The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Mary: Intimate Witness to God’s Love Incarnate by Louis McCall

Episode Date: August 13, 2025

Mary: Intimate Witness to God's Love Incarnate by Louis McCall Louismccallinternational.com https://www.amazon.com/Mary-Intimate-Witness-Gods-Incarnate/dp/B0DVJ5SZ86 Mary is about the mother of Jesus and the arc of her development from a peasant teenager to an icon in the church, to a bold witness of the Gospel who journeys from Jerusalem to Samaria, to the mostly Gentile church in Antioch of Syria, and finally to Ephesus, a major metropolitan city of Asia Minor. This book tells the story of Mary in the style of a memoir while still being faithful to the canon of scripture in the hopes that women who seek to have their voices heard in a male-dominated society will find inspiration and strength. Also, that all readers will gain a new appreciation for the challenges and fears of Mary, her own need for a savior, and her development into an eyewitness for God's love through His Son Jesus Christ. Mary shows how one woman can start out simply and yet become a giant of faith and a model of womanhood.

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Go to goodreads.com, Fortress, Chris Foss, LinkedIn.com. Fortress, Chris Foss. Chris Foss won the TikTokity and all those crazy places in the internet. Today, we're an amazing young man on the show with us today. Louis McCall joins us. He's a multi-book author. And his latest work came out January 23rd, 2025 called Mary, intimate witness to God's Love Incarnate. We're going to get into it with him, all the details, etc., etc. And some of the things under his book and maybe things that you might like that improve your life. Dr. Lewis McCall has a PhD from Northwestern University intended National War College.

He was an associate professor or assistant professor in the political I'm just flubbing everything today, in the Department of Political Science at the Ohio State University before embarking on a 36th career year in the U.S. Department of State as a Foreign Service Officer

and then his assistant inspector general. It was a career that had him live in or work in 60 different countries, in addition to other countries visited for pleasure. He's now retired from government service and is the author of Christian books and simultaneously serves in late capacity in a major Protestant church in Catholic Paris

in Washington, D.C. Welcome to the show. Lewis, how are you? I'm fine, Chris. I'm fine as well. So give us dot-coms. Where can people find out more about you on the interwebs? There's my website, which is

Lewis McCall International.com. and my online bookstore, which is books.by, forward slash Lewis dash McCall-dash international. There you go. So give us a 30,000 overview. What's inside your new book? This book is unique because it's about a very important figure, both in religion and history. But it looks at her in a very different way than has been portrayed. before. And can't tell us more? There are some that, in the first place, there aren't too many books actually written about Mary.

It's strange, but that's the way it is. I like doing biblical historical characters as fiction, which means that I'm using a lot of my own literary license to fill in the blanks between the verses. because actually there's only about three places in the Bible where Mary speaks. And that was when she first went to her cousin when she was pregnant. And she spoke something that people call the Magnificat. It was actually prophetic. Then there was the time that they lost their son, Jesus, when he was 12 years old. And they found him in the temple and rebuked him.

him, you know, for causing them to worry. And he soldiered up and went back with them to Nazareth. Then there was the time that Jesus began his ministry at 30 years old and was up in the Galilean region and attended a wedding at Cana. And she basically provoked him to perform a miracle, and that was the beginning of his miracles. And she did so by telling the stewards at the wedding, look, whatever he says, do it. And so you, so you basically historical fiction is how the book is framed? Is that correct? That's correct. It is based on the Bible, but there's, there's a lot that the Bible doesn't say.

So I'm filling that in with my literary license. Now, you've written how many books I see quite, quite a few books here on Amazon for a mute. I've written, I've published six religious books, and I have another, which is done, and it will be out before the end of the year, a seventh one. Now, for those who would be interesting in your work, are they all historical fiction, or do they fall into different formats? The first book that I did was actually what's known in Christian circles as a devotional, but it's a little bit about my life as well.

It was one that I did not feel free to write until I finally left government service because in our government, they like to vet what you do and change what's in it if they don't like it. Yeah. So you took in, what prompted you to want to write the book about Mary? You've written about several other people, but what drew you to it? What was your thing that went? I think I got a book on this. She is unique, and I've had a lot of, I think, unique people in my life that were women. And I wanted to honor her.

In the beginning of the book, I talk a little bit about my family and the women that were important to me. And women that I've met along the way, including now St. Mother Teresa. In fact, I include a picture in the book. Oh, really? of me with Mother Teresa in my office in Calcutta, India when I was the vice-consul there. I helped her with a number of things. And she was an amazing character. She was honored by the Indian government.

They gave her a diplomatic passport. He could fly anywhere without charge on Air India. And people that weren't even. even Christian would come and work with her because in India, they considered mother to be what they call a great soul. And that in their terms, you draw what they call Darshan from being in her presence. And they just wanted to do things with her. Darshan, that's kind of, it's a new term I've learned today.

Yes, well, that's a Hindi word. Is there a specific meaning behind it? As I said, it means that you are drawing basically from that person's essence. Ah, okay. Yeah. When you're around good people, you catch their vibrations. I think I know how that works. I've hung out with some good people before.

They don't like to hang out with me, though, because I'm just a bad person. I smell bad, too. But that's another story. I mean, I shower once a week. I don't see what the big deal is. Anyway. They criticize Jesus for the people he has. hung out with. Yeah. I don't think he showered much either. They didn't have showers back then.

They just, you just went down to the lake and, I don't know, wash your feet or something. But, you know, he was able to shower himself with turning water into wine. So he had that going for him. That's a trick I keep trying to parties and never go as well. I don't know what that means. I just made it up. I can see myself. I'm just trying to figure that joke out as soon as they said it. So you talk about Mary, and do you basically maybe start at the beginning of her life, or do you start at a certain time point? In her case, I started at the beginning of her life, which is a very humble beginning. She's just a peasant girl in a very small town that people would say, can any good thing come out of that place out of Nazareth? There's a great

band that came out of there. From the 70s, for you Gen Ziers. But that's where we start. And we go through the arc of her development because she's a woman in what is a man's world.

And women are, they're just not really counted. For example, when Jesus fed the multitudes of people, people. They only counted the men. Oh, really? That's right.

Women and children were there, but they didn't count. Maybe they weren't of drinking age or something. No, no. That was the way women were thought of. Ah. And so you tell the story of her life, her influences. Do you take it all the way to her passing? Or is there a time when it ends?

Yes. It ends at that point. So, yes. At the point that she passes away from old age? Yes. Okay. I take it all over there. Yes.

And actually, after Jesus is crucified, you don't hear very much about Mary anymore. Yeah. What's up about that? You don't hear her name called. She's not stepping forth to speak. Nothing. It's like she's an invisible person. So I'm bringing her to life and giving her voice.

well there you go she finally gets to say why did they leave Mary out I mean mother's love is probably the most important was Mary at the crucifixion it's been a long time I read that Bible yes yes she was she was there with several women and the Apostle John

yeah she probably pretty upset about her own sons were not there and the disciples apart from John had fled for their lives because they thought they might be crucified too. Yeah. Boy, they don't back up a dude very well, do they?

No, they didn't. As a matter of fact, there was a prophetic scripture that said that strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter. And this is what people use to explain what happened in that time. Yeah.

Boy, you find out I think that's an all biblical tomb, actually, you're saying or quote, you find out who your friends are when you get crucified. I'm just kidding, too. We're just doing jokes folks so we do some entertainment on the show uh but yeah you know it's kind of true if you want to find out your friends are set yourself on fire and and see how that goes but uh you know i mean

no one likes to be crucified last time i checked it's kind of it's kind of a low on the on people's uh uh what's that bucket list it's low on the bucket list thing you know and and i imagine i mean the whole thing that prompted this sort of joke segue was you know i mean she marries a mother she's there to her son's crucifixion watching and be killed and destroyed slowly and painfully um you know i mean you think that you know they would include something that she was you know pretty upset about the whole thing and had some things say you know yes but she did not get that opportunity until much later in life and and that is what i bring out now was that opportunity later in the bible itself or it's in your book it's in my book as i said you

don't hear much about her afterwards. She's not given a platform that she's certainly earned, nothing. Her son, one of her sons, James, he became a leader in the church, the early church in Jerusalem, but she was not. She was there, but she was on the sideline. They wouldn't talk about her, but she wouldn't be able to talk herself to present her own side of things. It's, It's like you're a pot of plant. Yeah. She's like over there going, hey, you guys are talking about me. I'm right here, hey?

What the hell? I'm sure she felt that way. Yeah. You don't want to be a good book about Mary? It's one of those books like, it's like one of those movies from Hollywood. In a world gone mad, Mary seeks revenge. And she goes on like this revenge thing, which just starts murdering Romans for killing her son. Actually, she's very meat.

at the same time she's she's strong we can we can we can we can boost this up we can make Mary like a Mary turns into like you know the who's that chick from Arnold Schwarzenegger on all the muscles

and shit and she just goes on a rampage where she just starts it's kind of like the inglorious bastards they just start killing everybody because you know but I don't know maybe that's a different book Mary gets revenge she did face the possibility of being martyred herself yeah particularly toward the end of the book really well in the first place they fled jerusalem a persecution broke out one of the disciples was beheaded executed by the king and he thought hey that went over well uh i'll do some more and he got peter uh but an angel uh

released him. But in Mary's case, she had to be concerned that they would come after her and her children. That's the way things were done then. In fact, the Bible makes it clear that after Jesus had raised Lazarus from the dead, and he had been dead for four days, that the religious leaders in Jerusalem decided that they needed to kill. both Jesus and Lazarus because they didn't want a witness to the great miracle that had been done. Oh, wow.

Yes, she probably was afraid that they would come after her and her adult children to wipe them out and stop this movement that started after Jesus was crucified, rose, and ascended. And it was called at that time, not the church, but the way. And that's when Mary grabbed a machine gun like Scarface The movie Scarface and says Say it look to my little friends Romans No, I'm just kidding, that's a different book

No, this is interesting, you know I have often wondered, you know, I read the Bible when I was young I often wondered, you know, what about Mary and some of the other people They just kind of disappear, right? There's not like a sort of accounting for them or, you know, you're like, hey, man, you built up that character and it was like really cool. Like, God slept with her. And then she had the baby Jesus, this guy's doing all these miracles.

Like, maybe we should know more about her, eh? And, you know, it's kind of funny how that whole thing kind of frames in the Bible. Well, the pagan idea from the Romans and the Greeks was that the gods, because they were plural, would come down. and they would impregnate human women. But that is not the case here. Those are aliens that do that. No, I'm just kidding. Sure.

What the Bible says, and this was an angel, an archangel that had visited her and what's called the enunciation, was that the Holy Spirit would overshadow her, and that holy thing would be born in her. Oh, there you go. So it's interesting. So when did you start writing books? and assembling the collection that you have now. When did you start writing and when did you feel like you had it down?

Like you're like, I think I want to do this and I have a knack for it. Well, I started writing Christian books after I retired from the State Department after 36 years there. And I have a grape in some respects. That's Mark Batterson. He has written 25 books that have been published. published by traditional publishers, and he's been on the New York Times, bestseller lists a number of times. And he's very generous with his advice and his own journey in writing, and I appreciate that.

And so you got into writing, and what was your first book? What was the name of that? The first book was, according to your word, Lord, I pray. And as I said, it was not a biographical type thing. It was actually a devotional. It was intended to teach people a more effective way to pray. And as a matter of fact, I went with my wife to Vatican City, and we were in a special gathering.

And Pope Francis at the time came by because my wife yelled out to him, and he came over. But he took her, put one hand on her head, and one arm around her, and he prayed for her. So she about being a Catholic, she about fainted. But I had a copy of that book with me, and I speak Italian because I was Counsel General in Florence, Italy, for a couple of years. And so I asked him if he would, in Italian, if he would bless my book on prayer, which he

did, and then I presented it to him. And so that was a bit of a high point for me with that. first. Yeah, meeting the Pope is a Catholic. That's money right there. I think there's a lot of Catholics that would love to, you know, have that. Yes, I'm not a Catholic, though. Oh, I thought you were from, oh, I think you worked with some Catholics, I think in your bios, whatever. Yeah, well, I work with Catholics now. Okay. In fact, I canter at my wife's parish. But I am also very active in my own Protestant church. Okay. All right. So you're a Protestant who hates Catholics. No, I'm just. Just kidding. I'm teasing, I'm teasing. He doesn't. He's married to a Catholic. Well, just a few days ago, I had a Catholic priest that was determined to convert me to be a Catholic on the spot. Did you arm wrestle him for it or flip a coin? No, I decided that I was not going to continue with the debate. Ah. Well, you know, sometimes some people have their own things, whatever.

But I would have flipped a coin or said, I don't know, see who can run the 30-yard dash fastest and, you know, maybe something like that. I don't know. So as we go out, final thoughts to give people on why they should pick up your books. Do you want to profile any touch on any other books? I know you've got one on Joshua and a few other people from the Bible? Well, there's one that has become quite popular, and it's called He Chose the Glory, the Life and Life and Life. legacy of Obed Edom. He's an obscure

Obed Edom. He's an obscure character. But there's a lot written about him if you know where to find it and pull it. And his clan goes through the history of Israel. And the important thing about him was

the unique role that he had with the Golden Ark of the covenant. This is not Indiana Jones, but he had possession of it. And King David got it from him, brought it to Jerusalem. It was the first time in the history of Israel that that ark had been brought to Jerusalem. And David started something new there based on what he learned in visiting with Obed Edom.

And the arc of the covenant is gone. Okay. Indiana Jones did not find it. And when Jesus was doing his ministry, there was no ark of the covenant. inside that temple. That temple was destroyed in 70 AD by Titus, who was the son of a Caesar and who later became a Caesar himself. And they just took it apart stone by stone because there was so much gold in there and melted through the walls when they torched it. Wow. But the ark was already gone. That arc left during the time of the prophet Jeremiah. And there was a

prophecy that it would be forgotten and that another one would not be made. And I wrote a book about that, which is one of my other books. And so what fascinates you with stories from the Bible? They're true. And yet, you know, there's such a fascination today with Superman and people with strange powers and stuff. But these guys were the real deal, and they defied physical science with miracles that they did, and they were human. What Mary's son James said about the prophet Elijah, because James wrote one of the books in the Bible called James. He was the half-brother of Jesus and a son of Mary.

He talked about Elijah, and he said he was a man just like us. and that's what Mary is. She's an ordinary person just like us, but she was full of grace that God gave her for this special role that she had. So as we go out, give people your final thoughts on how to order your books, how to find out more about you,

your dot-coms, etc., etc. They're available on Amazon and Barnes & Noble and on my personal online bookstore, but they can also go to my website and enter that bookstore from there, Louis Macaul International.com. There you go. Well, it's been wonderful to have you on and very insightful and adding nuance and, you know, filling out these stories that are kind of missing in the Bible, eh? It seems, you know, it's all about that Jesus and God people, and, you know,

there's lots of cool other characters in there. John, who Jesus put Mary into his care while he was on the cross, John said if the world itself could not contain all of the books that could be written about what Jesus did. Okay. It's a lot of books. Well, I think a lot of been written, too. We've found him on the show. Yes, but not about Mary. Not about Mary.

So now we got Mary covered. That's one other thing I should ask you. What's coming down the pipe free in the future? Any future books you're working on? As I said, I have one that will come out this year. That'll be my seventh one. And it's about the life of David, in David. And I have one that I will immediately start working on after that.

I've already, I already know what it is and have the outline. I'll keep on doing that as long as the Lord inspires me to do it. And people want to read it. There you go. Well, it's important people for read, important people for learning these things, all that sort of good stuff. Thank you very much, Lewis, for coming the show. We really appreciate it. Thanks, Chris. Thank you. And thanks for honest for tuning in.

Order up Lewis's books, wherever fine books are sold. His latest, Mary, intimate witness to God's Love, Incarnate, out January 23rd, 2025. Thanks for us for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you guys next time.