverages powerful wisdom from Asia and brings people to achieve food freedom and weight freedom in weeks by activating their dormant instincts. And she even has a free masterclass she's going to talk to us about. You can find out more about that as well. But in the meantime, she's here. Leslie, welcome to the show. What I can say is pleasure. A pleasure to have you as well. Leslie, give people your dot com so people can explore that as we chatter on the interweb.

Sure. It's www.risglan.com. There you go. There you go. And tell us a little bit about your life, your life's journey, and kind of what got you into getting into the business you're in now. Well, it used to be a nine-to-five corporate job. I was in management consulting for a few years.

I worked in New York City at the time. The one thing I noticed a lot is everybody, all of my colleagues and almost all of my clients was asking me this question when we were having lunch. Like, Leslie, you eat so much. You don't care about what you eat. How can you just keep it? And I've been in a 125-pound body for a long time now. I don't even remember. I think this was from 16 years ago. So they kept asking me these questions. I kept giving them tips and advice. And they were like, well, it works for me. So I started thinking maybe it's a good idea because now in the United States,

we're seeing a lot of people struggling with weight. And I first, when I first came to the States, I was also struggling. I gained 50 pounds. My first semester states I was also struggling with I gained 50 pounds in the first my first semester I was here for study here so you you can't believe it 30 pounds gained in the first three months and there's been a lot of dieting program and one after another only to gain another 20 so it was it was pretty dramatic at the time. Emotional eating, binge eating as well. So I had my journey of overcoming all this stuff. And that journey actually started when I went back to China.

I was 170 pounds. My mom could not recognize me when she was literally just keeping away from me, facing me. She was looking at distance, anticipating my arrival, but I was right in front of her and she didn't say anything. Wow. Are you sure she wasn't ignoring you? Because your mom can be mean that way sometimes.

No, she... My mom's been ignoring me from birth. No, she hasn't. I never had a conversation with her about whether you were actually ignoring me or not. I think she might. She might be reacting hasn't it? I never had a conversation with her about whether you were actually ignoring the org. I think she might. I mean, she might be reacting as well because she saw the changes. She might be reacting from mine

to think about how she should, what she should say. She, I mean, obviously, she pretended that no differences were bound. So she just, you know, helped me and we greeted each other and went home. I told myself that I was not going to diet at home because before that

I was on ketogenic. You know, just depriving myself from all the carbohydrates, right? And I went home in China. You can't avoid that. You have rice, you have noodles from in China, you eat buns, all this stuff, right? And I told myself I'm just going to live a normal person's life in China.

I did. And one month later, I was like 14 pounds down. Wow. What the heck? What the heck? I was doing nothing. I was told to do in the United States. And I was eating everything, not counting calories because there's no chance for me to do that.

There's no food nutrition labels. So I was doing that, just living normally, more or less, 14 pounds down. And I started to think about kind of reverse engineering thought process to find out what was happening. And then back in the States, the new semester started. Back in the States, the new semester

started. Back in the States, I just continued what I was doing. And in the following 11 months, I lost another 36 pounds. So that's my personal journey. Now, when I was back in the States,

people started asking me this question. I didn't really care about it that much until I went into the corporate world. And I realized it's really a big problem for a lot of professional women who care a lot about their body image, right? So I started asking the questions once and once again. I realized, hey, there's an opportunity. It can be an entrepreneurial idea. So that's when I started going into this field. Awesome, Sauce.

You know, losing weight is hard. And so a lot of people do come to America. I've heard that people from especially like Britain and stuff, they come here and they eat the same portions, but because of the high fructose corn syrup we have and everything here and the high trans fats and, you know, all these, you know, we, we, we made fatty food like really good. And like people eat the same portions I hear from other countries and they'll come here and eat the same portions and they'll gain weight because our food is just so rich with, you know, sugar and fat.

And we put fat and sugar in everything. We put fat, sugar in fat and sugar. Right. The thing is not just about the portion size or the ingredients, Chris. This is what I found. Your natural senses, talking about your appetite,

talking about your taste buds, how your body evaluates those flavors, these things get retrained. That was the biggest issue I had. I'll tell you an example. When I first came,

like the ice cream that you guys call normal was completely unacceptable. I'm not kidding you. I thought even just talking about the size. Yeah. That's one thing. I went for a small. They gave me a humongous one, right?

That's just one thing. But I'm just talking about the level of sweet that your body will actually sense in this food. It's crazy. I could not digest, and my body was not, like, taking them well. But after three months, right, because I kind of adapted, then those unacceptable, unacceptably sweet becomes just gnarly to me as well. And then I didn't realize it until years later, my parents came to the States and visited me. I wanted to treat them something really good. So I went to Olive Garden.

At that time, that was the good food to me, right? I ordered them something like sundae, like, you know, the chocolate cake. I said, this is the welcome me, right? I ordered them some dessert like sundae, like, you know, the chocolate cake. I said, this is the welcome dinner, right? I remember my dad tasted one bite of the chocolate cake. And then he devoured two bottles of water. Two bottles of water. My mom tried to go for the whatever, the other thing we ordered for her. And she could not have

half of it and she begged my help like it was too sweet for you right too sweet for us so they never stepped into

Olive Garden or any kind of like dessert store so I'm just telling you your senses get retrained but as Americans you don't feel it

because you think that's what you grew up with that's the big component of the instinct I'm talking about. The idea is that your body is not supposed to run like this. Think about a toddler. My daughter is two

years old. When we first introduced her to something really sweet, she could not take it. She tried to avoid it with a angry face. She didn't like it then a few times later she started accepting it but we don't two year old we don't have our ice cream kind of thing so sometimes just give you a taste of sweet just to see how you react to it right so one thing is that you have a natural instinct to react to react to food and respond to food in a normal way

and this is one thing one good analogy that i like to give people over and over and over is like because people they rely on some kind of measurements or counting mechanism to make sure that they're eating not overeating right i like to tell them this. Think about when was the last time when you were breathing, you had to count the seconds of your breath, your inhaling, to make sure that you're not overly inhaling oxygen. What was that? Tell me.

Last time when you're walking, you have to count the inches between your feet to make sure that your feet are not stepping on each other. I do, but I'm insane. I'm just kidding. on each other. You don't do that. I do, but I'm insane. I'm just kidding. Well,

you're extraordinary. That's why. I'm just really bored. Well, this thing about eating, breathing, walking,

you're natural. You have the built-in mechanism to just do it. That's what our autonomous nervous system is doing, right?

The thing is that when you interfere with it, when you try to comply to a bunch of rules that ignore and repress how your body is supposed to feel, sense, experience food, your experience starts shifting. Really? Wow. And so does that contribute to food addiction

and different issues? Absolutely. And food addiction is not just that. Food addiction started when you tried to get onto different diets and realized that you still cannot control yourself. And there are different layers, multi-layers of negative emotions, right?

In one package that you're experiencing guilt because you can't control yourself. Shame, we are eating in public. People judge you. And also, all the frustration just because you feel one dies after another. And because you think about calories, carbs, and

food all the time, you develop this obsession, the obsessive thoughts and behaviors toward it. Over time, you are developing food obsession. And this is crazy, Chris, I'm telling you. Every woman I speak to, they spend three hours

a day, three hours a day either thinking about food or planning their meals or researching about food in terms of nutrition, calories, and also the weight loss whatever effect. Three hours.

And that's three hours per day. Over the week, that's how many hours? Over a year. Consider what you can do, right, with that amount of time. Three hours, that's a long time. Like, I don't spend that much time deciding what I'm going to eat from day to day. I just like, I don't know, I'll eat this thing. It's late in here.

Exactly. And the thing is that people never realized it. They don't even realize until an hour ago. Wow. Yesterday, how many hours do you think? If you think back, right, how many hours in retrospect did you spend thinking about or any behaviors related to it? Wow. Other than just eating your normal meals.

Is that a sign of food addiction if you're spending that much time thinking about food? Of course. Wow. Yeah, definitely it is. I don't usually think about it. a food addiction if you're spending that much time thinking about food of course wow yeah it's definitely it is i don't i don't usually think about sometimes i have like a back thought like i'd really like a burger and i'm like no you're not you're not doing a burger and like it'll haunt me for a couple days but i'll spend a lot of hours on it but it's like really wanting an out burger and i'm like you're not getting one eat the salad and i like the salad right you know after about

two or three days i'm like okay fuck it i'm gonna get a burger you know i get it once and then then we're done for a while and yeah you know and it can be compulsive because it can be compulsive yeah it can but over time it becomes a programming it becomes a dominant programming that runs you ever since you wake up in the morning you start thinking about what should i eat oh no actually before that you start thinking about you start remembering what beauty food you ate yesterday and you start you know getting into this trance trance of emotions about food and it's compulsive because you either regret about yesterday or worry about today or tomorrow all around food is that what we're is that we're doing we're regretting what we ate yesterday when i had that in our burger and now i gotta eat that salad now

is that yeah you'll catch up the ketchup sort of mentality think about somebody who is especially cautious about what she eats or what he eats right right? So I'm just giving an example. But when I was struggling with this problem, or when my clients are struggling with these problems, when they go to restaurants, they don't focus on the out ratings in terms of do they provide delicious food? What they're really thinking about is what is the lowest calorie salad option

I can find in the restaurant? Do they even have that option? I want to make sure I'm not eating excessive fat, I'm not eating excessive sugar or any sugar. I'm not eating excessive calories. I want to make sure that I'm not feeling guilty after the meal. But the trick

is, you set all the rules for yourself. You go into the restaurant, you eat all the obey all the rules. You still come out with a lot of guilt. The reason comes from not being able to just eat like normal person. It's guilt and guilt and guilt no matter what.

A lot of people think of it's kind of an old trope that they're like, diet. Word dies in there. You're going to die. Die if you diet. Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead. Let's talk about your program so you've got a program that called lean instinct formula uh your company's called rise lean let's talk

about i mean no one you share the secret formula with us so obviously the people need to work with you for that but talk to us a little bit how you develop that and what kind of what the overview what that entails if you would please how i developed this it's actually a completely a reverse engineering process i lived in china for 19 years before i came to the states four years in the states i went back to china to work for another two years and then went back to the states again so you know i'm back and forth between two countries. Basically, two different food systems, too. Then I started thinking, you know, why, in terms of Asian people, not just Chinese.

If you look at the Japanese, if you look at the Koreans, honestly, we don't even know about calories until we have the word translated from the Western countries. And if we, for example, in Chinese, we say we pronounce calorie pronounce calorie as calorie we don't even have the word it's basically purely phonetic transformation wow friend english right same thing in korea same thing in japan so you see people eating like a lot of carbs you see you don't see people counting calories you don't see people going to the gym because most of them are really, really busy. Like Japanese work 11 hours a day. Chinese, well, the industry I was in, not shorter.

Okay. So you also have a family to raise. You don't have time for gym. Everybody's talking about average people, right? You don't count calories, you eat whatever, but still you are able to remain fit. And I'm not just talking about Asians. People look at the French, right? French eat everything in a dictionary.

Yeah, but they hate themselves. I think that's where they burn most of their calories, isn't self-loathing. I don't know about that. Maybe. That's a French joke. I think in waving white flags, surrendering to things. Anyway, that's a French joke. And I was wondering whether it's just American or people in the Western world. So I happened to have this opportunity to work in Italy for half a year. All right, not half a year, five months. And I went to study in France for three months. So I was observing how people were like there.

And those days, I was already aware of the calorie thing, right? Because people that I had we lost in weight gain journey. So I wasn't easily, I was sitting with my friend there and they're eating pizza. So I just tentatively asked them,

do you know how many calories in this one slice of pizza? So I just tentatively, because I'm just curious do you know or not because you seem to be really carefree about it. And then I

we don't think about calories. What's calories? Wow. What is calories? What life that would be? Well, if you have traveled to different countries

or worked and lived there you see people multiple examples multiple groups of people not caring about this thing, right, but still manage to maintain their fitness. You start wondering

who is right and who's wrong, who is the normal, who is the abnormal. Yeah. My living experience and work experience in different countries show me that

we don't have to be like this. So there's got to be something within your instinct. Right. So that's the starting point of the reverse engineering. It's a thought process. Start it with a thought process. Then experimentation. Because after working with all these women,

I realized that major barriers for a lot of people is that they don't know how to eat without counting. That's purely a mental thing, right? But it's also backed by the reality is because they're so misled by the bad diet industry. So they really don't know how to eat. I see people eating, right? It's true. I see people would eat fried chicken and after fried chicken.

And they say that I'll cook because I'm eating less than 1,800 calories per day. So I'm healthy. I'm eating healthy, right? That's just, you know, like this long shoot, right? So different people have different, really different understanding about what it means to eat well. And this is a big factor that contributes to their food issue, like relationship with food. One thing, you don't know how to eat. The other thing is that you were taught by the society

that if you want to maintain your fitness, you have to do all these diets and all these rules. So it's quite confusing, to be honest. So they don't know how to eat. They don't have knowledge. They also don't have the sense. They don how to eat. They don't have knowledge.

They also don't have the sense. They don't feel hunger. They don't feel satisfaction. Do you find for most people it's their self-limiting beliefs and of course that addiction to food and their cravings and stuff? Self-limiting beliefs is always one thing. And your belief and your reality,

they feel each other reciprocally, right? Your belief is feeling your belief and your reality they feel each other reciprocally right yeah your belief is feeling your belief your reality and your experience is also feeding into your belief and sometimes they inherited the belief from their surroundings from their parents they grew up seeing their mother or their aunts or i mean sometimes their dad as well struggling with the eating relationship with food so they get ideas that if i idea that if I'm not on some restrictive dieting program, I can never get my weight in control. They grow up this kind of belief. So that's a subconscious programming thing, right, over the years. And, well, naturally, your reality is going to fall into that kind of belief.

And this is what we do to help people as well. In order to really have a different relationship with food, that is based on freedom and confidence, you have to shift your belief. But you cannot tell people to shift the belief just by telling them to do it. The belief is the belief, right? It's not just like a weed. You can just plug it up.

People change belief by changing their reality, like their experience first. So this is something I like to do a lot with my clients. When they first come in, they're all nervous because after counting calories

or measuring carbs for so many years, all of a sudden, they are told to not care about it, not count anything. So they become nervous. I'm going to overeat every meal, right? That's the big fear. And I bet one week later, I'm going to gain three pounds or four pounds. They have this fear in them, which is rooted in the belief that I have to diet in order to keep fit, right?

So I tell them this, okay, not only you're not going to count anything, but also you're not going to measure your weight. You're not going to weigh in. And you're not going to weigh in for, at the beginning, I tell them you're not going to weigh in for the whole journey, which is three months. Wow. Very scary, right? Yeah. But usually this is what I do, okay? They're coachable.

They're good at making their promises of not weighing themselves. But usually after about three or four weeks, I'll ask them, how do you feel about not weighing yourself? To some people, it was super uncomfortable at the beginning, like when they press join because they tend to do it every day. But after not doing that, again, weighing themselves is also another obsession that we have to address. Because if you're still addicted to weighing yourself, you're still in this dietary mentality.

And we're going to talk about dietary mentality later. But it's a dietary mentality that is driving a dietary belief that's driving a dietary reality. So you have to get rid of that first. That's why I'm telling the girl at the beginning, just trust, right? Learn to trust. Trust me, trust your body. And then, since I told them not to weigh themselves for 10 weeks,

they all get very nervous. But in week four, week five, I asked them, how do you feel about no weighing? They said, oh, it's better now. It's not annoying me anymore, which is good because this is a good psychological milestone, right?

But then, sometimes, I would just ask them, do you want to weigh yourself now? Do you want to weigh yourself now? Do you want to know what's happening to your body? Do you want to weigh yourself now? And 10 out of 10 will tell me, yes, I'm interested in knowing. Good, just stand on the scale right now tell me report back how you've been doing oh my god 10 seconds later i remember this lady because it's very impressive she was almost crying because she couldn't believe that she lost 12 pounds

holy crap four weeks without counting anything just by embracing intuitive eating and freedom. And she told me this. The scale says I'm 12 pounds down. But when I first, before I joined, I weighed myself without wearing any clothes. I was naked on the scale. But now it's wintertime, and my clothes probably weigh two pounds. So I probably have lost 40 pounds. Wow. This is essential for them to see in their own eyes now you now you can see what i'm

what i meant by not to change your belief you have to change your reality first your your experience first now i would believe once you experience that makes all the difference so you do several things with people you i guess coach them on a one-on-one basis do you do any group coaching i know you have the mastermind. We should probably mention on the website. I mainly do group coaching. It's actually mainly group coaching. If you go to...

Okay. Yeah. Okay. So you do mainly group coaching and then you've got the free masterclass. People can go to your website and check out to get to know you better. What are the services?

Does that cover the gambit of all the services you have? If you go to my masterclass, right? It's a free masterclass where I show you the five most important keys that you will need to embrace when trying to restore your instinct so that your body can lose the weight for you, right? So if you're interested in philosophy philosophy if you think that makes sense you can book a call with me through the link

you can find that on my website as well in one one what is the link for one one calls booking one one call and also you can just go to the link

that I let you know after the end at the end of the webinar and you can book a call on there and we'll see if we're good with each other

because you know there are some housekeeping items. Before I work with you, I want to make sure that psychologically you're ready to embrace freedom. Definitely. Do you find it's hard for people to reach that point? They're not quite committed to crossing over to...

It's scary. It is scary. It's not about losing weight. Traditionally, it's sort of losing weight as I just keep counting whatever I'm told to count, right? There is a system I can follow.

But basically, that counting system, the mechanism, is a crush. But what I'm teaching you here is how to stand on your own feet. Does, you have something

that I noticed on your website that was kind of interesting. You call it the Asian-inspired T-cert technique? It's a little bonus I have for my audience here. People always struggle with sugar. Since that, you know, you have one chocolate and you can't stop yourself.

One will lead to another, another, another. The whole bag is gone, right? Yeah. right one will lead to another another another the whole bag is gone right yeah so what we do is that it's actually one of the thousand years of tradition from asia east asia mainly so what you do is like what we do in asian countries is that we eat a lot of sweets too right but we usually have this traditional pairing it with some natural loose leaf teas. So you have natural herbal tea. Okay. And usually they are either green tea or black tea.

So after you take one bite of the cookie, let's say, you take one sip of the green tea. And just wait a minute, wait a second, just let the green tea saturate and cancel out the sweetness in your mouth. And immediately you realize that you don't have the urge to have the next one. Wow. That's pretty smart. Scientific study nowadays backing it up. I think a few years ago, I just saw this study on the website of National Institute of Health where it's talking about how the bitterness can actually cancel out

and change your brain's response to sugar. And that's what it is, you know, in tea. Like there is bitterness, slight bitterness. So that cancels out your cravings for the sweet, almost immediately. When we just like to do it because it feels comfortable right it feels balanced but feeling and sensation of balance actually comes from something deeper really

yeah that's well you don't want to be just overly saturated with the the feeling of sweetness right you want something to to pair with it to balance it out well it makes sense it's a natural body's reaction to not get addicted to sweetness and stuff you know i mean the we we have a you know people get hooked on sweetness my mom is pretty funny she does the thing with she's kind of a chocolate she loves chocolate she does the thing where she'll put like sweets in her mouth and then spit them out because she realizes that she she wants it for the taste but you don't want it in your body so she like she'll like taste it and spit it out and it's always kind of like mom what are you doing but it's kind of actually you know

i don't know that's her version of the strategy but i like the bit i like the tea thing a little bit flavor not the not the calories exactly exactly i bit better. Just getting the flavor, not the calories. Exactly. Exactly. I guess you do that with the burgers. It's kind of gross, though. You shouldn't do it in public, probably. Right.

Spit it back out. Because that was the thing I did learn when I lost weight. I realized that I was eating certain foods and stuff for the taste. There's a lot of foods in American life, especially fast foods, they design in labs to addict this. It's almost like an opioid addiction with the way they design these foods. And they design them so they have that perfect thing that will set off our dopamine reaction. Our body's going, yeah, that's really good. I can't more.

We have multiple science studies nowadays that shows you that stuff like sugar, it does have addictive nature. It triggers your brain. I was just reading one a few days ago talking about how sugar actually triggers and prompts your brain's reaction in terms of its neurotransmitters. In a very similar way, it does, the cocci does. Oh, wow. Yes, even on a similar level. But look, yes, food being addictive is one element of it, right? It's one component of the whole food addiction and the weight loss pattern thing.

But how about you as a person? You actually have the independence from this kind of craving. But instead of just wanting to have that chocolate, you just don't feel the natural urge of wanting it. So you're probably going to be handing you something. You can just elegantly say, no, thanks. I don't feel like it. That's awesome. I mean, that's the way to be.

I mean, we're supposed to have control over ourselves. And the fact that we can get addicted to stuff is just crazy. Anything more you want to touch on about what you do and how you help clients? I want to touch on something that's very important to whoever trying to find freedom from this weight pattern and also the eating pattern. No matter what kind of journey you choose to go for, because there are so many different types of weight loss or eating kind of coaching products out there, right? So no matter what you choose,

you have to have one clarity as to what is going to be the end goal out of it. Because here's the thing, there are many two categories here, no matter how many gazillions of brands you can find. One is the category which creates, I call it creating

dieters. So basically it gives you all the rules, dieting rules. Most of them are restrictive rules as well. And yes, you may see some temporary weight loss results, but over time, what it does is really training your brain, your belief, your relationship towards the direction of the dietary.

Here's the thing that most people do not know. A dieter and somebody who is holistically healthy and holistically lean and free, they are two different species. How differently they think, how differently they eat, and how differently their body functions, and how differently they experience life.

And you cannot walk onto one path hoping to get to the other end goal. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. So you have to bear this in mind. If you want to be a holistic, linear, healthy person, you've got to find a path that leads you there.

Right. So pay attention. Give yourself a moment to think about what exactly you want. And before you go into a commit to a program or commit to a solution, think about where it you want. And before you go into a commit to a program or commit to a solution, think about where it is leading. That's the key message here.

Definitely, definitely. And reaching the end goals is super important in being able to achieve what you want to take and do. So as we go out, what message, how can people reach out to you, work with you, get to know you better, see if they can work with you on coaching and stuff? How can they do that?

There's plenty of information you can find on my website, which is www.riselian.com. And on the website, you're going to see the details of the LinkedIn approach, my client's experience. You can also get this free link, this link to my free masterclass to learn details about the approach. And if you think this is for you, you can get onto the phone with me and I'll have a conversation with you to do an assessment

into what is your fastest and best route to get to your goal. There you go. There you go. Well, this sounds pretty interesting. I mean, it's eating better, breaking your relationships, breaking your mental habits and relationships you have with food. You're not supposed to have a relationship with food, in my mind.

It's something that gives you sustenance and nutrition. You've brought up a good point, actually. You've brought up a good point. Because nowadays, a lot of people like to say I want to gain mindful eating and this is what I'm telling them all the time you don't need mindful eating you need mindless eating but you don't count your breath when you're breathing that's the kind of

relationship you should have with food that's true through mindless eating your past mindless eating is leading you to a lot of weight problems but you want to learn the kind of mindless eating that is leading you towards health and wellness. Most definitely. Most definitely.

So thank you very much, Leslie, for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. We learned a lot today. Thank you very much, Chris. It's a wonderful time. There you go. And thanks to Anna for tuning in. Be sure to check out Leslie's program.

Go to her website. Also check us out as well. We have some websites that go to